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Forgeting about legality for a moment, this is great. Windows XP is probably the greatest operating system if you factor usability and how many people it has re
by fimdomeio 6y ago
Forgeting about legality for a moment, this is great. Windows XP is probably the greatest operating system if you factor usability and how many people it has reached. It was also from a time where people still did not expect proprietary operating systems to be actively working against you.
So it's great that this source will not be forever lost.
- codegladiator 6y ago> proprietary operating systems to be actively working against you Where is this happening ? Are we expecting this now ? What did I miss
- jononor 6y agoThe amount of user data collected in Windows 10 for example. Next to no user benefits, just value extracted for Microsoft. Automatic updates on reboot. For example when someone giving a presentation or class has to restart their computer for some reason (quite common in Windows still, or one just ran out of power). Boot up the computer, people waiting impatiently - and then have to wait for 5-30 minutes for the computer to finish updates before being able to use it. No way to cancel/post-pone, no time-estimates for when it will be done.
- rblatz 6y agoI go months without needing to reboot windows, and have for over a decade. Typically if I need to reboot it’s due to an update or software that requires a reboot to install.
- sdfqasdghj 6y agoHow? When I last used Windows it forced a reboot to do updates once a month. If I let it pick the time it was often a bad time.
- toyg 6y agoTo be fair, that's typically a policy enforced by administrators: "patch X should be force-installed if not present by Date Y" + "reboot should be forced if not happening after Z days from patching" => "reboot will happen at Date Y + Z, regardless of user's wishes".
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y agoO&O ShutUP 10. It will let you disable the automatic update nonsense (along with a bunch of other nonsense).
- rvba 6y agoI dont use Windows much, but you can go to services and disable Windows the update service and.. in the Wifi settings check a box that says you have a limited connection.
- ksk 6y agoUnfortunately, this is not possible on their consumer OS branch (unless you hack the system, but I have found that it often makes the OS unstable because its in an unsupported system state). For me, our IT manages the systems. They get to decide when the systems update. I have a test box that regularly sees months of uptime. https://i.imgur.com/XN2Hjia.png https://i.imgur.com/XN2Hjia.png
- mhh__ 6y agoThe bigger issue, I think, I really having to restart just to update minor things i.e. what linux distro needs to restart just to update (the equivalent of) visual studio
- Hackbraten 6y agoUnpopular opinion but: telemetrics help developers prioritize stuff and triage bugs. From a user’s point of view, isn’t that a substantial benefit?
- saagarjha 6y agoTelemetrics are frequently inaccurate, sometimes to the point they paint a picture are interpreted in a a way that’s the opposite of reality. Windows telemetry in particular is not nice because it’s not really possible to turn off on the lower editions and it also does not seem to translate to benefits–especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team.
- emteycz 6y ago> especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team. Or telemetry made it way simpler.
- ksk 6y agoWhat are you basing this on? Are you talking about Windows or just random telemetry?
- saagarjha 6y agoThe first statement was general, the second is specific to Windows.
- krageon 6y agoVery good software was written before people that think like you were taken seriously. Clearly it is not necessary.
- Hackbraten 6y agoYou know you can disagree with me while still respecting my opinion? Also, beneficial does not imply necessary.
- s_gourichon 6y agoIndeed, Windows update delaying a reboot at a wrong time can affect real world events. See this example from 2015: [German pro basketball team relegated to lower division due to Windows update | Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/german-pro-basketball-team-relegated-to-lower-division-due-to-windows-update/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/germa...) > "But as both teams warmed up, the computer crashed," he said. "When we booted it again at 7:20pm, it started automatically downloading updates. But we did not initiate anything." > After all the updates were installed, Paderborn was ready to start the game at 7:55pm. > But then Chemnitz formally protested, saying that because Paderborn had delayed the start time of the match by 25 minutes (instead of the 15-minute maximum as allowed under the German basketball rules), they should be penalized. As a result, Paderborn lost another point (Google Translate) in the standings, according to a Basketball Budesliga press release, which meant that it would certainly be relegated to the "ProB" league of German pro basketball.
