5 ms·

This is just capitalism working as expected and - wow news flash - it is a broken system.

by mxskelly 6y ago

zbyte64 6y ago
How dare they act in a self-interested manner with no other regards.
- chunkstuntman 6y ago
  Actually yeah, parasitic selfishness should definitely be discouraged in a healthy society
  - nickpp 6y ago
    By force, eventually. Those daring to have their own interest in mind instead of the greater good should receive a healthy struggle session and their wealth confiscated. For all mankind!
    - mxskelly 6y ago
      Yes, actually.
      - nickpp 6y ago
        Good to know how the ones so worried with our welfare REALLY think.
    - oscargrouch 6y ago
      Or its just a matter of not letting bad players to ruin all the game. Too many greedy blood suckers will drain and kill the cow eventually. The word here is balance to have a sustained long running system that can benefit the maximum number of people. It doesn't need to be a false dichotomy between what it is now and stalinist Russia comunism. Note: the blood suckers is not the whole of the capital market of course, they produce value. The problem is some players and some practices..
  - stale2002 6y ago
    In the context of this article and conversation, you are saying that companies that give away their product, for too low of a price, and too cheaply, in which consumers benefit too much is.... parasitic? Giving things way to people for less than they are worth may not be good idea, but I don't think I would call that parasitic. Instead, that is closer to charity.
    - mxskelly 6y ago
      You make it sound like the companies who run this shit are penniless, they're not, they're making millions of dollars of actual cash. There's no charity going on here.
      - stale2002 6y ago
        But specifically the issue being discussed is these companies selling their product for too cheap and low prices. I would not use the word "parasitic" to describe a situation where good and services are very cheap and good.
- CalChris 6y ago
  The article doesn't say that VCs shouldn't be self interested. Nowhere does it say that greed, for lack of a better word, is bad. The herd mentality of the VCs investing in WeWork wasn't about greed, or self interest. It was about Kool-Aid, a term the article does use. The point of the article is that it is this Kool-Aid thinking which deforms actual capitalism.
- Rmblnm4n 6y ago
  Yep, I do the same by using my buyout money to undermine the west. Y’all wanna be ok deflating my wealth? I’ll do what I can to tank yours altogether.
- oblio 6y ago
  I think we can all agree that the ends don't always justify the means. "Machiavellian" isn't a word of praise.
disgruntledphd2 6y ago
Running unprofitable companies at a loss with no clear plan for making money (apart from the Pinky and the Brain plan of taking over the world) is not how capitalism is supposed to work, and only persistently low interest rates and a global savings glut have ever facilitated it. This used to be called dumping, and was a crime. The new part is that the companies don't even make any money at their core business. Take Hailo, an uber-like startup that operated a franchise model. They made money, were expanding slowly and profitably, and followed the laws. They were driven out of business by Uber who still (ten years later) have not made any money, and have been subsidised by deluded pension funds looking to juice their returns. Whatever that is, it's not capitalism, which at base is a system designed for people to invest money in the hope of getting more money back in the future. Hailo was capitalistic, Uber is some kind of weird mishmash of communism and hipsterism. It's like the performance art of capitalism; all of the trappings and none of the substance. (For Uber, substitute your least favourite unprofitable unicorn).
- claudeganon 6y ago
  However it works is how it works. Capitalism absolutely devolves into the corrupt oligopolies we have today, where businesses capture government and entrench their position and power over everyone else. Strong organized labor and various forms of social democracy can resist these trends, but what's happening in America is just Capitalism running its course.
  - mxskelly 6y ago
    Exactly this. You can't take "well this is happening but it's not real capitalism" even though everyone's calling it capitalism. It's capitalism. Capitalism is busted and rewards greed and concentration of wealth. It doesn't take a galaxy brain super genius to figure out that an economic system that relies on infinite growth doesn't exactly pan out in the long run, and what we're seeing in America today is just the late effects of the capitalist system that we allowed to run rampant because apparently any amount of socialism is communism and scary because reasons I guess.
    - 6y ago
cbozeman 6y ago
The system works just fine... when you don't have a bunch of weak fuckers running it, and when you don't have a bunch of weak fuckers in your nation. People cry, but everyone wanted a bailout, even average Americans, because no one wants to go through The Great Depression again, because everyone's scared, and everyone's scared for different reasons. Rich people are scared they'll be killed for their hand in another Big Sad. Poor people are scared they'll starve to death during another Big Sad. Politicians are scared they'll lose their (laughably pathetic...) power - and/or be killed for allowing another Big Sad to happen. Its all based on fear, and its ultimately cowardice. The most American thing to do in 2008 would have been to allow every company that was going to fail, to fail. This is how you purge the weak and allow the strongest to survive. Whoever's got the gumption, the grit, the fortitude, the courage, etc., will survive and whoever doesn't... too bad. The problem is, few people really have the stomach for this, because our modern world has become so comfortable. The beautiful thing is, the coming reckoning can't be put off indefinitely. Eventually, the bill will come due and people will be made to pay up, whether they want to, or not.
kgin 6y ago
Can you explain why this is expected?

