14 ms·

I built an app to fix my depression

275 points by zoozla 6y ago

fock 6y ago
mild, flu-like symptoms. Just describes how I feel since february and I'm not sure, whether it's for a hidden Covid (business travelled to Spain, when they found their first case, around 2 weeks, before they closed down...) or the depressive mood-swings I had in the past.
- lmedinas 6y ago
  That sounds not good, you should look for help. Maybe writing an App would help you drive the negative mood way ?
  - malux85 6y ago
    Or maybe see a doctor?
  - scollet 6y ago
    > Maybe writing an App would help you drive the negative mood way ? Hmmmm.....
- Insanity 6y ago
  You might be able to schedule a meeting with a psychologist online due to covid. Could be a good idea. Hope you feel better soon ;-)
- tremon 6y ago
  Lack of sleep and stress can also manifest as flu-like symptoms for me. Finding a working sleep-wake rhythm has been really difficult since working at home full-time. I love the freedom of fully being able to schedule my work hours, but it also means that I now have full control and responsibility over the rest of my daily schedule, and maintaining a healthy schedule takes more effort than I'd have expected. What really helped me is to go out and exercise in the morning, rather than lounge inside until I start work. I have more clarity during the day, which means I feel less compelled to work late to make up for my self-perceived lack of focus during the work day. And less work in the evening also means I fall asleep more easily, which has really been an issue for me in the past few months. YMMV, of course.
- zoozla 6y ago
  The first and simplest thing you could do is head to the app, and work through the Apathy section. It should give you a better clue about what's going in your mind and make the difference between what you're body is doing (maybe fighting a virus) and what your mind is doing (fighting repressed emotions). Also, ping me on Twitter @finereli. Let talk.
grecht 6y ago
I like the idea! However, I don't know much about psychology, so I'd personally be hesitant to create such a product. Certainly "releasing emotions" without a therapist could be somewhat dangerous for some people. And perhaps what actually helped him isn't using the app, but a new sense of purpose or meaning in his life due his discovery of the book and developing the app. It'd probably be wise to consult an expert on the psychological backgrounds.
- 867-5309 6y ago
  agreed. in most cases it is a lifelong battle. what worked for them will not work for all. I do like the idea of the more holistic, self-led approach though
- coffeefirst 6y ago
  I had the same thought—making a thing can be cathartic, especially if you wind up listening to relaxing music the entire time you’re working on it. As far as risk goes this seems low voltage enough to be at worst harmless.
- zoozla 6y ago
  Thanks for your honesty. Yes, I am going out on a limb creating a product that is based on non-standard methods, and there is some risk to people using it - we all have different and complex responses to events. I've given a lot of thought to the question what would happen if someone killed themselves because of the app? It still keeps me up at night. But I won't stop looking for better answers because the current state of the art in dealing with this isn't enough. Having a clear goal helps with depression, but leaving my job and trying to start a business around it makes it worse. I'm pretty sure using the app is what's keeping me sane these days, while building it is trying to bury me.
- jonex 6y ago
  > Certainly "releasing emotions" without a therapist could be somewhat dangerous for some people. I think this in itself can be a dangerous thought. Agree that some people have dire need for help, an in particular some people might need medication for their condition to avoid getting into self harm behaviors. (Schizophrenia victims for instance.) However, diving into emotions, trying meditation, and other things is not something to be considered dangerous and to be avoided without professional help. Being afraid of such subjects might in itself lead one to not be able to deal with them. Most people don't have a stand by therapist to consult every time they have some emotions bottled up. Providing people with a structured approach to meditation/listening to emotions is not like suggesting to someone to do their own surgery. It's more like suggesting to treat a sore muscle with some tradition based massage. Claiming that it mitigates the need for proper treatment for serious issues would be immoral, but proper treatment isn't always effective (most of the time it's not effective at all) and isn't always available.
emilburzo 6y ago
The blog seems down, but the page it linked to is still up: https://beta.wuju.app/ https://beta.wuju.app/
- agumonkey 6y ago
  not anymore, gotta be patient :)
  - coronadisaster 6y ago
    down again... https://archive.is/JAd24 https://archive.is/JAd24 ... but the app is now down too.
- rnotaro 6y ago
  App is down now but the archived version works perfectly : https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062544if_/https://beta.wuju.app/#!/topics https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062544if_/https://beta.w...
neonate 6y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifiner.com/how-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifi...
- tomashubelbauer 6y ago
  The site is down _and_ IA is down (for me at least) at the moment as well. I feel like I hit a jackpot.
- fouc 6y ago
  ironically I get a "The Internet Archive's sites are temporarily offline." message here
- numpad0 6y ago
  working https://archive.is/JAd24 https://archive.is/JAd24 working http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://blog.elifiner.com/how-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://... no archive found https://megalodon.jp/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.elifiner.com%2Fhow-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression%2F https://megalodon.jp/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.elifiner.com%2Fh...
Rainymood 6y ago
Website seems down. Have you ever heard of Quirk or Daylio? I use Daylio to track my daily moods and that also helps a lot...
- leksak 6y ago
  I've used Daylio. For me, the problem with using it long-term is that the different moods are contextual to the overall stat you are in. Meaning, I could have a "rad" day when in a depressive state which simply meant I wasn't overburdened with depression. Meanwhile, when not in a depressed place an "okay" day might still be leaps and bounds better than any days that were lived through duringthe depression(s)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rladd 6y ago
FYI please spell check! Poor spelling makes things look less credible ("tedius", etc.)
tuatoru 6y ago
If you managed to finish the app, you weren't very depressed. Depression acts primarily on willpower. The bad feelings come as a consequence of not being able to get anything done.
- ElvisTrout 6y ago
  That’s rather presumptive.
- jdsalaro 6y ago
  > If you managed to finish the app, you weren't very depressed. I disagree, as someone with experience in the matter. I think is fine to question whether OP's depression was a real major depressive episode or to what extent they were really depressed. However, the succinctness of your comment leads me to believe that it's more simplistic than anything and thus counterproductive while discussing depression. It's not always a matter of "but was it real depression, though?" > Depression acts primarily on willpower. Depression acts on everything and shouldn't be characterized so easily. That's exactly what happens in real life, where a statement like yours can instantly nullify the efforts of someone trying to tell you that, yes, they look normal, but something is wrong. To that, you'd likely reply, "but Jane, you don't look that depressed!" Some people are able to keep operating on certain realms, which IMHO is the key to getting out of the rut; grasping whatever still motivates you, even if just a bit, to operate at 1% of your normal capacity and "power" on. > The bad feelings come as a consequence of not being able to get anything done. I repeat, not always and not for everyone as the causes for circumstantial and clinical depression are too many to count and so are the symptoms and the way they are externalized.
