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Today’s Webcams Are Boring, So I Brought Back a Classic
- endgame 6y ago> To keep reading this story, create a free account. Nah.
- ketamine__ 6y agoCan anyone make a convincing case for having a good webcam in the era of zoom? No one is going to see a crisp image.
- ed25519FUUU 6y agoA better investment will be in lighting. Good lighting makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the image.
- exclusiv 6y agoI'm reusing an old Sony 4k handycam with an hdmi to usb c capture card and it looks way better than most. The larger sensor helps a ton.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- dheera 6y agoYou could always use something other than Zoom. I often use my own barebones WebRTC thingy for 1:1 meetings and get crisp video.
- jethro_tell 6y agoIs this something you've built yourself or is this an open project. I'm looking for something like this if you can give more detail.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tony8000 6y agoMaybe this? https://www.getwatercooler.io/ https://www.getwatercooler.io/
- spiffytech 6y agoThe post-covid internet is rife with stories where people discover their classmate/coworker is a Twitch streamer because the person pops onto Zoom with high-quality lighting and camera and their picture quality is so glorious that everyone else's looks like a fuzzy classic film by comparison. Most people's Zoom video is poor quality because it's "garbage in, garbage out". Barely-passable camera, and lighting that's actively hostile to picture quality, because nobody cares as long as your face is more or less visible.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago> where people discover their classmate/coworker is a Twitch streamer Link?
- Twirrim 6y agoAnecdotally, that's how my team found out one of our co-workers does some Twitch streaming. He has a really good mic, camera and a 3-point light setup.
- soylentcola 6y agoIt's how my team had it reiterated that I like to mess around with things like this (especially when I'm already working from home). I still just have the basic Microsoft 1280x720 USB webcam that I grabbed from the office when we left in March. Phone-as-webcam was more trouble than it was worth, but it did get me playing with OBS for better control over exposure, white balance, gamma, etc. From there I rigged up a couple of desk lights and clamp lights I had around for better lighting. Then I got a cheap green sheet to replace the white sheet I'd hung behind me to hide the junk room I've been using as a temp office. Then I hooked up a Shure mic to the old USB audio interface I used to have hooked up for messing with guitar. So now I've got the best sound, lighting, and video-loop backgrounds of the team. Yay? ;)
- monadic2 6y agoLighting matters much, much more than the camera setup. What is a twitch streamer? Some kind of gaming culture?
- samatman 6y agoI went all-in on a decent mirrorless, lens, and some lighting. Not really for videoconferencing, but I use it for that as well. It's true that the bandwidth isn't there to push 4k. But being decently lit, with a real depth of field, large sensor and aperture, and the flattering effect of a good focal length, all adds up. I look a lot better than the other people on the call, and people notice and comment on that. This isn't worth a few grand on its own. But if you have other uses for decent video and photography equipment, or just find yourself needing an expensive hobby, you'll get a substantially better effect with it.
- aikinai 6y agoI use a nice mirrorless camera as my webcam. Every single person I meet with first comments on the image quality before we get into the meeting. It absolutely makes a difference. And I haven’t done anything about my lighting which is pretty terrible. At least I can set the exposure for my face regardless of whether the background ends up solid white or black.
- s5300 6y agoCan you tell us which?
- aikinai 6y agoYeah, I use my Sony α6600 with the Sigma 1.4 56mm lens. And an Elgato Cam Link 4K to hook it up to the computer. I certainly wouldn’t buy it just for a webcam, but I already have the camera and I got the Cam Link for my son’s violin performances that moved to Zoom for a while. Oh, also I use the ECM-B1M mic even though I use Bluetooth headphones. I realized Bluetooth headphones (at least on a Mac) drop down to super low quality when transmitting both audio and mic, so I only use them for my sound and rely on the camera mic through the Cam Link for input.
