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US doctor forgives $650k in medical bills for cancer patients

277 points by williamsharris 6y ago

gorgoiler 6y ago
Setting aside the wider context of healthcare, that’s a lot of debt for a business to cancel. What do the final books look like for this particular cancer treatment centre in Arkansas? Is $650k the entire profit they made over 30 years, or what they’d make in three months’?
jmcgough 6y ago
Perhaps I'm being too cynical, but accounts in collections are typically sold at about 4% value. They'd expect to get about 26k back from that debt. Perhaps they felt the good PR was worth that much?
- DharmaPolice 6y ago
  He's closed his practice so I'm not sure why he would care that much about the value of the PR? You're right that he's probably "only" written off a fraction of the headline amount but that doesn't feel like it matters much in this context.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  > Dr Omar Atiq closed his cancer treatment centre in Arkansas last year after nearly 30 years in business. If he closed up then good PR is worthless is it not? Also debt can be collected at a fee, or sold at a loss. He probably wanted to collect the 600k but when he got calls from the collection agency about the inability to pay he decided it wasn't worth it. That's my understanding.
- whoisjuan 6y ago
  I mean, you’re not wrong. But this outcome is far from covering his losses. Being charitable isn’t always a give all, take none situation. In this case is clear that there’s some positive outcome for the doctor by forgiving debts. This doctor gets some positive PR, can write off this as a loss for tax purposes and the patients are relieved from their debts. Seems like a win-win for a hopeless situation. So
- cbanek 6y ago
  I also wonder if it's different for tax purposes? Not sure if it's considered a loss or a donation at this point, but it's probably good to at least get it off the books if they are shutting down.
starpilot 6y ago
He has done more good than legions of software engineers who make multiples of his income.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  You can argue that software engineers who implemented avionics software that keeps airplanes safe or created thermostat-controlling software to reduce waste of energy and greenhouse gasses contributed even more given the scale of the applications. I have no idea what the point of your comment is though.
- MrGilbert 6y ago
  He has done more good than legions of software engineers who make multiples of his income. He has done more good than legions of CEOs who make multiples of his income. So... what's the point?
- muzani 6y ago
  I wish I had $650k to forgive. I've forgiven debts for a total of about $3300, but there's still that guy who owes $10k and told me 3 years ago that he'd pay me once he gets his BMW repaired.
- imgabe 6y ago
  He's an oncologist who was able to shrug and write off $650k of money he was owed. I'm pretty sure his income is multiples of the average non-FAANG software engineer. He was running his own practice so low to mid 7-figures would not be out of the question.
  - csharptwdec19 6y ago
    Yep, I wouldn't be surprised if the tax write-offs for this made the 'real' impact far less.
- throwe4234234 6y ago
  I'm sure all of can do pro-bono consulting and say that that cost a gajillion dollars as well.
deleted 6y ago
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gos_abhi 6y ago
BBC is just pakistani muslim mouthpiece, there are many doctors who waive of bills. A 4% value debt of 650k is promoted as a huge deal. If you investigate carefully, you will find that the same doctor funded terrorists who killed americans all over the world.
Areading314 6y ago
One of the most unfair characteristics of US healthcare is that if the health insurance company does not cover a claim, then the patient is responsible for the payment. It is unrealistic in practice for a patient to know or understand the process by which claims are made (since they are made by an error prone and disinterested provider administrator, and are made in a non-transparent and highly complex way), and also unrealistic for a patient to be able to do anything about a denied claim, since there is virtually no competition in the market for health insurance, and because a patient would almost never have the means to sue a health insurance company for damages. All this creates a very poor system that rewards administrators and shareholders at the expense of patients.
- shakezula 6y ago
  And even if you can contest the denial, it can take days to months to get it back, meanwhile you’re shouldered with the burden of paying full price for your treatment with the _hope_ that they’ll reimburse you later. My fiancée has cancer, and we regularly joke that dealing with insurance companies is worse than the actual stage 3 cancer she has. They constantly deny her coverage for medications she’s been on for years, they will randomly require new tests to make sure she still has cancer (megalolz), they’ll decide they don’t want to cover procedures just for fun until we call and argue with a representative for a few hours and then all of a sudden it’s a “billing mistake” that can be reversed. It’s a racket, plain and simple. Medical care should never be tied to personal wealth, period.
  - FpUser 6y ago
    >"It’s a racket, plain and simple. Medical care should never be tied to personal wealth, period." In agreement. Still Government covered medical care has their own methods of avoiding / delaying procedures. In the end it all comes down to money.
    - simonh 6y ago
      You may not have meant it to come across this way, but "The alternative isn't absolutely perfect in every way, therefore both options are equivalent" isn't a useful contribution.
Pfhreak 6y ago
This is a prime example of a feel good story that is papering over systemic problems. We're meant to read this and think this doctor is a good person (and they are, at least for this act) rather than, "how is it possible there was this much medical debt for cancer treatment to forgive?" Yes, debt forgiveness is great and something we can all do as mutual aid, but we also need to acknowledge that the deeply flawed idea that healthcare should be a "marketplace" rather than just a baseline good for everyone is the real story here.
- unishark 6y ago
  It was for 200 people. Works out to about $3k per person on average.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    Which is a fortune to many (most?) Americans. That's like 5% of the median income. And these people just had cancer, so it's less likely they've been able to hold down steady work.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      That's less than most Americans spend on food per year, without which you die.
- a1371 6y ago
  It's amazing that their kindness has touched so many lives but yes, the need for it could have been avoided in the first place.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Frankly it seems like the doctor got screwed out of his pay by the system too. He should be as mad at US healthcare as his now bankrupt patients. Nothing about this feels good.
- unabst 6y ago
  Exactly. If that was the debt at the end of his practice, just imagine how much debt he bestowed during the 30 years it ran. I wonder how many patients went bankrupt... seriously, with the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US being medical. But that wouldn't be a story. That's just every clinic in the USA. And who wants to be reminded of that?
deleted 6y ago
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amitport 6y ago
Why is this an article? People and organizations (even banks) and governments erase debt all the time. Sometimes it's from kindness, sometimes for PR, usually because they're unable to collect it. You can't really tell the difference among the cases.
- hliyan 6y ago
  I'm a long time HN reader interested mostly in tech content, but I was happy to hear this story. Yes, it speaks to a systemic issue. Yes, there are many others doing this. This is one person basically giving up half-a-million dollars. I worry about a world where a story about that needs justification.
  - efwfwef 6y ago
    I worry about a world where we read this, and we feel good about ourselves, and we forget that people live without healthcare.
  - amitport 6y ago
