6 ms·

A lot of people will read this and immediately put themselves on huge doses of vit D thinking they'll be immune - rather than an deficiency increases mortality

Lopalis 6y ago
If it reduces their risk, what does it matter? Especially considering how many people are deficient in the best of times.
theptip 6y ago
Worth noting that a lot of people are vitamin D deficient. Particularly pronounced with those with a lot of melanin in the northern hemisphere, e.g. see https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vitamin-d-deficiency-united-states/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vitamin-d-deficie... So to a first approximation, taking 1000 IU of vit D might be a good default recommendation for anyone if you can’t afford to get your blood work done. I am not aware of any evidence supporting megadosing though.
- Eduard 6y ago
  Blood work?
  - 3np 6y ago
    Blood tests of serum levels etc.
  - steverb 6y ago
    Panel of various tests using your blood.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    By way of explanation: Your body accumulates a store of vitamin D in the liver, which it rations out into your bloodstream over time. When you ingest or produce vitamin D, your liver buffers the amount that ends up in your blood, which does two things. 1) saves for a rainy day (literally and figuratively) 2) protects you from vitamin d toxicity over the short term. Which I’m told is quite nasty. With a doctor’s supervision you can take large doses of vitamin d for a short time and your liver will soak it up. How fast your blood levels rise tells the doctor about how much more you need in the tank and/or if you are having absorption problems. They taper you off quickly as you approach a healthy blood level.
- hinkley 6y ago
  Every time I think of those Somali refugees they settled in Wisconsin and Washington State, I get a little bit angry. That’s just cruel. Even balancing for potential racism, Iowa, central Illinois/Indiana, Northern California would be loads better temperature and vitamin D-wise.
  - ComputerGuru 6y ago
    Actually, the most common destination is Minnesota, even further north than Wisconsin! Today though, Somalis prefer to be sent to the Twin Cities because of the network effect.
- leptons 6y ago
  >I am not aware of any evidence supporting megadosing though. The main consequence of vitamin D toxicity is a buildup of calcium in your blood (hypercalcemia), which can cause nausea and vomiting, weakness, and frequent urination. Vitamin D toxicity might progress to bone pain and kidney problems, such as the formation of calcium stones. It's not good to have too much either.
  - Filligree 6y ago
    Yeah, but too much is really quite a lot. Let's not scare people away from taking a reasonable amount.
    - leptons 6y ago
      I'm not scaring anyone away, but your drama is. After researching the proper dosage of Vitamin D, I purchased the correct dosage, and not one that would lead to overdosing, and those dosages are absolutely available and people often just buy whatever the maximum is even if they don't understand the implications of using it.
  - shock 6y ago
    > It's not good to have too much either. You can say that about water too. You can literally die if you drink too much water because the electrolytes get diluted too much⁰. ⓪ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Over the last month or so I've seen comments by HNers that they've taken pretty large doses and that it's helped with depression. I've been trying a double daily dose every day that I'm not able to go outside for an hour - after two weeks (and remember this is anecdotal, the causative nature in this is hidden) I had my first day in years where I was just happy; it was weird, I was like, huh, I feel happy today. My mood has been up in general. I'm hoping this helps long-term; perhaps VitD deficiency is a contributor to rising levels of depression too?
  - jonex 6y ago
