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This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their)

• tehwebguy 6y ago
  It doesn't mean any of that, it just means that if you want your app on Apple's app store you can only use their payment processing. Also, businesses generally don't have to do business with other businesses that are suing them.
• 52-6F-62 6y ago
  > Certainly, for public opinion, it means you now have to "tow the line", no protesting allowed. If you dare challenge us, we WILL REMOVE YOU. Isn't that how all private companies work? If you walk into a mom-and-pop corner shop with no "shoes or shirt" you'll be removed as well—whether or not you think it's some kind of righteous protest.
  • paulryanrogers 6y ago
    Those kinds of rules are for pubic health reasons. If you serve the public then you can't discriminate against protected classes. Though it may be legal to refuse service for other arbitrary reasons. When I worked in retail and scouted prices at the completion they would ask me to leave the store.
    • 52-6F-62 6y ago
      Your example is definitely better.
  • duhi88 6y ago
    If your business relies on your ability to walk in into a store with your shirt off and a mom-and-pop shop denies you access, you can look for one of their competitors. If all the mom-and-pop shops decide have a "no shirt, no service" policy, that rule probably exists for a reason (its a form of democracy). I don't really care about Epic's stake in the matter; they are clearly making plenty of money. A smaller company with a different idea that treads the line with their in-app-purchases would be in a tough place.
    • pjmlp 6y ago
      Android, Jolla, Purism,....
  • bogwog 6y ago
    Getting kicked out of a mom and pop shop isn’t going to end my business. Apple has the power to create a visible spike in the world’s unemployment graphs whenever they want. When a company gets that big, it needs to be heavily regulated and scrutinized.
    • ntsplnkv2 6y ago
      Losing sign in with apple shouldn't end any competent business either.
    • 52-6F-62 6y ago
      > Getting kicked out of a mom and pop shop isn’t going to end my business. And it would be a poor business model if it were capable of ending your business, no?
      • bogwog 6y ago
        Are you saying that the entire mobile app business is built on a flawed business model? How do you build a mobile app business that can survive being blacklisted by Apple and Google?
        • 52-6F-62 6y ago
          I didn't say that, no. And I didn't think Google was involved here?
          • bogwog 6y ago
            Google is totally involved. They aren’t as egregious about it as Apple, but they are equally guilty of stomping out competition. If you get blacklisted from Google Play, you’re basically done. Your cost for acquiring new users just skyrocketed because you now have to somehow educate people on how to enable “unknown sources”, convince them to ignore all of the incessant scary warnings about malware, etc. on top of your regular advertising costs. Unless your main demographic is computer geeks, there’s no way to succeed. Not to mention that if you DO manage to build a successful competitor to GPlay, you’ll have to worry about Google’s “white hat” hit squad at Project Zero.
  • markus_zhang 6y ago
    You can't remove them for whatever reason you put up. I won't give examples but for sure the public has to believe that the reason is reasonable enough. As for now the opinion is divided, some believe Apple is reasonable and some think not. It's interesting to see where it goes. As a customer I prefer to see Epic win this time although I'm sure EPic will do the same in Apple's shoes.
• jmpman 6y ago
  Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.
  • Nextgrid 6y ago
    I am not saying I agree with the restrictions imposed by the console manufacturers but that case is different. A console is designed for a specific task (playing games and similar software), the market is somewhat competitive and you are free to buy a PC/Mac/Linux and get 99% of the functionality (minus a few exclusive titles). In fact consoles nowadays are just PCs running a custom build of a general-purpose OS. The mobile market is different. There are only 2 dominant players (Apple and Google), they both have similar anti-competitive restrictions (side-loading on Android is a non-starter given the various security warnings, and even then the lack of officially-supported root access on Android means there are things official Google software can do that you can't do without resorting to exploits, plus Android requires you to accept Google's terms & privacy policy which does not comply with the GDPR). There are no other players; the open-source alternatives such as Pinephone are not viable alternatives as they cut you off from the vast majority of apps out there. Let's take a period-correct example, are there any Covid contact-tracing clients available for platforms besides iOS and Android?
    • d1zzy 6y ago
      You don't need to root an Android device to load applications from outside the Play store. The security warning is pretty accurate and useful for most people but if you want to load apps from outside the store then you aren't most people so it shouldn't matter. There's a reason alternatives to iOS and Android haven't picked up, some of those reasons are because for those that care to side load apps they can already do it on Android (or can go further and replace their OS) so not much incentive for a third mobile OS. If there was a strong enough need for an alternative then that would exist already.
