13 ms·

PinePhone – KDE Community edition

253 points by ognarb 6y ago

reddotX 6y ago
great!
ognarb 6y ago
I'm one of the Plasma Mobile developer and I would be happy to answer questions.
- butz 6y ago
  Is there any integration with Plasma desktop, e.g. Calendar or Notes sync, or notifications display on desktop when phone is connected to PC?
- goffi 6y ago
  Great to see that, congratulations to everybody involved. Is the hardware of Pinephone considered stable? How is the development on such platform, the same a on Desktop GNU/Linux? Do we have a permission system similar to Android? Can we launch easily background application and awake the phone when needed (for notifications)? Is there a documentation on the packaging system? How long can the battery last at the moment (with mostly idle phone)? Thanks!
  - ognarb 6y ago
    > Is the hardware of PinePhone considered stable? There has been some hardware improvements between the braveheart edition and KDE Community edition. For example the convergence functionality was added. Afaik the Manjaro and KDE edition will be using the same hardware. > How is the development on such platform, the same a on Desktop GNU/Linux? Do we have a permission system similar to Android? Can we launch easily background application and awake the phone when needed (for notifications)? Is there a documentation on the packaging system? The development for Plasma Mobile is similar to the one on the desktop. You can ever develop completely on the desktop or ssh in the phone and compile there. Packaging system is the same as on the desktop and depends on the distro. Flatpak also works as cross distribution solution ;) KClock uses Powerdevil (the kde power management deamon) to wake up from sleep. There is also the KDED infrastructure: https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kded/html/index.html https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kded/html/index.html. > How long can the battery last at the moment (with mostly idle phone)? Good question. This varies a lot by the software used and the distributions. At the beginning it was less than 2 hours but with a lot of improvements in the kernel, there was reports varying from 12 to 16 hours idle time. This will probably improve further with more improvements in the kernel and in the hardware stack. I hope this answers all your questions.
    - goffi 6y ago
      > I hope this answers all your questions. yes thanks a lot! I'm considering getting this phone to port the XMPP client I'm working on on FOSS mobile OSes.
      - ognarb 6y ago
        Did you already checked Kaidan[1] out? It's an XMPP client specially build for Plasma Mobile. [1]: https://www.kaidan.im/ https://www.kaidan.im/
        goffi 6y ago
        yes I'm aware of it, I'm deeply involved in XMPP community (XSF member) and have met Kaidan devs a couple of times (it's a promising client BTW). My client (Salut à Toi) predates Kaidan by years and is not focusing only on instant messaging, also it's not the same technology stack and the mobile frontend uses Kivy, which is well adapted for touch screen.
- alexmcc81 6y ago
  Hi! Do the Plasma Mobile developers also provide a distro for the Phone? Is it KDE Neon (Ubuntu) based? What kind of collaboration is there between the various developers for the PinePhone? There seem to be a lot of Kernels with different patches for HW acceleration, IC power management, modem operation etc [1]. Do you apply these to your kernel? [1] https://xnux.eu/log/#020 https://xnux.eu/log/#020
  - SirLotsaLocks 6y ago
    Yes it's called Plasma Mobile
    - alexmcc81 6y ago
      Plasma Mobile is the desktop and related components (open to correction). There are apparently different distributions (based on Arch, Ubuntu and others [1]). My question is what the Plasma Mobile PinePhone ships with and if it maintained by the Plasma Mobile team themselves. The Plasma Mobile says that the Ubuntu Neon based one is "official" with confusing double quotes. The blog [2] says that image has been rebased on Ubuntu 20.04. Is this what the KDE PinePhone ships with? If so, what kernel does it use and are the patches I linked to previously included? [1] https://www.plasma-mobile.org/get/ https://www.plasma-mobile.org/get/ [2] https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2020/11/12/plasma-mobile-update-october.html https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2020/11/12/plasma-mobile-updat...
      - _underfl0w_ 6y ago
        I think you might be confusing the Linux distribution with the desktop environment. "Plasma" and "Plasma Mobile" are examples of the latter, while "Ubuntu" is the former. One can switch desktop environments with a Linux distribution to customize its look and feel - e.g. if I install Ubuntu on my PC, I can choose Plasma (KDE's offering), Gnome, or XFCE to be my desktop environment. OTOH, I could also choose to install Arch Linux - a different distribution - and still choose between those same options (or more, I only listed 3) for a desktop environment to customize it.
- jrepinc 6y ago
  Any such plan for KDE edition for Purism Librem 5?
  - ognarb 6y ago
    Some Plasma Mobile developers have receive a Librem 5 phone but afaik there is no KDE edition planed for the Librem 5 yet.
  - neilsimp1 6y ago
    No "Edition" but Plasma Mobile is supported on PureOS/Librem 5 and it's possible to switch to use that in place of Phosh should you want: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Boards/HowTo/Install_Plasma_Mobile.html#devkit-howto-install-plasma-mobile https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Bo... I am not sure how up to date Plasma Mobile is in these repos though. It's been a while since I tried it out.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  Any reason why Firefox is not prominently advertised instead of Angelfish?
  - diggan 6y ago
    One could guess it's because Plasma Angelfish want to be well integrated into the rest of the KDE ecosystem (works well with Plasma, has KDE wallet integration and all that jazz). I think Angelfish is based on webkit (via Qt) as well, for better or worse.
  - ognarb 6y ago
    Anglefish has been build specially for Plasma Mobile and use Kirigami (the framework powering most of the PlaMo apps) and QtWebEngine (based on Blink). Firefox sadly doesn't give us any ways to just use the web engine and do our own UI on top of it. It's a bit sad because Firefox is my preferred web browser on the desktop.
- oriesdan 6y ago
  Hi, thanks for taking questions. What is the state of the phone call/sms/mms support in Plasma Mobile on Pinephone? Also : will the CE edition be some sort of Neon mobile, or will it be based on PostmarketOS or something?
  - ognarb 6y ago
