6 ms·

Conservative doesn't really mean much anymore on its own. CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern Europe

Conservative doesn't really mean much anymore on its own. CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards.

enaaem 6y ago
A lot of political labels have a different, often opposite, meaning in Europe compared to the US. A liberal in Europe refers to classical liberalism. We also have many political parties, so a liberal here is not necessary a christian conservative. Politics is more nuanced.
- vinay427 6y ago
  Did you reply to the right comment? What do US political designations have to do with European and EU politics? In any case, "a lot of political labels" implies several, and I'm not sure there are more than one or two that fit this description.
  - sangnoir 6y ago
    GP had cast "conservative" and "liberal" as mutually exclusive descriptions of the political spectrum: parent clarified that in Europe, those 2 terms mean the same thing. Mostly.
    - cygx 6y ago
      Probably closer to 'libertarian' in US parlance (laissez-faire economics, small government).
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  >" a liberal here is not necessary a christian conservative" // They're pretty much opposite sides of the political spectrum in UK. Where are they anything other than that?
  - username90 6y ago
    Liberal economic policies means low taxes, so in Sweden they are a right wing party. Why would they be anything but right wing? Basically the most liberal party is for low taxes, for diversity and for secularism. If you want high taxes then you aren't a liberal.
    - wongarsu 6y ago
      In Germany the liberal party is the FDP, who are seen as centric (so between left and right). The left wants your taxes for social programs, the right wants your taxes for security, the FDP just wants lower taxes (but achieved by reducing bureaucracy and overheads, not by running a deficit like the US's political right).
- skocznymroczny 6y ago
  I disagree. Perhaps it meant so in the past, but nowadays most commentators in Europe use liberal and left-wing almost interchangeably.
  - username90 6y ago
    Do they? Are you talking about UK? They don't do so in Sweden at least. UK is quite different from the rest of Europe on many points so they don't really count.
lumost 6y ago
Are there any major pan-european parties? (that are taken seriously)
- antientropic 6y ago
  Sort of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_political_party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_political_party However they're primarily just groupings of like-minded national parties.
- david_arcos 6y ago
  There is one: https://european-pirateparty.eu https://european-pirateparty.eu
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    > that are taken seriously
    - kazen44 6y ago
      the pirate party is actually seen as a serious political party in both european aswell as local/national politics.
      - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        That’s true. I was half joking because public opinion might differ.
      - cabalamat 6y ago
        The Pirates came 3rd in Czechia with 14% of the vote last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_Czech_Republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_elect...
- chki 6y ago
  Volt comes to mind but they are relatively new and only have one parliamentarian in the EP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Europa?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Europa?wprov=sfla1
mschuster91 6y ago
> CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards. Which is mostly a result of Eastern European countries turning outright fascist (Hungary) or religious-authoritarian (Poland), it's a classic game of shifting goalposts. CDU also was modernized by Merkel after the right-wing conservatives got booted off/sidetracked in the early '00s following a massive donation / tax scandal ("Schreiber-Spendenaffäre") and so the CDU still enjoyed wide popularity as a result, while the Eastern European conservatives never had that push.
- Woodi 6y ago
  >> CDU might be considered conservative by Western European >> standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards. > Which is mostly a result of Eastern European countries > turning outright fascist (Hungary) or religious- > authoritarian (Poland), it's a classic game of shifting > goalposts. You are seriously wrong aka naive or intentionally missing truth. a) current Hungary and Poland ruling parties just trying to make their countries strong, finish with some colonialism-like practices. Nothing fashist or autoritarism here. b) liberal and socialist (ex commies hire) disqualificate themselves via scams and -gates, stupidity and not doing ANYTHING for their own ppls. You should better start to be concern about democracy in France (military state by now), Germany (censorship) and Espana (country suicide).
krageon 6y ago
That's more a reflection on how incredibly broken Eastern Europe is. Definitely not a stick to measure anything by. Just like how we do not measure political leaning by US standards (spoiler alert: everything is left wing).
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  Social issues are definetly not, every single country in Europe would cringe on Californian liberals and think they were high on something. Don't agree with that what so all.
iterativ 6y ago
They want more or less government spending ? They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation). They want less or more police ? Reform the prison system (even dissolve it), maybe ? What are their views on immigration ? Multiculturalism ? Should we tax the wealthy more or less ? Of course, there are different political ideologies. It's not just a popularity contest.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  > "They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation)" What does this mean? How is alleged population related to family structure and sexual relations?
  - Perseids 6y ago
    I think grandparent was alluding to a separation of the two concepts of sexual relations and family structure: (Two or more) People can decide to bring up a child together without being in a romantic/sexual relationship. (Two or more) People can be in a romantic and/or sexual relationship without sharing responsibility of a child of one of the partners. Under this prerequisite, a family is any close social connection surrounding children (and the closeness and type of closeness being the linchpin of whether the term applies – not every flat share is a family for instance). Regarding overpopulation: One motivation that I've heard quite often is that one of the most effective ways to reduce your carbon footprint is to have one child less. This is always presented with the asterisk that this is of course a very personal decision and there is the understanding that this is not a standard under which you will be measured. Still, if you're just looking at the numbers, that's what you get. Sharing parentage with more than two people is an alluring way to achieve the same result, especially as it means you will retain more of your personal time when child care is shouldered by three (or more) people.
- thefounder 6y ago
  >> Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation)" For some reasons I thought Europe has an aging population issue and demographic decline not overpopulation. >> families with more than two parents I never heard of this unless you consider divorced people.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Conservative doesn't really mean much anymore on its own. CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards.