• ProAm 6y ago
  > Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, Isn't this why people pay the Apple tax? To have them protect you (their users) from 'bad apples'? Everyone liked their over bearing approach to their eco-system until it directly affected them, and now it's too much? Have your cake and eat it too?
  • emsy 6y ago
    In my eyes Android is terrible with regards to Google’s tracking and 3rd party app quality and privacy. Apple is the better alternative in my opinion (if you want to own a smartphone, which I do), but that doesn’t mean I like their abuse of power.
    • davidandgoliath 6y ago
      Worth adding that android 11 has some features that may prove appealing re: app quality & security: https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/09/android11-final-release.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/09/android11-...
    • ProAm 6y ago
      The discussion is not about Android at all, not sure why you brought them up?
      • emsy 6y ago
        Because if you don't pay the Apple tax, that's the alternative. But I don't want to switch. I want what I have now to be better. I think sign in with Apple is a great service, but not if Apple abuses it for their perverse power games. That's disgusting. You may think my comments towards Android are inflammatory but that's not my intent, because I don't root for either company. I'm simply looking after my own interests.
        • ProAm 6y ago
          Makes sense but there are many other phone OS vendors it was just weirdly specific to bring up android, but Apple people defend the Apple tax all day on HN, specifically for their curated walled garden, which this is a direct result. This is what people intentionally pay for. (Which I also dont agree with)
• gruez 6y ago
  >tow the line isn't the expression toe the line? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line#Misspelling_as_%22tow_the_line%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line#Misspelling_as_%2...
  • tomjakubowski 6y ago
    "Toeing a towed line" could mean toeing an ever-moving, shifting line being pulled by someone else, a very challenging thing!
  • IncRnd 6y ago
    Yes, the word is "toe".
• pjmlp 6y ago
  Nope, Epic broke the contract that they signed with Apple, in an attempt to create a marketing campaign for their own store, which outside HN I bet most users don't give a dam. Like any breach of contract, it should be dealt appropriately.
  • cavanasm 6y ago
    Believe it or not, you can put illegal things in contracts, and lawsuits are there to work that situation out, which is why Epic has gone this route.
    • mythz 6y ago
      Epic went this route to inflict maximum PR damage, they could've sued without willfully violating their contract which hurt their legal case as they've now entered into the lawsuit with unclean hands which was one of the considerations used to deny their injunction for Fortnite.
      • HelloMcFly 6y ago
        They needed to do it this way to ensure they had standing to bring a suit as they can now non-hypothetically prove they've been harmed.
        • mythz 6y ago
          This is untrue. Their harm was of their own making which was why the Judge dismissed their injunction: > The Court finds that with respect to Epic Games’ motion as to its games, including Fortnite, Epic Games has not yet demonstrated irreparable harm. The current predicament appears of its own making. Epic strategically chose to breach its agreements with Apple How can purposefully violating someone's contract be a prerequisite for bringing a lawsuit against the organization whose contract you're violating? Where is the legal argument backing up "They needed to do it this way"?
          • 6y ago
• FriendlyNormie 6y ago
  It’s very easy to just follow Apple’s very reasonable rules and become obscenely rich while doing so. I’m a multimillionaire now. You’re a goddamned idiot and you should have your tongue and fingers surgically removed.
• Jyaif 6y ago
  10 billion is what, 5 months of their net profit on the app store? Even if they do get fined this amount, it would have been worth it for them to abuse their position with the developers.
• londons_explore 6y ago
  > And the EU will levy the world's biggest fine at Apple, Not soon... Apple is loved by a good majority of EU citizens, and while that's the case, the EU won't fine them. Fines are for 'evil corporations' as deemed by a voter...
  • boudin 6y ago
    What is this based on?
    • londons_explore 6y ago
      Conjecture. Laws in the EU are far less strict and precise to begin with than US laws that you might be used to. The EU competition commission has wideranging powers to fine almost any company as it sees fit for even no reason at all. But to maintain its own existence, the public (voters -> MEPs) need to think it's doing a good job. A good way to do that is to fine companies voters think are evil.
