10 ms·

Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you

by jbotz 6y ago

Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A lot of financial transactions are conducted by doing a bank transfer and then sending the receipt via WhatsApp. The schools send essential messages to parents via WhatsApp. During lockdowns, stores were taking delivery orders via WhatsApp. What's more, several cell phone operators' plans include unlimited WhatsApp, but only a few GB of other data... meaning when your data limits are reached you can still use WhatsApp for the rest of the month, but not i.e. Signal or Telegram. That makes is rather hard to convince people to switch. So yeah, pretty damn close to critical infrastructure. I'm still going to delete my account and see what happens, but unlike the siblings here I can't disagree with parent, at least for Brazil. [Edit] When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case. And otherwise there's really no friction to deleting an account, since you can always recreate it.

gst 6y ago
> [Edit] When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case. And otherwise there's really no friction to deleting an account, since you can always recreate it. There are several third-party tools that allow to convert the history from Android to iOS. I recently switched and was able to keep all of my history.
- hnick 6y ago
  Mind naming the one you used? We'll have a spare iPhone soon when my wife upgrades and it might be time for me to go back to iOS after many years. I'm just a bit worried about some apps and things that might be harder to migrate like this.
incrudible 6y ago
I like to think the problem is that "the nerds" have failed the rest of the people. People used to listen to us about computer stuff. Then computers became usable without us. Then smartphones arrived. We gladly were relieved of our obligations, but also of our influence. It's too late to go back. People are already used to the trade-offs, convenience rules above all. People may be "sort of concerned" about privacy, but they shrug it off. If privacy was high-value, any privacy-conscious competitor would've taken the market by storm.
- raziel2p 6y ago
  Eh, it's not like "the nerds" can build a better product in terms of UX anyway, and definitely can't market it better. Besides, who says "the nerds" are trustworthy anyway? They keep arguing among each other about which operating system or programming language is best, and why should we take their advice when software security vulnerabilities keep being discovered? Not disagreeing with your point - it's become too easy to just randomly click "agree" on any TOS and trade away your privacy/security for convenience - but don't make it an "us vs them" type of thing. To me, this is purely corporate interest being prioritized ahead of public needs because most politicians either have no spine or answer to lobbyists more than the common person.
  - rubin55 6y ago
    What’s wrong with ‘wall’ or ‘irssi’! ;)
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    I'd trust most nerds over most salesmen, but hat's what people do by clicking "I agree". Don't deal with the devil.
    - raziel2p 6y ago
      Kind of want to agree, but you're comparing the extremes on both sides. The truth is somewhere in-between, and consider that for mainstream products like WhatsApp or Windows or whatever, the general public never deal with actual salesmen, just word of mouth and marketing.
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
In my country, WhatsApp, Facebook and Youtube are not free, but are a lot cheaper than general data packages. Which means we must organize even harder to get rid of these non-internet-neutrality believing companies.
reitanqild 6y ago
> Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... In my circles WhatsApp usage was pervasive and I was one of those who really pushed for it. Soon after it became obvious that Facebook was still Facebook even with WhatsApp on board we started pushing for Telegram (remember this was probably before Signal existed in its current form and long before Matrix became mainstream.) It took two years or so calendar time, a few hours work I think - mostly advocacy - and included moving people from early teenage to late eighties, but was mostly painless and definitely worth it because of usability alone, even if the most important point was to keep our social graps out of the hands of future Cambridge Analyticas and whoever else Facebook wants to sell it to. (And I've hopefully learned not to underestimate grannies..!) Today I'd probably pushed for Matrix, but as mentioned above that was not an option then. Signal is also really nice despite one or a few big security problems (remotely exploit in the desktop client being the big one for me). Also it is US centric with all the problems that comes with it, it prioritizes security above everything and UX actually suffers from it and it isn¨t open, so as far as I can see we are locked in should they turn bad.
hiq 6y ago
> When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case. You can keep the unencrypted DB files.
pedrorijo91 6y ago
> What's more, several cell phone operators' plans include unlimited WhatsApp, but only a few GB of other data... meaning when your data limits are reached you can still use WhatsApp for the rest of the month, but not i.e. Signal or Telegram. That makes is rather hard to convince people to switch. isn't this illegal? Portugal had such a problem, but i don't think anything happened since this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15905843 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15905843
- Liskni_si 6y ago
  Wikipedia says net neutrality is enforced in Brazil, so it should be illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_by_country#Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_by_country#Braz...