- oblio 6y agoThe telemetry is shady but the automatic updates are a... necessary evil. People would delay updates for MONTHS by clicking that postpone button. Windows is by design meant to be used by not very computer literate people and unfortunately these kinds of users need to be forced to do the right thing sometimes. As they said back in the day: "the user will do everything possible to see the dancing bears, including downloading that toolbar, installing that gizmo, disabling security settings". People smugly complain about this, in many cases from their Linux box (= technical users on a system with a 1% desktop market share => smaller target and better human protection) or MacOS box (= slightly more technical users than the average Windows user, on a system with a 5%-10% desktop market share).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y agoDa, it is for your own good comrade! I really wish people who insist on claiming some right to control how users use their own computers would leave IT forever.
- reflectiv 6y agoAnd if it were left open ended at the request of people like you...we'd still have compromised systems out there spread amongst normal people as well as within infrastructure and other more critical pieces of hardware. People cannot be trusted to upgrade. It REALLY IS good to force people to upgrade.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago> People cannot be trusted to upgrade. It REALLY IS good to force people to upgrade. The very idea that users should be at the mercy of their computers instead of the other way around is contrary to the concept of personal computing. People like you are why I hate IT these days. You seem to think that because you have some specialized knowledge about computers that you're smarter than everyone who doesn't. You're totally willing to sacrifice hours of peoples lives, ruin their projects, and break their systems in the name of "I know better". It doesn't matter what they're doing, or how important it is to their lives, what matters is what you think is important.
- stjohnswarts 6y agoTo be fair it asks to update or not to update. You can also set how often it does check and when it installs (at night). It's just a google search away.
- asveikau 6y agoWindows 10 is a resource hog and contains adware. macOS ... Is special. Some of the most notable changes in the last few years have been to try to restrict what an app can do.
- dx034 6y agoI agree with Spyware but resource hog? Everyday performance is certainly better than on earlier Windows versions.
- spdionis 6y agoSo you're telling me that macOS is more performant than Windows 10? Have you used both? Do you not feel the delay in every mouse click you do in macOS that is so maddening after coming from Windows? Both the UI lag and general performance in macOS is just a sad story. My windows machine runs 24/7 for months without needing a restart. I am forced to restart macOS weekly, usually because of system issues.
- spacekitcat 6y agoI don't share your experiences. I'm a developer on Windows and OSX, so I have MacBook Pro and a ThinkPad. I want to run the ThinkPad over with a car and then drop it in the sea.
- pcdoodle 6y agoMacOS is far better. This mouse click delay you're talking about, is in your head.
- bisby 6y agoyes. most of the things I see about windows vs linux involve "well you can just turn all the spyware stuff off, all you have to do is dive into these 10 menus and flip these switches" "Its easy to disable the ads in the start menu" etc etc. Even if you can turn the stuff off, the fact that you have to feels a lot like the OS working against the user.
- ce4 6y agoAnd the next update may reset some of them. The Edge update comes to mind that had reset the browser preference presumably to be able to push edge again.
- jodrellblank 6y agoBecause that's how installing software works on Windows. You install a new program which can open JPGs, it's not allowed to grab control of all JPGs unilaterally. Instead it registers itself as a handler of JPGs. Next time you try to open one, Windows prompts you "you have a new program which can do X, what do you want to use?" and you get to keep your old one, or choose the new one, once or every time. Get a new browser installed, prompt for your choice of browser. This is an improvement to "get Edge installed, have Edge take over everything silently" and an improvement on "I installed a thing and it doesn't do anything, where is it", and an improvement on "IE 11 for eternity".