  - GordonS 6y ago
    > Depression acts on everything and shouldn't be characterized so easily ^^ This. I've battled with depression since I was something like 7-10 years old, and it's just not as simple as the GP implies. Depression affects different people to different degrees, and has different impacts - human beings are afterall very complex beasts. Being depressed also doesn't necessarily mean that you feel that low all the time - or at least that those feelings aren't in the foreground. Some days, weeks or months are worse that others. It's absolutely always there, but sometimes I can have a streak of weeks where I feel like I'm winning, and it's only in the background. I'd also add that people with depression cn be very good at hiding it, to the point where they can even be hiding it from themselves. Barring occasional random on the internet, like now, I haven't told a single real person about it for the 30-year (and counting term) of my depression. Despite growing up with a parent with manic depression, somehow I didn't even recognise the way I felt as depression until I was in my 20's.
fouc 6y ago
Wow this app is quite neat. Basically it's like a catalogue of different emotions and mental states and it's got prompts that take you through them and help you to identify and focus on them and help you work through them in a very low-pressure way. Very nice!
leksak 6y ago
Love the blog website. Clean, legible text. No fluff.
newbie789 6y ago
I'm kind of confused. As a highly empathetic person you're offering a "solution"? I'd assume others have experiences other than your own and that might not be particularly applicable in their individual situations? I apologize if I'm not getting this.
- rnin100 6y ago
  Well the site is down so we can't know for sure right now. However, I think the keyword is "my". There's nothing in the title claiming a cure for depression in general. And that's an impossible feat anyway.
- zoozla 6y ago
  Yes, I do think what I've built is the beginning of a solution applicable to many other people. Not that the wave is over, the site is back up and you can see for yourself.
Ardren 6y ago
I don't want to disparage anyone, and I will take a look at the app when it's back up, but I'm not even sure what depression is anymore. Mild flu symptoms is not a phrase I'd used. It's great that more people are talking about their mental health, and that it's becoming more acceptable to seek help. But the word "depression" has become so murky to me, I rarely know what people mean when they use it. Maybe I just don't understand the word...
- elric 6y ago
  Stanford's Sapolsky does a pretty good job explaining what is and isn't. I recommend the full lecture, it's interesting stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc
  - Ardren 6y ago
    Thankyou, I'm watching it now.
  - nient 6y ago
    Here is a condensed, blog-post version, based on that Robert Sapolsky's lecture. https://www.scienceme.com/the-biology-of-depression.php https://www.scienceme.com/the-biology-of-depression.php
  - getpost 6y ago
    Sapolsky himself struggles with depression, which he claims is genetic, IIRC. Not that I know anything, but I was struck that someone with his knowledge and intellect seemed to have given up attempting to treat it. He maintained psychological defenses that made me wonder whether he'd received adequate care. I'm not sure where I heard this, but likely it's one of the following podcasts, which are worthwhile. Sam Harris #91 - The Biology of Good and Evil https://samharris.org/podcasts/91-biology-good-evil/ https://samharris.org/podcasts/91-biology-good-evil/ YT version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLWzMH8psFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLWzMH8psFU Peter Attia #51 – Robert Sapolsky, Ph.D.: The pervasive effect of stress – is it killing you? https://peterattiamd.com/robertsapolsky/ https://peterattiamd.com/robertsapolsky/
melvinroest 6y ago
To me it seems the strategies and tools we're able to build for ourselves often hit the mark much more often than any mainstream advice could give us. In part, this seems to be because we know our idiosyncratic nature much better, but also because we have skin in the game and are therefore willing to be way more creative in solving our own problems. I've built apps for similar(ish) reasons solely for myself in order to deal with whatever issue I had to deal with. A good example is using TiddlyWiki and simply making a journal with a few fixed questions that simply was asking how I was doing on a few psychological/physiological measures (i.e. exercise and so on). I've been in the situation where people sought my advice to fix their issues, whatever they were, and applied my strategies. Sometimes they hit the nail and worked, other times they catastrophically failed because they worked against the nature of the person. While one has to pick their battles, I'd advocate for people to consider making their own tools/techniques/strategies to deal with their issues. I know this isn't always possible or a smart move to do. But I've seen that it's more often the best move in the long-term than not. Oh, and of course that doesn't exclude recruiting help along the way :)
- rnin100 6y ago
  Oh I love TW! Although I'm a novice, I've found some use in scoring my journal entries to find out my monthly/all-time mental health score, as well as my food score. It's nice for knowing how I was in previous months. As for the present, I know when I'm doing poorly in either of those areas, but it's harder to dismiss them as normal when I see their abysmal scores.
- tennineeight 6y ago
  >skin in the game Thank you so much! I have long felt outside help as lacking in understanding but this just flipped the switch in my brain. This opens many more opportunities to explore.
  - waihtis 6y ago
    If you haven't, read Nassim Taleb's Skin in the Game (and heavy recommendation on his other literature too.)
jokoon 6y ago
no https, doesn't render without js seems like it's a gathering scheme...
dmos62 6y ago
Hey! I've spent a half hour using your app and it's great! I was feeling a bit tense, confused and unmotivated this morning and going through the technique with your app really made a difference. Thanks! For those not in the know, this is based on what's sometimes called the Sedona Method. There's a popular book about it by Hale Dwoskin [0] and the questions (and phrasing) in this app are almost exactly the same (the self-questions are an important part of the technique). I've been geeking out about psychological self-help for a long time and this is by far the simplest and most effective (especially in terms of the ratio between accessibility and effectiveness) method I've come around. The idea, to summarize it crudely, is that you can just let go of feelings. You're a layer cake of stuff and the more you take off the better things get. At first it sometimes feels like "ok, I've let go of this basic thing, but I'm no better off" (it's a bit like the situation you'd find yourself in if you started shoveling a landfill). The technique, apart from the basic insight that you can let go, provides troubleshooting and guidance that let's you get a lot of results from something that is so simple. One of the things that originally attracted me to it was the feeling I had that, whatever the mechanism behind my hangups is, it's simple, but with emergent behaviour, and this really satisfied that part of me, and has been otherwise very rewarding as well. My favorite book on the topic is Letting Go by David R. Hawkins [1], which is also one of my favorite books of all time. I could sing praises for it for a long time; it's been a big deal for me. If I need a spiritual pick-me-up, that's the book. It's a really good instruction manual for your mind, feelings, emotions. If you think you might lack emotional intelligence, this book is a good place to start too. If you feel like this method is working for you and you want to learn more, I recommend going back and forth between the two books. They have very different approaches on the same thing. I found that at different times I needed more of the one or the other. In the app, I noticed that the voice-over "letting go might be new for you" kicks in every time you're going through a new emotion. Might be better if it was there only for the first time. I think I'll be coming back to this app a lot. Thanks again! Are you considering open sourcing it? [0] https://www.amazon.com/Sedona-Method-Happiness-Emotional-Well-Being/dp/0971933413 https://www.amazon.com/Sedona-Method-Happiness-Emotional-Wel... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-M-D-David-Hawkins/dp/1401945015 https://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-M-D-David-Hawkins/dp/14019...
