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Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

328 points by curmudgeon22 6y ago

topkeks 6y ago
Seems to be gaining popularity all around the world. https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1347699781326438404 https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1347699781326438404
whycombagator 6y ago
> India is WhatsApp's biggest market with over 400 million users > Signal saw 2,200 installs on India's app stores on Wednesday up 38% from 1,600 installs in the week ended December 30, according to mobile intelligence firm Sensor Tower. Signal saw about 51,000 installs in December, up 11% from 46,000 in November. Its going to take a while to catch up I think, but: > Harada declined to provide numbers, citing company policy, saying the Sensor Tower data was “directionally correct, but generally the numbers are off by a few magnitudes.”
- imheretolearn 6y ago
  It's not even the equivalent of a drop in the ocean. I generally avoid indiatimes.com as it is not a reputable source of information. I am truly surprised to see it pop up on HN
- londons_explore 6y ago
  Even so, Christmas/New year is going to lead to arbitrary peaks and troughs in the data because people will be setting up new phones, starting new jobs/university courses (for which they need extra apps) etc. The only fair way to look at it is on a percentage basis (ie. of all chat apps installed last week, what percentage was whatsapp, and what percentage was signal?) I would be shocked if Signal has even 1% of installations in india.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    There's also a difference on a brand new user installing the app compared to an existing user downloading on their new device that Santa bought them.
codeknight11 6y ago
Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visioned when it comes to tech products. Every response below is something on the lines of "I don't use stories" or "None or my contacts use stories". I don't use stories either. And most millenials don't use it unless they are extroverts. But we make a small percentage of their audience. Take a look at boomer WhatsApp in India. Every single boomer shares stories with images of Gods or daily morning blessings, where they went, what they cooked etc. The network effects are too strong. Nobody wants to miss out on the stories of their grandchildren's birthday or their nephew's marriage. Even I wish that there was an en-masse migration from WhatsApp to Signal. But that's just a HackerNews pipe dream. Not happening.
- shortandsweet 6y ago
  Why does signal need to compete?
  - robjan 6y ago
    It doesn't need to compete but without competing it's even less likely to cause a mass exodus from WhatsApp.
- josh2600 6y ago
  Who would ever use dropbox if you can use FTP on Linux? It's obvious that Signal is going to release stories. It will just be in a privacy protecting manner when they're ready.
  - dirtnugget 6y ago
    I really hope they don’t
- eunos 6y ago
mmsimanga 6y ago
In the part of Africa I am from, the challenge is cellular network providers sell data bundles specifically for WhatsApp. It is so much cheaper to buy a social media data bundle than generic data to use for browsing the web. As a result Telegram and Signal cannot compete. WhatsApp is literally the internet.
- cercatrova 6y ago
  Net neutrality is a very needed thing there it seems, as everywhere.
  - nichos 6y ago
    You mean competition.
- drno123 6y ago
  What incentive do network providers have to do that?
  - 1_player 6y ago
    The fact that people in 3rd world countries are more likely to get a phone plan that includes the most used app to keep in touch with friends and family. Sadly, when you're poor you couldn't care less about net neutrality if it means saving some money.
  - abdullahkhalids 6y ago
    Facebook/Google pay them.
  - mmsimanga 6y ago
    I don't know. Here is a page[0] that will give you and idea of the pricing. Last column in USD. [0]https://www.econet.co.zw/services/bundles/data https://www.econet.co.zw/services/bundles/data
qart 6y ago
I have started pushing my friends towards Signal. Let's hope the Indian govt. does not create legal hindrances to Signal, as it is wont to do. Authoritarian tendencies are pretty damn strong out here.
- higerordermap 6y ago
  I think they are gonna do that, our government is tending to become authoritarian, it's too early to tell if that's good or bad overall. The reason they have not hindered whatsapp is that unsubstantiated whatsapp forwards actually helped them politically. I see India becoming more and more similar to Russia, especially since Adityanath is likely next PM candidate, and since opposition is not strong enough, being stuck at 90s with minority appeasement tactics and almost centered on single family, the majority of people will think internet censorship is good for them. Edit: I am not a "indian liberal" or right winger either, just a neutral look about the state of affairs.
  - qart 6y ago
