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Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
- dvionoth 6y agocant say im surprised honestly. as sad as it is, Messing with Putin himself rarely leads to a positive outcome.
- arcticbull 6y agoThe man is ex-KGB, installed himself in power for life and somehow his critics have a way of getting killed or tripping on some soviet nerve agents.
- autisticcurio 6y agoAnd Russia doesnt make the technology to keep everyone under surveillance 24/7, its a big country, its easier to get in and out of Russia than say the UK, and not all perceptions of freedom & privacy are accurate.
- RustyBucket 6y agoMerkel of Germany has been chancellor since 2005 (15 years) Putin has been president since 2000 with 4 years break (16 years). So technically he is not THAT bad in comparison.
- mhh__ 6y ago> 4 years break Right...
- ffdjjjffjj 6y agoGerman elections are considerably more legitimate. For one, opposition politicians aren’t poisoned.
- geogra4 6y agoWhat party is navalny a member of? How many seats do they have?
- mola 6y agoExcept she was voted without cheating, never killed the opposition or controls all branches of government and media.
- RustyBucket 6y agoVoted by who? German chancellor is elected by Bundestag and not directly by the people. I guess in terms of USA that would be like Democrats and Republicans coming up with a president.
- arcticbull 6y ago> I guess in terms of USA that would be like Democrats and Republicans coming up with a president. That's totally normal, and happens in a lot of places. For instance, in Canada, you vote for your local representatives (MPs), the party that ends up with the most MPs (roughly speaking) gets their leader installed as Prime Minister. Then, of course, the Head of State is actually the Queen who's represented by the Governor General, who is in turn nominated by the Prime Minister. None of that matters, of course, wrt: freedom.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- drran 6y agoIt's hard to tell who installed Putin into power. I suspect ex-soviet agents in Germany, Schröder[0] and Merkel, which may help him. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der
- mv4 6y agoFTA: 'The name Novichok means "newcomer" in Russian' No it doesn't. Novichok means "amateur, noob". Sigh.
- capableweb 6y agoWell, those are mostly the same. Noob (newbie, n00b) comes from newcomer/novice. Amateur I'm not sure how it fits in there. I think BBC is just using the synonym that the most people would understand (newcomer vs noob, everyone gets the first, some will not understand the second)
- 52-6F-62 6y agoGuessing it was amateur in the derogatory sense.
- krick 6y agoIf you are curious: no, "новичок" is not derogatory. Much less derogatory than a "noob", anyway, and doesn't necessarily mean incompetence. Like, say there is a hiking club with pretty much the same people going on hikes for the last 5 years, and somebody joined this club last week — this person would be called "новичок" in a friendly manner. So, yeah, "newcomer" is actually a good translation.
- 52-6F-62 6y agoI was referring to the context of the translation OP provided, that's all. So—I guess we're in agreement haha.
- sorokod 6y agoI'd translate it as "rookie".
- FabHK 6y agoAmateur is related to latin "amare" = to love, and originally refers to someone that does something for the love of it (unlike a professional, who does it for money or gain). So, an amateur need not be new to a pursuit (or bad at it). So, it seems to me (as an amateur...) that noob, novice, newcomer are better renderings of "novichok" than amateur.
- m3kw9 6y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent “ These agents were designed to achieve four objectives:[21][22] to be undetectable using standard 1970s and 1980s NATO chemical detection equipment; to defeat NATO chemical protective gear; to be safer to handle; and to circumvent the Chemical Weapons Convention list of controlled precursors, classes of chemical and physical form.[23]”
- gonzo41 6y agoThis is bad. But it was targeted. I worry about how easy it would be for terrorists to do something very bad with a large quantity of this stuff seeing it's so easy to move about.
- pps43 6y agoIt's not easy to obtain or synthesize. Terrorists prefer simpler approaches.
- thursday0987 6y ago> Terrorists prefer simpler approaches. that is a very dangerous assumption to make.
