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Gimp 2.99.2 – GTK3 user interface toolkit
- tripa 6y agoI wasn't too happy when my distro upgraded from 2.8 to 2.10. The new icon set for the toolbox may be more trendy, but I have a much harder time recognizing/understanding which is which not they're all monochrome. Glad to see HiDPI come up.
- Kjeldahl 6y agoYeah, except I guess 98% of HiDPI users are on MacOS, a platform they are currently unable to create builds for.
- tripa 6y agoSo I am the 2%. Glad anyway :)
- mixmastamyk 6y agoIt's 2020. I've been sitting in front of two 4k monitors for perhaps five years now, under Ubuntu Mate. Every month or so an HN comment implies it doesn't work. ;-)
- btashton 6y agoSo many years of people telling me that my exact setup does not work, yet here I am not remembering the last time I had an issue with displays on Linux. It has even gotten _better_ since I moved to Wayland which I am also told does not work.
- OJFord 6y agoTo be fair, the last time I did was when I bought my current monitor, this year. 2560x1440, and only works properly when I log in so my X config loads. I messed up some PAM config shortly after, and had to chroot to fix it - couldn't read a single letter I was typing (impossibly small and distorted for the number of pixels used to display them, character widths all over the place too) but manager to get it done, very carefully and slowly... I probably should've made getting it working system wide a priority after that (maybe it's as simple as I used my user config rather than /etc, I can't remember) but I haven't. I suppose worst case I could use a different older monitor anyway.
- mnahkies 6y agoAgree - been using 4k monitors with Fedora for years as well, and whilst there's still a few warts it's been steadily getting better and is perfectly usable. Looking forward to seeing Gimp with native support though
- solarkraft 6y agoHello from the 2%.
- dubcanada 6y agoYa there certainly isn’t and hidpi windows or Mac users
- reidrac 6y agoYou can change that on the settings. I know because I had the same problem and you can choose a more familiar iconset.
- Dahoon 6y ago>You can change that on the settings. Always a valid reply in Linux discussions.
- Shared404 6y agoTo be fair, that's part of why I use Linux :)
- kzrdude 6y agoThough not always in GNOME discussions j/k
- zozbot234 6y ago"You can change that in dconf. Though maybe there is a tweak for it. Or perhaps it's a behavior you can script in gnome-shell."
- kelnos 6y agoMore like "you can change that in dconf, but there's a bug[0] that makes it reset every time you restart the application". [0] sotto voce "that we're probably never going to fix"
- MildlySerious 6y agoThe silver lining to that is that I ended up using shortcuts that I never bothered memorizing before.
- kzrdude 6y agoI'm so poisoned by election news that I read "Nate Silver" in your comment.
- ohazi 6y agoDoes anyone know if those hideous GTK3 title bars are rendered by the client (GIMP), or is the person taking the screenshot just using GNOME?
- klodolph 6y agoThe title bars look identical to everything else on my Gnome 3 system.
- ohazi 6y agoRight, and I'm running XFCE with a different theme, or i3 without any titlebars, and every GTK3 app that uses client-side window decorations looks out of place. I'm not running Gnome 3, I don't ever intend to run Gnome 3, and GTK shouldn't poison the last 15 years of GTK applications to try to bump up the Gnome 3 adoption numbers by attrition. It's petty and obnoxious.
- cycloptic 6y agoThe titlebars are a design choice made by the app developer, not by GNOME. At least in the sense that it's only part of GNOME's design guidelines, app developers using GTK don't have to follow it if they don't want. There are various ways you can configure/modify a GTK app to hide the titlebars and attempt to use server-side decorations. But either way you are faced with the choice of potentially hiding important functionality if the app developer has decided to put buttons in the titlebar, or having two titlebars like with this patch: https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- prokoudine 6y agoYes, I use GNOME. Usually, I'd go to fullscreen mode to make a screenshot, But this time it was kind of important to show image dimensions and overall amount of layers.
- xalava 6y agoJust on time for GTK 4. Pretty ironic considering that GTK stands for Gimp ToolKit.
