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India bans PUBG, Baidu and more than 100 apps linked to China
- samfisher83 6y agoWhat if they ban like xiaomi or one plus. Those are like the most popular phones in India.
- gpm 6y agoI mean, I guess that would be a great benefit to the non-Chinese competitors then, Samsung, Google, Apple, etc. I don't see that this would be hugely disruptive to the country. Is there some reason you think it would be?
- ETHisso2017 6y agoXiaomi / Oneplus are ~50% of the cost of Samsung/Google/Apple phones
- gpm 6y agoAre they? That hasn't been my experience in Canada but maybe pricing is different in India? Could you point to some specific cheap phones by those companies so I could see if I can find comparable phones by non-Chinese companies?
- kyawzazaw 6y agoextra tariffs on iPhones. Look here: https://www.mi.com/in/ https://www.mi.com/in/
- gpm 6y agoAt the top of that page is the Redmi 9a for 6,799. Here is a similar phone from samsung for Rs. 6,499. https://www.91mobiles.com/samsung-galaxy-m01-core-32gb-price-in-india https://www.91mobiles.com/samsung-galaxy-m01-core-32gb-price...
- bgee 6y agoThat Redmi has 8 cores (cpu released in 2020) compared to the Samsung with 4 cores (released in 2017). On Antutu benchmark, the Redmi is almost 5x higher [0]. So I don't think they can be considered "similar". [0]: https://gadgetversus.com/processor/mediatek-mt6739-vs-mediatek-helio-g85/ https://gadgetversus.com/processor/mediatek-mt6739-vs-mediat...
- simion314 6y agopeople that buy Chinese phones won't buy Apple, maybe Samsung if they have no choice, with this Chinese phones you have good value deal.
- sudosysgen 6y agoXiaomi phones are better and cheaper than Samsung, Google, and certainly Apple equivalents. The Mi 10 Ultra is ~780$ and is just flat out better than a 1200$ phone from Samsung, including the best camera of any phone bar none.
- throwaway4good 6y agoIndians would have to buy a more expensive phone from Samsung in the middle of a massive recession that gives them less money in their pockets.
- nmridul 6y agoXiaomi now makes their phones in India. https://in.event.mi.com/in/made-in-india https://in.event.mi.com/in/made-in-india
- d3nj4l 6y agoOnly 65% of the value, and tbh, the R&D is in China, and most of the data collection that mi does benefits China much more than India. Hard to call it a phone "By India For India."
- ffpip 6y agohttps://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VyFV6DmT1Ts/VZU3XajjCgI/AAAAAAAAFq0/NxdEKgpcX0E/s1600/Digital%2BIndia%2BProject.jpg https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VyFV6DmT1Ts/VZU3XajjCgI/AAAAAAAAF...
- nfc_ 6y agoYes following this logic India should emulate North Korea's Juche or go back to its old socialist days to keep 100% of the valye
- maerF0x0 6y ago> India's IT Ministry said it had "credible information" the latest batch were acting against India's interests. I'd venture to say many apps are against _everyone's_ interest due to the caustic effects on society they have.
- threatofrain 6y agoSort of calls into question the quality of the citizen in a modern democracy if they are asked to make judgments on war and industry and yet they cannot be trusted with online video games.
- magicsmoke 6y agoThe founders of modern democracy already questioned the quality of the average citizen and whether they could be trusted with policy making. Hence the US was founded as a representative democracy. Citizens didn't make judgements on war and industry, they made judgements on politicians that would do so on their behalf.
- vkou 6y agoThe founding fathers were so concerned about this, that the US was also founded as a representative democracy, where the only people whose opinions counted were wealthy white landowning men. Let's not look at a model where less than 2% of the population could vote as some brilliant stroke of foresight. It was created by aristocrats for aristocrats. Mind you, this post does not advocate for direct democracy, but the origin myth of the founding fathers always needs to be looked at with a bit more context then it is usually afforded.
- Igelau 6y agoYou may be right, but that still wouldn't say anything about their decision to construct a representative democracy. It just sounds like you have an ax to grind against a bunch of dead guys.
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- green-bottle 6y agoLike all other internet bans in India I doubt this one will have any teeth. Everyone has a "Free" VPN app that they use to bypass these restrictions. Most people own Android phones where they can sideload apps downloaded from some third party APK website (of questionable trustworthiness) iPhones have negligible penetration in India so are not even a part of the equation.
- castis 6y agoIt seems reasonable to me that most people would not go to such lengths as sideloading apps or employing a VPN to route around these issues.
- ffpip 6y agoYou severely underestimate how Indian teens are addicted to PUBG. Kids have spent lakhs of their parents rupees on it. [1] Some have even dies due to addiction. [2] [1]- https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/aug/17/pubg-controls-the-mind-2184257.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/aug/17/pu... [2] - https://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/16-year-old-addicted-to-pubg-lost-his-life-after-skipping-food-water-for-days/ https://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/16-year-old-addicted-to-pubg... There are many more. I just gave a single example.