- jamescontrol 6y agoWhy? It’s likely the reason why we have seen terrorist attacks where people drive into crowds of people. Cars and trucks is everywhere, its easily accessible. I would argue that the other way around is the dangerous assumption, that people will NOT use the easiest accessible means to hurt other people.
- rumanator 6y ago> Why? Because the goal is reaching the goal, not the process. Undoubtedly, if s terrorist group has access to this stuff, they won't reject the idea of using it just because driving a van or yielding a knife might appear simpler. We're talking about lines of thinking that planned hijacking three commercial airplanes simultaneously to fly them into high visibility targets. How is spreading poison something that's outlandish when compared to that? And also, arguably this case is already the doing of a terrorist group. I mean, the end goal obviously was to get opposites to think twice for fear of risking their lives.
- yearoflinux 6y agoSo this is as confirmed as Iraq WMD and Russia collusion where the entire establishment and media comes together but ultimately this is fake? Or there is some actual proof?
- badrabbit 6y agoWow, can you be less obvious with your russia trolling? It's embarassing.
- billiam 6y agoWell, they keep trying to kill people with nerve agents developed to fool 70s technology, so draw your own conclusions. I would say that being implicated is the point they are trying to make.
- yearoflinux 6y agoDang are you now going to allow unsubstantiated comments to stay just like that? Ad-hominem "attack"?
- arodyginc 6y agoThe article mentions Novichok being produced in Soviet Union in the 80-s, whats more interesting, it's still manufactured in Czech Republic, at least until recently: https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/03/novichok-type-nerve-agent-produced-in-czech-republic-last-year- https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/03/novichok-type-nerve-agen...
- ardy42 6y agoThe wiki article seems to give more context about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent: > Novichok has, however, been known to most western secret services since the 1990s,[16] and in 2016 Iranian chemists synthesised five Novichok agents for analysis and produced detailed mass spectral data which was added to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons Central Analytical Database.[17][18] Previously, there had been no detailed descriptions of their spectral properties in open scientific literature.[17][19] A small amount of agent A-230 was also claimed to have been synthesised in the Czech Republic in 2017 for the purpose of obtaining analytical data to help defend against these novel toxic compounds.[20]
- billiam 6y agoIf it was in his tea he never would have made it on the plane. The inventor of Novichok pointed this out and said it was likely applied to his skin.
- hkai 6y agoIn the case of the Skripals, the effects were slower than that, seems to be around three hours, from quick googling.
- osipov 6y agoI'm training a machine learning model that honeypots commenters like you with provocative news articles. Next, the comments section is cleaned up to eliminate commenter spam. It works amazingly well!
- sandworm101 6y ago>> If it was in his tea he never would have made it on the plane. Everything is a function of dosage. We don't know how much was in his tea, nor how much of the tea he actually drank. "In the tea" is also functionally equivalent to it being on his teacup, although that would be a more dangerous/aggressive attack. But they did use a doorknob as a vector in the UK attack.
- chinhodado 6y agoMaybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?
- gruez 6y agoDidn't they poison some guy with radioactive isotopes a few years back? I don't think they care about it being attributed to them, or think that being attributed to them has positive value.
- austinjp 6y agoThat was Alexander Litvinenko. https://www.google.com/search?q=alexander+litvinenko https://www.google.com/search?q=alexander+litvinenko
- brippalcharrid 6y agoI recall that the [very small] quantity of Polonium-210 involved had a market value of $20 Million and was tied directly back to the state atomic agency requiring the personal authorisation of the Commander-in-Chief. So a rather extravagant and blatant way of dispatching someone (with curiously bungling assassins).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mc32 6y agoRussia knows no one is going to do anything about it. This method lets people know what tools they are willing to use on an adversary. And it’s also a signature “we did it” so you don’t have to guess who’s after you. It serves as a warning to any upstarts as well. It’s not all that different from the Ndraghetta bombings up and down Italy in the late XX cent.
