18 ms·

Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014)

436 points by jeremylevy 6y ago

tyingq 6y ago
I've noticed a movement with newspapers and other media sites to go one farther with a pop-up overlay begging for subscription where I have to hunt for the close button.
- plumsempy 6y ago
  and then there are those who don't have a close button and make me open up the console, delete that DOM element and restore the scroll. Had to once so it on a website that was teaching javascript, which was ironic.
  - TheMerovingian 6y ago
    Someone should make an extension that does this automatically.
    - notRobot 6y ago
      uBlock Origin has annoyance filters that do just this
      - bredren 6y ago
        I did not realize this, thanks for the note. I had 0/7 of these turned on.
    - fucknugget 6y ago
      Yeah. Someone should make my dinner too.
- JxLS-cpgbe0 6y ago
  They convert I'm afraid, and it's a good place to remind the reader that this is a product they use
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    What does this "conversion" mean? The ultimate objective would be for some $$$ to leave the user's wallet and go into the company's wallet, and I am not sure if this actually happens. First off, people who give out their email easily would typically do so on plenty of other sites and your subsequent upselling emails are likely to get lost in an inbox flooded by spam. Second, I'd argue that people who have the most disposable income or influence on purchasing decisions made by their company are also those whose time is limited and are too smart to fall for such tricks, so the majority of leads you do end up with would be worthless.
    - JxLS-cpgbe0 6y ago
      > What does this "conversion" mean It means converting from a free user to a paid subscriber > I am not sure if this actually happens un/fortunately it happens quite a bit
- bradgessler 6y ago
  I’d like to see somebody create a real paper newspaper that mimics what they have become today. I’d imagine you’d start with the newspaper as it was 20 years ago: newsprint with some black text on it. Then you’d overlay some opaque paper over that with some text in it that said, “give us your address or phone number so we can contact you for breaking news”. Instead of a close button it would be something that people would have to tear off each page of the paper. That’s not all though. Each paper would come with an actual person who would sit behind you and quietly take meticulous notes on which articles you read and how you reacted to them. That person would quietly leave with the notes, take it back to HQ, and tabulate which articles people engaged with the most. Over time the content with the lowest engagement would be trimmed and those journalists fired. This is the world we live in today.
  - gk1 6y ago
    Not really, because you would have paid for that paper. I get the criticisms about paywalls and pop ups and all that, but let’s acknowledge that they have to make money somehow or they won’t last.
    - jbay808 6y ago
      They don't track your reading metrics when you're a subscriber?
    - criddell 6y ago
      Paying for a digital subscription doesn't relieve you of those problems. They still want to send you notifications and they still track you as you use their site.
      - sjy 6y ago
        In fact, if you are used to ad blocking in the web browser, it can make the problem worse! Every digital subscription I’ve paid for put me onto multiple mailing lists, some of which are active multiple times a week, and required me to unsubscribe from them individually.
    - 6y ago
- mikro2nd 6y ago
  Add the "Kill Sticky" script/button to your bookmark bar. Problem solved.
kevmo314 6y ago
On the other hand, I do appreciate the relative consistency with "Sign Up". Because it's de facto standard, I know what to expect when I click that button. Sometimes I want to create an account and seeing a button like "Start Drawing" doesn't tell me what to expect. Some of the ones in the happy medium seem good though, like "Create a Free Account" or "Sign Up Free".
- tapland 6y ago
  “Start Drawing” taking me to a sign up page is more likely to make me close the tab since I feel cheated. It’s not called the standard “Sign Up” so I expect to be taken to something other than a sign up page.
gk1 6y ago
The sites referenced in the post have changed since 2014, yet I stand by the recommendation: Tie your offers and calls-to-action to what your visitors want. An interesting one is from Cloudflare, they have a call-to-action in their main menu: “Under attack?”
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  But see also this parallel comment from kevmo314: > I do appreciate the relative consistency with "Sign Up". Because it's de facto standard, I know what to expect when I click that button. Sometimes I want to create an account and seeing a button like "Start Drawing" doesn't tell me what to expect. I wonder whether it might be advantageous to include the same option twice in a menu, once as "Sign Up" and once as whatever you prefer. Though in the CloudFlare example, I'd tend to expect "sign up" to link to a page that was mostly about pricing, and "under attack?" to link to a page that was mostly about how CloudFlare helps with that.
  - gk1 6y ago
    In their case Sign Up goes to an account creation page, and Under Attack? goes to a sales form that (presumably) will page a sales development rep (SDR) to wake up, qualify the lead, and fetch a solutions engineer and sales exec duo. In any case, the implied lesson in the article is to A/B test different ideas and see what works, rather than sticking to the default.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    I think the button coloring makes up for that. I've signed up for loads of services in the last month and the primary colored bright button being the CTA has been consistent enough for me. In any case, the numbers are the numbers. Whatever gets most people into an account is what it is. Many guys just fail that part: fill in a thing and we'll contact you. Yeah, no thanks. It's a $200 / mo product not a mortgage. Spare me.
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > In any case, the numbers are the numbers. Whatever gets most people into an account is what it is. This doesn't really seem to respond to the idea that you can have more than one label present doing the same thing.
ramoz 6y ago
Need YouTube to stop asking me for a premium free trial
- jmole 6y ago
  If you use YouTube so much that a free trial offer bothers you, you might just consider subscribing. Ad-free YouTube is a glorious experience.
  - ahmedalsudani 6y ago
    Long ago, I decided Google will not get a single penny from my purse, and I have lived up to that. Ad-free YouTube = ad blocker in a browser ... while that lasts :) To preempt the question about content creators: I support the creators I want to support on patreon or by pledging on their website.
    - yesplorer 6y ago
      Your usage of YouTube cost Google money. If you believe Google doesn't deserve your money, why consume their product?
      - foxdev 6y ago
        Probably the same reason people used IE6 after it went stagnant. What was your choice? It's not like most YouTube channels have websites they publish stuff to as an alternative.
      - phone8675309 6y ago
        Their product is the platform. I’m not there to consume the platform. I’m there to watch videos uploaded by a third party. I could care less who hosts it. If you want people to view your ads then don’t serve content using a protocol that have user agents that run on my machine where I am in control of what they do, or at least if you do, don’t be surprised when I run user agents that do what I want them to do. Google's alternative is to embed the ads directly into the video at presentation time (which also won’t work so long as I can fast forward).
arsalanb 6y ago
Often times if "sign up" feels like a blind commitment, it is the copy or narrative arc of the landing page that is poor and not just the CTA. Also, in some cases (eg: platforms that have multiple equally important but diverse features, like infrastructure as a service companies) there is not one clear "action" to prompt the user and "Sign up" feels a bit more neutral.
benrbray 6y ago
