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Lonely people's brains are different due to excess of imaginary social contact
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoExplains the elaborate backstories folks create about their cats.
- Jtsummers 6y agoSir Simon "Tux" Cuddlywhiskers the Third, of the Macon Cuddlywhiskers, has led a very interesting life. That's all.
- onlyrealcuzzo 6y agoLOL - what is an example of an elaborate backstory about a cat? I'm not familiar with this, but it sounds hilarious.
- fizwhiz 6y agoBruh you woke up and chose violence
- tt433 6y agoI knew a relatively lonely man who likewise named all of his cars
- gnulinux 6y agoHmm, I'm a very lonely person [1] and have a cat, but I never thought of a back story for my cat, nor have I seen anyone with this. Can you give an example from pop culture? [1] (I saw my friends a grand total of 4 times in 2020, pandemic has been awful for my mental health lmfao)
- grawprog 6y agoNot pop culture, but we were bored one day years ago and came up with a story about our cats being the proprietors of a hash bar on a flying ship of adventurers where they dressed and talked like 1920's mobsters running a speakeasy.
- GreenWatermelon 6y agoThat's more like giving your car a role playing character in a TTRPG.
- onlyrealcuzzo 6y agoYour cat sounds really cool!
- bitwize 6y agoThat could come right out of a SNES-era JRPG. Like, Cid and his airship crew of mobster Cait Siths.
- dunnevens 6y agoI made a back story for my dog. My newfie loved to inspect things. I'd come home with groceries. If I let her inspect (look & sniff) each bag, she'd be thrilled. When she'd find an interesting smell, she'd investigate it thoroughly. Would keep going long after the other dogs gave up. She also loved keeping things in order. She didn't like it when the other cats and dogs would sometimes be chaotic. And she had some sort of code involving behavior: she was never selfish. If another cat or dog was already on her favorite pillow or eating her favorite snack, she'd let them have it. But if someone tried to cheat her or blatantly take something of hers, she'd react with growls and barks. She was clearly lawful good. So we made up a long backstory. She was once a cop. Spent a lot of years street patrolling and getting to know everyone in her neighborhood. She was well liked, even by the street criminals. She was always fair to everyone she met. Even those who would not return fairness to her. This all paid off. She eventually made detective. She was good investigating things. But something happened. She was backstabbed by corrupt people on the force. Got too close to breaking a case that would have taken down not only a major cartel, but also the cops who sold out. She was murdered. Then reincarnated as a Newfoundland. She can't remember her past life clearly. But the desire to sniff everything out, and the desire to take care of everyone while keeping them in line, somehow persisted. She's driven to do something she doesn't completely understand, but she did it the best she could. Her companion in life was an aussie who had a much simpler back story. She fit the manic pixie girl stereotype. Just pure chaos, pranks, and she liked stealing from and manipulating the poor newfie. They were a very odd couple: the by-the-rules ex-cop and the sarcastic girl who liked silly & mean jokes in equal proportion. But out on the trail, the aussie would put her silliness aside, and would work diligently with the newfie to solve whatever mystery they found. The typical odd couple of a modern police procedural. I've now written multiple paragraphs about my dogs' stories. I guess that's my own way of reacting to the sheer loneliness of this year.
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- sjg007 6y agoKids like to make up stories and play make believe with things. In that sense I wonder why we don't see that as normal for adults to do so? I mean, if you write it down it becomes a book...
- Jtsummers 6y agoThis is, essentially, how it happened with our cats. It's kind of a continuation of what happened with the pets my sister and I had growing up. We (as kids) made up stories, and our parents participated to some extent. We used to joke about making a book, "The Secret Life of Walter Kitty" (of course, someone else has done it, just checked). As adults, we just kind of continued it because, why not? It's entertaining and amusing just like any other story telling activity.
- vinhboy 6y agoI can't tell if I can trust this site or not, because it looks like one of those fake news site created to generate ad clicks. But I guess pretty much all the local news site look like this now. Sad state of the web we are living through. Also interesting to note that the lead photo for loneliness in this article makes it seem all sexy and desirable.
