11 ms·

Is Apple Silicon Ready?

304 points by caiobegotti 6y ago

leoplct 6y ago
I am using Postgresql (last version) and I am having a lot of table corruptions. I neved had this problem, only now that I switched to new Mac book pro. PG::InternalError: ERROR: could not read block 38 in file "base/84897/85294": Bad address
jrlocke 6y ago
Yes.
rblatz 6y ago
I got an SSL error on this page. This is the second time that’s happened today. And I can’t remember this happening on my phone in the past. Is this something on my end or are others seeing it too?
- loeg 6y ago
  SSL on the site is fine for me. It is a Let's Encrypt cert, if that matters.
  - rblatz 6y ago
    I was seeing a mcafee cert... wonder if Centurylink is playing games.
- jamesbfb 6y ago
  OpenSSL is partially working on M1 it seems... :)
GeneralTspoon 6y ago
Very cool idea! Useful for evaluating whether or not to order a new MBP now or later. One minor bug - Sketch shows under all apps, but not under design apps (I thought it was missing altogether because I didn't see it under Design).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ibraheemdev 6y ago
Related: https://doesitarm.com/ https://doesitarm.com/
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Sublime Text seems to be incorrectly marked as having native builds: https://doesitarm.com/app/sublime-text/ https://doesitarm.com/app/sublime-text/
  - ibraheemdev 6y ago
    Based on the linked forum discussion, they do have native builds: > We currently have a private beta for experimental arm64 linux support (no 32bit). If you have a valid Sublime Text 3 license and are willing and able to test on your arm64 device....
    - ibraheemdev 6y ago
      Also, if the site did have a mistake, you could just open a pull request, which is why I prefer this site over isapplesiliconready
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        I did: https://github.com/ThatGuySam/doesitarm/issues/279 https://github.com/ThatGuySam/doesitarm/issues/279
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      For Linux.
loeg 6y ago
Seems a bit dubious to claim M1 isn't ready for web browsers when all of Chrome, Firefox, and Safari have ARM-optimized green checkmarks. Vivaldi, Brave, and Microsoft Edge — who cares? Similarly, the "Finance" tab is 100% green checkmark and also says "Not yet!"
- gilrain 6y ago
  Edge has a higher usage share of the desktop market than Firefox.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - loeg 6y ago
    Do you have a source? The first example I found is a bit dated (2016), but contradicts that claim: https://zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/77931904-cbea-4980-be7d-cbee99144130/resize/770xauto/a4fca9ac833659dfb91ec665c50600c7/browser-share-june-2016-osx.jpg https://zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/77931904-cb... This source (2020) also claims that global Firefox use is about 4% while Edge is under 3%, contradicting the claim (even including non-MacOS devices): https://gs.statcounter.com/ https://gs.statcounter.com/ Another 2020 source gives 5.5% to Firefox and 0.5% to Edge on MacOS, also contradicting the claim: https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22platform%22%3A%7B%22%24in%22%3A%5B%22Mac%20OS%22%5D%7D%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222019-11%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222020-10%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22...
    - gilrain 6y ago
      Naturally it increased after it switched to Chromium and became the Windows default. Choose your own source: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=edge+surpasses+firefox https://duckduckgo.com/?q=edge+surpasses+firefox
kowlo 6y ago
Great idea, thanks for putting it together. Ordering by "Apple silicon optimised" doesn't seem to work as I expected it. Is it a bug? Great to see Office 2019 (not 365) works - was putting off picking up a license for that reason.
- vetinari 6y ago
  Afaik only 365 and 2021 will be ARM native and 2019 won't be. Also be aware that unlike the Windows Office, Mac Office is supported only for 5 years and for the 2019 release, 2 years are already gone (it will be supported till Oct 2023, Mac Office 2016 is already unsupported since last October).
Traster 6y ago
I like the tick next to Firefox and you mouse-over and it says "Beta".
gmaster1440 6y ago
Table suggests that Docker can run under Rosetta 2, but the Docker blog post that it links to suggests Rosetta is not enough. Can someone confirm if it’s actually possible to run Docker using Rosetta on M1 Macs?
- speedgoose 6y ago
  I guess the Docker client works, but you still need a GNU/Linux running Docker. It's usually a VM on the same host but it doesn't have to be.
- rsanheim 6y ago
  It isn't, at least not in any way most developers use it. You cannot use docker to start a *nix container on a mac, whether its for a arm or x86 OS. some context: https://www.reddit.com/r/docker/comments/jxc1ge/docker_and_apple_m1/gcx686v/ https://www.reddit.com/r/docker/comments/jxc1ge/docker_and_a...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- filmgirlcw 6y ago
  It’s not. The client might be but the actual VM is a total mess right now.
- benatkin 6y ago
  The Docker client works. It is useful, but it's not the same as Docker working.
- kccqzy 6y ago
  It might be that you can use docker-machine to set up a remote Docker machine and then use a native docker CLI to control that remote instance.
- musicale 6y ago
  "Docker" on macOS is a Linux VM running docker. Presumably ARM docker images could run in an ARM Linux VM.
hit8run 6y ago
Can you tell me if Ruby is ready?
- sohooo 6y ago
  In the meantime, you could use the version shipped with macOS: ▶ ruby -v ruby 2.6.3p62 (2019-04-16 revision 67580) [universal.arm64e-darwin20]
- WA9ACE 6y ago
  I installed arm ruby via arm homebrew using `brew install ruby` and it's working. Anything requiring the ffi gem will not compile at the moment though.
piazz 6y ago
Anybody using it with VSCode? Appreciable perf difference?
- emadabdulrahim 6y ago
  It works fine on my M1 MBP. Runs intel though not ARM. Which I think is a mistake in the website showing it doesn't work on Rosetta 2
  - LolWolf 6y ago
    Agreed on mistake. (Rosetta 2 version runs fine, afaict.) I haven't stress tested the ARM version, but it is the one I'm currently using and I haven't had any issues so far.