More importantly, stop showing me "Sign Up" buttons if I'm already logged in! And when I'm logged out, don't hide the "Sign In" button from me! I can never remember if it's https://www.google.com/drive/ https://www.google.com/drive/ or https://drive.google.com/ https://drive.google.com/. For the longest time, the first link was just a splash advertisement for Drive with a big "Sign Up" button, and no clear way to actually get to my drive folder. GitHub has a similar issue, as do countless other websites that I use on a daily basis.
- edoceo 6y ago
  Reddit too, it's like they don't expect users to come back. Perhaps another example of managers chasing the wrong metrics
  - hinkley 6y ago
    We’ve been dealing with this for decades at least. Employee retention can often cost much less than hiring and training a replacement, but nobody worries about that until the problem is too big to shrug off. I don’t know where they expect this infinite pool of new users is coming from at this point.
    - edoceo 6y ago
      My theory is it's just alt accounts for trolls or "unsavory" content (eg: adult, politics, WSB)
  - vezycash 6y ago
    About a month ago, reddit sent me an email to "verify my account" - an account I've had for years. I clicked the link to activate it only for another "verify your account" email to appear a few weeks later which I promptly deleted.
  - Zenbit_UX 6y ago
    I think part of it is individuals with mainstream browser settings thinking that because Chrome and reddit remember them every time due to the lack of privacy oriented settings on their system that that happens to everyone. They might have to hit login once every few months and forget what it's like. Others get so caught up in their own usage habit that they forget others don't want to be prompted to login when they hit reply to a comment (which causes a page reload and they lose their place in the comments) but would rather login up front before commenting.
tester756 6y ago
I'm avoiding shops that require me to sign in in order to purchase things Why would you need me to login in order to purchase thing? that's weird.
- URSpider94 6y ago
  Most sites have the pattern that you can buy as a guest, but the reason for creating an account is obvious: it massively reduces friction for repeat customers, which is good for customers and good for the business.
annoyingnoob 6y ago
> You're not offering any value. Asking someone to "sign up" offers no help in changing the visitor's thinking from "Why should I?" to "I want this!" >Give, don't take. "Get Access" and "Sign Up" both lead to the same thing, but one makes the visitor feel they're getting something, while the other doesn't. I think these are really important points. Provide something of value to find loyalty.
rini17 6y ago
This is mainly an UI issue. Browser vendors were disincentivised to offer straight authentication API both easy to implement for websites and easy to use for users, because it was seen as threatening to users' privacy. Maybe it is harder than I think, like, why can't the browser maintain an identity/profile and allow me to use it to one-click sign in to any website? But I don't see anyone really trying, only saved passwords hacks. Or it is supplied by Facebook and Google instead of your browser.
- manigandham 6y ago
  Why is it a hack? Saving the password does make it 1 click now.
  - rini17 6y ago
    But you are supposed to make a new password for every service when signing in. And fill in your name. Browser may detect there's registration form and autofill but it's ad-hoc, there isn't any standard for that.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - manigandham 6y ago
      The standard is WebAuthn: https://webauthn.io/ https://webauthn.io/ Otherwise there are HTML5 input field autocompletes which tell the browser what the field is for. Chrome is very good with this and you can fill out an email + new password in seconds.
- ralfd 6y ago
  Tja. Facebook and Google account login filled that void.
  - netsharc 6y ago
    And then Cambridge Analytica came along and abused the moronic security of Login with Facebook (fine, AFAIK technically it was quizes on the FB platform) and 4 years later we have... I don't know, people dying because they injected bleach into their body because their Dear Leader said "we should look into that"...
nostromo 6y ago
Don't "growth hack" your sign up, just remove it completely if at all possible, or push it as late as possible in the process (after the user has engaged with the product). This is one of the lessons of TikTok. Virtually every SV startup asks you to sign up now, provide a ton of information about yourself, and then spam you relentlessly with marketing email. Part of TikTok's genius is that you just open up the app and you're immediately interacting with the content.
- McDev 6y ago
  I was intrigued by this comment and downloaded TikTok, only to find that they now push for sign up immediately!
  - m463 6y ago
    1) provide a good service 2) gain market share 3) gain marketing patterns
GekkePrutser 6y ago
This article is from 2014, right now my annoyance is more all these apps with low self esteem. Always this stupid question "do you like this app" and then redirecting me to the play store to vote if I say yes or the support site when I say no. And to make matters worse they keep doing it every few days. Once is passable, over and over is NOT. I've started to give 1-star reviews to these apps. So sick of this behaviour. Especially many of Microsoft's corporate apps do this (like outlook or teams) and most people download these because they need them, not because of some rating. edit: I mean I do the 1-star thing with the apps which keep asking. If they ask once I just don't do the review (If I really love the app I would have left a 5-star review anyway). But once it comes up again I do this.
- URSpider94 6y ago
  App developers do this because, gasp, it works. Filtering reviews this way absolutely, quantitatively, repeatedly boosts app ratings, and apps with higher ratings get more downloads. Don’t expect developers to stop doing this just because it annoys you.
  - ulucs 6y ago
    Unless enough people start giving one stars because of such filtering :^)
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    We should not be justifying shitty negative externalities because "they help the developer". We should be destroying existing systems and reforming them so that everyone is happy
    - sdkjfnnjjj 6y ago
      What mechanism would you propose?
      - tomc1985 6y ago
        Ratings systems have been gamed to meaninglessness. First stop would probably be removing those. I realize that creates more discovery problems, but I think that can be ameliorated somewhat by making more use of professional reviewers and app-store integrations with publications like Wirecutter or Consumer Reports.
z3ncyberpunk 6y ago
This is horrible advice. There is no problem with sign in. Shit like "Try it free" just feels like I'm being sold something already and you instantly lost my business.
f69281c 6y ago
This laser focus on GET HIM TO SIGN UP puts me in a defensive, adversarial position. How about you leave me alone and let me use the service? If it's useful to me then I'll absolutely figure out how to sign up, and semantic nonsense like the fact the the button is titled "sign up" is absolutely not stopping me. What semantic nonsense like this WILL affect: you're creating a glut of disinterested users and firmly establishing your brand's identity as "one of those emails I have to delete every once in a while. I should cancel that thing or just filter it to spam". Now your metrics are blurry. >"Sign Up" buttons don't work because You're asking for blind commitment and not providing any value not solved by renaming the button.
- gogopuppygogo 6y ago
  You can always buy a domain at http://domains.Google http://domains.Google with free email forwarding then forward say samantha@mydomain.com to samantha@mailinator.com This gives you the ability to create accounts on sites to try them out, while being able to check emails without paying for email service or getting spam forwards to your real email. Makes it impractical for the provider of the service to block the forward without blocking Google clients. I used to just use Mailinator mx records but providers wised up and started doing mx record checks.
anm89 6y ago
