11 ms·

Yeah, many of us that grew up in SoCal recall the heist that led to the so called 'assault weapon' ban, it was completely legal to have a long barrel rifle with

Yeah, many of us that grew up in SoCal recall the heist that led to the so called 'assault weapon' ban, it was completely legal to have a long barrel rifle with 30 round magazines in CA prior to that--they could be open-carried if not loaded back then if I recall correctly, too. This was around the time of the LA riots in the 90s, too... which in my mind all happened at the same time as I recall being a kid sat in front of the TV not far from it all and being shocked at the level of wanton destruction. California was always a wild place since its inception and before it was ever a part of the US--many who live here don't even realize that California (both alta and baja) pre-dates the existence of the US and British colonialism by a significant margin. LA in the 80s was also Ground Zero for Gang warfare in the US, so us multi-generationals lived through that and adapted and we are am entirely different breed to the transplants and the rest of the US as fires and earthquakes were also taking place alongside those events, as those didn't stop either. And while I personally have no desire to live in CA anytime soon, except the occasional visit, I'm glad so many decided to leave since COVID. In a decade or two it may look like and feel as it did when I was a kid in the 90s and I may be tempted to go back.

conception 6y ago
Just a point of clarification for those not familiar with the heist, the weapons used were -not- legal in CA or the US. It was also during the time of the Federal Assault Weapons ban. They were not owned nor able to be owned legally during that time. It was also the inspiration for Heat’s shootout!
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > Just a point of clarification for those not familiar with the heist, the weapons used were -not- legal in CA or the US. It was also during the time of the Federal Assault Weapons ban. They were not owned nor able to be owned legally during that time. Only semi-correct, they had full-auto AK47s and extended mags, all of which at the time could be purchased and legally owned with a special stamp by the ATF [0]. As a child a friend's father had one he would bring out on new years to only short lived amusement in the neighborhood as we all lived in a densely populated suburb near a major freeway. But without them, yes, you couldn't just go to a store and buy one off the shelf. 0: https://legalbeagle.com/8731203-class-three-stamp-through-atf.html https://legalbeagle.com/8731203-class-three-stamp-through-at...
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    The weapons they used theoretically could have been legal had they had the provenance to make them legal. Converting your own semi-auto to full auto is in now way legal then nor now. Full auto guns are basically a rich man's toy and have been since well before new ones were outlawed in 1986. The practicality mostly isn't there for criminal use and they're real expensive to feed.
    - EGreg 6y ago
      What happened in 1986 and are you saying it’s legal to own an automatic weapon if it was manufactured that long ago? Do you have to register it? And people can modify them and upgrade them?
      - azernik 6y ago
        See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25514950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25514950 tl;dr - you don't "have to register" them, because by definition the ones that are legal are already registered. In '86 they stopped allowing new registrations for automatic weapons, but existing registered weapons were grandfathered in. US gun law considers the lower receiver to bear the "identity" of the weapon, so some pretty extensive modification can occur while it technically stays "the same gun" in a Ship of Theseus fashion.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    Pretty much all NFA items are banned in California, even with a tax stamp. I believe that was already true at the time
- DennisP 6y ago
