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SpaceX Starship Users' Guide [pdf]
- ciarannolan 6y agoAll the references like "Please contact sales@spacex.com to evaluate how Starship can meet your unique needs" are pretty funny. I'd like to imagine some mid-level manager working on his little satellite project browsing this pamphlet, thinking, "Hmmm, this 'SpaceX' company looks interesting. Let me send them an email."
- todipa 6y agoI'm curious who his biggest customers will be?
- Nowado 6y agoI'm more curious who the smallest was will be.
- eitland 6y agoUS military. Besides cost and risk there's nothing preventing this from being used on earth, in fact I've already seen the use case mentioned here on HN.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoDOD is already talking to SpaceX for rapid cargo transport applications. “A military team is working with SpaceX to flesh out the prospect of shipping routes that pass through space, the head of U.S. Transportation Command said Oct. 7.” “That group could demonstrate as early as 2021 whether quickly sending cargo around the globe via space is feasible, Army Gen. Stephen R. Lyons said.” “Think about moving the equivalent of a C-17 payload anywhere on the globe in less than an hour,” Lyons said at a National Defense Transportation Association event. “Think about that speed associated with the movement of transportation of cargo and people. There is a lot of potential here.” https://www.airforcemag.com/dod-spacex-may-soon-prove-the-military-can-ship-cargo-through-space/ https://www.airforcemag.com/dod-spacex-may-soon-prove-the-mi...
- golergka 6y ago> rapid As in rapid disassembly?
- luma 6y agoAnywhere on the globe in less than an hour... plus months of planning and days of preparing the launch vehicle. How fast can one "scramble" a Starship off the ground?
- toomuchtodo 6y agoI assume fast turn around times from the Boca Chica (Texas) spaceport. Pick whichever Starship SN is refreshed and ready to go. Less Space Shuttle, more Southwest Airlines. Vehicles on the ground are vehicles not generating revenue.
- fastball 6y agoProblem is you kinda need a spaceport at the destination so that the starship can get back to you.
- 6y ago
- modeless 6y agoThere aren't enough customers to justify building something like Starship, so SpaceX created their own biggest customer with Starlink. They are also hoping to provide Earth-to-Earth passenger service to compete with airlines on long distance routes, which would be orders of magnitude more launches than any other use. It seems quite unlikely that they could compete on safety though.
- m4rtink 6y agoNot enough customers yet - if they can get it working its just a total money printer. Orbital refueling, tourism, cheap microgravity research, manufacturing and material processing or even early solar farms and habitats! Or you might even just start by launching 20 tons of coffee beans, roasting them in orbit and selling them as "Space Coffee" - it migh still be worth it with the per launch costs they have mentioned.
- bigyikes 6y agoI had a similar giggle reading about the "rideshare opportunities" > This large deployable envelope allows for the design of novel payloads, rideshare opportunities and entire constellations of satellites on a single launch. I'm totally looking forward to hailing a Starship in the Uber app. (I actually don't know what they mean by ridesharing)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- wmf 6y agoIn this context, ridesharing means piggybacking one or more small satellites on the launch of a larger, primary satellite. It can be close to "free" because the primary is going to launch anyway.
- baron816 6y agoThey might require you to have a registered spaceport in your yard to land and pick you up.
- temporalparts 6y agoIn the context of space launches, ridesharing means that multiple satellites share a single launch as opposed to the traditional 1 satellite 1 rocket approach. All Starlink satellites have been launched via ridesharing missions, with ~60 satellites per launch (and sometimes with satellites from other companies!).
- garmaine 6y ago> All Starlink satellites have been launched via ridesharing missions, with ~60 satellites per launch (and sometimes with satellites from other companies!). Actually aside from the first couple of Starlink test units, it has been the other way around. SpaceX launches dedicated Starlink missions on a regular cadence using previously flown boosters, and offsets the cost somewhat by offering rideshare opportunities. There will be 60 Starlink satellites per launch, but sometimes less if they find a rideshare.
- andrewljohnson 6y agoFake it until the mid-level managers actually have Mars needs then make it?
- fasteddie31003 6y agoI am so happy Elon Musk exists today. The world is a much more interesting place to live in. I was outside the other night on a walk and all the sudden I see a 60 satellite Starlink fleet above me and it honestly brought me to tears. He has made science fiction real and has progressed all of humanity more than anyone else alive today IMO. I can't wait for the Elon hate replies.
- whoisburbansky 6y agoSure would have been nice if all of that had been co-ordinated with astronomers so we wouldn't have to impose the negative externality of not being able to observe the heavens anymore as a price paid for faster internet.
- nitrogen 6y ago...for a little while after sunset, and mostly while a new launch of sats is deploying.
