8 ms·

This whole idea that being without a phone is somehow liberating — and just not using it is definitely not as pure and wholly amazing as being completely withou

by hnarn 6y ago

This whole idea that being without a phone is somehow liberating — and just not using it is definitely not as pure and wholly amazing as being completely without it — is to me a silly and predictable response to the very real drawbacks of high tech modern life. Phones have value. That’s why people use them. Pretending they don’t and that we’re all brainwashed doesn’t change that reality. Here’s an example: I want to take public transport to a grocery store. I walk out the door. I don’t have my phone. First of all, if I don’t check the opening hours of the store before leaving, I now have no idea. The whole trip may be for nothing. Secondly, when planning my trip, my phone would help me suggest what line and where to switch, if necessary. It would alert me in real time of any issues, again with alternate suggestions. When traveling: no music. No audio books. Just the organic, wonderful and inspiring sounds of the city. Not to mention all the wonderful people on public transport you’re aching to know better. When I get to the store, I may have forgotten my shopping list. And even if I brought it, I have no way of getting in contact with someone that may want to add something to it. If I find a new product I don’t recognize and I’m unsure of whether it’s overpriced, I can’t compare to any other vendor. I also can’t check reviews from other people. I’m sorry if I sound cynical, but sometimes I feel like the spread (but not necessarily the preaching) of this whole luddite idea of smartphones ruining us is mainly fueled by people young enough to have grown up with them being everywhere, because I’m in my mid 30s and I remember what life was like without smartphones, and for the most part, it sucked.