      • kzrdude 6y ago
        The anti-trust legislation used to be applied much more widely in the US, but that has changed (and we see a market with a lot of bully monopolists because of this). It doesn't really come down to if the law is precise or not, but how it is applied.
      • boudin 6y ago
        I just meant that people in eu loves apple. That's certainly not true everywhere. The market share definitely doesn't show that.
• Animats 6y ago
  Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. For Epic, though, only 12% of their revenue comes from IOS, so they're willing to dump Apple.
  • AlexandrB 6y ago
    It might be less than that if Fortnite iOS users just move over to another platform and keep playing Fortnite.
    • Animats 6y ago
      "We're sorry that you were unable to log in with Apple. Here's a discount offer on an HTC U-series phone! And we'll throw in five new Fortnite skins!"
      • ffpip 6y ago
        They got every single kid to enable 2FA on Epic Accounts by giving a free skin. My brother even asked me 'how to 2FA?'
        • mcv 6y ago
          That's a really good way to leverage security. Respect to Epic for that.
        • bsder 6y ago
          That's pure genius. Wow.
          • ffpip 6y ago
            Exactly. Just look at the search suggestions on google when you search 2FA. The first suggestion is not for important accounts like Google, FB. It's for fortnite.
        • user5994461 6y ago
• tinus_hn 6y ago
  > And the EU will levy the world's biggest fine at Apple, I predict north of $5 billion if not $10 billion for abusing their status with this being a notable case. Just like they ended the Microsoft OS monopoly abuses. Dream on.
• hello_tyler 6y ago
  They broke the TOS on purpose and are now crying about that Apple actually held the line. I think Apple is way overpriced too, but when you go into their ecosystem and profit on it - you have to play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get removed. I would expect the same treatment on any app store.
  • foota 6y ago
    I believe epic's point is that they believe the ToS to be illegal.
    • thdrdt 6y ago
      Then they should first fight it before breaking it.
      • xmprt 6y ago
        You can't sue someone unless you can prove damages. There's no way to fight this without breaking the rule first. I'm not a lawyer though so maybe there's an exception to this rule.
        • judge2020 6y ago
          NAL but you can sue without breaking contract if you're challenging the contract's legality. Epic also is generally challenging Apple's use of their position to 1) not allow other app stores, and 2) take 30% of each sale (while other processors take 3%), which would be enough damages to sue over. Epic breaking contract is entirely a PR move.
          • manicdee 6y ago
            An App Store is not a payment processor. How much of a cut is Steam taking when you sell software on their store? How much of a cut will Epic be taking when you sell software on their store? This is completely different to how much Mastercard charges you for selling stuff from your store.
• pradn 6y ago
  $5 or $10 billion don't seem like much now that Apple is a $2 trillion company...
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• fxtentacle 6y ago
  I can't help but think that the whole thing is playing out exactly like Epic had hoped. After Apple kicked Fortnite from the iOS store, there was an outcry of people who had previously spent money on it through Apple's in-app purchases and now wanted a refund. Some of those users switched to playing Fortnite on a laptop or Android phone instead, but of course they were still using Sign in with Apple if they had originally created their account and paid for items on iOS. Apple is now locking out those users. So I predict another wave of upset users, this time it'll be the people that purchased through Apple and were then attempting to play elsewhere. Meanwhile, Epic now has a very good reason to collect a working email address from every past iOS customer, which they can immediately use to offer the customer a 20% rebate on future purchases if they buy directly through Epic and circumvent the Apple tax. Plus as an added benefit, Japan has now started an antitrust investigation against Apple after various smaller Japanese game studios (most of them Unreal Engine customers) have come out in support of Epic: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-03/apple-app-store-draws-new-scrutiny-in-japan-epicenter-of-gaming https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-03/apple-app... And lastly, the combination of pressure on Epic together with the looming iOS14 update have made iOS a lot less attractive for mobile game studios, most of whom traditionally used advertisements to subsidize free players: https://www.consumeracquisition.com/game-over-ios-14-idfa-loss-drive-layoffs/ https://www.consumeracquisition.com/game-over-ios-14-idfa-lo... I found this quote which I think is quite fitting: "As the folks at Microsoft used to say in the early days of the Xbox, developers are the canaries in the coal mine. When they start dying, the platform is in trouble." https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/04/the-deanbeat-apple-must-tread-carefully-lest-it-trample-the-game-industry/ https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/04/the-deanbeat-apple-must-t...