    Yes, how the debt was created is interesting. I'm having trouble with the framing of the article in relation to "forgiving" a debt.
- throwe4234234 6y ago
  "We can't buildings because we ran out of inches" The whole monetary system is a joke, no not that it's evil, just that our (and govt.) attitude to it is so medieval.
- e_y_ 6y ago
  John Oliver's Last Week Tonight bought and forgave $15M of medical debt for $60k (probably deemed uncollectible) as part of a segment about the debt collection industry. And because on paper it was a bigger giveaway than Oprah's "Everybody gets a car" giveaway.
  - gorgoiler 6y ago
fraggle_sock 6y ago
The only real thing this story presents is a reminder of how fucked up the US healthcare system is. It's barbaric, backwards and uncivil that medical debt even exists. The US government really needs to get over its slavish devotion to capitalism and implement a single-payer healthcare system that is free at the point of use for all. The hundreds of billions of dollars they dish out each year on killing people would be much better put to use in healing people.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  Capitalism is great where choice exists. Capitalism means each individual can choose how to allocate his resources based on the market at the time. I might decide, for example, that owning a car is currently too expensive and I'd rather shift that allocation towards owning a house. It's my choice. Healthcare is not a choice. Nobody who discovers they are critically ill examines the market and decides it is not worth allocating resources to it. Once you're ill, you're all in. No choice. The only thing that makes capitalism good is gone. But everything that makes it bad is still there.
efwfwef 6y ago
Good for that patient, what about the other patients who didn't get that chance?
- nether 6y ago
  They didn't get the chance, just like I didn't get the chance for this and a million other benefits. The trolley ran them over but we can still divert it to prevent harming others.
- mulmen 6y ago
  It was 200 patients.
pcurve 6y ago
Sure this is mostly PR not just for doctor but also for the collection agency. But the outcome was positive. Everyone wins.
- efwfwef 6y ago
  What about the people who cannot pay their medical bills? Or who cannot get medical care due to the cost? They're winning too?
  - rlt 6y ago
    What about them? They’re not the subjects of the article.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Their debt was forgiven after the doctor realized he couldn't squeeze blood from a stone.
atmosx 6y ago
A good question would be what can be done to fix healthcare in the US? My understanding is that most voters don't support universal healthcare. IIRC even Obamacare was labeled as controversial. Current model costs way more, the model is clearly broken, why there is no pressure to fix it? ps. I don't want to get political or anything by mentioning Obamacare. I'm genuinely curious because the problems of the current healthcare system are very well known and discussed for at least 20 years.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  > even Obamacare was labeled as controversial Obama lied about it: https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obamas-whoppers/ https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obamas-whoppers/ Also, some like to point at European countries (e.g. France) as proof that universal healthcare works, ignoring that a) some of those countries are very different from the US, and b) even the "successful" ones aren't proven viable for the future, i.e. rising costs. If you want to improve things, how? The money has to come from somewhere, and so far may of the plans punish those that already have health plans. Some administration needs the balls to truly reform healthcare laws - but that's one hell of a fight, especially while concurrently fighting all the other issues/culture wars at the moment.
  - JimTheMan 6y ago
    They've proven cheaper and more effective in other countries for decades... Healthcare costs are rising everywhere as well, it alone isn't enough to somehow wipe away the fact the US pays about double for worse care.
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      Decades isn't long enough. If Healthcare costs are rising everywhere, then no-one has a stable solution. And I'm talking about universal healthcare, not American healthcare; the difference being that there are more than one factors that goes into the end-result of American healthcare, so if you start talking about universal specifically and then switch to American outcomes, you are implying the one follows from the other, and the burden is on you that that outcome is purely due to that one factor (and not, say, a culture of litigation; or cultures of corporate lobbying/corruption etc). I'd also wonder which part of my post drew downvotes. I hope it's not that I dared suggest that Obama lied. But that was one reason it was controversial, and that future efforts at something similar are now damaged; who'd trust a similar proposition when even wunderkind Obama couldn't be straight about the deal?
nobrains 6y ago
Sorry, if this is another angle, but I would have been more happy if instead of mentioning US doctor (or in addition to mentioning it), they would have mentioned his traits viz. "muslim" and "pakistani-origin". (I am happy none the less) Muslims are currently vilified, and Pakistani isn't in the best books right now. So, a little nod to someone who did good being muslim and pakistani-origin goes a long way to neutralize stereo types, without taking away the good work from anyone. He studied at University of Peshawar. You know, the same Peshawar where OBL was found (edit: sorry, OBL was found in Abbotabad). Throwing some positive light there will help the millions (Pakistan is a very populous country) raise their self-worth. And regarding erasing debt, you have to realize that it is not easy, especially when family is involved. There will be children who will have wanted to have that money for themselves, and slightly poorer relatives who would have said "why not us first". So, helping strangers (well, client, but still not relatives or friends) should be applauded whenever it happens. Also, direct payments (or debt relief) is the best. No leak into admin expenses.
- ryzvonusef 6y ago
  OBL was found in Abbottabad /minor_nitpick
  - formalsystems 6y ago
    I was searching crunchbase for a Pakistani company named OBL founded in Peshawar, when I finally caught the bin Laden reference.
    - pjc50 6y ago
      It was nine years ago. Remember that there are people voting in the recent US election born after 9/11; the forever war in the middle east has been going on for a while.
  - nobrains 6y ago
    You are right. Corrected. Thanks.
- 6y ago
yawaworht1978 6y ago
The bbc tries to appear neutral they will often avoid telling the origins of people , for good or bad deeds. Very kind of this doctor but this should never happen in the first place. Probably will not happen in my life time but the US should simply implement a health care system the well developed EU nations. Cancer and sickness are realities of life but paying 10s of thousands for hospital bills is simply out of scope for the vast majority of people. I had a US friend who was a low digits millionaire and a renal failure. He ended up losing all the money for medication and eventually his life. Now compare that to a low or no income person. Medical aid should not be granted put of pity or mercy in this age. We have covid and that is affecting all, suddenly vaccines and rollouts are approved in record times. When it hits home it really hurts, I suppose. The loud mouths who used to shout "not my problem" are much less noisy these days(bar the ones with questionable mental stability who think the virus is fake etc). All the capitalism and its ceremony is fine, but without a healthy body or society, who will generate that wealth?