Couldn't disagree more. In my experience buttons like "Start Drawing" are gateways to convoluted wizard signups in which I'm going to be asked to give out a bunch of informataion, possibly to find out 5 minutes in that whatever I wanted is beyond a pay wall or comes with conditions. If that button is integrated with on page content and not in the header and the flow feels natural than I'm much more open to it. If the rest of the site makes me want to sign up, then I'm going to look around for something clearly indicating that I can sign up or create an account. I will say that over years in web design I have found that my preferences correspond very poorly with average preferences but I personally consider what they are saying to be an anti pattern.
simonw 6y ago
Past experience had shown me that if your your signup button is called "Get Started" I simply won't see it! My favourite example of this tiny anti-pattern is https://kepler.gl/ https://kepler.gl/ They offer amazing open source software for GIS. You can install it from GitHub - but if you click the "Get Started" button they will drop you into a hosted experience (no signup required) which is just insanely useful. It took me far too long to figure this out, because I didn't think to click on "Get Started". (Even "start using" would have been a huge improvement)
- solarkraft 6y ago
  Yeah, what the hell do "Get started" and "Learn more" mean? I have clicked these generic CTAs <a low single digit number> times in my life.
  - Zenbit_UX 6y ago
    I don't mind learn more but it's suspicious enough that I'll definitely hover over the button to see the full url and if it goes to a page like /myproduct/details we're cool but if learn more redirects to /signup the site instantly appears sketchy and like I'm part of some optimize sales funnel.
amelius 6y ago
Imho these should be handled by the browser, so the user can tweak their UI. Just like cookie popups, by the way.
slap_shot 6y ago
Anyone else find this a bit pedantic? As a consumer of a website, I infer what service is being offered. I doubt I even bother reading the CTA buttons - I just know I need to click some things to start getting the service I read about. > They're ignored I don't ignore the button - it is the exact same pattern on every website. I'm just following a flow. > You're asking for blind commitment It's not a blind commitment. I want to try something, they need me to create an account. It's reasonable. > You're not offering any value. The button isn't offering the value - the rest of the website is. The button is just the next step in getting the value (see #1).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Wistar 6y ago
From a year earlier, and related: Ars Technica: "No, I won’t install your app or subscribe to your newsletter." https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/the-unwelcome-apps-and-newsletters-of-the-internet/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/the-u...
- WWLink 6y ago
  I had to turn off notifications in my browser because every page would pop the question. Like. NO! Notifications are evil.
  - samatman 6y ago
    The number of websites for which I want notifications isn't zero. It's drastically smaller than the ones which bug me about it, and no, it doesn't include your regional news site or niche vertical blog, and it never will.
    - WWLink 6y ago
      > The number of websites for which I want notifications isn't zero. It is zero for me! I consider notifications the greatest annoyance a computer can give me. Like, I hate it when a computer complains to me when I unplug a USB device without ejecting it.
  - Razengan 6y ago
    Yet some devs here clamor for Apple to allow them to inflict “Add to Home Screen” prompts and background processing in browsers upon iOS users. Whenever I see someone saying Apple should “open” their platform up to that kind of shit, I know exactly whose products to avoid.
    - WWLink 6y ago
      There are ways to block those things at an OS level. However, I've given up on the idea of using an iPhone like a computer. Mine gets used for phone calls, text messages, checking my email, and when I need to look something up on a website when I'm not near a computer. Gaming on it is a disaster. The store is full of garbage and Apple's subscription service doesn't have a single game I'm interested in. Everyone got too hooked on the "it's free but pay us $30/month in fake currency!" thing. I can't even find a friggin hex calculator app without finding 20 versions that have in-app purchases. WTF? Then there's nonsense like if you have an apple watch. Oh you have an iPhone 6 and want an Apple watch S6? Gee what a shame. You have an iPhone 6 and updated your S4? Yeah that's not going to work anymore. You reinstalled your OS? Now let's spend 10 minutes re-pairing your watch! Then there's stupid bugs. I had to restart my iphone after being on a month because Siri wouldn't work until it did. Even then - there was a long stretch of time where Siri wouldn't work when I was in the car for no reason. I'd just get "Sorry I'm having trouble with the connection" no matter what.
hyko 6y ago
Headline: Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” Above headline: A banner asking me to sign up for a newsletter.
ziml77 6y ago
The other thing that would improve the chances of me completing the sign-up flow is not asking for more information than absolutely needed. If I log into a site with my Google account, it's because I didn't want to pick a username, add yet another password to my password manager, or give you my email address.
- RMPR 6y ago
  > or give you my email address. I don't understand, if you sign up with your Google account you already give your email address no?
  - ziml77 6y ago
    I actually have no idea. I would think so but I know I've been asked to enter it, at least on some sites. But if they do get the email address, it would be nice if Google gave them some sort of proxy address and required that anyone using Google sign-in accepted that address instead of requesting the real one.
    - solarkraft 6y ago
      Apple does this, Google doesn't. Signing up with your Google account may also allow the app to see way more than you might want - always check the permission request. "Read your e-mails" and "Post videos on YouTube" may well be in there. It would be a great move for Google to offer something like Apple's proxy sign-up.
      - ziml77 6y ago
        The only way those permissions are sneaking by me is if I sneeze right when the page shows up so my eyes are shut and the movement causes me to accidentally click "allow".
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Perhaps a related gripe: "Sign Up?" with "Yes" and "Maybe later", that proceeds to ask me to sign up every single time I go to the site. How about a "Never" or "Stop asking" option?
- dylan604 6y ago
  If you're blocking cookies, how are they going to know you clicked the 'Never' option?
rewq4321 6y ago
Even better: If possible, don't ask for a signup until the user has actually tried your product. Just create a guest account which is deleted if unclaimed for a week or so, and disable "sensitive" features that could be abused. I have a couple of sites where I allow them to use the product just like a signed-in user, but to save their work, they need to sign in. So people can play around and try things about before entrusting me with their email.
- solarkraft 6y ago
  That's a great way of doing it: The initial friction is essentially 0 and you're already locking the user in a bit.
- snazz 6y ago
  This is how Discord works and it’s really great there. Anyone can start chatting with just an invite link.
- waynecochran 6y ago
  This page immediately had a pop up to ask for my email... funny...
- WWLink 6y ago
  Oh man, some web stores are like that! It's sooooooo nice. Like, you place your order as a guest and at the end it's like "hey if you give us a password we'll make an account for you!" THOSE ARE THE BEST!
  - diggan 6y ago
    And you then sign up to ShoppingSpree.com in order to get your thing delivered. Email verification comes in, everything set. You get to the final order screen, enter your address and now they tell you they don't ship to your country, and the information was never shown before, as they never actually performed the validation until after you signed up. Yeah, been through that. So much fun.
    - 6y ago
solarkraft 6y ago