- jetrink 6y agoThere's a link to the Nature paper in the first sentence, so this site is already doing better than 98% of local news outlets.
- Raphmedia 6y ago> Also interesting to note that the lead photo for depression in this article makes it seem all sexy and desirable. Could it be that you personally find the model sexy and desirable? There is nothing inherently attractive about a person sitting alone in an uncomfortable chair next to an empty couch. The model even has a closed posture and is slouching, which are a nonverbal messages that indicates anxiety. Their half dressed state also indicates a depressed state.
- GreenWatermelon 6y agoGiven my (21m) loneliness, I find pretty much every young women sexy and desirable. Not that I have a chance with any!
- bitwize 6y agoHey, young fellow. Your chances are probably better than you think, if my experience is any indication, but your approach may be way off. 1) Start lifting weights. Helps boost your confidence and your T levels, making you more attractive. 2) If you do not yet practice the rudiments of grooming, do so. Shower every day, shave, comb your hair. Make sure your clothes are clean and you don't smell. 3) The key to engaging with women is: when you encounter a new one, always be kind to her and treat her with the basic amount of courtesy and respect due another human being but no more. Avoid fawning over her, no matter how cute or hot you find her. Keep it in the back of your brain that she's just a woman, just a human, and may be as messed up as you are if not more so. Hold the door open for her, help her load her groceries, or whatever -- then disengage. If you get a smile or thank you, savor it. A smile or thank you from a pretty girl is a tiny gift, and we accept gifts graciously and appreciatively without hoping for more. It's kind of this weird tension. You can't give off "looking for a date" vibes. If a girl is to any extent cute she will know it, and she will be able to use that to control the interaction if you seem too desperate. The vibe to cultivate is basically pleasant, but somewhat aloof. Make her feel like she has to work to prove herself to you. If she's at all interested, she will put in the work. You've gotta do this with multiple women, keeping them in your friend circle while not giving off thar you want to get closer -- that is not until they signal they want the same (and they will in unambiguous terms!). And it may take years to get there. Anyone who tells you finding a good partner is quick or easy is selling something.
- Flex247A 6y agoSince the last few weeks, I have been having a lot of imaginary conversations with my friends. Sometimes I actually tend to act them out: for example nodding my head every now and then or lip syncing. Or that I am usually awake for an hour while in bed because I cannot end the imaginary conversation. Is it normal to have these conversations all the time?
- germinalphrase 6y agoI don’t have any background to assert whether it’s normal or not - but FWIW I do that regularly.
- adamlangsner 6y agoI do this. Sometimes it's in preparation for a conversation I know I'm going to have soon. Sometimes it's just because someone's on my mind and maybe I have things I want to say to them but don't currently have the opportunity to. I don't know if it's bad. But I don't like that I do it. And I wish I did it less.
- Flex247A 6y agoI have had similar imaginary conversations like yours. But I am concerned because these conversations run in my mind for like several hours, even when I'm writing code.
- seph-reed 6y agoDelusional coping mechanisms seem to be a pretty rampant aspect of loneliness. You see it a lot in the homeless population. But it also effects anyone who spends too much time alone. Reminds me a lot of bush-fever, where you've been living out in the woods for so long you start to get a bit nutty. Highly recommended life experience btw.
- nerdponx 6y agoI was a chronically lonely child/teenager and I spent several adult years where my primary social interaction was at work and online. I never lacked close friends, but I didn't see or interact with real life people that often. This article resonates with me in a very big way.
- seph-reed 6y agoI'm sorry to hear that. For what it's worth, you seem like a pretty exceptional being.
- nerdponx 6y agoThanks, I like to think I'm at least a decent person. And I don't even think of it as a negative. More just a part of how I came to be who I am. I am fortunate to have several good close friends, many more warm acquaintances across the continent, and a good number of family members that I genuinely like. I just defaulted to being alone and I didn't learn how to interact with my peers in a social context until later than most.