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- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y agoThis guy has gotta be one of the bravest and most principled people out there. Almost anyone else would have determined that fighting this fight has no practical utility, since nothing short of a massive popular uprising could unseat Putin at this point, and Russians apparently have no appetite for such an uprising today. Hard enough to risk your life for something that might have a good outcome. To me, it's almost impossible to imagine risking my life for an effort I knew was doomed to failure.
- dcow 6y agoAnyone with such a cynical attitude like yours is inevitably doomed to failure. I’m not picking on you, specifically, just pointing out why these powers can hold such a firm grasp. Hope is really scarce these days.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ghostwriter 6y agoYou can talk the talk, but walking the walk is a different story. The OP was referring specifically to the latter - that Navalny indeed is one of the bravest, and that most people lose all their enthusiasm to object as soon as they or their loved ones are put a gun to their head (both literally and figuratively speaking). It's not cynical to observe and note this fact of life in an authoritarian state, it's simply being honest with themselves.
- Der_Einzige 6y agoHahahahaha! This cynical attitude would condemn the OP to a mundane life rather than being poisoned by a dictator. Opposition politicans in dictatorships are brave... And arguably suicidal...
- osipov 6y agoI'm training a machine learning model that honeypots commenters like you with provocative news articles. Next, the comments section is cleaned up to eliminate commenter spam. It works amazingly well!
- geogra4 6y agoIs he really the opposition leader? Who gave him that name? What party or elected position is he part of in the Duma?
- golergka 6y ago> opposition leader > in the Duma You can only choose one.
- gotstad 6y agoOpposition in Russia does not follow classic definitions. The elected opposition in Russia in the Duma is constructed by the ruling party. That opposition are opposed politically but supports “the system”. Navalnyj is part of the Opposition that is critical to the very system of Russian politics and are thus not allowed to run for elected office in Russia. That’s why the Duma opposition in Russia seldom gets a lot of votes - because it’s not really an opposition.
- trhway 6y agoPutin regime wants to make sure that Belarus fire wouldn't spread to Russia, and thus the timing of the message that they sent to whatever little opposition still exists in Russia. I mean the chances of actual popular uprising in Russia in near future is nil, yet Belarus can definitely embolden and make the opposition bigger, thus basically reverting the effects of all the opposition squashing Putin's efforts probably back to the 2012 state and making it a serious PITA for Putin.
- SomeoneFromCA 6y agoSuccess in Belarus would embolden opposition in the Central Asia though, yet another group of Russian allies.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- rosywoozlechan 6y agoI wouldn't be so quick to point the finger at Putin or a government conspiracy personally. There are a lot of powerful billionaires in Russia who exist thanks to Putin and it seems plausible that one of them, given their vested interest in keeping their patron in charge, might have poisoned the man.
- gherkinnn 6y agoIf it had been a one-off assassination attempt, maybe.
- osipov 6y agoI'm training a machine learning model that honeypots commenters like you with provocative news articles. Next, the comments section is cleaned up to eliminate commenter spam. It works amazingly well!
- siliconvalley1 6y agoAnd that billionaire just happens to have access to a Russian Military Chemical Weapon?
- onetimemanytime 6y agowell, it's Russia. USA feared that generals could sell nukes a while ago, but I sincerely doubt that any oligarch would do this without Putin's approval. Too high profile. And if Putin approved this (one way or another) there's no need for oligarchs to get involved. So it's not an oligarch thing but reaches the highest levels of Russian government
- SpaceRaccoon 6y agoYes. In the '90s Soviet nuclear submarines were being sold on the black market. Putin's grip isn't as tight as you think. I'm not denying that Navalny was poisoned with Novichok. The question is who ordered it. I'm not convinced it was Putin.
- z6sic6z 6y agoStupidly to poison someone, and then give them to other country.... 0_0 Say someone is a leader this less then 2% stupidly too...
- MattGaiser 6y agoDepends on what you want to achieve. A reliable source just verified to all other potential opponents that they might be poisoned.
