16 ms·

Librem 5 Mass Production Phone Has Begun Shipping

514 points by nunodonato 6y ago

Rooster61 6y ago
Been waiting to see this. Still holding off on buying one though until I see better battery numbers and a few more actual phones in customer hands. Very excited about this product, despite a lot of the bad press it had earlier on (of which some seemed justified considering the timeframe). Anybody got their hands on one and can speak for the current state of usability?
- fsflover 6y ago
  https://forums.puri.sm/t/received-my-librem-5-evergreen/10877 https://forums.puri.sm/t/received-my-librem-5-evergreen/1087...
- diegoperini 6y ago
  I wonder if they ship to Turkey and my sim card will work. I'd love to have one of these.
mikewave 6y ago
This looks really cool, it's nice to see an open-source product like this come to fruition. I think it would make an excellent phone for people who aren't heavily invested in the app / social network ecosystem, or as a work phone. Does anyone know whether there's some expectation that at some point we'd see first-party apps for common social networks on PureOS? Like, are they going after it at all, or is it intended as a web-first play?
- tristan957 6y ago
  Anbox already works on PureOS I believe, but you're probably more likely to get PWAs of your social networks.
  - freedomben 6y ago
    FWIW I use the mobile web client for twitter and facebook and it is totally fine. I prefer it that way to sandbox them (check out slim social if you are on Android). That said I'm a rare user. A more die hard might care more.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    Video reviews of Purism/Pine's phones using anbox, WhatsApp ideally^, is all that's keeping me from buying either. ^I would love not to use it, but there's just too much to miss. People, including my parents, that I otherwise don't have a decent line of communication with. (Pre-2020) ice hockey group is managed there. Etc.
    - linmob 6y ago
      Um.. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-9Wmki7DsU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-9Wmki7DsU And this video is outdated, the UI overlap issues is supposedly fixed by now so that I am going to have to do another video on that same boring topic.
- opan 6y ago
  They've got a fediverse app, but I don't think they'll be making their own stuff for Facebook, Twitter, etc. It just doesn't seem to line up with their beliefs. However, this thing is a general purpose computer, similar to a raspberry pi with a screen and such attached, so all sorts of stuff can already run on it without Purism needing to bless it. There are probably even some clients already for some of the big social networks. Just did a quick search and found out about Cawbird. https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/09/linux-twitter-app-cawbird-adds-new-features-lowers-memory-usage https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/09/linux-twitter-app-cawbir...
AsyncAwait 6y ago
I backed this originally when it was supposed to ship in January 2019. The project had a lot to tackle, developing unique hardware and software with a tiny budget compared to Google/Apple. I am so glad the guys at Purism reached this point and did not give in to the folks who said the project would fail. Phosh, their GNOME-derived shell, is now also used by many distros on the PinePhone, which is exactly the spirit of free software I wanted to see for the smartphone when I originally backed this.
- messo 6y ago
  I have waited on this phone since I pre-ordered it in 2017. Worth the wait and I'm happy to have contributed financially to all the hard work that has been put into making a much better linux experience on mobile devices in general, not only the Librem 5.
  - em3rgent0rdr 6y ago
    Same here.
- kop316 6y ago
  Something I have been noting when working with this community is Purism employees actively helping the Pinephone community developers with software support/coding and vice versa. It has been awesome to see such cooperation between the two communities (and I think there is a huge intersection between the two). It is something I think that is truly awesome to see, and like you said, it has been in the spirit of free software. I am hoping that with more folks with a Librem (and Pinephone), that the software will mature even quicker.
- rfvrgvegbegn 6y ago
  Totally agree. Nipick : Posh is not related to GNOME shell in any way. It is a from-scratch implementation of a mobile window manager in C on top of Wlroots (while Gnome is JavaScript on top of Mutter)
  - JoshTriplett 6y ago
dleslie 6y ago
I've been trying to use the PinePhone as a daily driver and it simply isn't there yet: camera is slow to the point of unusable and sometimes it hard crashes when making calls. Here's hoping that Purism has done a good job of cleaning up some of the issues in Phosh.
- ben-schaaf 6y ago
  > camera is slow to the point of unusable If you're not using "Megapixels" you should be. The camera is still quite slow (though I've been working on improving that) but it's pretty usable - at least for taking pictures.
  - dleslie 6y ago
    I am using Megapixels, and usable is not what I would describe its performance as.
    - MartijnBraam 6y ago
      so far it's ~6x faster than the previous implementation (and you can drop resolution in the config file to get it closer to 30fps than 1fps but that has a quality trade-off)
      - dleslie 6y ago
        Still results in blurry photos of my kids. ;)
- The_Colonel 6y ago
  > camera is slow to the point of unusable Camera in Librem 5 doesn't work at all so there's that.
TACIXAT 6y ago
I hope I get to update my address before they ship it. I've moved a solid 3 times since backing this.
- tristan957 6y ago
  You should probably reach out to support to be sure.
- craftkiller 6y ago
  They have to contact you to ask you which modem you want, so that would be a good time to bring up an address change.
- prophesi 6y ago
  You can log in to your account here https://shop.puri.sm/my-account/ https://shop.puri.sm/my-account/ and go to the Addresses tab to edit your current shipping address. I've had to do the same, as a backer since June '19.
  - weikju 6y ago
    This does not update the shipping address for an existing order (confirmed somewhere on the Purism forums), so you will need to look out for the confirmation email and update your address at that time too.
- malikolivier 6y ago
  I moved twice since I originally backed it. Each time, I was able to update the shipping address on my account: https://shop.puri.sm/my-account/edit-address/ https://shop.puri.sm/my-account/edit-address/ For good measure, I just checked and the currently set shipping address in indeed my current and latest address!
  - weikju 6y ago
