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The future of microwave cooking is solid-state (2016)
- 14 6y agoI once about 23 years ago was invited over a girlfriends mom for a roast beef dinner. I watched her put the roast in a microwave and blast it. I was in shock but didn’t say anything. She used the oven and did up some Yorkshire puddings quickly and already had some mashed potatoes. Next thing I know dinner is done. I was certain leather was being served. But to my utter surprise the roast was cooked perfectly medium rare and was to this day the second best piece of meat I have tasted. I don’t have the guts to take a $23 piece of meat and risk trying it myself.
- ethbr0 6y agoI think it's easy to fall into habits with appliances, whereby we artificially limit our use cases to safe / common ones. I found an Oster blender recipe book from the early 60s with recipes for all kinds of food prep... in a blender. Baking mixes, egg dishes, etc. Sure, part of it was marketing, but it made me realize how much familiarity circumscribes imagination.
- m463 6y agoI've been bored and messed around with non-standard microwave uses. - spaghetti (hard to balance boilover) - egg mcmuffin: bagel in toaster, egg in microwave using nordicware egg-n-muffin I'll bet there are other easy + tasty ones
- dmmalam 6y agohttp://www.gojifoodsolutions.com/rf-cooking-technology http://www.gojifoodsolutions.com/rf-cooking-technology
- jjoonathan 6y agoAre these easier than magnetrons to I/Q modulate for the ultimate wifi experience?
- madengr 6y agoYes and no. The solid state amps will be run in high efficiency modes, making amplitude modulation problematic, so it would not work for modern WiFi modulations. You’d get away with it for QPSK but the spectral regrowth into adjacent channels would be horrendous.
- josephpmay 6y agoThis should have [2016] on it
- metonymy 6y agoAppears to have stalled. The group behind it hasn't updated their site since 2017: http://rfenergy.org/press-room/ http://rfenergy.org/press-room/
- tpmx 6y agoEverything related to Microwave ovens seems to have stalled - because of patents? I wanted to buy a microwave oven with these two features: a) Panasonic-style inverter tech - actual granular power control rather than just pausing for 10 seconds now and then (ultra-low frequency PWM) when running at less than 100% power. b) Sharp-style "start immediately and run for 30-60 secs more for every button press" start button functionality I've tried really hard to find a Microwave oven in Europe that does both a + b. It doesn't seem to exist.
- TMWNN 6y ago> Everything related to Microwave ovens seems to have stalled - because of patents? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Wistar 6y agoLook at LG's NeoChef "Smart Inverter Magnetron" models. I have the .9 cu ft one. Inverter tech plus starts immediately and two "add time" controls: one adds in 30 second increments and a separate control that adds OR subtracts cooking time in 10 second intervals. We've had it about two years now, use the heck out of it and it is, unquestionably, the best microwave we've ever had. Plus, it looks good in stainless and black glass. About $130. https://www.lg.com/us/counter-top-microwave https://www.lg.com/us/counter-top-microwave
- tpmx 6y agoIntriguing. Maybe I'll have to import it from the US... (and then run it via some 230V/50 Hz to 110V/60 Hz thingie).
- upofadown 6y ago>With solid-state sources, frequency can be shifted (2.4-2.5GHz, for example) to move nodes and anti-nodes around the cavity... Probably not so great for WiFi...
- orev 6y agoWiFi has always used the microwave frequency range, and badly designed microwave ovens (that don’t fully isolate the waves inside) have always been a problem for WiFi. The use of 2.4 GHz in ovens is one of the primary reasons it’s an unlicensed frequency range. The interference is one of the reasons 5 GHz was added as another frequency to use for WiFi.
- anotherhue 6y agoCommercial ovens, medical diathermy, and a few shenanigans from GE are why 2.4 is open. [1] I don't believe it is correct to say 5G was added due to interference, the development time ines suggest it was more for throughput. 1: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/why-2-4ghz-chasing-wireless-history https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/why-2-4ghz-chasing-wirele...
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago5GHz wireless phones were deployed to deal with a crowded 2.4GHz band flooded by baby monitors and other BW hogs. This was all before wifi became ubiquitous. Funny enough the rare digital spread spectrum 900MHz phones that came out just before the higher frequencies took over were great because of limited use by that time plus minimal interference from walls and analog phones.
- lukeschlather 6y agoMicrowave isn't great for WiFi anyway. If the solid-state sources are more focused though, that could be better, it would mean less interference leaking outside the microwave.
- m463 6y agoYeah, years ago my parents used to have trouble with the microwave and the old 2.4 ghz wifi and I fixed it for them by pinning the wifi channel. I don't know if this will take out all of them, or affect nothing (since we have multiple frequencies and better protocols)
- guerby 6y agoFun video about microwave oven now vs thirty years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0 "The Antique Microwave Oven that's Better than Yours" by Technology Connections
- pedrow 6y agoWhen my friends' parents started getting microwave ovens (late seventies, early eighties I suppose) the received wisdom was to leave a cup of cold water in there when the oven wasn't being used. Does anyone else remember this?
- duskwuff 6y agoSomething got lost in translation. Putting a cup of water in the microwave is advisable over running the microwave with an empty chamber -- something to do with the microwaves getting reflected back into the magnetron and causing overheating. But there's no such concern while the appliance isn't running.