- osipov 6y ago>A reliable source Right...my reliable source just verified that they might not be poisoned.
- archgoon 6y agoThe "reliable source" here is the German Government. It has confirmed that, yes, Navalny was poisoned, and yes, he was poisoned with a hard to obtain poison that has been used in the past by the Russian government. This does seem to reduce the likelihood that Navalny wasn't poisoned, or that he was poisoned by someone unconnected to the government. MattGaiser's argument is that the implied threat is the goal, which is helped by confirmation of the above.
- hnarn 6y agoYou're insinuating that the German government is lying? Or that they're not a reliable source?
- MattGaiser 6y agoNot my reliable source, but the Government of Germany.
- z6sic6z 6y agohttps://iz.ru/1056039/2020-09-02/sozdatel-novichka-prokommentiroval-otravlenie-navalnogo?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop https://iz.ru/1056039/2020-09-02/sozdatel-novichka-prokommen... Creator of novichok, about poisen
- sneak 6y agoThis is the second time they've done this, IIRC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal It's pretty much the ultimate flex, no? "We can kill anyone we want in any country, and you can't do shit about it."
- osipov 6y agoI love it how the mainstream media gets to decide what's a conspiracy theory and what's not.
- ogogmad 6y agoThe attempted murder of Sergei Skripal by Russia is a conspiracy theory? Who else would poison him with a nerve agent? Who else would have the motive? Who'd have access to such an agent?
- sneak 6y agoAll of the evidence that it was Russia is entirely circumstantial, if we're being strictly accurate here, which is... convenient. On the other hand, exactly zero other groups seem to be using those nerve agents to assassinate people, so it's a great calling card if they wish to discourage others from following in the victims' footsteps.
- mprovost 6y agoThey know who did it - two colonels and a general in the GRU. I suppose you can say it was circumstantial in that nobody caught them actually putting the poison on their doorknob, but it's pretty well accepted that 3 officers from Russian intelligence travelled to Salisbury using false identification on the day of the poisoning and then left the country. Unless you believe their explanation that they were there to "see the cathedral." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48801205 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48801205
- 6y ago
- golergka 6y agoIf you had any doubts that HN was for a long while also targeted by Russian comment farms, you should definitely read through this comment section.
- osipov 6y agoI'm training a machine learning model that honeypots commenters like you with provocative news articles. Next, the comments section is cleaned up to eliminate commenter spam. It works amazingly well!
- siliconvalley1 6y agoAstounding levels of Pro-Putin astroturfing in this thread...
- osipov 6y agoI'm training a machine learning model that honeypots commenters like you with provocative news articles. Next, the comments section is cleaned up to eliminate commenter spam. It works amazingly well!
- actionscripted 6y agoIf you ever wonder about the extent of Russia's online efforts consider that the comments on this HN thread might be part of things. Not saying anything in here is good/bad/other but you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread.
- creaghpatr 6y agoSeems like that's exactly what you are insinuating.
- osipov 6y agoI'm training a machine learning model that honeypots commenters like you with provocative news articles. Next, the comments section is cleaned up to eliminate commenter spam. It works amazingly well!
- dang 6y agoGood grief. You posted this 7 times. That's obviously abusive and obviously a bannable offense. I'm not going to ban you because I understand how crazy-making it is to represent a minority view and feel surrounded. But please don't do it again. Also, you were posting unsubstantive and flamebait comments more than once before that. Can you please not? We're trying for something better than that here. The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Razengan 6y ago> you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread. Did you somehow miss all the Apple vs Epic posts over the last few weeks?
- Buwuystai 6y agoSo let's drink to this comrades. I know I do; with all the trucking Russians everywhere. Novojstai! Let's drink buddies. Let's run the planets to the grounds. Davoi!. Let's drink vodka(s). Trucking russians..... EDIT: I literally drink heavily due to the fucking russians. Russia and china should be nuked to the ground. Fucking basic tactics. Fuck these pieces of shits. oh lol Dang is a russian operative. What could be better. My fucking post is flagged already. What could be worse. Fuck this network; ruled by russia and china, it seems. ADIOS. Good win fuckstar communist cockholes.