- CameronNemo 6y agoAnd Inkscape only updated to 3 earlier this year. I wish the GTK devs would realize that these applications are the life blood of their toolkit. Calculators, calendars, and even mail apps can be popped out easy peasy when they need to be. Applications like GIMP, Inkscape, and Ardour take years to become usable and competitive.
- lmedinas 6y agothis is problem #1 of Linux Desktop. Toolkits and Libraries constantly changing and reinventing the wheel. Actually a big part of developing an GTK App is actually catching up with the API changes. As a proof of this see the early how-tos of GTK 3.0 and 3.2 and see the recent ones and see how much it changed. There were plenty of apps changing from GTK to Qt awhile ago i suspect GTK4 will be the next. As for Gimp and Inkscape it will probably take another decade to catch up.
- 2Gkashmiri 6y agoCall me a noob but why should this problem exist even today ? Why are APIs such grossly incompatible with previous gens such that a complete overwrite is necessary?
- lmedinas 6y agoWell i think GNOME and even GTK has very few contributors and mainly sponsored by RH and other companies. I suspect they are often getting paid to develop features for subcontracting and other times they want to "modernize" the toolkit and they just write a new API with additional features. We have seen this during DBus introduction, GSettings, Clutter etc... etc... Plus GTK+ is C plus lots of boil plate code to make it "object oriented" which turns to be even a bigger pain when pure GTK+ apps need to update their APIs to catch up with the latest. But imo this is a general trend on Linux except for the Kernel where Linus and co do a great job to prevent API breakage. The others not so much.
- formerly_proven 6y agoThe Gimp devs taking nine years to port from Gimp Toolkit 2 to Gimp Toolkit 3 kinda invalidates all claims about porting between Qt versions being too hard, doesn't it?
- bitwize 6y agoGTK hasn't been the Gimp Toolkit in years. It's much more the GNOME Toolkit these days.
- baybal2 6y agoYes, siding with you on this. Biggest fault of the Gtk/GNOME ecosystem these days is a small bunch of atrociously toxic people centering around RedHat shouting "Nobody besides me works on this, and that! So sit tightly, and shut up with your feedback!," while completely forgetting that it was them who scared off, and trolled out most normal people out of the GNOME community, including some of the best devs they had.
- cycloptic 6y agoCan you elaborate on this? Who was scared off, and how/why was this done?
- zozbot234 6y agoThere is a lengthy history of general toxicity, gatekeeping attitudes and the like in the Gnome dev community, dating back to the early 2.x days. This extensive comment https://dot.kde.org/comment/60560#comment-60560 https://dot.kde.org/comment/60560#comment-60560 dates back to 2003, and back then RedHat wasn't even heavily involved in development (the major corporate sponsors back then were Eazel and Ximian, which are basically unheard of today) but clearly the overall attitude has not changed much since then.
- cycloptic 6y agoThat appears to be a completely out-of-context comment about GNOME made on a KDE blog for unclear reasons. But anyway, I looked through most of the links in that comment and I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to. There are some heated arguments around technical issues in those mailing list posts, but there are also many positive comments such as this: >If anything, we have to turn the GNOME community around and make this community a tolerant community, and a community of love. I have to say that I am surprised by how well the gnome-love mailing list has taken of, and surprised to see various newcomers to the platform actually writing code and becoming productive. Also, that was quite a long time ago (some posts are from earlier than 2003) and most of those people involved in those threads don't appear to be associated with the project anymore. It certainly seems like they were able to work out some of their process issues in the last 17 years seeing as how the bonobo/orbit parts were dropped entirely.
- nikodunk 6y agoDamn! That looks a so much better than the GTK2 2.10 version. And better Wayland & HiDPI support – thank the stars.
- ravenstine 6y ago> Plugins now possible with Python 3, JavaScript, Lua, and Vala :O This is a game changer for me. I could use Python, but I'm a full time JavaScript developer and I'm just not the biggest fan of Python in the world. But if I could script in Gimp using JavaScript... that'd be sick!
- iso8859-1 6y agoA lot of GNOME is written in JavaScript now, this is just GIMP catching up to that ecosystem.