- d3nj4l 6y agoFor clarification, 1 lakh = 100 thousand. INR 100k ~= $1400, which is about the median annual household income in India.
- castis 6y agoI dont think I do though. Video game-addicted teens dont constitute 'most' of the Indian population.
- d3nj4l 6y agoVideo game addicted young adults with a vendetta against the government could turn out and vote against it, though I wouldn't hold my breath for that.
- ETHisso2017 6y agoI'm hearing that China might impose secondary sanctions on Reliance Jio in retaliation - no Chinese manufacturer can sell them phones or help buildout/maintain their NW infrastructure; tech companies that operate in China would have to divest out of China entirely to do business with Jio, etc.
- ramshanker 6y agoI as an Indian whole heartedly would welcome such moves by China. Even more opportunity for domestic manufacturers to UP the game. Jio already proudly claims, No Chinese Equipment on their network.
- econcon 6y agoAs a guy who works in B2B supply business. 80% tool and machinery market is owned by China. We simply can't afford German, US or Taiwan tools/machineries. And if it's gone, big players will not affected by small players will have major problem. Getting manufacturing permission in India is not easy and very resource intensive.
- cvhashim 6y agoThis Chinese/India Cold War has been interesting to follow
- throwaway4good 6y agoWhere is the Indian opposition on this? Are they fully behind Modi's nationalism? There is a raging pandemic. Massive recession. Potential war with China. Internet bans. Crackdown in Kashmir. There has to be some questions?
- obmelvin 6y agoPerhaps, if you feel strongly you could express your own opposition rather than make very vague statements alluding to...I have no idea, to be honest.
- throwaway4good 6y agoI am not from India - so it doesn't matter what I think. I was asking a question. I notice from my own country that the power around the sitting government has been strengthened over the COVID-pandemic and the opposition is very weak. I can only imagine how things would centralise further had my country also been under the threat of war.
- sremani 6y agoDefense and Communications have been Central portfolio since 1950 in India. There is no centralization of power happening, and there is no state that is protesting the current banning of apps.
- powerapple 6y agoThat's rare. Typically you would think bad situations are good cards for oppositions. Pandemic, not standing up strongly against 'enemy', are good cards for playing the nationalism game. Unless the sitting government have handled the situation very well, the opposition will have something to say about it and people would agree with them.
- seshagiric 6y agoModi has nationalist agenda but I doubt this one falls under it. Given the consistent Chinese aggression, I guess any other political party would have done the same.
- totaldude87 6y agoper https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/features/pubg-mobile-india-series-csgo-dota-2-cobx-master-2019-rajdip-gupta-2019622 https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/features/pubg-mobile-india-se... PUBG has an installed base of 50 million in india (atleast), would love to see which other alternatives they jump to .. COD or free fire VPN for a game is intolerable in my experience..
- bazooka_penguin 6y agoTencent has a stake in Activision-blizzard so they may ban CoD later
- searchableguy 6y agoI appreciate the sentiment of having more domestic alternatives and competition but there's an insignificant amount of work here. Indie developers and studios won't start making apps and games for India unless they can sustain themselves. That is hard. I expect bigger companies such as jio to take lion's share and have a default monopoly at this point. > India has emerged as the fastest growing app market in the world with 19 billion apps downloaded in 2019, up from 6.55 billion in 2016, according to data from analytics and market intelligence firm App Annie’s State of Mobile 2020 report published last week. > Indians have spent only $120 million on mobile apps whereas China dominates mobile spending with $48 billion, which is 40% of total revenue generated through mobile apps. > In-app subscriptions contributed to 96% of spend in top non-gaming apps. https://entrackr.com/2020/01/india-is-fastest-growing-market-for-app-downloads-in-world/ https://entrackr.com/2020/01/india-is-fastest-growing-market... Some background: > PM Narendra Modi on Sunday urged startups and entrepreneurs to develop innovative “toys and games, for India and of India” to meet domestic demand and increase its share in the global toy business, estimated at Rs 7 lakh crore. He also called upon people to support indigenously developed apps which could replace the ones currently in vogue and are controlled by foreign companies. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/pm-modi-bats-for-local-toy-industry-urges-people-to-support-desi-apps/articleshow/77841819.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/...
- higerordermap 6y agoChinese apps have always been a security risk. Mostly youth will be annoyed by lack of their favourite time-waster apps, but there are alternatives.