coldtea 6y ago
>Phones have value. That’s why people use them Now try the same line but with heroin, or fast food, or whatever people use to their detriment... Besides, anything that has value also has an opportunity cost, which can be much more important than the value inherent in the thing... >Here’s an example: I want to take public transport to a grocery store. I walk out the door. I don’t have my phone. First of all, if I don’t check the opening hours of the store before leaving, I now have no idea. The whole trip may be for nothing. Yeah, it's a wonder how people managed to live and visit the grocery store in the dark ages of the 90s and early 00s... All these people going out of their homes at 02:00am only to find the grocery store closed...
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  You’ve never got to a store only to realize they are closed on Mondays or something?
  - coldtea 6y ago
    Yes, but I've never considered it important enough to say "I'd better be saddled with a device that can be addictive, that I spend hours on end each day on, that everybody I known can harass me at any time, any where on, that keeps tabs on all kinds of things including my every movement -- lest I repeat this visited-a-closed-store blunder... I'm not saying that a smartphone is not immesely useful -- I use mine for notes, video, photos (including pro work), phonecalls (duh), messaging, and so on. I'm saying that "gives us things like grocery store times or gps routes" (or many combinations of such things) is hardly an argument for smartphones as "indispensable", nor a reason not to consider their, often serious, downsides (behavioral, cognitive, social, privacy, etc)
  - drdeadringer 6y ago
    If such an event has ruined your life, I wager that you have bigger or more systemic problems going on than not being able to buy a stick of butter from Cooper's Grocery on a particular day. The capacity of being flexible is valuable. Yes, having the world in your pocket is valuable when something jumps up and goes "boo". However, most people should not need to Google-search "what do I do after 'boo'?" every single time.
    - UncleMeat 6y ago
      Ruined my life? Of course not. Annoyed me? Yes. Having a product that enables me to avoid that annoyance is nice.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        Considered the opportunity cost? Or would any annoyance justify any solution, whatever the downsides?
altitudinous 6y ago
You don't need a phone for any of the activities you described. Stores are pretty much open business hours, or 24 hours, they follow the same pattern. Or just show up and it is closed. Go somewhere else. Public transport runs to a schedule. Just show up and transport will show up within n minutes anyway, whether you know the time or nor. Or just use the timetable at the station. Yes, no music, just your thoughts. but take a book if you want. Write down your shopping list on paper. All I have just described is why it is so liberating.
- hnarn 6y ago
  The entire point is that you don’t need a phone to do any of this, just like you don’t need a spike gun if you have a hammer when building a house. If you feel that liberates you, go ahead and do whatever you want, but when you’re preaching to others about how they’re somehow going against our innate human nature, that’s when I get a bit annoyed. Don’t you think it’s pretty obvious that this exact line of reasoning could be made against the use of books on public transport if we were discussing this in the 1800s? Why are you fine with distracting yourself with a book, but reading the news on a smartphone is somehow different?
  - altitudinous 6y ago
    You seem to be trying to describe the point of my own post to me, I don't get why you would do that. I know the point of my own post. As I have just written to someone else above - you are just proving the OP original article. Why not just try something different rather than pointlessly arguing about the intricacies of it all on the internet..
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I see nothing in that post that is explaining anything other than why you calling being without a smartphone as liberating as what others may call “I have free time to waste”. Now, you can argue that maybe I should stop and smell the flowers sometimes, but usually when I have to do something it is work and I would much rather get it done as quickly as possible with the tools I have at my disposal.
ramanujank 6y ago
This is a particularly non-issue as far as India goes. This applies to a lot of other places though. So, in the spirit of the original article, I buy it.
eMSF 6y ago
Why would you walk out the door before checking that the store is open, if the whole point of the excursion is to visit the store (and in this case, you don't have an idea when it is open)?
- copperx 6y ago
  Because there's value in just making the trip if you're stopping to smell the flowers.
alan_n 6y ago
Just want to second this. I live somewhere were having your phone out is dangerous so I'm forced to use it only when needed. The number one thing I use my phone for is checking bus routes (second is store times which can be very odd, especially with the pandemic). I know some routes off the top of my head but not the majority. Plus although I always plan where I'm going before hand so I know the streets (although many are missing signs), what time things are open, if the buses are actually working (apart from strikes, sometimes a bus line might be diverted due to construction/protests), often I end up going more places than I plan and end up needing to take a different bus than I had planned back. I mean if I get my phone stolen or something I'll still be fine, but I don't get how having to hunt down road signs and depending on others to tell you the right info can possible feel liberating? I have navigated the city before it's bus app was built and internet was reliable, and it was not fun. Plus recently I've had problems with my contacts and because I can't stand my full prescription in glasses I can't see far away so it's been even more liberating to have my phone. I can quickly glance at google maps (even without internet and just gps on) and see where I am. Extremely useful in buses where I'm too far to see the road signs at all. I would hate having to ask the driver all the time to drop me off at the right street.
gumby 6y ago
I think you’re misunderstanding the suggestion. The OP isn’t claiming the things you describe are dumb or wasteful or that you should never carry your phone. The suggestion is that sometimes doing without it can teach you interesting things, including about your phone. I’m an avid backpacker (>60 nights on the trail most years) and I experience the same phenomenon (I don’t mean the phone, which is just a deadweight in the country). I sometimes just do without some piece of equipment and find out I’m fine. You often don’t need a tent, even in the snow. It turns out less clutter makes much of the experience more enjoyable; you have fewer decisions to make and more “attention” to pay to other things which could be where you are or it could be something in your head you brought with you. It can also be a real PITN if, say, it’s raining and you foolishly don’t have shelter. Do I bring a tent? Often. But it’s ok if I don’t. And what is the phone but an infinitely large backpack full of clutter? Worse, much of that clutter is actively designed to distract you and imbue FOMO (suggesting new things precisely as you complete the old, ruining the cognitive desire for “completion”). Phones are great and I always carry mine around in town. But losing it would be inconvenient, not devastating.

by hnarn 6y ago

coldtea 6y ago

>Phones have value. That’s why people use them Now try the same line but with heroin, or fast food, or whatever people use to their detriment... Besides, anything that has value also has an opportunity cost, which can be much more important than the value inherent in the thing... >Here’s an example: I want to take public transport to a grocery store. I walk out the door. I don’t have my phone. First of all, if I don’t check the opening hours of the store before leaving, I now have no idea. The whole trip may be for nothing. Yeah, it's a wonder how people managed to live and visit the grocery store in the dark ages of the 90s and early 00s... All these people going out of their homes at 02:00am only to find the grocery store closed...

UncleMeat 6y ago
You’ve never got to a store only to realize they are closed on Mondays or something?
- coldtea 6y ago
  Yes, but I've never considered it important enough to say "I'd better be saddled with a device that can be addictive, that I spend hours on end each day on, that everybody I known can harass me at any time, any where on, that keeps tabs on all kinds of things including my every movement -- lest I repeat this visited-a-closed-store blunder... I'm not saying that a smartphone is not immesely useful -- I use mine for notes, video, photos (including pro work), phonecalls (duh), messaging, and so on. I'm saying that "gives us things like grocery store times or gps routes" (or many combinations of such things) is hardly an argument for smartphones as "indispensable", nor a reason not to consider their, often serious, downsides (behavioral, cognitive, social, privacy, etc)
- drdeadringer 6y ago
  If such an event has ruined your life, I wager that you have bigger or more systemic problems going on than not being able to buy a stick of butter from Cooper's Grocery on a particular day. The capacity of being flexible is valuable. Yes, having the world in your pocket is valuable when something jumps up and goes "boo". However, most people should not need to Google-search "what do I do after 'boo'?" every single time.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    Ruined my life? Of course not. Annoyed me? Yes. Having a product that enables me to avoid that annoyance is nice.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      Considered the opportunity cost? Or would any annoyance justify any solution, whatever the downsides?