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > Cancer and sickness are realities of life but paying 10s of thousands for hospital bills is simply out of scope for the vast majority of people. I had a US friend who was a low digits millionaire and a renal failure. He ended up losing all the money for medication and eventually his life. Now compare that to a low or no income person. Medical aid should not be granted put of pity or mercy in this age. sickness and death is/are terrible but for much of human history we have had to accept them. now people can live but then have to repay the advanced technology medical complex that saved them with corresponding functional labor and you think it's a bug? its measured in tens of thousands of dollars but maybe 1) its worth that much or 2) it costs that much because of all the freeloaders (not sure what value-neutral term you want me to use for people who consume healthcare but don't pay for it) that have to be paid for. likely both are somewhat true. I'm sorry your friend died. Do you think his loss would be any less traumatic if he had been provided a government healthcare system access where one day he just wasn't "worth" the medicine it would take to treat him? Surely you understand that all systems involve rationing scarce resources and its reasonable for at least some people to use markets because of their proven success at rewarding commodification of value. > All the capitalism and its ceremony is fine, but without a healthy body or society, who will generate that wealth? Our perspective is that capitalism is the medicine that society needs and has not tried. Surely you agree that regulations proliferate and people are fat, sick, unhealthy, and exploited.
known 6y ago
aka altruism
tomaskafka 6y ago
$650k gets you something like measuring of temperature and prescription of Paralen in the US, right? (I am always amazed how an act or treatment that costs around $20 in Europe costs thousands of dollars in the US and no one seems to mind.)
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > no one seems to mind Oh we mind alright, we just don't have effective means of changing the system.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - KSteffensen 6y ago
    Not as long as the US citizenry as as afraid of taxes and 'socialism' as they are.
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      We’re not interested in exchanging one set of pigs for another.
- chasd00 6y ago
  it doesn't, that's just what the bill says. The $500 aspirin stories are about what's printed on the bill but that is no where close to what is actually paid. This is a huge problem IMO and i mentioned it upthread. The prices printed on bills are never what's paid (unless some poor patient thinks that's what they actually owe). It's all negotiable. Taking away price negotiating and enforcing that what is on the bill is what is expected to be paid would help a lot. These ridiculous numbers would go away and people would actually know what their healthcare actually costs. edit: here's something to try, let's say your in teh US and you have a prescription card that does not cover brand medications, only generic. Goto your pharmacist and ask them how much you'll have to pay to get the brand. Then, offer to pay them half that amount in cash. You'll be surprised at the results.
29athrowaway 6y ago
This episode of "Adam ruins everything" covers healthcare insurance providers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8 My takeaway is that the system is calibrated to aggresively punish people without insurance.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  The system was calibrated to create as much friction to receiving healthcare if you are poorer (usually meant you didn’t have insurance pre ACA). Medicaid is the “insurance” for poor people, which pays healthcare providers on the low end and a as a result is not accepted as much. The more friction that it creates for poorer people, the less healthcare they will use, and that helps keep taxes low.
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    Interesting perspective. Although preventive care is usually cheaper for society than the alternatives IMO. I've heard in some countries, e.g.: the UK, you get summoned by your doctor for preventive care, and this approach helps reducing the overall cost of healthcare.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Preventative care is not subject to deductibles (i.e. free for people with insurance) after ACA, such as annual wellness exams, vaccinations, etc. People just don’t want to do it, or if they do, they don’t want to give up their sugar/carbs/alcohol/sat fats/sedentary lifestyle habits. Which is probably the cause for the majority of chronic healthcare spending.
      - rsynnott 6y ago
        > Which is probably the cause for the majority of chronic healthcare spending. I doubt it's a _huge_ factor, honestly. The fatter Western European nations (UK and Ireland, for instance) don't have unduly expensive systems; Ireland spends about 5k per capita, the UK about $4k per capita. Much thinner France spends $4.6k. Now, France _does_ outperform both the UK and Ireland on most metrics, but not by a huge amount.
seesawtron 6y ago
As noble as it sounds, I failed to comprehend from the title how could a doctor have the authority to forgive half a million dollars alone when most of the costs go to the hospital for services and infrastructure. But in this case, the doctor decided to close his entire treatment centre. That is certainly a relief for the patients who have huge debts but not so great for the future patients who could have been treated at the centre? "There are no solutions, only trade-offs"
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I have business partners who are doctors that regularly earn half a million a year. The ones that own (successful) practices earn even more. See: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overview-6012684 https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overvie... https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specialty/ https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specia...
  - seesawtron 6y ago
    Do you imply that the doctor in this case could just easily open another clinic? Or that he doesn't need to because of enouch savings?
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Neither. You wrote: >I failed to comprehend from the title how could a doctor have the authority to forgive half a million dollars alone when most of the costs go to the hospital for services and infrastructure. But in this case, the doctor decided to close his entire treatment centre. I presumed you were not aware that the doctor himself (or his personal business) was capable of being owed $650k. So I was pointing out that doctors (or the businesses they own) do earn enough to be able to be owed $650k that they can forgive. Now that I re-read your comment, I'm actually not sure what you meant or where hospitals came into play. This doctor closed his business because he retired, it had nothing to do with the debt he was owed. And since he (or his business) was the entity that was owed $650k, it seems well within his rights to choose not to pursue payment for the debt.
isoblvck 6y ago
this feel good story is more like an expose on the hellscape that is paying for medical care
trynewideas 6y ago
Some context: the clinic (technically named the Arkansas Cancer Institute, not the Arkansas Cancer Clinic as in the story) faced lawsuits in 2018-19 after more than 50 patients tested positive for an undisclosed bacterial infection linked to saline flushes on infusion ports.[1][2] The results of the lawsuit weren't reported, but the clinic closed in February 2020, about a year after the firm behind the suit pursued class-action status. [1] https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/feb/03/at-first-pine-bluff-clinic-outbreak-a-m/ https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/feb/03/at-first-pin... [2] https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/jan/13/pb-clinic-lawsuit-adds-two-plaintiffs-2/ https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/jan/13/pb-clinic-la...
- rozab 6y ago
  Some evidence that such infections are preventable and thus are caused by malpractice: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/9/8905959/medical-harm-infection-prevention https://www.vox.com/2015/7/9/8905959/medical-harm-infection-... (yes, vox do hit the mark occasionally)
- programmertote 6y ago
