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Valley money types: “We’re going to Texas because California has red tape, overregulation, and general dysfunction.” Also Valley money types: “Texas needs to r

Valley money types: “We’re going to Texas because California has red tape, overregulation, and general dysfunction.” Also Valley money types: “Texas needs to regulate this exploitive type of labor contract California has banned since 1872.” When people stomp off for greener pastures they maybe should consider what good things they might be taking for granted and leaving behind.

sobellian 6y ago
Or put another way, the talent need not follow the money types to Texas. There are plenty of cheap places in California where you still aren't compelled to sell your soul to your employer - and salaries suggest that talent in tech already had plenty of leverage before remote working even entered the equation. I see a sad pattern where government officials often conflate free markets with sound markets. They certainly overlap in many areas but non-competes are a classic market failure.
- hhggfdss 6y ago
  There's plenty of talent already here in Texas; we don't need talent to follow the money from anywhere thanks Although it's welcome to if it will, and that's why Texas is home to America's most diverse city, Houston
  - ryder9 6y ago
    lmao
  - aNoob7000 6y ago
    I'm not trying to make this political, but with all the migration to Texas it will be interesting to see if it remains a strongly Republican state in the future. I live in Georgia and I can see the demographics changing quite a lot.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      IMO the idea of red states and blue states doesn't make a lot of sense. Remove the state boundaries and the real defining characteristic for red/blue is urban/rural. It need not be any more complicated than that.
      - hindsightbias 6y ago
        In TX it is more complicated. The cities and farms were blue until all those folks from out-of-state moved into new suburbs and retired to exurbs. The suburbs have controlled TX for about 30 years. What's left of real rural folk doesn't matter except in the local statehouse.
      - api 6y ago
        It’s a shocking almost perfect correlation, and it’s intensifying. The suburbs are starting to turn blue, especially around large cities, leaving the Republican Party an almost pure rural party.
      - pc86 6y ago
        I mean, if you ignore the Electoral College, and Senate seat allocations, sure.
        rootusrootus 6y ago
        I mean at the voter level. How it gets expressed in power is certainly an artifact of our political system. For better or worse, our system is tilted towards rural power.
      - dfxm12 6y ago
        Look at Texas' 2nd congressional district [0]. Gerrymandered districts are a more defining characteristic for red/blue (as is the electoral college). 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas%27s_2nd_congressional_district https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas%27s_2nd_congressional_di...
        6y ago
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    Sorry, you're suggesting there's the same level of technical talent in ATX as in the Bay?
    - igetspam 6y ago
      Define "level." Is there the same caliber of talent? Absolutely. Are there an equal number? Not even close. Is the ratio of tech to non tech in the ATX area the same as the bay area? Probably not but it's growing. More and more of the people I've met here are in tech. This has continued to go up as more subdivisions are completed. The new tax laws that screwed over CA residents have definitely increased the number of CA migrants, as has the the increase in remote work from COVID. We have fast internet, no state tax and cheaper property. (What you get for half million here vs CA is amazing and it's nowhere near as nice as it was just five years ago). Added bonus and what nobody here will tell you (and TX natives don't see) is that the Hill Country is absolutely beautiful. I was shocked when I moves here. I didn't know it but it's a huge wedding destination because it's so pretty. (Being in CA leaves an ignorant taste in your mouth about TX). So no, it's not the bay area and we don't have parity right noq. As a bay area native, I would never go back. (Full disclosure: TX will get better than it is now but not that I'm a parent of a toddler, we're probably leaving and headed to New England. That's a discussion for a different topic though.)
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - Dracophoenix 6y ago
        Why the move to New England?
  - asiachick 6y ago