    More importantly, it was confirmed on the forum that changing your address in your account will NOT update the Librem 5 shipping address. Purism is emailing each person to get their updated address, modem preferences and give them a chance to purchase additional accessories, before they ship the phones. So you'll need to be on the lookout for that pre-shipping email to update your address correctly.
ianmobbs 6y ago
I've been following Purism for a month or so, and I love the idea of the Librem 5, but is the phone really going to be worth $2,000?
- Rooster61 6y ago
  Only the US-produced version is $2000, and that's an accurate price considering the difficulty of manufacturing an entire phone platform domestically. The regular version is $799.
- SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
  You aren't buying a phone when you buy the librem 5. You are funding the development of open source phones so there will eventually be a v2 and v3 which are better value for money when the hard work was done in v1.
  - inquirerofsorts 6y ago
    > You are funding the development of open source phones You're funding a FOSS operating system and a phone with some security features. We already have dozens of open source mobile OS's, the hardware design is still proprietary. What's really needed is an open source baseband firmware and no one is funding that sadly. Despite the baseband/cpu isolation I fear it still has a host of vulnerabilities up its sleeve. One AT command away from certain doom (yes that's sarcastic hyperbole with a sliver of truth)
    - m463 6y ago
      The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    You're also funding the allegedly inefficient supply chain. Too bad I can't find the post about it right now, it was from an ex-purism guy. Edit: It's the top one of the two linked by pengaru (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25143382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25143382 / https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T...). > Purism seemingly never tried to get better deal and the South San Francisco partner abused this so that is why Purism Librems are double the price they should be.
OneLeggedCat 6y ago
This still won't even do MMS, and battery life is terrible. Nonetheless I truly hope it succeeds.
- seba_dos1 6y ago
  Not out-of-box in a user friendly way yet, but hackers gonna hack: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/30#note_125426 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/30#note_12542...
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Lack of MMS is a shortcoming that really affects only North America. MMS is not widely used elsewhere. Really, getting Whatsapp to work through an Android emulation layer like Anbox is the higher priority for much of the world now.
  - teekert 6y ago
    I believe there are Matrix/Element - WhatsApp bridges. They require some setup and its not for everyone but for me it would be an option.
    - OJFord 6y ago
      No audio/video calls though.
      - linmob 6y ago
        Neither via Anbox currently unless it is massively better on Librem 5 than on PinePhone.
  - kop316 6y ago
    https://puri.sm/posts/anbox-on-the-librem-5/ https://puri.sm/posts/anbox-on-the-librem-5/
  - pmontra 6y ago
myself248 6y ago
Wooooo! I'm in this batch and I was just looking at a Pinephone story thinking I should check in on Purism. This is quite an ambitious project and I'm expecting it to be a bit rough around the edges. But if I can actually ditch the old Samsung and be purely open-source, that's so, so worth it.
LockAndLol 6y ago
What I'd like to know is how much non-USains will be paying in customs. I remember backing it when it cost 700$ or something, looking up the customs for UK and gasping. It was about 150£. Don't know what it's going to be for Australia or the EU. There was also a thread not long ago about Brazil and India having sky-high customs that nearly doubled the price of imported electronic goods.
- seba_dos1 6y ago
  I paid 350 zł (about $90) when I was receiving my Librem 5 Birch in Poland. Most of that was VAT and I even got that written off.
- wheybags 6y ago
  I bought a librem 13 years ago and got fucked on customs. ~500 Euros iirc. I completely forgot that import tax was a thing because I'd never had to pay it before, since I bought stuff from the EU, or that was too cheap to matter. I remember reading something about them partnering with someone in Germany to alleviate this, but I didn't find anything concrete with a quick search just noe.
  - pengaru 6y ago
    How did the librem 13 pan out?
    - wheybags 6y ago
      I'm really happy with it. I don't heavily use my laptop, mostly only when traveling. The only problem I've had with it is I discovered recently that the built in microphone isn't working, but I never tried to use it until about 3 or so years after I bought it, so I've no idea if it arrived like that or got broken later.
- elric 6y ago
  YMMV but generally speaking you pay whatever the normal VAT rate would be + some import rate (~5-10% generally) + some handling fee. Usually around 30% is a safeish estimate. It obviously depends on where you live, what import rates and VAT rates you have and so on.
mamon 6y ago
Possibly stupid question, but I'm really concerned, considering buying Librem 5 myself: what do we really know about Purism, and how do we know they are not NSA honeypot?
- pengaru 6y ago
  There's cause for concern re: the company/leadership/quality, but nothing remotely related to the NSA. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T... http://techrights.org/2019/10/31/purism-false-promises/ http://techrights.org/2019/10/31/purism-false-promises/
  - lallysingh 6y ago
    From the first: "There was never a single answer that made sense and only one answer actually ever "it will be $300 per device and some company said they would do it even if we hit only 5000 devices". You need to realize this was before we even knew what materials we will use, how the phone will look and so on. So vapor all the way." This sounds exactly like the dev had no idea how manufacturing or investor relations goes. You need some numbers to tell investors, and you need the investment to design the phone, so you estimate. Using a price target of $300 seems reasonable. From the second, I read it a long time ago and just skimmed it now, I read it as they hit major setbacks (perhaps because instead of rebadging existing stock they're suddenly building something new) and didn't want their money to dry up by scaring off the folks paying for the hardware. The "raise money to build a new device with no manufacturing experience ends up taking forever, costing a lot more, and making people unhappy" story is an old one now. Kickstarter is full of these. I don't see any evidence that there's anything going on more than inexperience here.
- rfvrgvegbegn 6y ago