This is just capitalism working as expected and - wow news flash - it is a broken system.

zbyte64 6y ago

How dare they act in a self-interested manner with no other regards.

chunkstuntman 6y ago
Actually yeah, parasitic selfishness should definitely be discouraged in a healthy society
- nickpp 6y ago
  By force, eventually. Those daring to have their own interest in mind instead of the greater good should receive a healthy struggle session and their wealth confiscated. For all mankind!
  - mxskelly 6y ago
    Yes, actually.
    - nickpp 6y ago
      Good to know how the ones so worried with our welfare REALLY think.
  - oscargrouch 6y ago
    Or its just a matter of not letting bad players to ruin all the game. Too many greedy blood suckers will drain and kill the cow eventually. The word here is balance to have a sustained long running system that can benefit the maximum number of people. It doesn't need to be a false dichotomy between what it is now and stalinist Russia comunism. Note: the blood suckers is not the whole of the capital market of course, they produce value. The problem is some players and some practices..
- stale2002 6y ago
  In the context of this article and conversation, you are saying that companies that give away their product, for too low of a price, and too cheaply, in which consumers benefit too much is.... parasitic? Giving things way to people for less than they are worth may not be good idea, but I don't think I would call that parasitic. Instead, that is closer to charity.
  - mxskelly 6y ago
    You make it sound like the companies who run this shit are penniless, they're not, they're making millions of dollars of actual cash. There's no charity going on here.
    - stale2002 6y ago
      But specifically the issue being discussed is these companies selling their product for too cheap and low prices. I would not use the word "parasitic" to describe a situation where good and services are very cheap and good.
CalChris 6y ago
The article doesn't say that VCs shouldn't be self interested. Nowhere does it say that greed, for lack of a better word, is bad. The herd mentality of the VCs investing in WeWork wasn't about greed, or self interest. It was about Kool-Aid, a term the article does use. The point of the article is that it is this Kool-Aid thinking which deforms actual capitalism.
Rmblnm4n 6y ago
Yep, I do the same by using my buyout money to undermine the west. Y’all wanna be ok deflating my wealth? I’ll do what I can to tank yours altogether.
oblio 6y ago
I think we can all agree that the ends don't always justify the means. "Machiavellian" isn't a word of praise.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago

Running unprofitable companies at a loss with no clear plan for making money (apart from the Pinky and the Brain plan of taking over the world) is not how capitalism is supposed to work, and only persistently low interest rates and a global savings glut have ever facilitated it. This used to be called dumping, and was a crime. The new part is that the companies don't even make any money at their core business. Take Hailo, an uber-like startup that operated a franchise model. They made money, were expanding slowly and profitably, and followed the laws. They were driven out of business by Uber who still (ten years later) have not made any money, and have been subsidised by deluded pension funds looking to juice their returns. Whatever that is, it's not capitalism, which at base is a system designed for people to invest money in the hope of getting more money back in the future. Hailo was capitalistic, Uber is some kind of weird mishmash of communism and hipsterism. It's like the performance art of capitalism; all of the trappings and none of the substance. (For Uber, substitute your least favourite unprofitable unicorn).

claudeganon 6y ago
However it works is how it works. Capitalism absolutely devolves into the corrupt oligopolies we have today, where businesses capture government and entrench their position and power over everyone else. Strong organized labor and various forms of social democracy can resist these trends, but what's happening in America is just Capitalism running its course.
- mxskelly 6y ago
  Exactly this. You can't take "well this is happening but it's not real capitalism" even though everyone's calling it capitalism. It's capitalism. Capitalism is busted and rewards greed and concentration of wealth. It doesn't take a galaxy brain super genius to figure out that an economic system that relies on infinite growth doesn't exactly pan out in the long run, and what we're seeing in America today is just the late effects of the capitalist system that we allowed to run rampant because apparently any amount of socialism is communism and scary because reasons I guess.
  - 6y ago

cbozeman 6y ago

The system works just fine... when you don't have a bunch of weak fuckers running it, and when you don't have a bunch of weak fuckers in your nation. People cry, but everyone wanted a bailout, even average Americans, because no one wants to go through The Great Depression again, because everyone's scared, and everyone's scared for different reasons. Rich people are scared they'll be killed for their hand in another Big Sad. Poor people are scared they'll starve to death during another Big Sad. Politicians are scared they'll lose their (laughably pathetic...) power - and/or be killed for allowing another Big Sad to happen. Its all based on fear, and its ultimately cowardice. The most American thing to do in 2008 would have been to allow every company that was going to fail, to fail. This is how you purge the weak and allow the strongest to survive. Whoever's got the gumption, the grit, the fortitude, the courage, etc., will survive and whoever doesn't... too bad. The problem is, few people really have the stomach for this, because our modern world has become so comfortable. The beautiful thing is, the coming reckoning can't be put off indefinitely. Eventually, the bill will come due and people will be made to pay up, whether they want to, or not.

kgin 6y ago

Can you explain why this is expected?