6 ms·

ESP8266 as Open Source Hardware

52 points by dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

emosenkis 6y ago
Shrug. This isn't an open source ESP8266 - it's an ESP8266 soldered onto an open source PCB. It doesn't have any wireless certifications so it's really only good for DIY unless you're planning to invest in getting the certifications, at which point you might as well work with the ESP8266 directly.
- naivedevops 6y ago
  Agreed. Better wait for BL602/BL604. Despite not being open hardware, at least they will have open ISA. https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/10/24/bl602-bl604-risc-v-wifi-bluetooth-5-0-le-soc-will-sell-at-esp8266-price-point/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/10/24/bl602-bl604-risc-v-w...
- stevekemp 6y ago
  Agreed. Flagged on that basis.
- marci 6y ago
  It's just a small title error from the person who submitted the link. Replacing "as" by "in" makes a more accurate. "ESP8266 in Open Source Hardware" It's an evaluation board, it's not meant to be used in production.
jbarberu 6y ago
Why would one get this over the ESP32? (EDIT: Just ordered my first ESP32, so honest question)
- taf2 6y ago
  I have to imagine cost since if I’m not mistaken the esp8266 is older? I recently have been doing a lot with esp32 via feather and my new favorite tinypico. I think you’ll enjoy the esp32!
- Jnr 6y ago
  ESP8266 costs ~0.90 EUR. ESP32 costs ~1.80 EUR. And dev boards with usb, voltage regulator, pinout, etc. cost ~1.6 EUR for ESP8266 and ~2.8 EUR for ESP32. It all depends on what code you plan running on the device. If you just need a basic micro-controller with wifi and bluetooth, esp8266 is cheaper.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Also the ESP8266 is smaller. Practically, there's no difference for hobbyist stuff, but personally I mostly tend to use an ESP8266 just because using an ESP32 when I don't need the extra power feels like a waste, somehow.
  - IshKebab 6y ago
    Cheaper by €1? Who cares? Nobody here is manufacturing tens of thousands of devices.
  - optimuspaul 6y ago
    esp8266 does not have bluetooth, the esp32 does and that is what makes it more more interesting.
- KaiserPro 6y ago
  I suspect there are two things: 1) cost, its about half the cost 2) power, the ESP32 eats more power when runnning than the esp.
- geokon 6y ago
  Cheaper and generally more mature ecosystem. I've found more things have been "solved" Also, Esp8266 has the wonderful Sming framework while ESP32 does not (or it's WIP) https://github.com/SmingHub/Sming/ https://github.com/SmingHub/Sming/ It's basically Arduino but instead of having the central infinite loop it's all callback based. So it feels more “proper” I guess. It's a bit closer to how you're supposed to program a mircocontrollers without Arduino. And it makes going back to Arduino feel clunky That said.. Maybe there is some equivalent for ESP32? I'm just not aware of it. You can do some other cool stuff with ESP32s. Like run Micropython and Javascript. You can also have wifi and related interrupts on one core and realtime stuff on another core (though I haven't exactly figured out how you'd set this up without using an RTOS)
  - elcritch 6y ago
    > That said.. Maybe there is some equivalent for ESP32? I'm just not aware of it. You can do some other cool stuff with ESP32s. Like run Micropython and Javascript. You can also have wifi and related interrupts on one core and realtime stuff on another core (though I haven't exactly figured out how you'd set this up without using an RTOS) To shamelessly plug my own project I've been working on to bring Nim to the ESP32: https://github.com/elcritch/nesper/ https://github.com/elcritch/nesper/ For an async http example see: https://github.com/elcritch/nesper/blob/master/esp-idf-examples/simplewifi/main/server.nim https://github.com/elcritch/nesper/blob/master/esp-idf-examp... Nim's async for networking is all there. ESP32's use a modified FreeRTOS with LwIP which Nim has OS level support for now. So Nim provides async http, json libraries, etc all in a about an extra 100kB of flash memory! IMHO, Nim has a nice Pythonic syntax but still lets you do low level real time code. With the ESP32's you can create "tasks" and use either events or data queues (see `rpcsocket_queue_mpack.nim` in Nesper). Caveat emptor, Nesper is a wrap of the native ESP32 libraries. There's still bugs in wrapping the various apis, but mostly simple ones. Also I'd like to setup async for interrupts...