  You don't have to trust them, everything is open and auditable. The only black boxes like the modem are physically separated from the chip and sandboxed over USB. If you don't trust them, format it and install your favorite distro + Posh (which is also open source ) that you downloaded yourself
amelius 6y ago
Curious, since this is open source: is it possible to try out the software on a desktop machine first?
- seba_dos1 6y ago
  Sure; all the stuff in the repos is even compiled for amd64 as well. Check out the QEMU images - https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Boards/qemu.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Bo... If you really want you could even install PureOS amber-phone straight onto your PC (although there's no hand-holding howto for that ;)). See https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-mobile-pureos/ https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-mobile-pureos/ for more info.
  - amelius 6y ago
    Wow, thanks! That's some great work there, and easier to run than expected.
- pabs3 6y ago
  The software is just another Debian derivative, so anything that applies to Debian, probably applies to Purism PureOS and devices that are running it.
muyuu 6y ago
is there any up-to-date comparison between Librem, Jolla/Sailfish, PinePhone, (...)?
- ncmncm 6y ago
  Librem 5 is fatter and heavier, PinePhone is slimmer but with a smaller battery. You can buy, what, 3 PPs for the price of a Librem 5, with enough left over for 3 or 4 backup batteries, or one PP and dozens. I can't tell you what the Librem 5 is really like, because they haven't shipped mine yet, but the PP is very, very nice.
  - memling 6y ago
    >I can't tell you what the Librem 5 is really like, because they haven't shipped mine yet, but the PP is very, very nice. I guess my question is: can you use the PinePhone (or Librem 5) as a phone? Can you reliably make and receive calls? Can you reliably send/receive SMS and MMS? Does it have error recovery if for some reason you don't get a message? Does the battery last for a reasonable day (>= 16 hours)? What networks are compatible, and do they work with MVNOs and not just the big boys? I've used SailfishOS in the past and enjoyed it—and would've continued using it, but my phone died and I bought a KaiOS burner and never updated. I've toyed with the idea of picking up a PinePhone because it's more within my budget; but I want my phone to, you know, be a phone—not (just) a miniature computer that fits in my pocket. I have a fairly high pain tolerance (Sailfish wasn't exactly polished the way I wanted), but if I can't make or receive calls or SMS/MMS, that's a serious problem whether I can run Blender on it or not.
    - blihp 6y ago
      Re: the Pinephone: 1) You can (mostly) reliably make and receive calls 2) SMS but no MMS. IIRC, if someone sends you an MMS it will jam up the SMS app (not sure if it is/was a modem firmware or app issue or if it's been resolved yet or not) 3) Error recovery... hahahaha. Umm, no. I still see a fair number of messages re: people needing to tweak the modem due to text messaging issues. 4) Battery life is far better than it was but not as good as it needs to be. If you use the phone moderately, it should make it through the day. Heavy usage can kill it in a couple of hours. 5) Other than possibly Verizon, I think it's been confirmed working on all the major carriers and MVNOs. I only single out Verizon because IIRC they have/had a policy of needing to whitelist devices so I'm not sure if there's an issue there or not. If you liked SailfishOS, there is some activity re: getting it running on the Pinephone: https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=126 https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=126 Basically you're asking if it's 'daily driver' ready. My opinion is not currently, but opinions vary on this point. That said, if you're a heavy Linux user with an interest in mobile you might want to pick one up... it really is a fantastic little portable Linux device.
reducesuffering 6y ago
For someone on the fence, how concerned should they be about app capabilities? So general phone use for things like social media and banking are going through the web apps in a browser. Many of these like Instagram and Reddit are intentionally handicapped outside of a native app.
- orthecreedence 6y ago
  I was looking into this earlier today. Apparently things like https://anbox.io/ https://anbox.io/ might provide a solution. I'm not sure how well they work in the absense of things like Google Play services, but that might be a solved problem with those apps being packaged for install by OSs like Lineage. I too would love an open source smartphone, but couldn't see myself fully jumping on board without at least some pathway to support existing apps (even if they take a few extra steps to use).
  - sangnoir 6y ago
    Banking applications do "security" checks on lauch to check your phone for signs of rooting. I doubt very many banking apps will run in an emulator. To be clear, I am speculating.
    - orthecreedence 6y ago
      Yes, they might not like it, although I wonder if Anbox might have a non-rooted version that works just like non-rooted Android. Also, banking is one of those things where in 95% of the cases you probably don't need an app because they all have web portals (although, I know some banks don't let you deposit checks remotely without an app, so that is an issue).
  - eznzt 6y ago
    Anbox sounds good, I wish there was a version for Windows.
- PopeRigby 6y ago
  There's a cool GTK app called Giara that works well on mobile Linux.
11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
I'm thinking about taking a sabbatical next year, 15 countries in 7 months. How well does Librem travel?
- hackernewslol 6y ago
  Ok, you can buy models for different regions and swap them, but the antenna cables are only rated for 10 duty cycles so you can't do it a bunch of times. Purism has said that the modem switch is more designed for if you move or if it breaks, not so you can travel between the US and Europe often or whatever. You can probably purchase extension cables or something rated for more cycled though, but that might be expensive/specialised.
brbsix 6y ago
Given their extensive history posting similar promotional material every time that they run out of cash, it would be wise to remain skeptical of this announcement. For the unacquainted, they've made outrageously false claims like this more times than I can count. I don't have the time or interest to outline all the lies but here's when it "began shipping" back in 9/2019.[0][1] As to the one person in the forums who claims to have received it, and the other on reddit who claims to have a tracking number, we've seen that before as well. [0]: http://archive.today/2019.09.06-222312/https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-shipping-announcement/ http://archive.today/2019.09.06-222312/https://puri.sm/posts... [1]: "The Librem 5 smartphone. Now Shipping" 9/25/2019 https://youtu.be/AuT2w6BkT-k https://youtu.be/AuT2w6BkT-k http://archive.today/S7lCT http://archive.today/S7lCT