- Baeocystin 6y agoEh... There's a little more to it than that. https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/starlink-satellites-astronomy/ https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/starlink-satellit... has more details. My personal opinion is that access to the global internet is important enough to justify the light pollution in the night sky. But I understand that not everyone thinks so, and regardless, steps to limit the constellations' impact are important to take.
- threeseed 6y agoI would love to be corrected but Starlink doesn't seem like a solution for true global internet. As you can see in this diagram which is the approved ground stations for Australia: https://i.redd.it/f7u55u7edbz51.jpg https://i.redd.it/f7u55u7edbz51.jpg It is really only competing with existing internet service providers and likely will not be profitable to roll out to even the rest of Australia let alone places like Africa.
- martyvis 6y agoIt's getting real. 12.5km hop test hopefully happening within the next 24 hours. 3 Raptor engine launch, free fall in "belly-flop" orientation and powered landing with 2 engines at launch site. Proceedings scheduled to start at 1400 UTC (0800 at Boca Chica, Texas). Official SpaceX YouTube stream from 1200 UTC https://youtu.be/nf83yzzme2I https://youtu.be/nf83yzzme2I
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- imglorp 6y agoTheir channel is still quiet, maybe coming up at 4:00 CST, but Lab Padre is showing now. The channel is saying target time is 4:30 CST; NASA's WB-57 is in the air; and they've been doing some venting so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STGWOEKhrtI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STGWOEKhrtI
- justinph 6y agoThis is a genius bit of marketing.
- kukanani 6y agoIt may be marketing, but believe it or not, this is standard practice for rockets! Here's the ULA Delta IV User Guide - https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/delta-iv-user%27s-guide.pdf https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/delta-...
- m463 6y agoooops. I clicked thinking this was the starLINK users guide. surprise!
- mshroyer 6y agoDo any other launch service providers, like United Launch Alliance, make these specifications publicly available (without needing to sign an NDA or whatever)?
- kukanani 6y agoYes. Here's Delta IV: https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/delta-iv-user%27s-guide.pdf https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/delta-...
- qwertox 6y agoThis looks like what I was expecting to see. The Users Guide from SpaceX looks more like a brochure.
- ocdtrekkie 6y agoIndeed. I expect a user guide to have exact instructions on how to use a device. SpaceX's brochure doesn't even go far enough to call it a specification sheet.
- neaanopri 6y agoTo be fair, Delta IV had been flying for decades
- Thervicarl 6y agoAnd the one for Soyuz from Arianespace https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Soyuz-Users-Manual-March-2012.pdf https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Soyuz...
- Rebelgecko 6y agoYes, and usually with much more detail (and in SpaceX's defense, the Falcon 9 user guide is also much more useful than this). This is super light on technical info in comparison (really the only specs are fairing size, very little about orbits)
- throw0101a 6y agoRegarding the PDF: Why does it seem so hard to get good looking justified text? It appears to me that only (La)TeX manages to get spacing 'correct' / aesthetically pleasing (IMHO). Going from the metadata, this file was generated by "Microsoft Office Word": you'd think MS would have the resources to figure this out.
- freeone3000 6y agoOkay. So what's good looking? This is inter-word spacing with emphasis to justification without hyphenation, last line excluded. This is the standard of justified text. We can't adjust hyphenation, because hyphenation rules are a quirk of not just language but pronunciation (the hyphen goes between syllables), so it's nearly impossible to find a universal ruleset. Let's mess with some of the other things. First: why have justified text? What if we just had a ragged right-hand column, not caring where that ended up? Let's just ignore that the user asked for justified text. Or take the completely opposite approach - what if we also distributed some of the spacing in between the letters? Which of these three looks best to you: https://imgur.com/a/THB6ifI https://imgur.com/a/THB6ifI
- aardvark179 6y agoTeX does do a good job, but it is not totally unique in this, and it’s not perfect because it doesn’t know enough about glyph shapes to avoid creating rivers. The thing that TeX, InDesign, and other systems that can do really good layout often allow is hints for ways to fix otherwise difficult cases (where it might be good to hyphenate or introduce a line break). Word is in a tricky middle ground where it is ostensibly concerned with the pure content of the document (where you shouldn’t be worrying about line justification issues) but is being used to produce final output where you would expect to be providing those fix ups.
- m_mueller 6y agoSince you seem to have an eye for this, what about Apple Pages? The output of that always seemed pleasing to me.
- alkonaut 6y agoNot sure it's theoretically possible. What you can do in an interactive WYSISYG editor like a word processor and what you can do with batch typesetting program are two different things. When you edit in a word processor, you have different expectations about the interaction speed, and the locality of changes. A typesetting program can spend two seconds optimizing word spacing when you "render" the document. Word can't. It could spend those 2 seconds when you hit print - but then it's no longer WYSIWYG! It could also apply "TeX-like" typesetting changes (jumbling the spacing around in the whole document on every keystroke) but that also breaks the user's expectation.
