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Los Angeles hid power plant methane leak for a year
- landemva 6y agoThose greedy capitalist businesses will continue to polute until the government locks up the greedy CEOs and takes over power generation. Capitalist bastards polluting the children! Oh wait, this was the government. Nevermind, no one shall be arrested. And the government employees conspired to keep it secret, "utility staff said they discovered the leak in August 2019, a full year earlier."
- refurb 6y agoYou’re getting downvoted but you have a point. The gov’t does a poor job holding private companies accountable, but an even worse job holding themselves accountable.
- omginternets 6y agoPaywall. Anyone have a link?
- mikeyouse 6y agoI'll clip some of the paragraphs, but people should really pay for journalism! > Residents of Sun Valley and Pacoima breathe some of California’s worst air and suffer from asthma-related hospitalizations at rates far higher than most of the state. So when the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power revealed last month that its power plant had been leaking methane gas for at least three years, local outrage was loud and swift. .. > City officials see Valley Generating Station as a critical tool for keeping the lights on when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing — at least until energy storage technologies are cheaper and more versatile. > During the recent Labor Day weekend heat wave, Valley Generating Station and several coastal gas plants “were pretty much running 24/7,” helping the city avoid rolling blackouts, a DWP official told the agency’s board of commissioners. > At the same meeting, DWP General Manager Marty Adams called Valley “an integral part of our power supply transformation.” > “The people who live around Valley Generating Station, who breathe the air in that area of the city, which is subject also to other industrial facilities and other sources of pollutants — they are very much supporting the overall efforts to create a more sustainable and green power future,” Adams said. “And so as we often have to rely on Valley more during the course of our upgrades, we realize that the local folks are making somewhat of a sacrifice in support of the overall efforts of the city.” .. > DWP staff first notified the public — and its own board of commissioners — about the methane leak in late August. Adams, the utility’s general manager, made the unexpected disclosure during a Tuesday morning board meeting, announcing that staff would be presenting information about “an issue of methane gas at Valley, and work that we’re doing to control methane.” > The plant’s compressor units had been leaking gas “for the last couple years,” one staffer said. The utility had a plan in place to fix the compressors later in the year but decided to go public now because NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory had detected the leak as part of a drone survey, and “their information is getting more publicized,” Adams told the board. > “I apologize for catching everyone cold,” he said. > Several board members were stunned. So were members of the public. The questions came fast: When did staff discover the leak? Why hadn’t they notified the public earlier? How much methane was leaking from the plant? .. > There were comparisons to Southern California Gas Co.'s Aliso Canyon gas leak, which spewed record-setting amounts of methane into the air near L.A.'s Porter Ranch neighborhood in late 2015 and early 2016. > In turned out the Valley leak was small compared to Aliso Canyon’s. At the next board meeting, staff presented slides showing the faulty compressors had been leaking methane — the main component of natural gas — at rates ranging from 168 to 367 kilograms per hour, Jet Propulsion Laboratory readings showed. At Aliso, the rate exceeded 50,000 kilograms per hour at times. .. > Utility staff also said Jet Propulsion Laboratory researchers first detected a methane plume at the power plant in 2017 but didn’t alert DWP until more recent drone surveys showed the leak had worsened. .. > DWP staff say the methane plume didn’t leave the power plant site. And recent tests by South Coast Air Quality Management District in the surrounding neighborhood found levels of methane and volatile organic compounds “within typical background levels.”
- neonate 6y agohttps://archive.is/ClKWd https://archive.is/ClKWd
- mc32 6y agoI don’t know the particulars of this location; however, often times it’s not dirty industry invading and settling in poor neighborhoods but rather poor neighborhoods sprouting up next to these industries because land is cheaper. For example the Sriracha company settled in the middle of nowhere, the north San Jose water treatment facility was in the middle of nowhere but now you have housing next to them and people complaining about smells or pollution. To avoid this you’ll need better more stringent zoning laws with bigger buffer zones.
- MattGaiser 6y agoThen you will have people complaining about restrictive zoning laws. You can’t win.
- Chardok 6y agoThe issue isn't just isolated to those living around it. Methane is an extremely potent greenhouse gas (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-bad-of-a-greenhouse-gas-is-methane/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-bad-of-a-gree...), letting it leak out like that for a year has likely caused significant environmental harm.
- floren 6y agoMethane is removed from the atmosphere due to chemical reaction within about 12 years, so good news: with the leak stopped, the effects of the leak will taper off relatively quickly.
- z8rHZM8Svhu8hE2 6y agoNot entierly correct: methane "tails off to about GWP of 28 for a 100-year time frame" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_methane#Methane_as_a_greenhouse_gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_methane#Methane_as...
- pedrocr 6y agoJust because you built something in the "middle of nowhere" doesn't necessarily mean you should get to impose externalities that devalue the properties around you. It depends on what the externality is but zoning may not be enough, you may need to actually own the land you're creating restrictions over for it to be fair. Otherwise there's a first mover advantage in starting a negative spiral. If you don't do it on your land before your neighbor you get all the disadvantages without making money from the use.