- mavidser 6y agoTangential for folks with more bluetooth knowledge than me - is there any bluetooth profile (or plans for a future high-bandwidth bluetooth version) which can support high quality audio while also supporting microphones? HFS/HSP is one of the major reasons why I'm still reluctant to use wireless headphones as my default playback device.
- numpad0 6y agoMany proprietary wireless headphones do fine. “HFP but like A2DP” sadly don’t exist.
- Moto7451 6y agoI use a Newer NW700 as my microphone attached to my standing desk with my wireless headphones. macOS makes managing this easy through either independent controls through the Sound control panel or as an aggregate device. For the road I found a pass through mic that plugs into my headphone’s line in and use it as wired headphones. The mic comes out on an arm and it does a much better job than an in line mic built into a cable.
- gsich 6y agoDSLR or DSLM with HDMI output.
- 867-5309 6y agowhat use would that be for teleconferencing / facetime? nobody has an HDMI input
- pdpi 6y agoI use one of these to use my camera as a webcam: https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k
- mcpherrinm 6y agoFor about $20 you can get an HDMI capture device: https://www.theverge.com/21346571/cheap-cam-link-capture-card-streamer-clone-review-test-price https://www.theverge.com/21346571/cheap-cam-link-capture-car...
- mdorazio 6y agoLike a few other commenters here, after seeing how often I would be on camera and being tired of the potato quality of my laptop's built-in camera, I decided to do something about it. $60 worth of lighting recommended by YouTubers + a $7 HDMI to USB capture device off eBay plugged into the Sony RX100 I already had from years ago and now I regularly get people commenting on how good my video looks (bonus: it makes me look better, too).
- zingplex 6y agoCould you link to the lighting?
- mdorazio 6y agoSure thing. Check out [1] for the overview in video form. I saved some money by building my own softbox with cardboard, duct tape, aluminum foil, and white tissue paper (works surprisingly well), and got the corncob bulb direct from China [2] since the right color temp wasn't available on Amazon or eBay at the time. Note that if you go that route you'll probably need one of these [3] as well. Alternatively, you can grab one of these two-light kits for lots of light on the cheap [4], but you won't get much control over per-side intensity. Be sure to watch a few "video lighting tutorial" videos on YouTube to see how they are usually setup in relation to yourself and the camera for best results. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IF-VG69DAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IF-VG69DAU [2] https://www.ledlight1.com/40w-led-studio-light-bulb-e26-e27-medium-screw-base-5500k-standard-color-balanced-full-spectrum-photography-bulb-for-video-background-camera-lighting-p0015.html https://www.ledlight1.com/40w-led-studio-light-bulb-e26-e27-... [3] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X37NZSK/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X37NZSK/ [4] https://www.amazon.com/HPUSN-Professional-Photography-Continuous-Reflectors/dp/B07NBP6D98/ https://www.amazon.com/HPUSN-Professional-Photography-Contin...
- zingplex 6y agoAre you using a single light source or multiple?
- lkois 6y agoYou can set up your phone (or DSLR) as a webcam in a pinch, no need to purchase new hardware. I recently upgraded to a gaming laptop with no camera at all, and for a moment thought my remote working life would be burdened by expensive and clunky extra hardware to avoid seeming ineptly suited to working from home. Instead it's only burdened by awkward phone placement, but the image quality is much better than before.
- astatine 6y agoThe Dell XPS 13 with the absurdly located camera - just above keyboard level. When I bought it, I had no intention of using it and had taped it over. And then 2020 happened. When I really need to show people my face on zoom, I now use DroidCam and make my phone the webcam. Works really well for me.
- fyfy18 6y agoIt's not just Dell. I have an old iPad Pro I use for video calls (Zoom maxes my CPU on Linux) and when it's sitting in the case, the camera is either to the left or the right of where I am looking...
- benhurmarcel 6y agoHow do you mount your phone to the top of the laptop screen?