- gary_0 6y agoHow does this compare to what the Space Shuttle offered in terms of delivering large payloads to orbit?
- Octoth0rpe 6y agoWikipedia says that the shuttle's payload to LEO is 24,310 kg, at least 4x less than Starship (currently quoted at "100+ tons", meaning it could be somewhat higher, probably depending on where the booster lands (boostback to shore vs autonomous droneship vs no recovery).
- MPSimmons 6y agoThe additional on-orbit refuelling capability that will be developed will enable large mass delivery around the solar system, as well, though it's pretty purpose-built for sending people to other bodies.
- unclekev 6y ago> The cargo version can also be used for rapid point-to-point Earth transport Cant tell if they are being serious...
- ciarannolan 6y ago> SpaceX CEO Elon Musk unveiled revised plans to travel to the Moon and Mars at a space industry conference today, but he ended his talk with a pretty incredible promise: using that same interplanetary rocket system for long-distance travel on Earth. Musk showed a demonstration of the idea onstage, claiming that it will allow passengers to take “most long-distance trips” in just 30 minutes, and go “anywhere on Earth in under an hour” for around the same price as an economy airline ticket. https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/29/16383048/elon-musk-spacex-rocket-transport-earth-travel https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/29/16383048/elon-musk-spacex...
- tedivm 6y agoYup, they got a contract with the military to send weapons anyone on the globe. > This week, the space exploration company signed a contract with the Pentagon to jointly develop a rocket that can deliver up to 80 tons of cargo and weaponry anywhere in the world in just one hour, Business Insider first reported. https://observer.com/2020/10/elon-musk-spacex-military-rocket-contract-deliver-weapons/ https://observer.com/2020/10/elon-musk-spacex-military-rocke...
- Ballu 6y ago"The cargo version can also be used for rapid point-to-point Earth transport." Why no one is talking about this. This will be game changer if can be done with bigger payload. There are models created earlier that using rocket technology/mechanism, LA-HK can be reached in 2 hours. This can have huge impact on avionics esp with trade.
- HenryKissinger 6y agoIf it's not cheaper than overseas shipping or cargo aircraft, it won't work. It's basic economics.
- Octoth0rpe 6y agoThat doesn't take into account the speed of delivery. There may be some customer out there that doesn't know when they need something delivered, but once they know, they'd be willing to pay an extravagant amount of money to have whatever it is there in 30 minutes. The most immediate thing I can think of is a bomb, which is pretty much exactly that need :) But there may be other use cases with similar required delivery times.
- kolinko 6y agoAmazon Prime Now, but for shipping cars and anywhere on the planet? :)
- Octoth0rpe 6y agoThis is SpaceX, they have literally shipped cars _off_ of the planet as well :P
- betwixthewires 6y agoMan, people have been citing "basic economics" at musk for over a decade. You can't break into the US automotive industry with an independent startup, you can't cut launch costs by an order of magnitude, there's no market for a global constellation of LEO networking satellites, you can't double the number of sattelites in orbit in 5 years, the list goes on. I don't bet against Elon Musk anymore. If you've ever paid more for quicker shipping, there's a market for this.
- schappim 6y agoJust a heads up, you can extract a great widescreen desktop image from the cover page background[1]. [1] Yup, I know the guide says: "no portion hereof is to be copied, reproduced, or disseminated without the prior written consent of SpaceX".
- InTheOldWest 6y agoLovely! Thanks.
- gok 6y agoSqueezing 100 people into this thing for a multi-month journey continues to give me pause. It has smaller internal volume than the ISS, which has never had more than 9 people, and it was considered uncomfortably crowded when that happened.
- astrowilliam 6y agoTrips to Mars won't be 100 people. More than likely 30 or less. I'm imagining around 15-20 at most. https://youtu.be/Jed1tI_x-KM https://youtu.be/Jed1tI_x-KM
- neaanopri 6y agoI totally agree. I think the plans right now just aren't going to happen, a cycler probably makes the most sense
- bryanlarsen 6y ago100 people was for the ITS, an earlier concept with a 12 meter diameter. The 9 meter Starship would presumably hold fewer people.
- betwixthewires 6y agoThe PDF document we are discussing says 100 people in it.
- BHSPitMonkey 6y agoThe PDF document we are discussing was published in March; A lot has changed since then.
- betwixthewires 6y agoThe plan for the Starship has been less than 12 meters diameter for many years.
- maccam94 6y ago
- new_realist 6y agoMore juvenile posturing from Elon Musk. Such a whore for publicity.
- mlindner 6y agoHow is it posturing if Hacker News doesn't even notice something that's been publicly available on the site since March?