- pjmlp 6y agoWhich is why I eventually switched to XFCE. GJS use is quite noticeable.
- jamesgeck0 6y agoIIRC, the optimization benchmarks Canonical did have indicated that JS hasn't been the issue in most of the Gnome performance issues they've worked on.
- pjmlp 6y agoWell, https://feaneron.com/2018/04/20/the-infamous-gnome-shell-memory-leak/ https://feaneron.com/2018/04/20/the-infamous-gnome-shell-mem...
- kzrdude 6y agoTook a decade to get there. Yes, some of us didn't follow gnome through this time.
- ldng 6y agoPerformance as in CPU usage or memory usage or both ?
- xvilka 6y agoI hope they will get rid of it eventually like they got rid of C#/Mono applications.
- snvzz 6y agoWhy would they do this switch on a minor version number release?
- Florin_Andrei 6y agoThe N.99 pattern is usually meant to be "pre-release of (N+1).0". And this is a development release anyway. Stable is still 2.10
- snvzz 6y agoOh, I see. Not sure where I got the idea I was running 2.99.1.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- heavyset_go 6y agoThey really need to get around to either adopting the Glimpse[1] name, or dropping their current one for something else. The project's name makes it hard to recommend it in a professional context even when it would get the job done well. [1] https://glimpse-editor.org/ https://glimpse-editor.org/
- Errsher 6y agoDo you work with a bunch of children?
- bogwog 6y agoDid these people seriously fork GIMP just so they can change the name?! I didn't even know anyone cared about that. I've been using GIMP for many years (since at least 2008) and have heard many valid and not very valid complaints, but never anything about the name being offensive. GIMP has a lot of problems hurting its adoption in professional settings, but the name is hardly one of them. Creating a fork just for that is bike-shedding to the extreme.
- mixmastamyk 6y agoWe've used it in visual fx houses since 1998, no one ever mentioned the name. Many folks don't even know the word, it's British I think.
- hda2 6y agoLikewise. We've been using it in our company in a professional context for years. Coworkers who were introduced to it for the first time have never commented on or were offended by the name. Not a single one. To those who keep complaining about the name: Do you think git's name should also be changed?
- iudqnolq 6y agoYes, I do think it should be changed as well.
- terramex 6y agoWow, that splash screen is so bad that it wraps around the scale and is actually amazing. I admire not trying to compete with Adobe's colorful, highly polished but extremely boring splash screens.
- themodelplumber 6y agoI think this has been the tradition with GIMP dev version splash screens. They are really tongue-in-cheek. It'll change...
- kzrdude 6y agodev version splash screen, it's for fun.
- jorvi 6y agoOnly half on topic, but I wish GIMP garnered the same amount of industry support that Blender has. It has the bones to be great, it just needs a lot of UI and UX polish, and in open source those things always seem to attract the least passion (which is okay! if people work on something for free and of their own accord, they can pick whatever they want to work on). If some serious industry dough was being poured into GIMP, they could pay people to work on the less-fun bits. Tbh they also should ditch the NIH attitude. Yes, sometimes Photoshop's behaviour or keybinds are more convoluted than GIMP's, but people have Photoshop's quirks ingrained and making the transition easier is what counts. Blender has an amazing 'industry keybinds' option.
- tim44 6y agoYeah I agree about the keybinds. With blender, something as simple as left clicking to select objects can make a huge impact learning and using software when you don't have to reset your brain constantly. It can be tough to have like 3 different sets of keys used to navigate different 3d viewports.
- Shared404 6y agoI also like the way that on first run Blender will let you select the keybindings that you want to use. That seems like a good compromise to me.
- progman32 6y agoFreeCAD also has several options for 3d navigation bindings. Really helped smooth the transition.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tim44 6y agoGood stuffs. As a kid, 3dstudiomax sent me a cease and desist. Today I understand why.