I'm not sure. "Start Trading Bitcoins" is a bit generic and long, but may be fine when always visible. "Get access" may not be something one would even be required to sign up for. An advantage of "Sign Up" is it's consistency: My usual flow is that I'll look around the website to see whether it's something worth signing up for and when I finally decide to do it something like "Start trading Bitcoins" might throw me off. Here's another sign-up-related UX-crime however: Disrespecting your current users. A lot of services bundle their log in/sign up functionality and prioritize the "sign up" part so much that it becomes incredibly hard to find, especially when it's a fancy short sign up form that looks like one for logging in. It always sends a clear signal about how much you care about people signing up to your service vs. people actually using it. Tumblr is a great example of the opposite: They just present a "log in" page by default and make the "sign up" a little harder to find: This creates just a tiny bit of FOMO ("huh, how do I sign up? Is it invite-only?") and makes the user feel better about actually signing up. Of course Tumblr is a social medium for teenagers and not a SaaS, but in general anything one is expected to use at least semi-frequently should not be difficult to log in to. A good option is to put the forms on equal footing or just ask for the e-mail address and direct the user depending on whether it's already registered.
Razengan 6y ago
All this is why I love Sign In With Apple. Some devs just aren’t going to change, so this at least reduces the friction and lets me try their crap without giving them my email or any other info.
- RegW 6y ago
  I didn't know "Sign in With Apple" existed - I wonder why?
  - Razengan 6y ago
    It’s opt-in but I think a requirement for publishing on the App Store if you offer singing-in with Facebook/Google etc. It’s becoming more common on iOS and it’s all I use now wherever it’s available.
8bitsrule 6y ago
No kidding. I might 'sign up' after I've visited your page/ tried out your thing ten times on ten different days and found that it was worth my while. Likely not. I warned the encyclopedia salesman that I didn't need a reference work. He went ahead and pitched me. I humored him for a half-hour. Then I asked him, after he'd finished, if he believed me now. I'm still enjoying my time-investment. The bigger and more prominent the button, the more needy it looks. It's gotten to the point that when I see that I just close the tab.
devmunchies 6y ago
off-topic, but he shared a picture of an A/B test result. I've used several SaaS A/B test products but am not satisfied with any (built for marketers, not engineers) I just want a service where I can pipe all relevant live experiment data and it does the statistics to tell me the statistical significance and has some dashboarding. Anything like that exist? Self-hosted? I don't need something that injects itself into my site or even sets up the experiment.
- gk1 6y ago
  Screenshot is from Optimizely, which unfortunately is not what you're looking for. I've only ever used them and Google Optimize (my current go-to), which is not self-hosted.
knl 6y ago
Ironically, this website does the same...
chefgoldbluum 6y ago
This sort of sounds like bullshit. It's definitely conjecture as there's nothing concrete to back it up. My own conjecture: Use nuance, but in general if someone is on your landing page they have some idea of what your product is. "Sign Up" is a well established convention that immediately signals to the user you have a platform model that requires or adds benefit through authentication. Anyway this article is from 2014 and most big platforms still use Sign Up.
godot 6y ago
I'm probably in the minority here and I can't speak for any startup I worked for, but persoonally, I prefer "Sign Up" way more than any of those other variations. It's familiar, I don't ignore it, and I have a pretty good sense of what to expect (giving my email, making up a password, and getting a verification email and clicking on it). Most of the other examples are problematic for me personally when I imagine what's involved: "Try it Free" or "Free Trial" makes me think they want my credit card upfront, "Get Access" sounds like they want me to jump through some hoops, "Get Started" sounds like the beginning of a long painful series of steps. But I guess if those get 3x clicks, I must be in the minority.
- collaborative 6y ago
  These expert tips try to say "this works for x, so it must work for all". I don't agree. I also think that there is a point in keeping things simple. Keeping things simple has been the key to success of many great companies
- stinos 6y ago
  I feel the same. By now pretty everyone knows what 'Sign Up' means so it's as clear as can be. All the others are obfuscation - I especially dislike the one which gets a special mention: 'Start Drawing'. I'm not going to call it a lie because yes indeed it will eventually lead you to start drawing, but to me it's like trying to fool users. It sounds like you can start right away, but no, you have to sign up first.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    As an English non-native, I sometimes still confuses which is a link to login, "Sign In" or "Sign Up".
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago
  Well said, and I fully agree - though the hacker news crew is rarely ever in the majority when it comes to internet demographics. It must work well considering the A/B test screenshot he included.
musicale 6y ago
> Asking visitors to Try it Free increased clicks by 212%. And ask for a credit card, right? Leading into the dark pattern of "forced continuity": "When your free trial with a service comes to an end and your credit card silently starts getting charged without any warning. You are then not given an easy way to cancel the automatic renewal." https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/forced-continuity.html https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/forced-contin...
musicale 6y ago
> Compel people to act. Use action verbs such as get, start, and try. I don't enjoy being "compelled to act" when action involves handing over my credit card number (or email address, etc..) Oh no, my large friend isn't here to hurt you - he's just here to compel you to act.
jonnycomputer 6y ago
I had thought that the article was going to be a complaint about how the emphasis on sign-up frequently ends up making it more annoying for existing users who just want to log in. Looks like I'm not alone in seeing how many people commented on this issue.
gwbas1c 6y ago
The worst, IMO, are excessive calls to action with incomplete or vague information about what the product is, or what it's feature set is. Always feels like someone's hiding something.
SPBS 6y ago
Interesting, "Sign Up" is bad but "Sign Up Free" performs better (even though signing up is usually free). I guess humans really are just monkey-brain and need incentive keywords to appear so that they're interested.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Irks me because the whole 'sign up' thingy is unnecessary. How about, I give a key when I visit a site. If I want to be recognized the next time I come I'll give the same key.
throw149102 6y ago
I was hoping this article was going in the direction of "Making it clearer what startups are providing for free and what they're providing for a cost" but unfortunately it's just about the wording of your sign up button. I was trying to download Postman to test something out earlier this week, and not only is there no button on the webpage to go to downloads, but even when you download the app it still prompts you to sign up/log in with a tiny greyed out link at the bottom saying "Skip signing in". If you want to really drive sales, stop with this user-hostile adversarial bullshit and start putting my needs first. For me, this article is still putting the companies needs first.
jondubois 6y ago
So true. I guess it's a way for giant mega-corporate monopolies to make themselves seem smaller and less monopolistic than they actually are.
devilduck 6y ago
Too many sign ups, and then once you've signed up, too many sites make it very difficult to close and delete your account. I'm looking at you HN.
shmerl 6y ago
Some services like Instagram are extremely obnoxious about it and those who aren't registered there get annoying pop ups to sign up that block the whole screen all the time.
cnst 6y ago
Article: stop asking me to "sign-up". Same article: take 1/3 of the screen on mobile for a button to signup.
fallingfrog 6y ago
Not to mention that “sign up” conjures up images of signing your name on something, entering in to some kind of contract. What am I signing up for? What are my obligations? Do I need a lawyer present? Maybe safer to just close the window.. I know that’s not the intent, but that’s the mental image. Signing up means joining the army to me.