- alephu5 6y ago
  This is also the case in Peru and Colombia.
- marc_abonce 6y ago
  It's zero-rating, which is a loophole to go around most net neutrality laws. Governments would have to patch that loophole or enforce a stricter interpretation of net neutrality laws, but then everybody would hate them because they'd be banning free stuff.
  - pedrorijo91 6y ago
    what do you mean by zero-rating?
ufo 6y ago
In Brazil, even telehealth appointments are often done via Whatsapp these days. It really is everywhere.
xiphias2 6y ago
Whole Central and South America is like this actually. I have travelled to many countries. Often this is the only way to get a hospital appointment, and I prioritize my health over privacy from Facebook.
- baq 6y ago
  this single post would be grounds for nationalization/breakup/conversion to utility status for me. i wouldn't believe this if there weren't so many of you saying the same thing here. it's unthinkable for me to send any kind of confidential information via whatsapp.
  - el-salvador 6y ago
    WhatsApp chats are advertised as End to End Encrypted. But the app has a chat backup feature that is (or used to be) in plain text.
rodolphoarruda 6y ago
I'm in Brazil as well. Everybody uses Whatsapp. It is now so entrenched into society that it turned to be part of its popular culture. When people say "I'm part of a group of old car enthusiasts", they meant they are part of a Whatsapp group in which they discuss old cars. Countless online services and apps were replaced by Whatsapp over the years, from the top of my head: all IMs, customer service apps, e-commerce (specially for SMBs), email and collaboration in general. I can't remember the last time I received a proposal or contract to be signed outside Whatsapp. My attorney asks me to send him all sorts of documentation, copies of IDs and legal evidence via Whatsapp because email is not as easy to use as the IM. Well, it's lunch time. I got to order my Burguer King meal via their Whatsapp order taking bot. How convenient.
- metafunctor 6y ago
  I'm having a hard time understanding how WhatsApp could be convenient enough to replace most online services and apps. Do you send text messages with some magic keywords to order at Burger King, or is there a person on the other end reading it, or how does that work? How do you pay? How do you browse the menu? I don't understand.
  - xenocratus 6y ago
    Don't know if they have a video example or something, but: https://www.ordering.co/whatsapp-ordering https://www.ordering.co/whatsapp-ordering EDIT: They do have an example that you can try out, around the middle of the page
  - rauljordan2020 6y ago
    In Central America whatsapp also _is_ basically the Internet along with facebook. There is a person on the other end taking your order and payments are always done in cash, although some advanced delivery drivers now carry a credit card swipe machine. Everything is done through whatsapp: bills, ordering food, govt services, parent teacher communications for children in schools, business introductions (dont know anyone who uses email for this over there). The Internet is whatsapp for these people, there is no such thing as "most online services and apps"
itsnot2020 6y ago
The reason I originally signed-up to WhatsApp was because of spending more and more time in Brazil and realising how ingrained in society it is. Even though a lot of my friends and family there have iPhones, none use iMessage.
- speeder 6y ago
  iMessage is just too risky. Reason is that it is also an interface for SMS, and SMS in Brazil is obscenely crazy expensive, some operators might charge 1 BRL per message or stuff like that (for context: 1 BRL is the price of a cup of coffee or of a bottle of water), using iMessage and having it to switch to SMS without you noticing can rack bills that are easily bigger than your wages.
  - graeme 6y ago
    There’s a toggle to disable send as sms in the settings. Of course not everyone knows that and it isn’t the default so I can see how this is a deterrent in practice.
    - itsnot2020 6y ago
      You're right, I must have activated that toggle years ago and forgotten about it. Yes the SMS fallback could be painful if you're not paying attention.
  - marc_io 6y ago
    It's not only expensive, SMS is dangerous too! There is huge amount of fraud around SMS and the “SIM swap” technique to clone credit cards and cause all kinds of havoc, some of them with the participation of corrupted employees from telecom companies.
usremane 6y ago
“I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS” I have used drfone software on computer (mac) to transfer whatsapp data from android to iphone. It is a solid software with clear instructions.
ha1zum 6y ago
Indonesia is almost like that as well. Whatsapp has replaced SMS almost everywhere.
behnamoh 6y ago
> When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case. This is a huge issue which I've had to come to grips with as well. I use both Telegram and WhatsApp (among other things) and I can't believe WhatsApp and Messenger, despite being supported by a FAANG such as FB, fall short on features - including the one you mentioned - whereas Telegram, a much smaller firm has been able to constantly provide useful features at a reasonable rate (not so fast and not so slow, so that users have time to adapt to changes). Right now I cannot use Telegram that much because my network is all on WhatsApp and Messenger, but I do miss the good features such as being able to transfer all chats to other devices and use a desktop client without having to authorize it every single time (WhatsApp sucks at this...), literally send/receive any file format and being able to send messages to yourself - which acted as a private __cloud__. I think the fact that Telegram is moving towards ads could actually be a good signal that their main revenue is going to depend on ads, and not so much on selling users' data, but we shall see.
