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I am really not appreciating the comparison in this article. There's a world of difference between living in a beautiful place in a functional country with a lo

I am really not appreciating the comparison in this article. There's a world of difference between living in a beautiful place in a functional country with a long winter darkness (and adapting yourself to it) and living somewhere where it is effectively illegal to see other people as a consequence of your government's abject failure to manage an epidemic and its inability to have a conversation about the trade off between getting sick with this specific disease and suffering all of the other mental and physical health problems that this level of lockdown causes.

programmarchy 6y ago
Have you considered moving, even if only temporarily? Based on your comment, I'm assuming you're talking about the U.S. but it's a huge country and there are many beautiful places you could live which also have decent enough internet to allow remote work.
- rindalir 6y ago
  I was actually talking about the UK (since it's a guardian article). I actually live in Vermont in the US, which is currently much more like northern Norway than England.
  - torwayburger 6y ago
    How long did you stay in Norway? Edit: word. If you're gonna compare A to B, get some B experience...
    - rindalir 6y ago
      Unfortunately only a few weeks, and I never made it north of Trondheim. Someday, when travel is allowed again ....
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    >I actually live in Vermont in the US So you probably don't have a real appreciation of what is happening in the UK.
    - rindalir 6y ago
      how would you know?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I don't know where the commenter is, but the source article is from the UK, where many commentators are expecting a second lockdown next month.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Yeah, the article's giving me the same vibes as an article in 1990s Afghanistan saying "here's how to chill out and relax once music is banned". I'm not exactly mad at the author, it's great to share coping strategies for bad things, but the underlying assumptions going unquestioned are glaring.
- rindalir 6y ago
  Thank you! Your comparison made me laugh (dark humor, of course)
chunkyfunky 6y ago
"effectively illegal to see other people as a consequence of your government's abject failure to manage an epidemic" Surely though the current situation is as bad as it is because of other people's inability to manage themselves during an epidemic, as opposed to the government being to blame? I'm not having a poke, but I notice here in Ireland for example, when the government comes out with clear guidelines e.g. "Don't go around licking people's eyeballs. If you do you might get sick" then the general populace is all like "oh but it's so confusing! What if I only lick one of their eyeballs? What is the definition of 'might'? We need more guidance!". So then the guidance comes back "Do not lick people's eyeballs, ever" and BOOM - someone takes a constitutional challenge High Court because "Civil Liberties". And I do think it's kind of the same in most countries, the government is not to blame, the general population is. Just a thought :)
- albinofrenchy 6y ago
  The anti-masker crowd is annoying but not the majority. You aren't going to ever fix stupid. The failures of the various governments to respond promptly is more alarming. Guidance on masking in the US is still regional; and the CDC is seized by political infighting. Testing is a train wreck. Some states are trying to fight the spread while their neighbors are busy pissing in the pool. Deflecting the blame to the 'general population' might work if there was anything coming close to competence at the federal level but it honestly just strikes me as making excuses.
  - just-juan-post 6y ago
    Blaming the government for past failures does nothing for the present or the future. It is a waste of time and emotional energy that does not produce any end result. Instead of having any conversation about the government's past actions we should be having conversations about the present and the future. Are these lockdowns justified? What is the timline for ending them? What data is being used to justify them (see Nashville TN USA email coverup). PS: I used to call myself anti-masker but it doesn't play well. I'm not anti-mask I'm pro-choice.
    - 6y ago
collyw 6y ago
What do you mean failure to manage the epidemic? The Imperial College modelling that was done predicted half a million deaths in the UK and 2 million in the US. That was the justification for lockdown, as such it appears that we have managed it incredibly well avoiding 90% of the predicted deaths.
- officialjunk 6y ago
  it's not over yet. too early to say we have avoided the deaths.
  - collyw 6y ago
    Fair point, but looking at the curves, deaths rates the virus seems to have run its course in many countries. Sweden didn't bother with lock down and the virus appears to have run it's course there. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
    - just-juan-post 6y ago
      No, it's not a fair point. It's the same crap they have been spewing for months in order to justify the lockdowns and lifestyle restrictions. We just don't know = lock down the world for months or years with no tradeoffs, no discussion of how to end them, and no questioning the lockdowns because > 1 people will or have died. This "we just don't know so we're going to restrict the entire world and pretend individuals can't choose for themselves" argument is the reason that lifestyles have been restricted. I'm not anti-mask I'm pro-choice. Let individuals choose, not government.
      - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        The trouble with that argument is that it leads to people who choose not to care, infecting those that do, which can lead to deaths, which many people dislike. Historically, pandemics are one of the few acceptable reasons for such restrictions in the US, and it's very odd to me that it's been so controversial in that country.
frr149 6y ago
Maybe you're missing a sense of humor.
- humbleMouse 6y ago
  As a winter dweller, trust me, sense of humor is not what is missing. The sun and heat is what is missing.