- bserge 6y agoWhy would you recommend it? I'd give anything to have a normal social life... except something's fucked in my brain and I can't make any connections. I thought people just don't like me, but apparently some do, except everything ends up in nothing, and I don't know why.
- seph-reed 6y ago
- qntty 6y agoArticle seems to be conflating subjective feelings of loneliness with being alone.
- war1025 6y agoThis headline immediately made me think of the "tulpa" concept I came across a few months back. It's basically creating an imaginary friend, except "different" somehow? Tried to find a decent representative article or video, but didn't really feel comfortable linking to any of them. The biggest impression I got from looking into the concept was that these people were profoundly lonely.
- lliilliillii 6y agoThe one question I have is where the data comes from that constructs most of these internal experiences. Is it mainly information in near recent experiences or observations, is it an aggregate that is somewhat in relative isolation to observable 'reality' that develops over time and if so, are there objective types of experiences that promote mutation of the internal experience? Can some of those consist of more internal experiences, and if so, at what threshold does such an internal experience become a self-sustaining feed back loop?
- jetrink 6y agoI really liked the episode of Reply All about tulpas. It's not easy to listen to though. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/49hr6k https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/49hr6k
- war1025 6y agoThis is very interesting...
- war1025 6y agoJust finished the podcast. I thought the husband had an entirely valid request of "Your tulpa can't be in a sexual relationship with someone else" Obviously I don't know anything about the situation beyond what is in the podcast, but up until that point it seemed like a "my husband won't accept my quirks" type of thing. After they read his excerpt, I was much more inclined to think she was really the one at fault for their relationship falling apart. All I can say is I'm glad I'm not having to deal with that situation.
- YinglingLight 6y ago>The study compared the MRI scans of people who said they “often” feel lonely with the scans of people do not report feeling that way. I'm curious about how a sizeable fraction of the population "lacking inner thought" https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pristine-inner-experience/201110/not-everyone-conducts-inner-speech https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pristine-inner-exper... throws off that figure. It raises a disturbing question: what feelings can/cannot be had if you not the conscientiousness to experience it?
- wackro 6y agoAs far as I can tell, nothing is said in the article or in the paper about causality. The researchers suggest that lonely people's thoughts are directed inwards due to a lack of social experiences, and this is what alters the brain. But I wonder how many people just have brains like this, and feel lonely as a consequence?
- umvi 6y agoYes, I would have liked to see data on the subject's marital/relationship status, for example. Completely anecdotally, but all of the people I know in real life who I consider to be lonely based on social cues and interactions are either widows, widowers, maids or bachelors, and I could tell all of them longed for regular meaningful interaction with a partner... There might be a few cases where loneliness is "caused" by a problem in the brain, but I would wager the vast majority of cases are caused by what I described above - lack of regular meaningful interaction with a partner over an extended period.
- bonoboTP 6y agoI can attest that I am wittier and verbally "quicker" when in a relationship or have more friends. In those cases even when I happen to be alone, I notice things to comment on, and can always find something to say. It's like... how will I remember all these interesting things I've seen or have happened to me and will want to tell my friends or girlfriend. When I'm single and without many friends around, I rather just slide past life. I don't latch onto interesting stuff as much. I have my thought processes and goals and since nobody asks how my day was, there's no point in remembering minor inconsequential stuff. But as you don't need to remember them, you don't even notice them. Like even a mundane task of taking a package to the post will be more of an emotional adventurous roller coaster when I have people in my life and rather a goal-directed straightforward thing when not.
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- strogonoff 6y ago
- Raphmedia 6y ago> This network is responsible for a wide range of mental processes that take place when the brain is at rest. These processes are often referred to as the “inner voice”, or the “self.” Now I am wondering if my "aphantasia" also explains why I rarely feel lonely. Could it be that people who are able to see and hear their friends in their mind are more likely to miss them?
- astrobe_ 6y agoFrom introspection alone, I think that people that rarely feel lonely are that way because they have a richer imagination or "inner world". Does your aphantasia prevent you from day-dreaming, for instance? I would be curious to know if "lone wolves" exhibit the same brain features as those who feel alone (which would suggest that they are actually lying to themselves?) or if they exhibit different features, or if they are the same as people who can feel lonely but don't because they are "socially satisfied".