- MacsHeadroom 6y ago
  They did ship and have been shipping batches. This is the mass production run, not the early adopter dev phones you can find on eBay.
  - brbsix 6y ago
    You could address the substance of my comment by providing evidence. I'm trying to be polite about it, but the astroturfing is obvious.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      https://forums.puri.sm/t/received-my-librem-5-evergreen/10877 https://forums.puri.sm/t/received-my-librem-5-evergreen/1087... https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#87-why-has-the-time-to-release-the-librem-5-increased-from-17-to-39-months https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... (see also other questions there)
      - brbsix 6y ago
        The author of that forum post is unwilling to publish video of the device.
Valkhyr 6y ago
Looking forward to getting mine. While I don't see this replacing my Android as a daily-driver anytime soon (and possibly never), I am very excited to have an unrestricted computer in my pocket :-) Especially once the pandemic gets under control and I visit coffee shops or hang out with friends again, this will be great for some programming/study on the go :-) Maybe this will finally give me the kick to learn about GTK application development.
- toyg 6y ago
  > GTK application development Sigh, is this the only way to build apps for it? I hope not...
  - fsflover 6y ago
    https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html
  - roblabla 6y ago
    It's GNU/Linux, you can build apps however you want. The PureOS distro is based on Gnome so GTK is the blessed framework for app development. However, Qt works just as well, and is used a lot in KDE's Plasma Mobile. And if that doesn't suit you either, any other framework will work, with the caveat that they might not support mobile form factor natively.
    - toyg 6y ago
      Yeah, I was hoping Qt would be a first-class citizen. My previous experiences with GTK on mobile have been bad (little or no docs, unconsistent APIs, etc etc...). I had a look at their docs and I like the focus on Python, I'll probably give it a go. If I can get a decent result with PyQt I'll probably order one of these bad boys.
      - inawarminister 6y ago
        PinePhone with KDE Plasma Mobile is going to be sold in the next few weeks so you might be interested in that as well!
ashishb 6y ago
Why aren't HNers more excited about their laptop? I only see the the Liberem phone related posts on the front page every few months.
- pengaru 6y ago
  Their laptops are overpriced closed mediocrity with a not so great reputation when it comes to reliability. I'm still rocking used Intel ThinkPads, can run ME-cleaner and install coreboot myself, and rip out the internal wifi card in favor of a USB wifi dongle I can unplug for HW kill switch equivalence. They cost a few hundred bucks, support 16G RAM, and have epic keyboards+reliability. The mntmn reform 2 [0] looks like an OPEN laptop effort far more worth supporting than anything Purism does in this space IMHO. Purism doesn't produce anything remotely resembling open hardware AFAIK. [0] https://mntre.com/reform/ https://mntre.com/reform/
  - seba_dos1 6y ago
    It's worth noting that the MNT Reform runs on the exact same SoC the Librem 5 does.
    - pengaru 6y ago
      It's also worth noting that the Reform utilizes a necessarily large heat sink in a spacious case, for that same SoC the Librem 5 shoehorns into a handset, despite not even having WWAN electronics heat to dissipate. Expect the Librem 5 performance to be heavily throttled for thermal reasons alone.
      - seba_dos1 6y ago
        Nah, I'm compiling plenty of stuff right on the phone (Librem 5 Dogwood) and it rarely hits the thermal throttling threshold. It has plenty of mass to dissipate that heat now (the whole metal plate behind the screen), earlier revisions had much worse thermals. This week I've played games on it for almost an hour attached to external 1080p screen and it was pretty warm in touch, but not hot at all; the CPU sensor showed 55°C and quickly cooled down when it went idle. Of course Reform is going to perform much better at sustained high loads, that's obvious, but Librem 5's thermals really aren't bad. If anything, its thermals have the opposite problem - the lower bound of its temperature is rather high (around 30°C) as it doesn't suspend. Regarding the upper bound, I really don't think about it at all during my regular usage.
Uhrheber 6y ago
Can I try PureOS, as it runs on the phone, in a simulator? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
- AshOhms 6y ago
  Last I tried, it was a bit tricky to set up but there are instructions for setting up an emulator here: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Boards/emulators.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Bo...
fsflover 6y ago
Community wiki with frequently asked questions about Librem 5: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
cinntaile 6y ago
The article seems to be missing a picture of the actual phone.
- fsflover 6y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC64-PJ-yoF7aJ9pIHWEbrTQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC64-PJ-yoF7aJ9pIHWEbrTQ/vid...
  - cinntaile 6y ago
    Thanks. I went looking for a picture though but I really think the article should include one. The importance of marketing and presentation can't be overstated for such a niche product.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      At the bottom of the first post: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p....
    - fsflover 6y ago
      https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-visual-walkthrough/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-visual-walkthrough/
samstave 6y ago
Please update the blog entry and your site - it took many clicks to get to specs and price - and you have two separate write-ups on specs, and price on only one page.
lifeformed 6y ago
How come the product page doesn't list the dimensions of them phone?
- fsflover 6y ago
  The dimensions have changed between the preliminary batches. The final ones are here: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#12-what-are-the-weight-and-dimensions-of-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
zepto 6y ago
Why does this cost 10x the cost of the PinePhone? The specs are a little better, but not by that much.
- hackernewslol 6y ago
  They are developing all the software for the PinePhone and have to recoup somehow. Also it is supposedly a lot better built.
- fsflover 6y ago
  https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#39-why-did-purism-decide-to-create-the-new-phosh-interface https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...

