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Germany conducts first nationwide emergency warning day in decades
- _the_inflator 6y agoTension in Europe is real. This was planned well ahead of pandemics and possibility of war is finally on the table.
- jacquesm 6y agoIt has absolutely nothing to do with the pandemic and war is not on the table. Stop your fearmongering.
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- me_me_me 6y agoWar with whom? Russia? So their economy collapses the same day they attack? Aliens are more likely to attack EU than Russia.
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- jsilence 6y agoDo not feed the Trolls!
- LandR 6y agoWhere in Europe is war a possiblilty?
- lqet 6y agoTurkey vs. Greece is definitely a possibility. The tensions are extremely high at the moment and both countries are arming up.
- agapon 6y agoNo only a possibility but a fact. In very recent history and even right now.
- menybuvico 6y agoRight here and now? Nowhere. In the next 2-3 years? Well, Belarus, Ukraine and several nations around the Caspian sea have some akward situations that might escalate into something big, especially now that U.S. focus is on domestic matters and others (including the EU) might try to expand their zones of influence. In 5-10 years time, a lot could happen, depending on how the political and financial situations develop for the next year or so. There's a lot of tension right now, and worst case scenario after Brexit and COVID could mean prolonged financial difficulties that result in social unrest, and once you reach that point there's a lot of stuff that can go down-hill very fast. The probability is low, of course, but the possibility is there. EDIT: Oh, yeah, and the Greece/Turkey situation that a sibling comment mentioned is an eternal source of fun. Also, anything happening in the Near-East, like Lebanon, Syria and Israel has a potential to affect Europe and things turn quickly over there.
- T-A 6y agoApart from the obvious [1], you may have noticed Lukashenko's repeated claims that NATO is threatening Belarus [2]. A war of convenience, started to justify a Russian military intervention in the country, could easily get out of hand due to the sensitivity of the region, in particular the Suwalki gap [3]. Countries around the area, including neutral Sweden, have been ratcheting up their military preparedness to that possibility [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbass [2] https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/29/president-lukashenko-claims-nato-has-aggressive-plans-against-belarus https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/29/president-lukashenko-cla... [3] https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/suwalki-gap.htm https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/suwalki... [4] https://www.politico.eu/article/security-alert-sweden-gotland-cold-war-memories/ https://www.politico.eu/article/security-alert-sweden-gotlan...
- jcranmer 6y agoPossibility? Several places, in roughly decreasing order of likelihood by my estimation: * Russia v... well, just about anyone else. Russia has made it clear that they consider a large part of Eastern Europe to be their sphere of influence, and have twice this century (Georgia and Ukraine, the latter mostly undeclared) going to war to prevent "the West" from expanding influence. * Turkey v Greece and/or Cyprus. Discovery of gas in the eastern Mediterranean has meant that delineating EEZ boundaries there is critical, and especially given the fact that Greece owns a lot of islands just off Turkey's coast, there is an awfully high chance of flashpoints. Furthermore, there is a frozen conflict on the island of Cyprus itself that still poses risks for conflict. * Balkan War #i-don't-even-know-anymore. The place has long-lasting political antipathy between different countries that provoked two major periods of war (the Balkan Wars that culminated in World War I, and the very messy breakup of Yugoslavia). Serbia hasn't admitted that Kosovo is lost to it, and Bosnia is a fractious country that holds itself together only through a convoluted power structure that hasn't healed the wounds of the Yugoslav Wars. Reignition of war here definitely remains a possibility. * Civil war in Spain, Italy, or Britain [including a war between Britain and Ireland over Northern Ireland]. To be clear, I'm really scraping the barrel here: this is a war I consider possible, but extremely improbable. These countries have strong, persistent separatist movements--and national governments that are equally persistent in quashing them. It's possible, in exactly the wrong circumstances, that everyone ends up making moves that create a dispute that is only resolved by a war. * Don't forget the possibility of an external regional conflict escalating into a world war, much as what happened in World War I. This is largely a rehash of the first option, though, since that's the only great power alliance breakdown that could result in this situation. Note that you asked where it's a possibility, not where it is likely.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y agoAnywhere so called social hot-spots exist. Mostly concentrated around social/public housing projects, where people of different ethnicity/with migrantic background concentrate and organized (drug) criminality flourishes. The No-Go zones, expanding and overwhelming law enforcement. Some place(s) in Sweden come to mind, where they even have an App to rate the loudness of explosions, caused by turf wars of competing groups. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banlieue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banlieue in France. There seem to be some similar places in Belgium, and at least one in the Netherlands. About any https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_city https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_city / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_town with large high-rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_estate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_estate in Germany. Do I need to say anything about recent events in some downtowns in the USA?
