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History channel shows and the like give preppers a bad name, but prepping, as highlighted in this article, doesn't need to involve guns and bunkers. In fact, yo

• arethuza 6y ago
  The UK Government certainly does: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preparing-for-emergencies/preparing-for-emergencies https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preparing-for-eme... As does the Scottish Government: https://ready.scot/how-scotland-prepares https://ready.scot/how-scotland-prepares And that's not even covering the Covid-19 pandemic where there was a lot of community based help groups checking that older people were OK etc. Edit: Mind you some UK gov self help schemes were less well received: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1500124311 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1500124311
• coldpie 6y ago
  When we moved into our house, we put together a little box of canned good, a sterno stove, small medical kit, etc. We rediscovered it this year, and I ended up eating a bunch of 3-year-expired canned goods :D (We did re-stock it. Never having to use it is a good thing.)
  • redisman 6y ago
    We have a small pack too, mainly focused on some calories for a few days and ways to clean water (lifestraw and a stove for boiling).
  • brobdingnagians 6y ago
    We buy an extra couple weeks worth of dry goods of things we are already using/eating, then cycle through it. Doesn't work for everything, but in the event of a disaster I'd be happy to have it :)
    • rcurry 6y ago
      That’s the right way to do it, stock up on high quality canned and dry foods that you enjoy and then just cycle through the supply. One day you don’t feel like a fancy dinner so you crack open a few cans of chili and some nice mixed veggies, or boil up some noodles or whatever and just replace them every other month or so. Power goes out and you’re still living large instead of eating five year old MREs.
  • vishnugupta 6y ago
    I’ve never prepped so asking out of sheer curiosity. I wonder if there’s value in simulating disaster-living. It’s one thing to be ready with supplies and another to actually live through it, albeit for lesser time. Would it help discover a few more unknowns? Maybe some supply that you would only realize you need when you experience it? Think of it a life-version of chaos monkey or similar to a fire drill?
    • vidanay 6y ago
      Back in the day, we called this "going camping for the weekend"
      • p1esk 6y ago
        Camping for a couple of weeks would be more relevant.
        • dylan604 6y ago
          A weekend is a pretty decent test though. If you flip the main breaker on your panel and use the water service shut off valve, you'll know in 24 hours how well you can cope. After 48, you'll know exactly what needs to be addressed. Provided you're in a house with access to those kinds of shut-offs
          • p1esk 6y ago
            No it’s not. I know I can survive 48 hours without water (let alone food or power). I can just sit around and do nothing. Not so with two weeks.
            • llukas 6y ago
              Have you thought how your toilet will look like after 48 hours without water?
    • helij 6y ago
      The trick is to actually prep with stuff you normally eat and use.
  • ClikeX 6y ago
    You should probably put calendar reminders to start eating from the supply in time and re-stock before things expire. If shit hits the fan you probably don't want to be stuck with a supply that's already expired.
    • VBprogrammer 6y ago
      The types of things you should be packing, in a real emergency, will still be perfectly edible.
    • krtkush 6y ago
      After watching Steve1989MREInfo[1] eat decades old canned food dozens of times, I have stopped following expiry dates to the T. [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHA
    • pharke 6y ago
      A simpler solution is to stock your shelves from back to front so the oldest items are always the first you grab. Don't buy things that you don't eat on a regular basis because: a) they'll sit in the back of the pantry and expire b) if you do have to eat them you'll be miserable if you don't like them c) you won't know how to properly prepare them and you'll probably be missing some other key ingredients
      • joshstrange 6y ago
        And a non-simple solution is to write an iPhone app that scans QR codes that you print onto stickers that put on all your food so you can keep track of the expiration/purchase dates... I know because that's the route I took haha. I won't pretend it was the BEST use of my time but it was fun and I can easily see how much I have of everything and where in my house it's located.
        • zepto 6y ago
          Presumably you have solar chargers and lots of batteries too
  • rutledge87 6y ago
    The easiest thing is to buy staples to use them FIFO. That way, you're not stuck with 100 lbs of honey, flour, or such.
    • zardaxian 6y ago
      Don't you mean LIFO?