    Yes it works! SMS and MMS are supported via the application Spacebar. The application got a lot of improvement last months. https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2020/11/12/plasma-mobile-update-october.html https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2020/11/12/plasma-mobile-updat... Calls are also working fine. The only "exception" being one carrier in the USA does not seem to work with ofono (the underlying framework) yet, but that issue was also with the previous UBports edition.
    - Happpy 6y ago
      Is there auto call recording? Or on the roadmap.
      - johnchristopher 6y ago
        In Europe, at least in my home country, law mandates some kind of beeps or warnings when recording calls.
        _wolfie_ 6y ago
        Yes, and you, as an user would be breaking the law. But as far as I understand there is no law that would prevent phones from having this function.
    - oriesdan 6y ago
      That's awesome. Great job!
    - eckza 6y ago
      This is great news. Biggest question: Can I send SMS, on this phone, from another computer? The biggest reason I ditched my iPhone for Android was the excellent implementation of in-browser messaging, to and from my phone, on any computer with a web browser. I don't need to be able to text from "any computer with a web browser", but if I could send SMS from Win / Mac / Linux machines that I owned, that would be a huge incentive for me to give this platform a shot.
- vffhfhf 6y ago
  Why not develop on snapdragon 865 soc and 6-8 gb Ram? I bet it would run really better.
  - ognarb 6y ago
    Because it's quite hard to get more modern and powerful processors to work with a mainline Linux kernel and because of this, these processors are only working with Android.
  - happymellon 6y ago
    Because no one has released an open source phone with these specs?
- sto_hristo 6y ago
  How do you see this develop in the future, especially concerning the convergence aspect of it - the ability to hook it up to a monitor and use it as a real desktop computer. Please provide your own personal and unofficial opinion.
  - ognarb 6y ago
    The Pinephone supports convergence, but there is still a lot of work needed on the software side. The under-laying technology "Plasmashell" is able to run different view modes: the traditional desktop mode, the mobile mode and the smart tv mode (https://plasma-bigscreen.org/ https://plasma-bigscreen.org/). The missing link is the possibility to switch the view at runtime. Now while I think the feature is cool, I'm not sure how useful it is. I don't really see myself using it and would prefer in almost all the case using my thinkpad with a good processor and plenty of RAM. This might change with future versions of the Pinephone getting more powerful with the time. For the moment, I'm happy to have the convergence of the applications with Kirigami, so that I only need to develop them once and use a similar interface on both my phone and laptop. And having KDE Connect to share stuff between my phone and my laptop.
    - sto_hristo 6y ago
      Alright, thanks. For me the desktop capability of it is the most exciting thing. There are lots tasks i can do that don't require powerful cpu and lots of ram. I can even see myself developing in certain cases where i can just remote into a dedicated workstation - seeing what games mobile phones can run, it's not hard to imagine one can run a thing like vscode in client mode.
      - megous 6y ago
        Yes, it works quite fine. Even web browsing is not too horrible if you really need it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKNugT-mTQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKNugT-mTQ Enough for HN browsing, for sure. Even on a 1440p display.
  - megous 6y ago
- mrwoggle 6y ago
  > If you are interested in developing, you will be getting early access to an ambitious Free Software mobile platform and you can help contribute to Plasma Mobile and get a headway designing new apps that you can test and deploy right now. Any link to this? How do I make a simple hello world in Plasma Mobile :)
  - ognarb 6y ago
    We have a bit of documentation: * Plasma Mobile dev documentation: https://docs.plasma-mobile.org/ https://docs.plasma-mobile.org/ * General Kirigami documentation: https://develop.kde.org/docs/kirigami/ https://develop.kde.org/docs/kirigami/ * API documention of Kirigami: https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kirigami/html/ https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kirigami/html/ The documentation could be better, so if you have any trouble don't hesitate to ask questions in our Matrix channel: https://webchat.kde.org/#/room/#plasmamobile:kde.org https://webchat.kde.org/#/room/#plasmamobile:kde.org
- adamczi 6y ago
  Hi! What is the state of running regular Android apps on Plasma? I heard of Anbox, but does this actually work? I'm interested in running my bank's app on PinePhone.
  - 0rjf83 6y ago
    I can't speak for Anbox support on Pinephone, but regarding your bank's Android app it probably uses Google Safetynet, which I don't think Anbox has support for, or will ever support. Without Safetynet the app will probably not function, or will function with limited features.
  - _underfl0w_ 6y ago
    To add to my sibling comment's remark about SafetyNet, you miiiight be able to make something happen with Magisk or some other form of SafetyNet spoofing but that's a very deep rabbit hole. Also potentially a legal gray area. The sort of configuration that no dev of anything involved would be willing to support! Still, all hope might not be lost. YMMV.
    - TheCraiggers 6y ago
      Probably way easier to just fire up the web browser in that case.
  - jraph 6y ago
    Anbox "works" on the Pinephone, but takes ages to boot (several minutes), is really slow and eventually crashes the phone, in my experience (tried on Neon and Manjaro). I haven't managed to do anything useful with it. I wonder if we'll reach a point where Anbox runs okay on the Pinephone, it seems super heavy. Anbox emulates a complete Android system after all...
- sudhirkhanger 6y ago
  It would be great if Plasma Mobile would look into supporting JetPack Compose which has been ported to Linux Desktop by JetBrains. Even if I want to learn QML there is only so many things I could do in a day even if I want to. Plus JetPack Compose brings huge developer base to Plasma Mobile. https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/compose/ https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/compose/
  - ognarb 6y ago
    If it works on desktop linux and has an UI that adapts on small screens, there is an high chance that it already works on Plasma Mobile.
- kop316 6y ago
  No questions, I just wanted to say "thank you" for your work.
- mxuribe 6y ago
  Thanks so much for all your great work!!!
- flavor8 6y ago
  Is Plasma Mobile up to running on tablets now? I got an MS Surface Go 10 months ago and at the time Plasma Mobile didn't support auto screen rotation, so for now I'm running Gnome. (I'd like to switch.)
- shmerl 6y ago
  Is there any setup of Plasma Mobile that supports VoLTE?
- rfvrgvegbegn 6y ago