    Great that you feel better! There are several potential explanations for this, for example: * It could be pure chance and selection bias, for you it seems unlikely, but consider how many took the same advice and saw not effect, they wouldn't post about it. This is why we need larger sample sizes and a control group to compare to. * It could be placebo, maybe your expectations made you notice and appreciate the happiness, maybe also strengthening it. This is why we need to make studies blind by using a placebo group. * There was indeed an effect because you were vitamin D deficient. Recently a large study was published where they gave a large group vit D to look for depression incidence and they could not find any effect. There's a lot of parameters that could affects the results so it doesn't mean there is none, but probably that it's not as simple as "give everyone vit D and we get rid of depression".
    - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
      Oh for sure, placebo is a strong possibility for me (the sense of taking action perhaps provides the mood improvement which is not quite placebo but a related effect); also on HN we're perhaps a lot more likely to be "shut-ins" (or approaching that) and so we're starting from a non-representative pool. For me, I just noticed a few comments saying it helped their depression, was considering VitD already for Covid19 reasons, and figured the possible level of harm was almost zero so I'd give it a shot. Not sure I'd expect a large randomised group to have a noticeable effect (can you link the study you mention, please) but perhaps "people who have reported depression, have been tested and found to be low in VitD" as a starting group and then see if it does better than placebo. Thanks for your comment.
staticassertion 6y ago
Most people should just go to a doctor every 6 months. Guessing is not a great idea imo.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  That’s pretty frequent for a healthy adult. How do the appointments go? I can’t imagine going without something to discuss.
  - staticassertion 6y ago
    I mean specifically if you're planning on making significant changes to how you supplement/ diet/ generally maintain health, it's a good idea to get tests done so you can actually measure the impact and understand if you're actually addressing an issue.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    I don't think 6 months is super frequent, even for a healthy person. I go at least once a year, whether I need to or not. I'd go up to every 6 months without hesitation, if my doctor recommended it.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      In the US, annual physical is what insurance typically covers for "free" but you may visit more frequently for follow-ups about something in particular (in which case you have co-pays). Which seems reasonable in general. Same thing with eye exams.
- nradov 6y ago
  There are not enough primary care physicians in the USA to allow otherwise healthy people to go to the doctor every 6 months. It just isn't possible.
bpodgursky 6y ago
It's very hard to take toxic amounts of vitamin D: > "Taking 60,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D for several months has been shown to cause toxicity. This level is many times higher than the U.S. Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for most adults of 600 IU of vitamin D a day. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...) Not saying it's impossible, but that's the equivalent of buying the top result on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-Vitamin-Strength-Softgels/dp/B008GC9T6A https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-Vitamin-Strength-Softgels...) and taking 12 polls a day for several months. It's not actually impossible to get to toxic levels... but that's a serious commitment.
- mlyle 6y ago
  Acute toxicity is not the only risk. E.g. risks of bone fractures increase at a few thousand IU a day.
  - dqv 6y ago
    Is that with or without vitamin K2 co-supplementation?
- Alex3917 6y ago
  The toxic dose is 4,000 IU per day though, so you would normally want to be taking well below that except maybe on a short-term basis.
  - fencepost 6y ago
    That seems low, considering that 5000iu softgels are very readily available (eg the vit D supplements at Costco). Edit: acute toxic dose not established, chronic toxic dose >50k iu/day. https://www.medscape.com/answers/819426-102369/at-what-dose-is-vitamin-d-toxic https://www.medscape.com/answers/819426-102369/at-what-dose-... Edit2: this article lists 4000 IU/day as the generally recognized as safe level https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#1.-Elevated-blood-levels https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#...