      • zepto 6y ago
        No - it’s fifo
        • zardaxian 6y ago
          yes it is, I commented before coffee :)
• komali2 6y ago
  Also check if your city has a CERT (or in SF, NERT) organization! It's a citizen-trained response team initiative that usually falls under law enforcement. The idea is in an earthquake you can have a couple thousand purpose-trained citizens running around shutting off gas valves, checking on neighbors, assisting emergency services with communication (through HAM radio for example), and doing other basic tasks that let the fire department focus on cutting people out of collapsed buildings or putting out fires. By the way, regarding "gun and bunker" preppers, this is a sharp divide in the prepper community. Practically every thread in /r/preppers and similar forums and subreddits eventually devolves into what essentially amounts to an ideological battle between communists and libertarians, or, "we believe people are inherently good" vs "we believe people are inherently evil" to take a non-political-compass take. FWIW, the "inherently good" people have more evidence on their side, based on how communities have responded to disaster in the pass. A great book on the subject is "A Paradise Built in Hell" by Rebecca Solnit[1]. She takes a look at primary sources from a set of disasters throughout history, and how people helped eachother with no expectation of reward. She also turns up some cases of totally selfless ultimate sacrifices for strangers. It's really interesting. EDIT: A great fictional illustration of this rift in the prepper community is 'The Masque of the Red Death', a short story in the book "Radicalized" by Cory Doctorow. It follows the story of the ultimate prepper fantasy, a rich options trader who builds a "Fort Doom" in scrubland, equipped with a year or so of food, water, purification equipment, sanitation equipment, and of course a veritable armory. It compares this character against the general community of IIRC Portland, who are reacting to a government-ending pandemic through mutual aide instead. A really fun exploratory take. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6444492-a-paradise-built-in-hell https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6444492-a-paradise-built... S
• SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
  Years ago, I lived outside a metro area deep in the woods, and the metro response team told us we would be low-priority in the event of a natural disaster. Makes sense: why burn resources to help a few thousand people when a few hundred thousand are suffering. The metro response team told us to prepare for 30 days without support, especially electricity (we were ALL on well water) or accessible roads. We formed a dozen smaller neighborhood teams that met regularly to identify elderly people who would need check-ins, medical needs, resources people were willing to share. This was in addition to family prep: water, first aid, food, batteries, etc. We even did an emergency rations taste-off (they all suck, btw) and bought a community cargo container that we filled with community supplies (I had left the hood by that point). It was surprising that about 10% of the people in each area refused to participate. Most were pissed that we even had their names on a spreadsheet, even though they were older and might need assistance. They felt we were intruding on their privacy and they didn't need our help. However, we included them in the calculations for emergency resources in case they decided to come around after a disaster happened. TL;DR: city recommended rural folks be prepared for a max 30 days on your own.
  • ukyrgf 6y ago
    Living in Florida, I've gone weeks without power. It's so disappointing to get up, go to work, come back, and still not have power. And it's 90 degrees and 100% humid, and if you open the windows bugs will get in. It's just up to you and whatever neighbors are nearby to clean things up so the utility crews can try to rebuild. One hurricane knocked the cable out for months and I got so desperate that I signed up for AOL...
• maxerickson 6y ago
  The "prepping" in the article isn't "being prepared", which is what ready.gov suggests, it's dumping massive resources into paranoid fantasies of surviving alone for a few months.
  • gowld 6y ago
    What are the odds of an earthquake or hurricane temporarily decimating local infrastructure? Can you name any times that's happened in recent memory? I have to reach as far back into the ancient annals as... 2017.
    • maxerickson 6y ago
      Yeah, and people mostly either evacuate or have outside help in a matter of days.
• dekhn 6y ago
  I live in Northern California for the past 25 years (that's a quarter of a century). In that entire time, I have not seen a single earthquake that required me to be prepared for (I still do have an emergency kit and we're all prepared). In fact earthquakes of similar sizes happen all over the US. Instead, the following things have far more direct impact on me and my family: driving in traffic, walking on the street, electronics fires in my garage, the food I eat, the amount of exercise I get. I'm sure there will be a Big One at some point in the next 30 years, but in terms of risk, the basic prepping procedures handle a wider range of common problems than earthquakes.
  • bigbubba 6y ago
    Not to impugn on your cred or anything, but 25 years may as well be the blink of an eye when you're talking about geological phenomenon. > 'What are you worried about, I've lived here 25 years and that mountain never did shit.' -probably some Roman citizen in Pompeii, 79 BC
    • dekhn 6y ago
      Lives are ~75 years long, should I actually invest any effort into large-scale problems that occur at scales longer than my life when there are risks that are far higher around which I can make direct changes?