- 6y ago
- TooCreative 6y agoNo non-destructive adjustment layers ... People are waiting for non-destructive adjustment layers for over 10 years now. Does HN exist this long? Lets do a search... It does! 10 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2091318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2091318 9 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2890549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2890549 8 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4814360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4814360 7 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5912145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5912145 6 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8969088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8969088 5 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9932717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9932717 4 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12092173 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12092173 3 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15101108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15101108 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17926027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17926027 1 year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20422647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20422647 Today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25011401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25011401
- ddevault 6y agoGimp is a volunteer-run open source project. You ready to get cracking on that patch?
- asutekku 6y agoNon-destructive adjustment laters are pretty much must-have for a image editing software for it to be taken seriously. It’s something the GIMP devs should be focusing on, not something that a random person on the internet does on their free time. Especially considering it has been a well requested feature for over 10 years. Ps. you’re not going to get anyone to commit anything with that kind of message. You’re just driving people away from oss.
- cycloptic 6y agoMost of the current developers _are_ random people on the internet who decided to contribute to it in their free time. If you have noticed, repeatedly asking for a feature when it's already on the roadmap as a high priority item and has been there for some years also does not help the feature get implemented any faster.
- zeotroph 6y agoWhat is it with the simplified Gtk file dialogs? Whenever I use one I am instantly annoyed because I get the impression that some UI-concept from MacOS was badly copied, but is a mismatch for arguably more poweruser-centric Linux user base. Once I discovered that Ctrl-L can bring up the url/file path I found it at least usable, but still not pleasant. Am I using it wrong? Can I change the default system wide somehow? Is there a design document which can finally convince me that this is generally a good idea, just not for me? Also, some Gtk apps had/have tearable menus, a shame these went out of fashion. Is there something fundamentally wrong with that, too, or can this be enable globally for Gtk, and maybe even Qt apps?
- JaggedJax 6y agoThank you for the Ctrl+L trick! This has been killing me for ages.
- blibble 6y agoyou can change it system-wide... but there's a bug which means it constantly gets reset the most annoying thing about the dialogs is if you type a filename in: instead of selecting the file with that name it starts doing a recursive search... no-one has EVER wanted to do that
- jl6 6y agoThis is rapidly becoming GNOME’s most famous bug. The developers still claim it’s working as intended.
- apricot 6y agoGNOME suddenly changing things for the worse, breaking muscle memory and making previously easy things difficult or impossible, while tone-deaf developers intone the "it's not broken, your workflow's broken" mantra in the background, has become a regular thing. It's like living in hurricane country and accepting you'll need to replace the windows from time to time. I really wish they'd stop doing this, though.
- dheera 6y agoWhat is with this mess? flatpak remote-add --user flathub-beta https://flathub.org/beta-repo/flathub-beta.flatpakrepo flatpak make-current --user org.gimp.GIMP beta flatpak make-current --user org.gimp.GIMP stable Why isn't it just sudo apt-add-repository ppa:gimp/unstable sudo apt update && sudo apt install gimp ? Or: wget https://gimp.org/releases/gimp-2.99beta.deb sudo dpkg -i gimp-2.99beta.deb ?
- teddyfrozevelt 6y agoInstalling it through Flatpak here is actually fewer commands than your apt example. You just run this to add the repository, > flatpak remote-add --user flathub-beta https://flathub.org/beta-repo/flathub-beta.flatpakrepo https://flathub.org/beta-repo/flathub-beta.flatpakrepo Then this to install it > flatpak install --user flathub-beta org.gimp.GIMP The next two commands let you switch between the beta and stable branches, which is something apt can't do.
- ketzu 6y agoAs someone not as involved, it's hard to follow why it's a mess. The actual installation with flatpak also seems to use flatpak install --user flathub-beta org.gimp.GIMP and the make current is only for managing the active installation. From someone that has never used flatpak it doesn't seem more a mess than apt or the deb way in any way and also manages to have the unstable and stable version installed at the same time (which apt doesn't as far as I remember). Am I missing some hidden problem besides that it's not available in the manager of choice?
- yoz-y 6y agoI've been out of the loop for a while but I imagine this is because Flatpaks bundle all of the dependencies and thus you don't run a risk of the installation of one deb resulting in broken dependencies for other programs.
- nattaylor 6y agoI really hope someone with the right skills can step up and get the MacOS build sorted out.