436 points by jeremylevy 6y ago

I've noticed a movement with newspapers and other media sites to go one farther with a pop-up overlay begging for subscription where I have to hunt for the close button.

plumsempy 6y ago
and then there are those who don't have a close button and make me open up the console, delete that DOM element and restore the scroll. Had to once so it on a website that was teaching javascript, which was ironic.
- TheMerovingian 6y ago
  Someone should make an extension that does this automatically.
  - notRobot 6y ago
    uBlock Origin has annoyance filters that do just this
    - bredren 6y ago
      I did not realize this, thanks for the note. I had 0/7 of these turned on.
  - fucknugget 6y ago
    Yeah. Someone should make my dinner too.
JxLS-cpgbe0 6y ago
They convert I'm afraid, and it's a good place to remind the reader that this is a product they use
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  What does this "conversion" mean? The ultimate objective would be for some $$$ to leave the user's wallet and go into the company's wallet, and I am not sure if this actually happens. First off, people who give out their email easily would typically do so on plenty of other sites and your subsequent upselling emails are likely to get lost in an inbox flooded by spam. Second, I'd argue that people who have the most disposable income or influence on purchasing decisions made by their company are also those whose time is limited and are too smart to fall for such tricks, so the majority of leads you do end up with would be worthless.
  - JxLS-cpgbe0 6y ago
    > What does this "conversion" mean It means converting from a free user to a paid subscriber > I am not sure if this actually happens un/fortunately it happens quite a bit
bradgessler 6y ago
I’d like to see somebody create a real paper newspaper that mimics what they have become today. I’d imagine you’d start with the newspaper as it was 20 years ago: newsprint with some black text on it. Then you’d overlay some opaque paper over that with some text in it that said, “give us your address or phone number so we can contact you for breaking news”. Instead of a close button it would be something that people would have to tear off each page of the paper. That’s not all though. Each paper would come with an actual person who would sit behind you and quietly take meticulous notes on which articles you read and how you reacted to them. That person would quietly leave with the notes, take it back to HQ, and tabulate which articles people engaged with the most. Over time the content with the lowest engagement would be trimmed and those journalists fired. This is the world we live in today.
- gk1 6y ago
  Not really, because you would have paid for that paper. I get the criticisms about paywalls and pop ups and all that, but let’s acknowledge that they have to make money somehow or they won’t last.
  - jbay808 6y ago
    They don't track your reading metrics when you're a subscriber?
  - criddell 6y ago
    Paying for a digital subscription doesn't relieve you of those problems. They still want to send you notifications and they still track you as you use their site.
    - sjy 6y ago
      In fact, if you are used to ad blocking in the web browser, it can make the problem worse! Every digital subscription I’ve paid for put me onto multiple mailing lists, some of which are active multiple times a week, and required me to unsubscribe from them individually.
  - 6y ago
mikro2nd 6y ago
Add the "Kill Sticky" script/button to your bookmark bar. Problem solved.

kevmo314 6y ago

On the other hand, I do appreciate the relative consistency with "Sign Up". Because it's de facto standard, I know what to expect when I click that button. Sometimes I want to create an account and seeing a button like "Start Drawing" doesn't tell me what to expect. Some of the ones in the happy medium seem good though, like "Create a Free Account" or "Sign Up Free".

tapland 6y ago
“Start Drawing” taking me to a sign up page is more likely to make me close the tab since I feel cheated. It’s not called the standard “Sign Up” so I expect to be taken to something other than a sign up page.

gk1 6y ago

The sites referenced in the post have changed since 2014, yet I stand by the recommendation: Tie your offers and calls-to-action to what your visitors want. An interesting one is from Cloudflare, they have a call-to-action in their main menu: “Under attack?”

thaumasiotes 6y ago
But see also this parallel comment from kevmo314: > I do appreciate the relative consistency with "Sign Up". Because it's de facto standard, I know what to expect when I click that button. Sometimes I want to create an account and seeing a button like "Start Drawing" doesn't tell me what to expect. I wonder whether it might be advantageous to include the same option twice in a menu, once as "Sign Up" and once as whatever you prefer. Though in the CloudFlare example, I'd tend to expect "sign up" to link to a page that was mostly about pricing, and "under attack?" to link to a page that was mostly about how CloudFlare helps with that.
- gk1 6y ago
  In their case Sign Up goes to an account creation page, and Under Attack? goes to a sales form that (presumably) will page a sales development rep (SDR) to wake up, qualify the lead, and fetch a solutions engineer and sales exec duo. In any case, the implied lesson in the article is to A/B test different ideas and see what works, rather than sticking to the default.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  I think the button coloring makes up for that. I've signed up for loads of services in the last month and the primary colored bright button being the CTA has been consistent enough for me. In any case, the numbers are the numbers. Whatever gets most people into an account is what it is. Many guys just fail that part: fill in a thing and we'll contact you. Yeah, no thanks. It's a $200 / mo product not a mortgage. Spare me.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    > In any case, the numbers are the numbers. Whatever gets most people into an account is what it is. This doesn't really seem to respond to the idea that you can have more than one label present doing the same thing.

ramoz 6y ago

Need YouTube to stop asking me for a premium free trial

jmole 6y ago
If you use YouTube so much that a free trial offer bothers you, you might just consider subscribing. Ad-free YouTube is a glorious experience.
- ahmedalsudani 6y ago
  Long ago, I decided Google will not get a single penny from my purse, and I have lived up to that. Ad-free YouTube = ad blocker in a browser ... while that lasts :) To preempt the question about content creators: I support the creators I want to support on patreon or by pledging on their website.
  - yesplorer 6y ago
    Your usage of YouTube cost Google money. If you believe Google doesn't deserve your money, why consume their product?
    - foxdev 6y ago
      Probably the same reason people used IE6 after it went stagnant. What was your choice? It's not like most YouTube channels have websites they publish stuff to as an alternative.
    - phone8675309 6y ago
      Their product is the platform. I’m not there to consume the platform. I’m there to watch videos uploaded by a third party. I could care less who hosts it. If you want people to view your ads then don’t serve content using a protocol that have user agents that run on my machine where I am in control of what they do, or at least if you do, don’t be surprised when I run user agents that do what I want them to do. Google's alternative is to embed the ads directly into the video at presentation time (which also won’t work so long as I can fast forward).

arsalanb 6y ago

Often times if "sign up" feels like a blind commitment, it is the copy or narrative arc of the landing page that is poor and not just the CTA. Also, in some cases (eg: platforms that have multiple equally important but diverse features, like infrastructure as a service companies) there is not one clear "action" to prompt the user and "Sign up" feels a bit more neutral.