- lazyjones 6y agoAs far as I'm concerned, the Germans are about as trustworthy as Russia. They are currently closing the investigation around the Breitscheidplatz[1] terror attack, which has uncovered massive tampering with evidence and more open questions than answers. And let's not forget their history of false flag attacks.[2] Most of you will likely disagree, based on their current public image vs. Russia's, but ask yourselves what the known facts are. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celle_Hole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celle_Hole
- fuj 6y agoWhataboutism ftw Man, I thought you guys got better training nowadays to not be so obvious. Or maybe you're just a sad troll/apologist. Hard to tell the difference nowadays
- chundicus 6y agoA NATO member is as trustworthy as a country actively trying to destabilize democracy around the world? One who has brazenly done this sort of attack before and has a very obvious recent history of silencing dissidents? I'm all for some healthy skepticism, but this is ridiculous.
- lazyjones 6y agoA NATO member currently run by someone who grew up in a Stalinist dictatorship, with many members of the party that ruled said dictatorship currently in office around the country. > One who has brazenly done this sort of attack before and has a very obvious recent history of silencing dissidents? It is just "obvious" if you are a firm believer in accusations made by the "West".
- chundicus 6y agoOkay I'm sure there is always some post-Soviet era bias being applied, but does that change anything substantially? Did the "West" also lie about this Novichok attack on UK soil? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_... Your baseless tinfoil skepticism is extremely useful to fascists like Putin who thrive off of spreading disinformation and uncertainty. Do Western countries lie to benefit themselves geopolitically? Of course they do, but let's apply Occam's Razor here and not go looking for a global conspiracy when the answer and motivations are so blatant.
- phpnode 6y agoThe comments and voting patterns in this thread are honestly fascinating. edit: this comment got flagged within about 30s of posting.
- vernie 6y agoGood luck with this one dang
- dang 6y agoHey could you please stop posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments? We're trying to be somewhat different than that here, with the crazy idea of staving off internet heat death for as long as possible. Like any other entropy-defying strategy that takes a lot of energy. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20stave&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- nafizh 6y agoThere will never be a power vacuum in world politics. If it’s not going to be US, it’s going to be China and/or Russia. I have been thinking quite a lot how will that world look. Will it be better or worse?
- nostromo 6y agoRussia’s economy is smaller than Canada’s and per capita it’s citizens are poorer than Poles. Russia is not a world power and hasn’t been for a while.
- linuxftw 6y agoDepends on how you measure power. In this context, I think military power, Russia is the most formidable force in the eastern hemisphere.
- stared 6y agoRussia has the ambition to be great again. And nukes.
- SomeoneFromCA 6y agoAnd it is actually very sad, lots of their working class, really believe that Putin actually is successfully pulling it off.
- mikelyons 6y agoYou could say the same about America and Trump. The masses always will consume the propaganda, I don't see how this will ever be eliminated. Rather than sad, it's just part of the system. How can we improve the results? Is there a systems-thinking approach that takes this into account and bends it toward positive ends?
- BrianOnHN 6y agoPreach. This is a scary situation. And I believe HN/Ycombinator cater to the crowd that actually has the ability to disrupt this status quo. People that can really change things for the better. Let's turn this ship around. Solving this problem can be how SV rewrites it's history to become known for more than attention draining and advertising schemes.
- fghtr 6y agoI recommend lecture by economist Dr. Sergei Guriev about how Putin s autocracy works. Most of the material is explained in the first 10 minutes, then come the examples. Based on actual research papers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z66N_oKbs0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z66N_oKbs0k
- bigdict 6y agoDoes being on the side of Russia, before a proper investigation is carried out, automatically make you a “Russian troll”?.
