8 ms·
> My experience talking to the other side during this administration is that they are completely unable and often unwilling to consider any argument or informat
by miked85 6y ago
> My experience talking to the other side during this administration is that they are completely unable and often unwilling to consider any argument or information that conflicts with their views.
This absolutely goes both ways; that is the biggest problem.
- pm90 6y agoSorry, this isn’t true, and it’s important to call out as such. https://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2017/9/22/16345194/republican-party-pathological https://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2017/9/22/16345194/republican-...
- miked85 6y agoI think you just proved my point.
- pm90 6y agoHow?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- eagsalazar2 6y agoNothing was proved either way.
- sudosysgen 6y agoNo, no that didn't. Just because someone denies an adverse position doesn't mean that they are fanatically denying evidence, it can easily be the case that the adverse position is false, and that they are open to seeing it proven true but haven't seen it.
- Mitzi 6y agoPerhaps a better question would be: Consider two parties starting out relatively reasonable. Over time, members of both parties claim the other party is becoming unreasonable or outright crazy. This could be true in the following to scenarios: (1) Both parties have become crazy. Both parties would be correct in their claims but of course also guilty of having gone crazy. (2) Party A has stayed reasonable and party B has become crazy. Party A would be correct in their claim and party B's claim would be part of them being crazy. How do you distinguish between (1) and (2) from the outside?
- faitswulff 6y agoAbsolutely not equivalent. Find me a liberal police captain who’s calling for Trump supporters to be shot in the head: https://abc3340.com/news/local/alabama-police-chief-on-social-media-about-biden-voters-put-a-bullet-in-their-skull https://abc3340.com/news/local/alabama-police-chief-on-socia...
- curious_fella1 6y agoOne loud, crazy voice doesn't represent the majority.
- nate_meurer 6y agoNormally I'd agree, but in this case, the loud crazy voice is often Trump himself.
- pnw_hazor 6y agoShe is not alone.
- humanrebar 6y agoIf intransigence is justified by any violent idiocy among the opposition, we will have mass intransigence indefinitely. We cannot reasonably ask for peaceful daytime demonstrations to be considered separately from after-sundown looting and arson if we aren't willing to make likewise considerations.
- faitswulff 6y agoThe difference is that the police captain can shoot you and me and get away with it.
- manigandham 6y agoIf you go hunting for extreme examples then you'll certainly find them, on every side. Or perhaps we should stop cherry-picking the extremes as representative of all the people.
- romanoderoma 6y agoIt goes both ways, if you don't consider that one side has a leader calling out his people to be vigilant and prepared and in fact two men father and son have been arrested yesterday in Philadelphia armed of ar-15 with hundreds of rounds, the other has leaders thanking the volunteers of all sides and talking about reuniting American people
- famouslastwords 6y ago>one side has a leader calling out his people to be vigilant and prepared What's wrong with being vigilant? I remember more than four years of accusations that Russia somehow hacked the last election. Vigilance would be prudent. >in fact two men father and son have been arrested yesterday in Philadelphia armed of ar-15 with hundreds of rounds Read up on the story. They weren't even carrying the rifle. The fake ballots were just a publicity stunt to mock the story of Biden's receiving miraculous overnight ballots. >thanking the volunteers of all sides and talking about reuniting American people Politicians all over the world say that after they won the election through various means. It's just a platitude and doesn't mean anything.
- linuxhansl 6y agoAll this talk about "sides" is not helpful. What I will say is that there are those are reflective of their viewpoint, will question and review their choices, and change their mind about things in light of new information... And then there are those who are not and won't; those who act out of tradition and pride, those who believe in conspiracy theories, those who let themselves be played like marionettes with simple trigger topics, etc. There is a difference; but it's not left or right, conservative or liberal, it's reflective or not reflective.
- raegis 6y agoDisagree. When Obama was elected, the Republicans in congress swore to never support any of his policies, regardless of whether they agreed with them. (Eric Cantor and others admitted this in interviews.) This severely degraded the relationship between the parties beyond repair.