- zoozla 6y ago
peterarends 6y ago
This app is based on 'The Sedona Method' which has helped me in the past, but treats symptoms. For more permanent change I would suggest REBT, which has helped me even more.
rustybolt 6y ago
> I went to the doctor, told him I was feeling mild flu symptoms for a couple of months, he asked me a few questions, determined that I had depression [...] Wait, what?
- Jaruzel 6y ago
  Yes. Depression can result in a feeling of physical lethargy and general 'unwell feelings' such as headaches.
- kissgyorgy 6y ago
  Depression has well-defined symptoms. A couple of questions from a professional can really reveal it. There is a survey even, which can you fill out and shows if you are likely to suffer from it.
phre4k 6y ago
Your depression couldn't have been that bad if you could create an app against it. Regular therapy would probably have been more effective and less dangerous for others.
- dancek 6y ago
  Depression does not make a person completely incapable in every way, at least not usually. This comment comes off as belittling someone else's depression, and I'm afraid it might be very hurtful to the author.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  You know when you bang your elbow ('funny bone'), it bloody hurts like hell for a second or two, then it's gone. But if you just get a little thorn in you, or a splinter of metal maybe, it niggles away at you. My depression - possibly what some would call malaise in the past - is the latter. Suicidal ideation, for example, doesn't stop you working completely. I've just got over a couple weeks of a viral infection (not Covid19 according to tests) and just felt yesterday -- oh wow, I actually feel happy. I've been intellectually 'happy' (by which I mean that on analysis there's nothing for me to be especially down about; at least something to take joy in) many times in the last few years (my depressive period) but very rarely have I felt physically in that state. It's one thing to be alive, another to feel alive.
- ColeyG 6y ago
  This is a really hurtful and dangerous line of thinking. Imagine if you went to a Doctor and they said "you came to me to fix the problem, therefore you must not be sick". This implies to be depressed you MUST be the worst form of depressed, or nearly suicidal to be deserving of help.
- dang 6y ago
  "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- zoozla 6y ago
NalNezumi 6y ago
Read the blog post and also the other blog post in the page ( "Why discipline isn’t the answer to procrastination", "How to stick to good habits without being hard on yourself", "How fear of shame causes procrastination", "How fear of success causes procrastination"). I get the feeling that the author is in a situation a lot of people in HN could relate to: A situation where Performance Anxiety, Fear of missing out (FOMO), Fear of being left behind, distraction and ADHD all gets entangled in ones work , personal life & choice of how to spend their time. It seems like if these things are left unchecked for a long time, the things can lead to depression, or other form of negative mental state. My question is how do you solve/amend this? Reading comments from similar themed post on HN it seems like a lot of people are aware of themselves having one or more of the above. Some seems to have accepted it, others seek help from therapist. But a lot of people also seems to feel like they don't want to "lose" the feel of guilt, stress, bad self image that follow performance anxiety and fear of missing out because they take their negative emotional reaction as a virtue that pushes them to improvement in stressful times (myself being one of them). It seems like vast majority defaults to "work harder, smarter" as a solution, and only later in life when "working harder" have a diminished (sense) of return, or when they hit a wall, change their course of action.
- teekert 6y ago
  I think, as op also insinuates, it is all about acceptance. Accepting one's shortcomings, accepting that you can't do everything you want(ed), that you wont become what you always dreamed of. Love yourself despite of what you think of as shortcomings, think of the things you did achieve (and the things you have, like a stoic philosopher). You are a pretty incredible being with pretty incredible skills. If only you acknowledged yourself as such. Now this "accepting" is not just something you (can) just do, it may be exactly what you need a therapist for. Because you may have to undo years of thinking and redefine your default thought patterns, this is very hard work. For all the parents, I think this is a pretty important thing to teach your kids. Telling them: "If you work hard you can be whatever you want to be!" Is, imho, damaging, because it is not true, you are setting them up for disappointment in themselves. In short: Happiness = Reality - Expectation Don't burden yourself or your kids with unrealistically large expectations.
Jaruzel 6y ago
To everyone berating this guy about 'not being very depressed': My depression is not your depression, and your depression is not theirs. Please stop judging.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  Isn't telling people to stop judging at least as bossy? People die of depression, there's good reason there would be emotion going against its perceived over-usage.
  - mahathu 6y ago
    I agree, thank you for pointing this out. I don't mean to take anything away from people putting in the effort and helping themselves. It's great. I just feel the term depression as a medical diagnosis is used a bit excessively.
  - thatcat 6y ago
    While it can be trivializing to people who are truly depressed when the term is used superficially, you have to be careful not to assume that someones depression is superficial based on your perception. Just because someone isn't late stage clinically depressed doesn't mean they're not in some stage of that process.
- an_ko 6y ago
  To everyone but them, this comment is noise. Please reply to their comments, not at top-level.
  - dang 6y ago
    It's the contrarian dynamic: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22contrarian%20dynamic%22%20objecti%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... (Your comment is arguably the third wave and mine the fourth...)
me_me_me 6y ago
It makes me sad when i read stories like that. I feel depressed. Doctor - Take these pills. I still feel sad. Doctor - Take more pills. Medication cures symptoms of depression but cannot fix the underlying problems causing it. Taking pill to feel happy again is a patchwork that will eventually burst catastrophically.
- bserge 6y ago
  Nah, it's more of a cast or crutch or a wheelchair, gives you some space to start recovering. Or you might find that you need to rely on them for the rest of your life. Either way, it's better than nothing.
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    I am not saying that pills are bad. Rather then, pill are not going to solve the root cause. If your apendix is infected taking painkillers will mask the fact its going to bust and probably kill you. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take painkillers while waiting for a surgeon to operate on you. Maybe I should have been more precise in my original post.
- mikaelsouza 6y ago