marketingPro 6y ago
Well it seems I shouldn't use ESP8266 on my household Appliance I plan to sell. Anyone have a suggestion for an alternative? I was originally optimizing for cost, but now I think I want to prioritize a fast development cycle as the Appliance is going to be priced like a luxury.
- anujdeshpande 6y ago
  Use ESP32 along with ESP Rainmaker. Source: Used to work at Espressif :)
  - ducktective 6y ago
    What's the debug story for ESP8266 and ESP32 chips?
- hackshack 6y ago
  Nordic’s pretty good. It’s not $5/module - closer to $15 - but is very good from a low-level embedded perspective. Their toolchain is first-rate and may have been validated by your target audience.
  - gspr 6y ago
    I wish I could be enthusiastic about Nordic, but it's impossible with their extremely non-free SDK license: https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF5_SDK/nRF5_SDK_v12.x.x/doc/12.3.0/nRF5_Nordic_license.txt https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF5_SDK/nRF5_SDK_v12.x.x/d... The first three clauses are fine, essentially BSD-3-clause. Clauses 4 and 5 make it extremely unfriendly to free(-as-in-freedom) projects though. I don't even understand how clause 5 benefits them. Espressif's devices are definitely not open in any sense of the word, but at least their SDK is under a bog-standard Apache license. Same goes for most of the STM SDK.
    - an_d_rew 6y ago
      Nordic’s Middleware is available under a standard BSD 3-clause license. https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-and-tools/Development-Tools/nRF-MDK/Download https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-and-tools/Development-To... Their middleware and DRIVER library is first rate, also BSD: https://github.com/NordicSemiconductor/nrfx/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/NordicSemiconductor/nrfx/blob/master/LICE... They are a first-tier active founding member and supporter of the Zephyr RTOS project by the Linux Foundation. They’ve partnered with Segger for free use of Segger’s embedded studio for Nordic chips. If a fraction of other companies did a fraction of THAT, Open Source would be soooo far ahead!
gbraad 6y ago
Not sure what this is supposed to be, but that looks like a generic esp8266 relay board with Olimex branding, pushed as being 'open source hardware' ? Shrug
- gh02t 6y ago
  OP's linked to the relay board carrier Olimex makes but that is not really the right one, they probably meant to link this: https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP8266/MOD-WIFI-ESP8266-DEV/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP8266/MOD-WIFI-ESP8266... It's an open source hardware ESP8266 module by Olimex, roughly comparable to modules like the ESP-12. The ESP8266 chip itself is obviously not open source but the module surrounding it is. But yeah I agree, these are pretty meh... I've actually used one of these Olimex modules and there's nothing special about them. IMO, being OSH doesn't really do all that much for you in this case, especially when the actual chip isn't also OSH, and these modules don't even have FCC pre-cert. They've also been around for a long time, from what I remember they were one of the earliest crop of modules with most/all of the pins of the ESP8266 broken out that became available.
malouf-erfan 6y ago
This board might be a better deal for beginners, it is also open source: https://github.com/MaloufSleep/ME-ESP8266 https://github.com/MaloufSleep/ME-ESP8266