- searchableguy 6y agoMy point was that we need to do more than just a ban. > Chinese apps have always been a security risk I don't disagree. But I find this phrasing a little unclear. National security and broadly speaking security are different. Indian apps and services don't fare well in the latter category. > but there are alternatives. Yes, but why haven't they seen the same growth naturally? The top grossing page is filled with more Indian apps only recently due to the political atmosphere. What happened before? Indian companies and developers have a cultural advantage and market understanding both of which are important for entertainment services to take off such as games. What's the reason behind the lag? Can you give examples of alternatives that were well established before this year? > Mostly youth will be annoyed by lack of their favorite time-waster apps This mentality doesn't help. This is discouraging individuals from experimenting with creative outlets in the country. That would have given us more Indian games opposed to china filling the market. E-sports is a big industry and is only growing. How do you expect anyone to innovate here when they are demonized by culture for taking interest in these games? Surely, the problem is people aren't educated on topics such as addiction and they are considered as taboos.
- jeswin 6y agoWhat I wish India would do is this: force Chinese phone companies to ship stock Android and full source code. They sell hundreds of millions of phones in India and will have to find middle ground, and the outcome will be good for everyone.
- searchableguy 6y agoI expect this to increase prices for chinese phones. It is well known that xiaomi operates on thin margin so they can push their IT services and recoup the cost.
- ffpip 6y ago> IT services Ads in default apps, user data collection and selling the said collected data.
- searchableguy 6y ago> Ads in default apps, user data collection and selling the said collected data. That's almost everyone. Yesterday, I opened a brand new budget samsung phone. Despite not logging in anything and declining every box I could, it was automatically filled with invasive apps. It came with made in India sticker. At least with xiaomi, I can flash it with a custom rom and remove the bloatware. Many alternatives lock down their phone. The other phones that I would trust are expensive and out of reach for many Indians such as the pixel (their last device was banned in India).
- ffpip 6y agoSamsung budget phones have unlockable bootloader too? Yes. I do know that. Even I use a custom rom on a redmi phone
- searchableguy 6y ago> Samsung budget phones have unlockable bootloader too? Not consistently and many don't have much support in the ROM market anymore.
- publicola1990 6y agoIt's not exactly clear if the Indian Government has authority enough to do this ban, without presenting concrete evidence, under existing laws. There seems to be no semblance of a due process. As a democratic country India seems to trust its own citizens very less. Banning or not sufficient case has not been made in the public, only a cryptic communique from the Govt is all. What exactly was the threat from PUBG, which is not there in other games?
- d3nj4l 6y agoPUBG was raking in the cash in India. I know quite a few people who snuck in games in breaks, and nearly every delivery guy I saw waiting around restaurants and stores was playing PUBG. PUBG mobile streams on YouTube were massive. IMO this is probably more about the economics, given we have no way of verifying whether or not PUBG was actually stealing any data.
- 2Gkashmiri 6y agosigh. Instead of this immense opportunity to see the rise of open source community where EVERYONE is welcome to contribute and make better software, the government is somehow pushing towards making homegrown ad ridden closed source clones of popular ad ridden closed source Chinese apps. Yucks
- ideals 6y agoSo far in the news (that I consume) I only see countries being agressive towards Chinese software companies. I can't imagine this goes on and continues escalating long before China reacts strongly. What is China's response going to look like? I feel uneasy that their response is going to light the fire even more.
- hamandcheese 6y agoChina already frequently bans non-local apps, don't they? So I'm not sure what recourse they have other than escalating this to a real trade war instead of a digital trade war.
- mc32 6y agoThis is in response to Chinese incursion into disputed territory that has left soldiers on both sides dead. Talking heads in India say these measures are Sun-Tsu like and mesmerized the enemy —Obviously the talking heads are propagandists, but on the other hand this is about the skirmishes on the Himalayas.
- karterk 6y agoYou've the order wrong. This is merely the world reciprocating.
- tinza123 6y agoMy take is that these markets can only take on China when the Chinese software is the significant player in the market, while they are non-essential for the fundamental functionality of a society. On the other hand, there are barely any significant Indian software on the Chinese market, while lots of American software provide non-replicable (at least not immediately) functionality (e.g. MatLab / Microsoft Office / Windows).
- ignoramous 6y agohttps://internetfreedom.in https://internetfreedom.in is doing important work in challenging the Indian government's surveillance and censorship apparatus. If you're passionate about this, consider donating to them and/or participating in the conversation. They're active, from time to time, on r/India as well. (not affiliated with them in anyway or form, but I do work on anti-censorship tech).
- newyankee 6y agoIf you visit r/india do visit r/indiadiscussion as well to see how r/india bans anyone that does not go against their views. It is the most censored subreddit i have ever seen and likely a battleground of information warfare. I would just suggest third party persons reading both this and above post to visit and analyze it for themselves.
- actuator 6y agoYeah, as far as country subs go that is one of the most toxic ones. I tried to use it for some travel advice but what I noticed was just sheer negativity and an echo chamber where any contrarian opinion is suppressed. I wonder if the irony of doing this and then complaining about suppression of dissent by the current establishment is lost on them.