  Agreed. I've suffered from depression for so long and most psychiatrists I visited just told me to take some pills that made me feel numb and didn't fix the underlying issue. Now I've been working with a therapist since January alongside with some pills and I feel so much better. Not only the depression symptoms are mostly gone, but I feel I know so much more about myself and now I can understand what made me feel like I did before. Anyway, if you, dear reader, are suffering from depression, I recommend you to visit a therapist with an open mind.
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    > Anyway, if you, dear reader, are suffering from depression, I recommend you to visit a therapist with an open mind. I would add on top of this, try out different therapists if current one is not working for you, rather than saying 'this is not working, i am done with therapy'.
teekert 6y ago
Very nice. I did run into a lot of useless scrollbars though (on Firefox desktop), this was discussed earlier here on HN: [0]. I guess you are an Apple Safari user ;) Oh and I may be dumb but it took me I while before I realized I had to check all the boxes, because I though: Yeah I'm in a quiet space, so I don't need my headphones. Other than that, very nice job, worked for me, impressive. Will bookmark. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421
stockavuryah 6y ago
The title reads like a satire, but the content is actually fully dystopic, as always.
Minor49er 6y ago
The app is really calming. It's what I imagine it would be like to interact with software that was designed by Alan Watts.
- zoozla 6y ago
  Holy crap, being compared to Mr. Watts is spiking up my imposter syndrom :) Thank you so much!
godtoldmetodoit 6y ago
I just spent 5 minutes with the app, and had a revelation about my fear of failure and how it relates to my parents that I've never had before. Thanks for sharing this.
- zoozla 6y ago
  Warms my heart to hear that, I'm so happy it helped you!
dawg- 6y ago
So many mental health apps these days with so little high quality evidence of their effectiveness. And there are so many of these apps out there, why would someone build their own? Maybe OP is onto something though. Could it be that the creative process and challenge of building an app to solve a personal problem is just as good a treatment for depression as the app itself?
- cabaalis 6y ago
  Part of my job is analyzing quality metrics surrounding depression. Everyone is failing, and uncontrolled depression is an unseen pandemic. We are in rapid innovation phase.
  - jointpdf 6y ago
    Quality metrics surrounding depression? Can you elaborate? Also, are you the right person to complain to about the quality of my depression? It is quite poor and I would like get a refund.
    - cabaalis 6y ago
      "Quality metrics" is an industry term regarding hitting certain benchmarks of care in a provider's patient population to measure "quality" of care by a provider or group. Payers measure providers for various reasons using well-defined protocols. An example of a depression protocol is depression remission: (1) Was an index test performed in prior year to identify depression (2) Was a followup performed this year (3) Does the followup test indicate depression has gone into remission. There are various other measures for depression.
      - zoozla 6y ago
        The only thing I can currently measure in the app is the intensity of an emotional experience - before the process and after the process. I'm still compiling the stats, but I think the average reduction in intensity of the experience of e.g. apathy is about 40%. I really like the idea of incorporating a standard depression symptoms test into the app and then taking another test at a later stage to see the longer term change. It still won't be conclusive proof, but it would help.
emilepetrone 6y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifiner.com/how-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifi...
- zoozla 6y ago
  Thanks! I think I got the server sorted out.
zoozla 6y ago
Holy smokes guys, I went to sleep after posting this and woke up to the tiny server running my blog dead and about a 100 comments here. I'll get my kid to school and then sort everything out. Thanks!
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  It's a cool approach to a problem a lot of people are struggling with right now. It's also not trying to sell me something right off the bat. Great work! It's a net positive contribution to a planet that needs it right now.
- amerkhalid 6y ago
  Thanks, I am playing with the app, it looks great. I got one question what other books did you read on Highly Sensitive Person (HSP)? And if you recommend any? I have been told that I am "Empath" and lately reading up on it (mostly online). Empaths and HSP seems related, based on quick research.
  - zoozla 6y ago
    Yes, I think these are related concepts. I read a whole host of books that are related and have been influential. Off the top of my head (on top of HSP): The Big Leap The Sedona Method The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership Hold Me Tight The Four Tendencies
Jeff_Brown 6y ago
This isn't how he built it; it's why he built it. It doesn't describe what the app does at all, just its goal ("help you deal with emotions").
calimac 6y ago
Https://Ibogaineclinic.com David has advanced protocols that treat depression. I have seen individuals who had decades long bouts with depression recover 100% through this treatment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltJfEfnM2ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltJfEfnM2ek
pr2tik1 6y ago
Nice!
idreyn 6y ago
Thanks for sharing. I'll share one reaction I had — these sorts of things are normally narrated in professional, glossy, somewhat saccharine voices, and it was a fun and surprising moment of human connection to realize, hey, this is just some dude talking into his laptop mic! While I imagine you might consider investing in professional VO at some point, there's something really nice about the way it is now. I wonder what it's like for you to hear your own voice asking these questions of you — is there any value in that specifically?
- zoozla 6y ago
  I'm doing my damnest to get this out to as many people as I can and not worry about perfectionism that killed many of my projects in the past. I did use my laptop mic for the recording and I did get better gear but didn't get a chance to re-record the narration. It's interesting to hear that the lo-finess is actually helpful. Yes, I'm just a dude (with a bit of an accent to boot!) :) I usually use the app without my narration - I find it distracting. Most people using the app over the long term tend to turn it off to, and listen deeper to their inner guidance (which is the whole point - the app is helping you to become your own therapist, not me being yours).
jokowueu 6y ago
Acceptance
narrator 6y ago
The best thing I did for my mental health this last year was get the audio book of "The Untethered Soul." Interestingly enough, I found out about this book on HN last year. This is a fantastic book about spirituality that is really practical. I've listened to this book about 5 times all the way through and it never gets old. The guy who wrote it is the real deal, not some random guru. The Surrender Experiment, his other book, is also good because it shows how he applied it all in his life to make him self a self-made tech multi-millionaire and to go through some pretty hard struggles and build a large spiritual community along the way.
posedge 6y ago
I'm glad I found this. I will come back to your blog and to the app. Thanks for sharing.
jonwilson 6y ago
I've been meditating almost daily for several years, and I've read numerous books and tried many different methods. I found this app very helpful, and I'll probably incorporate it into my routine. The technique relates closely to the root of most, or maybe all, mindfulness practices, which revolve around feeling your emotions and their sensations in your body. At the same time, it is a very simple practice, not heavy on theory, that anyone can try immediately. Really, really excellent work--thank you for building and freely sharing this.