    - bpye 6y ago
      The ARM version crashes for me every time I change something in the settings UI, otherwise it seems to work okay.
mandragon 6y ago
Unrelated to the link but related to Apple's CPU foray: Any thoughts or info on the security implications of a first generation CPU design? Is it safe to assume that a design focused on cutting edge performance may have compromised on security in some form? Does the fact that this is first gen indicate opportunity for hackers to discover low hanging fruit vulnerabilities possibly to the benefit of nation state or private actors? I feel like the long term path for silicon will converge on extreme compartmentalization of general purpose computing hardware inside chips, designed from the ground up to achieve physical process isolation purpose built per task, with highly secure hardware IPC all on a single high perf die. Interested to learn what Apple has done to build a "more secure" CPU design. edit: A quick web search yields relevant results on this topic already, e.g. work by Chinese based Tencent Security.
- stouset 6y ago
  This isn't a first-generation CPU design. It's just another iteration of the ARM chips that Apple has been building since acquiring PA Semi 12 years ago.
  - mandragon 6y ago
    Corrected: First generation chip purpose-built for Mac.
    - happycube 6y ago
      ... the first one that shipped. I suspect they've been building things like the A12X mini DTK for a few years now.
      - mandragon 6y ago
        Apple's site says it is their first "chip" designed specifically for Mac: https://www.apple.com/mac/m1/ https://www.apple.com/mac/m1/ I may be making a few semantical errors, regarding "first gen", et al
chadlavi 6y ago
isn't this more like "is this app ready for apple silicon"?
- loeg 6y ago
  It is exactly that.
- jane128 6y ago
  it's more like "is Apple silicon ready to be used by x?"
- mortenjorck 6y ago
  The title is an odd construction, and did throw me off at first. "Is Apple Silicon ready?" Ready for what? Apple Silicon is the fixed quantity in this equation, while the software is what is changing to be ready for Apple Silicon, so the construction feels backward. An alternate construction could be "Is it Apple Silicon-ready," which I suppose one could stretch the title to read as a shortening of, but it's still awkward either way. All that said – this is the best UI I've seen yet for an Apple Silicon compatibility list, confusing title or not.
wgx 6y ago
I wonder why Google didn’t get File Stream ready?
johnklos 6y ago
Silly title. Apple Silicon is obviously ready. Are these software packages ready is the question.
DCKing 6y ago
It really seems that nearly everything that's not a full native ObjC/Swift stack or is not a web browser (or based on one, like Electron) is not ready yet right now. It really seems Apple did not care enough to get especially golang and Rust stuff stable for their hardware release. I can't escape the impression that they didn't really shower the wider ecosystem in DTKs and software support, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong there. Oh well, at least Rosetta2 seems to be working really well - you will be able to run a lot of software you need rather well despite not to the fullest potential. The execution on Rosetta2 is really good and that's important. But I think it does go to show that the "Pro" in "Macbook Pro 13" does not mean all that much. At least not if they're going to ship with the majority of pro software not being native, many popular developer toolchains still months to be ready, and very limited I/O and RAM options. The Macbook Air and Mac Mini I fully get for the first releases on new hardware, but the Macbook Pro 13 really feels odd in this lineup if the word Pro is supposed to mean anything.
- egsmi 6y ago
  > I can't escape the impression that they didn't really shower the wider ecosystem in DTKs and support, although I'd be happy to proven wrong there. That’s interesting. I was shocked at how many green check marks there are for a chip that was announced in June. It takes time to write and test an application. A lot of teams must’ve really prioritized it. Also, Apple Silicon compatibility is not enough. One needs Big Sur compatibility too.
  - DCKing 6y ago
    I don't think the chip's announcement time really should go into anyone's consideration time here, since it's Apple's own choice to go for these timelines and release a "Pro" product in November :) I mean this point is largely moot by Rosetta covering all the basics well and still making the Macbook Pro 13 a serviceable Pro computer for a lot of (but not all) use cases. It just seems strange to me that popular developer things like Go, Rust, Docker, virtualization of any kind are still months away despite these being super important use cases of the Mac. Maybe Apple just doesn't feel that way, or have the numbers showing that my impression isn't true, but it feels strange that they're letting the community just figure it out by themselves now.
brundolf 6y ago
Very cool. Small suggestion: it would be nice to be able to filter by "all apps that have native support or work properly under Rosetta", and maybe also the inverse of that.
savanpatel 6y ago
Why is Apple a Developer for TensorFlow? Is that a mistake in list?
Grustaf 6y ago
Is this sponsored by spotify or why are they up at the top? How many people use spotify on a computer? In any case, the domain nam is incorrect. It should be “isitapplesiliconready”. The chips are clearly ready, it’s just that some developers haven’t recompiled their apps for it yet.
- Ninn 6y ago
  > In MEA and North America we see the highest preponderance of desktop Spotify listening, on 46%, with MEA also reporting the lowest mobile listening figure of 56% (compared to North America’s 61%). https://www.businessofapps.com/data/spotify-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/spotify-statistics/
- Raphmedia 6y ago
  It's sorted by "last update".
- dblooman 6y ago
  Lots of people use Spotify desktop app....
rudolph9 6y ago
Probably not but for better or worse, Apple is a big enough juggernaut that existing software that’s not ready it now has significant motivation to become ready.
- canofbars 6y ago
  Users will most likely blame the software for not working and not the hardware since all their other software will be working pretty soon.