  Glad to see someone pointing out the context. Certainly this doctor and his family did a great thing by forgoing the debt owed by his patients. BUT, my wife worked and volunteered at a few private clinics around NY metro areas and I would wager that this doctor's clinic already makes a lot of money (2-3x that 650K) every year if not more. As an example, one of the primary care physician's clinic that my wife (who is now in medical residency) used to work in NY Chinatown (a lot of patients there are on Medicaid/Medicare, etc.) still raked in at least $600K/year. The doctor sees ~40-50 patients a day. The doctor would write one or two bogus diagnoses to inflate the billing codes to make up for the 'loss in revenue' due to treating patients on Medicaid or simply making each patient encounter worth it. Another example from a different clinic, where my wife used to volunteer, put on phone consultation fee in the bill when the patient called in to check about his appointment and asked a side question about one of his medication. It literally took that psychiatrist less than a minute to answer that call, but the patient is going to be footing ~$50-$100 from his/her co-pay. In summary, some of these private clinics (not to mention the hospitals and we have read about their b.s. billing practices many times) are billing patients bogus stuff on almost every patient encounter. Some of them justify this by saying it's not the patient who pays the bill (but in fact, some patients with high deductibles/co-pay have to) or that they need to make up for their expected earning of running a private clinic (which is better than what a general physician would earn--$250K/year on average--at a hospital).
cataphract 6y ago
Doesn't this debt forgiveness mean the patients are going to be hit with a tax bill for the amount forgiven this year?
- cldellow 6y ago
  I'm not an accountant (or an American), but I don't think so. USC 108(e)(2) says: > No income shall be realized from the discharge of indebtedness to the extent that payment of the liability would have given rise to a deduction. And because medical bills are deductible when itemized, I suspect they would qualify for this exemption. [1]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/108 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/108
  - danaliv 6y ago
    Medical expenses are only deductible once you've exceeded a certain percentage of your income. I've never been able to deduct anything substantial, and I've had some pretty outrageous medical bills. (Cancer survivor.) And that phrase "to the extent" reads to me like it means any amount forgiven that doesn't meet the threshold is considered income. One year I was billed $40k for radiation. You know, a thing I needed or else I would've died. I managed to negotiate that down to $25k. (While having cancer!) You'd think that would meet the threshold for deduction, but there's a catch: you can't deduct the bill, you can only deduct what you've actually paid. So if you do a payment plan, which of course I did because how the hell else was I going to pay that, now that bill is spread out too much to be eligible for deduction. The US medical system is fucked, full stop. We wouldn't tolerate someone holding a gun to your head and saying "I'll put the gun away for $40k." And if you do manage to get treatment, now you're trapped in a game with rules only slightly more complicated than Dungeons & Dragons - and the DM is a sociopath.
Maksadbek 6y ago
It is very good that hospitals give debts for patients. I live in Uzbekistan and my father has pancreas cancer. There are no good oncologists in my country. I've contacted many hospitals worldwide and most of them asking about 10K USD and we must pay 80% of the bills before they start curing my father and of course I can't afford this amount of money and I have no any option to get it. I am ready to be in debt for any amount if they could try to do smth and make my father's last days a bit better for him.
- simple_phrases 6y ago
  This is the same case in the US. Nobody is getting cancer treatment without insurance or the ability to pay. Hospitals in the US only need to stabilize an uninsured patient, and that doesn't include treating cancer or chronic conditions.
  - Maksadbek 6y ago
    :/
Railsify 6y ago
I think there is an important point to be highlighted: We often blame the system for being expensive but in this case an individual doctor was able to say we will not collect. These decisions to charge patients a literal fortune for treatment probably always falls to an individual or small group of individuals. We should highlight this on billing documents, instead of "please pay XYZ hospital" the individual accountable for the largest share of the bill should be named: Dr. X is requesting payment of $500,000.
- programmertote 6y ago
  100% this. I wrote a separate comment in this thread cautioning people that this doctor, despite this charitable act, is probably not as charitable as we might think from reading a news article. If we dig deep into his clinics' billing practices, we might see lots and lots of bogus charges billed to the insurance companies (some of which might have to be paid by the patients with high deductible/co-pay in their insurance plan).
  - Railsify 6y ago
    ::fistbump:: The amount he wrote of was surely small compared to what he billed over his career. He also probably booked a loss after the write-off and claimed a larger amount to be returned on his taxes.
pulse7 6y ago
It is shocking that this is news! This should be normal and expected behavior and not news!
- hn2fast 6y ago
  No, this should never have to happen. Medical professionals are certainly well-compensated, but direct providers of care receive less than 15% of healthcare revenues. It shouldn't be expected for doctors to personally pay off medical debts, they shouldn't exist in the first place!
  - pulse7 6y ago
    You are right! But I meant another thing: it should be normal that if somebody can not pay you back and that you have enough money, that you should forgive them...
stopFalse 6y ago
How nice that the doctor living in a mansion forgives debt. The medical cartels caused this and benefit from this.
gigatexal 6y ago
What this doctor did is amazing. I hope one day in America’s future there’s a time when such amazing gestures are relics of the past because we have care that works for everyone. Other than in cases of smoking or second hand smoke or exposure to other carcinogens nobody willfully seeks out cancer. So the idea that it wouldn’t be covered 100% is just silly to me. Is it 100% covered in places like Germany or the UK or Canada?
ballenf 6y ago
if you’re wondering why doctors don’t do this regularly, they can actually get into trouble with insurance companies if they have a policy of not collecting or forgiving copays. There have been a few very high profile lab companies that have been prosecuted for this exact practice. TrueHealth was a recent one. The media coverage will characterize the company as fraudulent. The whole insurance system is corrupt to the core. Maybe those lab companies weren’t perfect but their real sin was just shining light on the broken system.
ykevinator 6y ago
This paints him like a hero, but he has enjoyed this artificial pricing for his whole career that has surely made him rich beyond his wildest dreams. The supply curve for his services is artificially constrained by his union, the AMA, which keeps the supply to about a tenth of what it could be. This keeps salaries high and the docs happily pay their union dues. We have a system problem that no one wants to talk a out and it is the AMA which sets quotas for doctors based on salary goals not skills or willingness.
qmmmur 6y ago
Sounds like it wasn't worth the price tag.
baldeagle 6y ago
The really messed up thing about this is the tax implications. The doctor gets a write off for his 'losses'; his tax bill it lower. The patients are subject to paying tax on this as-if it were income (because they received $X of debt cancellation). Their tax bills will go up.
- duckfang 6y ago
  So, can I go around writing "Debt forgiveness bills", take that off my taxes, and report them as "debt reconciliation income"? What allows them to make up magic numbers for a price?
  - lancepioch 6y ago
    Tax fraud is a felony. If morality doesn't stop a person from doing what's wrong, then usually the law (and its repercussions) does.
frobozz 6y ago
Illness is neither an indulgence for which people have to pay nor an offence for which they should be penalised, but a misfortune the cost of which should be shared by the community.
danaliv 6y ago
Headlines like these always read like "Man stops kicking puppy" to me.