- bgorman 6y agoCalifornia Democrats simply do not care about the environment. Kamala Harris, the former Calfifornia District Attorney presided over the largest leak of Natural Gas in US history and declined to prosecute anyone involved. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliso_Canyon_gas_leak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliso_Canyon_gas_leak). Kamala Harris now has a good chance to be US President. Until Politicians are held accountable for their actions (or inactions) this will continue.
- Pfhreak 6y agoI'd be careful to use the label Democrat so broadly. Neoliberal, centrist democrats (which is the predominant wing of the party, e.g. Pelosi, Biden, Obama, et al) are definitely caving to corporate interests over people's health/environment. The Leftist side of the party is pushing hard for climate change. Biden/Harris, unfortunately, are unlikely to make any movement in their admin should they win. Edit: To be clear, I'm a Leftist who is disgruntled at how hard the Dem establishment has been pushing us out of the party.
- ISL 6y agoThe decision at hand in this election is whether Biden/Harris or Trump/Pence might do a better job. On climate and the environment, it is clear that Biden/Harris will do a much more-careful job.
- NoOneNew 6y ago> On climate and the environment, it is clear that Biden/Harris will do a much more-careful job. How is it clear? The point to this article is the issue of lip-service and zero action. Hate to say it, Trump leaving the Paris agreement did more for the environment than being in it. Businesses were pissed he left the agreement and started to implement the agreement's proposals... something those businesses were ALREADY supposed to be doing while in it. But they weren't. The biggest issue going on is the bullshit lip-service about climate action. Greta Thornberg was the prime poster child of lip-service just to get attention, but accomplishing nothing in the real world. Too much "environmentalism" the past 30+ years has been about "awareness". Don't pretend there's a single political candidate (in or running) right now who is willing to put in the hard work to actually made the necessary changes.
- cm2187 6y agoActivists trying to shut down power plants in the middle of a series of blackouts as a result of the lack of capacity kind of summarises California to me.
- jlmorton 6y agoIt seems like the implication is that this is toxic pollution, but methane is safe to breathe even in large quantities. It's biologically inert, and not thought to be a carcinogen. I'm not sure I understand the outrage. Methane is a very strong greenhouse gas, but it's not dangerous to residents in the area, unless the leak was so extremely large as to pose a fire hazard, or displace oxygen.
- sarakayakomzin 6y ago>Methane is a very strong greenhouse gas oh well I guess that's okay to hide when discovered because fuck everyone else.
- notRobot 6y agoThere was a massive gas leak, of something that's very, very bad for the environment, and the government hid it from the people. Why shouldn't we be outraged?
- jlmorton 6y agoThe entire article is about residents in the area breathing in the methane. There is no danger to them breathing in the methane, even in very large amounts. It does nothing to you. It's a potent greenhouse gas, and of course we should try to eliminate leaks. But that is a global effect, and on a global scale, this was not a massive leak at all, it was infinitesimal.
- pengaru 6y agoSince when is industrial methane 100% pure as if this is some kind of hospital gas supply. No doubt that methane leak was putting a whole lot of undesirable things into the air people shouldn't be breathing.
- jlmorton 6y agoSure, and I'm not saying they shouldn't fix it. But in terms of what we should be outraged about, this is pretty far down the list. Each and every well-maintained, perfectly-functioning coal-fired power plant in this country is worse. The million of cars in the LA-area are worse. I just think the article is giving an improper impression of the dangers of methane (or even benzene, or whatever else is leaking).
- Cactus2018 6y agoNASA post about CA Methane: > A Third of California Methane Traced to a Few Super-Emitters https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7535 https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7535
- dv_dt 6y agoIt's interesting that there is capability to locate methane leaks that doesn't seem to be directly tied to regulatory monitoring? Between remote sensing and more localized lower cost handheld and IOT sensors, this seems like an area which could be strongly improved for fighting climate change. https://hackaday.io/project/12568-portable-ecological-laboratory-suite-pels https://hackaday.io/project/12568-portable-ecological-labora...
- ip26 6y agoThe capability is still developing. Europe has satellites capable of detecting methane sending back new data every day now. Processing that data to identify leaks is still a challenge, not something we have been able to batch in a nightly computer job. We can get there, but the very first satellite methane dataset is still only a few years old.
- mturmon 6y agoIt is tied to regulatory monitoring, in CA: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/greenhouse-gas-inventory https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/greenhouse-gas-inve... The ability to check the self-reported emissions with remote sensing is new, and has led to a recalibration (ahem) of self-reported emissions. The technology for remote sensing of CH4 is very exciting and it's being pushed forward in a lot of different ways. As you pointed out, you need sensors at various scales (in situ, airborne, space), calibration of retrieved concentrations (it's not a direct measurement), and inversions to find out what the sources are, given that you observe a certain set of concentrations. It's a complex problem!
- NotSammyHagar 6y agoSo now we know that in at least two places in California, power companies didn't report leaks. This most recent one is much smaller, but as you joke about, having independent studies is the only thing we have. There should be a criminal policy with levels that require reporting. There should be financial and criminal penalties for not reporting.