mpol 6y ago
I would think the apps will come and get optimised. That is just a matter of chicken and egg, sometimes you just have to release, and go from there. What I am worried about is if the GPU is anything worthwhile. All the focus in the reviews is on the CPU, but the GPU seems where it mostly falls short. Not enough external screens for example, though that can be fixed in a newer generation. But is it faster than what Apple hardware included in Intel, with AMD graphics? Some people will feel the regression in speed and capabilities quite hard. I don't see much focus on that in media publications.
- lumost 6y ago
  It’s a fair bet that it’s substantially inferior to a dedicated gpu at present. They didn’t release an M1 in any premium sku that would be head to head with a dgpu. However, given the investment in both the neural engine and integrated gpu - I wouldn’t be surprised to see something interesting in 6-24 months.
  - xrisk 6y ago
    I do believe benchmarks have shown it to be equivalent to a 1050 Ti which is not a pushover card by any means.
- lucian1900 6y ago
  It’s at least as impressive, if not more https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-tested/3 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-teste...
bklyn11201 6y ago
In my small universe, this was the week of ARM. I submitted multiple PRs to OS projects to get ARM compilations working. I started moving AWS instances off of Intel instances to the new Graviton2 instances. I'm still surprised there isn't more server takeup of ARM considering the incredible power numbers. Cloudflare announced their current builds and it's all Epyc2 and no ARM. What about Azure and Google Cloud? Are ARM servers easy to launch and superior on a cost/performance perspective?
- Xevi 6y ago
  Scaleway tried ARM and failed: https://www.theregister.com/2020/04/21/scaleway_arm64_cloud_end_of_life/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/04/21/scaleway_arm64_cloud_... But as you can see at the end of the article, other providers are considering/using ARM more.
  - marmaduke 6y ago
    I tried ARM on Scaleway and the main benefit was network capacity. Performance was not so good.
    - bklyn11201 6y ago
      Seems like they were just too early and didn't have the capability of an AWS-scale company to work directly with ARM? It seems like the first-gen of Graviton wasn't great, but then they seem to have made huge leaps with Graviton2. https://pages.awscloud.com/rs/112-TZM-766/images/2020_0501-CMP_Slide-Deck.pdf https://pages.awscloud.com/rs/112-TZM-766/images/2020_0501-C...
  - neurostimulant 6y ago
    Hmm, I was trying to rent some arm servers on scaleway but they were always out of stock. The article mentioned difficulties operating those servers reliably and they can't just buy hardware from different vendor because there is no other vendor that sells arm server at that moment (pretty much only thunderx server was available for purchase). Maybe things will be different this time and a bunch of new arm server vendors would show up due to renewed interest in arm servers.
xeeeeeeeeeeenu 6y ago
Beta software (like Firefox) shouldn't have got green checkmarks. It's not "ready" yet.
- jane128 6y ago
  Thanks for the feedback, we've fixed it.
yyyk 6y ago
It's unfortunate that the middle status (warning triangle with a exclamation mark) has a green background rather than a yellow background like warning triangles everywhere else. Makes the table less clear.
- jane128 6y ago
  we've fixed the warning color, thanks for your feedback.
uxisnotui 6y ago
Please add/track Figma :)
acwan93 6y ago
"Windows" should be on there too: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/20/craig-federighi-on-windows-for-m1-macs/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/20/craig-federighi-on-wind...
uvesten 6y ago
Weird that node is listed as not running under Apple Silicon, since I've been running node 15 compiled for Apple Silicon without problems for a while now :)
- dawnerd 6y ago
  Did you compile it or is there a prebuilt avail?
glup 6y ago
I totally thought this was going to be one of those static sites with a single answer in h1 fonts ("Is it snowing in San Francisco?" "No") but instead this is much more useful.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nottorp 6y ago
Can it virtualize x86 operating systems? That's when it will be ready. If you only use the latest version of <whatever javascript lib you're using> it's fine now, i guess. If you maintain legacy apps, you now need an x86 box. And then you have to ask yourself, why buy a Mac too? They need to fix that somehow. They have enough money to sponsor something based on QEMU, for example. They're just cheap.
bigdict 6y ago
Why is World of Warcraft listed under "Developers"? Actually…
- leipert 6y ago
  You can script Lua, no? Or is that some other game.
everyone 6y ago
Honest question. Why are people here so excited about this? What I've gathered via osmosis here about Apple silicon is. 1. It will only be in macs, you cant buy the chips or mobos to build your own machine. 2. Theyre very energy efficient. 3. Their performance is okish. Doesnt really seems earth shattering.. Like, if they were a super low energy alternative to the duopoly of amd or intel, that would be pretty cool. But if u buy a mac nowadays, its like a console with set stuff in it that u cant change or upgrade.. Now that stuff will be improved / updated in newer macs, does that not happen regularly anyway? EDIT: Several people saying the performance is amazing.. Can u link me to some benchmarks? The only numbers I can find are these. "In Geekbench 5, the A14X yields a single-core score of 1,634 and rakes in 7,220 in the multi-core test." These are very low scores, like, my desktop gets many times that.. My old work low/mid level laptop from 4 years ago had 3000 single core and 11600 multi-core score.
- macintux 6y ago
  > Their performance is okish That seems an understatement. The first version, targeted at (for Apple) low-end devices, is much faster than most x86-64 based computers.
  - happycube 6y ago
    And it's an absolute IPC monster. At 3.2ghz it keeps up with high 4.x-ghz x86 cores. It's been a long time since anything's jumped like that from a good starting point.
- djrogers 6y ago