- scottlamb 6y agoI think the advice was in case the microwave was started accidentally. My parents used to leave a cup of water in the microwave, and they explained it in that way. I don't think it's gotten any less bad to run an empty microwave, but maybe we've realized starting it accidentally isn't that common, and/or we've gotten complacent.
- duskwuff 6y agoThat, and it's not as if the microwave will explode the instant you turn it on while empty. It'll take a few minutes before the magnetron overheats.
- hrishi 6y agoModern microwaves also have resettable fuses and protection for the magentron overloading. Not suggesting you run it empty, but it's less of an issue now.
- anotherhue 6y agoThe standard Cavity Magnetron is pretty solid state already. Seems a strange way to phrase this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron
- whatshisface 6y agoTechnology based on electrons moving in a vacuum is not considered solid state. Vacuum tubes are an example of that kind of technology - the electronic switches that preceded transistors. I guess free electrons might be considered "plasma state," although that might be stretching the definition of plasma.
- amelius 6y agoBut I guess that if you want to modulate the frequency, you'd have to change the geometry (?)
- userbinator 6y agoI wonder how the reliability is --- the newer inverter-based ovens often burn out the electronics long before the magnetron.
- throwaway201103 6y agoI still use the same Goldstar (the company is now LG) microwave oven I bought in the late 1980s. Still works fine. Even the original interior light still works. That is a high bar for reliability.
- aaron695 6y agoMicrowaves made cooking quicker, which changed lives, which changed the way society was structured. Anything that reduces home chores will increase the size and change the demographic of the workforce for instance. Microwaves are also very flawed, it'd be like if rice cookers cooked rice only 85% as good and the rice was unhealthier. This article is 2016 and nothing has changed.
- nautilus12 6y agoCould this eventually be used to for example have a microwave that could make creme brulee by just targeting the top of the custard
- seltzered_ 6y ago2016. Here's some of the slide from freescale/NXP about this from then: https://twitter.com/vivekgani/status/684893901602205696 https://twitter.com/vivekgani/status/684893901602205696 . Earlier version of myself used to obsess about ideas like this, these days more interested in appropriate technology rather than overall efficiency. see also a demo video from then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7fhBUTMso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7fhBUTMso
- 01100011 6y agoInteresting technology but that steak in the video looks terrible.
- cycomanic 6y agoActually I would say the future of microwaves is things like the miele dialog oven, which uses essentially MIMO techniques to direct the microwaves (at about 2.4 GHz IIRC, so the thing has a lot of shielding build in). I find it amazing how microwaves have just become worse over the last decades. Lots more functions in the UI without being needed, because the oven can't actually do anything interesting. AFAIK, pretty much every microwave still does PWM to change power for example.
- jdnier 6y agohttps://thespoon.tech/miele-shipping-the-dialog-their-oven-with-solid-state-cooking-tech-to-20-countries/ https://thespoon.tech/miele-shipping-the-dialog-their-oven-w... Wow, 7,990 EUR! Description from 2017: https://thespoon.tech/miele-introduces-the-dialog-a-high-end-oven-powered-by-rf-solid-state-cooking-technology/ https://thespoon.tech/miele-introduces-the-dialog-a-high-end...
- p1mrx 6y ago> "We have cooked a whole egg." That's pretty incredible. Does randomizing the nodes make it less dangerous to microwave metal?
- jm1234567890 6y agoMy Bosch microwave is fine to put metal in. They actually recommend putting a spoon in water to avoid super heating it
- agumonkey 6y agono arcing ?
- jm1234567890 6y agoNope, but instructions said don’t get metal too close to walls.
- ohazi 6y agoNo, it's not. These are specialized RF mosfets that cost hundreds of dollars a piece, and you currently need at least four to come close to the output power of a weak consumer microwave. The power supply and control and protection circuitry is also exotic and expensive. A 2 kW magnetron costs six bucks in quantity.
- raverbashing 6y agoI bet it comes with the reliability of Windows Me as well Stepping up the voltage with a DC-DC converter for the Magnetron is doable. Having a 2.4GHz 1kW amplifier just to heat food? Yeah doesn't look like a good idea.
- ohazi 6y agoAnd a freaking circulator at the output to keep reflections from frying the transistors? This design belongs in a cell tower, not a kitchen.
- imtringued 6y agoI don't need a stronger microwave. When I put non frozen food into a microwave it becomes too hot to eat after 2 minutes. If the food is just right after two minutes it is perfect.
- OJFord 6y agoMine's a 1kW model, and the only powers I use are 270W max (defrost setting) and 450W (to reheat). Not so much that I think it tastes better having heated more slowly, (untested) it just gives easier/less crucial times and more time to react, fits in better with whatever else is cooking that isn't in the microwave.
- OJFord 6y agoIt is in the sense that they do exist (article is from 2016) - my previous employer had them in the kitchens for people bringing their own (not-yet-hot) lunch etc. Retail models, not catering kitchen equipment. I don't know what they cost but they looked just mid-high end, not the cheapest thing you could get but certainly not the most expensive obscure brand. Just something in the middle with a huge markup for the particular fascia they're selling it with this year.
- mehrdadn 6y agoA bit off-topic, but anyone know what came of Panasonic's "cyclonic wave" technology? Does it work as well as it's advertised? It seems nice in theory so I'm kind of confused why it doesn't seem to be used in more models.