514 points by nunodonato 6y ago

Been waiting to see this. Still holding off on buying one though until I see better battery numbers and a few more actual phones in customer hands. Very excited about this product, despite a lot of the bad press it had earlier on (of which some seemed justified considering the timeframe). Anybody got their hands on one and can speak for the current state of usability?

fsflover 6y ago
https://forums.puri.sm/t/received-my-librem-5-evergreen/10877 https://forums.puri.sm/t/received-my-librem-5-evergreen/1087...
diegoperini 6y ago
I wonder if they ship to Turkey and my sim card will work. I'd love to have one of these.

mikewave 6y ago

This looks really cool, it's nice to see an open-source product like this come to fruition. I think it would make an excellent phone for people who aren't heavily invested in the app / social network ecosystem, or as a work phone. Does anyone know whether there's some expectation that at some point we'd see first-party apps for common social networks on PureOS? Like, are they going after it at all, or is it intended as a web-first play?

tristan957 6y ago
Anbox already works on PureOS I believe, but you're probably more likely to get PWAs of your social networks.
- freedomben 6y ago
  FWIW I use the mobile web client for twitter and facebook and it is totally fine. I prefer it that way to sandbox them (check out slim social if you are on Android). That said I'm a rare user. A more die hard might care more.
- OJFord 6y ago
  Video reviews of Purism/Pine's phones using anbox, WhatsApp ideally^, is all that's keeping me from buying either. ^I would love not to use it, but there's just too much to miss. People, including my parents, that I otherwise don't have a decent line of communication with. (Pre-2020) ice hockey group is managed there. Etc.
  - linmob 6y ago
    Um.. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-9Wmki7DsU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-9Wmki7DsU And this video is outdated, the UI overlap issues is supposedly fixed by now so that I am going to have to do another video on that same boring topic.
opan 6y ago
They've got a fediverse app, but I don't think they'll be making their own stuff for Facebook, Twitter, etc. It just doesn't seem to line up with their beliefs. However, this thing is a general purpose computer, similar to a raspberry pi with a screen and such attached, so all sorts of stuff can already run on it without Purism needing to bless it. There are probably even some clients already for some of the big social networks. Just did a quick search and found out about Cawbird. https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/09/linux-twitter-app-cawbird-adds-new-features-lowers-memory-usage https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/09/linux-twitter-app-cawbir...

AsyncAwait 6y ago

I backed this originally when it was supposed to ship in January 2019. The project had a lot to tackle, developing unique hardware and software with a tiny budget compared to Google/Apple. I am so glad the guys at Purism reached this point and did not give in to the folks who said the project would fail. Phosh, their GNOME-derived shell, is now also used by many distros on the PinePhone, which is exactly the spirit of free software I wanted to see for the smartphone when I originally backed this.

messo 6y ago
I have waited on this phone since I pre-ordered it in 2017. Worth the wait and I'm happy to have contributed financially to all the hard work that has been put into making a much better linux experience on mobile devices in general, not only the Librem 5.
- em3rgent0rdr 6y ago
  Same here.
kop316 6y ago
Something I have been noting when working with this community is Purism employees actively helping the Pinephone community developers with software support/coding and vice versa. It has been awesome to see such cooperation between the two communities (and I think there is a huge intersection between the two). It is something I think that is truly awesome to see, and like you said, it has been in the spirit of free software. I am hoping that with more folks with a Librem (and Pinephone), that the software will mature even quicker.
rfvrgvegbegn 6y ago
Totally agree. Nipick : Posh is not related to GNOME shell in any way. It is a from-scratch implementation of a mobile window manager in C on top of Wlroots (while Gnome is JavaScript on top of Mutter)
- JoshTriplett 6y ago

dleslie 6y ago

I've been trying to use the PinePhone as a daily driver and it simply isn't there yet: camera is slow to the point of unusable and sometimes it hard crashes when making calls. Here's hoping that Purism has done a good job of cleaning up some of the issues in Phosh.

ben-schaaf 6y ago
> camera is slow to the point of unusable If you're not using "Megapixels" you should be. The camera is still quite slow (though I've been working on improving that) but it's pretty usable - at least for taking pictures.
- dleslie 6y ago
  I am using Megapixels, and usable is not what I would describe its performance as.
  - MartijnBraam 6y ago
    so far it's ~6x faster than the previous implementation (and you can drop resolution in the config file to get it closer to 30fps than 1fps but that has a quality trade-off)
    - dleslie 6y ago
      Still results in blurry photos of my kids. ;)
The_Colonel 6y ago
> camera is slow to the point of unusable Camera in Librem 5 doesn't work at all so there's that.

TACIXAT 6y ago

I hope I get to update my address before they ship it. I've moved a solid 3 times since backing this.

tristan957 6y ago
You should probably reach out to support to be sure.
craftkiller 6y ago
They have to contact you to ask you which modem you want, so that would be a good time to bring up an address change.
prophesi 6y ago
You can log in to your account here https://shop.puri.sm/my-account/ https://shop.puri.sm/my-account/ and go to the Addresses tab to edit your current shipping address. I've had to do the same, as a backer since June '19.
- weikju 6y ago
  This does not update the shipping address for an existing order (confirmed somewhere on the Purism forums), so you will need to look out for the confirmation email and update your address at that time too.
malikolivier 6y ago
I moved twice since I originally backed it. Each time, I was able to update the shipping address on my account: https://shop.puri.sm/my-account/edit-address/ https://shop.puri.sm/my-account/edit-address/ For good measure, I just checked and the currently set shipping address in indeed my current and latest address!
- weikju 6y ago
  More importantly, it was confirmed on the forum that changing your address in your account will NOT update the Librem 5 shipping address. Purism is emailing each person to get their updated address, modem preferences and give them a chance to purchase additional accessories, before they ship the phones. So you'll need to be on the lookout for that pre-shipping email to update your address correctly.

ianmobbs 6y ago

I've been following Purism for a month or so, and I love the idea of the Librem 5, but is the phone really going to be worth $2,000?