    I don't know what criteria is being used to claim Texas is American's most diverse city but simple checking the census data shows that is provably false. ALSO, WTF is up with the whole mixing in Hispanic in such a strange way in the census? Seems super fishy like someone wanted to paint a certain kind of picture but if they just plainly list ethnicities they don't get to make the story they want to tell.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      It’s handled that way because many Hispanic people don’t consider “Hispanic” to be a race. That is to say, Afro-Latinos and White Hispanic people often don’t consider ourselves multiracial; my racial heritage is independent of the fact that my ancestors happened to be located in Mexico at one point.
      - lupire 6y ago
        What's a racial heritage though? Appalachians don't have the same racial heritage as more recent family immigrants from Russia or Ireland, but all are Caucasian, and Black descendants of slaves don't have the same racial heritage as Somali or Kenyan immigrants.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      The DC area, for instance, seems obviously more diverse than Houston.
      - kthejoker2 6y ago
        "Obviously" in what way? Houston's population is 25% foreign born, with an almost even 4-way split between Black, Asian, Hispanic, and White residents. We're also more socioeconomically balanced and diverse. https://wallethub.com/edu/most-diverse-cities/12690#detailed https://wallethub.com/edu/most-diverse-cities/12690#detailed
        letitbeirie 6y ago
  - mapgrep 6y ago
    As an ex Texan, I understand the pride behind this statement. But I think what seems to be the underlying premise — we don’t need to change to attract outsiders - captures an essential historic difference between California and Texas culture. It’s dangerous to speak too broadly — california has had its reactionary periods - but on balance I find it historically much more eager to change and evolve, especially socially, in response to outside and unconventional ideas and people. The Bay Area in particular (a tech center) is famous for this. Yes Texas is demographically changing rapidly but the culture of a place changes relatively slowly.
- api 6y ago
  Also means that some simple reform in Texas could remove one of the few downsides. Meanwhile California cannot build anything. Everything is either blocked by NIMBYs or like the high speed rail fails due to corruption and incompetence. I felt like the failure of the rail project from LA to SF was kind of a milestone showing just how dysfunctional the state is. California spent more money not building rail than it costs in many countries to complete a rail line.
  - djcapelis 6y ago
    I feel like your comment is spot on for the usual Texas vs California dialog: High speed rail in Texas: 0 miles built, zero miles under construction, projects stuck in regulation waiting to begin work[1] High speed rail in California: Active construction, most ambitious real HSR project in the country, project delay by regulatory hurdles… mostly because conservatives tried to sue it to death and failed. Texans on their progress vs California: California is a failure. This whole meme is because a couple struggling Silicon Valley companies who stopped being able to make it in SV decided to relocate to Texas to go out to pasture along with a couple rich people. Y’all think that being a launch site for SpaceX, which remains a company with a California headquarters, and a majority California positioned engineering team is hot stuff. Y’all celebrate how many tech jobs come to Texas when California companies open branch offices for support and secondary roles in your state and crow about how you one upped the Californians as you landed those amazing customer support roles by selling corporations pieces of Texans and the time of your citizens for cheaper. Then y’all lecture us about how you just got HP’s enterprise spinoff, when we have the actual HP… y’all need to stop claiming to be doing better at areas you’re doing worse on if you want to figure out how to actually do better. [1] https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11/17/houston-dallas-bullet-train-permits/ https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11/17/houston-dallas-bulle...
    - Alupis 6y ago
      The California HSR project is dead, in case you didn't know. It ran over budget nearly 3 times the initial projected cost estimates, and ultimately is going between Merced and Bakersfield instead of the original SF to LA (less than 200 miles of track) - two cities practically no person commutes between. Overall, the project was a massive failure, and a political party that's in the minority isn't the reason.
- eplanit 6y ago
  "There are plenty of cheap places in California" Where in California, the central valley?
  - deaddodo 6y ago
    If you think places like Orange County, Ventura, the Inland Empire, Sacramento, etc are expensive; you’re going to be sorely disappointed when you leave to any similarly sized metro elsewhere.
- mapgrep 6y ago