- Raphmedia 6y ago> Does your aphantasia prevent you from day-dreaming, for instance? I can "day-think" aka get lost in logical thoughts. I don't have the inner voice either, so it's less like reading a text and somewhat more like reading code. No narration, just a stream of... invisible "variables". It's hard to explain without having experienced what other people see or hear, I have no point of reference. I also have the bad habit of forgetting people. "Out of sight, out of mind", except I do have object persistence. I imagine it is easier to randomly think about someone when you can hear or see them at will.
- astrobe_ 6y agoI've just realized I was trying to imagine, image-in your experience, oh the irony...
- Raphmedia 6y agoTo be honest, Pen & Paper games have lost their appeal now that I know I'm the only one at the table not seeing anything. Same for authors who write lengthy descriptions of environments and characters in books. I just figured that some people enjoyed to keeping notes of the descriptions -- architects maybe. I always skipped them. On the opposite of that, VR is really amazing. Being able to keep my VR headset just above my eyes and look into an imaginary world at the same time as the real one? Simply mind blowing. I guess that's how people feel when they picture things. You could try looking through an unplugged VR headset. You would see how I feel without any images!
- jpm_sd 6y agoI get all my imaginary social contact by listening to podcasts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasocial_interaction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasocial_interaction https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1273792-me-irl https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1273792-me-irl
- fouronnes3 6y agoOff topic but there's something to be said about using memes to express a point concisely. It would take a few dozen words to express what your second link does surprisingly efficiently. It's a weird new kind of language compression.
- thinkingemote 6y agoAlso see emojis and at a better but more niche example, twitch emotes where, for example, a selection of happy looking emotes may differentiate between a range of emotional descriptions of good/happy. It's a form of language.
- Shacklz 6y agoFound this to be extremely helpful for PR-reviews; I have sometimes difficulties when writing sentences in order to not come across too harsh/snarky/negative etc., but with GIFs/pictures, it's easy to involve some humor while still bringing the point across.
- maedla 6y agoA picture is worth a thousand words :)
- bserge 6y agoDefinitely fancier these days, but meme images are as old as civilization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictogram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictogram
- miguelmota 6y agoWhen I was living alone for a few years I would speak out my thoughts rather than in my head. That lead to having conversations with my self and then having conversations with fictional characters. I think also being alone increased anxiety and heightened sense of fear. I always wondered if this would have lead to a form of schizophrenia in the long term if I kept living alone.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y agoI agree with the paranoia thing. I've learned to curb that with developing a mentality of "rolling with the punches, but trying to be prepared for them."
- avancemos 6y agoVR
- swalsh 6y agoI really honestly think there's something to this. Playing with others in VR has such a different feeling. I was once in a game where the whole team got blown up by a grenade, and then the next game we're all friends joking and laughing with each other in the kind of way that has never happened to me in a pancake game.
- d33lio 6y agoAfter spending a lot of time alone (mostly during quarantine - ironically in NYC, a place I moved to in March given it's lower barrier of entry to all things social), as someone who pulls more to the side of introvert but can be socially functional in group settings, I'm pretty sure that being alone with less social contact causes me far less stress and anxiety. So in other words, I'm finding that although there are benefits to being social, the fact that I've saved boat loads of money and have less stress from worthless small talk seems like an ideal way to live. Which sucks, because I've also realized that networking is the only true "hack" in essence to get past the drudgery of coding interviews / otherwise opaque career ladders. I delineate my introvert / extrovert brain by classifying people I deem "interesting enough to talk to" and "people I'd rather not talk to". For this reason, work interactions always seem to go better than off hand social interactions. If someone is condescending or rude then I'd just rather not waste time talking to them. At this point in my life I don't really feel it's worth the effort to force social interaction in either direction, some people like you others won't - dating also gets easier if you take this approach. Something I'm curious of is if "lonely" brains are less healthy? Also, for reference - the best point of comparison for social anxiety in my case is analogous to why I don't see the point in fancy cars. I drive a 2001 nissan, but I never worry about where I park it, if it gets dented or worry about someone keying it. If I drove a lambo, I'd constantly be worried (even subconsciously) about this kind of thing.