Setting aside the wider context of healthcare, that’s a lot of debt for a business to cancel. What do the final books look like for this particular cancer treatment centre in Arkansas? Is $650k the entire profit they made over 30 years, or what they’d make in three months’?

jmcgough 6y ago

Perhaps I'm being too cynical, but accounts in collections are typically sold at about 4% value. They'd expect to get about 26k back from that debt. Perhaps they felt the good PR was worth that much?

DharmaPolice 6y ago
He's closed his practice so I'm not sure why he would care that much about the value of the PR? You're right that he's probably "only" written off a fraction of the headline amount but that doesn't feel like it matters much in this context.
deleted 6y ago
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philliphaydon 6y ago
> Dr Omar Atiq closed his cancer treatment centre in Arkansas last year after nearly 30 years in business. If he closed up then good PR is worthless is it not? Also debt can be collected at a fee, or sold at a loss. He probably wanted to collect the 600k but when he got calls from the collection agency about the inability to pay he decided it wasn't worth it. That's my understanding.
whoisjuan 6y ago
I mean, you’re not wrong. But this outcome is far from covering his losses. Being charitable isn’t always a give all, take none situation. In this case is clear that there’s some positive outcome for the doctor by forgiving debts. This doctor gets some positive PR, can write off this as a loss for tax purposes and the patients are relieved from their debts. Seems like a win-win for a hopeless situation. So
cbanek 6y ago
I also wonder if it's different for tax purposes? Not sure if it's considered a loss or a donation at this point, but it's probably good to at least get it off the books if they are shutting down.

starpilot 6y ago

He has done more good than legions of software engineers who make multiples of his income.

bitcharmer 6y ago
You can argue that software engineers who implemented avionics software that keeps airplanes safe or created thermostat-controlling software to reduce waste of energy and greenhouse gasses contributed even more given the scale of the applications. I have no idea what the point of your comment is though.
MrGilbert 6y ago
He has done more good than legions of software engineers who make multiples of his income. He has done more good than legions of CEOs who make multiples of his income. So... what's the point?
muzani 6y ago
I wish I had $650k to forgive. I've forgiven debts for a total of about $3300, but there's still that guy who owes $10k and told me 3 years ago that he'd pay me once he gets his BMW repaired.
imgabe 6y ago
He's an oncologist who was able to shrug and write off $650k of money he was owed. I'm pretty sure his income is multiples of the average non-FAANG software engineer. He was running his own practice so low to mid 7-figures would not be out of the question.
- csharptwdec19 6y ago
  Yep, I wouldn't be surprised if the tax write-offs for this made the 'real' impact far less.
throwe4234234 6y ago
I'm sure all of can do pro-bono consulting and say that that cost a gajillion dollars as well.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

gos_abhi 6y ago

BBC is just pakistani muslim mouthpiece, there are many doctors who waive of bills. A 4% value debt of 650k is promoted as a huge deal. If you investigate carefully, you will find that the same doctor funded terrorists who killed americans all over the world.

Areading314 6y ago

One of the most unfair characteristics of US healthcare is that if the health insurance company does not cover a claim, then the patient is responsible for the payment. It is unrealistic in practice for a patient to know or understand the process by which claims are made (since they are made by an error prone and disinterested provider administrator, and are made in a non-transparent and highly complex way), and also unrealistic for a patient to be able to do anything about a denied claim, since there is virtually no competition in the market for health insurance, and because a patient would almost never have the means to sue a health insurance company for damages. All this creates a very poor system that rewards administrators and shareholders at the expense of patients.

shakezula 6y ago
And even if you can contest the denial, it can take days to months to get it back, meanwhile you’re shouldered with the burden of paying full price for your treatment with the _hope_ that they’ll reimburse you later. My fiancée has cancer, and we regularly joke that dealing with insurance companies is worse than the actual stage 3 cancer she has. They constantly deny her coverage for medications she’s been on for years, they will randomly require new tests to make sure she still has cancer (megalolz), they’ll decide they don’t want to cover procedures just for fun until we call and argue with a representative for a few hours and then all of a sudden it’s a “billing mistake” that can be reversed. It’s a racket, plain and simple. Medical care should never be tied to personal wealth, period.
- FpUser 6y ago
  >"It’s a racket, plain and simple. Medical care should never be tied to personal wealth, period." In agreement. Still Government covered medical care has their own methods of avoiding / delaying procedures. In the end it all comes down to money.
  - simonh 6y ago
    You may not have meant it to come across this way, but "The alternative isn't absolutely perfect in every way, therefore both options are equivalent" isn't a useful contribution.

Pfhreak 6y ago

This is a prime example of a feel good story that is papering over systemic problems. We're meant to read this and think this doctor is a good person (and they are, at least for this act) rather than, "how is it possible there was this much medical debt for cancer treatment to forgive?" Yes, debt forgiveness is great and something we can all do as mutual aid, but we also need to acknowledge that the deeply flawed idea that healthcare should be a "marketplace" rather than just a baseline good for everyone is the real story here.

unishark 6y ago
It was for 200 people. Works out to about $3k per person on average.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Which is a fortune to many (most?) Americans. That's like 5% of the median income. And these people just had cancer, so it's less likely they've been able to hold down steady work.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    That's less than most Americans spend on food per year, without which you die.
a1371 6y ago
It's amazing that their kindness has touched so many lives but yes, the need for it could have been avoided in the first place.
arcticbull 6y ago
Frankly it seems like the doctor got screwed out of his pay by the system too. He should be as mad at US healthcare as his now bankrupt patients. Nothing about this feels good.
unabst 6y ago
Exactly. If that was the debt at the end of his practice, just imagine how much debt he bestowed during the 30 years it ran. I wonder how many patients went bankrupt... seriously, with the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US being medical. But that wouldn't be a story. That's just every clinic in the USA. And who wants to be reminded of that?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

amitport 6y ago

Why is this an article? People and organizations (even banks) and governments erase debt all the time. Sometimes it's from kindness, sometimes for PR, usually because they're unable to collect it. You can't really tell the difference among the cases.