- danieldk 6y agoThis is total nonsense. E.g. in The Netherlands we have had tests every first Monday of the month, since I can't remember how long (I am 37 now), with the exception of 1997-2003 (when it was done once a year).
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- _Microft 6y agoTests like this have been conducted on smaller scale in the past, either on Landkreis (county) level or state level. Some towns even test their fire sirens once per month. What makes this newsworthy is that it is conducted "nationwide". Beside that, it's not such a special thing.
- sdoering 6y agoAdditionally it also includes other channels, like national television, radio and warning apps on smart phones. This is something, that localized test runs normally do not include.
- _Microft 6y agoThat's correct.
- xaitv 6y agoAs someone who lives in The Netherlands I was kind of confused by this post as well. We have a monthly nationwide test of our emergency warning sirens and every so often the cell broadcast system is tested as well. I thought every/most countries did that?
- gpvos 6y agoNope. Some do, some don't. Actually, I haven't heard the Dutch monthly sirens recently. (Or maybe my Monday workplace is just too far from them?)
- Doxin 6y agoThey still test the sirens every month. The loudness is tuned to mostly alert people who are outside -- the expected action on hearing the siren is going inside anyways.
- wink 6y agoI heard from several people in smaller towns (where this is tested regularly) that today it wasn't tested. Sounds like a complete nationwide fuckup.
- mseidl 6y agoI'm German and literally just heard the siren and was like, wtf? Then I check hn and here we go! ha.
- lqet 6y agoMeh, the sirens are tested here twice a year. This is the case in many areas. Where my parents live, they are tested every 3 months. More interestingly, the federal government is realizing that it may have been a mistake to dismantle the sirens in many areas after the Cold War ended, mainly because things likes TV, radio or app messages cannot warn people at night, when their devices are off. I have heard of 3 possible fixes that are discussed: a) build more sirens again b) use the mandatory smoke detectors in every home for a warning system c) use car alarms or car horns It would be interesting to see how b) and c) are implemented without any concerns regarding security or potential for misuse.
- tejado 6y agoYour are right, that a lot of cities are doing it regulary. The interessting point here is, that there are cities that have no sirens anymore due to the removal after the cold war. So such a nationwide test will help to check the efficiency and to modernize/rebuild the system where needed. //edit: same info was added to head comment.
- retox 6y agoDo the mandatory smoke alarms already have some 'smart' capabilities with a communication network, or are they considering using them because they are mandatory, and the 'smart' implementation would come later?
- s_severus 6y agoThis is routine next door in Austria: https://www.bmi.gv.at/204_english/skkm/warning.aspx https://www.bmi.gv.at/204_english/skkm/warning.aspx Though I must admit I was very surprised the first time I experienced it (I hadn't been forewarned).
- tyteen4a03 6y agoAm in Berlin, heard absolutely nothing, not even a push from the NINA (emergencies) app. Is this thing on? tap tap
- aap_ 6y agoBerlin has no sirens anymore apparently. I also didn't hear anything.
- dependenttypes 6y agoWhy though?
- detaro 6y agoBerlin doesn't use sirens, so that part was to be expected. The latter... maybe also to be expected (government app...), but that was supposed to alert. Guess that's why we need to run tests...
- tyteen4a03 6y agoThis is strange because I always get notifications on heavy rain (where in Hong Kong we call a drizzle)
- marton78 6y agoYeah, absolutely nothing happened. Also no cell broadcast. Yeah well, I guess Berlin doesn't really matter, it's not like it's the freaking capital or something...