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  > I can't believe WhatsApp and Messenger, despite being supported by a FAANG such as FB, fall short on features - including the one you mentioned - whereas Telegram Messenger has that feature too. Actually for both Messenger and Telegram it's much easier to provide it, because they don't encrypt the message, they just store them unencrypted. So they don't have anything special to do to give access to them from any device.
atum47 6y ago
Brazilian here confirming everything you've said. I have about 15 people that I chat in a daily basis, no way I can convince them to switch.
cptskippy 6y ago
When we went to Italy a few years ago it was a similar situation. You didn't have to use WhatsApp but it was far easier to get a taxi. Any driver who you didn't hail via WhatsApp would suggest you message then directly via WhatsApp for future rides.
dartharva 6y ago
Same in India. It is indeed a critical social infrastructure here, if one is "texting" someone it is inherently assumed it would be through WhatsApp. And yes, schools, offices and even the Police use it too.
unicornporn 6y ago
> When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations I've deleted my account twice and each time I exported all my data to HTML (without uploading to Google). It's possible.
rock_artist 6y ago
Also in Israel. I've tried to avoid WhatsApp for long long time (I'm Facebook free since 2010 or so). Being a parent, WhatsApp is the norm. And it's pretty impossible to change the entire society. so sadly for anything about my kids I use WhatsApp.
jolmg 6y ago
> when your data limits are reached you can still use WhatsApp for the rest of the month, but not i.e. Signal or Telegram. That makes is rather hard to convince people to switch. Is it common for people to reach their limits? I understand it may happen by accident when you turn off wifi then forget to re-enable, but normally one takes care of their data quota or their plans and usage is such that they never or rarely use it completely, right? I imagine one also has the option in both prepaid and postpaid plans to get more data for the rest of the month if it ever happens that they need more. It'd just be more expensive since it's out of package.
- officeplant 6y ago
  When I had limited plans I burned through it every month and had to live at the dialup level speeds the phone companies gave you once you used up all your LTE data. Usually it was because I had to do more driving that month than normal so I'd eat up more data streaming podcasts/music. Always kept an eye on how much data I had left, but used it all anyway. At least now I have unlimited data via a prepaid plan so I can freely tether when cable internet goes down weekly.
Thorentis 6y ago
Sounds like a replacement for SMS is needed ASAP. We should not be relying on tech giants for something as critical as messaging. SMS is provided as part of a phone plan and does not rely on any FAANGs to operate. We need an end-to-end encrypted protocol for use over the cell network that is provided by default with all cell plans.
pxf 6y ago
"When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case." - YAP!!!! TRUE!!!!
el-salvador 6y ago
WhatApp is so prevalent in El Salvador that it would be very inconvenient not to use it. It's by far the preferred communciation service. It's also the cheapest. Because its free with WiFi, and cost less than US$1.00 per day with a data plan. Compare that to phone calls that cost about US$ 0.15 per minute or SMS that cost US$ 0.06. It may not seem much, but when you factor the local minimum wage in urban areas: $1.87/hour or US$ 0.03/minute the difference becomes significant. Perhaps the closest alternative here would be Telegram. It has niche users like government, NGOs, political organizations and group chats for people with similar interests (like Facebook groups are used in some countries). I guess, WhatsApp has become like our tropicalized version of WeChat. Its used to chat with friends, family, group chats (leaving a group chat unannounced is a big faux pas). Almost every class gets a WhatsApp group for coordinating coursework. Most stores and restaurants, big and small, accept orders via Whatsapp and that way one can avoid the third party app delivery fees. It is also used to send bank transfer confirmations, and gps location pins to coordinate deliveries because our addressing system is not that good. I even did most my last loan application via WhatsApp. And also discovered last year that the only way to contact one bank about an ACH transfer was via WhatsApp or by visiting a branch. So basically, it's the most used and most affordable main way to reliably reach anyone or any company. From the largest bank, to the smallest mom and pop store. From my company's founder to the newest intern. The only thing I still get by plain SMS is multi factor authentication tokens or the ocassional spam message.
SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
> Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A Pretty much correct in some countries. My family (not in Brazil, but also not in the same country as me) all have Whatsapp. So I have it to keep in contact with them. They have it because everyone there has it. It's circular, it's the "network effect" but it's true. I can't entirely switch unless they switch too, and they can't switch unless their friends and co-workers switch. etc.
wtk 6y ago
Actually I think the EU recently passed a law that bans not counting data use toward specific domains to allow competition. It makes much sense with your comment.