benrbray 6y ago

More importantly, stop showing me "Sign Up" buttons if I'm already logged in! And when I'm logged out, don't hide the "Sign In" button from me! I can never remember if it's https://www.google.com/drive/ https://www.google.com/drive/ or https://drive.google.com/ https://drive.google.com/. For the longest time, the first link was just a splash advertisement for Drive with a big "Sign Up" button, and no clear way to actually get to my drive folder. GitHub has a similar issue, as do countless other websites that I use on a daily basis.

edoceo 6y ago
Reddit too, it's like they don't expect users to come back. Perhaps another example of managers chasing the wrong metrics
- hinkley 6y ago
  We’ve been dealing with this for decades at least. Employee retention can often cost much less than hiring and training a replacement, but nobody worries about that until the problem is too big to shrug off. I don’t know where they expect this infinite pool of new users is coming from at this point.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    My theory is it's just alt accounts for trolls or "unsavory" content (eg: adult, politics, WSB)
- vezycash 6y ago
  About a month ago, reddit sent me an email to "verify my account" - an account I've had for years. I clicked the link to activate it only for another "verify your account" email to appear a few weeks later which I promptly deleted.
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago
  I think part of it is individuals with mainstream browser settings thinking that because Chrome and reddit remember them every time due to the lack of privacy oriented settings on their system that that happens to everyone. They might have to hit login once every few months and forget what it's like. Others get so caught up in their own usage habit that they forget others don't want to be prompted to login when they hit reply to a comment (which causes a page reload and they lose their place in the comments) but would rather login up front before commenting.

tester756 6y ago

I'm avoiding shops that require me to sign in in order to purchase things Why would you need me to login in order to purchase thing? that's weird.

URSpider94 6y ago
Most sites have the pattern that you can buy as a guest, but the reason for creating an account is obvious: it massively reduces friction for repeat customers, which is good for customers and good for the business.

annoyingnoob 6y ago

> You're not offering any value. Asking someone to "sign up" offers no help in changing the visitor's thinking from "Why should I?" to "I want this!" >Give, don't take. "Get Access" and "Sign Up" both lead to the same thing, but one makes the visitor feel they're getting something, while the other doesn't. I think these are really important points. Provide something of value to find loyalty.

rini17 6y ago

This is mainly an UI issue. Browser vendors were disincentivised to offer straight authentication API both easy to implement for websites and easy to use for users, because it was seen as threatening to users' privacy. Maybe it is harder than I think, like, why can't the browser maintain an identity/profile and allow me to use it to one-click sign in to any website? But I don't see anyone really trying, only saved passwords hacks. Or it is supplied by Facebook and Google instead of your browser.

manigandham 6y ago
Why is it a hack? Saving the password does make it 1 click now.
- rini17 6y ago
  But you are supposed to make a new password for every service when signing in. And fill in your name. Browser may detect there's registration form and autofill but it's ad-hoc, there isn't any standard for that.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - manigandham 6y ago
    The standard is WebAuthn: https://webauthn.io/ https://webauthn.io/ Otherwise there are HTML5 input field autocompletes which tell the browser what the field is for. Chrome is very good with this and you can fill out an email + new password in seconds.
ralfd 6y ago
Tja. Facebook and Google account login filled that void.
- netsharc 6y ago
  And then Cambridge Analytica came along and abused the moronic security of Login with Facebook (fine, AFAIK technically it was quizes on the FB platform) and 4 years later we have... I don't know, people dying because they injected bleach into their body because their Dear Leader said "we should look into that"...

nostromo 6y ago

Don't "growth hack" your sign up, just remove it completely if at all possible, or push it as late as possible in the process (after the user has engaged with the product). This is one of the lessons of TikTok. Virtually every SV startup asks you to sign up now, provide a ton of information about yourself, and then spam you relentlessly with marketing email. Part of TikTok's genius is that you just open up the app and you're immediately interacting with the content.

McDev 6y ago
I was intrigued by this comment and downloaded TikTok, only to find that they now push for sign up immediately!
- m463 6y ago
  1) provide a good service 2) gain market share 3) gain marketing patterns

GekkePrutser 6y ago

This article is from 2014, right now my annoyance is more all these apps with low self esteem. Always this stupid question "do you like this app" and then redirecting me to the play store to vote if I say yes or the support site when I say no. And to make matters worse they keep doing it every few days. Once is passable, over and over is NOT. I've started to give 1-star reviews to these apps. So sick of this behaviour. Especially many of Microsoft's corporate apps do this (like outlook or teams) and most people download these because they need them, not because of some rating. edit: I mean I do the 1-star thing with the apps which keep asking. If they ask once I just don't do the review (If I really love the app I would have left a 5-star review anyway). But once it comes up again I do this.

URSpider94 6y ago
App developers do this because, gasp, it works. Filtering reviews this way absolutely, quantitatively, repeatedly boosts app ratings, and apps with higher ratings get more downloads. Don’t expect developers to stop doing this just because it annoys you.
- ulucs 6y ago
  Unless enough people start giving one stars because of such filtering :^)
- tomc1985 6y ago
  We should not be justifying shitty negative externalities because "they help the developer". We should be destroying existing systems and reforming them so that everyone is happy
  - sdkjfnnjjj 6y ago
    What mechanism would you propose?
    - tomc1985 6y ago
      Ratings systems have been gamed to meaninglessness. First stop would probably be removing those. I realize that creates more discovery problems, but I think that can be ameliorated somewhat by making more use of professional reviewers and app-store integrations with publications like Wirecutter or Consumer Reports.

z3ncyberpunk 6y ago

This is horrible advice. There is no problem with sign in. Shit like "Try it free" just feels like I'm being sold something already and you instantly lost my business.

f69281c 6y ago

This laser focus on GET HIM TO SIGN UP puts me in a defensive, adversarial position. How about you leave me alone and let me use the service? If it's useful to me then I'll absolutely figure out how to sign up, and semantic nonsense like the fact the the button is titled "sign up" is absolutely not stopping me. What semantic nonsense like this WILL affect: you're creating a glut of disinterested users and firmly establishing your brand's identity as "one of those emails I have to delete every once in a while. I should cancel that thing or just filter it to spam". Now your metrics are blurry. >"Sign Up" buttons don't work because You're asking for blind commitment and not providing any value not solved by renaming the button.

gogopuppygogo 6y ago
You can always buy a domain at http://domains.Google http://domains.Google with free email forwarding then forward say samantha@mydomain.com to samantha@mailinator.com This gives you the ability to create accounts on sites to try them out, while being able to check emails without paying for email service or getting spam forwards to your real email. Makes it impractical for the provider of the service to block the forward without blocking Google clients. I used to just use Mailinator mx records but providers wised up and started doing mx record checks.