Rooster61 6y ago
Only the US-produced version is $2000, and that's an accurate price considering the difficulty of manufacturing an entire phone platform domestically. The regular version is $799.
SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
You aren't buying a phone when you buy the librem 5. You are funding the development of open source phones so there will eventually be a v2 and v3 which are better value for money when the hard work was done in v1.
- inquirerofsorts 6y ago
  > You are funding the development of open source phones You're funding a FOSS operating system and a phone with some security features. We already have dozens of open source mobile OS's, the hardware design is still proprietary. What's really needed is an open source baseband firmware and no one is funding that sadly. Despite the baseband/cpu isolation I fear it still has a host of vulnerabilities up its sleeve. One AT command away from certain doom (yes that's sarcastic hyperbole with a sliver of truth)
  - m463 6y ago
    The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
- solarkraft 6y ago
  You're also funding the allegedly inefficient supply chain. Too bad I can't find the post about it right now, it was from an ex-purism guy. Edit: It's the top one of the two linked by pengaru (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25143382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25143382 / https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T...). > Purism seemingly never tried to get better deal and the South San Francisco partner abused this so that is why Purism Librems are double the price they should be.

OneLeggedCat 6y ago

This still won't even do MMS, and battery life is terrible. Nonetheless I truly hope it succeeds.

seba_dos1 6y ago
Not out-of-box in a user friendly way yet, but hackers gonna hack: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/30#note_125426 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/30#note_12542...
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Lack of MMS is a shortcoming that really affects only North America. MMS is not widely used elsewhere. Really, getting Whatsapp to work through an Android emulation layer like Anbox is the higher priority for much of the world now.
- teekert 6y ago
  I believe there are Matrix/Element - WhatsApp bridges. They require some setup and its not for everyone but for me it would be an option.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    No audio/video calls though.
    - linmob 6y ago
      Neither via Anbox currently unless it is massively better on Librem 5 than on PinePhone.
- kop316 6y ago
  https://puri.sm/posts/anbox-on-the-librem-5/ https://puri.sm/posts/anbox-on-the-librem-5/
- pmontra 6y ago

myself248 6y ago

Wooooo! I'm in this batch and I was just looking at a Pinephone story thinking I should check in on Purism. This is quite an ambitious project and I'm expecting it to be a bit rough around the edges. But if I can actually ditch the old Samsung and be purely open-source, that's so, so worth it.

LockAndLol 6y ago

What I'd like to know is how much non-USains will be paying in customs. I remember backing it when it cost 700$ or something, looking up the customs for UK and gasping. It was about 150£. Don't know what it's going to be for Australia or the EU. There was also a thread not long ago about Brazil and India having sky-high customs that nearly doubled the price of imported electronic goods.

seba_dos1 6y ago
I paid 350 zł (about $90) when I was receiving my Librem 5 Birch in Poland. Most of that was VAT and I even got that written off.
wheybags 6y ago
I bought a librem 13 years ago and got fucked on customs. ~500 Euros iirc. I completely forgot that import tax was a thing because I'd never had to pay it before, since I bought stuff from the EU, or that was too cheap to matter. I remember reading something about them partnering with someone in Germany to alleviate this, but I didn't find anything concrete with a quick search just noe.
- pengaru 6y ago
  How did the librem 13 pan out?
  - wheybags 6y ago
    I'm really happy with it. I don't heavily use my laptop, mostly only when traveling. The only problem I've had with it is I discovered recently that the built in microphone isn't working, but I never tried to use it until about 3 or so years after I bought it, so I've no idea if it arrived like that or got broken later.
elric 6y ago
YMMV but generally speaking you pay whatever the normal VAT rate would be + some import rate (~5-10% generally) + some handling fee. Usually around 30% is a safeish estimate. It obviously depends on where you live, what import rates and VAT rates you have and so on.

mamon 6y ago

Possibly stupid question, but I'm really concerned, considering buying Librem 5 myself: what do we really know about Purism, and how do we know they are not NSA honeypot?

pengaru 6y ago
There's cause for concern re: the company/leadership/quality, but nothing remotely related to the NSA. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T... http://techrights.org/2019/10/31/purism-false-promises/ http://techrights.org/2019/10/31/purism-false-promises/
- lallysingh 6y ago
  From the first: "There was never a single answer that made sense and only one answer actually ever "it will be $300 per device and some company said they would do it even if we hit only 5000 devices". You need to realize this was before we even knew what materials we will use, how the phone will look and so on. So vapor all the way." This sounds exactly like the dev had no idea how manufacturing or investor relations goes. You need some numbers to tell investors, and you need the investment to design the phone, so you estimate. Using a price target of $300 seems reasonable. From the second, I read it a long time ago and just skimmed it now, I read it as they hit major setbacks (perhaps because instead of rebadging existing stock they're suddenly building something new) and didn't want their money to dry up by scaring off the folks paying for the hardware. The "raise money to build a new device with no manufacturing experience ends up taking forever, costing a lot more, and making people unhappy" story is an old one now. Kickstarter is full of these. I don't see any evidence that there's anything going on more than inexperience here.
rfvrgvegbegn 6y ago
You don't have to trust them, everything is open and auditable. The only black boxes like the modem are physically separated from the chip and sandboxed over USB. If you don't trust them, format it and install your favorite distro + Posh (which is also open source ) that you downloaded yourself

amelius 6y ago

Curious, since this is open source: is it possible to try out the software on a desktop machine first?