  > But if u buy a mac nowadays, its like a console with set stuff in it that u cant change or upgrade That's how most people buy and treat computers. We're the weird ones who upgrade them and keep using them for 9 years, 3 SSDs, and 4 RAM bumps. > Their performance is okish Nope - not even close to merely 'okish'. These first devices (which were clearly targeted as the cheapest, lowest-end devices Apple sells) outperform the vast majority of PCs (and Macs) sold today, and not just by a tiny bit. Look at some of the reviews by developers - in many cases their existing Intel apps and games are running better under Rosetta emulation/bridge/whatever you want to call it then they did on native Intel Macs. Compile times for a $999 MacBook Air beat a $6k+ iMac Pro by 30-40%. Games getting better frame rates under Rosetta than they did on native intel boxes. The list goes on - these chips are beasts, and this is only the beginning. The high-performance versions of these will make people who bought 8/10/12 core iMac Pros recently weep.
tosh 6y ago
this is a sheet for tracking game compatibility and performance (including FPS, settings, system specs and sources) that I set up yesterday https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1er-NivvuIheDmIKBVRu3S_BzA_lZT5z3Z-CxQZ-uPVs/ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1er-NivvuIheDmIKBVRu3... first results are impressive, there are reports of games that were unplayable on the 2020 Intel MacBook Air that now run well on the M1 MacBook Air
suyash 6y ago
Missing 'Java' under programming languages / runtime. Last I heard it's being worked upon.
zachberger 6y ago
Sorting on the columns with checkboxes seems broken.
EugeneOZ 6y ago
Maybe not 100% yet, but it moves incredibly fast to this goal.
tlrobinson 6y ago
I’ll gladly let you fine folks sort out this mess, and I’ll check back in next year. Thanks! Seriously though, what’s the plan for Docker? Will all containers need to be built for ARM or will Rosetta 2 be able to run Docker in an x86 VM? Homebrew is my other benchmark.
- mr_toad 6y ago
  > what’s the plan for Docker? Rosetta doesn’t support virtualisation (which would be needed to run the Linux VM under which the containers run). So you’d need an ARM version of Docker, and an ARM Linux VM, and since the containers rely on that Linux kernel, I assume ARM containers running ARM software. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou... I suppose it might be possible to develop a para-virtualisation framework that runs under Rosetta.
xyst 6y ago
It's amazing how fast applications are being transitioned to apple silicon. If this was any other company introducing a new architecture, I am sure adoption wouldn't have been this fast.
- macintux 6y ago
  Apple has the advantage of a long track record of pulling the plug on old tech. No one thinks for a moment that they’re going to try to straddle the middle of the road by offering both platforms any longer than they have to. Being a decisive, opinionated company means that you anger a lot of people, but it also means you’re predictable once you’ve announced something like this.
deleted 6y ago
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coryfklein 6y ago
I've been through enough Mac upgrades by now to learn that I'm going to have a better time waiting for M2. I'm not really interested in jumping on this particular early adopter train. As a developer, who knows what random tweaks and system behaviors I rely on to get my job done, but that will be completely broken on a new Mac. I certainly am heartened by all the news about processing power improvements. I'll just join the rest of y'all young whippersnappers after you pay the early adopter tax for me.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > I've been through enough Mac upgrades by now to learn that I'm going to have a better time waiting for M2. If this was a brand new chip, yes, but Apple's chips have had years worth of proofing in iPads etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors
alkonaut 6y ago
I can only imagine the horror it must be to be maintaining mac x86 software that turns out to not work with Rosetta (Like some of the examples listed). I do windows desktop work and try to picture what would happen if our customers were suddenly moving to Win10 on Arm and expecting our software to work. We have dozens and dozens of third party binary dependencies, each of which could turn out to be the one that doesn’t translate. Not all of them could realistically be replaced or updated. The situation would basically be one where Microsoft had announced the death of our software and probably business.
- macintux 6y ago
  Long-time Mac developers are familiar with these transitions, and everyone had the opportunity to pick up development hardware this summer, so while it’s certainly not something to treat lightly, everyone with customers should have known what they were up against by now.
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    Yeah but if I have a 10mb binary dependency on an x86 lib with no source code and the company that made it is long since gone, then deprecating x86 would make me sweat a bit.
trixie_ 6y ago
Constant software compatibility issues is what caused people to avoid WindowsRT.. depending on how soon Apple resolves these issues will determine if people stick with M1 or migrate to Windows 10. My company runs on Windows with lots of 3rd party domain specific windows apps. We use Mac laptops because the hardware is nice, but it's probably not going to be an option for us in the future.
musicale 6y ago
They should probably differentiate between Rosetta 2 issues and Big Sur issues.
amelius 6y ago
A better question is: am I ready for locked-down silicon?
retox 6y ago
"High risk website blocked"
penguin_booze 6y ago
Aplogies for the meta: does anyone know/how do I find out what component library is used on the site? It looks to me some kind of material design flavor. Context: I'm after a flexible material-like table component for a personal project.
anupamchugh 6y ago
For Android Developers, running Android Studio on M1 Macs is turning out to be a nightmare. The UI is sluggish and gradle builds are drastically slow. Seems like JetBrains still needs to get their softwares ready for Apple Silicon: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-2526 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-2526