      • kube-system 6y ago
        Depends on how much effort it takes. Statistically, my house will never burn down within my lifetime, but the $20 it takes to buy a fire extinguisher is worth it. It also doesn't take much effort to do the types of things mentioned on https://www.ready.gov/kit https://www.ready.gov/kit
        • bigbubba 6y ago
          Likewise, I have all-electic heating and no gas service to my home, but a carbon monoxide detector only costs a few dollars so I still have one even though the risk is very low (most fires would probably trip the smoke detectors first I think.)
• gowld 6y ago
  There's very little wrong with prepping guns. The details are sensitive and debatable, but a "well-regulated Militia" is in the Constitution. The fear of guns that "responsible people" increasingly have means that irresponsible people are becoming a larger share of gun owners. A "prep" that has guns and separately locked ammo in a locked safe is a responsible prep.
  • hiddenforest 6y ago
    With the upcoming administration, the likelihood of a ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds is a possibility. Both Joe and Kamala want gun registration, which is a no-no. The government has no business knowing who owns what. They work for us, not the other way around. And no, I'm not a right-wing gun nut. Quite the opposite, actually. I dislike the current administration. Our rights are inalienable, not granted by government. The second something is granted, it's no longer a right, but a granted privilege. I don't do granted privileges. Needless to say, no one I know who is a gun owner plans on registering anything. Most of the people I know who are gun owners bought them in face-to-face buys and there is zero record of them owning anything, as it should be. I dislike both the Dems and the Reps as far as rights go. I'd be happier with a tiny government that exists to protect the borders, ensure free trade, and prevent monopoly. The Founders were correct.
    • anonymousse1234 6y ago
      It's refreshing to read that on hackernews.
    • copperx 6y ago
      Your point of view is extremely US-centered. I would be shocked, for example, to hear an European to hold such a view.
      • hiddenforest 6y ago
        You haven't met many Finns, have you? Or Czechs. I know many Europeans who would love to have a 2nd Amendment. I've lived in Europe before, so I've had time to actually speak and interact with locals in several EU countries. I met heaps of Germans with all manner of firearms. It doesn't come up much in conversation in the EU, but the sentiment is alive and well and with more people than you might think.
• 13415 6y ago
  There is disaster preparedness and then there is prepping, the two don't match each other. Most self-proclaimed preppers advocate atrocious "us or them" social darwinist ideologies and have policies that could get them and others killed. For example, many of them think it's a good idea to go camping in the woods in case of a natural disaster, which almost never makes any sense. They also frequently talk about shooting strangers instead of helping them and stockpile ammunition instead of antibiotics. They also should worry more about dental care and less about other people. I'm sure there are exceptions, but as rule of thumb I'd stay away from any US prepper as far as I could in case of a genuine emergency like a Yellowstone outbreak or a worldwide pandemic.
  • kube-system 6y ago
    Your description sounds like the plot of the movie Red Dawn... which is probably not a coincidence.
    • hindsightbias 6y ago
      back in that day, half the audience considered a Cuban/Nicaraguan invasion to be a real thing to worry about.
    • 13415 6y ago
      I've studied the US "prepper" culture intensively for a novel I've written, watched hundreds of videos by preppers for research and read Lundin, Dartnell, and Seymour's books among others. It's not a prejudice, it's my verdict.
      • kube-system 6y ago
        I'm not suggesting you're biased. I'm suggesting that there are too many people taking movies too seriously.
        • 13415 6y ago
          Oh yes, I agree. The reason is also that in the US part of the right-wing pro gun / militia / anti-federal government culture on the countryside overlaps with the prepper community. Some of them are also fanatic Christians who literally believe a day of judgment will come soon. There are some survivalists and naturalists among them (like Lundin), but they are in a minority.
• hef19898 6y ago
  Maybe that was called prepping back the day. Nowadays, prepping was pretty much taken over by guns and bunker types. Which is bad, because general readiness is a good thing. German authorities certainly recommend a very level of stuff like food and medicine to be kept at home.
  • ironmagma 6y ago
    Prepper culture definitely still includes the amassing of food and water storage, as well as paraphernalia like CB radios. It’s just that there are perhaps some loud believers in the need for ammo thrown in there, and why not?
    • Retric 6y ago
      One consideration is old ammo is somewhere between useless and dangerous. You might get 10 years from date of purchase out of it, but large ammo stockpiles are of limited use in a collapse of society situation and need to be constantly updated. Long term bow, atal, and sling are much better for hunting.