hliyan 6y ago
I'm a long time HN reader interested mostly in tech content, but I was happy to hear this story. Yes, it speaks to a systemic issue. Yes, there are many others doing this. This is one person basically giving up half-a-million dollars. I worry about a world where a story about that needs justification.
- efwfwef 6y ago
  I worry about a world where we read this, and we feel good about ourselves, and we forget that people live without healthcare.
- amitport 6y ago
  Yes, how the debt was created is interesting. I'm having trouble with the framing of the article in relation to "forgiving" a debt.
throwe4234234 6y ago
"We can't buildings because we ran out of inches" The whole monetary system is a joke, no not that it's evil, just that our (and govt.) attitude to it is so medieval.
e_y_ 6y ago
John Oliver's Last Week Tonight bought and forgave $15M of medical debt for $60k (probably deemed uncollectible) as part of a segment about the debt collection industry. And because on paper it was a bigger giveaway than Oprah's "Everybody gets a car" giveaway.
- gorgoiler 6y ago

fraggle_sock 6y ago

The only real thing this story presents is a reminder of how fucked up the US healthcare system is. It's barbaric, backwards and uncivil that medical debt even exists. The US government really needs to get over its slavish devotion to capitalism and implement a single-payer healthcare system that is free at the point of use for all. The hundreds of billions of dollars they dish out each year on killing people would be much better put to use in healing people.

globular-toast 6y ago
Capitalism is great where choice exists. Capitalism means each individual can choose how to allocate his resources based on the market at the time. I might decide, for example, that owning a car is currently too expensive and I'd rather shift that allocation towards owning a house. It's my choice. Healthcare is not a choice. Nobody who discovers they are critically ill examines the market and decides it is not worth allocating resources to it. Once you're ill, you're all in. No choice. The only thing that makes capitalism good is gone. But everything that makes it bad is still there.

efwfwef 6y ago

Good for that patient, what about the other patients who didn't get that chance?

nether 6y ago
They didn't get the chance, just like I didn't get the chance for this and a million other benefits. The trolley ran them over but we can still divert it to prevent harming others.
mulmen 6y ago
It was 200 patients.

pcurve 6y ago

Sure this is mostly PR not just for doctor but also for the collection agency. But the outcome was positive. Everyone wins.

efwfwef 6y ago
What about the people who cannot pay their medical bills? Or who cannot get medical care due to the cost? They're winning too?
- rlt 6y ago
  What about them? They’re not the subjects of the article.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Their debt was forgiven after the doctor realized he couldn't squeeze blood from a stone.

atmosx 6y ago

A good question would be what can be done to fix healthcare in the US? My understanding is that most voters don't support universal healthcare. IIRC even Obamacare was labeled as controversial. Current model costs way more, the model is clearly broken, why there is no pressure to fix it? ps. I don't want to get political or anything by mentioning Obamacare. I'm genuinely curious because the problems of the current healthcare system are very well known and discussed for at least 20 years.

Chris2048 6y ago
> even Obamacare was labeled as controversial Obama lied about it: https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obamas-whoppers/ https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obamas-whoppers/ Also, some like to point at European countries (e.g. France) as proof that universal healthcare works, ignoring that a) some of those countries are very different from the US, and b) even the "successful" ones aren't proven viable for the future, i.e. rising costs. If you want to improve things, how? The money has to come from somewhere, and so far may of the plans punish those that already have health plans. Some administration needs the balls to truly reform healthcare laws - but that's one hell of a fight, especially while concurrently fighting all the other issues/culture wars at the moment.
- JimTheMan 6y ago
  They've proven cheaper and more effective in other countries for decades... Healthcare costs are rising everywhere as well, it alone isn't enough to somehow wipe away the fact the US pays about double for worse care.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    Decades isn't long enough. If Healthcare costs are rising everywhere, then no-one has a stable solution. And I'm talking about universal healthcare, not American healthcare; the difference being that there are more than one factors that goes into the end-result of American healthcare, so if you start talking about universal specifically and then switch to American outcomes, you are implying the one follows from the other, and the burden is on you that that outcome is purely due to that one factor (and not, say, a culture of litigation; or cultures of corporate lobbying/corruption etc). I'd also wonder which part of my post drew downvotes. I hope it's not that I dared suggest that Obama lied. But that was one reason it was controversial, and that future efforts at something similar are now damaged; who'd trust a similar proposition when even wunderkind Obama couldn't be straight about the deal?

nobrains 6y ago

Sorry, if this is another angle, but I would have been more happy if instead of mentioning US doctor (or in addition to mentioning it), they would have mentioned his traits viz. "muslim" and "pakistani-origin". (I am happy none the less) Muslims are currently vilified, and Pakistani isn't in the best books right now. So, a little nod to someone who did good being muslim and pakistani-origin goes a long way to neutralize stereo types, without taking away the good work from anyone. He studied at University of Peshawar. You know, the same Peshawar where OBL was found (edit: sorry, OBL was found in Abbotabad). Throwing some positive light there will help the millions (Pakistan is a very populous country) raise their self-worth. And regarding erasing debt, you have to realize that it is not easy, especially when family is involved. There will be children who will have wanted to have that money for themselves, and slightly poorer relatives who would have said "why not us first". So, helping strangers (well, client, but still not relatives or friends) should be applauded whenever it happens. Also, direct payments (or debt relief) is the best. No leak into admin expenses.

ryzvonusef 6y ago
OBL was found in Abbottabad /minor_nitpick
- formalsystems 6y ago
  I was searching crunchbase for a Pakistani company named OBL founded in Peshawar, when I finally caught the bin Laden reference.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    It was nine years ago. Remember that there are people voting in the recent US election born after 9/11; the forever war in the middle east has been going on for a while.
- nobrains 6y ago
  You are right. Corrected. Thanks.
6y ago

yawaworht1978 6y ago

The bbc tries to appear neutral they will often avoid telling the origins of people , for good or bad deeds. Very kind of this doctor but this should never happen in the first place. Probably will not happen in my life time but the US should simply implement a health care system the well developed EU nations. Cancer and sickness are realities of life but paying 10s of thousands for hospital bills is simply out of scope for the vast majority of people. I had a US friend who was a low digits millionaire and a renal failure. He ended up losing all the money for medication and eventually his life. Now compare that to a low or no income person. Medical aid should not be granted put of pity or mercy in this age. We have covid and that is affecting all, suddenly vaccines and rollouts are approved in record times. When it hits home it really hurts, I suppose. The loud mouths who used to shout "not my problem" are much less noisy these days(bar the ones with questionable mental stability who think the virus is fake etc). All the capitalism and its ceremony is fine, but without a healthy body or society, who will generate that wealth?

