7 ms·

The 45km/h are pretty stupid. Of it was 60, there would be less pressure to mod. With 45km/h you are seen as an obstacle by cars and they overtake you in dange

The 45km/h are pretty stupid. Of it was 60, there would be less pressure to mod. With 45km/h you are seen as an obstacle by cars and they overtake you in dangerous ways.

adrianN 6y ago
I have a theory that this is due to pressure from the car industry. All non-car alternatives are nerfed: The 45km/h for these things, the 25km/h limit for electric bicycles, the 20km/h limit for e-scooters. All are 5-10km/h too slow to drive on the road without impeding traffic, making them significantly less attractive.
- gambiting 6y ago
  Or you know....it's a smart move by the legislators. Want to drive at car-like speeds? Get a car licence with everything that it involves then. With bicycles it makes even more sense - since the reality is that despite what the law says, many people ride them on pavements - so the speed should be limited to what is safe for pedestrians.
  - jablan 6y ago
    That's ridiculous. The legislators don't have any reason (except being bribed by car industry) to encourage people to use cars instead of more human-friendly modes of transport. Also, if people are riding bikes on the pavement, it's a clear signal that they don't have a safe alternative.
    - gambiting 6y ago
      >>The legislators don't have any reason (except being bribed by car industry) to encourage people to use cars instead of more human-friendly modes of transport. Wait, I'm confused now, are you arguing for or against this thing then? You do realize that the Ami is made by Citroen, which is a car company, right? So....which way is this alleged bribe supposed to flow, exactly? And really, like you can't see any reason at all? Just off the top of my head - legislators say, for the sake of safety, that if a vehicle of any type can reach 50km/h or higher, it's a car. That's a car speed, therefore it should require a car licence. Because of that, manufacturers artificially limit the speed to 45km/h, so you don't need a licence to drive one of these. I'm not sure how would the car manufacturers bribe here - for? Or against this law? Because honestly, I can make an argument for either. >>Also, if people are riding bikes on the pavement, it's a clear signal that they don't have a safe alternative. You're stating the obvious here. Equally obvious is that the councils "should just build more bike paths". But in reality there is no money to do this. Local councils have barely enough money to clean the streets and patch the worst potholes, and building new bike lanes is a far higher expenditure than this. The problem might be solved with time, or it might not. The law should reflect reality(and it does), not some made up utopia that doesn't exist.
      - sokoloff 6y ago
        In which way should the law reflect reality? Allowing bikes on pavement if there’s no money to build bike lanes? Good idea; I agree. Telling bikes to screw off and you have to walk your bike along the sidewalk because there’s no money for bike lanes here and we only allow cars on pavement? Not getting my support.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - fock 6y ago
        I don't think, building bike lanes in dense cities is hard. A bit of Jersey wall, some signs, single lane traffic for cars. You save a lot of pothole repairs soon!
        Chris2048 6y ago
        > A bit of Jersey wall, some signs, single lane traffic for cars How much do you imagine that costs?
        adrianN 6y ago
        A lot less than infrastructure for cars. For example, upgrading the A8 autobahn in Germany costs 71000€ per meter.
        Chris2048 6y ago
        Which may be appropriate for an exceptional piece of infrastructure capable of hosting heavy vehicles as well as cars. If you are going to compare "infrastructure" then you have to compare everything, including how many people benefit - everyone who shops at a supermarket benefits from the road system even if they own no vehicle.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    It is of course a smart move by the legislators, since the car industry in critically important for the economy and "proper" cars have a much larger profit margin.
- benbojangles 6y ago
  You are correct. They also build cars that can do double the speed limit and sell this as a feature. I sometimes wonder Does the theory extend to the idea that the world would collapse if petroleum taxation vanished overnight?
NiceWayToDoIT 6y ago
In EU by the law, limit inside towns and cities is 50km/h - so it is a spot on speed. By the way in cities average speed is very low. For instance in London the average speed within a mile of the city center dropped 1.22mph from an average of 6.35mph in 2016 to just 5.13mph in 2017. https://fleetworld.co.uk/average-driving-speeds-plummet-in-uks-major-cities/#:~:text=The%20study%20by%20In%2Dcar,%E2%80%93%20a%20fall%20of%2019%25 https://fleetworld.co.uk/average-driving-speeds-plummet-in-u....
- cesis 6y ago
  The limit is 50km/h but everyone is driving at ~60km/h.
  - _ZeD_ 6y ago
    well... it depends... try to do it in my old town with small streets and devious curves...
- frostburg 6y ago
  The issue stems from the fact that in Italy if you actually drive at merely 50 km/h in average roads you're perceived as an antisocial menace.
  - amatecha 6y ago
    Seems same in Bosnia, I traveled there and ppl said I should follow the speed limit at all times due to likelihood of police punishing with big fines. Uhh.. that didn't last long. I was getting tailgated and passed angrily by basically every single person on the road, and even when I did get pulled over by the police (wasn't speeding or violating any driving rule there -- I read up on them), they just sent me on my way once I acted totally oblivious and also they could barely understand my English... heh! Too much hassle to try to get a bribe out of me I guess?
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      A car I was in was stopped three times in 10 minutes the moment it crossed into the "other" part of Sarajevo. Just before, the driver suggested I watch his speed, which was 5km/h below the limit the whole time. The police were simply taking money from the other ethnic group.
nickez 6y ago
In Sweden the new standard is 40 or 30. So 45 is above the limits in most cities and towns.
pantalaimon 6y ago
You can still use old mopeds like the Simson S50/S51 that were allowed to go 60km/h and got grandfathered in. That’s why they are still very popular to this day.
ivanhoe 6y ago
In my country the law explicitly says that you have to drive such small mopeds/scooters in a such way, keeping close to the right side, that cars can easily overtake you. They are treated exactly the same as bikes, can drive on bike lanes, etc.
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  That is very dangerous forcing bicycle and scooters/bikes to drive in the gutter. When I used to ride a MB in London I did not hug the gutter that's asking to hit a grate or debris - I rode in the lane 1-2 feet from the kerb just like your supposed to. oh and I didn't not undertake other vehicles that's just asking to be killed (90%) of bile deaths are undertaking related in London
ErneX 6y ago
Barcelona is reducing the limit to 30 km/h in a lot of streets.
romanoderoma 6y ago
> With 45km/h you are seen as an obstacle by cars and they overtake you in dangerous ways. speed limits is usually 50km/h and there are 30km/h zones. These cars are not allowed on high speed roads, such as highways.