seba_dos1 6y ago
Sure; all the stuff in the repos is even compiled for amd64 as well. Check out the QEMU images - https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Boards/qemu.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Bo... If you really want you could even install PureOS amber-phone straight onto your PC (although there's no hand-holding howto for that ;)). See https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-mobile-pureos/ https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-mobile-pureos/ for more info.
- amelius 6y ago
  Wow, thanks! That's some great work there, and easier to run than expected.
pabs3 6y ago
The software is just another Debian derivative, so anything that applies to Debian, probably applies to Purism PureOS and devices that are running it.

muyuu 6y ago

is there any up-to-date comparison between Librem, Jolla/Sailfish, PinePhone, (...)?

ncmncm 6y ago
Librem 5 is fatter and heavier, PinePhone is slimmer but with a smaller battery. You can buy, what, 3 PPs for the price of a Librem 5, with enough left over for 3 or 4 backup batteries, or one PP and dozens. I can't tell you what the Librem 5 is really like, because they haven't shipped mine yet, but the PP is very, very nice.
- memling 6y ago
  >I can't tell you what the Librem 5 is really like, because they haven't shipped mine yet, but the PP is very, very nice. I guess my question is: can you use the PinePhone (or Librem 5) as a phone? Can you reliably make and receive calls? Can you reliably send/receive SMS and MMS? Does it have error recovery if for some reason you don't get a message? Does the battery last for a reasonable day (>= 16 hours)? What networks are compatible, and do they work with MVNOs and not just the big boys? I've used SailfishOS in the past and enjoyed it—and would've continued using it, but my phone died and I bought a KaiOS burner and never updated. I've toyed with the idea of picking up a PinePhone because it's more within my budget; but I want my phone to, you know, be a phone—not (just) a miniature computer that fits in my pocket. I have a fairly high pain tolerance (Sailfish wasn't exactly polished the way I wanted), but if I can't make or receive calls or SMS/MMS, that's a serious problem whether I can run Blender on it or not.
  - blihp 6y ago
    Re: the Pinephone: 1) You can (mostly) reliably make and receive calls 2) SMS but no MMS. IIRC, if someone sends you an MMS it will jam up the SMS app (not sure if it is/was a modem firmware or app issue or if it's been resolved yet or not) 3) Error recovery... hahahaha. Umm, no. I still see a fair number of messages re: people needing to tweak the modem due to text messaging issues. 4) Battery life is far better than it was but not as good as it needs to be. If you use the phone moderately, it should make it through the day. Heavy usage can kill it in a couple of hours. 5) Other than possibly Verizon, I think it's been confirmed working on all the major carriers and MVNOs. I only single out Verizon because IIRC they have/had a policy of needing to whitelist devices so I'm not sure if there's an issue there or not. If you liked SailfishOS, there is some activity re: getting it running on the Pinephone: https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=126 https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=126 Basically you're asking if it's 'daily driver' ready. My opinion is not currently, but opinions vary on this point. That said, if you're a heavy Linux user with an interest in mobile you might want to pick one up... it really is a fantastic little portable Linux device.

reducesuffering 6y ago

For someone on the fence, how concerned should they be about app capabilities? So general phone use for things like social media and banking are going through the web apps in a browser. Many of these like Instagram and Reddit are intentionally handicapped outside of a native app.

orthecreedence 6y ago
I was looking into this earlier today. Apparently things like https://anbox.io/ https://anbox.io/ might provide a solution. I'm not sure how well they work in the absense of things like Google Play services, but that might be a solved problem with those apps being packaged for install by OSs like Lineage. I too would love an open source smartphone, but couldn't see myself fully jumping on board without at least some pathway to support existing apps (even if they take a few extra steps to use).
- sangnoir 6y ago
  Banking applications do "security" checks on lauch to check your phone for signs of rooting. I doubt very many banking apps will run in an emulator. To be clear, I am speculating.
  - orthecreedence 6y ago
    Yes, they might not like it, although I wonder if Anbox might have a non-rooted version that works just like non-rooted Android. Also, banking is one of those things where in 95% of the cases you probably don't need an app because they all have web portals (although, I know some banks don't let you deposit checks remotely without an app, so that is an issue).
- eznzt 6y ago
  Anbox sounds good, I wish there was a version for Windows.
PopeRigby 6y ago
There's a cool GTK app called Giara that works well on mobile Linux.

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago

I'm thinking about taking a sabbatical next year, 15 countries in 7 months. How well does Librem travel?

hackernewslol 6y ago
Ok, you can buy models for different regions and swap them, but the antenna cables are only rated for 10 duty cycles so you can't do it a bunch of times. Purism has said that the modem switch is more designed for if you move or if it breaks, not so you can travel between the US and Europe often or whatever. You can probably purchase extension cables or something rated for more cycled though, but that might be expensive/specialised.

brbsix 6y ago

Given their extensive history posting similar promotional material every time that they run out of cash, it would be wise to remain skeptical of this announcement. For the unacquainted, they've made outrageously false claims like this more times than I can count. I don't have the time or interest to outline all the lies but here's when it "began shipping" back in 9/2019.[0][1] As to the one person in the forums who claims to have received it, and the other on reddit who claims to have a tracking number, we've seen that before as well. [0]: http://archive.today/2019.09.06-222312/https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-shipping-announcement/ http://archive.today/2019.09.06-222312/https://puri.sm/posts... [1]: "The Librem 5 smartphone. Now Shipping" 9/25/2019 https://youtu.be/AuT2w6BkT-k https://youtu.be/AuT2w6BkT-k http://archive.today/S7lCT http://archive.today/S7lCT

MacsHeadroom 6y ago
They did ship and have been shipping batches. This is the mass production run, not the early adopter dev phones you can find on eBay.
- brbsix 6y ago
  You could address the substance of my comment by providing evidence. I'm trying to be polite about it, but the astroturfing is obvious.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    https://forums.puri.sm/t/received-my-librem-5-evergreen/10877 https://forums.puri.sm/t/received-my-librem-5-evergreen/1087... https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#87-why-has-the-time-to-release-the-librem-5-increased-from-17-to-39-months https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... (see also other questions there)
    - brbsix 6y ago
      The author of that forum post is unwilling to publish video of the device.