- jethro_tell 6y agoI use a 10 year old logitech c910 - 1080p with stereo mics and a room with indirect natural light and 1Gbps fiber internet connection. I have people ask me all the time if I'm a podcaster or streamer and mention that my setup looks really clean and sounds great. Most of my calls take less than 1Mbps upload during the call so it's probably not the internet's fault for the most part. Never had anyone say that with my laptop integrated cam on wifi. My guess is that now that every laptop has a camera and a mic just above the keyboard, we are just used to seeing shitty images and hearing garbled sound but apparently, it does make a difference.
- 867-5309 6y agoto all those recommending better lighting: nobody sits in a dark or unlit room when using a webcam. we shouldn't need to buy more crap at extra expense and space just to make something which should work work. it's the cheap components in the cameras which are the problem. I don't understand why this seems to be the norm, it reminds me of laptops being sold with crappy resolution screens even though the underlying hardware was fully capable of outputting higher. they still exist actually it will take years before good quality webcams become the norm. we are only just starting to see them with built in IR sensors in mid to higher end models
- coldtea 6y ago>to all those recommending better lighting: nobody sits in a dark or unlit room when using a webcam. You'd be surprised.
- 867-5309 6y agonot really, if you cannot see then the camera should not be able to, and the opposite applies
- coldtea 6y agoTons of people do Zoom from poorly lit rooms. Not because they prefer not to be seen, or go for the gothic vampire aesthetic, but because they don't know any better or don't have good lighting in their home office.
- 867-5309 6y agoI'm not disagreeing with that, I'm saying they are still lit, even if a little. if the human eye is able to see in such conditions, why not an electronic device?
- markus92 6y agoSensitivity and dynamic range of the human eye is far, far better than any camera sensor you can buy at a reasonable price.
- kelnos 6y agoI was thinking this: my upload speed maxes out around 10Mbps, and on a not-even-that-bad day can be as low as 4Mbps. (Thanks, Comcast.) Is that enough to transmit anywhere near the quality this camera can output? And even if there is, will Zoom do a good job finding the optimal encoding?
- wtallis 6y agoA higher quality sensor will mean less noise in the captured image (especially with poor lighting), so the compressed stream will spend more bits on encoding you and fewer bits on encoding artifacts. A better lens will reduce distortion and aberration. A larger sensor combined with a large aperture lens will enable a shallow depth of field, so your face can be in focus while the backdrop of your messy home office is out of focus—again helping spend your precious upload bandwidth on the details you want to be transmitting. 4Mbps is nowhere near low enough to level out all the differences between a crap camera and a great camera. With modern codecs, 4Mbps is actually quite a lot of room to work with; Zoom specifies a requirement of just 3Mbps for group video calls at 1080p, and even Twitch only supports up to 6Mbps.
- bjterry 6y agoWhen I imagine a classic webcam, it's definitely the Logitech QuickCam Express (1999), with its memorable industrial design of an orb perched atop a stumpy pyramid. It only predated the iSight (2003) by 4 years, although there were earlier models with a similar design under the Connectix brand name dating back to 1994.
- userbinator 6y agoThat's what I thought it would be too --- the "eyeball" which became the standard icon for a webcam.
- djsumdog 6y agoI remember buying one of those in 2000. It was even USB. A few years later someone gave me another eyeball Logitech without the stand and I just put it on a soda bottle filled with water with a bolt and wing nut through the cap (poor man's tripod). Comparing it to my old one, man was that a huge jump in quality and framerate in just 6 years. I used it to make this fun little tool: https://rearviewmirror.cc https://rearviewmirror.cc
- bluedino 6y agoAgreed, but I was thinking IndyCam
- jeffbee 6y agoIndyCam had the same resolution as the iSight but it looked like trash. There was a lot of geometric distortion and wacky color fringing. It was weird because you _could_ get excellent video input on the Indy just by hooking up a real camcorder to the S-Video port. The Indy was the only SGI that came out-of-the-box with analog video capture. But the IndyCam wasn't analog, and it wasn't good for anything either.