anm89 6y ago

Couldn't disagree more. In my experience buttons like "Start Drawing" are gateways to convoluted wizard signups in which I'm going to be asked to give out a bunch of informataion, possibly to find out 5 minutes in that whatever I wanted is beyond a pay wall or comes with conditions. If that button is integrated with on page content and not in the header and the flow feels natural than I'm much more open to it. If the rest of the site makes me want to sign up, then I'm going to look around for something clearly indicating that I can sign up or create an account. I will say that over years in web design I have found that my preferences correspond very poorly with average preferences but I personally consider what they are saying to be an anti pattern.

simonw 6y ago

Past experience had shown me that if your your signup button is called "Get Started" I simply won't see it! My favourite example of this tiny anti-pattern is https://kepler.gl/ https://kepler.gl/ They offer amazing open source software for GIS. You can install it from GitHub - but if you click the "Get Started" button they will drop you into a hosted experience (no signup required) which is just insanely useful. It took me far too long to figure this out, because I didn't think to click on "Get Started". (Even "start using" would have been a huge improvement)

solarkraft 6y ago
Yeah, what the hell do "Get started" and "Learn more" mean? I have clicked these generic CTAs <a low single digit number> times in my life.
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago
  I don't mind learn more but it's suspicious enough that I'll definitely hover over the button to see the full url and if it goes to a page like /myproduct/details we're cool but if learn more redirects to /signup the site instantly appears sketchy and like I'm part of some optimize sales funnel.

amelius 6y ago

Imho these should be handled by the browser, so the user can tweak their UI. Just like cookie popups, by the way.

slap_shot 6y ago

Anyone else find this a bit pedantic? As a consumer of a website, I infer what service is being offered. I doubt I even bother reading the CTA buttons - I just know I need to click some things to start getting the service I read about. > They're ignored I don't ignore the button - it is the exact same pattern on every website. I'm just following a flow. > You're asking for blind commitment It's not a blind commitment. I want to try something, they need me to create an account. It's reasonable. > You're not offering any value. The button isn't offering the value - the rest of the website is. The button is just the next step in getting the value (see #1).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Wistar 6y ago

From a year earlier, and related: Ars Technica: "No, I won’t install your app or subscribe to your newsletter." https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/the-unwelcome-apps-and-newsletters-of-the-internet/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/12/the-u...

WWLink 6y ago
I had to turn off notifications in my browser because every page would pop the question. Like. NO! Notifications are evil.
- samatman 6y ago
  The number of websites for which I want notifications isn't zero. It's drastically smaller than the ones which bug me about it, and no, it doesn't include your regional news site or niche vertical blog, and it never will.
  - WWLink 6y ago
    > The number of websites for which I want notifications isn't zero. It is zero for me! I consider notifications the greatest annoyance a computer can give me. Like, I hate it when a computer complains to me when I unplug a USB device without ejecting it.
- Razengan 6y ago
  Yet some devs here clamor for Apple to allow them to inflict “Add to Home Screen” prompts and background processing in browsers upon iOS users. Whenever I see someone saying Apple should “open” their platform up to that kind of shit, I know exactly whose products to avoid.
  - WWLink 6y ago
    There are ways to block those things at an OS level. However, I've given up on the idea of using an iPhone like a computer. Mine gets used for phone calls, text messages, checking my email, and when I need to look something up on a website when I'm not near a computer. Gaming on it is a disaster. The store is full of garbage and Apple's subscription service doesn't have a single game I'm interested in. Everyone got too hooked on the "it's free but pay us $30/month in fake currency!" thing. I can't even find a friggin hex calculator app without finding 20 versions that have in-app purchases. WTF? Then there's nonsense like if you have an apple watch. Oh you have an iPhone 6 and want an Apple watch S6? Gee what a shame. You have an iPhone 6 and updated your S4? Yeah that's not going to work anymore. You reinstalled your OS? Now let's spend 10 minutes re-pairing your watch! Then there's stupid bugs. I had to restart my iphone after being on a month because Siri wouldn't work until it did. Even then - there was a long stretch of time where Siri wouldn't work when I was in the car for no reason. I'd just get "Sorry I'm having trouble with the connection" no matter what.

hyko 6y ago

Headline: Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” Above headline: A banner asking me to sign up for a newsletter.

ziml77 6y ago

The other thing that would improve the chances of me completing the sign-up flow is not asking for more information than absolutely needed. If I log into a site with my Google account, it's because I didn't want to pick a username, add yet another password to my password manager, or give you my email address.

RMPR 6y ago
> or give you my email address. I don't understand, if you sign up with your Google account you already give your email address no?
- ziml77 6y ago
  I actually have no idea. I would think so but I know I've been asked to enter it, at least on some sites. But if they do get the email address, it would be nice if Google gave them some sort of proxy address and required that anyone using Google sign-in accepted that address instead of requesting the real one.
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    Apple does this, Google doesn't. Signing up with your Google account may also allow the app to see way more than you might want - always check the permission request. "Read your e-mails" and "Post videos on YouTube" may well be in there. It would be a great move for Google to offer something like Apple's proxy sign-up.
    - ziml77 6y ago
      The only way those permissions are sneaking by me is if I sneeze right when the page shows up so my eyes are shut and the movement causes me to accidentally click "allow".
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

Perhaps a related gripe: "Sign Up?" with "Yes" and "Maybe later", that proceeds to ask me to sign up every single time I go to the site. How about a "Never" or "Stop asking" option?

dylan604 6y ago
If you're blocking cookies, how are they going to know you clicked the 'Never' option?

rewq4321 6y ago

Even better: If possible, don't ask for a signup until the user has actually tried your product. Just create a guest account which is deleted if unclaimed for a week or so, and disable "sensitive" features that could be abused. I have a couple of sites where I allow them to use the product just like a signed-in user, but to save their work, they need to sign in. So people can play around and try things about before entrusting me with their email.

solarkraft 6y ago
That's a great way of doing it: The initial friction is essentially 0 and you're already locking the user in a bit.
snazz 6y ago
This is how Discord works and it’s really great there. Anyone can start chatting with just an invite link.
waynecochran 6y ago
This page immediately had a pop up to ask for my email... funny...
WWLink 6y ago
Oh man, some web stores are like that! It's sooooooo nice. Like, you place your order as a guest and at the end it's like "hey if you give us a password we'll make an account for you!" THOSE ARE THE BEST!
- diggan 6y ago
  And you then sign up to ShoppingSpree.com in order to get your thing delivered. Email verification comes in, everything set. You get to the final order screen, enter your address and now they tell you they don't ship to your country, and the information was never shown before, as they never actually performed the validation until after you signed up. Yeah, been through that. So much fun.
  - 6y ago

solarkraft 6y ago

I'm not sure. "Start Trading Bitcoins" is a bit generic and long, but may be fine when always visible. "Get access" may not be something one would even be required to sign up for. An advantage of "Sign Up" is it's consistency: My usual flow is that I'll look around the website to see whether it's something worth signing up for and when I finally decide to do it something like "Start trading Bitcoins" might throw me off. Here's another sign-up-related UX-crime however: Disrespecting your current users. A lot of services bundle their log in/sign up functionality and prioritize the "sign up" part so much that it becomes incredibly hard to find, especially when it's a fancy short sign up form that looks like one for logging in. It always sends a clear signal about how much you care about people signing up to your service vs. people actually using it. Tumblr is a great example of the opposite: They just present a "log in" page by default and make the "sign up" a little harder to find: This creates just a tiny bit of FOMO ("huh, how do I sign up? Is it invite-only?") and makes the user feel better about actually signing up. Of course Tumblr is a social medium for teenagers and not a SaaS, but in general anything one is expected to use at least semi-frequently should not be difficult to log in to. A good option is to put the forms on equal footing or just ask for the e-mail address and direct the user depending on whether it's already registered.