- taejo 6y agoCorrection to the article: the annual test day will be the second Thursday in September, not always the tenth. I don't understand why Cell Broadcast is not used. Surely many people don't have the app installed? I'd never heard of it and I've lived in this country the whole time it's been available.
- sc11 6y agoEven if you had heard of it, it's not reliable due to being a normal app. It's affected by energy saving settings, DND etc. I've had it installed for a while but the time when you actually get notified varies a lot between people, depending on their phone's behaviour. Cell Broadcast/EU-Alert is the way to go for this and I have no idea why they thought an app would be better.
- mschuster91 6y ago> I don't understand why Cell Broadcast is not used Because of utterly dumb people in charge: https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/warntag-zum-zivil-und-katastrophenschutz-wir-haben-eine-sehr-unvorbereitete-bevoelkerung-a-1def33a4-a1aa-467e-ac24-7aa56715530d https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/warntag-zum-ziv... > Unger: Ja, die Niederlande zum Beispiel setzen auf dieses Cell-Broadcast-System. Wir haben davon Abstand genommen, weil die Mobilfunknetze - wie man etwa an Silvester sieht - im Fall der Fälle nicht ausreichen. Hinzu kommt ein datenschutzrechtliches Problem. Wenn man direkt die Handys ansteuert, werden auch Bewegungsdaten erfasst. Wir setzen daher auf die App... To roughly translate: cell broadcast has a data protection problem, because directly notifying cellphones leads to movement data being recorded. Also cellphone networks don't have the capacity, as can be seen every new year's eve. Just... what the fuck! What an utterly incompetent idiot.
- _Microft 6y agoFeedback: this comment might have fared better if it hadn't contained completely unnecessary insults.
- Grumbledour 6y ago
- pascalmahe 6y agoNot on the same scale but, in France, fire alarms are tested every first Wednesday of the month at midday sharp. Though you don't hear them from everywhere so it can still be quite a shock after a few years of not hearing it.
- raxxorrax 6y agoThat would have been 15 minutes ago and it seems that nothing happened.
- plantain 6y agoThe sirens definitely went off in NRW.
- majewsky 6y agoSame here in Dresden. I was actually worried for a second because the alarm wasn't followed by the usual "this is a test" announcement.
- tejado 6y agoNot all cities have a sirene. Do you have and apps like NINA or KATWARN?
- danieldk 6y agoYou need an app? In The Netherlands they use whatever emergency warning system is built-in in iOS and Android. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202743 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202743
- Filligree 6y agoIt can't be done with an app. Those are always subject to power saving, do not disturb, etc. Any country that doesn't use cell broadcasts is doing it wrong.
- kuschku 6y agoIt has to be both - many people don't have a mobile phone, and a landline can't easily do the same, but may have a wifi-only device.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
- s9w 6y agoAnd the official national warning app (NINA) failed
- majewsky 6y agoWell, I mean, that's what you do tests for.
- s9w 6y agoThere's been an official response now: The system was overwhelmed because instead of just one nation-wide alarm, several local institutions used the system for local alarms. Which is scary: The number of local alarms was three I read (very uncertain about that number). And the nationwide alarm came 31 minutes late. That seems unreasonable, but yeah I guess the test was productive at least.
- jansan 6y agoThe whole system is flawed. They should take a look at how Japan has implemented the J-Alert system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-Alert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-Alert Cell broadcast is much more suitable than a stupid app if you want to warn people in a certain area.
- s9w 6y agoYes, obviously using the phone network is the better idea. But realistically the goal of these projects is not to create a working system. The goal is to create something "new" to leech money off the federal and EU projects, which they succesfully did.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y agoWhy is that the better idea? What if it is hacked/DDOSed, or something?
- 6y ago
- mauz0r 6y agoPeople in The Netherlands are used to this sound, hearing it every first Monday of the month at noon for the last 17 years now. I wonder how effective this will work in case of real trouble. https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/terrorismebestrijding/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-wordt-de-sirene-getest https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/terrorismebestrijdi...