  Yes, California is a very big state and I could imagine for example the Central Valley reaping many more benefits from any persistent remote work or company relocation trend than other states. Hadn’t considered this possibility but it makes a lot of sense.
  - NDizzle 6y ago
    Having just left the Central Valley of California, living there for 7 years working remotely the whole time, I don’t think it’ll work out this way. If you want to see overtaxed areas where you absolutely cannot see the benefits of your tax dollars, you’ll be right at home. Moving out of California is like getting an immediate 25% raise.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      If someone's fine with heat and they want to stay in that general area of the country, I'd probably steer them towards Nevada TBH.
      - NDizzle 6y ago
        I thought the same until I spent more time in Reno. The cost of living increased too much and the WIND is the worst thing about the area. Constant 40+ mph gusts. I don't know much about Vegas, perhaps it's better.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- linguae 6y ago
  I concur. I grew up in Sacramento and I'm contemplating buying a place there (I'm currently in Santa Cruz County; I'd love to stay here forever, but it is too expensive for me to buy unless I live in the mountains) and working remotely from there, though prices have risen considerably this year due to its popularity with Bay Area mega-commuters and remote workers. Sacramento has a lot going for it; it's a diverse metro area with a lot to do, and there are many nice, safe neighborhoods. I also like Sacramento's walkable central areas, though these areas are a bit pricey (they're an absolute bargain compared to the Bay Area, but they're more expensive than Sacramento's suburbs). Sacramento has a California State University campus (Sacramento State University), and University of California, Davis is only 15 minutes west of Downtown Sacramento. An alternative that I'm considering is Merced, which is roughly two hours from Silicon Valley. Merced is much smaller than Sacramento, so it lacks Sacramento's amenities and variety of neighborhoods. However, Merced is home to University of California, Merced, which opened in 2005. UC Merced has been expanding and is becoming more popular with students. While Merced does not yet have a college-town atmosphere (at least to me), Merced has the potential to develop this feel. Merced has the cheapest housing of all cities that host a UC campus (though Riverside comes close). A mortgage on a brand-new three-bedroom house in Merced is cheaper than the rent on a one-bedroom apartment in the Bay Area. Finally, I'm also considering some of Southern California's desert cities that are part of the greater Los Angeles metro area, such as Palmdale and Lancaster in the Antelope Valley as well as the Inland Empire area. These areas have relatively affordable housing yet are very close to Los Angeles and all of its amenities.
  - scruple 6y ago
    > ... Palmdale and Lancaster in the Antelope Valley as well as the Inland Empire area. These areas ... are very close to Los Angeles and all of its amenities. Have you lived in SoCal before? Because this reads as kind of naive about the traffic patterns down here. I'm not trying to discourage you or anything but there's a certain reality you have to be capable of accepting about driving distance to driving time in SoCal, otherwise you will be absolutely miserable living here.
    - linguae 6y ago
zarkov99 6y ago
Yes, they also should consider what part they had in browning the pasture they are leaving.
runawaybottle 6y ago
When will people ever learn, location location location. Texas ain’t it kids.
Mc91 6y ago
I got my current job when I got a good offer to relocate. When I eventually leave, I will either return home or move to the bay area. One of the reasons I would move out to the bay area would be the better noncompete and IP assignment legalities. I would like to code my own stuff at night or on weekends without worrying as much about all of this.
- jofer 6y ago
  CA's restrictions on what IP assignment agreements can claim is a _huge_ win for employees. I _really_ wish we had similar legislation here in TX. I think that's a much more important issue than non-competes, personally.
- kjksf 6y ago
  Non competes are a different thing than IP assignment. Non competes prevent an employer to forbid you to work for competitor after you leave (or they fire you). Non competes are non enforceable in CA. IP assignments (i.e. "what you do belong to us") is very much enforceable and very common. How it's enforced depends on the company, but by default the employer can claim ownership if you do your work on their time or using their resources (e.g. on a company's laptop). And they can drag you through courts even if it's all your time and your resources. If you work for Apple, you better not do any non-Apple work. At Google you can do open source work but you have to get a permission. So as far as IP assignment, CA is no different than TX.