  Hi, thanks for your work on Plasma Mobile. Android has an Hardware Abstraction Layer (Android HAL) that acts as a unique central clean definition of what the hardware provides and how to access it. It makes it easier for Android to remain HW agnostic and for HW vendor to be compatible with Android. Is there a similar effort on Linux ?
  - ognarb 6y ago
    Plasma Mobile works fine on a mainline Linux kernel with a GNU userspace so there is no need to create an additional abstraction layer. There is a project called Halium that allowed in the early days to run plasma mobile on top of the Android userspace, but we stopped working on it when all the plasma developers got their Pinephone and this was easier to work with.
ilikeerp 6y ago
I will be getting this! I wish one day it would include a super high quality camera like Samsung then it would be perfect.
- ognarb 6y ago
  The camera will certainly getting better with the time. Martijn Braam, a postmarketOS dev is already doing a very good job improving the software side of the problem with his Megapixel application: https://blog.brixit.nl/pinephone-camera-pt4/ https://blog.brixit.nl/pinephone-camera-pt4/.
- leppr 6y ago
  For me it's the LCD screen versus an AMOLED that is a big blocker on mobile devices. But as I understand for now this will probably mostly be used by hackers and developers themselves, not as a daily driver for lambda users who are conscious about freedom and privacy yet, so the hardware choices make sense.
- flavor8 6y ago
  Definitely needs a better camera before I could consider it. A jump to 20MP, and then perhaps forking OpenCamera rather than developing one directly for Pine might be a good way forward. Does Pine have any recommendations for auto-cloud backup of photos, to replace Google Photos? (Photos is one of the killer apps for me - I could live without the cloud features, but the seamless cloud sync is a major feature.)
  - squeezingswirls 6y ago
    I haven't used plasma-mobile yet but in UBPorts you can sync your photos with your Nextcloud instance. Another option is Syncthing.
  - swebs 6y ago
    Operating systems for the Pinephone use the same software packages as desktop ARM Linux. So if it runs in the Raspberry Pi, it will run on your phone. Nextcloud is a nice option for seamless cloud sync.
danieldk 6y ago
I don't have enough background, but I recently read that some distributions could be a fire hazard due to the lack of proper temperature regulation: https://xnux.eu/log/#017 https://xnux.eu/log/#017 https://xnux.eu/log/#018 https://xnux.eu/log/#018 If this was the case, is that still a concern and which distributions/systems address this problem?
- josteink 6y ago
  I believe all those concerns were put to rest once the modularised design of the phone was taken into consideration. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24596248 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24596248
  - Causality1 6y ago
    Not at all. The specced hardware charge controller has no thermal circuitry and only disables the battery at a 6 amp current draw.
    - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
      I'm not a power electronics guy but can a charging circuit realistically be a fire hazard without an initial overcurrent? It seems like good redundancy to have thermal cut-off but theoretically a fire would have to be preceded by a massive overcurrent anyway, no?
      - Causality1 6y ago
        A chip can only detect current that's running through it or a sensor. A breached or shorted cell has a massive overcurrent between two parts of the cell and hence can only be detected by heat
        josteink 6y ago
        > A breached or shorted cell has a massive overcurrent between two parts of the cell and hence can only be detected by heat But that's not an error which can be caused by badly written software (i.e. like a Linux kernel). So there's theoreticly no increased risk with running different "home-brew" OS builds on this phone due to software-related aspects of those builds.
Glavnokoman 6y ago
Good news. But I'd love to see something in a smaller form-factor.
- radec 6y ago
  I agree. This project is fantastic. The only reason I haven't bought a pinephone is because the size. I hope the PineCom idea ends up being a size I can see carrying around.
- mackrevinack 6y ago
  something like the size of the xz1 compact would be ideal for me
Alir3z4 6y ago
Making this is a huge win for freedom, open source and keeping our digital life more secure. This will be my next phone!
joseluisq 6y ago
Definitely my next phone! Congrats!
jraph 6y ago
I just received a Pinephone Manjaro Comunity edition. 10€ is given to the project edition. Had I known KDE was next, I would have waited a bit! I already use Plasma on my laptop, it is a great desktop environment. I replaced Manjaro by Mobian, it works way better for me. KDE Neon did not work too well, unfortunately (it could not turn off the phone screen, and it didn't work correctly with an external screen), but I have hope. I'd especially like to install Plasma Mobile on Mobian, I really trust Debian's stability and trust KDE better than Gnome on getting UX just right and be more lightweight too. Phosh is good, but they apparently have decided to remove auto rotation (which I need!), having to tap on the status bar instead of swiping is a bit strange, having to click on a X to close apps instead of swiping vertically is a bit strange too and by the way closing apps is unreliable. They prevent windows from being moved with fingers, which is fine if apps are entirely designed for mobile but this gets really annoying as soon as the world is not perfect, which it is far from being. I have the same feeling with Phosh as with Gnome, that things look beautiful and attention was paid on the appearance, but Plasma overall felt more intuitive and lightweight. I might contribute to the project at some point. Congratulations on being the next Pinephone's Community Edition!
- jonathonf 6y ago
  > 10€ is given to the project edition. Do you know where this payment goes to? e.g. is it to their OpenCollective or LFX donation accounts?
  - jraph 6y ago
    I have no idea, sorry.
- TheCraiggers 6y ago
  Pine64 has mentioned that they plan on selling the backplates individually with the proceeds going to the respective projects. So hopefully you'll still be able to do so.
- nyanpasu64 6y ago
  I tried Neon briefly on my PinePhone. Plasma Mobile is QML-based, and is less polished/working than Plasma Desktop. Performance is no better than Mobian. I don't think you get draggable title bars on Plasma Mobile either.
butz 6y ago
Probably something to be on a lookout for future releases: it would be better for a regular user if all core applications were named by their function, e.g. Megapixels -> Camera, Kalidori -> Calendar, Angelfish -> Web Browser, etc.
- opan 6y ago