Lopalis 6y ago

If it reduces their risk, what does it matter? Especially considering how many people are deficient in the best of times.

theptip 6y ago

Worth noting that a lot of people are vitamin D deficient. Particularly pronounced with those with a lot of melanin in the northern hemisphere, e.g. see https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vitamin-d-deficiency-united-states/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vitamin-d-deficie... So to a first approximation, taking 1000 IU of vit D might be a good default recommendation for anyone if you can’t afford to get your blood work done. I am not aware of any evidence supporting megadosing though.

Eduard 6y ago
Blood work?
- 3np 6y ago
  Blood tests of serum levels etc.
- steverb 6y ago
  Panel of various tests using your blood.
- hinkley 6y ago
  By way of explanation: Your body accumulates a store of vitamin D in the liver, which it rations out into your bloodstream over time. When you ingest or produce vitamin D, your liver buffers the amount that ends up in your blood, which does two things. 1) saves for a rainy day (literally and figuratively) 2) protects you from vitamin d toxicity over the short term. Which I’m told is quite nasty. With a doctor’s supervision you can take large doses of vitamin d for a short time and your liver will soak it up. How fast your blood levels rise tells the doctor about how much more you need in the tank and/or if you are having absorption problems. They taper you off quickly as you approach a healthy blood level.
hinkley 6y ago
Every time I think of those Somali refugees they settled in Wisconsin and Washington State, I get a little bit angry. That’s just cruel. Even balancing for potential racism, Iowa, central Illinois/Indiana, Northern California would be loads better temperature and vitamin D-wise.
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  Actually, the most common destination is Minnesota, even further north than Wisconsin! Today though, Somalis prefer to be sent to the Twin Cities because of the network effect.
leptons 6y ago
>I am not aware of any evidence supporting megadosing though. The main consequence of vitamin D toxicity is a buildup of calcium in your blood (hypercalcemia), which can cause nausea and vomiting, weakness, and frequent urination. Vitamin D toxicity might progress to bone pain and kidney problems, such as the formation of calcium stones. It's not good to have too much either.
- Filligree 6y ago
  Yeah, but too much is really quite a lot. Let's not scare people away from taking a reasonable amount.
  - leptons 6y ago
    I'm not scaring anyone away, but your drama is. After researching the proper dosage of Vitamin D, I purchased the correct dosage, and not one that would lead to overdosing, and those dosages are absolutely available and people often just buy whatever the maximum is even if they don't understand the implications of using it.
- shock 6y ago
  > It's not good to have too much either. You can say that about water too. You can literally die if you drink too much water because the electrolytes get diluted too much⁰. ⓪ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Over the last month or so I've seen comments by HNers that they've taken pretty large doses and that it's helped with depression. I've been trying a double daily dose every day that I'm not able to go outside for an hour - after two weeks (and remember this is anecdotal, the causative nature in this is hidden) I had my first day in years where I was just happy; it was weird, I was like, huh, I feel happy today. My mood has been up in general. I'm hoping this helps long-term; perhaps VitD deficiency is a contributor to rising levels of depression too?
- jonex 6y ago
  Great that you feel better! There are several potential explanations for this, for example: * It could be pure chance and selection bias, for you it seems unlikely, but consider how many took the same advice and saw not effect, they wouldn't post about it. This is why we need larger sample sizes and a control group to compare to. * It could be placebo, maybe your expectations made you notice and appreciate the happiness, maybe also strengthening it. This is why we need to make studies blind by using a placebo group. * There was indeed an effect because you were vitamin D deficient. Recently a large study was published where they gave a large group vit D to look for depression incidence and they could not find any effect. There's a lot of parameters that could affects the results so it doesn't mean there is none, but probably that it's not as simple as "give everyone vit D and we get rid of depression".
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    Oh for sure, placebo is a strong possibility for me (the sense of taking action perhaps provides the mood improvement which is not quite placebo but a related effect); also on HN we're perhaps a lot more likely to be "shut-ins" (or approaching that) and so we're starting from a non-representative pool. For me, I just noticed a few comments saying it helped their depression, was considering VitD already for Covid19 reasons, and figured the possible level of harm was almost zero so I'd give it a shot. Not sure I'd expect a large randomised group to have a noticeable effect (can you link the study you mention, please) but perhaps "people who have reported depression, have been tested and found to be low in VitD" as a starting group and then see if it does better than placebo. Thanks for your comment.

staticassertion 6y ago

Most people should just go to a doctor every 6 months. Guessing is not a great idea imo.

lostlogin 6y ago
That’s pretty frequent for a healthy adult. How do the appointments go? I can’t imagine going without something to discuss.
- staticassertion 6y ago
  I mean specifically if you're planning on making significant changes to how you supplement/ diet/ generally maintain health, it's a good idea to get tests done so you can actually measure the impact and understand if you're actually addressing an issue.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  I don't think 6 months is super frequent, even for a healthy person. I go at least once a year, whether I need to or not. I'd go up to every 6 months without hesitation, if my doctor recommended it.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    In the US, annual physical is what insurance typically covers for "free" but you may visit more frequently for follow-ups about something in particular (in which case you have co-pays). Which seems reasonable in general. Same thing with eye exams.
nradov 6y ago
There are not enough primary care physicians in the USA to allow otherwise healthy people to go to the doctor every 6 months. It just isn't possible.

bpodgursky 6y ago

It's very hard to take toxic amounts of vitamin D: > "Taking 60,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D for several months has been shown to cause toxicity. This level is many times higher than the U.S. Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for most adults of 600 IU of vitamin D a day. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...) Not saying it's impossible, but that's the equivalent of buying the top result on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-Vitamin-Strength-Softgels/dp/B008GC9T6A https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-Vitamin-Strength-Softgels...) and taking 12 polls a day for several months. It's not actually impossible to get to toxic levels... but that's a serious commitment.

mlyle 6y ago
Acute toxicity is not the only risk. E.g. risks of bone fractures increase at a few thousand IU a day.
- dqv 6y ago
  Is that with or without vitamin K2 co-supplementation?
Alex3917 6y ago
The toxic dose is 4,000 IU per day though, so you would normally want to be taking well below that except maybe on a short-term basis.
- fencepost 6y ago
  That seems low, considering that 5000iu softgels are very readily available (eg the vit D supplements at Costco). Edit: acute toxic dose not established, chronic toxic dose >50k iu/day. https://www.medscape.com/answers/819426-102369/at-what-dose-is-vitamin-d-toxic https://www.medscape.com/answers/819426-102369/at-what-dose-... Edit2: this article lists 4000 IU/day as the generally recognized as safe level https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#1.-Elevated-blood-levels https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects#...