  - Mc91 6y ago
    I thought California had better IP assignment laws than states like Texas ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208819 ), but it is not something I know about in full detail. I know California can can claim ownership if you do work on their time or using their resources. In other states the scope seems even wider. I should probably look into it more.
  - sxp 6y ago
    California law has special protections that help people who create a startup in their garage in the evenings while working at a company in the daytime: https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/lab/division-3/2870-2872/2870/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/lab/division-3/... As long as they don't use the employer's equipment nor work that they do for the employer or compete with the employer, they can own their own work. This is one of the key legal reasons CA spawns so many startups.
Alupis 6y ago
It's more of the "money types" have the money to pick up and move half-way across the nation at the drop of a hat, and not worry about trying to find a new job or housing, etc. A luxury the rest of us cannot afford. They are fleeing red tape, overregulation and general dysfunction, yes... along with things like a hypocritical governor[1] that crushes businesses seemingly at random[2], ludicrously high state income tax rates, property tax rates and sales tax rates[3], and half the state burning to the ground every year due to what our government tells us is Global Warming's fault, instead of decades of awfully misguided forestry management policy[4], a massive homeless problem that gets worse every year[5] and is consuming coveted public areas like Venice Beach[6], people defecating in the streets right in front of families[7], an electric grid that is turned off for millions of people when the wind blows too much[8] and also when the wind blows too little[9]... plus more. And then when our government officials are questioned about the "Exodus" they laugh and say, where are you going to go? The entire country has all these same problems you're complaining about!"[10] Which is absurdly false. There definitely are greener pastures in this massive country... perhaps Austin and/or Texas isn't it... but California isn't as good as it gets, at least certainly not any more. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/opinion/gavin-newsom-french-laundry-california.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/opinion/gavin-newsom-fren... [2] https://www.thewrap.com/closed-restaurant-owner-decries-hypocrisy-of-la-covid-19-orders-allowing-film-shoots/ https://www.thewrap.com/closed-restaurant-owner-decries-hypo... [3] https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/13/why-do-californians-pay-more-state-and-local-taxes-than-texans/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/13/why-do-californians-p... [4] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/04/why-everything-they-say-about-california-fires--including-that-climate-matters-most--is-wrong/?sh=3c2282e84cb6 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/04... [5] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/09/12/why-california-keeps-making-homelessness-worse/?sh=7c650a305a61 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/09/12... [6] https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/while-venice-beach-residents-under-lockdown-homeless-and-encampments-grow-and-thrive/ https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/while-venice-beach-res... [7] https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/mapping-san-franciscos-human-waste-challenge-132562-case-reports-since-2008/?sh=6c66daaf5ea5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/map... [8] https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article245549120.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article245549120.html [9] https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias-shift-from-natural-gas-to-solar-is-playing-a-role-in-rolling-blackouts https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias... [10] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/politics/jerry-brown-on-a-california-exodus-tell-me-where-are-you-going-to-go.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/politics/jerry-brown-o...
crazygringo 6y ago
You're making it black and white. It's entirely valid for people to want a middle ground. You can think California is too regulated and that Texas isn't regulated enough -- but it's much, much harder to repeal regulations than to create new ones. So it's entirely reasonable to see Texas as a location where you can implement the right regulations from scratch without going overboard.
clavalle 6y ago
Texas was pretty pro-employee when it came to non-competes until just recently.