- agumonkey 6y ago> less social contact causes me far less stress and anxiety I used to be recluse, then had a social epiphany, temporarily .. so I'm now oddly situated because I remember the need and joy of social bond a bit but I'm back to hyperanxious social mode. Which means I tend to go back to walking alone because it's so lighter. One anecdote, 10 years ago, I went to a birthday party, a time where I hated social gatherings pretty much. Yet the day after I felt 'replenished' of somethings. As if my internal world couldn't satisfy me fully and even dreaded parties were benefitial.
- leetcrew 6y agofor me there is definitely a "grass is greener" effect with friends. I seem to go through an endless cycle of having either too many or too few. I prefer to spend most of my day-to-day alone, but I feel very lonely when I don't have enough local friends to reliably find a social event on friday/saturday nights. on the flip side, having too many friends quickly becomes stressful. I don't know how to gracefully handle the situation where I get invited to do more things in a week than I have the social energy for. sometimes it gets to the point where just replying to all the invitations saps most of my social "budget" for that week. I end up doing a lot of stuff that I don't really want to do just to avoid declining someone's invitations over and over. eventually, I semi-intentionally let friendships fizzle out and forgo forging new ones (since I am still in the "excess" mindset). then I am back to square one and the cycle restarts. I think there is a sort of critical mass effect with friends. when I only have one or two, I have to try really hard to make a third. once I hit a certain number of friends with overlapping circles of their own, it's easy to make new friends whenever I want. but then it starts snowballing fast and suddenly I find myself in a deluge of messages and invitations that I don't want. I'd love to be able to hover in that sweet spot, but I don't know how to make that happen.
- lonleythrowaway 6y agoI would consider myself pretty lonely, and I do have a very prominent inner monologue. A normal day I have dozens of imagined debates, presentations or conversations on varying topics. Some particular topics have been on the docket for years at a time, before enacting them in real life (finally clearing them away). The intensity seems to vary based on my mood and wether I'm alone. I went on a week long roadtrip with some friends, and realised after a day or two that I wasn't thinking nearly as much. It was as if I couldn't. Even if I wasn't with them for a few hours. My regular dark hole of "I'll just work for 50 years and then die alone" was not accessible, even if I tried. I've also had almost the same exact feeling when on a pretty strong acid trip, not being able to hear my inner monologue. That time it was more scary, but also really interesting and relaxing. Microdosing LSD brought most of that feeling back (not sure if placebo though), making me more focused and less sad. I'm guessing getting to that state is a part of what mediation is all about, but I haven't really figured that out yet.
- xgb84j 6y agoI found the book "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle helpful in controlling or getting rid of harmful inner dialog.
- loves_mangoes 6y agoI'm super curious, could you explain more what kind of experience you had where you couldn't hear your inner monologue? Were you unable to access the inner voice at all, or somehow unable to think in words at all? I'm not familiar with meditation, though I've always been able to blank out my thoughts for a little while. But that's never been my experience on acid, I can hardly stop the racing thoughts for a few seconds!
- bonoboTP 6y agoDo you always have a monologe going on? Say you now put down your phone or close your laptop and just stare out of your head and look at what's in front of you. Will you have linguistically formulated sentences "coming to you" without pause?
- malandrew 6y agoIt's interesting to consider this within the context of societal rights of passage involving extended solitude such as the walkabout in Aboriginal culture. You basically have a situation where the community invested in an activity that grew this part of the brain. I'm wondering if it also explains deification of animals in many primitive cultures where solitude was more common because there were fewer people and more opportunities for solitude.