304 points by caiobegotti 6y ago

I am using Postgresql (last version) and I am having a lot of table corruptions. I neved had this problem, only now that I switched to new Mac book pro. PG::InternalError: ERROR: could not read block 38 in file "base/84897/85294": Bad address

jrlocke 6y ago

Yes.

rblatz 6y ago

I got an SSL error on this page. This is the second time that’s happened today. And I can’t remember this happening on my phone in the past. Is this something on my end or are others seeing it too?

loeg 6y ago
SSL on the site is fine for me. It is a Let's Encrypt cert, if that matters.
- rblatz 6y ago
  I was seeing a mcafee cert... wonder if Centurylink is playing games.
jamesbfb 6y ago
OpenSSL is partially working on M1 it seems... :)

GeneralTspoon 6y ago

Very cool idea! Useful for evaluating whether or not to order a new MBP now or later. One minor bug - Sketch shows under all apps, but not under design apps (I thought it was missing altogether because I didn't see it under Design).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ibraheemdev 6y ago

Related: https://doesitarm.com/ https://doesitarm.com/

saagarjha 6y ago
Sublime Text seems to be incorrectly marked as having native builds: https://doesitarm.com/app/sublime-text/ https://doesitarm.com/app/sublime-text/
- ibraheemdev 6y ago
  Based on the linked forum discussion, they do have native builds: > We currently have a private beta for experimental arm64 linux support (no 32bit). If you have a valid Sublime Text 3 license and are willing and able to test on your arm64 device....
  - ibraheemdev 6y ago
    Also, if the site did have a mistake, you could just open a pull request, which is why I prefer this site over isapplesiliconready
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I did: https://github.com/ThatGuySam/doesitarm/issues/279 https://github.com/ThatGuySam/doesitarm/issues/279
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    For Linux.

loeg 6y ago

Seems a bit dubious to claim M1 isn't ready for web browsers when all of Chrome, Firefox, and Safari have ARM-optimized green checkmarks. Vivaldi, Brave, and Microsoft Edge — who cares? Similarly, the "Finance" tab is 100% green checkmark and also says "Not yet!"

gilrain 6y ago
Edge has a higher usage share of the desktop market than Firefox.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- loeg 6y ago
  Do you have a source? The first example I found is a bit dated (2016), but contradicts that claim: https://zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/77931904-cbea-4980-be7d-cbee99144130/resize/770xauto/a4fca9ac833659dfb91ec665c50600c7/browser-share-june-2016-osx.jpg https://zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/77931904-cb... This source (2020) also claims that global Firefox use is about 4% while Edge is under 3%, contradicting the claim (even including non-MacOS devices): https://gs.statcounter.com/ https://gs.statcounter.com/ Another 2020 source gives 5.5% to Firefox and 0.5% to Edge on MacOS, also contradicting the claim: https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22platform%22%3A%7B%22%24in%22%3A%5B%22Mac%20OS%22%5D%7D%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222019-11%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222020-10%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D https://netmarketshare.com/?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22...
  - gilrain 6y ago
    Naturally it increased after it switched to Chromium and became the Windows default. Choose your own source: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=edge+surpasses+firefox https://duckduckgo.com/?q=edge+surpasses+firefox

kowlo 6y ago

Great idea, thanks for putting it together. Ordering by "Apple silicon optimised" doesn't seem to work as I expected it. Is it a bug? Great to see Office 2019 (not 365) works - was putting off picking up a license for that reason.

vetinari 6y ago
Afaik only 365 and 2021 will be ARM native and 2019 won't be. Also be aware that unlike the Windows Office, Mac Office is supported only for 5 years and for the 2019 release, 2 years are already gone (it will be supported till Oct 2023, Mac Office 2016 is already unsupported since last October).

Traster 6y ago

I like the tick next to Firefox and you mouse-over and it says "Beta".

gmaster1440 6y ago

Table suggests that Docker can run under Rosetta 2, but the Docker blog post that it links to suggests Rosetta is not enough. Can someone confirm if it’s actually possible to run Docker using Rosetta on M1 Macs?

speedgoose 6y ago
I guess the Docker client works, but you still need a GNU/Linux running Docker. It's usually a VM on the same host but it doesn't have to be.
rsanheim 6y ago
It isn't, at least not in any way most developers use it. You cannot use docker to start a *nix container on a mac, whether its for a arm or x86 OS. some context: https://www.reddit.com/r/docker/comments/jxc1ge/docker_and_apple_m1/gcx686v/ https://www.reddit.com/r/docker/comments/jxc1ge/docker_and_a...
deleted 6y ago
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filmgirlcw 6y ago
It’s not. The client might be but the actual VM is a total mess right now.
benatkin 6y ago
The Docker client works. It is useful, but it's not the same as Docker working.
kccqzy 6y ago
It might be that you can use docker-machine to set up a remote Docker machine and then use a native docker CLI to control that remote instance.
musicale 6y ago
"Docker" on macOS is a Linux VM running docker. Presumably ARM docker images could run in an ARM Linux VM.

hit8run 6y ago

Can you tell me if Ruby is ready?

sohooo 6y ago
In the meantime, you could use the version shipped with macOS: ▶ ruby -v ruby 2.6.3p62 (2019-04-16 revision 67580) [universal.arm64e-darwin20]
WA9ACE 6y ago
I installed arm ruby via arm homebrew using `brew install ruby` and it's working. Anything requiring the ffi gem will not compile at the moment though.