  So to clarify that...the federal Assault Weapons Ban applied to semi-auto rifles with certain ergonomic features, including pistol grips, flash hiders, and folding stocks. (Semi-auto is one bullet per trigger pull, full-auto means you can hold the trigger down and spray bullets.) The North Hollywood robbers had illegally modified their weapons to enable full-auto fire. Since well before 1997, modifying guns like this has been a federal felony that gets you a ten-year prison sentence. That's a prohibition that predates the Assault Weapon Ban, which had nothing to do with full-auto weapons. The AWB has since expired, and doing your own full-auto conversion will still get you ten years in the slammer. You can buy a full-auto weapon, but only after an extensive background check and approval of your local sheriff, if your state allows it, and only if the weapon was manufactured before 1986. The movie Heat, of course, also had its robbers using full-auto. Incidentally, the movie came out before the North Hollywood robbery; many people have actually blamed the movie for inspiring the real robbers, one of whom owned a copy of the movie! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_(1995_film)#Impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_(1995_film)#Impact
  - tomcam 6y ago
    Where do you even buy those pre-86 full autos? Asking for a friend.
    - manfredo 6y ago
      Usually at auction. Even poor quality, worn out registered automatics will run in the high thousands, or low tens of thousands because of constrained supply. This creates interesting dynamics where people take cheap (relatively, still ~$5,000 on the low end) legal automatics like MAC-10s and converting them to 5.56x45mm while retaining the original lower receiver. Example: https://youtu.be/YjrnB2cXSqM https://youtu.be/YjrnB2cXSqM
      - EGreg 6y ago
        Wait wat? These are legal somehow in USA? Can you please trace how and prove it with links?
- electriclove 6y ago
  No, Heat came out Before that heist.
- reshie 6y ago
  thats right. what it did was giving the police more militarization and most police now carry an ar in their cruisers(used to be shotgun at best) and also lot more military surplus like nraps.
- bhickey 6y ago
  > It was also the inspiration for Heat’s shootout! The North Hollywood shootout was in 1997, Heat came out two years prior.
frankfrankfrank 6y ago
Regardless of what one thinks of guns, it is technically is still legal to both keep and bear the arms that include a long barrel rifle as well as any amount of ammunition one wants, it is actually the state government in this case that is in gross violation of the Constitution’s law prohibiting the government infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. Just because an illegal law is passed does not nullify and superior law or right; for example, just because CA were to one day decide that freedom is illegal or, inversely, involuntary servitude is now legal, does not only not negate the God given right to freedom, nor does it even negate an inferior amendment to the Constitution barring such an abuse of freedom.
- AuthorizedCust 6y ago
  You could be right. The problem is to get there, you’ll need to endure a lengthy court process and enormous legal bills, plus you’ll live a long time in uncertainty.
- taurath 6y ago
  Are there any reasonable curtailments of that right? I'm sure its a cliche but whats the difference between owning a LMG and a bazooka?
  - post_break 6y ago
    I think you can still own both. The bazooka will need a tax stamp for each round if I’m not mistaken. I believe there are still transferable m79 grenade launchers and there are definitely M16 under barrel attachments you can buy.
    - lumost 6y ago
      From a legal standpoint, has any limit been placed on the second ammendment? could someone/has someone sued on the claim they should have access to WMDs?
      - seabird 6y ago
xvedejas 6y ago
California will never be like it was in the 90s again. The nature of the place is to keep changing.
chokeartist 6y ago
> California was always a wild place since its inception and before it was ever a part of the US--many who live here don't even realize that California (both alta and baja) pre-dates the existence of the US and British colonialism by a significant margin. What the fuck are you people smoking out there? It was completely a tangential community until it was a state.
asveikau 6y ago
> Yeah, many of us that grew up in SoCal recall the heist that led to the so called 'assault weapon' ban I always heard it was events in California (and Diane Feinstein being a key player) that created the ban, but I never heard a specific event in SoCal being the catalyst. Wikipedia cites a school shooting in Stockton in 1989 and an office shooting in San Francisco in 1993. Outside of the state, Wikipedia also cites a mass shooting in Killeen, TX. > LA in the 80s was also Ground Zero for Gang warfare in the US Might be true, but also: the 1980s was near the peak of violent crime certainly nation-wide, maybe worldwide. Lots written and studied on this topic. Theories about lead poisoning and all that. Probably multiple factors. But a lot of the discussion then was on urban crime. People thought that cities were dangerous. I'm glad that the last 20 years or so has largely seen a reversal of that. Lately there has been a resurgence, especially in the political right, of the cities are dangerous mantra. It seems pretty odd to me.