- werber 6y agoThis was one of the most validating things I’ve read lately. I am normally extremely outgoing and due to current circumstances I’m more or less a shut in. I’ve been acting out in my brain social interactions. Despite actively chatting and calling people with my friends who are in relationships or quarantined with family, they have trouble following what in my current mental state makes sense. It’s happened at work as well, which is remote right now, and I was actually given a call to see if I was mentally ok. Just seeing some preliminary findings about this makes me feel so much more valid in what I’ve been going through. At the risk of being crude, Fuck loneliness
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- pantelisk 6y agoWhen I was younger I couldn't stand loneliness. I couldn't stand staying in on Friday night. Fear of missing out, even if I didn't even know what was I exactly missing out would burn too strong. Now in my 30s I love being alone. I can even go camping by myself in the wilderness alone, or hit a bar (pre-covid of course) by myself and not only be happy that way, but prefer it too. Sometimes I would go out by myself a few hours beforehand before meeting up with friends, to get that "I am doing things alone" fix. I am not sure what changed and I became this way. I didn't work towards it or strive for it, I just grew older I guess. So I came up with a theory. Not even a theory, more like an opinion... That when we are younger we rely on society to survive. Without a support cycle, the elements will overtake us, and our animalistic instincts light up. Our identity is tied to our social circle. But as we get more confident and more comfortable with who we are, that deep fear of loneliness decreases. I am more alone now but less lonely.
- titanomachy 6y agoI camp in the wilderness with friends pretty often and thought it would be fun to try doing it alone once. I didn't sleep at all, I kept imagining terrible things in the night coming to get me. Maybe I'll try again in my thirties.
- mpaal 6y agoIn 2019 I went on a solo biketour and it involved a lot of nigths in a tent. While campgrounds were rather cosy as just the knowledge that others are there brought me comfort, some wildcamping spots were much more unsettling. For me it was a fear of the wilderness and just hearing some noises in the middle of the night was... tense. Such nights were usually on high alert and quite restless. 10/10 will do it again ;)
- munificent 6y agoA few months ago, I took an overnight trip out to the woods by myself. I slept in the bed of my truck on an abandoned forestry road somewhat deep into a state forest. I went with no pre-planned destination so I just turned onto unpaved forestry roads randomly until I eventually got to a quiet dead end that petered out. My wife knew the state forest I was in, but no one on Earth had a more precise location for me than that. It was a little nervewracking and spooky even though in truth I was only about a twenty minute drive from the edge of the park and civilization. To know that if I slipped and broke a leg or something I'd be screwed for a couple of days until a crew could find me. But I experienced it as a good kind of anxiety. I deliberately wanted to get outside of my comfort zone and spend a little time getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. It was an absolutely rewarding experience and one of the highlights of 2020 for me. I woke up the next morning refreshed, centered, and excited to return home to my family. A quote I think about a lot is J. A. Shedd's, "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
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- realjohng 6y agoI think loneliness is generally a negative, and I'm glad it's finally getting the scientific attention it deserves. It's especially important to heed articles like these for us computer-types, who are inclined towards working and living alone. Yes, its good to be alone to recharge, but watch for the negative signals and schedule a social activity into your day/week!
- maram 6y ago“Be alone, that is the secret of invention; be alone, that is when ideas are born. —Nikola Tesla
- bserge 6y agoWhere's the rest of the quote? Because it's probably something like "but always show your ideas to other people, otherwise they're fucking useless" Be alone for enough time and you'll be just as insane as poor Tesla. He didn't exactly live a good life.
- Out_of_Characte 6y agoDid Tesla care about a "good life"? You've already written him off as insane, His view on the world seems perfectly captured in his quotes and works.
- wenc 6y agoFor those who want details, here's the link to the Nature Communications paper (downloadable PDF). https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20039-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20039-w Also note loneliness is defined here as "perceived social isolation". To me, loneliness exists when there's a Δ between one's need for social interaction and the actual social interaction one gets. To close the gap, one can adjust either parameter or both: either lower one's expectations, or increase actual interaction, or both. The socially well-adjusted introvert generally comes out ahead in most situations due to the ability to regulate both parameters.