by jbotz 6y ago

gst 6y ago

> [Edit] When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case. And otherwise there's really no friction to deleting an account, since you can always recreate it. There are several third-party tools that allow to convert the history from Android to iOS. I recently switched and was able to keep all of my history.

hnick 6y ago
Mind naming the one you used? We'll have a spare iPhone soon when my wife upgrades and it might be time for me to go back to iOS after many years. I'm just a bit worried about some apps and things that might be harder to migrate like this.

incrudible 6y ago

I like to think the problem is that "the nerds" have failed the rest of the people. People used to listen to us about computer stuff. Then computers became usable without us. Then smartphones arrived. We gladly were relieved of our obligations, but also of our influence. It's too late to go back. People are already used to the trade-offs, convenience rules above all. People may be "sort of concerned" about privacy, but they shrug it off. If privacy was high-value, any privacy-conscious competitor would've taken the market by storm.

raziel2p 6y ago
Eh, it's not like "the nerds" can build a better product in terms of UX anyway, and definitely can't market it better. Besides, who says "the nerds" are trustworthy anyway? They keep arguing among each other about which operating system or programming language is best, and why should we take their advice when software security vulnerabilities keep being discovered? Not disagreeing with your point - it's become too easy to just randomly click "agree" on any TOS and trade away your privacy/security for convenience - but don't make it an "us vs them" type of thing. To me, this is purely corporate interest being prioritized ahead of public needs because most politicians either have no spine or answer to lobbyists more than the common person.
- rubin55 6y ago
  What’s wrong with ‘wall’ or ‘irssi’! ;)
- MayeulC 6y ago
  I'd trust most nerds over most salesmen, but hat's what people do by clicking "I agree". Don't deal with the devil.
  - raziel2p 6y ago
    Kind of want to agree, but you're comparing the extremes on both sides. The truth is somewhere in-between, and consider that for mainstream products like WhatsApp or Windows or whatever, the general public never deal with actual salesmen, just word of mouth and marketing.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