sobellian 6y ago

Or put another way, the talent need not follow the money types to Texas. There are plenty of cheap places in California where you still aren't compelled to sell your soul to your employer - and salaries suggest that talent in tech already had plenty of leverage before remote working even entered the equation. I see a sad pattern where government officials often conflate free markets with sound markets. They certainly overlap in many areas but non-competes are a classic market failure.

hhggfdss 6y ago
There's plenty of talent already here in Texas; we don't need talent to follow the money from anywhere thanks Although it's welcome to if it will, and that's why Texas is home to America's most diverse city, Houston
- ryder9 6y ago
  lmao
- aNoob7000 6y ago
  I'm not trying to make this political, but with all the migration to Texas it will be interesting to see if it remains a strongly Republican state in the future. I live in Georgia and I can see the demographics changing quite a lot.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    IMO the idea of red states and blue states doesn't make a lot of sense. Remove the state boundaries and the real defining characteristic for red/blue is urban/rural. It need not be any more complicated than that.
    - hindsightbias 6y ago
      In TX it is more complicated. The cities and farms were blue until all those folks from out-of-state moved into new suburbs and retired to exurbs. The suburbs have controlled TX for about 30 years. What's left of real rural folk doesn't matter except in the local statehouse.
    - api 6y ago
      It’s a shocking almost perfect correlation, and it’s intensifying. The suburbs are starting to turn blue, especially around large cities, leaving the Republican Party an almost pure rural party.
    - pc86 6y ago
      I mean, if you ignore the Electoral College, and Senate seat allocations, sure.
      - rootusrootus 6y ago
        I mean at the voter level. How it gets expressed in power is certainly an artifact of our political system. For better or worse, our system is tilted towards rural power.
    - dfxm12 6y ago
      Look at Texas' 2nd congressional district [0]. Gerrymandered districts are a more defining characteristic for red/blue (as is the electoral college). 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas%27s_2nd_congressional_district https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas%27s_2nd_congressional_di...
      - 6y ago
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Sorry, you're suggesting there's the same level of technical talent in ATX as in the Bay?
  - igetspam 6y ago
    Define "level." Is there the same caliber of talent? Absolutely. Are there an equal number? Not even close. Is the ratio of tech to non tech in the ATX area the same as the bay area? Probably not but it's growing. More and more of the people I've met here are in tech. This has continued to go up as more subdivisions are completed. The new tax laws that screwed over CA residents have definitely increased the number of CA migrants, as has the the increase in remote work from COVID. We have fast internet, no state tax and cheaper property. (What you get for half million here vs CA is amazing and it's nowhere near as nice as it was just five years ago). Added bonus and what nobody here will tell you (and TX natives don't see) is that the Hill Country is absolutely beautiful. I was shocked when I moves here. I didn't know it but it's a huge wedding destination because it's so pretty. (Being in CA leaves an ignorant taste in your mouth about TX). So no, it's not the bay area and we don't have parity right noq. As a bay area native, I would never go back. (Full disclosure: TX will get better than it is now but not that I'm a parent of a toddler, we're probably leaving and headed to New England. That's a discussion for a different topic though.)
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Dracophoenix 6y ago
      Why the move to New England?
- asiachick 6y ago
  I don't know what criteria is being used to claim Texas is American's most diverse city but simple checking the census data shows that is provably false. ALSO, WTF is up with the whole mixing in Hispanic in such a strange way in the census? Seems super fishy like someone wanted to paint a certain kind of picture but if they just plainly list ethnicities they don't get to make the story they want to tell.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    It’s handled that way because many Hispanic people don’t consider “Hispanic” to be a race. That is to say, Afro-Latinos and White Hispanic people often don’t consider ourselves multiracial; my racial heritage is independent of the fact that my ancestors happened to be located in Mexico at one point.
    - lupire 6y ago
      What's a racial heritage though? Appalachians don't have the same racial heritage as more recent family immigrants from Russia or Ireland, but all are Caucasian, and Black descendants of slaves don't have the same racial heritage as Somali or Kenyan immigrants.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    The DC area, for instance, seems obviously more diverse than Houston.
    - kthejoker2 6y ago
      "Obviously" in what way? Houston's population is 25% foreign born, with an almost even 4-way split between Black, Asian, Hispanic, and White residents. We're also more socioeconomically balanced and diverse. https://wallethub.com/edu/most-diverse-cities/12690#detailed https://wallethub.com/edu/most-diverse-cities/12690#detailed
      - letitbeirie 6y ago
- mapgrep 6y ago
  As an ex Texan, I understand the pride behind this statement. But I think what seems to be the underlying premise — we don’t need to change to attract outsiders - captures an essential historic difference between California and Texas culture. It’s dangerous to speak too broadly — california has had its reactionary periods - but on balance I find it historically much more eager to change and evolve, especially socially, in response to outside and unconventional ideas and people. The Bay Area in particular (a tech center) is famous for this. Yes Texas is demographically changing rapidly but the culture of a place changes relatively slowly.
api 6y ago
