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I’ve studied Afro-Cuban percussion for 28 years now and I can tell you from experience there are some bata rhythms that definitely make the listener enter into
by FlyingSideKick 6y ago
I’ve studied Afro-Cuban percussion for 28 years now and I can tell you from experience there are some bata rhythms that definitely make the listener enter into a heavy trance state. Haitian vodun drumming is especially designed for generating trance and out of body experiences in its entirety. If you can find an old recording of Haitian voodoo drums give it a listen using good headphones with your eyes closed, and after about twenty minutes you will enter an altered state.
- blkhp19 6y agoIt would be great if you could link to a recording that you think could induce this state, given that you’re an expert in this field! If I’m left to search on my own I’m not sure I’ll find the correct recording.
- sk5t 6y ago+1 and why must it be an "old recording" - have modern Haitian voodoo drummers lost the way? Seems a bit set-up for shifting goalposts...
- dr_dshiv 6y agohttps://youtu.be/D-mw9FJ7yec https://youtu.be/D-mw9FJ7yec This is from the 50s-60s.
- lultimouomo 6y agoSo should I get in a trance state listening to this?
- vanderZwan 6y agoAfter four minutes? I doubt it. In my experience with trying to meditate to rhythms it takes fifteen minutes to half an hour before you really notice a significant difference to meditation without it. Also, "should" is not really the right word to use here - I would go with "might". What I mean with that is that this isn't like a pill whose are chemicals will do its on their own after consumption, with or without thinking about them. It's an effect that is produced through a sensory interaction with the brain. As a result, how one consciously attends to that interaction has a huge impact on the effectiveness.
- briefcomment 6y agoPretty great, but that poor chicken.
- bryanrasmussen 6y agoif you have perfection in a product, the only evolution possible is for it to become less perfect. People being people the best are not content with always doing the same thing, so they will experiment and move away, following other influences. The drumming may become great in other ways but not great in the way of inducing trance states the way it once way. Just my theory on why it might be that an old recording is better for inducing trance than a newer one might be.
- Drakim 6y agoYour point is technically correct, but it seems a bit preposterous to say that the old drumming music was flawless perfection in introducing these sort of effects, to the point where any change would by definition be a determent. How would you know that? How would anybody know that?
- bryanrasmussen 6y agoyeah, I wouldn't know, but if the old recordings seem better for inducing trance and the newer not I offer an explanation why that could be without the newer generation of Haitian voodoo drummers necessarily having to be worse drummers.
- pantalaimon 6y agoProbably new regulations.
- willturman 6y agoIt became much harder to find the psychoactive stuff once they were classified as Schedule 1 rhythms.
- exikyut 6y agoThat would be a great name for a band.
- thewarrior 6y agoI’ve been experimenting with this myself and this video https://youtu.be/BwqH7l9xSgo https://youtu.be/BwqH7l9xSgo along with some breathwork does seem to work.
- farseer 6y agocan you describe this "breathework"? So we can determine if mild asphyxia can be ruled out.
- thewarrior 6y agoI advice people to take it slow and stop if uncomfortable. Whether it’s involved or not it works.
- omarchowdhury 6y agoTry this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxboZrFcvRo& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxboZrFcvRo& Give it your entire attention.
- 0xdeadb00f 6y agoI did not give it my entire attention, I'll do that later. But I will say this is just genuinely good music.
- khofstadter 6y agovery good music, thanks!
- vertbhrtn 6y agoInteresting music with a few novel techniques (a rarity in modern music), but it hardly has any physiological effects.
- sbierwagen 6y agoIf we're talking drum-based drone ambient, there's Man Forever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1b6chDYxK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1b6chDYxK4
- montalbano 6y agoNot OP but Smithsonian Folkways record label would be, in my mind, the best online source for such recordings. For example: https://folkways.si.edu/music-of-haiti-vol-2-drums-of-haiti/caribbean-world/album/smithsonian https://folkways.si.edu/music-of-haiti-vol-2-drums-of-haiti/... https://folkways.si.edu/rhythms-of-rapture-sacred-musics-of-haitian-vodou/caribbean-world/music/album/smithsonian https://folkways.si.edu/rhythms-of-rapture-sacred-musics-of-...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- playingchanges 6y agoAwesome. There are plenty of modern forms of music / rhythms indented to induce trance as well. Disco four on the floor and Techno come to mind.