- winter_blue 6y agoPrecisely this.
- arkis22 6y agoright. its THE BAD REPUBLICANS. not THE GOOD DEMOCRATS. completely ignore the never trump idea. (they didnt do this with trump huh?)
- tempestn 6y agoNo, they didn't. Remember the CARES act? House Democrats are still trying to work with Trump, and it's still Senate Republicans that are blocking.
- arkis22 6y agouh no. you're talking about pelosi refusing to go below 2.2 trillion. they stopped working weeks before just so that Trump wouldn't pass anything before election day. where have you been?
- tempestn 6y agoSorry, should have said 'were' rather than 'are'. I don't agree with your framing, but thinking about it more it probably would be fairer to say that both sides can't agree in this case, rather than that one side is obstructing.
- arkis22 6y agoI'm sorry but it would be most correct that one side refuses to go below a certain value and thats the value they've decided is worth it. And you know which side it is.
- tw04 6y agoTrue. The ACA was after all, literally the republican plan straight from Mitt Romney, but Democrats were unwilling to negotiate or compromise. (Yes this is sarcasm, ACA was literally the Democrats meeting in the middle when they didn't even have to) Everytime someone like you makes this claim I ask the same question: show some examples. "both sides are the same" is a weak excuse for supporting bad behavior. The Republicans haven't acted in good faith since about the early 90s.
- Steltek 6y agoErr, you meant Republicans were unwilling to compromise, right? Because the Democrats bent over backwards to introduce 160 Republican amendments to the ACA and even delayed votes to have more Republican voices heard during debate.
- mmaurizi 6y agoI think this is a bit of historical revisionism. Yes there are some amendments in the bill from Republicans because Dems wanted a "bipartisan" bill even if they only got a handful of GOP reps (they ultimately got none). But the Democrats couldn't have gotten a bill more left-wing through the senate. They tried, but various Dem senators stripped out both lowering the Medicare age and the public option.
- jkubicek 6y agoI’m excited and eager to have discussions with people who don’t share my political position on the issues. However, I am not at all eager to have a discussion with people who are arguing in bad faith or staking their position on lies and falsehoods. What’s the point in having a discussion on the best ways to combat the effects of climate change when one political party has taken the position that anthropogenic climate change doesn’t exist? What’s the point in having a discussion on the best way to fix the broken US healthcare system when one political party not only refuses to acknowledge that it’s broken, but is trying to undo what minor improvements we’ve been able to make in the last 12 years? The GOP has marked itself as an opponent to everything that Democrats suggest and has painted itself into the stupidest possible corner, where they need to fight tooth and nail against their own policies because there’s a Democrat administration.
- pzone 6y agoThe way you have framed conservative positions on these issues seems like you’re imputing bad faith to them and assuming no reasonable person could hold those views. With climate change, one doesn’t have to deny the science at all to hold a position that the optimal policy choice should be to do nothing, or to wait several decades before taking action. The science predicts some real but finite amount of harm in the future from global warming. Mitigations would also be very painful, eg carbon taxes that make air travel unaffordable to all but the very wealthy. And in terms of healthcare, everyone agrees the system is broken. In fact, one of Trump’s biggest campaign promises was to fix the US healthcare system. The difference is that conservatives see the government intervention in the healthcare industry as the main problem. (The Federal government pays 2/3 of all healthcare spending in the country, so our system is pretty “socialized” already.) Trump’s first step was an attempt to repeal Obamacare and start to return the healthcare system to more market-based solutions. However Congress was not willing to go through with it so we haven’t had any progress on healthcare since. Conservative views are not simply a bunch of people arguing in bad faith.
- philosopher1234 6y agoThere are some reasonable conservatives, and many completely insane trump supporters. I believe there are more insane trump supporters than reasonable people on the right these days, and denying the existence of this very vocal group that has a stranglehold on the zeitgeist is not helpful at all.