The 45km/h are pretty stupid. Of it was 60, there would be less pressure to mod. With 45km/h you are seen as an obstacle by cars and they overtake you in dangerous ways.

adrianN 6y ago

I have a theory that this is due to pressure from the car industry. All non-car alternatives are nerfed: The 45km/h for these things, the 25km/h limit for electric bicycles, the 20km/h limit for e-scooters. All are 5-10km/h too slow to drive on the road without impeding traffic, making them significantly less attractive.

gambiting 6y ago
Or you know....it's a smart move by the legislators. Want to drive at car-like speeds? Get a car licence with everything that it involves then. With bicycles it makes even more sense - since the reality is that despite what the law says, many people ride them on pavements - so the speed should be limited to what is safe for pedestrians.
- jablan 6y ago
  That's ridiculous. The legislators don't have any reason (except being bribed by car industry) to encourage people to use cars instead of more human-friendly modes of transport. Also, if people are riding bikes on the pavement, it's a clear signal that they don't have a safe alternative.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    >>The legislators don't have any reason (except being bribed by car industry) to encourage people to use cars instead of more human-friendly modes of transport. Wait, I'm confused now, are you arguing for or against this thing then? You do realize that the Ami is made by Citroen, which is a car company, right? So....which way is this alleged bribe supposed to flow, exactly? And really, like you can't see any reason at all? Just off the top of my head - legislators say, for the sake of safety, that if a vehicle of any type can reach 50km/h or higher, it's a car. That's a car speed, therefore it should require a car licence. Because of that, manufacturers artificially limit the speed to 45km/h, so you don't need a licence to drive one of these. I'm not sure how would the car manufacturers bribe here - for? Or against this law? Because honestly, I can make an argument for either. >>Also, if people are riding bikes on the pavement, it's a clear signal that they don't have a safe alternative. You're stating the obvious here. Equally obvious is that the councils "should just build more bike paths". But in reality there is no money to do this. Local councils have barely enough money to clean the streets and patch the worst potholes, and building new bike lanes is a far higher expenditure than this. The problem might be solved with time, or it might not. The law should reflect reality(and it does), not some made up utopia that doesn't exist.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      In which way should the law reflect reality? Allowing bikes on pavement if there’s no money to build bike lanes? Good idea; I agree. Telling bikes to screw off and you have to walk your bike along the sidewalk because there’s no money for bike lanes here and we only allow cars on pavement? Not getting my support.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - fock 6y ago
      I don't think, building bike lanes in dense cities is hard. A bit of Jersey wall, some signs, single lane traffic for cars. You save a lot of pothole repairs soon!
      - Chris2048 6y ago
        > A bit of Jersey wall, some signs, single lane traffic for cars How much do you imagine that costs?
        adrianN 6y ago
        A lot less than infrastructure for cars. For example, upgrading the A8 autobahn in Germany costs 71000€ per meter.
        Chris2048 6y ago
        Which may be appropriate for an exceptional piece of infrastructure capable of hosting heavy vehicles as well as cars. If you are going to compare "infrastructure" then you have to compare everything, including how many people benefit - everyone who shops at a supermarket benefits from the road system even if they own no vehicle.
- adrianN 6y ago
  It is of course a smart move by the legislators, since the car industry in critically important for the economy and "proper" cars have a much larger profit margin.
benbojangles 6y ago
You are correct. They also build cars that can do double the speed limit and sell this as a feature. I sometimes wonder Does the theory extend to the idea that the world would collapse if petroleum taxation vanished overnight?

