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> First, most recruiters don’t care about your personal projects or how many meetups you went during the... Why are you trying to impress recruiters? I mean, t

• kingnothing 6y ago
  At any company of any decent size, your resume isn't going to get to the hiring manager if it doesn't get through the recruiter. The CEO of any large tech company is never going to meet you, much less see your resume.
  • ch_123 6y ago
    I know quite a few hiring managers who will search Linkedin directly, and reach out to candidates themselves. This, for example, was how I was hired into my current employer (which is a company with over a thousand people)
    • isoskeles 6y ago
      This might be the case, but recruiters and sourcers can and do sometimes reach out with the first message on behalf of the hiring manager. It looks the same to the candidate.
  • sgtnoodle 6y ago
    Not necessarily. Elon Musk stopped personally interviewing every vetted candidate about a week before I interviewed at SpaceX. I had to write him a short essay instead. When I started, there were about 1000 employees. Also, if you do get hired and work on something important, it's pretty likely you'll meet the CEO at some point, even in a company with many tens of thousands of people.
• vbezhenar 6y ago
  How many people are hired through standard recruitment process and how many people are hired by impressed CEO?
  • polote 6y ago
    How many developers tried to impress a CEO and how many went through the recruitment process? There are actually plenty of examples of people having landed a job thanks to a very good cover letter or something similar
  • tolbish 6y ago
    That is directly proportional to the size of the company.
    • robocat 6y ago
      Inversely proportional not directly proportional? Nitpick, I know what you mean, but... https://byjus.com/maths/inversely-proportional https://byjus.com/maths/inversely-proportional
      • shard 6y ago
        The bigger the company the more its employees are hired through the standard recruitment process -- is that not directly proportional?
  • dvt 6y ago
    I guess I'm a fan of the old adage: "Dress for the job you want."
    • Aeolun 6y ago
      Isn’t everyone always supposed to show up to an interview in a suit anyway? I guess maybe that’s counterproductive for a job as garbageman, but...
      • 6y ago
• jonathankoren 6y ago
  As a hiring manager, I never cared about side projects, or Stack Overflow or Kaggle scores. The most a side project github link would tell me if it was big or not. That’s it. I’m not going to go through and read a bunch of random code by myself, when I can just ask a couple of questions, and get the same information quicker. They are just too many resumes to read. Seriously, all side projects tell me is that you spend your free time coding, instead of hiking, or some other hobby.
  • dvt 6y ago
    Going to throw a bit of shade here, but there's a lot of irony in thinking that "hiking" is some exciting hobby while denigrating people building stuff in their spare time.
    • hobs 6y ago
      It's not saying its exciting, its that its equally boring.
    • triyambakam 6y ago
      I don't think the parent poster is giving any judgement to how people spend their time, only qualifying how.
    • actuator 6y ago
      I don't think he is denigrating it. He probably phrased it badly, but he meant you did side projects like a hobby just as well you might have done hiking in that time.
      • makapuf 6y ago
        Except that some side projects have value. The fact that you do the show useful traits- not all that you should consider hiring and not sufficient but useful. Not agreeing they have more value than hiking is wrong. I know several side projects which did have value and shown at least that their holders were interesting to hear.
      • 6y ago
• DataSciGuy_401 6y ago
  This is a great observation that is relevant for everyone who will serendipitously bump into the CEO of the company that makes the product on top of which their side project is built. Everyone else needs to be screened by a recruiter, though.
• chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Why are you trying to impress recruiters? I don't know whether this is a flippant answer... but to get a job so they can eat.
  • redisman 6y ago
    Everyone should just do “x very specific thing that happened to work for me”
    • chrisseaton 6y ago
      If you can't impress a recruiter, you are going to struggle to get a job at most companies. That's the starting point. It's great to think about what to do beyond then... but if you can't get past the starting point you're going to fail.
      • kyawzazaw 6y ago
        I think the parent comment to yours was being sarcastic to the very top comment.