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > Lately there has been a resurgence, especially in the political right, of the cities are dangerous mantra. It seems pretty odd to me. Urban violence (such as in Chicago and Minneapolis) might have something to do with it. [0] https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-homicides-murder-report/8424707/ https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-homicides-murder-repo... [1] https://www.startribune.com/staggering-surge-in-violent-carjackings-continues-citywide/573257391/?refresh=true https://www.startribune.com/staggering-surge-in-violent-carj...
  - asveikau 6y ago
    I haven't looked at data in a while, but I am pretty sure those places are safer than they were in the 80s.
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      Thats entirely possible and it probably wouldn't be seen to rebut the right-wing narrative that "cities are dangerous" to tell them "you should see how dangerous cities used to be."
konjin 6y ago
>And while I personally have no desire to live in CA anytime soon, except the occasional visit, I'm glad so many decided to leave since COVID. In a decade or two it may look like and feel as it did when I was a kid in the 90s and I may be tempted to go back. A bank robbery every hour? And I thought my nostalgia for the leaded gasoline and burning asbestos tram breaks smells was odd.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > A bank robbery every hour? More like a reminder that primitive tendencies can revert Society back to its violent mean really quickly and that in turn instilled a need to want to preserve what we have and build resilient communities to that end as we all felt vulnerable to that ever-present danger. The fact that no one speaks to their neighbors now is a stark contrast to my childhood in the late 80s and 90s where every kid on the block was a part of the after school 'clique' in one way or another and we looked out for each other so we helped one another in times of need with no real hesitation. It was common to have parents drop off the neighbors kids at different school in exchange for a place to hang out after school and place at the dinner table that night while the parents worked OT etc... This was rotational and we often were at each others homes on different days of the week. Bi-monthly neihborhood bbqs/potlucks were typical things and were way less tense then some mandated HOA sanctioned community watch meeting where people just snitch on each other and was more a casual event to eat and build bonds share a dish from your families native land with our local neighbors. Many of those people had to leave as things got more and more expensive as time went on and it was a somber experience even to this day. Then, to me, it abruptly went completely away in the 2000s when ignoring your community completely became normal, and I'm guilty of this, too; I no longer wanted to be a part of the new crowds or integrate into the new ones and sought refuge Online instead as those crowds that were made up of 'less interesting people from somewhere else' so unless we had specific and obvious interests aligned I never bothered, and even then it would be short lived as they were built on very fickle forms of self-interest. And this persisted until I left CA for the first time. Again, its probably all survivor bias, and I knew way too many kids in the neighborhood or not far away who died due to gang violence (the shootings at the counter strike internet cafes were particular bad in my area [0]) so I"m not trying to glamorize that aspect. Its just that much like in places with incredibly cold and snowy winters you learn to appreciate one another and their roles in your Life, and since SoCal has perfect weather nearly all year around this was the closest thing that made us see past our superficial differences, and somehow latently knowing it could all go away in a flash gave a stark reminder of how valuable and integral that is to one's quality of Life. You hear this a lot amonst the Korean survivors of the LA riots when the Police abandoned them and left them to fend for themselves, that really hit hard for me and was what made me look past my previously held prejudice of foul smelling kimchi and started eating, cooking and enjoying their cuisine. > And I thought my nostalgia for the leaded gasoline and burning asbestos tram breaks smells was odd. I'm a big proponent of EV in a large part because I recall how light headed and nauseating I'd felt riding in the tailgate of a 70s pick up truck on the way to the local to in-n-out or to AM/PM as well as seeing images of the smog of LA would creep in on bad days and the poor air quality all year round was most of my Life as a kid. I don't desire for any of that, despite a large part of my career being tied to the Auto Industry I'm glad we're seeing EV taking over as I remember how orange and brown the sky looked back then. 0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/02/usa.duncancampbell https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/02/usa.duncancamp...
