7 ms·
How Humanity Came to Contemplate Its Possible Extinction
- jacobwilliamroy 6y ago>It is only in the last couple of centuries that we have begun to grasp that our existence might one day cease to exist forever What about all the ancient world religions who wrote books about how the world was going to end one day and everyone is going to die? Surely eschatology already covers this topic, albeit in a manner lacking the citations and p-values which "truth" requires these days.
- mensetmanusman 6y agoI like this: “ In the ancient mythologies you will not find the idea of a physical universe continuing, in its independent vastness, after the annihilation of humans. “ If humans are the observers that collapse the wave function, then it’s possible nothing exists after humans are gone ;)
- cybertronic 6y agowhat about (intelligent) machines?
- undersuit 6y agoWhat about robot dogs?
- imtringued 6y agoOr just regular dogs?
- bobthepanda 6y agoIsn’t this the premise of WALL-E?
- mensetmanusman 6y agoThe optical tables join entanglement until we measure them. Those are quite intelligent?
- aarpmcgee 6y agoI like to imagine that our bodies/brains are merely suitable hardware with which to tune into consciousness. We then are quickly “enculturated” into associating one very narrow band of consciousness with the idea of “me” which immediately and necessarily creates “you”
- VectorLock 6y agoThats why I always like the anthropic principal; that its necessary for life to be possible, because if it wasn't then the universe would pass with no entity there to observe it.
- imtringued 6y agoIf the universe has a beginning and an end, then why hasn't it ended already? Why does it keep existing?
- anvandare 6y agoWell, this particular instance of the Universe popped into existence last Thursday[1] and will run until Tuesday at around 16:33:02. (internal time, that is) After which it's expected another 10^4943332110093! instances will run before the first Universe with (mostly) the exact same configuration as Tuesday 16:33:02 will appear, though that one will only exist for a few hours. After that, it's quite a few iterations before we get to Wednesday. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism
- jeremyjh 6y agoThe universe might be better off without wave function collapse.This is the premise of the Greg Egan novel Quarantine. Totally recommended.
- LockAndLol 6y ago> we can only become truly responsible for ourselves when we fully realize what is at stake We are a long way away from that. People are living their lives as if it's only theirs that matter - while still having kids. The cognitive dissonance is quite impressive. I'd welcome the establishment of an annihilation watch that monitored the world for extinction level dangers. They could then rate, classify them and have governments take action.
- lordnacho 6y agoA hardcoded desire to eat and make kids is pretty much why we're even here to contemplate anything. Many of us who have the means cannot even stop ourselves from overeating. Several leading causes of death are simply connected to people not being able to stop eating. How do you expect people to take responsibility for the planet's health when so many cannot even stop themselves from harming themselves?
- dmm 6y ago> while still having kids Are they? Birth rates are below replacement everywhere outside of handful of places like Afghanistan. Even with lots of immigration the US faces a Japanese style demographic crisis. Large populations may be a big problem but shrinking them through low birthrates definitely causes its own problems. The workers-per-retiree is going to fall from 3 today to 2 by 2030. That's a 50% increased retirement tax burden.
- drivebycomment 6y ago> People are living their lives as if it's only theirs that matter - while still having kids. This suggests you have a Malthusian worldview which is not backed by evidence. Please check http://gapminder.org/ http://gapminder.org/ - I highly recommend taking https://forms.gapminder.org/s3/test-2018 https://forms.gapminder.org/s3/test-2018 and see how much you actually know. The population growth of the humanity is a consequence of the societies transitioning out of the poverty: https://www.gapminder.org/videos/population-growth-explained-with-ikea-boxes/ https://www.gapminder.org/videos/population-growth-explained... and the only morally justified answer is to continue and accelerate this transition.
- hirundo 6y ago> Only recently did people realize the physical universe could continue — aimlessly — without us ... And, in realizing that the entire fate of human value within the physical universe may rest upon us, we could finally begin to face up to what is at stake in our actions and decisions upon this planet. This does not compute. In the old paradigm we were at the center of the universe with the creator's undivided attention, and answerable to Him after life, with eternal bliss or torture on the table. In the new one we're trivial beings on a trivial dust mote in a trivial galaxy, answerable to ourselves only, and death is the end. Those stakes seem vastly lower. How does that translate into more responsibility for our actions?
- jlokier 6y agoIf in the new paradigm we're in control of our own destiny, how does that make the stakes lower than when it was out of our hands?
- _jahh 6y agounder the new paradigm what control remains independent of biological and evolutionary history?
- jolux 6y agoBecause there is no second chance. We are not answerable to god, we will not live forever no matter what we do in life. The universe does not care whether or not we exist, so if we care about existing, our sole responsibility is to each other and ourselves. God will not save us, there is no salvation that we do not create.