- libraryatnight 6y agoThis resonates with me as someone that spends a lot of time alone. I also find that I tend to view social interactions that I do have as more significant than the others involved if they're not also loners. I have to remember that most people go to lunch with others, have small gatherings, etc fairly often (outside the pandemic times). It's not generally as memorable or significant to them. I'll think back fondly on an evening dinner party and remember every detail, friends that go to such things every weekend remember them less significantly. I also sometimes think of people I haven't spoken to in a long time as still being relevant to me, and have to remember they likely don't think of me at all - I don't mean that in a self deprecating or sad way. It's been a good thing to be aware of, sometimes someone will cross my mind and I'll do a sort of social inventory and file them away as "dormant" lol
- truetraveller 6y agoI talk to myself almost daily. This is very beneficial. I am not an introvert, neither am I "mental". There's always some debate or presentation going on. Sometimes I'm singing in front of a 50k-person audience. Doing this actually makes me super-confident in real life. I basically simulate "stage-fright", as well as rebuttals to common arguments; and in real-life, I have no stage freight, and I have great rebuttals! I call this "pre-stressing". Similar to how concerete is pre-stressed. "It is substantially prestressed during production, in a manner that strengthens it against tensile forces which will exist when in service.". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestressed_concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestressed_concrete.
- RAB1138 6y agoThe relationship between the Default Mode Network and a rich inner life seems like a reasonable enough connection, as does the relationship between DMN activity and loneliness. What would be fascinating to me is an exploration of causality. Can feelings of loneliness be increased by an upregulation (dTCS) of Default Mode Network activity? Can they be reduced by a downregulation? Can either of those be performed without substantially changing the subjects conscious qualia or internal states? This will be really interesting to watch in a few years.
- bovermyer 6y agoI don't consider myself lonely. However, I sometimes find myself getting wrapped up in hypothetical, imaginary social situations (especially when lying awake in bed) - usually reacting angrily. Not sure what that's about.
- offtop5 6y agoThe older I get the more I noticed a need for exclusion. At this point if I get a girls number, if anything is off about her I'll almost immediately delete it. I recognize the wrong person can derail my entire life. Took alot of pain to get to this point. It's better to few friends than those who will bring harm
- ronyfadel 6y agoWhat about compassion? No one’s perfect and we’re all messed up in different ways.
- offtop5 6y agoLong ago I was getting evicted and the girl I was dating simply didn't want to deal with it. I'd tell my sister to avoid any guy going though an eviction or without stable housing, likewise I don't get involved with anyone who isn't in a good situation. And wada ya know, I'm a senior level engineer now, have had a few great relationships, and I'm in such a great place. But I also understand how fragile it all is. And with that exclusion is necessary.
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- Razengan 6y agoDoes anybody else refer to themselves as "you" and "we" more often than "I" or "me" during their inner monologues?
- dinkleberg 6y agoFor sure, I tend to use “we”. I like to think it’s more the royal “we” rather than a golem-like split personality.
- jancsika 6y ago> “In the absence of desired social experiences,” the authors write, “lonely individuals may be biased towards internally directed cognitions,” as if “to fill the social void.” At least in my experience, those "internally directed cognitions" create a level of detail in expressed ideas which attract others to converse more with me. Did I just figure out that I'm the Kwisatz Haderach, or don't most people do this?
- anti-shill 6y agothis quarantine stuff is perfect for giving me time to build a rich inner world
- jonhohle 6y ago> “In the absence of desired social experiences,” the authors write, “lonely individuals may be biased towards internally directed cognitions,” as if “to fill the social void.” This sounds like a line Igor or Morgana would say in Persona 5.
- penguin_booze 6y agoEvery day, I think about the brilliant humans sharing their knowledge on the internet. As someone with virtually no social interaction, it's the pleasure of learning that keeps me going!
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- murat124 6y agoTalking (as opposed to quietly thinking) is the best tool at your disposal to keep sanity. If you live alone do it.