• actuator 6y ago
  > I mean, the entire point of the post is wrong, but impressing recruiters is downright stupid. Let's be frank: recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem pole, lowest-common-denominator bottom-feeders. No matter how we feel, the process still goes through recruiters. In a company I used to work for, we built a way where we removed the company and uni name to remove biases from recruiters. Most recruiters flat out refused to use it and trust us because they considered that a very important signal. The decision is not upto just developers. > I heard a fun anecdote of Evan Spiegel attending an LA hackathon maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Some nerdy engineer showed him that he figured out how to get around Snapchat's spam filter. Spiegel offered him a job on the spot. I am sure we will all have our anecdotal examples like this and I am not against side projects. I agree with the post author that side projects are great, but don't expect them to count towards your next job. If they do, then great.
  • curiousllama 6y ago
    > the process still goes through recruiters Does it? Idk, maybe it’s because I’m not a SV SWE, but I’ve found all my jobs through my network.
    • jrumbut 6y ago
      Yeah I would split the issue raised in this post along two axes. The first is junior vs senior positions. For a junior position a half-baked github project or a little meetup presentation does wonders for you. At the senior level unless you did something incredible or highly relevant in your side-projects no one cares, it can even be a negative. The other is how are you getting the job. Are you sending in your resume through a jobs site or are you calling your old friend the startup CTO to see if you can help out? Side-projects, failed startups, and networking will make the latter strategy easier for you but won't help much with the former. Looking for a senior role through an impersonal application process depends very heavily on your primary, full-time employment track record. Otherwise I think there is still real value in developing along other lines.
      • westoncb 6y ago
• untog 6y ago
  I feel like this is one of those moments that shouts “Hacker News is not typical”. A lot of people are employed through recruiters, including for Facebook, Google and the rest! Aiming to impress the CEO is all very well, but it’s not common.
  • rc-1140 6y ago
    This comment should really be more towards the top of the chain so more people are aware that the grandparent comment is one of those "HN is atypical" moments. Many HN users like the grandparent are very disconnected from the reality that exists for everyone else, where plenty of people have to swim and trudge through the hellscape of recruiters who don't know or care that LINQ is a feature in C# and not a separate language but who will ultimately decide whether or not you're qualified. They have to be appeased like everyone else if the applicant doesn't have the luxury of an extended network of people they can casually ping and go "hey pal i'm back on the market hook me up :)"
  • confidantlake 6y ago
    Being in tech, I am friends/acquaintances with several people that work for both Google and Facebook. I also interviewed with both. In both cases, it was because an in house recruiter reached out to me on linkedin, not because I had some inside connection. At the start up I interned at during the beginning of my career, I got the interview and the job because I knew one of the developers. Every other job has been bog standard: apply , talk to recruiter, do phone screen, do onsite.
• helaoban 6y ago
  My sister is a recruiter. I’ll be sure to tell her that you think she’s a bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lowest-common-denominator bottom-feeder. That’ll brighten up her day. And when she doesn’t take it to heart, I’ll be sure to add a ‘Let’s be frank...’.
  • krisroadruck 6y ago
    Two things. First the "I know / am related to / am married to group" so you can't have a negative opinion about group thing is super cringe. I'm also pretty sure it's one of the logical fallacies. To put into perspective here is a rather extreme example: "My cousins an axe murderer, I'll be sure to tell him you think axe murders are bad, that'll brighten up his day". See how me saying I'm related to an axe murder doesn't actually change your opinion on axe murderers at all? Secondly, Bottom of the Totem Pole is actually the revered position[1]. Bit of an amusing cultural knowledge oversight on the OPs side ;-) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totem_pole#Meaning_and_purpose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totem_pole#Meaning_and_purpose
    • dvt 6y ago
      > Secondly, Bottom of the Totem Pole is actually the revered position[1]. Bit of an amusing cultural knowledge oversight on the OPs side ;-) Hah, this is super interesting. I'm almost certain that I heard or read the "bottom-of-the-totem-pole" saying before, but you're totally right that I may have reversed it!
    • helaoban 6y ago
      I disagree. I think your analogy is flawed: OP disparages people in my sister's line of work as "bottom-feeders", which is just a more euphemistic, if not cowardly, way of saying 'parasite', or 'scum'. My point is to draw attention to the decent people who work as recruiters (I'm implicitly holding my sister here as the archetype of a good person) and expose the original insult as unwarranted. An axe murderer is clearly someone who is indefensible, so could never be invoked as a positive example in argument with a statement like "Axe-murders are the worst people ever!" Also, an 'axe murderer' is a caricature of a real murderer, used in comedy, horror films etc..., and not a honest counterexample to my sister. But I digress..., thanks for the note on Totem Poles, I was unaware!