In my country, WhatsApp, Facebook and Youtube are not free, but are a lot cheaper than general data packages. Which means we must organize even harder to get rid of these non-internet-neutrality believing companies.

reitanqild 6y ago

> Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... In my circles WhatsApp usage was pervasive and I was one of those who really pushed for it. Soon after it became obvious that Facebook was still Facebook even with WhatsApp on board we started pushing for Telegram (remember this was probably before Signal existed in its current form and long before Matrix became mainstream.) It took two years or so calendar time, a few hours work I think - mostly advocacy - and included moving people from early teenage to late eighties, but was mostly painless and definitely worth it because of usability alone, even if the most important point was to keep our social graps out of the hands of future Cambridge Analyticas and whoever else Facebook wants to sell it to. (And I've hopefully learned not to underestimate grannies..!) Today I'd probably pushed for Matrix, but as mentioned above that was not an option then. Signal is also really nice despite one or a few big security problems (remotely exploit in the desktop client being the big one for me). Also it is US centric with all the problems that comes with it, it prioritizes security above everything and UX actually suffers from it and it isn¨t open, so as far as I can see we are locked in should they turn bad.

hiq 6y ago

pedrorijo91 6y ago

> What's more, several cell phone operators' plans include unlimited WhatsApp, but only a few GB of other data... meaning when your data limits are reached you can still use WhatsApp for the rest of the month, but not i.e. Signal or Telegram. That makes is rather hard to convince people to switch. isn't this illegal? Portugal had such a problem, but i don't think anything happened since this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15905843 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15905843

Liskni_si 6y ago
Wikipedia says net neutrality is enforced in Brazil, so it should be illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_by_country#Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_by_country#Braz...
alephu5 6y ago
This is also the case in Peru and Colombia.
marc_abonce 6y ago
It's zero-rating, which is a loophole to go around most net neutrality laws. Governments would have to patch that loophole or enforce a stricter interpretation of net neutrality laws, but then everybody would hate them because they'd be banning free stuff.
- pedrorijo91 6y ago
  what do you mean by zero-rating?

ufo 6y ago

In Brazil, even telehealth appointments are often done via Whatsapp these days. It really is everywhere.

xiphias2 6y ago

Whole Central and South America is like this actually. I have travelled to many countries. Often this is the only way to get a hospital appointment, and I prioritize my health over privacy from Facebook.

baq 6y ago
this single post would be grounds for nationalization/breakup/conversion to utility status for me. i wouldn't believe this if there weren't so many of you saying the same thing here. it's unthinkable for me to send any kind of confidential information via whatsapp.
- el-salvador 6y ago
  WhatsApp chats are advertised as End to End Encrypted. But the app has a chat backup feature that is (or used to be) in plain text.

rodolphoarruda 6y ago

I'm in Brazil as well. Everybody uses Whatsapp. It is now so entrenched into society that it turned to be part of its popular culture. When people say "I'm part of a group of old car enthusiasts", they meant they are part of a Whatsapp group in which they discuss old cars. Countless online services and apps were replaced by Whatsapp over the years, from the top of my head: all IMs, customer service apps, e-commerce (specially for SMBs), email and collaboration in general. I can't remember the last time I received a proposal or contract to be signed outside Whatsapp. My attorney asks me to send him all sorts of documentation, copies of IDs and legal evidence via Whatsapp because email is not as easy to use as the IM. Well, it's lunch time. I got to order my Burguer King meal via their Whatsapp order taking bot. How convenient.