- LeifCarrotson 6y ago
  Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24509222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24509222 I think it's a better board for both beginners and advanced users. Some differences: (0) The Olimex board files are in Autodesk's Eagle schematic editor, which is not free software, and Autodesk keeps making it harder to get and to use. Yours is built in KiCad, which is much more OSHW friendly. (1) USB connector and integrated CH340 RS232 driver. The Olimex requires you to configure an external serial device to program it. (2) The genuine Omron relay, neither board has great high-voltage isolation, but I'd be a lot more trusting of Omron than the import relay that's not even available at any of the main US/EU distributors. (3) 5V TTL UART with Max232 driver - the Olimex has 3.3V UART, which is available, and is usually going to be functional with a 5V input, but most of the cheap USB-RS232 drivers and other sensors and devices you'd connect to this send 5V by default. (4) 16 MB SPI Flash vs 2 MB (aka 128 Mb vs 16 Mb). Modern web pages are resource heavy! (5) Micro-USB and screw terminals vs barrel jack for 5V input (or 0.1" pin header) - I have USB chargers up to my ears, no thanks to Apple, but not as many barrel jack connectors. (6) IR sender/receiver and general-purpose red and green T1 LEDs - the Olimex has a single red 0603 SMD power LED and a green activity LED on the TX pin, but the Malouf board has MOSFET-driven large indicators on the GPIO and has IR functionality built-in. (7) Single-board vs daughtercard - The Olimex is two boards in one, a slightly weird choice. (8) Availability - The Malouf board is available on Amazon Prime, the Olimex ships from Turkey for $15 via DHL. With shipping, the Olimex is more expensive; not that it really matters at this price point - users will be spending time worth far more than the cost of the board to get it to do anything interesting. Disclaimer: I'm a customer of the Malouf board, bought it after seeing the previous discussion a month ago and am a happy customer. I'm still at the "Hello World" stage, flicking the relay and LEDs on and off with a socket connection; I'm working on assembling a 3D printer to control/adjust remotely with the board.
  - 6y ago
amelius 6y ago
What I wonder about, since this is a wireless chip developed by a Chinese design firm: if the US will deny Huawei access to the US market for security reasons, shouldn't they also be critical of any other Chinese chip with transmit capability (which may cause havoc in the form of wireless DoS attacks and/or eavesdropping)?
- dheera 6y ago
  Meh. There might be NSA backdoors in Qualcomm chips.
elheffe80 6y ago
I was intrigued by the headline, but then I went to the site and saw spelling error after spelling error. Nope, I can't do it. Spell check shouldn't be that hard.
- ldiracdelta 6y ago
  I love Olimex! They're based out of Bulgaria, so English is probably not their first language. Their ESP32 EVB board is often my first stop dev-board for the Arduino platform https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP32/ESP32-EVB/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP32/ESP32-EVB/open-sou... Two 10 amp relays. Onboard ethernet. SD card slot. Wifi and bluetooth. It is an amazing board. Yeah the ESP32 isn't open source, but they have github for all the rest. Boards layouts, software.
  - dheera 6y ago
    Yep, looks like a seriously awesome board. My go-to is usually the TinyPICO which doesn't have quite as much, but sure packs a punch for its size: https://www.tinypico.com/ https://www.tinypico.com/
ithkuil 6y ago
I wish the 8266 was opensource... or at least documented! A few years ago I spent some time trying to reverse engineer the actual parameters for xtensa paremetric CPU they use (in order to implement a debugger and other low level things)
solarkraft 6y ago
Yay for clickbait. Shame on me for thinking the content would actually be what the title implies.