piazz 6y ago

Anybody using it with VSCode? Appreciable perf difference?

emadabdulrahim 6y ago
It works fine on my M1 MBP. Runs intel though not ARM. Which I think is a mistake in the website showing it doesn't work on Rosetta 2
- LolWolf 6y ago
  Agreed on mistake. (Rosetta 2 version runs fine, afaict.) I haven't stress tested the ARM version, but it is the one I'm currently using and I haven't had any issues so far.
  - bpye 6y ago
    The ARM version crashes for me every time I change something in the settings UI, otherwise it seems to work okay.

mandragon 6y ago

Unrelated to the link but related to Apple's CPU foray: Any thoughts or info on the security implications of a first generation CPU design? Is it safe to assume that a design focused on cutting edge performance may have compromised on security in some form? Does the fact that this is first gen indicate opportunity for hackers to discover low hanging fruit vulnerabilities possibly to the benefit of nation state or private actors? I feel like the long term path for silicon will converge on extreme compartmentalization of general purpose computing hardware inside chips, designed from the ground up to achieve physical process isolation purpose built per task, with highly secure hardware IPC all on a single high perf die. Interested to learn what Apple has done to build a "more secure" CPU design. edit: A quick web search yields relevant results on this topic already, e.g. work by Chinese based Tencent Security.

stouset 6y ago
This isn't a first-generation CPU design. It's just another iteration of the ARM chips that Apple has been building since acquiring PA Semi 12 years ago.
- mandragon 6y ago
  Corrected: First generation chip purpose-built for Mac.
  - happycube 6y ago
    ... the first one that shipped. I suspect they've been building things like the A12X mini DTK for a few years now.
    - mandragon 6y ago
      Apple's site says it is their first "chip" designed specifically for Mac: https://www.apple.com/mac/m1/ https://www.apple.com/mac/m1/ I may be making a few semantical errors, regarding "first gen", et al

chadlavi 6y ago

isn't this more like "is this app ready for apple silicon"?

loeg 6y ago
It is exactly that.
jane128 6y ago
it's more like "is Apple silicon ready to be used by x?"
mortenjorck 6y ago
The title is an odd construction, and did throw me off at first. "Is Apple Silicon ready?" Ready for what? Apple Silicon is the fixed quantity in this equation, while the software is what is changing to be ready for Apple Silicon, so the construction feels backward. An alternate construction could be "Is it Apple Silicon-ready," which I suppose one could stretch the title to read as a shortening of, but it's still awkward either way. All that said – this is the best UI I've seen yet for an Apple Silicon compatibility list, confusing title or not.

wgx 6y ago

I wonder why Google didn’t get File Stream ready?

johnklos 6y ago

Silly title. Apple Silicon is obviously ready. Are these software packages ready is the question.

DCKing 6y ago

It really seems that nearly everything that's not a full native ObjC/Swift stack or is not a web browser (or based on one, like Electron) is not ready yet right now. It really seems Apple did not care enough to get especially golang and Rust stuff stable for their hardware release. I can't escape the impression that they didn't really shower the wider ecosystem in DTKs and software support, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong there. Oh well, at least Rosetta2 seems to be working really well - you will be able to run a lot of software you need rather well despite not to the fullest potential. The execution on Rosetta2 is really good and that's important. But I think it does go to show that the "Pro" in "Macbook Pro 13" does not mean all that much. At least not if they're going to ship with the majority of pro software not being native, many popular developer toolchains still months to be ready, and very limited I/O and RAM options. The Macbook Air and Mac Mini I fully get for the first releases on new hardware, but the Macbook Pro 13 really feels odd in this lineup if the word Pro is supposed to mean anything.

egsmi 6y ago
> I can't escape the impression that they didn't really shower the wider ecosystem in DTKs and support, although I'd be happy to proven wrong there. That’s interesting. I was shocked at how many green check marks there are for a chip that was announced in June. It takes time to write and test an application. A lot of teams must’ve really prioritized it. Also, Apple Silicon compatibility is not enough. One needs Big Sur compatibility too.
- DCKing 6y ago
  I don't think the chip's announcement time really should go into anyone's consideration time here, since it's Apple's own choice to go for these timelines and release a "Pro" product in November :) I mean this point is largely moot by Rosetta covering all the basics well and still making the Macbook Pro 13 a serviceable Pro computer for a lot of (but not all) use cases. It just seems strange to me that popular developer things like Go, Rust, Docker, virtualization of any kind are still months away despite these being super important use cases of the Mac. Maybe Apple just doesn't feel that way, or have the numbers showing that my impression isn't true, but it feels strange that they're letting the community just figure it out by themselves now.

brundolf 6y ago

Very cool. Small suggestion: it would be nice to be able to filter by "all apps that have native support or work properly under Rosetta", and maybe also the inverse of that.

savanpatel 6y ago

Why is Apple a Developer for TensorFlow? Is that a mistake in list?

Grustaf 6y ago

Is this sponsored by spotify or why are they up at the top? How many people use spotify on a computer? In any case, the domain nam is incorrect. It should be “isitapplesiliconready”. The chips are clearly ready, it’s just that some developers haven’t recompiled their apps for it yet.