    Forget "tending to become authoritarian". It has always been authoritarian. Every aspect of the government, not just one political party here or there. That includes the police and the judiciary. Every aspect of the Indian govt. abuses power. Rajkot's police chief said the kids were not studying for the upcoming exam, and they were playing PUBG. (Edit) So he banned the game for the entire city and arrested people for playing it. Another ex-politician was dragged through a court case for making fun of a judge in a photo. Every now and then, the entire internet is cut off in many parts of India for some silly excuse or another.
- suyash 6y ago
  Me too, doing the same
hiyer 6y ago
Telegram is quite popular in India too - especially for group communication since it has a much higher membership limit. A lot of the Whatsapp groups I was part of have now moved there.
- andy1729 6y ago
  Telegram is more popular for free movies, tv series download that otherwise can only be accessed by having a subscription plan on platforms like Netflix, amazon prime etc
  - stiltzkin 6y ago
    I've seen group and channels sharing x-rated pictures and videos.
phreack 6y ago
In South America practically no one has even heard of Signal. The only known alternative to Whatsapp, which dominates society at all levels, is Telegram. I'm seeing a very minor move to it and it's based on the assumption that it's more secure than Whatsapp. Just did an experiment and downloaded Signal, and while I expected a low list of adopters, out of my 1k+ contact list, literally only one person was on the app. I feel most startups sleep hard on the massive market they're missing by skipping on SA so much.
- 1_player 6y ago
  No one has ever heard of Signal anywhere, that's the point. It's not like it's very common elsewhere either. No one had ever heard of WhatsApp once. But now billions of people use it, why? I mentioned the new WhatsApp TOS to my tech and non-tech friends and I've managed to move all of those I've talked about it, or at least have them install it and get it set up. I still have to find a convincing argument for the least tech oriented people I know, but moving a billion people over to another app is done like that, one friend at a time.
  - graeme 6y ago
    What are the issues with the new TOS? I heard merging data with facebook but couldn’t find a clear summary in the other HN threads. I don’t really use whatsapp now but I have a lot of convo history there. And I also use FB messenger/instagram dm’s, but not for important chats. In that context, is keeping whatsapp for the old message history basically fine? I wouldn’t use it for a new important chat going forward.
djhworld 6y ago
Some of my friend groups have moved to Signal, it's ok in a "good enough" sort of way but it's not a perfect replacement. I'll have a hard time persuading family groups to move though, WhatsApp and Facebook are cultural touchstones for them they won't see any point in moving
- tchaffee 6y ago
  You only need to persuade one popular person in the group and have them suggest it and everyone will follow. Although I don't know of a viable alternative to Facebook, going from WhatsApp to Telegram or Signal, like you said, is "good enough".
2Gkashmiri 6y ago
matrix should be used in india because the ruling party is cracking down on dissent hard. they can do that easily with phone numbers which has the same problem with signal. matrix can be used without any email/phone which makes it perfect
jakub_g 6y ago
Tweet from Signal themselves with app store screenshots: https://mobile.twitter.com/signalapp/status/1347693761044701186 https://mobile.twitter.com/signalapp/status/1347693761044701... Also in France in Play Store, Signal is #1 now. In Trending, Signal is #1 and Telegram #3. Check for your country on: https://play.google.com/store/apps/top https://play.google.com/store/apps/top
mrkramer 6y ago
Like codeknight11 said "most people don't care about privacy". Only innovation can displace WhatsApp not privacy policy. Edit: Innovation can be as well business model that does not involve invading user privacy or in other words privacy friendly business model that does not rely on advertising.
beagle3 6y ago
WhatsApp won't easily be dethroned. Personally, I've sandboxed it by buying an el-cheapo Android and exclusively running it on that phone (using it mostly through WhatsApp web). It's too late for the world now, though, 99.99% of people will give in to the FB threat, FB will be free to use that data - which takes 3-5 years to become stale. So as far as FB is concerned, they have received everything they need, and have that many years to manage the next fight for dominance. But perhaps if Apple somehow introduces a "contacts" sandbox (e.g., have a contact chooser like the file chooser) and google is forced to follow suite, there won't be another one like it.
samgranieri 6y ago
Funny thing, I’ve actually never used WhatsApp after I installed it. I’m happy to see signal get more users worldwide, it’s a testament to the hard work Moxie and crew have done over the years.