altitudinous 6y ago

You don't need a phone for any of the activities you described. Stores are pretty much open business hours, or 24 hours, they follow the same pattern. Or just show up and it is closed. Go somewhere else. Public transport runs to a schedule. Just show up and transport will show up within n minutes anyway, whether you know the time or nor. Or just use the timetable at the station. Yes, no music, just your thoughts. but take a book if you want. Write down your shopping list on paper. All I have just described is why it is so liberating.

hnarn 6y ago
The entire point is that you don’t need a phone to do any of this, just like you don’t need a spike gun if you have a hammer when building a house. If you feel that liberates you, go ahead and do whatever you want, but when you’re preaching to others about how they’re somehow going against our innate human nature, that’s when I get a bit annoyed. Don’t you think it’s pretty obvious that this exact line of reasoning could be made against the use of books on public transport if we were discussing this in the 1800s? Why are you fine with distracting yourself with a book, but reading the news on a smartphone is somehow different?
- altitudinous 6y ago
  You seem to be trying to describe the point of my own post to me, I don't get why you would do that. I know the point of my own post. As I have just written to someone else above - you are just proving the OP original article. Why not just try something different rather than pointlessly arguing about the intricacies of it all on the internet..
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I see nothing in that post that is explaining anything other than why you calling being without a smartphone as liberating as what others may call “I have free time to waste”. Now, you can argue that maybe I should stop and smell the flowers sometimes, but usually when I have to do something it is work and I would much rather get it done as quickly as possible with the tools I have at my disposal.

ramanujank 6y ago

This is a particularly non-issue as far as India goes. This applies to a lot of other places though. So, in the spirit of the original article, I buy it.

eMSF 6y ago

Why would you walk out the door before checking that the store is open, if the whole point of the excursion is to visit the store (and in this case, you don't have an idea when it is open)?

copperx 6y ago
Because there's value in just making the trip if you're stopping to smell the flowers.

alan_n 6y ago

Just want to second this. I live somewhere were having your phone out is dangerous so I'm forced to use it only when needed. The number one thing I use my phone for is checking bus routes (second is store times which can be very odd, especially with the pandemic). I know some routes off the top of my head but not the majority. Plus although I always plan where I'm going before hand so I know the streets (although many are missing signs), what time things are open, if the buses are actually working (apart from strikes, sometimes a bus line might be diverted due to construction/protests), often I end up going more places than I plan and end up needing to take a different bus than I had planned back. I mean if I get my phone stolen or something I'll still be fine, but I don't get how having to hunt down road signs and depending on others to tell you the right info can possible feel liberating? I have navigated the city before it's bus app was built and internet was reliable, and it was not fun. Plus recently I've had problems with my contacts and because I can't stand my full prescription in glasses I can't see far away so it's been even more liberating to have my phone. I can quickly glance at google maps (even without internet and just gps on) and see where I am. Extremely useful in buses where I'm too far to see the road signs at all. I would hate having to ask the driver all the time to drop me off at the right street.

gumby 6y ago

I think you’re misunderstanding the suggestion. The OP isn’t claiming the things you describe are dumb or wasteful or that you should never carry your phone. The suggestion is that sometimes doing without it can teach you interesting things, including about your phone. I’m an avid backpacker (>60 nights on the trail most years) and I experience the same phenomenon (I don’t mean the phone, which is just a deadweight in the country). I sometimes just do without some piece of equipment and find out I’m fine. You often don’t need a tent, even in the snow. It turns out less clutter makes much of the experience more enjoyable; you have fewer decisions to make and more “attention” to pay to other things which could be where you are or it could be something in your head you brought with you. It can also be a real PITN if, say, it’s raining and you foolishly don’t have shelter. Do I bring a tent? Often. But it’s ok if I don’t. And what is the phone but an infinitely large backpack full of clutter? Worse, much of that clutter is actively designed to distract you and imbue FOMO (suggesting new things precisely as you complete the old, ruining the cognitive desire for “completion”). Phones are great and I always carry mine around in town. But losing it would be inconvenient, not devastating.