- bisby 6y agoafter the edge update, when i started my computer, edge opened itself and forced me through a "first run" mini tutorial thing that i couldnt skip or ignore. it wasn't even a "you have a new program" prompt, it was a "YOU ARE USING EDGE NOW". one of the updates most certainly was not just a mime handler update. They pushed a new edge (when they swapped to chromium) and rather than leave people with old edge as their browser, they just flat out set new edge as your browser without checking what you had otherwise, and set it to auto run on your next boot.
- stnmtn 6y ago
- Answerawake 6y agoWindows 10 telemetry, secretly turning on auto updates even after you turn it off and correct me if I am wrong, even if you disable the update service or add the urls to the hosts file it now "mysteriously" undoes that stuff over time. Windows 10X will probably have some more goodies.
- dx034 6y agoI believe auto updates aren't malicious. Microsoft had a huge problem with worms infecting millions of computers that used outdated Windows version. It made Windows less secure in public opinion, even though these issues had often been fixed a long time. Forcing people to update was probably the only way to stop that. I'm also not a fan, I got burned at least once by a Windows 10 computer restarting in the middle of the night when I had programs running on it, but I guess it's one of these things that's good for 99%, the 1% is just overrepresented here.
- bzzzt 6y agoIf you want people to accept forced updates, just send the security fixes. Don't change the UI and don't mess with the users preferences, especially concerning privacy.
- dx034 6y agoHonestly, I've never heard anyone complain apart from tech people. Long reboots are annoying but overall, Windows 10 is pretty well accepted by every non-technical person I know.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoOh, the non-tech people hate it too, but what can they do? They have literally zero choice in the matter. That's the thing with tech, and that's why I consider all arguments that "people voted with their wallets" to be bullshit in this space. Most users don't understand how computers work. They don't have mental models to recognize how things should work. They have no choice but to accept whatever they're being given. Devices around them getting less ergonomic, slower, and more flashy UIs? "There are smart people building this magic, they must know what they're doing!". Their computers slowing down to the point of uselessness in the span of a year? "It must be these viruses!". Techies complain because techies understand it's all greed and laziness, and that same technology is capable of being much better than it is. I mean, ask your parents whether they like their operating system. I'll bet their answer will be a resounding "no", and you may get an earful about their general frustrations with technology. One notable moment where the dissatisfaction of masses was voiced in unison was the forced Windows 8 to Windows 10 upgrade. You didn't have to have any sophisticated mental model there to recognize you're being made to do something bad for you against your will.
- matthewmacleod 6y agoNostalgia is, it seems, a hell of a drug.
- asveikau 6y agoIn early Windows XP days everybody said it was crap compared to Win2k. XP was the first one with product activation as well. And people called the Luna theme childish. Then Vista came along and people said XP was the good one.
- xyproto 6y agoThen Windows 7 came along and nobody said Vista was the good one.
- cblconfederate 6y agoi think the consensus is that windows 95, XP, 7 were the least troublesome versions. I still think 7 > 10
- shp0ngle 6y ago10 has tons of under-the-hood improvements that are great, honestly. However, it also has a ton of advertisments everywhere, and those annoying auto-installing apps.
- bayindirh 6y agoI don't use Windows day to day anymore but, my family has Windows 10 and I manage it. When I sit in the front of the computer, I feel like I'm inside the big space ship in the Wall-e. All the advertisements, forced consumerism and everything.
- beagle3 6y agoI had run tr0nscript on the computer I support for family a few years ago, and that made the experience almost reasonable. I know tr0nscript has fallen out of favor since, don’t know the exact reasons. I did need to fix the hosts file to allow windows to get security updates - but otherwise, that machine still feels as usable as win7 except for the degraded shell (which could be replaced with classic shell, I guess, but I didn’t bother).
- mrslave 6y agoCompletely agree. I was very slow to update XP, until both enough of a gap appeared, and Windows 7 established itself as the next high-usability Microsoft operating system. Even then my use of Windows was low. I now have no need for it at all. From what I've heard Windows 10 is not in the same class.
- stjohnswarts 6y agoStability wise it's just as stable. People forget that even back in the day windows updates could break your machine and wax fondly with their memories rather than realistically.