  • paulpan 6y ago
    I think Epic absolutely needs other major game studios, and major software companies, to join in their protest to effect the desired change. Interesting point about the looming iOS14 update. Makes you wonder whether Apple will ultimately fall at their privacy sword, similar to how Google fell at its own "Don't do evil" motto. E.g. it's meaningless bravado when not applied to universally to all countries, aka China.
• fooey 6y ago
  If you rely on the good graces of Apple/Google/Twitter/Facebook/MonolithOfTheWeek for your business to survive, eventually you're going to have a bad time. Twitter and Facebook entirely eradicated based around their API's. In Apple's response to Epic, they make the case there is absolutely no way to define them as a monopoly, since even just for Fortnite, there are a half dozen competing platforms of which they note, the App Store isn't even the biggest one.
• blibble 6y ago
  > And the EU will levy the world's biggest fine at Apple, I predict north of $5 billion if not $10 billion for abusing their status with this being a notable case. then a few years later Apple will win the appeal and get every penny of it back due to Commission's overstretch
• urda 6y ago
  > Horrible company. Yes Epic is. They willingly violated their TOS to the point of even communicating that they were going to violate their TOS. Surprise, surprise if you break the rules don't be shocked when they are enforced. They also are attempting to user their Engine and customer base (against their will) to fight a battle that they don't want to be a part of. This isn't Apple just erasing a company because they felt like it, and Apple isn't the antagonizing party at all. Don't coflate the necessary need to protest against actual issues like corrupt governments versus not getting your video game the way you like it. It weakens the word and idea of actual protest.
  • MBCook 6y ago
    Epic willfully violated the TOS and went out of their way to rub it in Apple’s face. That’s a given. Apple may be allowed to do everything they’re doing by contract and more. I’m a big Apple fan but they are just... crazy on this. They seem to be going way too far and just being outright spiteful. Far far more than Apple usually does. And they’re scaring a big chunk of their developer base in the process. I don’t know what they’re thinking, but I think they’re heading towards a Pyrrhic victory at best.
    • manicdee 6y ago
      If keeping control of what apps get installed on an iPhone costs them good will with lots of developers, I think Apple is willing to make that sacrifice. Epic has already shown that they will go to great lengths to get what they want, would you trust them with your customers medical data?
• reaperducer 6y ago
  Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business It’s the hazards of building your business on another company’s foundation. There are millions of companies completely dependent on Apple, Amazon, or another organization. In tech terms, it goes back to affiliate marketing days. In real world terms, it goes back centuries. No leader should make his company dependent on another company, but it happens all the time. The only things that are different now is that the company is Apple, and that tech bubble social media outrage is a thing.
  • M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago
    is it even possible to be independent now? you have to purchase something as simple as a domain and hosting from somewhere.
  • jonny_eh 6y ago
    So the government shut you down? Shouldn't have built your company in that country. Blame the victim.
    • smachiz 6y ago
      I think the issue is that there's always inherent risks to relying on external forces. And that you literally cannot avoid external forces. This isn't unique to Apple, and it's not arbitrary or capricious on their behalf.
  • kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
    > It’s the hazards of building your business on another company’s foundation. This is one of those mindkill kind of lines someone posts in all such threads. Yes, everything in the world depends on something else. Do you also say this when companies rely on utility companies for their electricity and water? Or must I buy an island and set things up from scratch before I am allowed to start a lemonade stand? Or maybe move to a different planet entirely just to be sure?
    • vincnetas 6y ago
• paulpan 6y ago
  Is there any credence to the size of the EU fine being $5-10B? Even $10B seems a bit lenient given the size of Apple and its revenue/profits. There would need to be a feature change in addition to a fine, otherwise it'd just treated as "cost of doing business".
• m3kw9 6y ago
  Epic violates the terms purposely, which is lack of a better term, a challenge. Is like committing a crime(challenge the law) and complaining being punished
• chrischen 6y ago
  Good old greedy Epic that wants to take the 30% industry standard platform cut to fatten their bottom line and spin it as an anti-monopoly thing.
  • tpmx 6y ago
    Shame on you. You know better than that.
• mcv 6y ago
  Even $10 billion is nothing for a company of Apple's market value. What needs to happen is that Apple and the App Store become separate companies, and other companies are also allowed to sell apps on iOS devices. Restrictive walled gardens like this need to be banned.