metafunctor 6y ago
I'm having a hard time understanding how WhatsApp could be convenient enough to replace most online services and apps. Do you send text messages with some magic keywords to order at Burger King, or is there a person on the other end reading it, or how does that work? How do you pay? How do you browse the menu? I don't understand.
- xenocratus 6y ago
  Don't know if they have a video example or something, but: https://www.ordering.co/whatsapp-ordering https://www.ordering.co/whatsapp-ordering EDIT: They do have an example that you can try out, around the middle of the page
- rauljordan2020 6y ago
  In Central America whatsapp also _is_ basically the Internet along with facebook. There is a person on the other end taking your order and payments are always done in cash, although some advanced delivery drivers now carry a credit card swipe machine. Everything is done through whatsapp: bills, ordering food, govt services, parent teacher communications for children in schools, business introductions (dont know anyone who uses email for this over there). The Internet is whatsapp for these people, there is no such thing as "most online services and apps"

itsnot2020 6y ago

The reason I originally signed-up to WhatsApp was because of spending more and more time in Brazil and realising how ingrained in society it is. Even though a lot of my friends and family there have iPhones, none use iMessage.

speeder 6y ago
iMessage is just too risky. Reason is that it is also an interface for SMS, and SMS in Brazil is obscenely crazy expensive, some operators might charge 1 BRL per message or stuff like that (for context: 1 BRL is the price of a cup of coffee or of a bottle of water), using iMessage and having it to switch to SMS without you noticing can rack bills that are easily bigger than your wages.
- graeme 6y ago
  There’s a toggle to disable send as sms in the settings. Of course not everyone knows that and it isn’t the default so I can see how this is a deterrent in practice.
  - itsnot2020 6y ago
    You're right, I must have activated that toggle years ago and forgotten about it. Yes the SMS fallback could be painful if you're not paying attention.
- marc_io 6y ago
  It's not only expensive, SMS is dangerous too! There is huge amount of fraud around SMS and the “SIM swap” technique to clone credit cards and cause all kinds of havoc, some of them with the participation of corrupted employees from telecom companies.

usremane 6y ago

“I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS” I have used drfone software on computer (mac) to transfer whatsapp data from android to iphone. It is a solid software with clear instructions.

ha1zum 6y ago

Indonesia is almost like that as well. Whatsapp has replaced SMS almost everywhere.

behnamoh 6y ago

> When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case. This is a huge issue which I've had to come to grips with as well. I use both Telegram and WhatsApp (among other things) and I can't believe WhatsApp and Messenger, despite being supported by a FAANG such as FB, fall short on features - including the one you mentioned - whereas Telegram, a much smaller firm has been able to constantly provide useful features at a reasonable rate (not so fast and not so slow, so that users have time to adapt to changes). Right now I cannot use Telegram that much because my network is all on WhatsApp and Messenger, but I do miss the good features such as being able to transfer all chats to other devices and use a desktop client without having to authorize it every single time (WhatsApp sucks at this...), literally send/receive any file format and being able to send messages to yourself - which acted as a private __cloud__. I think the fact that Telegram is moving towards ads could actually be a good signal that their main revenue is going to depend on ads, and not so much on selling users' data, but we shall see.

benhurmarcel 6y ago
> I can't believe WhatsApp and Messenger, despite being supported by a FAANG such as FB, fall short on features - including the one you mentioned - whereas Telegram Messenger has that feature too. Actually for both Messenger and Telegram it's much easier to provide it, because they don't encrypt the message, they just store them unencrypted. So they don't have anything special to do to give access to them from any device.

atum47 6y ago

Brazilian here confirming everything you've said. I have about 15 people that I chat in a daily basis, no way I can convince them to switch.

cptskippy 6y ago

When we went to Italy a few years ago it was a similar situation. You didn't have to use WhatsApp but it was far easier to get a taxi. Any driver who you didn't hail via WhatsApp would suggest you message then directly via WhatsApp for future rides.