Also means that some simple reform in Texas could remove one of the few downsides. Meanwhile California cannot build anything. Everything is either blocked by NIMBYs or like the high speed rail fails due to corruption and incompetence. I felt like the failure of the rail project from LA to SF was kind of a milestone showing just how dysfunctional the state is. California spent more money not building rail than it costs in many countries to complete a rail line.
- djcapelis 6y ago
  I feel like your comment is spot on for the usual Texas vs California dialog: High speed rail in Texas: 0 miles built, zero miles under construction, projects stuck in regulation waiting to begin work[1] High speed rail in California: Active construction, most ambitious real HSR project in the country, project delay by regulatory hurdles… mostly because conservatives tried to sue it to death and failed. Texans on their progress vs California: California is a failure. This whole meme is because a couple struggling Silicon Valley companies who stopped being able to make it in SV decided to relocate to Texas to go out to pasture along with a couple rich people. Y’all think that being a launch site for SpaceX, which remains a company with a California headquarters, and a majority California positioned engineering team is hot stuff. Y’all celebrate how many tech jobs come to Texas when California companies open branch offices for support and secondary roles in your state and crow about how you one upped the Californians as you landed those amazing customer support roles by selling corporations pieces of Texans and the time of your citizens for cheaper. Then y’all lecture us about how you just got HP’s enterprise spinoff, when we have the actual HP… y’all need to stop claiming to be doing better at areas you’re doing worse on if you want to figure out how to actually do better. [1] https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11/17/houston-dallas-bullet-train-permits/ https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11/17/houston-dallas-bulle...
  - Alupis 6y ago
    The California HSR project is dead, in case you didn't know. It ran over budget nearly 3 times the initial projected cost estimates, and ultimately is going between Merced and Bakersfield instead of the original SF to LA (less than 200 miles of track) - two cities practically no person commutes between. Overall, the project was a massive failure, and a political party that's in the minority isn't the reason.
eplanit 6y ago
"There are plenty of cheap places in California" Where in California, the central valley?
- deaddodo 6y ago
  If you think places like Orange County, Ventura, the Inland Empire, Sacramento, etc are expensive; you’re going to be sorely disappointed when you leave to any similarly sized metro elsewhere.
mapgrep 6y ago
Yes, California is a very big state and I could imagine for example the Central Valley reaping many more benefits from any persistent remote work or company relocation trend than other states. Hadn’t considered this possibility but it makes a lot of sense.
- NDizzle 6y ago
  Having just left the Central Valley of California, living there for 7 years working remotely the whole time, I don’t think it’ll work out this way. If you want to see overtaxed areas where you absolutely cannot see the benefits of your tax dollars, you’ll be right at home. Moving out of California is like getting an immediate 25% raise.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    If someone's fine with heat and they want to stay in that general area of the country, I'd probably steer them towards Nevada TBH.
    - NDizzle 6y ago
      I thought the same until I spent more time in Reno. The cost of living increased too much and the WIND is the worst thing about the area. Constant 40+ mph gusts. I don't know much about Vegas, perhaps it's better.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
linguae 6y ago
I concur. I grew up in Sacramento and I'm contemplating buying a place there (I'm currently in Santa Cruz County; I'd love to stay here forever, but it is too expensive for me to buy unless I live in the mountains) and working remotely from there, though prices have risen considerably this year due to its popularity with Bay Area mega-commuters and remote workers. Sacramento has a lot going for it; it's a diverse metro area with a lot to do, and there are many nice, safe neighborhoods. I also like Sacramento's walkable central areas, though these areas are a bit pricey (they're an absolute bargain compared to the Bay Area, but they're more expensive than Sacramento's suburbs). Sacramento has a California State University campus (Sacramento State University), and University of California, Davis is only 15 minutes west of Downtown Sacramento. An alternative that I'm considering is Merced, which is roughly two hours from Silicon Valley. Merced is much smaller than Sacramento, so it lacks Sacramento's amenities and variety of neighborhoods. However, Merced is home to University of California, Merced, which opened in 2005. UC Merced has been expanding and is becoming more popular with students. While Merced does not yet have a college-town atmosphere (at least to me), Merced has the potential to develop this feel. Merced has the cheapest housing of all cities that host a UC campus (though Riverside comes close). A mortgage on a brand-new three-bedroom house in Merced is cheaper than the rent on a one-bedroom apartment in the Bay Area. Finally, I'm also considering some of Southern California's desert cities that are part of the greater Los Angeles metro area, such as Palmdale and Lancaster in the Antelope Valley as well as the Inland Empire area. These areas have relatively affordable housing yet are very close to Los Angeles and all of its amenities.
- scruple 6y ago
  > ... Palmdale and Lancaster in the Antelope Valley as well as the Inland Empire area. These areas ... are very close to Los Angeles and all of its amenities. Have you lived in SoCal before? Because this reads as kind of naive about the traffic patterns down here. I'm not trying to discourage you or anything but there's a certain reality you have to be capable of accepting about driving distance to driving time in SoCal, otherwise you will be absolutely miserable living here.
  - linguae 6y ago