dragonwriter 6y ago
> many who live here don't even realize that California (both alta and baja) pre-dates the existence of the US and British colonialism by a significant margin. Alta California was first colonized in 1769, not long before a bunch of British colonies on the other side of the continent that had been settled for quite a while broke off to form the USA; Baja was colonized from 1683. Neither predates British colonization of North America, and the colonization of Alta California only barely predates US independence.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- africanboy 6y ago
  AFAIK Spanish arrived in California around 16th Century, Cortés, Ulloa and Cabrillo led expeditions and created small settlements between 1530 and 1550. Sir Francis Drake declared English sovereignty over the area of SF bay in 1579 and named it New Albion (New Britain, from Albion, the old Greek name for Britain).
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > AFAIK Spanish arrived in California around 16th Century, Arrived in? Sure, mostly sailing around the coast and transitory land expeditions. So did the British in North America, on both coasts. But as for establishing any kind of durable colonies (e.g., “California” as more than a name on a map), that came later, and well after British colonies like Virginia were established, especially in the case of Alta California. The idea that California was some kind of established European colony earlier than British colonization of North America is what I was taking issue with.
    - africanboy 6y ago
      California was officially established in 1850 though the original post said > pre-dates the existence of the US and British colonialism Which is honestly not false, settlements in California formed about one century before the US independence. Anyway, there were people living in what we call California today long before the Spanish arrived there...
vecinu 6y ago
> And while I personally have no desire to live in CA anytime soon, except the occasional visit, I'm glad so many decided to leave since COVID. > In a decade or two it may look like and feel as it did when I was a kid in the 90s and I may be tempted to go back. I'm curious what you mean by this. What would change for you to be tempted to go back and what do the people that are leaving since COVID have to do with it?
Axsuul 6y ago
What California in the 90s feeling are you referring to?
adwww 6y ago
I grew up in a leafy village in rural UK. But at one point in the early 90s my dad got an offer to move to SoCal and we went out, I remember visiting schools and stuff, but we never actually went ahead with the move. Apparently while we were there my dad witnessed the car in front of him being robbed at gunpoint, but decided perhaps that was a one off, don't tell the family, perhaps it's fine... then the exact same thing happened the next night at nearly the same spot. So that was the end of my potential US childhood.
- nvarsj 6y ago
  It's sort of funny how you get used to things and normalize them, especially the violence that occurs in the US. I lived in Chicago for nearly a decade, much of it on the near west side, and it was normal to hear gunshots a few blocks away. Violent crime was normal - a pub restaurant I used to take my kids to along with other families, had a brutal murder where someone got their throat slit. And I wasn't living in a "bad" area either, it was filled with affluent middle class families. This was also with two coal fired power plants puffing away right in the middle of the city (this was in the 2000s even, what a joke!). Everyone just accepted these things as normal for living in Chicago. The US can be weirdly dissonant place at times.
  - Moru 6y ago
    So what you are telling me, all those movies, it's not just Hollywood magic, it's reality? Ugh.
    - dugmartin 6y ago
      Counterpoint: I lived in the North side of Chicago and worked downtown for a few years and I never heard a gunshot. Violence in Chicago is very localized in certain neighborhoods (West side and South side when I was there, not sure about now).
    - murph-almighty 6y ago
      You ever see Taxi Driver? Apparently that movie's depiction of NYC in the 70s was not that far off from reality, and it's jarring.