dartharva 6y ago

Same in India. It is indeed a critical social infrastructure here, if one is "texting" someone it is inherently assumed it would be through WhatsApp. And yes, schools, offices and even the Police use it too.

unicornporn 6y ago

> When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations I've deleted my account twice and each time I exported all my data to HTML (without uploading to Google). It's possible.

rock_artist 6y ago

Also in Israel. I've tried to avoid WhatsApp for long long time (I'm Facebook free since 2010 or so). Being a parent, WhatsApp is the norm. And it's pretty impossible to change the entire society. so sadly for anything about my kids I use WhatsApp.

jolmg 6y ago

> when your data limits are reached you can still use WhatsApp for the rest of the month, but not i.e. Signal or Telegram. That makes is rather hard to convince people to switch. Is it common for people to reach their limits? I understand it may happen by accident when you turn off wifi then forget to re-enable, but normally one takes care of their data quota or their plans and usage is such that they never or rarely use it completely, right? I imagine one also has the option in both prepaid and postpaid plans to get more data for the rest of the month if it ever happens that they need more. It'd just be more expensive since it's out of package.

officeplant 6y ago
When I had limited plans I burned through it every month and had to live at the dialup level speeds the phone companies gave you once you used up all your LTE data. Usually it was because I had to do more driving that month than normal so I'd eat up more data streaming podcasts/music. Always kept an eye on how much data I had left, but used it all anyway. At least now I have unlimited data via a prepaid plan so I can freely tether when cable internet goes down weekly.

Thorentis 6y ago

Sounds like a replacement for SMS is needed ASAP. We should not be relying on tech giants for something as critical as messaging. SMS is provided as part of a phone plan and does not rely on any FAANGs to operate. We need an end-to-end encrypted protocol for use over the cell network that is provided by default with all cell plans.

pxf 6y ago

"When I delete my account I'm going to lose old conversations, but that doesn't bother me anymore because I already recently lost them once when I switched from Android to iOS... WhatsApp has no way of keeping your history in that case." - YAP!!!! TRUE!!!!

el-salvador 6y ago

WhatApp is so prevalent in El Salvador that it would be very inconvenient not to use it. It's by far the preferred communciation service. It's also the cheapest. Because its free with WiFi, and cost less than US$1.00 per day with a data plan. Compare that to phone calls that cost about US$ 0.15 per minute or SMS that cost US$ 0.06. It may not seem much, but when you factor the local minimum wage in urban areas: $1.87/hour or US$ 0.03/minute the difference becomes significant. Perhaps the closest alternative here would be Telegram. It has niche users like government, NGOs, political organizations and group chats for people with similar interests (like Facebook groups are used in some countries). I guess, WhatsApp has become like our tropicalized version of WeChat. Its used to chat with friends, family, group chats (leaving a group chat unannounced is a big faux pas). Almost every class gets a WhatsApp group for coordinating coursework. Most stores and restaurants, big and small, accept orders via Whatsapp and that way one can avoid the third party app delivery fees. It is also used to send bank transfer confirmations, and gps location pins to coordinate deliveries because our addressing system is not that good. I even did most my last loan application via WhatsApp. And also discovered last year that the only way to contact one bank about an ACH transfer was via WhatsApp or by visiting a branch. So basically, it's the most used and most affordable main way to reliably reach anyone or any company. From the largest bank, to the smallest mom and pop store. From my company's founder to the newest intern. The only thing I still get by plain SMS is multi factor authentication tokens or the ocassional spam message.

SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago

> Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A Pretty much correct in some countries. My family (not in Brazil, but also not in the same country as me) all have Whatsapp. So I have it to keep in contact with them. They have it because everyone there has it. It's circular, it's the "network effect" but it's true. I can't entirely switch unless they switch too, and they can't switch unless their friends and co-workers switch. etc.

wtk 6y ago

Actually I think the EU recently passed a law that bans not counting data use toward specific domains to allow competition. It makes much sense with your comment.