  The package names and process names won't change, so this just hides important info. Your browser hangs, you go into htop, you realize you're not sure what it's called. Same with installing them or uninstalling them. I do not think this is an area where you should dumb things down.
  - MawKKe 6y ago
    This thing is exactly what has been really infuriating on recent ubuntu releases. When a program misbehaves, I have no idea what the actual process is called
mlamat 6y ago
I just installed KDE Plasma on Ubuntu as an experiment. The tab won't close in the Konqueror browser if you click on X. KDE is not serious.
tluyben2 6y ago
I got my pinephone (Manjaro) last week and tried all OSs there are for it; I really love the idea of having a real Linux device in my pocket (that's why I have the Pandora, Pyra + GPD pocket 1 as well); it is such a difference having full control and being able to change whatever how you work instead of having large corps decide. Also shows, by the 'missing apps' between ecosystems, how much we need replacements for all the proprietary social sites, chat, collaboration etc. However there is a lot that needs to be done software wise, which made me think that if I want to have a solid Linux device that really fits in my pocket like a phone with actual speech and 4g(5g?) then a lot more people will need to help with this. I don't know how that will happen, but, like I did with the Pandora, with this device I will try to work with the community in reporting and fixing bugs. For now, this is a device for people who like freedom of their device (well, at least as much as we can get with modern circuits) and who like to tinker. I would recommend it to those people who envision an open source phone in their future; we need to help + stimulate the people trying. Edit: it is trivial to try all OSs, so whatever you buy, you can switch rather rapidly and take them all for a spin.
- izacus 6y ago
  I wonder if making a shell on top of Android (for compatiblity with other devices) would make community larger and get more software contributions. Not sure how technically feasible it is though.
  - slothtrop 6y ago
    Maybe, though in the worst case there's Anbox emulation.
  - mook 6y ago
    Wasn't FirefoxOS (the defunct phone one, now there's the KaiOS fork) sort of like that? I believe Gonk took some parts from Android, but haven't dug into it. Given that example, not sure how feasible the app ecosystem is.
    - josteink 6y ago
lifeisstillgood 6y ago
Any recommendations as to the best way to support this / other Foss phones ? This obviously includes how to get a phone but i assume there is other ways?
- ognarb 6y ago
  A lot of ways :D * Donate: https://kde.org/community/donations/ https://kde.org/community/donations/ * Develop new mobile Linux applications or port existing Linux desktop application to mobile devices * Help us write our monthly blog: https://www.plasma-mobile.org/blog/ https://www.plasma-mobile.org/blog/. We are quite bad at getting a new blog post at least once a month. * Design mock-ups * Translate the applications to your native language
danielEM 6y ago
Love the idea of that phone! And would love it even more if: - it had 3 USB-C ports - out of which 2 were USB 3.1 standard with alternate mode HDMI capable of FullHD resolution - it had processor that achieves in geekbench 5 somewhere between 1.5k - 2k points multicore at least I know, I know - need to wake up ;-)
- swebs 6y ago
  Well there is a Convergence Edition which allows you to output over HDMI.
  - megous 6y ago
    Both 2GiB/3BiB RAM editions allow you to output over HDMI.
shmerl 6y ago
It would be nice to have an option to hide those navigation buttons, and replace them with gestures, like SailfishOS does.
simlan 6y ago
If i click through i can't order it though ? The web shop only has the manjaro version. Am I missing something?
- simlan 6y ago
  Turns out my browsers mangle the landing page of the pine64 site. Pre-order opens December. Just Fyi for anyone else that wondered what avail immediately means.
sam0x17 6y ago
Will this work on the "brave heart" beta edition that came out last year?
gonational 6y ago
For anyone who uses Apple Pay: I had trouble at the pine64.com website using Apple Pay (kept getting “invalid shipping address“), but when I checked out via their normal CC checkout it worked fine.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
I would happily pay an extra $100-$200 for them to get a better processor, wifi, and bluetooth in there if it were possible. All the performance of everything running just looks so slow. I really do want to support these things, but even opening up a text editor took seconds on videos I've seen.
- slothtrop 6y ago
  Better optimization will help, Librem 5 has better hardware but has (to a lesser extent) similar issues far as I know.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Unfortunately it's a bit more than $200 extra, but: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/.
- megous 6y ago
  SD card interface vs eMMC makes a difference in startup speed. eMMC is basically 4x as fast. Though I think many GNU/Linux desktop apps are not well optimized for startup speed. And it shows on slower HW.
intricatedetail 6y ago
Does pine phone record calls? Seems like most new phones have this disabled and I am looking for a phone that can record calls.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Nothing prevents you or someone else to write such application.
- megous 6y ago
  The HW allows any combination of recording, playback - to/from modem and to/from speaker/mic at the same time. It's possible to implement a lot of interesting features that way, like DTMF menu system on incoming calls, with or without monitoring of the other side, etc. I have it documented here: https://xnux.eu/devices/feature/audio-pp.html https://xnux.eu/devices/feature/audio-pp.html So it's certainly possible.
  - intricatedetail 6y ago
    Sweet!
ronilav 6y ago
It's clear that closed source device makers will never want to prove that there are no HW backdoor, or even monitoring chip in their products, but for a device like this one, is there a will to provide such guarantee?
- fsflover 6y ago
  If you want hard proofs consider Precursor: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor.
mosselman 6y ago
How about offline Netflix? Spotify?
- stonogo 6y ago
  It's going to be up to Netflix to release an app for this platform.
d_theorist 6y ago
Anybody know, or have a decent guess at, the price?
- fuzxi 6y ago
  $150. $200 for Convergence Edition that uses an upgraded board with more RAM and eMMC, plus some accessory goodies. This link [1] is for the Manjaro edition, but all of the community editions have been priced the same. [1]: https://pine64.com/product-category/pinephone/?v=0446c16e2e66 https://pine64.com/product-category/pinephone/?v=0446c16e2e6...
shermanmccoy 6y ago
Two simple questions. How long does the battery last, while largely sitting on my desk not being used? Can it make and receive calls and texts?