conception 6y ago

Just a point of clarification for those not familiar with the heist, the weapons used were -not- legal in CA or the US. It was also during the time of the Federal Assault Weapons ban. They were not owned nor able to be owned legally during that time. It was also the inspiration for Heat’s shootout!

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> Just a point of clarification for those not familiar with the heist, the weapons used were -not- legal in CA or the US. It was also during the time of the Federal Assault Weapons ban. They were not owned nor able to be owned legally during that time. Only semi-correct, they had full-auto AK47s and extended mags, all of which at the time could be purchased and legally owned with a special stamp by the ATF [0]. As a child a friend's father had one he would bring out on new years to only short lived amusement in the neighborhood as we all lived in a densely populated suburb near a major freeway. But without them, yes, you couldn't just go to a store and buy one off the shelf. 0: https://legalbeagle.com/8731203-class-three-stamp-through-atf.html https://legalbeagle.com/8731203-class-three-stamp-through-at...
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  The weapons they used theoretically could have been legal had they had the provenance to make them legal. Converting your own semi-auto to full auto is in now way legal then nor now. Full auto guns are basically a rich man's toy and have been since well before new ones were outlawed in 1986. The practicality mostly isn't there for criminal use and they're real expensive to feed.
  - EGreg 6y ago
    What happened in 1986 and are you saying it’s legal to own an automatic weapon if it was manufactured that long ago? Do you have to register it? And people can modify them and upgrade them?
    - azernik 6y ago
      See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25514950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25514950 tl;dr - you don't "have to register" them, because by definition the ones that are legal are already registered. In '86 they stopped allowing new registrations for automatic weapons, but existing registered weapons were grandfathered in. US gun law considers the lower receiver to bear the "identity" of the weapon, so some pretty extensive modification can occur while it technically stays "the same gun" in a Ship of Theseus fashion.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  Pretty much all NFA items are banned in California, even with a tax stamp. I believe that was already true at the time
DennisP 6y ago
So to clarify that...the federal Assault Weapons Ban applied to semi-auto rifles with certain ergonomic features, including pistol grips, flash hiders, and folding stocks. (Semi-auto is one bullet per trigger pull, full-auto means you can hold the trigger down and spray bullets.) The North Hollywood robbers had illegally modified their weapons to enable full-auto fire. Since well before 1997, modifying guns like this has been a federal felony that gets you a ten-year prison sentence. That's a prohibition that predates the Assault Weapon Ban, which had nothing to do with full-auto weapons. The AWB has since expired, and doing your own full-auto conversion will still get you ten years in the slammer. You can buy a full-auto weapon, but only after an extensive background check and approval of your local sheriff, if your state allows it, and only if the weapon was manufactured before 1986. The movie Heat, of course, also had its robbers using full-auto. Incidentally, the movie came out before the North Hollywood robbery; many people have actually blamed the movie for inspiring the real robbers, one of whom owned a copy of the movie! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_(1995_film)#Impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_(1995_film)#Impact
- tomcam 6y ago
  Where do you even buy those pre-86 full autos? Asking for a friend.
  - manfredo 6y ago
    Usually at auction. Even poor quality, worn out registered automatics will run in the high thousands, or low tens of thousands because of constrained supply. This creates interesting dynamics where people take cheap (relatively, still ~$5,000 on the low end) legal automatics like MAC-10s and converting them to 5.56x45mm while retaining the original lower receiver. Example: https://youtu.be/YjrnB2cXSqM https://youtu.be/YjrnB2cXSqM
    - EGreg 6y ago
      Wait wat? These are legal somehow in USA? Can you please trace how and prove it with links?
electriclove 6y ago
No, Heat came out Before that heist.
reshie 6y ago
thats right. what it did was giving the police more militarization and most police now carry an ar in their cruisers(used to be shotgun at best) and also lot more military surplus like nraps.
bhickey 6y ago
> It was also the inspiration for Heat’s shootout! The North Hollywood shootout was in 1997, Heat came out two years prior.

frankfrankfrank 6y ago

Regardless of what one thinks of guns, it is technically is still legal to both keep and bear the arms that include a long barrel rifle as well as any amount of ammunition one wants, it is actually the state government in this case that is in gross violation of the Constitution’s law prohibiting the government infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. Just because an illegal law is passed does not nullify and superior law or right; for example, just because CA were to one day decide that freedom is illegal or, inversely, involuntary servitude is now legal, does not only not negate the God given right to freedom, nor does it even negate an inferior amendment to the Constitution barring such an abuse of freedom.

AuthorizedCust 6y ago
You could be right. The problem is to get there, you’ll need to endure a lengthy court process and enormous legal bills, plus you’ll live a long time in uncertainty.
taurath 6y ago
Are there any reasonable curtailments of that right? I'm sure its a cliche but whats the difference between owning a LMG and a bazooka?
- post_break 6y ago
  I think you can still own both. The bazooka will need a tax stamp for each round if I’m not mistaken. I believe there are still transferable m79 grenade launchers and there are definitely M16 under barrel attachments you can buy.
  - lumost 6y ago
    From a legal standpoint, has any limit been placed on the second ammendment? could someone/has someone sued on the claim they should have access to WMDs?
    - seabird 6y ago

xvedejas 6y ago

California will never be like it was in the 90s again. The nature of the place is to keep changing.

chokeartist 6y ago

> California was always a wild place since its inception and before it was ever a part of the US--many who live here don't even realize that California (both alta and baja) pre-dates the existence of the US and British colonialism by a significant margin. What the fuck are you people smoking out there? It was completely a tangential community until it was a state.