- ddingus 6y agoIt was a tolerant one too. The SGI Pro Video performed better on broadcast grade signals, but would reject many others. If one wanted to capture vintage / retro computer generated video, the Indy VINO did a great job of it.
- monadic2 6y agoLet me add this to the list of "problems that obviously aren't problems". The isight camera looks like dogshit glued to a monitor. Why is it so phallic? Cameras have no need for that shape. Seems like marketing bullshit to attract old men. Clearly, it worked—men are primarily driven by their penis, and men want to look at their own penis. @ y'all downvoting me: lmao, pathetic cucks. Suck it.
- dang 6y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
- ddevault 6y ago>To keep reading this story, create a free account. No. Stop posting Medium to HN.
- ketamine__ 6y agoOpen in incognito window?
- fortyseven 6y agoUnless it's somebody I really want to hear from, I close Medium links almost immediately.
- Shared404 6y agoFirefox + NoScript + Privacy Badger + Blocking Cookies, and I have never seen this request. I recognize that it shouldn't take a workaround, but there are workarounds, and I have seen interesting articles on Medium that I'm glad I've read. Also, I want to say thanks for your work on Sway and Sourcehut, I use both frequently.
- GoOnThenDoTell 6y agoPaywalls and sign-up-walls should be against posting guidelines
- webmaven 6y ago> Paywalls and sign-up-walls should be against posting guidelines I've noticed that some paywalled sites (NY Times, in particular) provoke an almost immediate posting of an unpaywalled mirror (usually archive.org or outline.com). It would actually be nice if HN just did that automatically.
- Reelin 6y agoThis comment was [flagged][dead] when I came across it and that really bothers me. Paywalls pose a serious problem to discussion sites such as HN where it's hoped (often in vain, but still) that all commenters have read the linked document in its entirety. There's a SSC article that mirrors my opinion on the matter fairly well. (https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/04/problems-with-paywalls/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/04/problems-with-paywalls...)
- monadic2 6y agoMf wants to re-gentrify the community. Fuckim. How hard is it to produce commodity cameras? The components are cheap as hell. Why the fuck would you gravitate TOWARDS a colonialist entity? The answer is, of course, margins and marketing. This mf after a paycheck, and I can't blame im. Y'all know what y'all're doin. Fuck all your pretend bullshit about "not knowing the harm you've caused", fuck you, specifically, individually, for all the harm you've caused.
- Hnaomyiph 6y agoI think reusing materials is interesting, especially when its reuse brings an old technology into the modern era.
- jimmies 6y agoThis blog post is kind of a playful idea on the iSight. However, if you want to take it seriously, you should consider using the High Quality Camera with the Pi as a USB webcam. The sensor on that HQ camera is HUGE, thus the picture quality is really really good, especially when you take time to figure out the focus and such [1] [2]. It's better than most if not all the webcams you can buy on the market. It's definitely more compact, cheaper, and less hassle than using the whole Mirrorless + HDMI capture-card setup if you want to upgrade your Zoom appearance. On the software side, I have worked on the exact Pi-as-a-webcam software project for a while [0]. It's quite customizable and you can play with parameters of the camera to further extract values out of the hardware. I also am hoping, in the future, to implement "smart" functions such as auto-panning the camera and such. However, I still couldn't figure out a good case for it so the setup looks kinda crummy, not as slick as the iSight. 0: https://github.com/showmewebcam/showmewebcam https://github.com/showmewebcam/showmewebcam 1: https://hackaday.io/project/174479/gallery#715fab460d86cbd1144014c5b3cb72fb https://hackaday.io/project/174479/gallery#715fab460d86cbd11... 2: https://hackaday.io/project/174479/gallery#da539049c84e7fd646ed2f6518ff93fa https://hackaday.io/project/174479/gallery#da539049c84e7fd64...
- numpad0 6y ago7.9mm(1/2.3”) diagonal is not exactly huge, same or smaller than many smartphones.
