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Hang on, isn't it simply: "the AirBnB founders were great entrepreneurs" vs "yes but look at what the actual impact of AirBnB has been"? It's fine to acknowled

Hang on, isn't it simply: "the AirBnB founders were great entrepreneurs" vs "yes but look at what the actual impact of AirBnB has been"? It's fine to acknowledge they are remarkable people, but it's also ok to say that the success of AirBnB has had huge negative consequences for many people. And it's hard to see how the former can outweigh the latter.

bergstromm466 6y ago
> the success of AirBnB has had huge negative consequences for many people. And it's hard to see how the former can outweigh the latter. 'Capitalist realism' has us trapped. Many seem to believe no alternatives are possible. No wonder we have a global mental health crisis: "Depression is the shadow side of entrepreneurial culture, what happens when magical voluntarism confronts limited opportunities. As psychologist Oliver James put it in his book The Selfish Capitalist, "in the entrepreneurial fantasy society," we are taught "that only the affluent are winners and that access to the top is open to anyone willing to work hard enough, regardless of their familial, ethnic or social background – if you do not succeed, there is only one person to blame." It's high time that the blame was placed elsewhere. We need to reverse the privatisation of stress and recognise that mental health is a political issue. [...] The radical therapist David Smail argues that Margaret Thatcher's view that there's no such thing as society, only individuals and their families, finds "an unacknowledged echo in almost all approaches to therapy". Therapies such as cognitive behaviour therapy combine a focus on early life with the self-help doctrine that individuals can become masters of their own destiny. The idea is "with the expert help of your therapist or counsellor, you can change the world you are in the last analysis responsible for, so that it no longer cause you distress" – Smail calls this view "magical voluntarism"." [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/16/mental-health-political-issue https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/16/mental...
- stainforth 6y ago
  I agree with this and I also think it's relevant to the gist of any response to the article.
reverend_gonzo 6y ago
Life has huge negative consequences for many people.
- rland 6y ago
  So we should just double down and never try to make things better?
JackFr 6y ago
> it's also ok to say that the success of AirBnB has had huge negative consequences for many people. It’s not clear to me what these are. I really don’t mean to be obtuse, but what are the ‘huge negative consequences for many people’?
- kblev 6y ago
  In many cities the choice for long term rentals is very narrow therefore expensive because most flats are AirBnBs for tourists. This has a detrimental effect on the locals. Pre-COVID that is.
  - tick_tock_tick 6y ago
    It's that just blaming Airbnb for the failures of the local government?
    - redmattred 6y ago
      Most cities have laws against individuals running unlicensed hotels out of their apartments. AirBnb chose to ignore those laws and encourage others to do so as well.
      - jbverschoor 6y ago
        Same with uber, and others..
    - monsieurbanana 6y ago
      Why not both? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Airbnb being a company, and a company seeking profits over everything else, one could argue that it's not their job to care about how they affect people. Doesn't mean we can't criticize it for it. We could go even further and say it's by criticizing Airbnb that we will push governments to regulate this new market.
    - trimbo 6y ago
      Yes, of course. That's part of the cycle. Democratically elected officials are not proactive, they respond to pressure. Calling out corporations that are acting irresponsibility creates enough pressure to have democratic governments act upon those corporations.
38932ur98u 6y ago
Honestly I'm a bit shocked as well. It's in these kinds of threads that it comes out how out of touch a lot of people on HN are with the impacts of their money, and actions. Praising airbnb founders reads like praising Trump to me. Sure, successful in the literal most possible sense, but they have no idea all the harm they are inflicting on those who live different lives than them, in places and cultures they don't understand.
- ajmadesc 6y ago
  Trump is the worst example possible. He's failed everything since the plaza IIRC. He could've left his inheritance in an index fund and had 10x what he has now.
- matthewh806 6y ago
  I agree with your comment and find it a shame you're being downvoted for expressing that opinion. I think people can't bear to have a mirror held up which exposes the naked & ugly truth. We all have individual stories about the convenience of AirBnB when visiting a new city, but I feel a lot of us are unable to see the bigger picture beyond our own selfish need for slightly increased comfort levels. We either deliberately overlook or are blind to the damage AirBnB and similar tech companies have wreaked on society. Flimsy, selfish delusions of grandeur from tech wankers who just want to print money in fastest way possible with total disregard for the destruction they cause along the way but don't worry, its "disruptive"! All to be lapped up and praised by people who were brainwashed into the Randian mode of thinking I also find it quite amusing that some people come back with these replies of "you're just bitter" "jealous of the fact that they're rich and you're not!" just continuously beating everyone over the head with this idea that there's only one true way to measure success. As if, in questioning how that success was reached and the societal, ethical and moral issues it brings up are somehow not acceptable. I guess in pursuit of the American Dream no has no time for such trivial issues.