asveikau 6y ago

> Yeah, many of us that grew up in SoCal recall the heist that led to the so called 'assault weapon' ban I always heard it was events in California (and Diane Feinstein being a key player) that created the ban, but I never heard a specific event in SoCal being the catalyst. Wikipedia cites a school shooting in Stockton in 1989 and an office shooting in San Francisco in 1993. Outside of the state, Wikipedia also cites a mass shooting in Killeen, TX. > LA in the 80s was also Ground Zero for Gang warfare in the US Might be true, but also: the 1980s was near the peak of violent crime certainly nation-wide, maybe worldwide. Lots written and studied on this topic. Theories about lead poisoning and all that. Probably multiple factors. But a lot of the discussion then was on urban crime. People thought that cities were dangerous. I'm glad that the last 20 years or so has largely seen a reversal of that. Lately there has been a resurgence, especially in the political right, of the cities are dangerous mantra. It seems pretty odd to me.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> Lately there has been a resurgence, especially in the political right, of the cities are dangerous mantra. It seems pretty odd to me. Urban violence (such as in Chicago and Minneapolis) might have something to do with it. [0] https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-homicides-murder-report/8424707/ https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-homicides-murder-repo... [1] https://www.startribune.com/staggering-surge-in-violent-carjackings-continues-citywide/573257391/?refresh=true https://www.startribune.com/staggering-surge-in-violent-carj...
- asveikau 6y ago
  I haven't looked at data in a while, but I am pretty sure those places are safer than they were in the 80s.
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    Thats entirely possible and it probably wouldn't be seen to rebut the right-wing narrative that "cities are dangerous" to tell them "you should see how dangerous cities used to be."

konjin 6y ago

>And while I personally have no desire to live in CA anytime soon, except the occasional visit, I'm glad so many decided to leave since COVID. In a decade or two it may look like and feel as it did when I was a kid in the 90s and I may be tempted to go back. A bank robbery every hour? And I thought my nostalgia for the leaded gasoline and burning asbestos tram breaks smells was odd.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> A bank robbery every hour? More like a reminder that primitive tendencies can revert Society back to its violent mean really quickly and that in turn instilled a need to want to preserve what we have and build resilient communities to that end as we all felt vulnerable to that ever-present danger. The fact that no one speaks to their neighbors now is a stark contrast to my childhood in the late 80s and 90s where every kid on the block was a part of the after school 'clique' in one way or another and we looked out for each other so we helped one another in times of need with no real hesitation. It was common to have parents drop off the neighbors kids at different school in exchange for a place to hang out after school and place at the dinner table that night while the parents worked OT etc... This was rotational and we often were at each others homes on different days of the week. Bi-monthly neihborhood bbqs/potlucks were typical things and were way less tense then some mandated HOA sanctioned community watch meeting where people just snitch on each other and was more a casual event to eat and build bonds share a dish from your families native land with our local neighbors. Many of those people had to leave as things got more and more expensive as time went on and it was a somber experience even to this day. Then, to me, it abruptly went completely away in the 2000s when ignoring your community completely became normal, and I'm guilty of this, too; I no longer wanted to be a part of the new crowds or integrate into the new ones and sought refuge Online instead as those crowds that were made up of 'less interesting people from somewhere else' so unless we had specific and obvious interests aligned I never bothered, and even then it would be short lived as they were built on very fickle forms of self-interest. And this persisted until I left CA for the first time. Again, its probably all survivor bias, and I knew way too many kids in the neighborhood or not far away who died due to gang violence (the shootings at the counter strike internet cafes were particular bad in my area [0]) so I"m not trying to glamorize that aspect. Its just that much like in places with incredibly cold and snowy winters you learn to appreciate one another and their roles in your Life, and since SoCal has perfect weather nearly all year around this was the closest thing that made us see past our superficial differences, and somehow latently knowing it could all go away in a flash gave a stark reminder of how valuable and integral that is to one's quality of Life. You hear this a lot amonst the Korean survivors of the LA riots when the Police abandoned them and left them to fend for themselves, that really hit hard for me and was what made me look past my previously held prejudice of foul smelling kimchi and started eating, cooking and enjoying their cuisine. > And I thought my nostalgia for the leaded gasoline and burning asbestos tram breaks smells was odd. I'm a big proponent of EV in a large part because I recall how light headed and nauseating I'd felt riding in the tailgate of a 70s pick up truck on the way to the local to in-n-out or to AM/PM as well as seeing images of the smog of LA would creep in on bad days and the poor air quality all year round was most of my Life as a kid. I don't desire for any of that, despite a large part of my career being tied to the Auto Industry I'm glad we're seeing EV taking over as I remember how orange and brown the sky looked back then. 0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/02/usa.duncancampbell https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/02/usa.duncancamp...