      • bigbubba 6y ago
        Whoever told you this was probably trying to sell more ammunition; modern ammunition is good for decades at least. In the present, use of old ammunition (a few decades or more) is discouraged because the old formulations of primer compound produce corrosive hygroscopic metal salts that will rust your gun badly if you're not dilligent with cleaning. Very cheap old surplus ammunition from overseas is something to be wary of, but that's mostly because of bad QC that made that ammunition unreliable or dangerous from the day it was made. As for atal or sling, unless you've been practicing with these since you were a child, I think you'll sooner starve to death than score yourself a single meal. The cultures which used those tools had people practicing with them for years before they were useful with them. A sling is easy to make, I encourage you to try it out. I used a pair of shoelaces I bought at the grocery store for $2. It is not easy to even get the projectile flying in the general direction you intended, so if you try this make sure you're far from any buildings or bystanders... (But really, I recommend buying some canned food. It is unlikely any infrastructure collapse would last more than a few weeks. Any scenario where you have to hunt for food at all, let alone for years, seems exceedingly unlikely.)
• symlinkk 6y ago
  Actually it does need to involve guns, or else everything you’ve spent all that time prepping will be stolen from you in the event of a major catastrophe. Take this with a grain of salt, as there’s no way to verify it’s real, but supposedly someone who lived through the Bosnian War posted about their experiences on a prepping forum, and the stories are pretty disturbing: https://prephole.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-war-selco-forum-thread/ https://prephole.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-...
• cortesoft 6y ago
  "prepping" is a specific term for preparing for the collapse of society, it is not a generic term for preparation. Preparing for a natural disaster is not prepping.
  • bjlorenzen 6y ago
    Natural disasters generally do represent temporary collapses of society.
    • jlokier 6y ago
      Perhaps surprisingly, not so much. Often during an acute natural disaster people help each other out and are more mutually supportive than normal. People usually find ways to get the basics up and running, such as shelter and food, pretty fast.
      • bigbubba 6y ago
        Relying on your neighbors to be prepared and able to help you out does seem to be a very popular way to 'prepare', but I don't think it's an approach to encourage...
        • jlokier 6y ago
          Relying on them, no. But in practice natural disasters are rarely a "collapse of society" sort of thing. It's more that you should have supplies and shelter, and a way to communicate. In the middle of difficulties where people work together, I'd say that's "society" in action. "Collapse of society" tends to be more descriptive of human-driven disasters such as war and civil war, where people start turning against each other and there's high levels of mutual distrust and violence.
        • hannasanarion 6y ago
          Being prepared has nothing to do with it. Nobody was prepared for the Anchorage earthquake of 1964, but within minutes people had self-organized into firefighting and excavation teams, set up emergency response relays with a hodgepodge of walkie-talkies, police radio, and AM broadcasters, and within hours there was a centralized volunteer dispatch and food bank. Relying on your neighbors in a disaster doesn't mean hiding out in their anti-zombie bunker. It means knowing that the entire community will respond together to overcome the emergency.
• tomjen3 6y ago
  Sweden wants you to prep, they sent a letter to every household in the country. I prepped for Covid in late February or early March, I was pessimistic in my assumptions, but not by much. Prepping is important, but you also have to be reasonable when you plan, and you have to be aware of what you can't adapt for (e.g I realized that I had to assume water would still be available, because I couldn't store 14+ days of water in my apartment). Most of the people who are normally labeled preppers don't have a reasonable assumption of what they prep for. So they try to prepare for the end of the world, not because it is realistically going to happen, but because they need to control things.
• rutledge87 6y ago
  Just moved out of CA. Went through Loma Prieta, Camp Fire, and numerous power outages. The other likely natural disaster is a megaflood like 1861-2.
• fogihujy 6y ago
  Finnish authorities do the same: https://72hours.fi/ https://72hours.fi/ People are expected to be able to manage on their own for at least 72 hours in case of systemic/societal disruptions. It's quite sane advice really, even though a lot of people actually seem opposed to the idea for some reason.
  • rolandog 6y ago
    Nowadays, it's common to live in small places (apartments or studios); I'm thinking that the shelves and fridge space is a limitation.
    • fogihujy 6y ago
      Yeah, I get that, and it is a pretty good of how disconnected people and authorities can be at times. If people aren't able to prepare for things they're expected to prepare for, then people's living conditions need to be improved until they can prepare. There's going to be people who chose to live in such places despite recommendations, of course, but that's a matter of personal choice.