bergstromm466 6y ago

> the success of AirBnB has had huge negative consequences for many people. And it's hard to see how the former can outweigh the latter. 'Capitalist realism' has us trapped. Many seem to believe no alternatives are possible. No wonder we have a global mental health crisis: "Depression is the shadow side of entrepreneurial culture, what happens when magical voluntarism confronts limited opportunities. As psychologist Oliver James put it in his book The Selfish Capitalist, "in the entrepreneurial fantasy society," we are taught "that only the affluent are winners and that access to the top is open to anyone willing to work hard enough, regardless of their familial, ethnic or social background – if you do not succeed, there is only one person to blame." It's high time that the blame was placed elsewhere. We need to reverse the privatisation of stress and recognise that mental health is a political issue. [...] The radical therapist David Smail argues that Margaret Thatcher's view that there's no such thing as society, only individuals and their families, finds "an unacknowledged echo in almost all approaches to therapy". Therapies such as cognitive behaviour therapy combine a focus on early life with the self-help doctrine that individuals can become masters of their own destiny. The idea is "with the expert help of your therapist or counsellor, you can change the world you are in the last analysis responsible for, so that it no longer cause you distress" – Smail calls this view "magical voluntarism"." [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/16/mental-health-political-issue https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/16/mental...

stainforth 6y ago
I agree with this and I also think it's relevant to the gist of any response to the article.

reverend_gonzo 6y ago

Life has huge negative consequences for many people.

rland 6y ago
So we should just double down and never try to make things better?

JackFr 6y ago

> it's also ok to say that the success of AirBnB has had huge negative consequences for many people. It’s not clear to me what these are. I really don’t mean to be obtuse, but what are the ‘huge negative consequences for many people’?

kblev 6y ago
In many cities the choice for long term rentals is very narrow therefore expensive because most flats are AirBnBs for tourists. This has a detrimental effect on the locals. Pre-COVID that is.
- tick_tock_tick 6y ago
  It's that just blaming Airbnb for the failures of the local government?
  - redmattred 6y ago
    Most cities have laws against individuals running unlicensed hotels out of their apartments. AirBnb chose to ignore those laws and encourage others to do so as well.
    - jbverschoor 6y ago
      Same with uber, and others..
  - monsieurbanana 6y ago
    Why not both? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Airbnb being a company, and a company seeking profits over everything else, one could argue that it's not their job to care about how they affect people. Doesn't mean we can't criticize it for it. We could go even further and say it's by criticizing Airbnb that we will push governments to regulate this new market.
  - trimbo 6y ago
    Yes, of course. That's part of the cycle. Democratically elected officials are not proactive, they respond to pressure. Calling out corporations that are acting irresponsibility creates enough pressure to have democratic governments act upon those corporations.

38932ur98u 6y ago

Honestly I'm a bit shocked as well. It's in these kinds of threads that it comes out how out of touch a lot of people on HN are with the impacts of their money, and actions. Praising airbnb founders reads like praising Trump to me. Sure, successful in the literal most possible sense, but they have no idea all the harm they are inflicting on those who live different lives than them, in places and cultures they don't understand.

ajmadesc 6y ago
Trump is the worst example possible. He's failed everything since the plaza IIRC. He could've left his inheritance in an index fund and had 10x what he has now.
matthewh806 6y ago
I agree with your comment and find it a shame you're being downvoted for expressing that opinion. I think people can't bear to have a mirror held up which exposes the naked & ugly truth. We all have individual stories about the convenience of AirBnB when visiting a new city, but I feel a lot of us are unable to see the bigger picture beyond our own selfish need for slightly increased comfort levels. We either deliberately overlook or are blind to the damage AirBnB and similar tech companies have wreaked on society. Flimsy, selfish delusions of grandeur from tech wankers who just want to print money in fastest way possible with total disregard for the destruction they cause along the way but don't worry, its "disruptive"! All to be lapped up and praised by people who were brainwashed into the Randian mode of thinking I also find it quite amusing that some people come back with these replies of "you're just bitter" "jealous of the fact that they're rich and you're not!" just continuously beating everyone over the head with this idea that there's only one true way to measure success. As if, in questioning how that success was reached and the societal, ethical and moral issues it brings up are somehow not acceptable. I guess in pursuit of the American Dream no has no time for such trivial issues.