- bronlund 6y ago> Windows XP is probably the greatest operating system... I tend to disagree. In my opinion it is the worst OS ever created and the reason it's popular has nothing to do with quality.
- akmittal 6y agoXP was released in 2001, It was really good for its time. Most people kept using it(beacuse of Issues with Vista) till 7 launch(2009).So for 2009 XP may seem old and outdated. But the fact that after failure of Vista XP was able to keep OS marketshare for Microsoft is astonishing.
- dotancohen 6y ago> did not expect proprietary operating > systems to be actively working against you. What did I miss? I've last used Windows in 2005, I'm pretty sure that was XP Service Pack 2. What does it do now to actively work against you?
- dx034 6y agoWindows 10 has become much less open for non enterprise customers. It't incredibly hard to change settings or disable features such as Onedrive, Cortana, and others.
- ksk 6y agoAgreed. I think MS has decided (for better or for worse) that the average user is not a good system admin, and/or a consumer OS shouldn't require one. Our IT maintains W10 pretty well. I have a test box in my office and I regularly get months of uptime without any nags of updates and other nonsense. I work in biotech and you don't want your cleanroom computers rebooting in the middle of an expensive batch. =)
- Hackbraten 6y agoOr maybe Microsoft just uses consumers, who pay less per license, as field testers for new features before those get rolled out to enterprise customers later?
- scandox 6y agoI guess Telemetry and Ads is what they're referring to? And maybe automatic updates that wipe your desktop.
- hyperman1 6y agoIf I remember correctly, the trend of anti-consumer features was already well underway with windows XP. Integrated DRM was there. The limited activation count was there. Creating themes without signing was not possible, and the 'fisherprice' theme was rolled out even if a lot of users hated it. Things were still overridable, but XP started the trend where the end user was not an allmighty sysadmin responsible for its own deeds good or wrong, but a consumer that should follow the vision of Microsoft and not touch the holy internals. I can partially defend microsoft here. Everybody and their dog was messing around in the registry, was installing all kinds of system-breaking software, etc... But it also signifies a point where Microsoft realised it got powerfull enough to ignore the wishes of its own clients.
- WinterKills 6y agoWindows XP's source code will never be leaked. Don't fool yourselves. Microsoft will never disclose the source code of theirs commercial software. It's against theirs law.
- Hackbraten 6y agoIt’s illegal so it can’t happen?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- chinathrow 6y agoI considered Windows 2000 Pro the best version and switched to Linux after that - never looked back.
- swiley 6y agoIf I'm going to play with a toy OS haiku is neater IMO. Much more fun is writing your own.
- pmontra 6y agoI remember I had to reinstall it at least once per year to keep it fast. Except that it was OK. And yet my last XP laptop performed much better when I eventually ugraded to Ubuntu 8.04. Fast, no need to reinstall, pen drives immediately mounted and ejected, no drivers to install for printer and scanner, etc.
- jiveturkey 6y ago> So it's great that this source will not be forever lost. What a WARPed perspective. (hehe) It's great that this was stolen and distributed? There's nothing great about that. This source was not lost and has essentially zero risk of being lost. It would have been held for all time immemorial within the vault of its owner. > Windows XP is probably the greatest operating system if you factor usability and how many people it has reached. Sorry, but that honor must certainly go to Linux? The OS itself perhaps doesn't have usability, but it has flexibility and everything in modern life depends on it. Every single person in the world, everyone, today depends somehow on Linux. I'm not poo-pooing XP in anyway -- it was and is a great OS. Both for its time and still today. But I think it is far in Linux' shadow.
- ccatcherjb 6y agoWhy and how do codes leak? I don't understand. Is it that some insiders are giving out the information?
- ccatcherjb 6y agoIt is still difficult for a new Comer like me to understand exactly what is going on here.
- stjohnswarts 6y agoCould just be a disenchanted employee.