- YarickR2 6y agoWhere are those toxicology results ?
- PoroTheMurderer 6y agoIt doesn't matter. Putin is the one to blame.
- site-packages1 6y agoWhat's going on here with all the new accounts and dead comments?
- non-entity 6y agoIts actually not all that uncommon on controversial threads. I personally don't beleive its bots as much as people who create new accounts so they can break the "flamewar rule"
- luckylion 6y agoAs even completely normal comments such as your own are quickly downvoted, it might also just be people who don't want their main account flagged for moderator attention & limitations just because a bunch of people violently disagree with them.
- ajhurliman 6y agoIs there much of a difference between programming a bot to spew propaganda and paying a person to spew propaganda?
- tkubacki 6y agoWorth noticing - literally every single of Putin's potential serious opposite candidates dies before elections in suspicious circumstances
- danpalmer 6y agoThat's not quite true. One got put in prison for "fraud".
- caiobegotti 6y agoI'm just eager for some international stability as the next person and I don't want the Cold War back (and I'd hope for a more Europe'zed world to be honest) but it's incredible how much reach of Russia and China tentacles the US allows these days. As a third-world citizen I'm very much surprised the US is basically on its knees hoping the two nations don't punch too hard.
- HeadsUpHigh 6y agoI wouldn't say the US is on it's knees, it just doesn't have the share of world power it used to have.
- BrianOnHN 6y agoAs an American, I agree with you. In my experience, the US is facing an existential crisis stemming from a loud segment of the population, emboldened by Trump, that believes and promotes propaganda in a way that I thought was reserved for third world dictatorships. I'm terrified of the day after the elections. If the left wins then, we risk retaliation from the gun-and-violence-glorifying right. If the right wins, then we still face violence from the same group at the inevitable mass protests. Edit: the fact that the president can promote essentially unheard of networks, with an already questionable record, as "real news" (OANN, and Breitbart before that) demonstrates the ease of which the propagandists are operating. Once again, something that I would have considered unheard of, even in a third world country.
- bsanr2 6y agoThe people we put in place to protect us think they're gonna make it out just fine either way. It doesn't matter who wins, because the real battle the next few years will be about defining the new rules, not playing by the old ones. The right wing is an extreme minority that has obtained influence mostly by hacking the system. Anyone who stands up to them and patches the exploits will have a post-facto mandate, but that only happens if they have the guts to do it ("it" being things like passing airtight restrictions on legislative procedure; packing the bench; and dismantling the means by which representation is warped, like the electoral college or the filibuster). This is why as a liberal I have little faith in Biden, Harris, Pelosi, or Schumer.
- nomadnomad 6y agoPutin's approval rating is actually pretty high even when measured by NGOs sponsored by the "West". You'll be surprised, but it is quoted to be 60% in July 2020. [1] And while it is possible to blame Putin for this Navalny's incident, he isn't the only one with motive/opportunity. It is actually very sad that some HN readers sometimes have a strong tendency to blame Trump/Putin/Another for Everything. I get that they are very unpopular figures among liberals/progressives, but let's at least try to pretend to be more objective for a minute. How about maybe for a second or a little longer just think about it before proclaiming that clearly it's Putin? How about being maybe a little bit more self-critical for a minute? Maybe you don't have all the information and all the facts yet? Or maybe some facts aren't facts yet, and maybe there is a massive propaganda campaign (BBC/CNN/etc.)? In my opinion, there is an alternate hypothesis. Putin is trying to finish building the last 6 km of the gas pipeline to Germany. It has been blocked by US sanctions for a long time. This incident adds fuel to the fire, and conveniently allows the US to impose more sanctions, and bend Germans (who actually want that pipeline because it is beneficial for Germany) to their will. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Vladimir_Putin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Vladimir_Putin
- BrianOnHN 6y ago> allows the US to impose more sanctions Trump has done nothing but cater to Russia, which has been discussed at length. Lookup Russian bounties on us soldiers. And whatever doubt-sowing your attempting can easily be disregarded by Occam's Razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
- nomadnomad 6y agoCheck the facts. Trump has actually imposed a TON of additional sanctions on Russia. Just google "trump imposes sanctions on russia". C'mon, you can do better.