- jacobush 6y agoAnd in Sweden since forever
- gpvos 6y agoActually the same in the Netherlands, except that for a few years we had "silent" alarm tests. This was of course a bad idea (actually letting everyone hear it is quite reassuring, and it's good to know what it sounds like), so this was reverted, although that took longer than it should have.
- jiehong 6y agoBavaria here, and every first Saturday the siren goes off for testing purposes as well. This was supposed to be bigger scale though. Haven’t heard anything today.
- amadeuspagel 6y agoI'm also in bavaria and did hear it. Probably a problem in your city, not in all of bavaria.
- brnt 6y agoSame here. Colloquially, it's the monthly 'Germans invading again' alarm ;)
- yxhuvud 6y agoIn Sweden it is the Fikatuta, ie a signal telling that it is time to get some coffee. (or that the Russians are invading again)
- docdeek 6y ago> Air raid sirens sounded for one straight minute starting at 11 a.m., testing their tones full blast before varying the pitch of the tone. The sirens are tested in Lyon, France on the first Wednesday of every month. It’s nothing too out of the ordinary but interesting that Germany hasn’t done it in so long.
- invalidusernam3 6y agoSame in Prague (first Wednesday of each month). I've been on calls for work the past couple times, people always ask me what the background noise is. Here it's a siren, and then a spoken message (in Czech and then in English) telling people the emergency broadcast system is being tested. It goes on for a good 5 minutes. At the start of the lockdown they blasted this [1] children's song over the broadcast system to try cheer everyone up [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YWcQRKNyjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YWcQRKNyjM
- silvester23 6y agoAs others in this thread have noted, sirens are tested (at least) once a year locally. What makes this special is that it is a centralized test for the whole country with other channels being tested as well (TV, Radio, mobile app). Where I live, it was rather underwhelming. I probably would not have noticed if I hadn't known about it before which may be a bad sign, to be honest.
- rasz 6y agoSirens turn on every year on 1 August (and sometimes also September) in Poland too, has something to do with Germany 81 years ago.
- flohofwoe 6y agoAFAIK the sirens that still exist in Germany are also still tested regularly, or at least this happened in my home village until recently, now I'm not sure when I heard that last time. The "problem" is that most sirens had been removed in the 90's when it became less likely that Germany would be steamrolled by Soviet tanks.
- ephimetheus 6y agoIt just finished. Felt a bit weird actually.
- ktpsns 6y agoOh wow. Living in a medium-sized city in Germany (300k inhabitants), I did not recieve a single message over any channel. What a great emergency warning system!
- Neil44 6y agoI remember when I was growing up in the UK in the 80’s we had siren tests from time to time. It seems strange now living in the real Cold War.
- kryptiskt 6y agoSweden tests the emergency sirens the first Monday every month at 3PM. It's kind of weird when we have dismantled most every other kind of preparedness.
- moepstar 6y agoToday, somewhere in Bavaria: I'm at work, phone goes off - significant other on the line. "Our smoke alarms just went off and i'm running around, trying to turn them off" I'm like "Ooook, have you been cooking?" - "No, nothing, been working and it just went off, also no smoke anywhere to be seen". Scratching my head, looking at my watch, 10:39 (alarms where supposed to go off at around 11:00). So, we currently have 6 connected fire alarms around the house (Hekatron Genius Plus X + Base Funk (radio) module, so they're connected). They're not connected to anything besides themselves, so i really wondered how and why they'd go off for this test alert. Thing is, the smoke alarms do have a notion of what time it is as they turn off the flashing light from 9PM to 7AM, so i wasn't quick to dismiss them catching the publicly broadcasted signal and go off too... Scratching my head even further, i figured i'd give Hekatron a call - the guy on the hotline tried really hard to keep his calm but chuckled and said it basically was just a coincidence and if the one that triggered the alarm would go off again i could basically RMA it. Lesson learned, coincidences do happen, also people do win the lottery after all :)
- solarkraft 6y agoNobody I talked to today noticed.