275 points by zoozla 6y ago

fock 6y ago

mild, flu-like symptoms. Just describes how I feel since february and I'm not sure, whether it's for a hidden Covid (business travelled to Spain, when they found their first case, around 2 weeks, before they closed down...) or the depressive mood-swings I had in the past.

lmedinas 6y ago
That sounds not good, you should look for help. Maybe writing an App would help you drive the negative mood way ?
- malux85 6y ago
  Or maybe see a doctor?
- scollet 6y ago
  > Maybe writing an App would help you drive the negative mood way ? Hmmmm.....
Insanity 6y ago
You might be able to schedule a meeting with a psychologist online due to covid. Could be a good idea. Hope you feel better soon ;-)
tremon 6y ago
Lack of sleep and stress can also manifest as flu-like symptoms for me. Finding a working sleep-wake rhythm has been really difficult since working at home full-time. I love the freedom of fully being able to schedule my work hours, but it also means that I now have full control and responsibility over the rest of my daily schedule, and maintaining a healthy schedule takes more effort than I'd have expected. What really helped me is to go out and exercise in the morning, rather than lounge inside until I start work. I have more clarity during the day, which means I feel less compelled to work late to make up for my self-perceived lack of focus during the work day. And less work in the evening also means I fall asleep more easily, which has really been an issue for me in the past few months. YMMV, of course.
zoozla 6y ago
The first and simplest thing you could do is head to the app, and work through the Apathy section. It should give you a better clue about what's going in your mind and make the difference between what you're body is doing (maybe fighting a virus) and what your mind is doing (fighting repressed emotions). Also, ping me on Twitter @finereli. Let talk.

grecht 6y ago

I like the idea! However, I don't know much about psychology, so I'd personally be hesitant to create such a product. Certainly "releasing emotions" without a therapist could be somewhat dangerous for some people. And perhaps what actually helped him isn't using the app, but a new sense of purpose or meaning in his life due his discovery of the book and developing the app. It'd probably be wise to consult an expert on the psychological backgrounds.

867-5309 6y ago
agreed. in most cases it is a lifelong battle. what worked for them will not work for all. I do like the idea of the more holistic, self-led approach though
coffeefirst 6y ago
I had the same thought—making a thing can be cathartic, especially if you wind up listening to relaxing music the entire time you’re working on it. As far as risk goes this seems low voltage enough to be at worst harmless.
zoozla 6y ago
Thanks for your honesty. Yes, I am going out on a limb creating a product that is based on non-standard methods, and there is some risk to people using it - we all have different and complex responses to events. I've given a lot of thought to the question what would happen if someone killed themselves because of the app? It still keeps me up at night. But I won't stop looking for better answers because the current state of the art in dealing with this isn't enough. Having a clear goal helps with depression, but leaving my job and trying to start a business around it makes it worse. I'm pretty sure using the app is what's keeping me sane these days, while building it is trying to bury me.
jonex 6y ago
> Certainly "releasing emotions" without a therapist could be somewhat dangerous for some people. I think this in itself can be a dangerous thought. Agree that some people have dire need for help, an in particular some people might need medication for their condition to avoid getting into self harm behaviors. (Schizophrenia victims for instance.) However, diving into emotions, trying meditation, and other things is not something to be considered dangerous and to be avoided without professional help. Being afraid of such subjects might in itself lead one to not be able to deal with them. Most people don't have a stand by therapist to consult every time they have some emotions bottled up. Providing people with a structured approach to meditation/listening to emotions is not like suggesting to someone to do their own surgery. It's more like suggesting to treat a sore muscle with some tradition based massage. Claiming that it mitigates the need for proper treatment for serious issues would be immoral, but proper treatment isn't always effective (most of the time it's not effective at all) and isn't always available.

emilburzo 6y ago

The blog seems down, but the page it linked to is still up: https://beta.wuju.app/ https://beta.wuju.app/

agumonkey 6y ago
not anymore, gotta be patient :)
- coronadisaster 6y ago
  down again... https://archive.is/JAd24 https://archive.is/JAd24 ... but the app is now down too.
rnotaro 6y ago
App is down now but the archived version works perfectly : https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062544if_/https://beta.wuju.app/#!/topics https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062544if_/https://beta.w...

neonate 6y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifiner.com/how-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifi...

tomashubelbauer 6y ago
The site is down _and_ IA is down (for me at least) at the moment as well. I feel like I hit a jackpot.
fouc 6y ago
ironically I get a "The Internet Archive's sites are temporarily offline." message here
numpad0 6y ago
working https://archive.is/JAd24 https://archive.is/JAd24 working http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://blog.elifiner.com/how-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://... no archive found https://megalodon.jp/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.elifiner.com%2Fhow-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression%2F https://megalodon.jp/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.elifiner.com%2Fh...

Rainymood 6y ago

Website seems down. Have you ever heard of Quirk or Daylio? I use Daylio to track my daily moods and that also helps a lot...

leksak 6y ago
I've used Daylio. For me, the problem with using it long-term is that the different moods are contextual to the overall stat you are in. Meaning, I could have a "rad" day when in a depressive state which simply meant I wasn't overburdened with depression. Meanwhile, when not in a depressed place an "okay" day might still be leaps and bounds better than any days that were lived through duringthe depression(s)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rladd 6y ago

FYI please spell check! Poor spelling makes things look less credible ("tedius", etc.)

tuatoru 6y ago

If you managed to finish the app, you weren't very depressed. Depression acts primarily on willpower. The bad feelings come as a consequence of not being able to get anything done.