Ninn 6y ago
> In MEA and North America we see the highest preponderance of desktop Spotify listening, on 46%, with MEA also reporting the lowest mobile listening figure of 56% (compared to North America’s 61%). https://www.businessofapps.com/data/spotify-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/spotify-statistics/
Raphmedia 6y ago
It's sorted by "last update".
dblooman 6y ago
Lots of people use Spotify desktop app....

rudolph9 6y ago

Probably not but for better or worse, Apple is a big enough juggernaut that existing software that’s not ready it now has significant motivation to become ready.

canofbars 6y ago
Users will most likely blame the software for not working and not the hardware since all their other software will be working pretty soon.

mpol 6y ago

I would think the apps will come and get optimised. That is just a matter of chicken and egg, sometimes you just have to release, and go from there. What I am worried about is if the GPU is anything worthwhile. All the focus in the reviews is on the CPU, but the GPU seems where it mostly falls short. Not enough external screens for example, though that can be fixed in a newer generation. But is it faster than what Apple hardware included in Intel, with AMD graphics? Some people will feel the regression in speed and capabilities quite hard. I don't see much focus on that in media publications.

lumost 6y ago
It’s a fair bet that it’s substantially inferior to a dedicated gpu at present. They didn’t release an M1 in any premium sku that would be head to head with a dgpu. However, given the investment in both the neural engine and integrated gpu - I wouldn’t be surprised to see something interesting in 6-24 months.
- xrisk 6y ago
  I do believe benchmarks have shown it to be equivalent to a 1050 Ti which is not a pushover card by any means.
lucian1900 6y ago
It’s at least as impressive, if not more https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-tested/3 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-teste...

bklyn11201 6y ago

In my small universe, this was the week of ARM. I submitted multiple PRs to OS projects to get ARM compilations working. I started moving AWS instances off of Intel instances to the new Graviton2 instances. I'm still surprised there isn't more server takeup of ARM considering the incredible power numbers. Cloudflare announced their current builds and it's all Epyc2 and no ARM. What about Azure and Google Cloud? Are ARM servers easy to launch and superior on a cost/performance perspective?

Xevi 6y ago
Scaleway tried ARM and failed: https://www.theregister.com/2020/04/21/scaleway_arm64_cloud_end_of_life/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/04/21/scaleway_arm64_cloud_... But as you can see at the end of the article, other providers are considering/using ARM more.
- marmaduke 6y ago
  I tried ARM on Scaleway and the main benefit was network capacity. Performance was not so good.
  - bklyn11201 6y ago
    Seems like they were just too early and didn't have the capability of an AWS-scale company to work directly with ARM? It seems like the first-gen of Graviton wasn't great, but then they seem to have made huge leaps with Graviton2. https://pages.awscloud.com/rs/112-TZM-766/images/2020_0501-CMP_Slide-Deck.pdf https://pages.awscloud.com/rs/112-TZM-766/images/2020_0501-C...
- neurostimulant 6y ago
  Hmm, I was trying to rent some arm servers on scaleway but they were always out of stock. The article mentioned difficulties operating those servers reliably and they can't just buy hardware from different vendor because there is no other vendor that sells arm server at that moment (pretty much only thunderx server was available for purchase). Maybe things will be different this time and a bunch of new arm server vendors would show up due to renewed interest in arm servers.

xeeeeeeeeeeenu 6y ago

Beta software (like Firefox) shouldn't have got green checkmarks. It's not "ready" yet.

jane128 6y ago
Thanks for the feedback, we've fixed it.

yyyk 6y ago

It's unfortunate that the middle status (warning triangle with a exclamation mark) has a green background rather than a yellow background like warning triangles everywhere else. Makes the table less clear.

jane128 6y ago
we've fixed the warning color, thanks for your feedback.

uxisnotui 6y ago

Please add/track Figma :)

acwan93 6y ago

"Windows" should be on there too: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/20/craig-federighi-on-windows-for-m1-macs/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/20/craig-federighi-on-wind...

uvesten 6y ago

Weird that node is listed as not running under Apple Silicon, since I've been running node 15 compiled for Apple Silicon without problems for a while now :)

dawnerd 6y ago
Did you compile it or is there a prebuilt avail?

glup 6y ago

I totally thought this was going to be one of those static sites with a single answer in h1 fonts ("Is it snowing in San Francisco?" "No") but instead this is much more useful.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

nottorp 6y ago

Can it virtualize x86 operating systems? That's when it will be ready. If you only use the latest version of <whatever javascript lib you're using> it's fine now, i guess. If you maintain legacy apps, you now need an x86 box. And then you have to ask yourself, why buy a Mac too? They need to fix that somehow. They have enough money to sponsor something based on QEMU, for example. They're just cheap.

bigdict 6y ago

Why is World of Warcraft listed under "Developers"? Actually…

leipert 6y ago
You can script Lua, no? Or is that some other game.

everyone 6y ago

Honest question. Why are people here so excited about this? What I've gathered via osmosis here about Apple silicon is. 1. It will only be in macs, you cant buy the chips or mobos to build your own machine. 2. Theyre very energy efficient. 3. Their performance is okish. Doesnt really seems earth shattering.. Like, if they were a super low energy alternative to the duopoly of amd or intel, that would be pretty cool. But if u buy a mac nowadays, its like a console with set stuff in it that u cant change or upgrade.. Now that stuff will be improved / updated in newer macs, does that not happen regularly anyway? EDIT: Several people saying the performance is amazing.. Can u link me to some benchmarks? The only numbers I can find are these. "In Geekbench 5, the A14X yields a single-core score of 1,634 and rakes in 7,220 in the multi-core test." These are very low scores, like, my desktop gets many times that.. My old work low/mid level laptop from 4 years ago had 3000 single core and 11600 multi-core score.