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> Cancer and sickness are realities of life but paying 10s of thousands for hospital bills is simply out of scope for the vast majority of people. I had a US friend who was a low digits millionaire and a renal failure. He ended up losing all the money for medication and eventually his life. Now compare that to a low or no income person. Medical aid should not be granted put of pity or mercy in this age. sickness and death is/are terrible but for much of human history we have had to accept them. now people can live but then have to repay the advanced technology medical complex that saved them with corresponding functional labor and you think it's a bug? its measured in tens of thousands of dollars but maybe 1) its worth that much or 2) it costs that much because of all the freeloaders (not sure what value-neutral term you want me to use for people who consume healthcare but don't pay for it) that have to be paid for. likely both are somewhat true. I'm sorry your friend died. Do you think his loss would be any less traumatic if he had been provided a government healthcare system access where one day he just wasn't "worth" the medicine it would take to treat him? Surely you understand that all systems involve rationing scarce resources and its reasonable for at least some people to use markets because of their proven success at rewarding commodification of value. > All the capitalism and its ceremony is fine, but without a healthy body or society, who will generate that wealth? Our perspective is that capitalism is the medicine that society needs and has not tried. Surely you agree that regulations proliferate and people are fat, sick, unhealthy, and exploited.

known 6y ago

aka altruism

tomaskafka 6y ago

$650k gets you something like measuring of temperature and prescription of Paralen in the US, right? (I am always amazed how an act or treatment that costs around $20 in Europe costs thousands of dollars in the US and no one seems to mind.)

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> no one seems to mind Oh we mind alright, we just don't have effective means of changing the system.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- KSteffensen 6y ago
  Not as long as the US citizenry as as afraid of taxes and 'socialism' as they are.
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    We’re not interested in exchanging one set of pigs for another.
chasd00 6y ago
it doesn't, that's just what the bill says. The $500 aspirin stories are about what's printed on the bill but that is no where close to what is actually paid. This is a huge problem IMO and i mentioned it upthread. The prices printed on bills are never what's paid (unless some poor patient thinks that's what they actually owe). It's all negotiable. Taking away price negotiating and enforcing that what is on the bill is what is expected to be paid would help a lot. These ridiculous numbers would go away and people would actually know what their healthcare actually costs. edit: here's something to try, let's say your in teh US and you have a prescription card that does not cover brand medications, only generic. Goto your pharmacist and ask them how much you'll have to pay to get the brand. Then, offer to pay them half that amount in cash. You'll be surprised at the results.

29athrowaway 6y ago

This episode of "Adam ruins everything" covers healthcare insurance providers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8 My takeaway is that the system is calibrated to aggresively punish people without insurance.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
The system was calibrated to create as much friction to receiving healthcare if you are poorer (usually meant you didn’t have insurance pre ACA). Medicaid is the “insurance” for poor people, which pays healthcare providers on the low end and a as a result is not accepted as much. The more friction that it creates for poorer people, the less healthcare they will use, and that helps keep taxes low.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  Interesting perspective. Although preventive care is usually cheaper for society than the alternatives IMO. I've heard in some countries, e.g.: the UK, you get summoned by your doctor for preventive care, and this approach helps reducing the overall cost of healthcare.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Preventative care is not subject to deductibles (i.e. free for people with insurance) after ACA, such as annual wellness exams, vaccinations, etc. People just don’t want to do it, or if they do, they don’t want to give up their sugar/carbs/alcohol/sat fats/sedentary lifestyle habits. Which is probably the cause for the majority of chronic healthcare spending.
    - rsynnott 6y ago
      > Which is probably the cause for the majority of chronic healthcare spending. I doubt it's a _huge_ factor, honestly. The fatter Western European nations (UK and Ireland, for instance) don't have unduly expensive systems; Ireland spends about 5k per capita, the UK about $4k per capita. Much thinner France spends $4.6k. Now, France _does_ outperform both the UK and Ireland on most metrics, but not by a huge amount.

seesawtron 6y ago

As noble as it sounds, I failed to comprehend from the title how could a doctor have the authority to forgive half a million dollars alone when most of the costs go to the hospital for services and infrastructure. But in this case, the doctor decided to close his entire treatment centre. That is certainly a relief for the patients who have huge debts but not so great for the future patients who could have been treated at the centre? "There are no solutions, only trade-offs"

lotsofpulp 6y ago
I have business partners who are doctors that regularly earn half a million a year. The ones that own (successful) practices earn even more. See: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overview-6012684 https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overvie... https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specialty/ https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specia...
- seesawtron 6y ago
  Do you imply that the doctor in this case could just easily open another clinic? Or that he doesn't need to because of enouch savings?
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Neither. You wrote: >I failed to comprehend from the title how could a doctor have the authority to forgive half a million dollars alone when most of the costs go to the hospital for services and infrastructure. But in this case, the doctor decided to close his entire treatment centre. I presumed you were not aware that the doctor himself (or his personal business) was capable of being owed $650k. So I was pointing out that doctors (or the businesses they own) do earn enough to be able to be owed $650k that they can forgive. Now that I re-read your comment, I'm actually not sure what you meant or where hospitals came into play. This doctor closed his business because he retired, it had nothing to do with the debt he was owed. And since he (or his business) was the entity that was owed $650k, it seems well within his rights to choose not to pursue payment for the debt.

isoblvck 6y ago

this feel good story is more like an expose on the hellscape that is paying for medical care

trynewideas 6y ago

Some context: the clinic (technically named the Arkansas Cancer Institute, not the Arkansas Cancer Clinic as in the story) faced lawsuits in 2018-19 after more than 50 patients tested positive for an undisclosed bacterial infection linked to saline flushes on infusion ports.[1][2] The results of the lawsuit weren't reported, but the clinic closed in February 2020, about a year after the firm behind the suit pursued class-action status. [1] https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/feb/03/at-first-pine-bluff-clinic-outbreak-a-m/ https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/feb/03/at-first-pin... [2] https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/jan/13/pb-clinic-lawsuit-adds-two-plaintiffs-2/ https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/jan/13/pb-clinic-la...