• sdenton4 6y ago
  I mean, the REAL truth is that I don't do side projects to impress recruiters... I do them because of my intellectual curiosity. That said, they HAVE helped me make a pretty successful career shift.
  • alkonaut 6y ago
    This. Imagine the mental toll of working a full time job but then doing "side projects" you don't love doing, to further your career? I can't even imagine how soul crushing that must be.
• jsmith12673 6y ago
  > recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lowest-common-denominator, bottom-feeders Recruiters are just people just doing their jobs. It's a shame that you've labelled a diverse group of people so heavy-handedly.
  • dvt 6y ago
    Oh come on. Even as engineers, it's important not to have delusions of grandeur: we're replaceable cogs in an infinite machine. Unless you're engineer #2 or work as a VP or a part of the C-suite, you truly don't really matter to the company. Thinking otherwise will only lead to heartbreak.
    • jsmith12673 6y ago
      I'd argue that even as engineer 2, or VP of whatever, you're still replaceable. Outside whatever thin veil of prestige your job offers you, the larger world couldn't care less about what you do or what you make.
    • rimliu 6y ago
      Yes. But the supply of the cogs is limited, and to replace one you need to stop the machine. Even after the replacement you are not sure you put the right cog in. Cogs being replaceable does not mean that replacing them is costless.
• WikipediasBad 6y ago
  I ran that hackathon. Can confirm it happened in 2015. LA Hacks at UCLA, Evan was the keynote speaker and stayed around to talk to hackers and builders after his speech. Snapchat, as a company, was at its hottest peak in 2015. Very cool event.
• sillysaurusx 6y ago
  impressing recruiters is downright stupid. Let's be frank: recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lowest-common-denominator, bottom-feeders. My friend, this isn't personal, but a fact: you're privileged. I sense you've never been in a position where you have $3,000 in the bank, your wife is depending on you to get through college, and you have to get a job or you lose your apartment. Out here dropping stories about Evan Spiegel; gimme a break. Most people don't know any CEOs, PMs, or hiring managers. The funny part is, I agree with your premise. You are indeed presenting the best way of opening doors. It's worked for me, and has opened many doors. But only when I was in a better position. Till then, it was one of the worst things I could have done. Focusing on playing the hiring game would have put me in a much stronger position. The comment you made is slightly out of touch. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think you'll maybe look back on it in 10 years or so with a wince. In the situation I described above, where you absolutely need that job, all the people you mention have a good chance of forgetting about you due to day-to-day politics. Guess who won't? That recruiter. Because they get a cut of your salary.
  • dvt 6y ago
    > My friend, this isn't personal, but a fact: you're privileged. Oh man, only if you truly knew how off-base this is :) My parents moved to the US with $2000, two kids (I was 11), and two carry-ons. But I'm not here to compete in the Victim Olympics. > Most people don't know any CEOs, PMs, or hiring managers. Good thing attending a hackathon is free. Good thing you can interact with literal SV royalty here on HN for free. Good thing you can contribute to famous OSS projects with minimal investment... > In the situation I described above, where you absolutely need that job, all the people you mention have a good chance of forgetting about you due to day-to-day politics. Guess who won't? That recruiter. Because they get a cut of your salary. Yeah, I disagree with this. I've been "forgotten about" and "ghosted" by more recruiters than I can remember. Not to mention that half the time my area of expertise wasn't even lined up with what they were looking for, and as soon as they hear about a potential pivot (front end to back end, engineering to product management, etc.) they jump ship. But people I've impressed (old bosses, old PMs, people I met through hackathons, obviously old founding partners) are always willing to come up to bat.
• werber 6y ago
  I have had great recruiters help me throughout my career. I didn't go into those relationships thinking of my career prospects but just letting someone buy me a drink or a meal and to chat and get to know them. Obviously they're trying to make money off your skills, but, a lot of them are really cool people just trying to get by and will look out for you if you let your guard down. Interviews are interviews, but meeting a recruiter is a first date
• eli_gottlieb 6y ago
  >Why are you trying to impress recruiters? I mean, the entire point of the post is wrong, but impressing recruiters is downright stupid. Let's be frank: recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lowest-common-denominator, bottom-feeders. Yeah, they are. They're also how most people find jobs before we reach the career stage of being able to call a friend who knows a guy who works at a place.