  • mr_toad 6y ago
    It’s about 10 percent of their annual gross profit. If it was a real fine, and not just wild speculation, it would definitely impact on their financials.
• nathanvanfleet 6y ago
  Poor little startup Epic games. We are really worried for them on this one. Not sure what they will do about this. Victims as they are. Powerless.
• actuator 6y ago
  $5/10 billion seems too less for Apple, it will feel like a slap on the wrist for them. There has to be something concrete which forces them to open their platform. No company owning a big general computing ecosystem should have this much disproportionate power. I am glad that at least on a personal level I decided to diversify on my computing devices and just use their laptops now.
• outworlder 6y ago
  > Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Well, yes. Thing is, Epic essentially started a war. Had they went and sued Apple... that's normal. They could have also tried this in the EU where they would likely garner some governmental help. But the decided to violate license agreements, created smear PR campaigns and so on. It is unsurprising that Apple is hitting back. Even if Epic wins, I'm not sure the public is better served by a store from a company that punches so low. Using they customers as fodder is not ok.
  • manquer 6y ago
    > 'm not sure the public is better served by a store from a company that punches so low. Using they customers as fodder is not I would say that applies to apple lot more than epic , they have hurt their customers . Apple could also have taken epic to the courts as well and got their way if it was fair. Remember apple did the actual ban and is hurting the users now .
• Razengan 6y ago
  I disagree with everything you've said, as a user and a developer (who used to be on the Microsoft boat for far longer than on Apple's). As a user, I desire a curated platform. As a developer, I want to have access to all the users of that platform by publishing on just one store. > Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome > it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth Because many consumers agree with how Apple does things. Why is that simple fact so offensive for some of you? Nobody is being forced to buy Apple products or develop for them, they choose to. Microsoft and Google, on the other hand, are much much harder to avoid even if I don't choose to directly buy any of their products.
• kirykl 6y ago
  This applies to any business that operates a store, and a business that sells a product within that store. Replace software with retail in your example, it doesn't sound so abnormal "Walmart can, at will, remove your entire line of potato chips from your (their) customers and your existance in their stores is just gone."
  • jfim 6y ago
    Sure, but at the same time one could sell their product in different stores, or even D2C online. The store analogy also has very limited switching costs, for example if Walmart stops selling brand X of potato chips, it's inconvenient but not impractical to go out of one's way to buy them at Target. It would be different if buying potato chips at Target would involve throwing out everything one has bought at Walmart and buying the same Target-equivalent merchandise (ie. switching from iPhone to Android, one would need to buy equivalent apps).
    • pjmlp 6y ago
      Android store, Jolla store, Tizen store, Samsung Store, Amazon store. Epic's problem is that they want a Epic Store on other people's devices.
  • tramav 6y ago
    However: Does Apple support officially other app stores on their iOS platform or allows to sideload apps in a convenient manner?
    • jsjohnst 6y ago
      > or allows to sideload apps in a convenient manner? If you include using 3rd party apps like AltStore, then yes it meets a reasonable definition of convenient, imho.
    • ghosty141 6y ago
      However: Does Walmart support other Stores that sell your chips? No! You need to move away from Walmart.
• nodamage 6y ago
  > And the EU will levy the world's biggest fine at Apple, I predict north of $5 billion if not $10 billion for abusing their status with this being a notable case. Apple only has ~25% market share in the EU. Their "status" is as the minority player in the market. It's questionable whether this is high enough to violate EU antitrust laws, which have usually required at least 40% to show market dominance.
  • tramav 6y ago
    The law talks about "a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it". If we look at the iOS platform, Apple could be seen to have a dominant position there since it is the market maker there.
    • nodamage 6y ago
      The EU appears to have specific criteria for when a single company's product can be considered its own market. [1] Dominance on the aftermarket is excluded to the extent that a customer: 1) can make an informed choice including lifecycle pricing, that he 2) is likely to make such an informed choice accordingly, and that 3) in case of an apparent policy of exploitation being pursued in one specific aftermarket, a sufficient number of customers would adapt their purchasing behaviour at the level of the primary market 4) within a reasonable time. The case that established this precedent found that printer manufacturers did not have dominance in the market of "printer cartridges compatible with their printers" based on the above criteria. Whether or not this would apply to the iOS platform will have to be decided by a court. [1] https://europeanlawblog.eu/2013/09/26/the-efim-case-no-dominant-position-of-printer-manufacturers-on-ink-cartridge-aftermarket/ https://europeanlawblog.eu/2013/09/26/the-efim-case-no-domin...