253 points by ognarb 6y ago

reddotX 6y ago

great!

ognarb 6y ago

I'm one of the Plasma Mobile developer and I would be happy to answer questions.

butz 6y ago
Is there any integration with Plasma desktop, e.g. Calendar or Notes sync, or notifications display on desktop when phone is connected to PC?
goffi 6y ago
Great to see that, congratulations to everybody involved. Is the hardware of Pinephone considered stable? How is the development on such platform, the same a on Desktop GNU/Linux? Do we have a permission system similar to Android? Can we launch easily background application and awake the phone when needed (for notifications)? Is there a documentation on the packaging system? How long can the battery last at the moment (with mostly idle phone)? Thanks!
- ognarb 6y ago
  > Is the hardware of PinePhone considered stable? There has been some hardware improvements between the braveheart edition and KDE Community edition. For example the convergence functionality was added. Afaik the Manjaro and KDE edition will be using the same hardware. > How is the development on such platform, the same a on Desktop GNU/Linux? Do we have a permission system similar to Android? Can we launch easily background application and awake the phone when needed (for notifications)? Is there a documentation on the packaging system? The development for Plasma Mobile is similar to the one on the desktop. You can ever develop completely on the desktop or ssh in the phone and compile there. Packaging system is the same as on the desktop and depends on the distro. Flatpak also works as cross distribution solution ;) KClock uses Powerdevil (the kde power management deamon) to wake up from sleep. There is also the KDED infrastructure: https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kded/html/index.html https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kded/html/index.html. > How long can the battery last at the moment (with mostly idle phone)? Good question. This varies a lot by the software used and the distributions. At the beginning it was less than 2 hours but with a lot of improvements in the kernel, there was reports varying from 12 to 16 hours idle time. This will probably improve further with more improvements in the kernel and in the hardware stack. I hope this answers all your questions.
  - goffi 6y ago
    > I hope this answers all your questions. yes thanks a lot! I'm considering getting this phone to port the XMPP client I'm working on on FOSS mobile OSes.
    - ognarb 6y ago
      Did you already checked Kaidan[1] out? It's an XMPP client specially build for Plasma Mobile. [1]: https://www.kaidan.im/ https://www.kaidan.im/
      - goffi 6y ago
        yes I'm aware of it, I'm deeply involved in XMPP community (XSF member) and have met Kaidan devs a couple of times (it's a promising client BTW). My client (Salut à Toi) predates Kaidan by years and is not focusing only on instant messaging, also it's not the same technology stack and the mobile frontend uses Kivy, which is well adapted for touch screen.
alexmcc81 6y ago
Hi! Do the Plasma Mobile developers also provide a distro for the Phone? Is it KDE Neon (Ubuntu) based? What kind of collaboration is there between the various developers for the PinePhone? There seem to be a lot of Kernels with different patches for HW acceleration, IC power management, modem operation etc [1]. Do you apply these to your kernel? [1] https://xnux.eu/log/#020 https://xnux.eu/log/#020
- SirLotsaLocks 6y ago
  Yes it's called Plasma Mobile
  - alexmcc81 6y ago
    Plasma Mobile is the desktop and related components (open to correction). There are apparently different distributions (based on Arch, Ubuntu and others [1]). My question is what the Plasma Mobile PinePhone ships with and if it maintained by the Plasma Mobile team themselves. The Plasma Mobile says that the Ubuntu Neon based one is "official" with confusing double quotes. The blog [2] says that image has been rebased on Ubuntu 20.04. Is this what the KDE PinePhone ships with? If so, what kernel does it use and are the patches I linked to previously included? [1] https://www.plasma-mobile.org/get/ https://www.plasma-mobile.org/get/ [2] https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2020/11/12/plasma-mobile-update-october.html https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2020/11/12/plasma-mobile-updat...
    - _underfl0w_ 6y ago
      I think you might be confusing the Linux distribution with the desktop environment. "Plasma" and "Plasma Mobile" are examples of the latter, while "Ubuntu" is the former. One can switch desktop environments with a Linux distribution to customize its look and feel - e.g. if I install Ubuntu on my PC, I can choose Plasma (KDE's offering), Gnome, or XFCE to be my desktop environment. OTOH, I could also choose to install Arch Linux - a different distribution - and still choose between those same options (or more, I only listed 3) for a desktop environment to customize it.
jrepinc 6y ago
Any such plan for KDE edition for Purism Librem 5?
- ognarb 6y ago
  Some Plasma Mobile developers have receive a Librem 5 phone but afaik there is no KDE edition planed for the Librem 5 yet.
- neilsimp1 6y ago
  No "Edition" but Plasma Mobile is supported on PureOS/Librem 5 and it's possible to switch to use that in place of Phosh should you want: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Boards/HowTo/Install_Plasma_Mobile.html#devkit-howto-install-plasma-mobile https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Bo... I am not sure how up to date Plasma Mobile is in these repos though. It's been a while since I tried it out.
ekianjo 6y ago
Any reason why Firefox is not prominently advertised instead of Angelfish?
- diggan 6y ago
  One could guess it's because Plasma Angelfish want to be well integrated into the rest of the KDE ecosystem (works well with Plasma, has KDE wallet integration and all that jazz). I think Angelfish is based on webkit (via Qt) as well, for better or worse.
- ognarb 6y ago
  Anglefish has been build specially for Plasma Mobile and use Kirigami (the framework powering most of the PlaMo apps) and QtWebEngine (based on Blink). Firefox sadly doesn't give us any ways to just use the web engine and do our own UI on top of it. It's a bit sad because Firefox is my preferred web browser on the desktop.
oriesdan 6y ago
Hi, thanks for taking questions. What is the state of the phone call/sms/mms support in Plasma Mobile on Pinephone? Also : will the CE edition be some sort of Neon mobile, or will it be based on PostmarketOS or something?
- ognarb 6y ago
  Yes it works! SMS and MMS are supported via the application Spacebar. The application got a lot of improvement last months. https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2020/11/12/plasma-mobile-update-october.html https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2020/11/12/plasma-mobile-updat... Calls are also working fine. The only "exception" being one carrier in the USA does not seem to work with ofono (the underlying framework) yet, but that issue was also with the previous UBports edition.
  - Happpy 6y ago
    Is there auto call recording? Or on the roadmap.