enaaem 6y ago

A lot of political labels have a different, often opposite, meaning in Europe compared to the US. A liberal in Europe refers to classical liberalism. We also have many political parties, so a liberal here is not necessary a christian conservative. Politics is more nuanced.

vinay427 6y ago
Did you reply to the right comment? What do US political designations have to do with European and EU politics? In any case, "a lot of political labels" implies several, and I'm not sure there are more than one or two that fit this description.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  GP had cast "conservative" and "liberal" as mutually exclusive descriptions of the political spectrum: parent clarified that in Europe, those 2 terms mean the same thing. Mostly.
  - cygx 6y ago
    Probably closer to 'libertarian' in US parlance (laissez-faire economics, small government).
pbhjpbhj 6y ago
>" a liberal here is not necessary a christian conservative" // They're pretty much opposite sides of the political spectrum in UK. Where are they anything other than that?
- username90 6y ago
  Liberal economic policies means low taxes, so in Sweden they are a right wing party. Why would they be anything but right wing? Basically the most liberal party is for low taxes, for diversity and for secularism. If you want high taxes then you aren't a liberal.
  - wongarsu 6y ago
    In Germany the liberal party is the FDP, who are seen as centric (so between left and right). The left wants your taxes for social programs, the right wants your taxes for security, the FDP just wants lower taxes (but achieved by reducing bureaucracy and overheads, not by running a deficit like the US's political right).
skocznymroczny 6y ago
I disagree. Perhaps it meant so in the past, but nowadays most commentators in Europe use liberal and left-wing almost interchangeably.
- username90 6y ago
  Do they? Are you talking about UK? They don't do so in Sweden at least. UK is quite different from the rest of Europe on many points so they don't really count.

lumost 6y ago

Are there any major pan-european parties? (that are taken seriously)

antientropic 6y ago
Sort of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_political_party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_political_party However they're primarily just groupings of like-minded national parties.
david_arcos 6y ago
There is one: https://european-pirateparty.eu https://european-pirateparty.eu
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  > that are taken seriously
  - kazen44 6y ago
    the pirate party is actually seen as a serious political party in both european aswell as local/national politics.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      That’s true. I was half joking because public opinion might differ.
    - cabalamat 6y ago
      The Pirates came 3rd in Czechia with 14% of the vote last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_Czech_Republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_elect...
chki 6y ago
Volt comes to mind but they are relatively new and only have one parliamentarian in the EP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Europa?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Europa?wprov=sfla1

mschuster91 6y ago

> CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards. Which is mostly a result of Eastern European countries turning outright fascist (Hungary) or religious-authoritarian (Poland), it's a classic game of shifting goalposts. CDU also was modernized by Merkel after the right-wing conservatives got booted off/sidetracked in the early '00s following a massive donation / tax scandal ("Schreiber-Spendenaffäre") and so the CDU still enjoyed wide popularity as a result, while the Eastern European conservatives never had that push.

Woodi 6y ago
>> CDU might be considered conservative by Western European >> standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards. > Which is mostly a result of Eastern European countries > turning outright fascist (Hungary) or religious- > authoritarian (Poland), it's a classic game of shifting > goalposts. You are seriously wrong aka naive or intentionally missing truth. a) current Hungary and Poland ruling parties just trying to make their countries strong, finish with some colonialism-like practices. Nothing fashist or autoritarism here. b) liberal and socialist (ex commies hire) disqualificate themselves via scams and -gates, stupidity and not doing ANYTHING for their own ppls. You should better start to be concern about democracy in France (military state by now), Germany (censorship) and Espana (country suicide).

krageon 6y ago

That's more a reflection on how incredibly broken Eastern Europe is. Definitely not a stick to measure anything by. Just like how we do not measure political leaning by US standards (spoiler alert: everything is left wing).

9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
Social issues are definetly not, every single country in Europe would cringe on Californian liberals and think they were high on something. Don't agree with that what so all.

iterativ 6y ago

They want more or less government spending ? They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation). They want less or more police ? Reform the prison system (even dissolve it), maybe ? What are their views on immigration ? Multiculturalism ? Should we tax the wealthy more or less ? Of course, there are different political ideologies. It's not just a popularity contest.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
> "They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation)" What does this mean? How is alleged population related to family structure and sexual relations?
- Perseids 6y ago
  I think grandparent was alluding to a separation of the two concepts of sexual relations and family structure: (Two or more) People can decide to bring up a child together without being in a romantic/sexual relationship. (Two or more) People can be in a romantic and/or sexual relationship without sharing responsibility of a child of one of the partners. Under this prerequisite, a family is any close social connection surrounding children (and the closeness and type of closeness being the linchpin of whether the term applies – not every flat share is a family for instance). Regarding overpopulation: One motivation that I've heard quite often is that one of the most effective ways to reduce your carbon footprint is to have one child less. This is always presented with the asterisk that this is of course a very personal decision and there is the understanding that this is not a standard under which you will be measured. Still, if you're just looking at the numbers, that's what you get. Sharing parentage with more than two people is an alluring way to achieve the same result, especially as it means you will retain more of your personal time when child care is shouldered by three (or more) people.
thefounder 6y ago
>> Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation)" For some reasons I thought Europe has an aging population issue and demographic decline not overpopulation. >> families with more than two parents I never heard of this unless you consider divorced people.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]