• GrimRe 6y ago
  >Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. What a ridiculous thing to say. 1) You make it seem like Apple are some capricious God like entity that any moment will completely change the underlying terms and conditions you agreed to when running your business in iOS. Its simply not true. If you remove this one situation with Epic its literally never happened. 2) Consumer trust in Apple flows onto any company that is on the iOS platform. You expect Apple to give this away for free? It provides immeasurable benefit to most businesses insofar that a consumer is far more likely to purchase goods or services knowing that Apple have 'vetted' you simply by being on the iOS platform. By Apple being so strict and stringent on App Store requirements you know as a consumer they aren't doing things in the interest of the vendors which in turn benefits legitimate vendors. 3) Epic flagrantly violated the terms they had previously agreed to simply because they don't agree to the 30% cut. That style of negotiation is absolutely atrocious and Epic should be the ones being punished not Apple. If they felt so strongly about Apple's anti-trust liabilities they could have formed an alliance with other businesses and lobbied governments globally without breaking existing T&Cs. They probably would have won too and been able to get the cut Apple take to the same level that it costs Apple to run (say 15%). Instead they are trying to bully Apple into doing something that benefits Epic and Epic alone. Epic are 100% in the wrong here. Note I am neither an Epic nor Apple user.
  • jariel 6y ago
    "moment will completely change the underlying terms and conditions you agreed to" They do it all the time. The terms are vague and they can interpret them, or change their mind at will. This happens daily in small cases, and more so in bigger one's were Apple, out of the blue, demands a 30% cut of some adjacent business. Apple is in this for profit - if they can adjust the rules within legality for more money - the will.
  • tramav 6y ago
    "Epic flagrantly violated the terms they had previously agreed to" Epic probably thinks that some conditions are illegal, and therefore void. But that would also mean that Apple broke the contract with Epic when they removed the app from the store.
• mlindner 6y ago
  Sorry, but Epic Games is the horrible company here. Apple is simply protecting customers from Epic Games horrible business practices.
• zanecraw 6y ago
  As much as I like Apple's products, I do have to agree with you that they need to get off their high horse. It's insane how much power they have and they use it to rip off companies that even challenge them one bit.
  • ghosty141 6y ago
    Remember that we the customers GAVE them that power. They are allowed to do whatever they want with it. People here complain that they have so much power while wearing an apple watch...
    • friendlybus 6y ago
      I don't see Apple watch buyers signing up for implicit monopoly practices (or whatever epic's case is) because they wanted a shiny thing they saw in an ad. I didn't sign up for coke's anti-union movements in south america because I like fizzy sugar water.
• thefounder 6y ago
  I think it was always obvious that if you rely on a 3rd party to function a big and real risk is that 3rd party to cut-off your access. Same risk is with cloud services especially proprietary such Google Cloud Datastore etc
• nojito 6y ago
  There’s zero chance the EU fines Apple. Their marketshare in EU is significantly less than their marketshare in the US.
• darthrupert 6y ago
  If I had to choose one of these companies to immediately vanish, I would 100% choose Epic. Epic Megagames of the 90s made some great games, but nowadays they’re just trying to invent ways to make more money. Meanwhile Apple is actually innovating and producing useful things. Also, there seems to be an odd concentrated anti-Apple effort going on right now. Basecamp was on it recently when they immediately didn’t get what they wanted, and I believe I’ve seen similar messages from other companies in the same vein. I wish I could get a refund my hey.com account, but too late I guess. Basecamp, incidentally, seems to be another company that did great things in the past, but is now having trouble finding new innovations. Hey.com is a web-only email client that costs 100 bucks per year. This is hardly worth the posturing they’re putting out.
• tekknik 6y ago
  > Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. I feel like this was posted to serve the narrative Epic is trying to dispense. I’m on the other side of the fence and I was an Epic fan until they started to pull this crap. So a couple of things here, if you violate a contract with a company what do you expect the outcome to be? They knew exactly what they were doing, implemented a payment system and got the boot. If they didn’t want to get the boot they could’ve just not.