- irrational 6y agoBut, once I’m dead I don’t really care if everyone else dies 5 minutes later, do I? I’m dead and I have no way to know what happens after that point. Nothing that happens after I die has any affect on me.
- 6y ago
- madrox 6y agoFor me, one of the most impactful movies in the last decade has been Tomorrowland. The entire movie was about how we relate to the future, and how that relationship creates it. I don't believe optimism is a luxury. We have to hold an image in our head of our ideal future and work to make it. It's a lot like this pandemic. I read the news, and it conjures images in my head from every pandemic movie ever. Cars abandoned in the street. Trash everywhere. Society reduced to tribalism. Then I go outside to see that the sun is shining and everything appears somewhat normal except people are wearing masks.
- throwaway13337 6y agoI haven't seen the movie but I often contemplate the idea that our current pessimism about the future makes it so. Media of the past like Star Trek inspired us that our future was hopeful. There is also media which tends to look at an idealized past and a longing to go back to it. Though I love his world, Tolkien is an example here. These general narratives show up in a ton of the media we consume and shape our view of the world. Sometimes for the negative and sometimes for the positive. I posit that they shape our real-world direction more than we suspect. We've lost our vision of the future so what's next is bleak because we make it so. We must first have a strong, positive narrative of the future in order for that future to follow.
- nojvek 6y agoWe had the pandemic + smoke from the recent fires in the west coast. It was truly dystopian. Not being able to see the stars for weeks, not being able to breath clean air, not being able to touch things. This is not a world I’d like to leave behind for my kids. I’m not sure there is much I can do though.
- stephc_int13 6y agoIn my opinion, our current talks about the apocalypse are only marginally less naive than similar discussions during ancient times. We understand so much more about the universe and yet our ability to predict the future is almost nil.
- avmich 6y ago> are only marginally less naive As I understand naive, it's a relative term - comparing to something which is considered more mature, reasonable etc. which - and that's important - can be presented as an antitheses. If something different, which is "better", can't be presented, then "naive" becomes "best", which definitely changes the meaning to the degree of non-applicability.
- justin66 6y agoWe have sound theories for multiple extinction events in the Earth's past, we have the ability to model complex risks involving astronomy, climate, and biology which will occur in the Earth's future... if you're naïve about future risks to an extent that invites comparison with ancient history, perhaps it's because you've chosen not to be well read on these matters.
- stephc_int13 6y agoI've read quite a lot about these. We are very bad at predicting the implications of an event that has not happened yet. We can predict global warming because it is already occuring and what we're doing is not much more advanced than a glorified linear extrapolation. What is important is the consequences, on ecosystems, on agriculture, on all the interconnected systems. We can only predict reliably that global warming might be a perturbation. But we can't predict the reliable consequences of far simpler events.
- sci_prog 6y agoI would argue that our ability to predict the future is pretty good but our ability to react to/prevent an event from happening is next to nil. Pick any: large solar flare, mega volcanic eruption, climate change, asteroid collision...
- eternalban 6y ago"It is only in the last couple of centuries that we have begun to grasp that our existence might one day cease to exist forever." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypticism Actually, this has been a fairly widespread theme in most civilizations. "With Covid-19 afflicting the world, and a climate crisis looming, humanity’s future seems uncertain." Oh dear. It is only in the last couple of months that I have begun to grasp that our very fundamental human rights and freedoms may cease to exist forever.
- Lammy 6y agoBy constantly reading intentionally-scary headlines like this one?
- 29athrowaway 6y agoYou put a bacterial cell in a test tube full of food. Every minute, the bacterium reproduces, eats, and reproduces again. At minute 58, there's 75% of the test tube left. At minute 59, there's 50% of the test tube left. At minute 60, the food is gone and the test tube is filled with a horde of starving bacteria.
- Guy2020 6y ago...most religions have some apocalyptical component. We have been thinking about our extinction for thousands of years. This is just more fear mongering by an ever increasingly psychopathic mainstream press. Don't buy into the fear. These people are obviously trying to scare us into submission so they can control the entire world. The only thing that is at risk of dying is their control over us. For those who say there is no "they," and that it's outlandish conspiracy theory to say such things... look at the wealth inequality in the world. We do not exert equal influence on the system. I must repeat: we do not exert equal influence on the system. Our influence is becoming slimmer and slimmer every year. In fact, most of us have been completely marginalized out of the power process. There is a "they." There are puppets and string pullers. It's uncomfortable to realize the world we are truly living in, but the real threat we face is the desire to remain ignorant and asleep.