NiceWayToDoIT 6y ago

In EU by the law, limit inside towns and cities is 50km/h - so it is a spot on speed. By the way in cities average speed is very low. For instance in London the average speed within a mile of the city center dropped 1.22mph from an average of 6.35mph in 2016 to just 5.13mph in 2017. https://fleetworld.co.uk/average-driving-speeds-plummet-in-uks-major-cities/#:~:text=The%20study%20by%20In%2Dcar,%E2%80%93%20a%20fall%20of%2019%25 https://fleetworld.co.uk/average-driving-speeds-plummet-in-u....

cesis 6y ago
The limit is 50km/h but everyone is driving at ~60km/h.
- _ZeD_ 6y ago
  well... it depends... try to do it in my old town with small streets and devious curves...
frostburg 6y ago
The issue stems from the fact that in Italy if you actually drive at merely 50 km/h in average roads you're perceived as an antisocial menace.
- amatecha 6y ago
  Seems same in Bosnia, I traveled there and ppl said I should follow the speed limit at all times due to likelihood of police punishing with big fines. Uhh.. that didn't last long. I was getting tailgated and passed angrily by basically every single person on the road, and even when I did get pulled over by the police (wasn't speeding or violating any driving rule there -- I read up on them), they just sent me on my way once I acted totally oblivious and also they could barely understand my English... heh! Too much hassle to try to get a bribe out of me I guess?
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    A car I was in was stopped three times in 10 minutes the moment it crossed into the "other" part of Sarajevo. Just before, the driver suggested I watch his speed, which was 5km/h below the limit the whole time. The police were simply taking money from the other ethnic group.

nickez 6y ago

In Sweden the new standard is 40 or 30. So 45 is above the limits in most cities and towns.

pantalaimon 6y ago

You can still use old mopeds like the Simson S50/S51 that were allowed to go 60km/h and got grandfathered in. That’s why they are still very popular to this day.

ivanhoe 6y ago

In my country the law explicitly says that you have to drive such small mopeds/scooters in a such way, keeping close to the right side, that cars can easily overtake you. They are treated exactly the same as bikes, can drive on bike lanes, etc.

C1sc0cat 6y ago
That is very dangerous forcing bicycle and scooters/bikes to drive in the gutter. When I used to ride a MB in London I did not hug the gutter that's asking to hit a grate or debris - I rode in the lane 1-2 feet from the kerb just like your supposed to. oh and I didn't not undertake other vehicles that's just asking to be killed (90%) of bile deaths are undertaking related in London

ErneX 6y ago

Barcelona is reducing the limit to 30 km/h in a lot of streets.

romanoderoma 6y ago

> With 45km/h you are seen as an obstacle by cars and they overtake you in dangerous ways. speed limits is usually 50km/h and there are 30km/h zones. These cars are not allowed on high speed roads, such as highways.