    - johnchristopher 6y ago
      In Europe, at least in my home country, law mandates some kind of beeps or warnings when recording calls.
      - _wolfie_ 6y ago
        Yes, and you, as an user would be breaking the law. But as far as I understand there is no law that would prevent phones from having this function.
  - oriesdan 6y ago
    That's awesome. Great job!
  - eckza 6y ago
    This is great news. Biggest question: Can I send SMS, on this phone, from another computer? The biggest reason I ditched my iPhone for Android was the excellent implementation of in-browser messaging, to and from my phone, on any computer with a web browser. I don't need to be able to text from "any computer with a web browser", but if I could send SMS from Win / Mac / Linux machines that I owned, that would be a huge incentive for me to give this platform a shot.
vffhfhf 6y ago
Why not develop on snapdragon 865 soc and 6-8 gb Ram? I bet it would run really better.
- ognarb 6y ago
  Because it's quite hard to get more modern and powerful processors to work with a mainline Linux kernel and because of this, these processors are only working with Android.
- happymellon 6y ago
  Because no one has released an open source phone with these specs?
sto_hristo 6y ago
How do you see this develop in the future, especially concerning the convergence aspect of it - the ability to hook it up to a monitor and use it as a real desktop computer. Please provide your own personal and unofficial opinion.
- ognarb 6y ago
  The Pinephone supports convergence, but there is still a lot of work needed on the software side. The under-laying technology "Plasmashell" is able to run different view modes: the traditional desktop mode, the mobile mode and the smart tv mode (https://plasma-bigscreen.org/ https://plasma-bigscreen.org/). The missing link is the possibility to switch the view at runtime. Now while I think the feature is cool, I'm not sure how useful it is. I don't really see myself using it and would prefer in almost all the case using my thinkpad with a good processor and plenty of RAM. This might change with future versions of the Pinephone getting more powerful with the time. For the moment, I'm happy to have the convergence of the applications with Kirigami, so that I only need to develop them once and use a similar interface on both my phone and laptop. And having KDE Connect to share stuff between my phone and my laptop.
  - sto_hristo 6y ago
    Alright, thanks. For me the desktop capability of it is the most exciting thing. There are lots tasks i can do that don't require powerful cpu and lots of ram. I can even see myself developing in certain cases where i can just remote into a dedicated workstation - seeing what games mobile phones can run, it's not hard to imagine one can run a thing like vscode in client mode.
    - megous 6y ago
      Yes, it works quite fine. Even web browsing is not too horrible if you really need it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKNugT-mTQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKNugT-mTQ Enough for HN browsing, for sure. Even on a 1440p display.
- megous 6y ago
mrwoggle 6y ago
> If you are interested in developing, you will be getting early access to an ambitious Free Software mobile platform and you can help contribute to Plasma Mobile and get a headway designing new apps that you can test and deploy right now. Any link to this? How do I make a simple hello world in Plasma Mobile :)
- ognarb 6y ago
  We have a bit of documentation: * Plasma Mobile dev documentation: https://docs.plasma-mobile.org/ https://docs.plasma-mobile.org/ * General Kirigami documentation: https://develop.kde.org/docs/kirigami/ https://develop.kde.org/docs/kirigami/ * API documention of Kirigami: https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kirigami/html/ https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kirigami/html/ The documentation could be better, so if you have any trouble don't hesitate to ask questions in our Matrix channel: https://webchat.kde.org/#/room/#plasmamobile:kde.org https://webchat.kde.org/#/room/#plasmamobile:kde.org
adamczi 6y ago
Hi! What is the state of running regular Android apps on Plasma? I heard of Anbox, but does this actually work? I'm interested in running my bank's app on PinePhone.
- 0rjf83 6y ago
  I can't speak for Anbox support on Pinephone, but regarding your bank's Android app it probably uses Google Safetynet, which I don't think Anbox has support for, or will ever support. Without Safetynet the app will probably not function, or will function with limited features.
- _underfl0w_ 6y ago
  To add to my sibling comment's remark about SafetyNet, you miiiight be able to make something happen with Magisk or some other form of SafetyNet spoofing but that's a very deep rabbit hole. Also potentially a legal gray area. The sort of configuration that no dev of anything involved would be willing to support! Still, all hope might not be lost. YMMV.
  - TheCraiggers 6y ago
    Probably way easier to just fire up the web browser in that case.
- jraph 6y ago
  Anbox "works" on the Pinephone, but takes ages to boot (several minutes), is really slow and eventually crashes the phone, in my experience (tried on Neon and Manjaro). I haven't managed to do anything useful with it. I wonder if we'll reach a point where Anbox runs okay on the Pinephone, it seems super heavy. Anbox emulates a complete Android system after all...
sudhirkhanger 6y ago
It would be great if Plasma Mobile would look into supporting JetPack Compose which has been ported to Linux Desktop by JetBrains. Even if I want to learn QML there is only so many things I could do in a day even if I want to. Plus JetPack Compose brings huge developer base to Plasma Mobile. https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/compose/ https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/compose/
- ognarb 6y ago
  If it works on desktop linux and has an UI that adapts on small screens, there is an high chance that it already works on Plasma Mobile.
kop316 6y ago
No questions, I just wanted to say "thank you" for your work.
mxuribe 6y ago
Thanks so much for all your great work!!!
flavor8 6y ago
Is Plasma Mobile up to running on tablets now? I got an MS Surface Go 10 months ago and at the time Plasma Mobile didn't support auto screen rotation, so for now I'm running Gnome. (I'd like to switch.)
shmerl 6y ago
Is there any setup of Plasma Mobile that supports VoLTE?
rfvrgvegbegn 6y ago
Hi, thanks for your work on Plasma Mobile. Android has an Hardware Abstraction Layer (Android HAL) that acts as a unique central clean definition of what the hardware provides and how to access it. It makes it easier for Android to remain HW agnostic and for HW vendor to be compatible with Android. Is there a similar effort on Linux ?
- ognarb 6y ago
  Plasma Mobile works fine on a mainline Linux kernel with a GNU userspace so there is no need to create an additional abstraction layer. There is a project called Halium that allowed in the early days to run plasma mobile on top of the Android userspace, but we stopped working on it when all the plasma developers got their Pinephone and this was easier to work with.