52 points by dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

Shrug. This isn't an open source ESP8266 - it's an ESP8266 soldered onto an open source PCB. It doesn't have any wireless certifications so it's really only good for DIY unless you're planning to invest in getting the certifications, at which point you might as well work with the ESP8266 directly.

naivedevops 6y ago
Agreed. Better wait for BL602/BL604. Despite not being open hardware, at least they will have open ISA. https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/10/24/bl602-bl604-risc-v-wifi-bluetooth-5-0-le-soc-will-sell-at-esp8266-price-point/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/10/24/bl602-bl604-risc-v-w...
stevekemp 6y ago
Agreed. Flagged on that basis.
marci 6y ago
It's just a small title error from the person who submitted the link. Replacing "as" by "in" makes a more accurate. "ESP8266 in Open Source Hardware" It's an evaluation board, it's not meant to be used in production.

jbarberu 6y ago

Why would one get this over the ESP32? (EDIT: Just ordered my first ESP32, so honest question)

taf2 6y ago
I have to imagine cost since if I’m not mistaken the esp8266 is older? I recently have been doing a lot with esp32 via feather and my new favorite tinypico. I think you’ll enjoy the esp32!
Jnr 6y ago
ESP8266 costs ~0.90 EUR. ESP32 costs ~1.80 EUR. And dev boards with usb, voltage regulator, pinout, etc. cost ~1.6 EUR for ESP8266 and ~2.8 EUR for ESP32. It all depends on what code you plan running on the device. If you just need a basic micro-controller with wifi and bluetooth, esp8266 is cheaper.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  Also the ESP8266 is smaller. Practically, there's no difference for hobbyist stuff, but personally I mostly tend to use an ESP8266 just because using an ESP32 when I don't need the extra power feels like a waste, somehow.
- IshKebab 6y ago
  Cheaper by €1? Who cares? Nobody here is manufacturing tens of thousands of devices.
- optimuspaul 6y ago
  esp8266 does not have bluetooth, the esp32 does and that is what makes it more more interesting.
KaiserPro 6y ago
I suspect there are two things: 1) cost, its about half the cost 2) power, the ESP32 eats more power when runnning than the esp.
geokon 6y ago
Cheaper and generally more mature ecosystem. I've found more things have been "solved" Also, Esp8266 has the wonderful Sming framework while ESP32 does not (or it's WIP) https://github.com/SmingHub/Sming/ https://github.com/SmingHub/Sming/ It's basically Arduino but instead of having the central infinite loop it's all callback based. So it feels more “proper” I guess. It's a bit closer to how you're supposed to program a mircocontrollers without Arduino. And it makes going back to Arduino feel clunky That said.. Maybe there is some equivalent for ESP32? I'm just not aware of it. You can do some other cool stuff with ESP32s. Like run Micropython and Javascript. You can also have wifi and related interrupts on one core and realtime stuff on another core (though I haven't exactly figured out how you'd set this up without using an RTOS)
- elcritch 6y ago
  > That said.. Maybe there is some equivalent for ESP32? I'm just not aware of it. You can do some other cool stuff with ESP32s. Like run Micropython and Javascript. You can also have wifi and related interrupts on one core and realtime stuff on another core (though I haven't exactly figured out how you'd set this up without using an RTOS) To shamelessly plug my own project I've been working on to bring Nim to the ESP32: https://github.com/elcritch/nesper/ https://github.com/elcritch/nesper/ For an async http example see: https://github.com/elcritch/nesper/blob/master/esp-idf-examples/simplewifi/main/server.nim https://github.com/elcritch/nesper/blob/master/esp-idf-examp... Nim's async for networking is all there. ESP32's use a modified FreeRTOS with LwIP which Nim has OS level support for now. So Nim provides async http, json libraries, etc all in a about an extra 100kB of flash memory! IMHO, Nim has a nice Pythonic syntax but still lets you do low level real time code. With the ESP32's you can create "tasks" and use either events or data queues (see `rpcsocket_queue_mpack.nim` in Nesper). Caveat emptor, Nesper is a wrap of the native ESP32 libraries. There's still bugs in wrapping the various apis, but mostly simple ones. Also I'd like to setup async for interrupts...

marketingPro 6y ago

Well it seems I shouldn't use ESP8266 on my household Appliance I plan to sell. Anyone have a suggestion for an alternative? I was originally optimizing for cost, but now I think I want to prioritize a fast development cycle as the Appliance is going to be priced like a luxury.

anujdeshpande 6y ago
Use ESP32 along with ESP Rainmaker. Source: Used to work at Espressif :)
- ducktective 6y ago
  What's the debug story for ESP8266 and ESP32 chips?
hackshack 6y ago
Nordic’s pretty good. It’s not $5/module - closer to $15 - but is very good from a low-level embedded perspective. Their toolchain is first-rate and may have been validated by your target audience.
- gspr 6y ago
  I wish I could be enthusiastic about Nordic, but it's impossible with their extremely non-free SDK license: https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF5_SDK/nRF5_SDK_v12.x.x/doc/12.3.0/nRF5_Nordic_license.txt https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF5_SDK/nRF5_SDK_v12.x.x/d... The first three clauses are fine, essentially BSD-3-clause. Clauses 4 and 5 make it extremely unfriendly to free(-as-in-freedom) projects though. I don't even understand how clause 5 benefits them. Espressif's devices are definitely not open in any sense of the word, but at least their SDK is under a bog-standard Apache license. Same goes for most of the STM SDK.
  - an_d_rew 6y ago
    Nordic’s Middleware is available under a standard BSD 3-clause license. https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-and-tools/Development-Tools/nRF-MDK/Download https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-and-tools/Development-To... Their middleware and DRIVER library is first rate, also BSD: https://github.com/NordicSemiconductor/nrfx/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/NordicSemiconductor/nrfx/blob/master/LICE... They are a first-tier active founding member and supporter of the Zephyr RTOS project by the Linux Foundation. They’ve partnered with Segger for free use of Segger’s embedded studio for Nordic chips. If a fraction of other companies did a fraction of THAT, Open Source would be soooo far ahead!