ElvisTrout 6y ago
That’s rather presumptive.
jdsalaro 6y ago
> If you managed to finish the app, you weren't very depressed. I disagree, as someone with experience in the matter. I think is fine to question whether OP's depression was a real major depressive episode or to what extent they were really depressed. However, the succinctness of your comment leads me to believe that it's more simplistic than anything and thus counterproductive while discussing depression. It's not always a matter of "but was it real depression, though?" > Depression acts primarily on willpower. Depression acts on everything and shouldn't be characterized so easily. That's exactly what happens in real life, where a statement like yours can instantly nullify the efforts of someone trying to tell you that, yes, they look normal, but something is wrong. To that, you'd likely reply, "but Jane, you don't look that depressed!" Some people are able to keep operating on certain realms, which IMHO is the key to getting out of the rut; grasping whatever still motivates you, even if just a bit, to operate at 1% of your normal capacity and "power" on. > The bad feelings come as a consequence of not being able to get anything done. I repeat, not always and not for everyone as the causes for circumstantial and clinical depression are too many to count and so are the symptoms and the way they are externalized.
- GordonS 6y ago
  > Depression acts on everything and shouldn't be characterized so easily ^^ This. I've battled with depression since I was something like 7-10 years old, and it's just not as simple as the GP implies. Depression affects different people to different degrees, and has different impacts - human beings are afterall very complex beasts. Being depressed also doesn't necessarily mean that you feel that low all the time - or at least that those feelings aren't in the foreground. Some days, weeks or months are worse that others. It's absolutely always there, but sometimes I can have a streak of weeks where I feel like I'm winning, and it's only in the background. I'd also add that people with depression cn be very good at hiding it, to the point where they can even be hiding it from themselves. Barring occasional random on the internet, like now, I haven't told a single real person about it for the 30-year (and counting term) of my depression. Despite growing up with a parent with manic depression, somehow I didn't even recognise the way I felt as depression until I was in my 20's.

fouc 6y ago

Wow this app is quite neat. Basically it's like a catalogue of different emotions and mental states and it's got prompts that take you through them and help you to identify and focus on them and help you work through them in a very low-pressure way. Very nice!

leksak 6y ago

Love the blog website. Clean, legible text. No fluff.

newbie789 6y ago

I'm kind of confused. As a highly empathetic person you're offering a "solution"? I'd assume others have experiences other than your own and that might not be particularly applicable in their individual situations? I apologize if I'm not getting this.

rnin100 6y ago
Well the site is down so we can't know for sure right now. However, I think the keyword is "my". There's nothing in the title claiming a cure for depression in general. And that's an impossible feat anyway.
zoozla 6y ago
Yes, I do think what I've built is the beginning of a solution applicable to many other people. Not that the wave is over, the site is back up and you can see for yourself.

Ardren 6y ago

I don't want to disparage anyone, and I will take a look at the app when it's back up, but I'm not even sure what depression is anymore. Mild flu symptoms is not a phrase I'd used. It's great that more people are talking about their mental health, and that it's becoming more acceptable to seek help. But the word "depression" has become so murky to me, I rarely know what people mean when they use it. Maybe I just don't understand the word...

elric 6y ago
Stanford's Sapolsky does a pretty good job explaining what is and isn't. I recommend the full lecture, it's interesting stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc
- Ardren 6y ago
  Thankyou, I'm watching it now.
- nient 6y ago
  Here is a condensed, blog-post version, based on that Robert Sapolsky's lecture. https://www.scienceme.com/the-biology-of-depression.php https://www.scienceme.com/the-biology-of-depression.php
- getpost 6y ago
  Sapolsky himself struggles with depression, which he claims is genetic, IIRC. Not that I know anything, but I was struck that someone with his knowledge and intellect seemed to have given up attempting to treat it. He maintained psychological defenses that made me wonder whether he'd received adequate care. I'm not sure where I heard this, but likely it's one of the following podcasts, which are worthwhile. Sam Harris #91 - The Biology of Good and Evil https://samharris.org/podcasts/91-biology-good-evil/ https://samharris.org/podcasts/91-biology-good-evil/ YT version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLWzMH8psFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLWzMH8psFU Peter Attia #51 – Robert Sapolsky, Ph.D.: The pervasive effect of stress – is it killing you? https://peterattiamd.com/robertsapolsky/ https://peterattiamd.com/robertsapolsky/

melvinroest 6y ago

To me it seems the strategies and tools we're able to build for ourselves often hit the mark much more often than any mainstream advice could give us. In part, this seems to be because we know our idiosyncratic nature much better, but also because we have skin in the game and are therefore willing to be way more creative in solving our own problems. I've built apps for similar(ish) reasons solely for myself in order to deal with whatever issue I had to deal with. A good example is using TiddlyWiki and simply making a journal with a few fixed questions that simply was asking how I was doing on a few psychological/physiological measures (i.e. exercise and so on). I've been in the situation where people sought my advice to fix their issues, whatever they were, and applied my strategies. Sometimes they hit the nail and worked, other times they catastrophically failed because they worked against the nature of the person. While one has to pick their battles, I'd advocate for people to consider making their own tools/techniques/strategies to deal with their issues. I know this isn't always possible or a smart move to do. But I've seen that it's more often the best move in the long-term than not. Oh, and of course that doesn't exclude recruiting help along the way :)

rnin100 6y ago
Oh I love TW! Although I'm a novice, I've found some use in scoring my journal entries to find out my monthly/all-time mental health score, as well as my food score. It's nice for knowing how I was in previous months. As for the present, I know when I'm doing poorly in either of those areas, but it's harder to dismiss them as normal when I see their abysmal scores.
tennineeight 6y ago
>skin in the game Thank you so much! I have long felt outside help as lacking in understanding but this just flipped the switch in my brain. This opens many more opportunities to explore.
- waihtis 6y ago
  If you haven't, read Nassim Taleb's Skin in the Game (and heavy recommendation on his other literature too.)

jokoon 6y ago

no https, doesn't render without js seems like it's a gathering scheme...

dmos62 6y ago

Hey! I've spent a half hour using your app and it's great! I was feeling a bit tense, confused and unmotivated this morning and going through the technique with your app really made a difference. Thanks! For those not in the know, this is based on what's sometimes called the Sedona Method. There's a popular book about it by Hale Dwoskin [0] and the questions (and phrasing) in this app are almost exactly the same (the self-questions are an important part of the technique). I've been geeking out about psychological self-help for a long time and this is by far the simplest and most effective (especially in terms of the ratio between accessibility and effectiveness) method I've come around. The idea, to summarize it crudely, is that you can just let go of feelings. You're a layer cake of stuff and the more you take off the better things get. At first it sometimes feels like "ok, I've let go of this basic thing, but I'm no better off" (it's a bit like the situation you'd find yourself in if you started shoveling a landfill). The technique, apart from the basic insight that you can let go, provides troubleshooting and guidance that let's you get a lot of results from something that is so simple. One of the things that originally attracted me to it was the feeling I had that, whatever the mechanism behind my hangups is, it's simple, but with emergent behaviour, and this really satisfied that part of me, and has been otherwise very rewarding as well. My favorite book on the topic is Letting Go by David R. Hawkins [1], which is also one of my favorite books of all time. I could sing praises for it for a long time; it's been a big deal for me. If I need a spiritual pick-me-up, that's the book. It's a really good instruction manual for your mind, feelings, emotions. If you think you might lack emotional intelligence, this book is a good place to start too. If you feel like this method is working for you and you want to learn more, I recommend going back and forth between the two books. They have very different approaches on the same thing. I found that at different times I needed more of the one or the other. In the app, I noticed that the voice-over "letting go might be new for you" kicks in every time you're going through a new emotion. Might be better if it was there only for the first time. I think I'll be coming back to this app a lot. Thanks again! Are you considering open sourcing it? [0] https://www.amazon.com/Sedona-Method-Happiness-Emotional-Well-Being/dp/0971933413 https://www.amazon.com/Sedona-Method-Happiness-Emotional-Wel... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-M-D-David-Hawkins/dp/1401945015 https://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-M-D-David-Hawkins/dp/14019...