- Trasmatta 6y agoThere was an interesting section in Michael Pollan's book "How to Change Your Mind" about combining breathwork with drumming. It seems with the right setup that you can induce certain altered states of consciousness that are pretty equivalent to certain psychedelics. I'm definitely interested in seeing what can be done to without the aid of drugs. As someone who had some bad trips that gave me 6 months of anxiety, a non drug induced altered state sounds preferable. That being said, even something as seemingly benign as meditation can lead to intensely challenging experiences in certain situations. But overall, not relying on drugs seems generally safer.
- noir_lord 6y agoI've found there are certain Tool songs (46 & 2, Lateralus) that it's not a good idea to listen to when doing something that requires focus (like riding my motorcycle), they make me get lost and zone out far faster. On the other hand when trying to calm my mind after a busy day there is nothing better.
- Guthur 6y agoI really like Tool but never get that...unfortunately :) Maybe try "We Are" on Asymmetry by Karnivool as well. I find the drums quite mesmerising, i've heard it's not quite as complex as it sounds.
- iamthealchemist 6y agoI frickin love that album
- lvturner 6y agoI read this comment whilst listening to Forty Six & 2 thinking the exact same thing! In fact, that's often why I listen to Tool!
- ngcazz 6y agoI'm considering trying LSD soon for its therapeutic potential and am concerned about anxiety as an input and output of tripping, as it were. Would you be open to sharing your experience with me? Sorry if that's out of line.
- loosetypes 6y agoBit of an aside but various states consciousness has always been front of mind in certain regards with Haitian culture. Zombie-mania has been in the US for a while now, but in Haiti it, at least in part, originally referred to when you zone out going through rote day-to-day actions without thinking. Can’t remember where you parked your car? You were a zombie when you did it. Etymologically it’s interesting as well, to be taken (literally “mounted”) by a lwa or spirit.
- dbtc 6y agoFascinating. It sounds like the exact opposite of "mindfulness".
- taneq 6y agoAnd interestingly, sounds pretty similar to the 'state of flow' that we also find so valuable.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y agoIt could be more nuanced than that. In zombie-like states it looks like System 1 takes over and you just do basic activities without really being present in them. In the "flow" state you need to actively engage System 2, although at the same time you tend to reduce the amount of external stimuli to focus on the action at hand.
- Delk 6y agoI think it's different in that in a state of flow, you are intensely focused on whatever it is you're doing, and are able to maintain that focus without struggle. In a "zombie" state, you may not really be focusing on anything at all, least of all what you're doing.
- adgsadgsasdg 6y agothere's also that whole fraud-by-scopolamine tradition in haiti that contributes to zombi-mania....
- 6y ago
- stef25 6y agoCould you recommend any artists or albums? Love this stuff!
- rolfea 6y agoAbbilona has recorded a lot of these sacred Afro-Cuban "liturgies" https://sunlightsquare.bandcamp.com/album/masters-of-bat https://sunlightsquare.bandcamp.com/album/masters-of-bat
- ktopaz 6y agoTry "Disposition, Reflection, Triad" by Tool :) Truly an experience
- reinkaos 6y agoBrazilian Candomblé ritual music may have the same effect. For those who want to try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ZBZI5pSOg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ZBZI5pSOg
- rolfea 6y agointeresting you bring this up as it shares many roots with the Afro-Cuban diasporic music associated with bata drumming
- reinkaos 6y agoYeah they are both rooted in the music brought by the African diaspora. You will find this all throughout Central and Latin America, although with some variations in rhythms and instruments used.
- crawlcrawler 6y ago>> find an old recording of Haitian voodoo drums give it a listen using good headphones with your eyes closed, and after about twenty minutes you will enter an altered state I followed your trance recipe to the letter and soon entered a state of mind that on this day was novel to me. It seriously made me happy to be alive and to be human. However, that feeling didn't linger. Now I'm back to my usual miserable self, a blob of cells that all try but mostly they fail to communicate with each other in a way that is pleasant for the vessel, me. I don't think I was in a trance. Perhaps I should have danced. I'm very intrigued, though, by the idea of rhythm being a protagonist ingredient of "flow". I'm a programmer, musician only by heart, but on Wednesdays instead of instruments I play the rhythmic game of tennis. One time me and my brother, two racket-throwing outwards-acting tennis brats in need of anger management therapy both entered "flow" at the same time and it lasted a good hour and a half. In the middle of our match a large group of youngsters, perhaps thirty individuals, entered the yard and became our audience. They started to discuss our game. They correctly dismissed us as being "not top notch". They chit-chatted. They said this and that. They were merely meters away from us but acted like they were watching TV and that e could not possibly hear them. After the game we both said: were you ever bothered by the ruckus? We concluded that no, we weren't but that we could still paraphrase almost all of the comments we've heard from the audience. But during the game it seemed to us that nothing could get us out of the state of flow. In fact, neither of us understood we were in the flow state until the ruckus began. This was an out-of-mind, out-of-body and out-of-this-world experience for me that I have not been able to reproduce since. I was untouchable and I loved it.