- yuliyp 6y ago> In my opinion, there is an alternate hypothesis. It could also have been his kids. Maybe they feel neglected. Is there any evidence of this? The similarity of this attack to the one on Skripal a couple years ago objectively points to the Russian government being involved as the most likely possibility. Naturally most of the information around this is and will remain out of the public eye, but claiming that the "It's Russia" and "It's the US" hypotheses are anywhere close to being equally likely is, at best, naive.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- amai 6y agoI wonder if https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_29155 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_29155 is also behind this assassination attempt. But until now they used to work only outside of Russia (Skripal, Gebrev, ...).
- scottlocklin 6y agoThere was reasonable reason to believe Berezovsky was responsible for the Litvinenko poisoning; it's not inconceivable something like that is going on here with some other oligarch Nalvany pissed off; he is a corruption reformer more than anything else. Since the BBC is a propaganda organ rather than a news service, they are singularly unlikely to present us with any of the other potential candidates, but I could probably think of a few that Nalvany might have annoyed. It's also kind of weird they'd use such an apparently ineffective poison when prussic acid or ricin (or car accidents) would do the work rather more reliably. Novichunk didn't work on the Skripals either. Where are the Skripals anyway? Whatever happened: one thing is for certain: Western media, the BBC in particular is an enormous basket of fail in reporting on anything out of Russia. No shortage of numskulls who have never actually visited the place or talked to any of its people who seem really sure of themselves though.
- lightgreen 6y ago> There was reasonable reason to believe Berezovsky was responsible for the Litvinenko poisoning No there were no reasons to believe Berezovsky poisoned Litvinenko. Litvinenko was the one who revealed attempt to kill Berezovsky. Berezovsky and Litvinenko worked together against Putin. There was no motive for Berezovsky to kill Litvinenko. In addition to that: Berezovsky was far less powerful when Litvinenko was poisoned. Obtaining polonium was not trivial for Berezovsky. And finally, UK police found who poisoned Litvinenko, it was Andrei Lugovoi who is currently a member of parliament in Russia. There are no connections between Lugovoi and Berezovski, but obviuosly there are connections between Lugovoi and Russian government. In fact, Lugovoi was given a medal for "serving the fatherland" some time after the poisoning. No, Berezovsky did not poison Litvinenko, and you are spreading conspiracy theories.
- scottlocklin 6y agoYeah thanks a lot for the completely citation and content free comment, Mr 77th brigade or whoever you are. The evidence: Litvinenko and Berezovsky had a falling out, and Litvineko's newest scheme was to run blackmail on various russian oligarchs, possibly including Berezovsky[0]. Berezovsky was no angel and is well, nobody ever proved it, but was strongly suspected to have assassinated an unauthorized biographer[1] (whose book "Godfather of the Kremlin" everyone should read to understand recent Russian history). Lots of people besides me have suggested as much. [2] Berezovsky certainly attempted to use the Litvineko death to his propaganda advantage; he could as easily have done it himself, or suggested such actions might be useful to some other oligarch in Litvineko's sights. I'm well aware of who British propaganda and Litvinenko blamed: I just don't uncritically accept these assertions. The possibility is certainly there that the standard assertion here is baloney, just as the possibility the Novichok tale is not entirely accurate. Western media blames Putin and "the Russians" for everything from Donald Trump to when the foam goes flat in their coffee; if Russian intelligence were so all fired competent, you'd think they'd have been able to take over America, steal some of its industries or like do some obvious projections of power that I don't need Rachel Maddow tier conspiracy theories to believe. Or at least, you know, conquer Kharkiv or something. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/dec/03/russia.world https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/dec/03/russia.world [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov [2] https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/12/13/wikileaks-conjures-litvinenkos-ghost-2/ https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/12/13/wikileaks-con... http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2006/12/04/alexander-litvinenko-blackmailer-smuggler-gangster-extraordinaire/ http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2006/12/04/alexander-litv...