gbraad 6y ago

Not sure what this is supposed to be, but that looks like a generic esp8266 relay board with Olimex branding, pushed as being 'open source hardware' ? Shrug

gh02t 6y ago
OP's linked to the relay board carrier Olimex makes but that is not really the right one, they probably meant to link this: https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP8266/MOD-WIFI-ESP8266-DEV/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP8266/MOD-WIFI-ESP8266... It's an open source hardware ESP8266 module by Olimex, roughly comparable to modules like the ESP-12. The ESP8266 chip itself is obviously not open source but the module surrounding it is. But yeah I agree, these are pretty meh... I've actually used one of these Olimex modules and there's nothing special about them. IMO, being OSH doesn't really do all that much for you in this case, especially when the actual chip isn't also OSH, and these modules don't even have FCC pre-cert. They've also been around for a long time, from what I remember they were one of the earliest crop of modules with most/all of the pins of the ESP8266 broken out that became available.

malouf-erfan 6y ago

This board might be a better deal for beginners, it is also open source: https://github.com/MaloufSleep/ME-ESP8266 https://github.com/MaloufSleep/ME-ESP8266

LeifCarrotson 6y ago
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24509222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24509222 I think it's a better board for both beginners and advanced users. Some differences: (0) The Olimex board files are in Autodesk's Eagle schematic editor, which is not free software, and Autodesk keeps making it harder to get and to use. Yours is built in KiCad, which is much more OSHW friendly. (1) USB connector and integrated CH340 RS232 driver. The Olimex requires you to configure an external serial device to program it. (2) The genuine Omron relay, neither board has great high-voltage isolation, but I'd be a lot more trusting of Omron than the import relay that's not even available at any of the main US/EU distributors. (3) 5V TTL UART with Max232 driver - the Olimex has 3.3V UART, which is available, and is usually going to be functional with a 5V input, but most of the cheap USB-RS232 drivers and other sensors and devices you'd connect to this send 5V by default. (4) 16 MB SPI Flash vs 2 MB (aka 128 Mb vs 16 Mb). Modern web pages are resource heavy! (5) Micro-USB and screw terminals vs barrel jack for 5V input (or 0.1" pin header) - I have USB chargers up to my ears, no thanks to Apple, but not as many barrel jack connectors. (6) IR sender/receiver and general-purpose red and green T1 LEDs - the Olimex has a single red 0603 SMD power LED and a green activity LED on the TX pin, but the Malouf board has MOSFET-driven large indicators on the GPIO and has IR functionality built-in. (7) Single-board vs daughtercard - The Olimex is two boards in one, a slightly weird choice. (8) Availability - The Malouf board is available on Amazon Prime, the Olimex ships from Turkey for $15 via DHL. With shipping, the Olimex is more expensive; not that it really matters at this price point - users will be spending time worth far more than the cost of the board to get it to do anything interesting. Disclaimer: I'm a customer of the Malouf board, bought it after seeing the previous discussion a month ago and am a happy customer. I'm still at the "Hello World" stage, flicking the relay and LEDs on and off with a socket connection; I'm working on assembling a 3D printer to control/adjust remotely with the board.
- 6y ago

amelius 6y ago

What I wonder about, since this is a wireless chip developed by a Chinese design firm: if the US will deny Huawei access to the US market for security reasons, shouldn't they also be critical of any other Chinese chip with transmit capability (which may cause havoc in the form of wireless DoS attacks and/or eavesdropping)?

dheera 6y ago
Meh. There might be NSA backdoors in Qualcomm chips.

elheffe80 6y ago

I was intrigued by the headline, but then I went to the site and saw spelling error after spelling error. Nope, I can't do it. Spell check shouldn't be that hard.

ldiracdelta 6y ago
I love Olimex! They're based out of Bulgaria, so English is probably not their first language. Their ESP32 EVB board is often my first stop dev-board for the Arduino platform https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP32/ESP32-EVB/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP32/ESP32-EVB/open-sou... Two 10 amp relays. Onboard ethernet. SD card slot. Wifi and bluetooth. It is an amazing board. Yeah the ESP32 isn't open source, but they have github for all the rest. Boards layouts, software.
- dheera 6y ago
  Yep, looks like a seriously awesome board. My go-to is usually the TinyPICO which doesn't have quite as much, but sure packs a punch for its size: https://www.tinypico.com/ https://www.tinypico.com/

ithkuil 6y ago

I wish the 8266 was opensource... or at least documented! A few years ago I spent some time trying to reverse engineer the actual parameters for xtensa paremetric CPU they use (in order to implement a debugger and other low level things)

solarkraft 6y ago

Yay for clickbait. Shame on me for thinking the content would actually be what the title implies.