zoozla 6y ago

peterarends 6y ago

This app is based on 'The Sedona Method' which has helped me in the past, but treats symptoms. For more permanent change I would suggest REBT, which has helped me even more.

rustybolt 6y ago

> I went to the doctor, told him I was feeling mild flu symptoms for a couple of months, he asked me a few questions, determined that I had depression [...] Wait, what?

Jaruzel 6y ago
Yes. Depression can result in a feeling of physical lethargy and general 'unwell feelings' such as headaches.
kissgyorgy 6y ago
Depression has well-defined symptoms. A couple of questions from a professional can really reveal it. There is a survey even, which can you fill out and shows if you are likely to suffer from it.

phre4k 6y ago

Your depression couldn't have been that bad if you could create an app against it. Regular therapy would probably have been more effective and less dangerous for others.

dancek 6y ago
Depression does not make a person completely incapable in every way, at least not usually. This comment comes off as belittling someone else's depression, and I'm afraid it might be very hurtful to the author.
pbhjpbhj 6y ago
You know when you bang your elbow ('funny bone'), it bloody hurts like hell for a second or two, then it's gone. But if you just get a little thorn in you, or a splinter of metal maybe, it niggles away at you. My depression - possibly what some would call malaise in the past - is the latter. Suicidal ideation, for example, doesn't stop you working completely. I've just got over a couple weeks of a viral infection (not Covid19 according to tests) and just felt yesterday -- oh wow, I actually feel happy. I've been intellectually 'happy' (by which I mean that on analysis there's nothing for me to be especially down about; at least something to take joy in) many times in the last few years (my depressive period) but very rarely have I felt physically in that state. It's one thing to be alive, another to feel alive.
ColeyG 6y ago
This is a really hurtful and dangerous line of thinking. Imagine if you went to a Doctor and they said "you came to me to fix the problem, therefore you must not be sick". This implies to be depressed you MUST be the worst form of depressed, or nearly suicidal to be deserving of help.
dang 6y ago
"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
zoozla 6y ago

NalNezumi 6y ago

Read the blog post and also the other blog post in the page ( "Why discipline isn’t the answer to procrastination", "How to stick to good habits without being hard on yourself", "How fear of shame causes procrastination", "How fear of success causes procrastination"). I get the feeling that the author is in a situation a lot of people in HN could relate to: A situation where Performance Anxiety, Fear of missing out (FOMO), Fear of being left behind, distraction and ADHD all gets entangled in ones work , personal life & choice of how to spend their time. It seems like if these things are left unchecked for a long time, the things can lead to depression, or other form of negative mental state. My question is how do you solve/amend this? Reading comments from similar themed post on HN it seems like a lot of people are aware of themselves having one or more of the above. Some seems to have accepted it, others seek help from therapist. But a lot of people also seems to feel like they don't want to "lose" the feel of guilt, stress, bad self image that follow performance anxiety and fear of missing out because they take their negative emotional reaction as a virtue that pushes them to improvement in stressful times (myself being one of them). It seems like vast majority defaults to "work harder, smarter" as a solution, and only later in life when "working harder" have a diminished (sense) of return, or when they hit a wall, change their course of action.

teekert 6y ago
I think, as op also insinuates, it is all about acceptance. Accepting one's shortcomings, accepting that you can't do everything you want(ed), that you wont become what you always dreamed of. Love yourself despite of what you think of as shortcomings, think of the things you did achieve (and the things you have, like a stoic philosopher). You are a pretty incredible being with pretty incredible skills. If only you acknowledged yourself as such. Now this "accepting" is not just something you (can) just do, it may be exactly what you need a therapist for. Because you may have to undo years of thinking and redefine your default thought patterns, this is very hard work. For all the parents, I think this is a pretty important thing to teach your kids. Telling them: "If you work hard you can be whatever you want to be!" Is, imho, damaging, because it is not true, you are setting them up for disappointment in themselves. In short: Happiness = Reality - Expectation Don't burden yourself or your kids with unrealistically large expectations.

Jaruzel 6y ago

To everyone berating this guy about 'not being very depressed': My depression is not your depression, and your depression is not theirs. Please stop judging.

Chris2048 6y ago
Isn't telling people to stop judging at least as bossy? People die of depression, there's good reason there would be emotion going against its perceived over-usage.
- mahathu 6y ago
  I agree, thank you for pointing this out. I don't mean to take anything away from people putting in the effort and helping themselves. It's great. I just feel the term depression as a medical diagnosis is used a bit excessively.
- thatcat 6y ago
  While it can be trivializing to people who are truly depressed when the term is used superficially, you have to be careful not to assume that someones depression is superficial based on your perception. Just because someone isn't late stage clinically depressed doesn't mean they're not in some stage of that process.
an_ko 6y ago
To everyone but them, this comment is noise. Please reply to their comments, not at top-level.
- dang 6y ago
  It's the contrarian dynamic: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22contrarian%20dynamic%22%20objecti%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... (Your comment is arguably the third wave and mine the fourth...)

me_me_me 6y ago

It makes me sad when i read stories like that. I feel depressed. Doctor - Take these pills. I still feel sad. Doctor - Take more pills. Medication cures symptoms of depression but cannot fix the underlying problems causing it. Taking pill to feel happy again is a patchwork that will eventually burst catastrophically.