zarkov99 6y ago

Yes, they also should consider what part they had in browning the pasture they are leaving.

runawaybottle 6y ago

When will people ever learn, location location location. Texas ain’t it kids.

Mc91 6y ago

I got my current job when I got a good offer to relocate. When I eventually leave, I will either return home or move to the bay area. One of the reasons I would move out to the bay area would be the better noncompete and IP assignment legalities. I would like to code my own stuff at night or on weekends without worrying as much about all of this.

jofer 6y ago
CA's restrictions on what IP assignment agreements can claim is a _huge_ win for employees. I _really_ wish we had similar legislation here in TX. I think that's a much more important issue than non-competes, personally.
kjksf 6y ago
Non competes are a different thing than IP assignment. Non competes prevent an employer to forbid you to work for competitor after you leave (or they fire you). Non competes are non enforceable in CA. IP assignments (i.e. "what you do belong to us") is very much enforceable and very common. How it's enforced depends on the company, but by default the employer can claim ownership if you do your work on their time or using their resources (e.g. on a company's laptop). And they can drag you through courts even if it's all your time and your resources. If you work for Apple, you better not do any non-Apple work. At Google you can do open source work but you have to get a permission. So as far as IP assignment, CA is no different than TX.
- Mc91 6y ago
  I thought California had better IP assignment laws than states like Texas ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208819 ), but it is not something I know about in full detail. I know California can can claim ownership if you do work on their time or using their resources. In other states the scope seems even wider. I should probably look into it more.
- sxp 6y ago
  California law has special protections that help people who create a startup in their garage in the evenings while working at a company in the daytime: https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/lab/division-3/2870-2872/2870/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/lab/division-3/... As long as they don't use the employer's equipment nor work that they do for the employer or compete with the employer, they can own their own work. This is one of the key legal reasons CA spawns so many startups.

Alupis 6y ago

It's more of the "money types" have the money to pick up and move half-way across the nation at the drop of a hat, and not worry about trying to find a new job or housing, etc. A luxury the rest of us cannot afford. They are fleeing red tape, overregulation and general dysfunction, yes... along with things like a hypocritical governor[1] that crushes businesses seemingly at random[2], ludicrously high state income tax rates, property tax rates and sales tax rates[3], and half the state burning to the ground every year due to what our government tells us is Global Warming's fault, instead of decades of awfully misguided forestry management policy[4], a massive homeless problem that gets worse every year[5] and is consuming coveted public areas like Venice Beach[6], people defecating in the streets right in front of families[7], an electric grid that is turned off for millions of people when the wind blows too much[8] and also when the wind blows too little[9]... plus more. And then when our government officials are questioned about the "Exodus" they laugh and say, where are you going to go? The entire country has all these same problems you're complaining about!"[10] Which is absurdly false. There definitely are greener pastures in this massive country... perhaps Austin and/or Texas isn't it... but California isn't as good as it gets, at least certainly not any more. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/opinion/gavin-newsom-french-laundry-california.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/opinion/gavin-newsom-fren... [2] https://www.thewrap.com/closed-restaurant-owner-decries-hypocrisy-of-la-covid-19-orders-allowing-film-shoots/ https://www.thewrap.com/closed-restaurant-owner-decries-hypo... [3] https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/13/why-do-californians-pay-more-state-and-local-taxes-than-texans/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/13/why-do-californians-p... [4] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/04/why-everything-they-say-about-california-fires--including-that-climate-matters-most--is-wrong/?sh=3c2282e84cb6 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/04... [5] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/09/12/why-california-keeps-making-homelessness-worse/?sh=7c650a305a61 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/09/12... [6] https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/while-venice-beach-residents-under-lockdown-homeless-and-encampments-grow-and-thrive/ https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/while-venice-beach-res... [7] https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/mapping-san-franciscos-human-waste-challenge-132562-case-reports-since-2008/?sh=6c66daaf5ea5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/map... [8] https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article245549120.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article245549120.html [9] https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias-shift-from-natural-gas-to-solar-is-playing-a-role-in-rolling-blackouts https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-californias... [10] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/politics/jerry-brown-on-a-california-exodus-tell-me-where-are-you-going-to-go.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/politics/jerry-brown-o...

crazygringo 6y ago

You're making it black and white. It's entirely valid for people to want a middle ground. You can think California is too regulated and that Texas isn't regulated enough -- but it's much, much harder to repeal regulations than to create new ones. So it's entirely reasonable to see Texas as a location where you can implement the right regulations from scratch without going overboard.

clavalle 6y ago

Texas was pretty pro-employee when it came to non-competes until just recently.