- betwixthewires 6y agoMan, Elon Musk is awesome. Just putting the fact that I just downloaded a user manual for a multi planetary spacecraft in PDF format into historical context, if you think about how thus all came together it really is amazing. We went from "this guy is nuts" to "oh yeah this is probably going to happen." When Tesla first came into public view, the idea that a car entirely electric powered that drives itself developed by a brand new car company was ridiculous to most people. This guy just said it matter of factly and everyone just kinda said OK dude. Then it happened. Then he said that there was going to be a rocket that lands itself, run privately. Then he says that they are going to build a human settlement on mars. Then worldwide high speed satellite internet. Now you can actually get it in some places. Now, they're going to high altitude test this giant rocket that will be able to carry 100 people tomorrow morning. 100 people. That's insane. Everything this guy says he's going to do is insane, the timelines are insane, but now everyone is kind of like "yeah, sounds about right" as if the world has always been like this. In 20 years this guy and all the engineers he hired have done absolutely incredible things that we take for granted. Tomorrow they're going to perform a high altitude test of a rocket designed to take 100 people to mars. I just read a user manual for an interplanetary spacecraft with the capacity of a small commercial airliner. I'm glad to be alive in this age.
- dflock 6y ago100 people was for the 12m diameter ITS version - Starship is 9m diameter and the internal volume is more like ISS sized. Still amazeballs though!
- betwixthewires 6y agoThe just released "user guide" says 100 people.
- BHSPitMonkey 6y agoWhere is the just-released version? (The one linked in the submission is the original one from March)
- 6y ago
- rpeden 6y agoIf you enjoy this, you might also like the Saturn V Flight Manual: https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap12fj/pdf/a12_sa507-flightmanual.pdf https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap12fj/pdf/a12_sa507-flightmanu...
- WizardAustralis 6y agoWith all the positive talk on here, I shall present a contrary point of view on this. This is the YouTube channel Common sense skeptic, that seems to be doing a good job if trying to test Musks/SpaceX claims, typically it is not positive at all. It is clear they have an axe to grind with Musk but they seem to doing a very good job of backing up their criticism s. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgKWj1pn3_7hRSFIypunYog https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgKWj1pn3_7hRSFIypunYog
- mlindner 6y agoThere's a difference between discussing legitimate issues versus going on a tirade rants full of misinformation to prove your point. That's what these channels do. For example one of their videos says that Starship isn't possible because of space radiation. Which is a much discredited idea and has been for years.
- WizardAustralis 6y agoThe issues of space radiation is far from discredited. It is one.of the major issues that still doesn't have an elegant solution. One.idea that SpaceX is proposing is to try and get the trip to Mars to 6 months. It will still be a serious issue but it would at least be better than the typical trip proposal. One of the reasons I posted that channel was because they seem to have really done their research far beyond the typical "it wont work, just because". It is biased still but at least they arent just firing blind.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- skykooler 6y agoIt does have a pretty elegant solution: water. Water is an excellent shield against radiation, and any long duration mission will have a large amount of water on board for the humans. With proper positioning of the tanks, said water can do double duty as a radiation shield.
- jjoe 6y agoI got really excited that the PDF download seemed substantial as it took relatively longer to complete. Only to be mildly disappointed that it's only 5 pages long... Amazing how this is all quickly coming to fruition that there isn't enough time to fully assimilate.
- mlindner 6y agoFor those who weren't aware, this has been uploaded on the SpaceX site since March 2020, so there is nothing new here.
- ArnoVW 6y agoTo quote Crocodile Dundee: "that's not a user guide". SpaceX do amazing things, and shows that private space is good. But you have to admit that government space programs have better public documentation. The ISS operating guide, in all it's glory: http://spaceref.com/iss/operations.html http://spaceref.com/iss/operations.html
- fooker 6y ago>The ISS operating guide, in all it's glory: You are comparing an 'user guide' for a 20 year old mature project to one which will launch in ~N years in the future. That is like comparing Linux man pages with an early stage startup pitch deck.
- Ajedi32 6y agoYeah, see the SpaceX Falcon 9 user guide for comparison: https://www.spacex.com/media/Falcon_Users_Guide_082020.pdf https://www.spacex.com/media/Falcon_Users_Guide_082020.pdf I expect once Starship gets beyond the prototype stage its users guide will become much more detailed.
- dogukanadiguzel 6y agoActually it is a really good marketing
- jiggawatts 6y agoFor comparison, here is the Saturn V flight manual: https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap12fj/pdf/a12_sa507-flightmanual.pdf https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap12fj/pdf/a12_sa507-flightmanu...
- drummer 6y agoElon's true brilliance shines through in the fact that he rightfully questions the official covid propaganda.
- ncmncm 6y agoBTW, a thousand cubic meters is the size of the passenger deck on an Airbus A380. He remarked "we can make it bigger."