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As a US veterinarian, I hold a nuanced view of spay/neuter. Nevertheless, I generally recommend it as default for most pet owners, as it goes along with their
by projektfu 6y ago
As a US veterinarian, I hold a nuanced view of spay/neuter. Nevertheless, I generally recommend it as default for most pet owners, as it goes along with their expectations of what their pet's life will be like. People who elected to leave their dogs intact are often shocked by something down the line.
1. Pyometra. Dogs do not have menopause, but they may stop cycling. When they do they can develop a uterine infection that can become life threatening in hours.
2. Perineal hernias. Unneutered, aging dogs are at risk for pelvic floor weakness that results in specialty surgery (and neutering), costing thousands of dollars.
3. Hit by car. Unneutered pets are much more likely to escape randomly and get hit by cars. Even pets that normally do not run away from their owners.
4. Mammary tumor. Unspayed or late-spayed females are at significantly more risk than those spayed at 6 months.
5. Pregnancy. Shocked pikachu face when the unspayed chihuahua actually did get knocked up by their friend's unneutered chow.
6. Bleeding. All bitches bleed during proestrus.
7. Behavior. The dog-park behavior people like in their pets is the behavior of neutered dogs. Unneutered dogs are much more likely to attempt to dominate the other dogs and get into fights.
That said, it's a trade off. Unneutered males definitely have a different growth pattern and develop a stockier build. They also seem to have significantly fewer issues with the cranial cruciate ligament in the stifle (knee). There are some other, more hand-wavey associations of cancer in golden retrievers related to neutering, but it's hard to tell if that's just an artifact of the data as it's more likely unneutered dogs appear at teaching hospitals for injuries (hit by car, fights) rather than for cancer.
I would love to just recommend people be responsible adults. I wish that the US could be like Norway, where people don't seem to abandon their unneutered animals, and they don't seem to have problems with their bad behavior.
- Niten 6y ago> 3. Hit by car. Unneutered pets are much more likely to escape randomly and get hit by cars. Even pets that normally do not run away from their owners. Is there evidence of a causal relationship here?
- sjg007 6y agoThey are running off to sow their oats.
- Talanes 6y agoThe inference is obvious, I assume the poster is looking for actual data.
- postalrat 6y agoAfter owning an unneutered dog when I was a kid I can't imagine the data shows anything else.
- Hnrobert42 6y agoI wonder how you would collect that data.
- redtexture 6y ago7 of the best GPS dog collars and trackers to keep tabs on your pet https://mashable.com/roundup/best-gps-dog-collars/ https://mashable.com/roundup/best-gps-dog-collars/
- Hnrobert42 6y agoBut how would you test the inference with that data? You don’t need to know when the dog crossed the road but why. Which reminds me of this Far Side cartoon: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/251990541629282256/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/251990541629282256/
- mjevans 6y agoI suspect a study to prove the exact means of connection is very difficult. A retrospective study would be easier. Based on a survey of a given vets files (not quite a random sample, but for this case it might be good enough to establish a bias in facts), could trace the incidence rate of 'yard escape injuries' between 'intact' and neutered males, as well as 'intact' and spayed females.
- astura 6y agoMost people I personally know/knew didn't spay/neuter their pets when I was growing up. I've seen animals do some absolutely bonkers crazy stuff while in heat. I know an intact female pet that literally broke a screen window to jump out said window in order to mate. This was a second story window, yes she jumped out of a second story window! So I don't doubt it for even a second.
- realsimplesynd 6y ago> 6. All bitches bleed during proestrus. The word “bitch” has changed so much in cultural meaning during the last 50 years or so that somehow it feels more offensive to call a female dog a “bitch” then a human. How is “bitch” used in veterinary hospitals?
- t-writescode 6y agoIt hasn’t. That’s the source of the word, and you likely haven’t been in circles where the real word is used intentionally for the real word’s purpose.
- ubertoop 6y agoThat won't stop them from trying to redefine or eliminate the word entirely.
- gwd 6y agoOr to put it in a way which might connect better with gp: By continuing to use the word "bitch" for its original meaning, vets, dog breeders, and the like are fighting against the appropriation (and degradation) of their culture by the world at large.
- perardi 6y agoIt’s still used extensively by breeders, including what amounts to the highest authority, the American Kennel Club. https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/dog-breeding/choosing-a-brood-bitch-a-bit-of-a-gamble/ https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/dog-breeding/choosing-a-br...
- projektfu 6y agoI can't respond to the GP directly, but it is a very normal word in veterinary medicine when talking about a reproductive-age female dog.
- OJFord 6y agoNo it hasn't, stop giggling at the back of the class. The only thing that's arguably changed is the extent to which 'dog' is a genderless generic term.
- ambivalents 6y agoThank you for sharing this. Regarding behavior, do intact male dogs also attract aggressive behavior towards them? My (intact male) dog isn't aggressive, but a few times now other dogs have attacked him (not resulting in serious injury, but was super scary). I was told by a trainer that he could be emitting hormones that cause this behavior in other dogs.
- aerosmile 6y agoIn short, yes. Boarding places require neutering for that reason even if your dog passes all behavioral tests.
- projektfu 6y agoYes, and it could simply be a matter of things like postural cues that you think aren't aggressive but nevertheless are asserting behavior that other dogs don't like.
- nradov 6y agoMy father-in-law had an intact Labrador Retriever show dog who escaped over a high fence and swam across a large river in order to visit a bitch in heat. They found him days later, filthy and with some minor injuries. The instinct to reproduce will drive dogs to do crazy things.
- Ma8ee 6y agoIt’s not only dogs. I remember some stupid shit I did as a teenager.
- smusamashah 6y agoA friend in military told us that as part of their training they are given injections to curb sexual desire. They can't even masturbate. Its given regularly every month or so until their training is complete.
- swebs 6y agoThat's an urban legend. Some variations also say the drug is in the food.
- staticman2 6y agoExtremley strenuously exercise is known to lower testosterone. I wonder if people believe this urban legend because their bodies are in shock and they lose libido due to basic training exercises?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 6y agoI'm an adult male and if it weren't for the corporate soul sucking 9-5 job eating away most of my time and energy I'd still engage in stupid shit just for mating. I think males are biologically programed to stay in heat way longer than females, at least until the first baby is born, just that modern society has figured how to tame us by placing us in a financial rat race where it all about chasing material things, hobbies and lifestyles or the next big career rather than the next potential partner. As a kid I never really understood the point Fight Club was trying to make but as an adult, I do now.
- jeromenerf 6y ago> I would love to just recommend people be responsible adults. Always a good recommendation. Neutering dogs and cats seems the consequence of "owning" in an urban or otherwise densely populated area. It feels wrong to me. I would personally get a farm before I get pets. Then, I have horses. Neutering males is common here for our breeds, as stallions are pretty difficult to manage. It is said that Portuguese breeds are often left intact, as a result of behavioral selection.
- Balgair 6y agoHey, just want to say thanks for being on HN! It's great to have other voices outside of SW here.