Razengan 6y ago

All this is why I love Sign In With Apple. Some devs just aren’t going to change, so this at least reduces the friction and lets me try their crap without giving them my email or any other info.

RegW 6y ago
I didn't know "Sign in With Apple" existed - I wonder why?
- Razengan 6y ago
  It’s opt-in but I think a requirement for publishing on the App Store if you offer singing-in with Facebook/Google etc. It’s becoming more common on iOS and it’s all I use now wherever it’s available.

8bitsrule 6y ago

No kidding. I might 'sign up' after I've visited your page/ tried out your thing ten times on ten different days and found that it was worth my while. Likely not. I warned the encyclopedia salesman that I didn't need a reference work. He went ahead and pitched me. I humored him for a half-hour. Then I asked him, after he'd finished, if he believed me now. I'm still enjoying my time-investment. The bigger and more prominent the button, the more needy it looks. It's gotten to the point that when I see that I just close the tab.

devmunchies 6y ago

off-topic, but he shared a picture of an A/B test result. I've used several SaaS A/B test products but am not satisfied with any (built for marketers, not engineers) I just want a service where I can pipe all relevant live experiment data and it does the statistics to tell me the statistical significance and has some dashboarding. Anything like that exist? Self-hosted? I don't need something that injects itself into my site or even sets up the experiment.

gk1 6y ago
Screenshot is from Optimizely, which unfortunately is not what you're looking for. I've only ever used them and Google Optimize (my current go-to), which is not self-hosted.

knl 6y ago

Ironically, this website does the same...

chefgoldbluum 6y ago

This sort of sounds like bullshit. It's definitely conjecture as there's nothing concrete to back it up. My own conjecture: Use nuance, but in general if someone is on your landing page they have some idea of what your product is. "Sign Up" is a well established convention that immediately signals to the user you have a platform model that requires or adds benefit through authentication. Anyway this article is from 2014 and most big platforms still use Sign Up.

godot 6y ago

I'm probably in the minority here and I can't speak for any startup I worked for, but persoonally, I prefer "Sign Up" way more than any of those other variations. It's familiar, I don't ignore it, and I have a pretty good sense of what to expect (giving my email, making up a password, and getting a verification email and clicking on it). Most of the other examples are problematic for me personally when I imagine what's involved: "Try it Free" or "Free Trial" makes me think they want my credit card upfront, "Get Access" sounds like they want me to jump through some hoops, "Get Started" sounds like the beginning of a long painful series of steps. But I guess if those get 3x clicks, I must be in the minority.

collaborative 6y ago
These expert tips try to say "this works for x, so it must work for all". I don't agree. I also think that there is a point in keeping things simple. Keeping things simple has been the key to success of many great companies
stinos 6y ago
I feel the same. By now pretty everyone knows what 'Sign Up' means so it's as clear as can be. All the others are obfuscation - I especially dislike the one which gets a special mention: 'Start Drawing'. I'm not going to call it a lie because yes indeed it will eventually lead you to start drawing, but to me it's like trying to fool users. It sounds like you can start right away, but no, you have to sign up first.
- fomine3 6y ago
  As an English non-native, I sometimes still confuses which is a link to login, "Sign In" or "Sign Up".
Zenbit_UX 6y ago
Well said, and I fully agree - though the hacker news crew is rarely ever in the majority when it comes to internet demographics. It must work well considering the A/B test screenshot he included.

musicale 6y ago

> Asking visitors to Try it Free increased clicks by 212%. And ask for a credit card, right? Leading into the dark pattern of "forced continuity": "When your free trial with a service comes to an end and your credit card silently starts getting charged without any warning. You are then not given an easy way to cancel the automatic renewal." https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/forced-continuity.html https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/forced-contin...

musicale 6y ago

> Compel people to act. Use action verbs such as get, start, and try. I don't enjoy being "compelled to act" when action involves handing over my credit card number (or email address, etc..) Oh no, my large friend isn't here to hurt you - he's just here to compel you to act.

jonnycomputer 6y ago

I had thought that the article was going to be a complaint about how the emphasis on sign-up frequently ends up making it more annoying for existing users who just want to log in. Looks like I'm not alone in seeing how many people commented on this issue.

gwbas1c 6y ago

The worst, IMO, are excessive calls to action with incomplete or vague information about what the product is, or what it's feature set is. Always feels like someone's hiding something.

SPBS 6y ago

Interesting, "Sign Up" is bad but "Sign Up Free" performs better (even though signing up is usually free). I guess humans really are just monkey-brain and need incentive keywords to appear so that they're interested.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

Irks me because the whole 'sign up' thingy is unnecessary. How about, I give a key when I visit a site. If I want to be recognized the next time I come I'll give the same key.

throw149102 6y ago

I was hoping this article was going in the direction of "Making it clearer what startups are providing for free and what they're providing for a cost" but unfortunately it's just about the wording of your sign up button. I was trying to download Postman to test something out earlier this week, and not only is there no button on the webpage to go to downloads, but even when you download the app it still prompts you to sign up/log in with a tiny greyed out link at the bottom saying "Skip signing in". If you want to really drive sales, stop with this user-hostile adversarial bullshit and start putting my needs first. For me, this article is still putting the companies needs first.

jondubois 6y ago

So true. I guess it's a way for giant mega-corporate monopolies to make themselves seem smaller and less monopolistic than they actually are.

devilduck 6y ago

Too many sign ups, and then once you've signed up, too many sites make it very difficult to close and delete your account. I'm looking at you HN.

shmerl 6y ago

Some services like Instagram are extremely obnoxious about it and those who aren't registered there get annoying pop ups to sign up that block the whole screen all the time.

cnst 6y ago

Article: stop asking me to "sign-up". Same article: take 1/3 of the screen on mobile for a button to signup.

fallingfrog 6y ago

Not to mention that “sign up” conjures up images of signing your name on something, entering in to some kind of contract. What am I signing up for? What are my obligations? Do I need a lawyer present? Maybe safer to just close the window.. I know that’s not the intent, but that’s the mental image. Signing up means joining the army to me.