ilikeerp 6y ago

I will be getting this! I wish one day it would include a super high quality camera like Samsung then it would be perfect.

ognarb 6y ago
The camera will certainly getting better with the time. Martijn Braam, a postmarketOS dev is already doing a very good job improving the software side of the problem with his Megapixel application: https://blog.brixit.nl/pinephone-camera-pt4/ https://blog.brixit.nl/pinephone-camera-pt4/.
leppr 6y ago
For me it's the LCD screen versus an AMOLED that is a big blocker on mobile devices. But as I understand for now this will probably mostly be used by hackers and developers themselves, not as a daily driver for lambda users who are conscious about freedom and privacy yet, so the hardware choices make sense.
flavor8 6y ago
Definitely needs a better camera before I could consider it. A jump to 20MP, and then perhaps forking OpenCamera rather than developing one directly for Pine might be a good way forward. Does Pine have any recommendations for auto-cloud backup of photos, to replace Google Photos? (Photos is one of the killer apps for me - I could live without the cloud features, but the seamless cloud sync is a major feature.)
- squeezingswirls 6y ago
  I haven't used plasma-mobile yet but in UBPorts you can sync your photos with your Nextcloud instance. Another option is Syncthing.
- swebs 6y ago
  Operating systems for the Pinephone use the same software packages as desktop ARM Linux. So if it runs in the Raspberry Pi, it will run on your phone. Nextcloud is a nice option for seamless cloud sync.

danieldk 6y ago

I don't have enough background, but I recently read that some distributions could be a fire hazard due to the lack of proper temperature regulation: https://xnux.eu/log/#017 https://xnux.eu/log/#017 https://xnux.eu/log/#018 https://xnux.eu/log/#018 If this was the case, is that still a concern and which distributions/systems address this problem?

josteink 6y ago
I believe all those concerns were put to rest once the modularised design of the phone was taken into consideration. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24596248 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24596248
- Causality1 6y ago
  Not at all. The specced hardware charge controller has no thermal circuitry and only disables the battery at a 6 amp current draw.
  - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
    I'm not a power electronics guy but can a charging circuit realistically be a fire hazard without an initial overcurrent? It seems like good redundancy to have thermal cut-off but theoretically a fire would have to be preceded by a massive overcurrent anyway, no?
    - Causality1 6y ago
      A chip can only detect current that's running through it or a sensor. A breached or shorted cell has a massive overcurrent between two parts of the cell and hence can only be detected by heat
      - josteink 6y ago
        > A breached or shorted cell has a massive overcurrent between two parts of the cell and hence can only be detected by heat But that's not an error which can be caused by badly written software (i.e. like a Linux kernel). So there's theoreticly no increased risk with running different "home-brew" OS builds on this phone due to software-related aspects of those builds.

Glavnokoman 6y ago

Good news. But I'd love to see something in a smaller form-factor.

radec 6y ago
I agree. This project is fantastic. The only reason I haven't bought a pinephone is because the size. I hope the PineCom idea ends up being a size I can see carrying around.
mackrevinack 6y ago
something like the size of the xz1 compact would be ideal for me

Alir3z4 6y ago

Making this is a huge win for freedom, open source and keeping our digital life more secure. This will be my next phone!

joseluisq 6y ago

Definitely my next phone! Congrats!

jraph 6y ago

I just received a Pinephone Manjaro Comunity edition. 10€ is given to the project edition. Had I known KDE was next, I would have waited a bit! I already use Plasma on my laptop, it is a great desktop environment. I replaced Manjaro by Mobian, it works way better for me. KDE Neon did not work too well, unfortunately (it could not turn off the phone screen, and it didn't work correctly with an external screen), but I have hope. I'd especially like to install Plasma Mobile on Mobian, I really trust Debian's stability and trust KDE better than Gnome on getting UX just right and be more lightweight too. Phosh is good, but they apparently have decided to remove auto rotation (which I need!), having to tap on the status bar instead of swiping is a bit strange, having to click on a X to close apps instead of swiping vertically is a bit strange too and by the way closing apps is unreliable. They prevent windows from being moved with fingers, which is fine if apps are entirely designed for mobile but this gets really annoying as soon as the world is not perfect, which it is far from being. I have the same feeling with Phosh as with Gnome, that things look beautiful and attention was paid on the appearance, but Plasma overall felt more intuitive and lightweight. I might contribute to the project at some point. Congratulations on being the next Pinephone's Community Edition!

jonathonf 6y ago
> 10€ is given to the project edition. Do you know where this payment goes to? e.g. is it to their OpenCollective or LFX donation accounts?
- jraph 6y ago
  I have no idea, sorry.
TheCraiggers 6y ago
Pine64 has mentioned that they plan on selling the backplates individually with the proceeds going to the respective projects. So hopefully you'll still be able to do so.
nyanpasu64 6y ago
I tried Neon briefly on my PinePhone. Plasma Mobile is QML-based, and is less polished/working than Plasma Desktop. Performance is no better than Mobian. I don't think you get draggable title bars on Plasma Mobile either.

butz 6y ago

Probably something to be on a lookout for future releases: it would be better for a regular user if all core applications were named by their function, e.g. Megapixels -> Camera, Kalidori -> Calendar, Angelfish -> Web Browser, etc.