- karmakaze 6y ago> For example, they are more likely to call up past memories and ponder future scenarios. This may be a mechanism to help them escape from their loneliness. and > “In the absence of desired social experiences,” the authors write, “lonely individuals may be biased towards internally directed cognitions,” as if “to fill the social void.” I would say they have this exactly backwards. The act of conjuring up these desired scenarios while not being in such a situation 'creates' the feeling of loneliness. So the sequence as I see it is: person likes company, person has free time to ponder and imagines social situations, then feels lonely. I also recall interactions and play out future possible situations or memories. I don't however long for them, rather it's usually more analytical as what should I do if that should come to pass or what could I have done differently/better. It's not that I want to be in those situations. I do miss diversity of activity alone or socially.
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- wintorez 6y agoI think we'll gradually evolve from a social species like chimpanzees to a solitary one like tigers and orangutans.
- shruubi 6y agoI appreciate my loneliness. For me, even though I feel bad, that feeling of loneliness has become my normal and it feels like I'm in my "safe space".
- austincheney 6y agoThe study compared the MRI scans of people who said they “often” feel lonely with the scans of people do not report feeling that way. This feels like a faulty approach. There is a world of difference between being alone and feeling alone. You can feel alone without being alone, for example. I am wrapping up my fifth military deployment and as such have spent a considerable amount of time actually alone compared to other adults. From numerous points of observation some adults are more capable of performing, and even possibly appreciating, time apart from other adults more than others. Some people simply cannot handle it and literally go crazy. If the study does not account for such a foundational distinction I can’t, in good faith, consider the results valid. This distinction is hard to appreciate until you have been alone for an extended period and observed differences of performance relative to other people.
- eyelidlessness 6y agoIt’s not faulty at all if the study is focused on the subset of people who, as described, feel lonely. The study isn’t about you (or me), person who feels comfort from certain amounts of alone time.
- austincheney 6y agoRight. It isn’t about objective criteria, but instead subjective self identification not associated with external measures.
- eyelidlessness 6y agoI don’t understand what you’re trying to make objective, but if you spend lots of time alone and don’t feel lonely, and if other people spend lots or even little amounts of time alone and do feel lonely, those are objectively different emotional experiences. Why isn’t that worth understanding?
- austincheney 6y agoBecause social anxiety, of which loneliness without consideration for being alone is a part of, is already extensively researched, even its implications on neurophysiology. Being alone and the implications of resulting loneliness is radically different and less understood. Using improper measures to confuse the former for the later is bad science.
- Sideloader 6y agoA lot of the comments seem to be discussing social anxiety, which is not the same as loneliness. In my late-teens and early-20s I was extremely anxious in social situations but I did not feel lonely. Social anxiety, and the isolation that often results from it, can contribute to a person feeling lonely but the two concepts are not synonymous. As I understand it, loneliness is a psychological state that results when a person feels deprived of meaningful contact with other humans. Very few people can maintain their sanity and well-being completely cut off from their fellow humans (the proverbial hermit living contently in the wilderness with only himself for company is a rare phenomenon) but how much and what type of social contact an individual needs to maintain their equilibrium varies wildly. So, it is impossible to determine how lonely a given person is only by looking how much time they spend alone or how anxious they are in social situations.
- rramadass 6y agoA book on this interesting subject: Loneliness: Human Nature and the Need for Social Connection by John T. Cacioppo and William Patrick.
- nexus2045 6y agoThis is one of the most validating discussions I've read in a while. I think of myself as shy, lonely, maybe a little autistic. I grew up very alone as an only child, and would make up games or role play with myself to pass time in the evenings after school. As I grew older, I had many poor social experiences. I felt that the social sphere was dominated by callous, insensitive jerks who talked louder, or whoever had the wittier comeback when being egged on, and I was hurt many times, and I most likely hurt others as well! I started to resent interactions with most people, thinking that most people aren't well intentioned or are unaware. I didn't want to have small talk or banter, because I was interested in random trivia and deep emotional experiences, which don't have a place in many social situations or seem to interest much people. Obviously I have also found quite a few people who were graceful in this regard, such as the few close friends I still have.