dragonwriter 6y ago

> many who live here don't even realize that California (both alta and baja) pre-dates the existence of the US and British colonialism by a significant margin. Alta California was first colonized in 1769, not long before a bunch of British colonies on the other side of the continent that had been settled for quite a while broke off to form the USA; Baja was colonized from 1683. Neither predates British colonization of North America, and the colonization of Alta California only barely predates US independence.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
africanboy 6y ago
AFAIK Spanish arrived in California around 16th Century, Cortés, Ulloa and Cabrillo led expeditions and created small settlements between 1530 and 1550. Sir Francis Drake declared English sovereignty over the area of SF bay in 1579 and named it New Albion (New Britain, from Albion, the old Greek name for Britain).
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > AFAIK Spanish arrived in California around 16th Century, Arrived in? Sure, mostly sailing around the coast and transitory land expeditions. So did the British in North America, on both coasts. But as for establishing any kind of durable colonies (e.g., “California” as more than a name on a map), that came later, and well after British colonies like Virginia were established, especially in the case of Alta California. The idea that California was some kind of established European colony earlier than British colonization of North America is what I was taking issue with.
  - africanboy 6y ago
    California was officially established in 1850 though the original post said > pre-dates the existence of the US and British colonialism Which is honestly not false, settlements in California formed about one century before the US independence. Anyway, there were people living in what we call California today long before the Spanish arrived there...

vecinu 6y ago

> And while I personally have no desire to live in CA anytime soon, except the occasional visit, I'm glad so many decided to leave since COVID. > In a decade or two it may look like and feel as it did when I was a kid in the 90s and I may be tempted to go back. I'm curious what you mean by this. What would change for you to be tempted to go back and what do the people that are leaving since COVID have to do with it?

Axsuul 6y ago

What California in the 90s feeling are you referring to?

adwww 6y ago

I grew up in a leafy village in rural UK. But at one point in the early 90s my dad got an offer to move to SoCal and we went out, I remember visiting schools and stuff, but we never actually went ahead with the move. Apparently while we were there my dad witnessed the car in front of him being robbed at gunpoint, but decided perhaps that was a one off, don't tell the family, perhaps it's fine... then the exact same thing happened the next night at nearly the same spot. So that was the end of my potential US childhood.

nvarsj 6y ago
It's sort of funny how you get used to things and normalize them, especially the violence that occurs in the US. I lived in Chicago for nearly a decade, much of it on the near west side, and it was normal to hear gunshots a few blocks away. Violent crime was normal - a pub restaurant I used to take my kids to along with other families, had a brutal murder where someone got their throat slit. And I wasn't living in a "bad" area either, it was filled with affluent middle class families. This was also with two coal fired power plants puffing away right in the middle of the city (this was in the 2000s even, what a joke!). Everyone just accepted these things as normal for living in Chicago. The US can be weirdly dissonant place at times.
- Moru 6y ago
  So what you are telling me, all those movies, it's not just Hollywood magic, it's reality? Ugh.
  - dugmartin 6y ago
    Counterpoint: I lived in the North side of Chicago and worked downtown for a few years and I never heard a gunshot. Violence in Chicago is very localized in certain neighborhoods (West side and South side when I was there, not sure about now).
  - murph-almighty 6y ago
    You ever see Taxi Driver? Apparently that movie's depiction of NYC in the 70s was not that far off from reality, and it's jarring.