Valkhyr 6y ago

Looking forward to getting mine. While I don't see this replacing my Android as a daily-driver anytime soon (and possibly never), I am very excited to have an unrestricted computer in my pocket :-) Especially once the pandemic gets under control and I visit coffee shops or hang out with friends again, this will be great for some programming/study on the go :-) Maybe this will finally give me the kick to learn about GTK application development.

toyg 6y ago
> GTK application development Sigh, is this the only way to build apps for it? I hope not...
- fsflover 6y ago
  https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Apps/index.html
- roblabla 6y ago
  It's GNU/Linux, you can build apps however you want. The PureOS distro is based on Gnome so GTK is the blessed framework for app development. However, Qt works just as well, and is used a lot in KDE's Plasma Mobile. And if that doesn't suit you either, any other framework will work, with the caveat that they might not support mobile form factor natively.
  - toyg 6y ago
    Yeah, I was hoping Qt would be a first-class citizen. My previous experiences with GTK on mobile have been bad (little or no docs, unconsistent APIs, etc etc...). I had a look at their docs and I like the focus on Python, I'll probably give it a go. If I can get a decent result with PyQt I'll probably order one of these bad boys.
    - inawarminister 6y ago
      PinePhone with KDE Plasma Mobile is going to be sold in the next few weeks so you might be interested in that as well!

ashishb 6y ago

Why aren't HNers more excited about their laptop? I only see the the Liberem phone related posts on the front page every few months.

pengaru 6y ago
Their laptops are overpriced closed mediocrity with a not so great reputation when it comes to reliability. I'm still rocking used Intel ThinkPads, can run ME-cleaner and install coreboot myself, and rip out the internal wifi card in favor of a USB wifi dongle I can unplug for HW kill switch equivalence. They cost a few hundred bucks, support 16G RAM, and have epic keyboards+reliability. The mntmn reform 2 [0] looks like an OPEN laptop effort far more worth supporting than anything Purism does in this space IMHO. Purism doesn't produce anything remotely resembling open hardware AFAIK. [0] https://mntre.com/reform/ https://mntre.com/reform/
- seba_dos1 6y ago
  It's worth noting that the MNT Reform runs on the exact same SoC the Librem 5 does.
  - pengaru 6y ago
    It's also worth noting that the Reform utilizes a necessarily large heat sink in a spacious case, for that same SoC the Librem 5 shoehorns into a handset, despite not even having WWAN electronics heat to dissipate. Expect the Librem 5 performance to be heavily throttled for thermal reasons alone.
    - seba_dos1 6y ago
      Nah, I'm compiling plenty of stuff right on the phone (Librem 5 Dogwood) and it rarely hits the thermal throttling threshold. It has plenty of mass to dissipate that heat now (the whole metal plate behind the screen), earlier revisions had much worse thermals. This week I've played games on it for almost an hour attached to external 1080p screen and it was pretty warm in touch, but not hot at all; the CPU sensor showed 55°C and quickly cooled down when it went idle. Of course Reform is going to perform much better at sustained high loads, that's obvious, but Librem 5's thermals really aren't bad. If anything, its thermals have the opposite problem - the lower bound of its temperature is rather high (around 30°C) as it doesn't suspend. Regarding the upper bound, I really don't think about it at all during my regular usage.

Uhrheber 6y ago

Can I try PureOS, as it runs on the phone, in a simulator? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

AshOhms 6y ago
Last I tried, it was a bit tricky to set up but there are instructions for setting up an emulator here: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Boards/emulators.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Bo...

fsflover 6y ago

Community wiki with frequently asked questions about Librem 5: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....

cinntaile 6y ago

The article seems to be missing a picture of the actual phone.

fsflover 6y ago
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC64-PJ-yoF7aJ9pIHWEbrTQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC64-PJ-yoF7aJ9pIHWEbrTQ/vid...
- cinntaile 6y ago
  Thanks. I went looking for a picture though but I really think the article should include one. The importance of marketing and presentation can't be overstated for such a niche product.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    At the bottom of the first post: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p....
  - fsflover 6y ago
    https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-visual-walkthrough/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-visual-walkthrough/

samstave 6y ago

Please update the blog entry and your site - it took many clicks to get to specs and price - and you have two separate write-ups on specs, and price on only one page.

lifeformed 6y ago

How come the product page doesn't list the dimensions of them phone?

fsflover 6y ago
The dimensions have changed between the preliminary batches. The final ones are here: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#12-what-are-the-weight-and-dimensions-of-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....

zepto 6y ago

Why does this cost 10x the cost of the PinePhone? The specs are a little better, but not by that much.

hackernewslol 6y ago
They are developing all the software for the PinePhone and have to recoup somehow. Also it is supposedly a lot better built.
fsflover 6y ago
https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#39-why-did-purism-decide-to-create-the-new-phosh-interface https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...