- WillPostForFood 6y agoDWP staff say the methane plume didn’t leave the power plant site. Seems unlikely...
- neonate 6y agohttps://archive.is/ClKWd https://archive.is/ClKWd
- yboris 6y agoWhy can't we have a government-funded system that pays out to any whistle-blower some proportional amount of money (proportional to the damages they prevent)? This would align the incentive system very quickly!
- zzapplezz 6y agoFor good actors. Brings to mind the Cobra Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect
- DoctorOetker 6y agoHow could the cobra effect get into play though? some CEO arranges for some extremely damaging behavior, then tells on himself?
- darth_avocado 6y agoWait the headline says they hid it for a year, but readin it it says > couple of years <? What kind of journalism is it?
- capableweb 6y agoI think you're mixing up stuff. Here is what what said: - Headline: "Los Angeles hid a methane leak for a year" - "Power revealed last month that its power plant had been leaking methane gas for at least three years" - "The plant’s compressor units had been leaking gas “for the last couple years,” one staffer said. The utility had a plan in place to fix the compressors later in the year but" - "especially because utility staff said they discovered the leak in August 2019, a full year earlier. Staffers said they didn’t notify the public because they didn’t believe anyone was at risk" So, it has been leaking for years. But they only discovered it a year ago. They cannot hide what they do not know, hence the headline. Although if I was the editor, I'd have chosen "Power plant leaked methane for years" rather than "Someone hid it for a year", but I guess that's the angle they've chosen (or the former was already known, so not "news").
- darth_avocado 6y agoOhh yeah, you're right, I mixed up things. Thanks.
- chabes 6y ago“Jet Propulsion Laboratory researchers first detected a methane plume at the power plant in 2017 but didn’t alert DWP until more recent drone surveys showed the leak had worsened.”
- RandallBrown 6y agoI think headlines and articles are often written by different people.
- kaikai 6y agoIt's true, editors generally write headlines, often without the input or approval of whomever writes the article.
- smoyer 6y agoIn an area producing oil, if you don't use the methane for something like this power plant, then it will be burned off as waste at the well. I'm not advocating for the power plant but rather pointing out that methane itself is a byproduct you've got to deal with. And clearly the plant should be burning the methane instead of leaking it. As green energy becomes more and more feasible, I think the answer to a problem like this will be to lower the quantity of oil being produced so there's less waste methane to deal with.
- osamagirl69 6y agoI have seen it happen several times where it was considered illegal to use waste methane (for example, to run a generator) because the operator was unable to get a permit to do so. The reasoning is that small scale power generation produces other pollutants (NOx, etc) that are even more tightly regulated than the methane. This plant still should have been able to secure a permit to flare the methane (thus converting it to CO2 + soot) which would at least be better for global warming than releasing the methane directly
- vondur 6y agoThe DWP is a very corrupt agency, I believe mostly due to it's union. They are currently under investigation by the FBI for corruption. I remember reading that there is some sort of large fund paid from the budget that goes to the union without any sort of oversight on how it's spent.
- wow_yes 6y agoGoing to need a source - most corruption is corporate, unions represent Labor and thus don't have a corruption incentive (only Capital does)
- tesmar2 6y ago> unions don’t have a corruption incentive Going to need a source.
- athms 6y ago>The DWP is a very corrupt agency, I believe mostly due to it's union. You are partially correct. It is corrupt at all levels, union and management. Laziness and incompetence all around.
- thewebcount 6y agoDWP is awful. They only send you a bill every 2 months. So by the time you get the bill and see that it's high, it's almost too late to do anything about it before the season is over and the weather has changed. They also combine water, electric, solid waste removal, and sewer onto one bill. So the first time you get a bill from them after having come from somewhere else, you're like, "Why is my electric bill for my 800 square foot house with no air conditioning $800???" Oh, it's 2 months, and for 4 different things. Quite irritating all around. There was a ballot initiative to get them to send a monthly bill, but of course it had a bunch of other stuff that made no sense in it so it got shot down.
- andjusticef 6y agoAs one of the largest polluting countries in the world the US would already have had sanctions imposed if it weren't the trigger happy nation it is. It boggles the mind knowing it can get away with so much damage to this planet. China and India, also major polluters, are taking constant heat over it but the US is not. The only option is to stop buying american (little and of low quality as it is) and impose harsh tariffs on any products made without consideration for the environments. As with cars. Fortunately there almost no us made cars in europe as they damage the environment.
- stucomp 6y agoI have friends who live in a complex that was built for athlete housing during the 2010 Winter Olympics. The sewage treatment plant is 1 away on one side and an asphalt plant is 1km away on the other side and have been there before anybody ever considered building anything else near there. There are never ending complaints from the residents about the asphalt plant. The town council soliciting bids to have paving done got only one quote - from the company that operate the asphalt plant. They offered to truck the asphalt in from their other plant in the next town 45 minutes away, with all the trucking costs at the town’s expense. Nimbyism is out of control.