programmarchy 6y ago

Have you considered moving, even if only temporarily? Based on your comment, I'm assuming you're talking about the U.S. but it's a huge country and there are many beautiful places you could live which also have decent enough internet to allow remote work.

rindalir 6y ago
I was actually talking about the UK (since it's a guardian article). I actually live in Vermont in the US, which is currently much more like northern Norway than England.
- torwayburger 6y ago
  How long did you stay in Norway? Edit: word. If you're gonna compare A to B, get some B experience...
  - rindalir 6y ago
    Unfortunately only a few weeks, and I never made it north of Trondheim. Someday, when travel is allowed again ....
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  >I actually live in Vermont in the US So you probably don't have a real appreciation of what is happening in the UK.
  - rindalir 6y ago
    how would you know?
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I don't know where the commenter is, but the source article is from the UK, where many commentators are expecting a second lockdown next month.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Yeah, the article's giving me the same vibes as an article in 1990s Afghanistan saying "here's how to chill out and relax once music is banned". I'm not exactly mad at the author, it's great to share coping strategies for bad things, but the underlying assumptions going unquestioned are glaring.

rindalir 6y ago
Thank you! Your comparison made me laugh (dark humor, of course)

chunkyfunky 6y ago

"effectively illegal to see other people as a consequence of your government's abject failure to manage an epidemic" Surely though the current situation is as bad as it is because of other people's inability to manage themselves during an epidemic, as opposed to the government being to blame? I'm not having a poke, but I notice here in Ireland for example, when the government comes out with clear guidelines e.g. "Don't go around licking people's eyeballs. If you do you might get sick" then the general populace is all like "oh but it's so confusing! What if I only lick one of their eyeballs? What is the definition of 'might'? We need more guidance!". So then the guidance comes back "Do not lick people's eyeballs, ever" and BOOM - someone takes a constitutional challenge High Court because "Civil Liberties". And I do think it's kind of the same in most countries, the government is not to blame, the general population is. Just a thought :)

albinofrenchy 6y ago
The anti-masker crowd is annoying but not the majority. You aren't going to ever fix stupid. The failures of the various governments to respond promptly is more alarming. Guidance on masking in the US is still regional; and the CDC is seized by political infighting. Testing is a train wreck. Some states are trying to fight the spread while their neighbors are busy pissing in the pool. Deflecting the blame to the 'general population' might work if there was anything coming close to competence at the federal level but it honestly just strikes me as making excuses.
- just-juan-post 6y ago
  Blaming the government for past failures does nothing for the present or the future. It is a waste of time and emotional energy that does not produce any end result. Instead of having any conversation about the government's past actions we should be having conversations about the present and the future. Are these lockdowns justified? What is the timline for ending them? What data is being used to justify them (see Nashville TN USA email coverup). PS: I used to call myself anti-masker but it doesn't play well. I'm not anti-mask I'm pro-choice.
  - 6y ago

collyw 6y ago

What do you mean failure to manage the epidemic? The Imperial College modelling that was done predicted half a million deaths in the UK and 2 million in the US. That was the justification for lockdown, as such it appears that we have managed it incredibly well avoiding 90% of the predicted deaths.

officialjunk 6y ago
it's not over yet. too early to say we have avoided the deaths.
- collyw 6y ago
  Fair point, but looking at the curves, deaths rates the virus seems to have run its course in many countries. Sweden didn't bother with lock down and the virus appears to have run it's course there. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
  - just-juan-post 6y ago
    No, it's not a fair point. It's the same crap they have been spewing for months in order to justify the lockdowns and lifestyle restrictions. We just don't know = lock down the world for months or years with no tradeoffs, no discussion of how to end them, and no questioning the lockdowns because > 1 people will or have died. This "we just don't know so we're going to restrict the entire world and pretend individuals can't choose for themselves" argument is the reason that lifestyles have been restricted. I'm not anti-mask I'm pro-choice. Let individuals choose, not government.
    - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
      The trouble with that argument is that it leads to people who choose not to care, infecting those that do, which can lead to deaths, which many people dislike. Historically, pandemics are one of the few acceptable reasons for such restrictions in the US, and it's very odd to me that it's been so controversial in that country.

frr149 6y ago

Maybe you're missing a sense of humor.

humbleMouse 6y ago
As a winter dweller, trust me, sense of humor is not what is missing. The sun and heat is what is missing.