bserge 6y ago
Nah, it's more of a cast or crutch or a wheelchair, gives you some space to start recovering. Or you might find that you need to rely on them for the rest of your life. Either way, it's better than nothing.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  I am not saying that pills are bad. Rather then, pill are not going to solve the root cause. If your apendix is infected taking painkillers will mask the fact its going to bust and probably kill you. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take painkillers while waiting for a surgeon to operate on you. Maybe I should have been more precise in my original post.
mikaelsouza 6y ago
Agreed. I've suffered from depression for so long and most psychiatrists I visited just told me to take some pills that made me feel numb and didn't fix the underlying issue. Now I've been working with a therapist since January alongside with some pills and I feel so much better. Not only the depression symptoms are mostly gone, but I feel I know so much more about myself and now I can understand what made me feel like I did before. Anyway, if you, dear reader, are suffering from depression, I recommend you to visit a therapist with an open mind.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  > Anyway, if you, dear reader, are suffering from depression, I recommend you to visit a therapist with an open mind. I would add on top of this, try out different therapists if current one is not working for you, rather than saying 'this is not working, i am done with therapy'.

teekert 6y ago

Very nice. I did run into a lot of useless scrollbars though (on Firefox desktop), this was discussed earlier here on HN: [0]. I guess you are an Apple Safari user ;) Oh and I may be dumb but it took me I while before I realized I had to check all the boxes, because I though: Yeah I'm in a quiet space, so I don't need my headphones. Other than that, very nice job, worked for me, impressive. Will bookmark. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421

stockavuryah 6y ago

The title reads like a satire, but the content is actually fully dystopic, as always.

Minor49er 6y ago

The app is really calming. It's what I imagine it would be like to interact with software that was designed by Alan Watts.

zoozla 6y ago
Holy crap, being compared to Mr. Watts is spiking up my imposter syndrom :) Thank you so much!

godtoldmetodoit 6y ago

I just spent 5 minutes with the app, and had a revelation about my fear of failure and how it relates to my parents that I've never had before. Thanks for sharing this.

zoozla 6y ago
Warms my heart to hear that, I'm so happy it helped you!

dawg- 6y ago

So many mental health apps these days with so little high quality evidence of their effectiveness. And there are so many of these apps out there, why would someone build their own? Maybe OP is onto something though. Could it be that the creative process and challenge of building an app to solve a personal problem is just as good a treatment for depression as the app itself?

cabaalis 6y ago
Part of my job is analyzing quality metrics surrounding depression. Everyone is failing, and uncontrolled depression is an unseen pandemic. We are in rapid innovation phase.
- jointpdf 6y ago
  Quality metrics surrounding depression? Can you elaborate? Also, are you the right person to complain to about the quality of my depression? It is quite poor and I would like get a refund.
  - cabaalis 6y ago
    "Quality metrics" is an industry term regarding hitting certain benchmarks of care in a provider's patient population to measure "quality" of care by a provider or group. Payers measure providers for various reasons using well-defined protocols. An example of a depression protocol is depression remission: (1) Was an index test performed in prior year to identify depression (2) Was a followup performed this year (3) Does the followup test indicate depression has gone into remission. There are various other measures for depression.
    - zoozla 6y ago
      The only thing I can currently measure in the app is the intensity of an emotional experience - before the process and after the process. I'm still compiling the stats, but I think the average reduction in intensity of the experience of e.g. apathy is about 40%. I really like the idea of incorporating a standard depression symptoms test into the app and then taking another test at a later stage to see the longer term change. It still won't be conclusive proof, but it would help.

emilepetrone 6y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifiner.com/how-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifi...

zoozla 6y ago
Thanks! I think I got the server sorted out.

zoozla 6y ago

Holy smokes guys, I went to sleep after posting this and woke up to the tiny server running my blog dead and about a 100 comments here. I'll get my kid to school and then sort everything out. Thanks!

phobosanomaly 6y ago
It's a cool approach to a problem a lot of people are struggling with right now. It's also not trying to sell me something right off the bat. Great work! It's a net positive contribution to a planet that needs it right now.
amerkhalid 6y ago
Thanks, I am playing with the app, it looks great. I got one question what other books did you read on Highly Sensitive Person (HSP)? And if you recommend any? I have been told that I am "Empath" and lately reading up on it (mostly online). Empaths and HSP seems related, based on quick research.
- zoozla 6y ago
  Yes, I think these are related concepts. I read a whole host of books that are related and have been influential. Off the top of my head (on top of HSP): The Big Leap The Sedona Method The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership Hold Me Tight The Four Tendencies

Jeff_Brown 6y ago

This isn't how he built it; it's why he built it. It doesn't describe what the app does at all, just its goal ("help you deal with emotions").

calimac 6y ago

Https://Ibogaineclinic.com David has advanced protocols that treat depression. I have seen individuals who had decades long bouts with depression recover 100% through this treatment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltJfEfnM2ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltJfEfnM2ek

pr2tik1 6y ago

Nice!

idreyn 6y ago

Thanks for sharing. I'll share one reaction I had — these sorts of things are normally narrated in professional, glossy, somewhat saccharine voices, and it was a fun and surprising moment of human connection to realize, hey, this is just some dude talking into his laptop mic! While I imagine you might consider investing in professional VO at some point, there's something really nice about the way it is now. I wonder what it's like for you to hear your own voice asking these questions of you — is there any value in that specifically?

zoozla 6y ago
I'm doing my damnest to get this out to as many people as I can and not worry about perfectionism that killed many of my projects in the past. I did use my laptop mic for the recording and I did get better gear but didn't get a chance to re-record the narration. It's interesting to hear that the lo-finess is actually helpful. Yes, I'm just a dude (with a bit of an accent to boot!) :) I usually use the app without my narration - I find it distracting. Most people using the app over the long term tend to turn it off to, and listen deeper to their inner guidance (which is the whole point - the app is helping you to become your own therapist, not me being yours).

jokowueu 6y ago

Acceptance

narrator 6y ago

The best thing I did for my mental health this last year was get the audio book of "The Untethered Soul." Interestingly enough, I found out about this book on HN last year. This is a fantastic book about spirituality that is really practical. I've listened to this book about 5 times all the way through and it never gets old. The guy who wrote it is the real deal, not some random guru. The Surrender Experiment, his other book, is also good because it shows how he applied it all in his life to make him self a self-made tech multi-millionaire and to go through some pretty hard struggles and build a large spiritual community along the way.

posedge 6y ago

I'm glad I found this. I will come back to your blog and to the app. Thanks for sharing.

jonwilson 6y ago

I've been meditating almost daily for several years, and I've read numerous books and tried many different methods. I found this app very helpful, and I'll probably incorporate it into my routine. The technique relates closely to the root of most, or maybe all, mindfulness practices, which revolve around feeling your emotions and their sensations in your body. At the same time, it is a very simple practice, not heavy on theory, that anyone can try immediately. Really, really excellent work--thank you for building and freely sharing this.