328 points by curmudgeon22 6y ago

Seems to be gaining popularity all around the world. https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1347699781326438404 https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1347699781326438404

whycombagator 6y ago

> India is WhatsApp's biggest market with over 400 million users > Signal saw 2,200 installs on India's app stores on Wednesday up 38% from 1,600 installs in the week ended December 30, according to mobile intelligence firm Sensor Tower. Signal saw about 51,000 installs in December, up 11% from 46,000 in November. Its going to take a while to catch up I think, but: > Harada declined to provide numbers, citing company policy, saying the Sensor Tower data was “directionally correct, but generally the numbers are off by a few magnitudes.”

imheretolearn 6y ago
It's not even the equivalent of a drop in the ocean. I generally avoid indiatimes.com as it is not a reputable source of information. I am truly surprised to see it pop up on HN
londons_explore 6y ago
Even so, Christmas/New year is going to lead to arbitrary peaks and troughs in the data because people will be setting up new phones, starting new jobs/university courses (for which they need extra apps) etc. The only fair way to look at it is on a percentage basis (ie. of all chat apps installed last week, what percentage was whatsapp, and what percentage was signal?) I would be shocked if Signal has even 1% of installations in india.
- dylan604 6y ago
  There's also a difference on a brand new user installing the app compared to an existing user downloading on their new device that Santa bought them.

codeknight11 6y ago

Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visioned when it comes to tech products. Every response below is something on the lines of "I don't use stories" or "None or my contacts use stories". I don't use stories either. And most millenials don't use it unless they are extroverts. But we make a small percentage of their audience. Take a look at boomer WhatsApp in India. Every single boomer shares stories with images of Gods or daily morning blessings, where they went, what they cooked etc. The network effects are too strong. Nobody wants to miss out on the stories of their grandchildren's birthday or their nephew's marriage. Even I wish that there was an en-masse migration from WhatsApp to Signal. But that's just a HackerNews pipe dream. Not happening.

shortandsweet 6y ago
Why does signal need to compete?
- robjan 6y ago
  It doesn't need to compete but without competing it's even less likely to cause a mass exodus from WhatsApp.
josh2600 6y ago
Who would ever use dropbox if you can use FTP on Linux? It's obvious that Signal is going to release stories. It will just be in a privacy protecting manner when they're ready.
- dirtnugget 6y ago
  I really hope they don’t
eunos 6y ago

mmsimanga 6y ago

In the part of Africa I am from, the challenge is cellular network providers sell data bundles specifically for WhatsApp. It is so much cheaper to buy a social media data bundle than generic data to use for browsing the web. As a result Telegram and Signal cannot compete. WhatsApp is literally the internet.

cercatrova 6y ago
Net neutrality is a very needed thing there it seems, as everywhere.
- nichos 6y ago
  You mean competition.
drno123 6y ago
What incentive do network providers have to do that?
- 1_player 6y ago
  The fact that people in 3rd world countries are more likely to get a phone plan that includes the most used app to keep in touch with friends and family. Sadly, when you're poor you couldn't care less about net neutrality if it means saving some money.
- abdullahkhalids 6y ago
  Facebook/Google pay them.
- mmsimanga 6y ago
  I don't know. Here is a page[0] that will give you and idea of the pricing. Last column in USD. [0]https://www.econet.co.zw/services/bundles/data https://www.econet.co.zw/services/bundles/data

qart 6y ago

I have started pushing my friends towards Signal. Let's hope the Indian govt. does not create legal hindrances to Signal, as it is wont to do. Authoritarian tendencies are pretty damn strong out here.