rozab 6y ago
Some evidence that such infections are preventable and thus are caused by malpractice: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/9/8905959/medical-harm-infection-prevention https://www.vox.com/2015/7/9/8905959/medical-harm-infection-... (yes, vox do hit the mark occasionally)
programmertote 6y ago
Glad to see someone pointing out the context. Certainly this doctor and his family did a great thing by forgoing the debt owed by his patients. BUT, my wife worked and volunteered at a few private clinics around NY metro areas and I would wager that this doctor's clinic already makes a lot of money (2-3x that 650K) every year if not more. As an example, one of the primary care physician's clinic that my wife (who is now in medical residency) used to work in NY Chinatown (a lot of patients there are on Medicaid/Medicare, etc.) still raked in at least $600K/year. The doctor sees ~40-50 patients a day. The doctor would write one or two bogus diagnoses to inflate the billing codes to make up for the 'loss in revenue' due to treating patients on Medicaid or simply making each patient encounter worth it. Another example from a different clinic, where my wife used to volunteer, put on phone consultation fee in the bill when the patient called in to check about his appointment and asked a side question about one of his medication. It literally took that psychiatrist less than a minute to answer that call, but the patient is going to be footing ~$50-$100 from his/her co-pay. In summary, some of these private clinics (not to mention the hospitals and we have read about their b.s. billing practices many times) are billing patients bogus stuff on almost every patient encounter. Some of them justify this by saying it's not the patient who pays the bill (but in fact, some patients with high deductibles/co-pay have to) or that they need to make up for their expected earning of running a private clinic (which is better than what a general physician would earn--$250K/year on average--at a hospital).

cataphract 6y ago

Doesn't this debt forgiveness mean the patients are going to be hit with a tax bill for the amount forgiven this year?

cldellow 6y ago
I'm not an accountant (or an American), but I don't think so. USC 108(e)(2) says: > No income shall be realized from the discharge of indebtedness to the extent that payment of the liability would have given rise to a deduction. And because medical bills are deductible when itemized, I suspect they would qualify for this exemption. [1]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/108 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/108
- danaliv 6y ago
  Medical expenses are only deductible once you've exceeded a certain percentage of your income. I've never been able to deduct anything substantial, and I've had some pretty outrageous medical bills. (Cancer survivor.) And that phrase "to the extent" reads to me like it means any amount forgiven that doesn't meet the threshold is considered income. One year I was billed $40k for radiation. You know, a thing I needed or else I would've died. I managed to negotiate that down to $25k. (While having cancer!) You'd think that would meet the threshold for deduction, but there's a catch: you can't deduct the bill, you can only deduct what you've actually paid. So if you do a payment plan, which of course I did because how the hell else was I going to pay that, now that bill is spread out too much to be eligible for deduction. The US medical system is fucked, full stop. We wouldn't tolerate someone holding a gun to your head and saying "I'll put the gun away for $40k." And if you do manage to get treatment, now you're trapped in a game with rules only slightly more complicated than Dungeons & Dragons - and the DM is a sociopath.

Maksadbek 6y ago

It is very good that hospitals give debts for patients. I live in Uzbekistan and my father has pancreas cancer. There are no good oncologists in my country. I've contacted many hospitals worldwide and most of them asking about 10K USD and we must pay 80% of the bills before they start curing my father and of course I can't afford this amount of money and I have no any option to get it. I am ready to be in debt for any amount if they could try to do smth and make my father's last days a bit better for him.

simple_phrases 6y ago
This is the same case in the US. Nobody is getting cancer treatment without insurance or the ability to pay. Hospitals in the US only need to stabilize an uninsured patient, and that doesn't include treating cancer or chronic conditions.
- Maksadbek 6y ago
  :/

Railsify 6y ago

I think there is an important point to be highlighted: We often blame the system for being expensive but in this case an individual doctor was able to say we will not collect. These decisions to charge patients a literal fortune for treatment probably always falls to an individual or small group of individuals. We should highlight this on billing documents, instead of "please pay XYZ hospital" the individual accountable for the largest share of the bill should be named: Dr. X is requesting payment of $500,000.

programmertote 6y ago
100% this. I wrote a separate comment in this thread cautioning people that this doctor, despite this charitable act, is probably not as charitable as we might think from reading a news article. If we dig deep into his clinics' billing practices, we might see lots and lots of bogus charges billed to the insurance companies (some of which might have to be paid by the patients with high deductible/co-pay in their insurance plan).
- Railsify 6y ago
  ::fistbump:: The amount he wrote of was surely small compared to what he billed over his career. He also probably booked a loss after the write-off and claimed a larger amount to be returned on his taxes.

pulse7 6y ago

It is shocking that this is news! This should be normal and expected behavior and not news!

hn2fast 6y ago
No, this should never have to happen. Medical professionals are certainly well-compensated, but direct providers of care receive less than 15% of healthcare revenues. It shouldn't be expected for doctors to personally pay off medical debts, they shouldn't exist in the first place!
- pulse7 6y ago
  You are right! But I meant another thing: it should be normal that if somebody can not pay you back and that you have enough money, that you should forgive them...

stopFalse 6y ago

How nice that the doctor living in a mansion forgives debt. The medical cartels caused this and benefit from this.

gigatexal 6y ago

What this doctor did is amazing. I hope one day in America’s future there’s a time when such amazing gestures are relics of the past because we have care that works for everyone. Other than in cases of smoking or second hand smoke or exposure to other carcinogens nobody willfully seeks out cancer. So the idea that it wouldn’t be covered 100% is just silly to me. Is it 100% covered in places like Germany or the UK or Canada?

ballenf 6y ago

if you’re wondering why doctors don’t do this regularly, they can actually get into trouble with insurance companies if they have a policy of not collecting or forgiving copays. There have been a few very high profile lab companies that have been prosecuted for this exact practice. TrueHealth was a recent one. The media coverage will characterize the company as fraudulent. The whole insurance system is corrupt to the core. Maybe those lab companies weren’t perfect but their real sin was just shining light on the broken system.

ykevinator 6y ago

This paints him like a hero, but he has enjoyed this artificial pricing for his whole career that has surely made him rich beyond his wildest dreams. The supply curve for his services is artificially constrained by his union, the AMA, which keeps the supply to about a tenth of what it could be. This keeps salaries high and the docs happily pay their union dues. We have a system problem that no one wants to talk a out and it is the AMA which sets quotas for doctors based on salary goals not skills or willingness.

qmmmur 6y ago

Sounds like it wasn't worth the price tag.

baldeagle 6y ago

The really messed up thing about this is the tax implications. The doctor gets a write off for his 'losses'; his tax bill it lower. The patients are subject to paying tax on this as-if it were income (because they received $X of debt cancellation). Their tax bills will go up.

duckfang 6y ago
So, can I go around writing "Debt forgiveness bills", take that off my taxes, and report them as "debt reconciliation income"? What allows them to make up magic numbers for a price?
- lancepioch 6y ago
  Tax fraud is a felony. If morality doesn't stop a person from doing what's wrong, then usually the law (and its repercussions) does.

frobozz 6y ago

Illness is neither an indulgence for which people have to pay nor an offence for which they should be penalised, but a misfortune the cost of which should be shared by the community.

danaliv 6y ago

Headlines like these always read like "Man stops kicking puppy" to me.