macintux 6y ago
> Their performance is okish That seems an understatement. The first version, targeted at (for Apple) low-end devices, is much faster than most x86-64 based computers.
- happycube 6y ago
  And it's an absolute IPC monster. At 3.2ghz it keeps up with high 4.x-ghz x86 cores. It's been a long time since anything's jumped like that from a good starting point.
djrogers 6y ago
> But if u buy a mac nowadays, its like a console with set stuff in it that u cant change or upgrade That's how most people buy and treat computers. We're the weird ones who upgrade them and keep using them for 9 years, 3 SSDs, and 4 RAM bumps. > Their performance is okish Nope - not even close to merely 'okish'. These first devices (which were clearly targeted as the cheapest, lowest-end devices Apple sells) outperform the vast majority of PCs (and Macs) sold today, and not just by a tiny bit. Look at some of the reviews by developers - in many cases their existing Intel apps and games are running better under Rosetta emulation/bridge/whatever you want to call it then they did on native Intel Macs. Compile times for a $999 MacBook Air beat a $6k+ iMac Pro by 30-40%. Games getting better frame rates under Rosetta than they did on native intel boxes. The list goes on - these chips are beasts, and this is only the beginning. The high-performance versions of these will make people who bought 8/10/12 core iMac Pros recently weep.

tosh 6y ago

this is a sheet for tracking game compatibility and performance (including FPS, settings, system specs and sources) that I set up yesterday https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1er-NivvuIheDmIKBVRu3S_BzA_lZT5z3Z-CxQZ-uPVs/ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1er-NivvuIheDmIKBVRu3... first results are impressive, there are reports of games that were unplayable on the 2020 Intel MacBook Air that now run well on the M1 MacBook Air

suyash 6y ago

Missing 'Java' under programming languages / runtime. Last I heard it's being worked upon.

zachberger 6y ago

Sorting on the columns with checkboxes seems broken.

EugeneOZ 6y ago

Maybe not 100% yet, but it moves incredibly fast to this goal.

tlrobinson 6y ago

I’ll gladly let you fine folks sort out this mess, and I’ll check back in next year. Thanks! Seriously though, what’s the plan for Docker? Will all containers need to be built for ARM or will Rosetta 2 be able to run Docker in an x86 VM? Homebrew is my other benchmark.

mr_toad 6y ago
> what’s the plan for Docker? Rosetta doesn’t support virtualisation (which would be needed to run the Linux VM under which the containers run). So you’d need an ARM version of Docker, and an ARM Linux VM, and since the containers rely on that Linux kernel, I assume ARM containers running ARM software. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou... I suppose it might be possible to develop a para-virtualisation framework that runs under Rosetta.

xyst 6y ago

It's amazing how fast applications are being transitioned to apple silicon. If this was any other company introducing a new architecture, I am sure adoption wouldn't have been this fast.

macintux 6y ago
Apple has the advantage of a long track record of pulling the plug on old tech. No one thinks for a moment that they’re going to try to straddle the middle of the road by offering both platforms any longer than they have to. Being a decisive, opinionated company means that you anger a lot of people, but it also means you’re predictable once you’ve announced something like this.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

coryfklein 6y ago

I've been through enough Mac upgrades by now to learn that I'm going to have a better time waiting for M2. I'm not really interested in jumping on this particular early adopter train. As a developer, who knows what random tweaks and system behaviors I rely on to get my job done, but that will be completely broken on a new Mac. I certainly am heartened by all the news about processing power improvements. I'll just join the rest of y'all young whippersnappers after you pay the early adopter tax for me.

ceejayoz 6y ago
> I've been through enough Mac upgrades by now to learn that I'm going to have a better time waiting for M2. If this was a brand new chip, yes, but Apple's chips have had years worth of proofing in iPads etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors

alkonaut 6y ago

I can only imagine the horror it must be to be maintaining mac x86 software that turns out to not work with Rosetta (Like some of the examples listed). I do windows desktop work and try to picture what would happen if our customers were suddenly moving to Win10 on Arm and expecting our software to work. We have dozens and dozens of third party binary dependencies, each of which could turn out to be the one that doesn’t translate. Not all of them could realistically be replaced or updated. The situation would basically be one where Microsoft had announced the death of our software and probably business.

macintux 6y ago
Long-time Mac developers are familiar with these transitions, and everyone had the opportunity to pick up development hardware this summer, so while it’s certainly not something to treat lightly, everyone with customers should have known what they were up against by now.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Yeah but if I have a 10mb binary dependency on an x86 lib with no source code and the company that made it is long since gone, then deprecating x86 would make me sweat a bit.

trixie_ 6y ago

Constant software compatibility issues is what caused people to avoid WindowsRT.. depending on how soon Apple resolves these issues will determine if people stick with M1 or migrate to Windows 10. My company runs on Windows with lots of 3rd party domain specific windows apps. We use Mac laptops because the hardware is nice, but it's probably not going to be an option for us in the future.

musicale 6y ago

They should probably differentiate between Rosetta 2 issues and Big Sur issues.

amelius 6y ago

A better question is: am I ready for locked-down silicon?

retox 6y ago

"High risk website blocked"

penguin_booze 6y ago

Aplogies for the meta: does anyone know/how do I find out what component library is used on the site? It looks to me some kind of material design flavor. Context: I'm after a flexible material-like table component for a personal project.

anupamchugh 6y ago

For Android Developers, running Android Studio on M1 Macs is turning out to be a nightmare. The UI is sluggish and gradle builds are drastically slow. Seems like JetBrains still needs to get their softwares ready for Apple Silicon: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-2526 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-2526