5 ms·

Has anyone else noticed that when conversations about “we need x word for y concept” arise, the German language nearly always seems to be the one that has somet

Has anyone else noticed that when conversations about “we need x word for y concept” arise, the German language nearly always seems to be the one that has something similar or already present?

jhoechtl 6y ago
I can confirm that verschlimmbessern is a perfect fit to describe the situation. Englisch took Angst and Zeitgeist. Take that one too?
- bsanr2 6y ago
  Angst and zeitgeist don't decimate the American tongue. If you want us to adopt verschlimmbessern, drop one of the Ms and one of the Ses and get Muppets to sing a song about it.
  - jhoechtl 6y ago
    You made me smile on a foggy cold and way to early morning before coffee. Take that upvote!
    - bsanr2 6y ago
      Happy to provide a vital service to society.
foundart 6y ago
Yes they have noticed it! To the extent that I have seen articles in which people explain in detail concepts for which they hope a concise German word exists. For example: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/concepts-for-which-i-suspect-germans-have-a-single-word https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/concepts-for-which-i-sus...
dTal 6y ago
That's a very interesting observation. I wonder if there's a word for it...
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  Have you noticed how much entropy goes into a German word? They certainly do have a word for every concept.
amelius 6y ago
I read somewhere (on HN?) that Italians speak faster than Germans because their words contain less information, so in the end they still communicate the same amount of information per minute. Italians and Germans were used in the example because they were the two extremes.
- ajxs 6y ago
  Is this RISC vs CISC human language philosophy?
- cgag 6y ago
  Nice graph of syllables per second vs bits of information per second here: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/28/why-are-some-languages-spoken-faster-than-others https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/28/why-are-...
  - joycian 6y ago
    What's with the bimodal distributions for German there?
- Talanes 6y ago
  I was reading a conversation trying to work out the most information that you could fit into a one word command (the limit of the Dungeons and Dragons Command spell.) Italian was floated as the language that could be stretched the furthest, due to being able to compound verbs. So it really depends on exactly what kind of information you are trying to package and how. Different languages compress differently.
scrooched_moose 6y ago
It's because the German language is highly compound. Take any descriptive phrase, remove the spaces, and you have a new word. In English, it'd be the equivalent of taking "make worse by improving" and turning it into "makeworsebyimproving". When I was learning German, we were taught the language has far fewer core nouns than English (4000 vs 20,000 is stuck in my head, but this is going back years), but then they bash them together to get the rest of the concepts.
- toastal 6y ago
  And we anglophones can make descriptive-with-more-readability words by comparison through the use of hyphenated adjectives.
  - vram22 6y ago
    Off the cuff chain-associating / goal-seeking: descriptive-with-more-readability ... Common Lisp ... Lisp ... parentheses ... angled brackets ... Angles ... Anglophones.
- manicdee 6y ago
  German is the perfect language for engineers and KSP players.
- pwdisswordfish0 6y ago
  As a German I’ve always found “verschlimmbessern” very clunky and awkward, but it is pretty widespread, so you get used to it. That’s usually not the case in discussions like this, for example the famous “Wanderlust” isn’t really a thing in German, although it is a feasible, natural sounding compound. An English neologism might be something like “imporse(n)” or maybe “imperiorate”. Personally that sounds more sophisticated to me. “Imporsement” or “imperioration” could be the nominalisations (what’s the noun for “worsen”?).
  - pnutjam 6y ago
    In English, is suggest unimproved or updegraded.
sneak 6y ago
German has no word for "silly". "Funny", "stupid", et c, yes, but no "silly".
- valenterry 6y ago
  It has no 1:1 translation, but that's true the other way around too for a lot of nuanced words. E.g.: silly, ridiculous, foolish In Germany you have: albern, lächerlich, töricht They are quite close to the English ones, but not exact the same. It's the other way around too: English doesn't have words that match the German ones 1:1

Has anyone else noticed that when conversations about “we need x word for y concept” arise, the German language nearly always seems to be the one that has something similar or already present?

jhoechtl 6y ago

I can confirm that verschlimmbessern is a perfect fit to describe the situation. Englisch took Angst and Zeitgeist. Take that one too?

bsanr2 6y ago
Angst and zeitgeist don't decimate the American tongue. If you want us to adopt verschlimmbessern, drop one of the Ms and one of the Ses and get Muppets to sing a song about it.
- jhoechtl 6y ago
  You made me smile on a foggy cold and way to early morning before coffee. Take that upvote!
  - bsanr2 6y ago
    Happy to provide a vital service to society.

foundart 6y ago

Yes they have noticed it! To the extent that I have seen articles in which people explain in detail concepts for which they hope a concise German word exists. For example: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/concepts-for-which-i-suspect-germans-have-a-single-word https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/concepts-for-which-i-sus...

dTal 6y ago

That's a very interesting observation. I wonder if there's a word for it...

marcosdumay 6y ago
Have you noticed how much entropy goes into a German word? They certainly do have a word for every concept.

amelius 6y ago

I read somewhere (on HN?) that Italians speak faster than Germans because their words contain less information, so in the end they still communicate the same amount of information per minute. Italians and Germans were used in the example because they were the two extremes.

ajxs 6y ago
Is this RISC vs CISC human language philosophy?
cgag 6y ago
Nice graph of syllables per second vs bits of information per second here: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/28/why-are-some-languages-spoken-faster-than-others https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/28/why-are-...
- joycian 6y ago
  What's with the bimodal distributions for German there?
Talanes 6y ago
I was reading a conversation trying to work out the most information that you could fit into a one word command (the limit of the Dungeons and Dragons Command spell.) Italian was floated as the language that could be stretched the furthest, due to being able to compound verbs. So it really depends on exactly what kind of information you are trying to package and how. Different languages compress differently.

scrooched_moose 6y ago

It's because the German language is highly compound. Take any descriptive phrase, remove the spaces, and you have a new word. In English, it'd be the equivalent of taking "make worse by improving" and turning it into "makeworsebyimproving". When I was learning German, we were taught the language has far fewer core nouns than English (4000 vs 20,000 is stuck in my head, but this is going back years), but then they bash them together to get the rest of the concepts.

toastal 6y ago
And we anglophones can make descriptive-with-more-readability words by comparison through the use of hyphenated adjectives.
- vram22 6y ago
  Off the cuff chain-associating / goal-seeking: descriptive-with-more-readability ... Common Lisp ... Lisp ... parentheses ... angled brackets ... Angles ... Anglophones.
manicdee 6y ago
German is the perfect language for engineers and KSP players.
pwdisswordfish0 6y ago
As a German I’ve always found “verschlimmbessern” very clunky and awkward, but it is pretty widespread, so you get used to it. That’s usually not the case in discussions like this, for example the famous “Wanderlust” isn’t really a thing in German, although it is a feasible, natural sounding compound. An English neologism might be something like “imporse(n)” or maybe “imperiorate”. Personally that sounds more sophisticated to me. “Imporsement” or “imperioration” could be the nominalisations (what’s the noun for “worsen”?).
- pnutjam 6y ago
  In English, is suggest unimproved or updegraded.

sneak 6y ago

German has no word for "silly". "Funny", "stupid", et c, yes, but no "silly".

valenterry 6y ago
It has no 1:1 translation, but that's true the other way around too for a lot of nuanced words. E.g.: silly, ridiculous, foolish In Germany you have: albern, lächerlich, töricht They are quite close to the English ones, but not exact the same. It's the other way around too: English doesn't have words that match the German ones 1:1