opan 6y ago
The package names and process names won't change, so this just hides important info. Your browser hangs, you go into htop, you realize you're not sure what it's called. Same with installing them or uninstalling them. I do not think this is an area where you should dumb things down.
- MawKKe 6y ago
  This thing is exactly what has been really infuriating on recent ubuntu releases. When a program misbehaves, I have no idea what the actual process is called

mlamat 6y ago

I just installed KDE Plasma on Ubuntu as an experiment. The tab won't close in the Konqueror browser if you click on X. KDE is not serious.

tluyben2 6y ago

I got my pinephone (Manjaro) last week and tried all OSs there are for it; I really love the idea of having a real Linux device in my pocket (that's why I have the Pandora, Pyra + GPD pocket 1 as well); it is such a difference having full control and being able to change whatever how you work instead of having large corps decide. Also shows, by the 'missing apps' between ecosystems, how much we need replacements for all the proprietary social sites, chat, collaboration etc. However there is a lot that needs to be done software wise, which made me think that if I want to have a solid Linux device that really fits in my pocket like a phone with actual speech and 4g(5g?) then a lot more people will need to help with this. I don't know how that will happen, but, like I did with the Pandora, with this device I will try to work with the community in reporting and fixing bugs. For now, this is a device for people who like freedom of their device (well, at least as much as we can get with modern circuits) and who like to tinker. I would recommend it to those people who envision an open source phone in their future; we need to help + stimulate the people trying. Edit: it is trivial to try all OSs, so whatever you buy, you can switch rather rapidly and take them all for a spin.

izacus 6y ago
I wonder if making a shell on top of Android (for compatiblity with other devices) would make community larger and get more software contributions. Not sure how technically feasible it is though.
- slothtrop 6y ago
  Maybe, though in the worst case there's Anbox emulation.
- mook 6y ago
  Wasn't FirefoxOS (the defunct phone one, now there's the KaiOS fork) sort of like that? I believe Gonk took some parts from Android, but haven't dug into it. Given that example, not sure how feasible the app ecosystem is.
  - josteink 6y ago

lifeisstillgood 6y ago

Any recommendations as to the best way to support this / other Foss phones ? This obviously includes how to get a phone but i assume there is other ways?

ognarb 6y ago
A lot of ways :D * Donate: https://kde.org/community/donations/ https://kde.org/community/donations/ * Develop new mobile Linux applications or port existing Linux desktop application to mobile devices * Help us write our monthly blog: https://www.plasma-mobile.org/blog/ https://www.plasma-mobile.org/blog/. We are quite bad at getting a new blog post at least once a month. * Design mock-ups * Translate the applications to your native language

danielEM 6y ago

Love the idea of that phone! And would love it even more if: - it had 3 USB-C ports - out of which 2 were USB 3.1 standard with alternate mode HDMI capable of FullHD resolution - it had processor that achieves in geekbench 5 somewhere between 1.5k - 2k points multicore at least I know, I know - need to wake up ;-)

swebs 6y ago
Well there is a Convergence Edition which allows you to output over HDMI.
- megous 6y ago
  Both 2GiB/3BiB RAM editions allow you to output over HDMI.

shmerl 6y ago

It would be nice to have an option to hide those navigation buttons, and replace them with gestures, like SailfishOS does.

simlan 6y ago

If i click through i can't order it though ? The web shop only has the manjaro version. Am I missing something?

simlan 6y ago
Turns out my browsers mangle the landing page of the pine64 site. Pre-order opens December. Just Fyi for anyone else that wondered what avail immediately means.

sam0x17 6y ago

Will this work on the "brave heart" beta edition that came out last year?

gonational 6y ago

For anyone who uses Apple Pay: I had trouble at the pine64.com website using Apple Pay (kept getting “invalid shipping address“), but when I checked out via their normal CC checkout it worked fine.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

I would happily pay an extra $100-$200 for them to get a better processor, wifi, and bluetooth in there if it were possible. All the performance of everything running just looks so slow. I really do want to support these things, but even opening up a text editor took seconds on videos I've seen.

slothtrop 6y ago
Better optimization will help, Librem 5 has better hardware but has (to a lesser extent) similar issues far as I know.
fsflover 6y ago
Unfortunately it's a bit more than $200 extra, but: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/.
megous 6y ago
SD card interface vs eMMC makes a difference in startup speed. eMMC is basically 4x as fast. Though I think many GNU/Linux desktop apps are not well optimized for startup speed. And it shows on slower HW.

intricatedetail 6y ago

Does pine phone record calls? Seems like most new phones have this disabled and I am looking for a phone that can record calls.

fsflover 6y ago
Nothing prevents you or someone else to write such application.
megous 6y ago
The HW allows any combination of recording, playback - to/from modem and to/from speaker/mic at the same time. It's possible to implement a lot of interesting features that way, like DTMF menu system on incoming calls, with or without monitoring of the other side, etc. I have it documented here: https://xnux.eu/devices/feature/audio-pp.html https://xnux.eu/devices/feature/audio-pp.html So it's certainly possible.
- intricatedetail 6y ago
  Sweet!

ronilav 6y ago

It's clear that closed source device makers will never want to prove that there are no HW backdoor, or even monitoring chip in their products, but for a device like this one, is there a will to provide such guarantee?

fsflover 6y ago
If you want hard proofs consider Precursor: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor.

mosselman 6y ago

How about offline Netflix? Spotify?

stonogo 6y ago
It's going to be up to Netflix to release an app for this platform.

d_theorist 6y ago

Anybody know, or have a decent guess at, the price?

fuzxi 6y ago
$150. $200 for Convergence Edition that uses an upgraded board with more RAM and eMMC, plus some accessory goodies. This link [1] is for the Manjaro edition, but all of the community editions have been priced the same. [1]: https://pine64.com/product-category/pinephone/?v=0446c16e2e66 https://pine64.com/product-category/pinephone/?v=0446c16e2e6...

shermanmccoy 6y ago

Two simple questions. How long does the battery last, while largely sitting on my desk not being used? Can it make and receive calls and texts?