- pier25 6y agoMaybe jimmies meant compared to webcams?
- jimmies 6y agoTo be honest, I didn't realize that that sensor just about the size of an iPhone's sensor. I would have guessed the iPhone's camera sensor is smaller. It really blew my mind how compact the whole iPhone camera package is.
- HALtheWise 6y agoI'm not entirely sure about this situation, but sensor size numbers often don't reflect an actual measurement of the physical size of the sensor. It's all based on old film standards.
- jcrawfordor 6y agoI just acquired an obsolete Tandberg teleconferencing system via surplus auction. The codec isn't much use to me, but the camera is 720p with pan/tilt/zoom/exposure controlled over serial. It looks outstanding and I can re-aim it easily in my office where I sometimes sit different places. I use a cheap HDMI capture device to get the video off of it, and due to Cisco/Tandberg being a bit evasive about the control protocol I'm working on my own software to control it this evening... that and notes about getting it up and running here: https://github.com/jcrawfordor/tandyberg https://github.com/jcrawfordor/tandyberg These Tandberg systems were expensive ($1500 and up) when new but the outdated ones turn up at auction somewhat regularly and the cameras, having been top of the line at the time, are still pretty good by modern standards. I'm quite happy with it for $35. Later versions were 1080p as well.
- bluedino 6y agoWe had a Lifesize system at one point that ran on a dedicated T1. It was amazing at the time.
- jcrawfordor 6y agoWhen I got mine I thought it had a 4-port ethernet switch on it for convenience for a moment. Then I realized it was for eight bonded ISDN BRIs. I actually used the exact model I got at a previous job, although it was on ethernet by that point. I remember the codec's UI being painfully hard to use. I have a SIP setup here so I might try to get the codec working with it later, but for now I haven't even powered it up yet. I did crack it open out of curiosity and it's neat how they heatsinked all of the ASIC codec chips to the aluminum case. All around very nice hardware design, which I guess we ought to expect out of Norway. The camera is surprisingly heavy but the drive motors are extremely smooth and quiet compared to the PTZ surveillance cameras I'm more used to working with.
- gogopuppygogo 6y agoI sold life size when T1 connectivity was still the norm and you could get HD over one of those. The quality was outstanding for the time.
- lostgame 6y agoI actually imagined the iSight as soon as I read 'classic webcam'. The only other 'classic' I can think of is the Logitech QuickCam Express.
- xwdv 6y agoScrew this webcam stuff, the iSight chasis would make a sweet case for a raspberry pi zero. Install a Linux OS with MacOS clone interface and it’s like a baby Mac. Apply a dark tint film on the top lens and a white diffuser and add an RGB led that turns on colorfully when you wake the voice assistant.
- kilroy123 6y agoThat's a great idea.
- causality0 6y agoModern industrial design is a nauseating mix of commodification and trend-following, both of which drive drive products in the same niche to look the same. It's the beige-box phenomena writ large. Electronics used to be sexy, dammit.
- fyfy18 6y agoTo be fair, electronics used to be boring too. When I was growing up I had a Packard Bell PC with a 13" CRT (which weighed something like 20kg), and a boxy Epson printer. All three had a case in the standard 90s white/cream with grey highlights, where the white part turns yellow after a few years.
- extra88 6y agoI’ve used an unmodified iSight camera since working from home, it’s fine, no one needs more pixels of my face on calls. Its FireWire 400 cable is connected to a powered drive enclosure to convert it to FireWire 800. That cable is connected to a Thunderbolt 2 adapter which is connected to a Thunderbolt 3 adapter. I already had all these parts; if I had a FireWire 400 to 800 cable, I wouldn’t need the powered enclosure, the iSight cable is detachable.