- danparsonson 6y agoSomething like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e8bUyC55cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e8bUyC55cc
- DecoPerson 6y agoWoah woah woah you can’t just offer ketamine to people! Think of the children! Edit: This comment is intended to contribute to the discussion as well as be in jest. It’s a legitimate issue: if music can have drug-like effects, should some music be classed as a drug and controlled as such?
- danparsonson 6y agoGo on, try it... first one's free
- ganzuul 6y agoIf you are looking to compare music to drugs you are operating in a space where you need also need to consider if drugs are treated like they should be. You probably should not treat music as drugs are treated because our treatment of drugs is wrong.
- krageon 6y agoIt being the case that drug legislation is already a pile of shit and demonstrably not in the advantage of actual people, why would we make other things legislated just as poorly?
- gdyuytgh 6y agoIf people can get fun stuff for free, without putting in work, they wouldnt bother to do the said work.
- spurdoman77 6y agoGive me my free drugs
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoThis has turned into a music recommendation thread, apparently. From a different side of the world, Wardruna has a few 'trancey' tracks; here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F67VZblDrQg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F67VZblDrQg
- rolfea 6y agoI feel like with this music it's hard to separate the dance, song, and religious context. Have you experienced trance states in the sense that practioners do with Orishas embodying participants, or do you mean something else by "trance?" I think it's also interesting you indicate listeners, rather than the drummers getting into that state - my memories of learning bata drumming are largely of going into a hyper-focused state that I wouldn't describe as trancelike, but also very different than the mindset I was in playing something like orchestral music.
- cgh 6y agoEveryone is talking about music yet the “rhythm” in the article has nothing to do with music.
- betenoire 6y agoRhythm IS music
- Ericson2314 6y agoCan certain music reliably create the 3/s firing of neurons in this specific area of the brain? I'm a musician, but I don't see why the answer is obviously a "yes".
- betenoire 6y agoI don't know. I responded to the claim it had nothing to do with music.
- mtalantikite 6y agoThe experimental filmmaker Maya Deren made a short film in Haiti about some Vodoun ceremonies (and was an initiate herself). I haven’t seen it since I was around college aged, so I don’t recall what the narration was like (i.e. was it maybe exoticising), but I do remember the footage being great. Here’s an article that came up when searching for it with a link to the video, which gives some context: https://www.wilderutopia.com/performance/film/maya-deren-divine-horsemen-dance-the-living-gods-of-haiti/ https://www.wilderutopia.com/performance/film/maya-deren-div... It also is on YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4cusCpzg6tY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4cusCpzg6tY
- khofstadter 6y agoIn addition to the comments/links: Regarding music and the mind, the synchronisation/entrainment method of audio driving/sonic driving has been addressed in the book 'Music, Science and the Rhythmic Mind' by Berger and Turow. Research that looks at aligning not just the rate (tempo) of the music to brainwaves, but varieties of rhythm has been done by Jeff Strong, founder of Rhythmic Entrainment Intervention (some of his YouTube videos talk about specifics). Jeff has studies Vodou music AFAIK. Regarding altering states of mind through meditation, Jeff Tarrent's NeuroMeditation Institute has some interesting work and regarding altering states with psychedelics, the work of Andrew Gallimore's (Alien Insect's) work is also very interesting. Andrew in his YouTube video series talks about how connections in the brain change when exposed to psychedelics - I would be interested to see correlation between the way 'trance' music (without drugs) and 'psychedelics' (drugs:) create these states. Some of our work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFVzwZtmecc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFVzwZtmecc https://tedor.bandcamp.com/album/shamanic-soundscape-level-two https://tedor.bandcamp.com/album/shamanic-soundscape-level-t...