• fossuser 6y ago
  Not only this, but the premise that working on your job will impress recruiters is just wrong. There's a pretty simple flow chart for getting hired at a bay area company: 1. Go to MIT, Stanford, Cal, an Ivy, or CalTech and make sure you have linked in. 2. If 1 isn't possible then make a friend who works where you want to work and get a referral. 3. Cram leetcode That's basically it. Don't give up doing side projects and things you actually enjoy because that's how you learn. I think you're also overly harsh on recruiters (they're not 'bottom-feeders'), they're friendly and can help you out - but they're just looking in a very narrow subset. Basically the graduates from those schools and people already employed at FAANGs.
  • chris11 6y ago
    Working at a good company can also help out. MS/Facebook/Amazon/Google all have reputations for a decent hiring bar and need to recruit a lot of engineers. There are other companies that have decent reputations and are less selective about interviewing.
    • Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      Honestly, if you have a FAANG on your CV you're pretty much set, especially outside of SF (e.g. every other tech hub in Europe). Senior developer / CTO will be the kind of job offers you'll get, and recruiters will be all over you. Disclaimer: I don't have a FAANG on my CV.
• manigandham 6y ago
  There's a massive gap between terrible spammy recruiters and impressing a hot startup's CEO directly. Also the higher your position the less side projects matter because it's your main job responsibilities and performance that's in focus, not what you do on your own time.
• KKKKkkkk1 6y ago
  The author is a native French speaker. Based on context, I'm pretty sure he's using the word recruiter to mean a company that's recruiting and not the HR individual that funnels resumes to hiring managers.
• humbleMouse 6y ago
  Recruiters are not bottom of the barrel. How is this the top voted comment? Where do I even start here!
• rco8786 6y ago
  Yea dawg this is a horrible take. Most jobs go through recruiters, not chance impressions of CEOs. This reads like an overly pumped up alpha macho business guru telling his disciples how to "crush it".
• kyawzazaw 6y ago
  The issue is how else are you gonna get the attention of those people without going through a recruiter? Some, like you said, maybe able to do it. Some might have referrals. But for a lot of people, recruiters reaching out or applying through a portal is the start of many new positions.
• ponker 6y ago
  What percent of Snapchat engineers got hired by impressing Evan Spiegel.
• user5994461 6y ago
  Oh major cultural misunderstanding here. Assuming he's in France, by "recruiter" he means company recruiters / HR. Your CV and first phone interview always go to a recruiter at the company, that's the first person you have to talk to (and impress) to have a shot at any job. American might understand recruiter as an external agency, there's no such thing in tech in France. There's no CEO/CTO either, they are sitting idle out of sight collecting money never interacting with the company or any employee.
  • langitbiru 6y ago
    "There's no CEO/CTO either, they are sitting idle out of sight collecting money never interacting with the company or any employee." -> Could you elaborate this, please?
    • user5994461 6y ago
      In the US startup world, CEO/CTO are those who built the company from scratch up, growing the company and selecting the first hundred employees up to where it is today (billions of dollars with unicorns). It's a symbol, in many ways, more than can be described in a sentence. In large US companies, they're more a public figure and who negotiate large contracts in person and send regular emails to employees telling them they are the greatest company and the greatest employees in the world. In French companies. CEO/CTO are basically absent, they don't exist and don't send any communication. You can ask some French workers who are the executives of their company and they probably have no idea. The startup scene being pretty weak with no unicorn, there isn't any example you could quote either, there isn't a French Zuckerberg or Elon. If you wonder who's there for real, there's a bunch of rich folks who sponsor one another to board and executive seats of the 100 largest companies and that's about it.
      • langitbiru 6y ago
        Interesting.... I just want to say there is at least one unicorn in France, BlaBlaCar. Granted, it's not as big as FB. But unicorn nevertheless.
• caffeine 6y ago
  I think the author used the term recruiter to mean "person who is recruiting" - so I think your comment is sort of agreeing with the OP.