higerordermap 6y ago
I think they are gonna do that, our government is tending to become authoritarian, it's too early to tell if that's good or bad overall. The reason they have not hindered whatsapp is that unsubstantiated whatsapp forwards actually helped them politically. I see India becoming more and more similar to Russia, especially since Adityanath is likely next PM candidate, and since opposition is not strong enough, being stuck at 90s with minority appeasement tactics and almost centered on single family, the majority of people will think internet censorship is good for them. Edit: I am not a "indian liberal" or right winger either, just a neutral look about the state of affairs.
- qart 6y ago
  Forget "tending to become authoritarian". It has always been authoritarian. Every aspect of the government, not just one political party here or there. That includes the police and the judiciary. Every aspect of the Indian govt. abuses power. Rajkot's police chief said the kids were not studying for the upcoming exam, and they were playing PUBG. (Edit) So he banned the game for the entire city and arrested people for playing it. Another ex-politician was dragged through a court case for making fun of a judge in a photo. Every now and then, the entire internet is cut off in many parts of India for some silly excuse or another.
suyash 6y ago
Me too, doing the same

hiyer 6y ago

Telegram is quite popular in India too - especially for group communication since it has a much higher membership limit. A lot of the Whatsapp groups I was part of have now moved there.

andy1729 6y ago
Telegram is more popular for free movies, tv series download that otherwise can only be accessed by having a subscription plan on platforms like Netflix, amazon prime etc
- stiltzkin 6y ago
  I've seen group and channels sharing x-rated pictures and videos.

phreack 6y ago

In South America practically no one has even heard of Signal. The only known alternative to Whatsapp, which dominates society at all levels, is Telegram. I'm seeing a very minor move to it and it's based on the assumption that it's more secure than Whatsapp. Just did an experiment and downloaded Signal, and while I expected a low list of adopters, out of my 1k+ contact list, literally only one person was on the app. I feel most startups sleep hard on the massive market they're missing by skipping on SA so much.

1_player 6y ago
No one has ever heard of Signal anywhere, that's the point. It's not like it's very common elsewhere either. No one had ever heard of WhatsApp once. But now billions of people use it, why? I mentioned the new WhatsApp TOS to my tech and non-tech friends and I've managed to move all of those I've talked about it, or at least have them install it and get it set up. I still have to find a convincing argument for the least tech oriented people I know, but moving a billion people over to another app is done like that, one friend at a time.
- graeme 6y ago
  What are the issues with the new TOS? I heard merging data with facebook but couldn’t find a clear summary in the other HN threads. I don’t really use whatsapp now but I have a lot of convo history there. And I also use FB messenger/instagram dm’s, but not for important chats. In that context, is keeping whatsapp for the old message history basically fine? I wouldn’t use it for a new important chat going forward.

djhworld 6y ago

Some of my friend groups have moved to Signal, it's ok in a "good enough" sort of way but it's not a perfect replacement. I'll have a hard time persuading family groups to move though, WhatsApp and Facebook are cultural touchstones for them they won't see any point in moving

tchaffee 6y ago
You only need to persuade one popular person in the group and have them suggest it and everyone will follow. Although I don't know of a viable alternative to Facebook, going from WhatsApp to Telegram or Signal, like you said, is "good enough".

2Gkashmiri 6y ago

matrix should be used in india because the ruling party is cracking down on dissent hard. they can do that easily with phone numbers which has the same problem with signal. matrix can be used without any email/phone which makes it perfect

jakub_g 6y ago

Tweet from Signal themselves with app store screenshots: https://mobile.twitter.com/signalapp/status/1347693761044701186 https://mobile.twitter.com/signalapp/status/1347693761044701... Also in France in Play Store, Signal is #1 now. In Trending, Signal is #1 and Telegram #3. Check for your country on: https://play.google.com/store/apps/top https://play.google.com/store/apps/top

mrkramer 6y ago

Like codeknight11 said "most people don't care about privacy". Only innovation can displace WhatsApp not privacy policy. Edit: Innovation can be as well business model that does not involve invading user privacy or in other words privacy friendly business model that does not rely on advertising.

beagle3 6y ago

WhatsApp won't easily be dethroned. Personally, I've sandboxed it by buying an el-cheapo Android and exclusively running it on that phone (using it mostly through WhatsApp web). It's too late for the world now, though, 99.99% of people will give in to the FB threat, FB will be free to use that data - which takes 3-5 years to become stale. So as far as FB is concerned, they have received everything they need, and have that many years to manage the next fight for dominance. But perhaps if Apple somehow introduces a "contacts" sandbox (e.g., have a contact chooser like the file chooser) and google is forced to follow suite, there won't be another one like it.

samgranieri 6y ago

Funny thing, I’ve actually never used WhatsApp after I installed it. I’m happy to see signal get more users worldwide, it’s a testament to the hard work Moxie and crew have done over the years.