- tim333 6y agoI've been sidetracked reading about why the Russians are into poisoning people. Some of it seems to go back to SMERSH which as well as being James Bond's nemesis was a real organisation set up by Stalin as "an organised “liquidation” programme intended to eliminate Stalin’s opponents" as well as Nazi collaborators. After the war it continued under different names and for example: >One failed attempt was on the life of Lisa Stein, a radio broadcaster in West Germany who in March 1955 only narrowly survived a dose of the lethal toxin scopolamine concealed in a box of chocolates And I guess maybe the tradition continues. https://www.thearticle.com/the-kremlins-long-reach https://www.thearticle.com/the-kremlins-long-reach
- itroot 6y agoGuy from Russia here. Not an expert, but I feel the pain when my country looks so negative in the news. First, I wish Alexey fast recovery. Second, Alexey wasn't a popular politic figure in past time, I believe that his peak of popularity was in 2013-2015. Third, I think no one here is actually benefiting from this tragic event... the whole story just seems quite strange. Frankly, there a lot of more simple approaches that can kill a man - no need to use sophisticated things like chemical weapons (which actually doesn't work as intended). I hope that this story will be more clear pretty soon.
- lightgreen 6y ago> I feel the pain when my country looks so negative in the news. I'm from Russia, and I feel pain when people mix my country and my my country corrupt and criminal government.
- tanyatik 6y ago> I'm from Russia, and I feel pain when people mix my country and my my country corrupt and criminal government +1000 - it often feels that people geniunely don't see any difference.
- lazyjones 6y agoStrange when it often comes from people who, when asked about their own country, have the same opinion about it.
- stefantalpalaru 6y ago> I hope that this story will be more clear pretty soon. Don't hold your breath. And even if something challenges the narrative, it might remain under the radar. How many people have heard about this surprising turn of events in the Yushchenko poisoning case? "University professor Lothar Wicke lost his job as clinical director at the Rudolfinerhaus Clinic amid controversy over claims which emerged during the Ukrainian election campaign that opposition candidate Victor Yushchenko had been poisoned. Wicke clashed with management over the clinic’s involvement in the media campaign about Yushchenko’s condition, which, according to Wicke, was billed as poisoning even before it had been diagnosed." - https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140673605663544.pdf https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS014067360...
- ibobev 6y agoI'm not a chemist but it seems that Novichok is the poison with the worst track record. It was claimed that this is extremely dangerous military grade neuro agent, but currently from six people claimed to be poisoned with it only one died. I'm starting to wonder why the Russian secret services blamed using it against political opponents, try it again and again. It is completely possible that they want not to kill, but just to intimidate, but also it is completely possible that the "Novichok" is just a propaganda weapon of the West.
- lightgreen 6y ago> six people claimed to be poisoned with it only one died We don't know how many people were poisoned and died, and death was attributed to natural causes. Novichok agent is not something easily detectable. In particular, in Skripal case, it was an accident that his daughter was visiting him, and they both found unconscious on the bench. Otherwise, it would be a cardiac arrest of 66 yo man, hard life, it happens, nothing unexpected.
- thelastname 6y agoBut why would them choose Novichok? They are the only one having binary nerve gas, there is no possible deniability.
- relaxing 6y agoThey want it known who did it. Because it sends a message to others.
- alkyon 6y agoTsars may be long dead, but the methods haven't changed much.
- hansdieter1337 6y agoConspiracy theory: The US did it to piss of the EU against Russia. I strongly disbelieve that the Kremlin is that stupid. There are way easier ways to kill someone without leaving a big red sign like an UDSSR poison. Ofc I don’t have any proof, but that’s why they call it a conspiracy theory, right? :)