- schrijver 6y agoI like your approach much better, the linked article just seems wasteful. I really appreciate finding new uses for old electronics, it can be a fun challenge, a unique aesthetic & it benefits the environment over buying new. But here he destroys what’s basically a functioning webcam to put another webcam in there (which I assume he bought new). He could at least have usen a broken iSight.
- leemailll 6y agoyour cable connections are a reflection of Apple's footprint on peripheral ports. Are you doing this on purpose?
- extra88 6y agoMy only purpose was to get a webcam above my monitor and I had all these parts. I don’t know what part Apple played with Intel in the design of FireWire and Thunderbolt. I’m glad that over ~20 years of marked improvement, it’s still possible to connect and use this hardware. I think I still have a 3com USB webcam somewhere that’s even older but after only a few years, it wouldn’t work with anything I had.
- hinkley 6y agoHaven’t tried this, but there are supposedly driverless usb 2 to FireWire 400 adapters. I figure we are likely to have USB 2 ports on hubs and monitors for some time. https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Male-FireWire-Female-Adapter/dp/B0144G3Z20/ref=psdc_3015396011_t3_B07QY7K61S https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Male-FireWire-Female-Adapter/...
- isodev 6y agoI had the iSight camera when I was in high school. Brings back a lot of dial-up memories too.
- sneak 6y agoThe idea of 1080p HD or even 4K webcams is silly when most videoconferencing software/apps limits to 320p or 720p. Google Meet, for example, does not even support 1080p.
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- villgax 6y agoWhy can't my Android device with OTG & fancy SoCs act like a UVC webcam!
- johnchristopher 6y agoI tried to use a smartphone (moto g2)as a camera IP. Heat would shut down some components at some points, the camera or the app would crash, the wifi would shut down and not reconnect. All those problems went away when I switched to pi zero. Other problems invited themselves though.
- c-st 6y agoThe current workaround for this would be to use an app like IPWebcam and route the network traffic over USB with adb, then ffmpeg it into v4l2loopback on your computer. I have been using an old smartphone as webcam for quite some time now, and I got to say it works quite well. The only problem is the power supply, because video recording draws a lot of power it drains the battery even when it's plugged in. Of course, an out of the box solution with UVC would be much nicer!
- vestrigi 6y agoI wonder if there is a way to salvage the microphones from the isight as well. Author hasn't lost a word about it so I guess it has been discarded. I still have a knock-off iSight from eBay which was quite similar but of course had worse image and production quality. One advantage is that it features a thread on the bottom so it can be mounted to a small tripod which still looks quite nice. I use it for a time-lapse project that records the growth of a plant by taking a photograph every 15 minutes. The image resolution is a lot better than the video resolution on these things but still years behind the pi camera I guess.
- gdubs 6y agoSince we’re reminiscing — here’s the SGI Indycam: https://www.geektechnique.org/projectlab/641/how-to-turn-an-indy-into-a-dedicated-webcam.html https://www.geektechnique.org/projectlab/641/how-to-turn-an-... I called SGI in high school and received some beautiful brochures, on the Indy, and Indigo II. The webcam on the Indy was the most futuristic thing I’d seen at the time.
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoKnew of a guy, bought an old HP 3000 industrial computer, gutted it and used it for a stereo rack. Folks do strange things.
- whatch 6y ago> 640x480 is not a camera resolution anymore But 1280x720 unfortunately is
- HashingtheCode 6y agoGood way to reduce your plastic consumption....NOT!, by unnecessarily 3D printing the housing for this project. Sure the plastic will be here for a long time after we have all parted this earthly plane. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.
- specialist 6y agoThis [1] hand labeled green cutting (project) matt image is just about the best ever. Really terrific visual. Gives me a Scott McCloud or How Things Work vibe. Should we call that arrangement "unknolling"? I love it. Fun project, great writeup. [1] https://miro.medium.com/max/2000/1*swkZD1-z23KR2FbsU3OUbQ.jpeg https://miro.medium.com/max/2000/1*swkZD1-z23KR2FbsU3OUbQ.jp...