- ffpip 6y agor/Chodi wala ho kya? I've always heard they ban people. Never seen any proof. They ban people that abuse directly at a user I think. Or do personal promotion/spam.
- newyankee 6y agoWhich is why i linked to r/indiadiscussion so that you can get proof.
- ra7 6y ago> https://internetfreedom.in https://internetfreedom.in is doing important work in challenging the Indian government's surveillance and censorship apparatus. > They're active, from time to time, on r/India as well. I'm all for challenging government surveillance and censorship. But the irony here is laughable given r/India's propensity to hand out bans like chocolates for anyone not subscribing to the groupthink.
- actuator 6y agoI think this might be related to the Tibetan origin special forces soldier of Indian Army being killed in some recent altercation with PRC on their northern border.[1] I do think India is going on a slippery slope now. With Tiktok, one can even make a case of it being used to manipulate sentiments and being used for propoganda, but that argument can hardly be made for a game like PubG. It also brings into question whether the ruling government can disrupt a business on its whim of the day. Also, as far as I understand India is far more dependent economically on trade with China then China is on India. Do they really want to start a trade war with China? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/01/indian-special-forces-soldier-killed-in-skirmish-with-chinese-troops https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/01/indian-special...
- zolosa 6y agoThey have already started the trade war.
- actuator 6y agoHas PRC also started it? It would be interesting if they go after critical components like semiconductors, pharmaceuticals, machinery etc.
- Aperocky 6y agoWhy would PRC start a trade war with anybody when they're all largely customers. China barely imports anything from India so there's not even a place to start.
- actuator 6y agoNot import restrictions, more like export restrictions, just to make the other suffer. Wiki infobox suggests that they just have 3% exports to India, they can choose to take that hit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China
- wtmt 6y agoOne thing I find amusing in this saga that's been playing out since the last few months is TikTok's reaction to being banned. When it was banned in India a couple of months ago, it didn't file any lawsuits claiming that it's not a threat to national security (though it has rejected such claims in the past). But when the U.S. announced a ban last month, TikTok sued the U.S. government "on the grounds that it was enacted without evidence and without any due process." [1] I wonder what action these companies will take with this ban or what leverage China may try to use to de-escalate the situation. [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/24/tiktok-sues-the-u-s-government-over-its-forthcoming-ban/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/24/tiktok-sues-the-u-s-govern...
- yorwba 6y agoAre there any laws in India that would allow a banned company to sue the government?
- fellellor 6y agoThere are. Tiktok was banned in India on an earlier occasion because some women’s groups, or a ruling party politician, I fail to remember which, had claimed the app was morally corrupting the youth or some such thing. This ban was overturned once the company filed a case in the courts. IIRC, one of the arguments the defence successfully used was the ban would result in large job losses within the company. We are obviously way past any such argument now.
- throwaway4good 6y agoMaybe it thinks such a lawsuit has a chance in the US but not in India.
- ubermon 6y agoI think two important factors in play here, one is like what others said about better trust on the legal system in US to be relatively more independent; second I guess is just US market is too lucrative and significant to just let go.
- econcon 6y ago
- ramshanker 6y agoChina bans stuff from all over the world, they are just starting to get taste of their own game. ;)
- j45 6y agoWhy does this feel like a movie where there's a possibility of a digital cold war?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pagan42 6y agoThe Chinese government mandates that every app written in China must track and trace it's users. This applies to apps running outside China but owned by Chinese companies. 1+ or Xiaomi or Huawei, they can't really do anything about it. They have to track users to be not banned.
- turnersr 6y agoDo you have a reference for this? Would love to see how this is written down and enforced.
- apta 6y agoIt's surprising to see people in the US defend tiktok without realizing what's actually going on behind the scenes. Every company that does business in China, especially if hugely successful, will have the government step in to intervene and spy.
- tinza123 6y agoHeresay is always popular I guess. Unless you have proof.
- anniefrost 6y agoYou can also changed the Chinese to American, China to US, Xiaomi/Huawei to Apple/Android and it's all the same context.
- hal78 6y agoCan anyone tell me how a country is able to block these apps and sites? What is the hardware required? What's the process to do so. Any reference to existing articles would be amazing.
- throwaway4good 6y agoI believe most of this stuff is asking Google and Apple to remove the apps in questions from their Indian app stores.
- hal78 6y agoSo its just about the Indian Gov sending an email to Google and Apple. Didn't know its was this super easy once the country decides regardless of any knowledge about how this is actually done.
- throwaway4good 6y agoOne of the many advantages of a centralised app store is just how easy you can support dictatorships and populist politicians ...
- hbosch 6y agoI think app stores across mobile OSes maintain region specific marketplaces. Developer accounts are also able to be localized. I assume it is trivial for, say, Google to block all apps from Chinese developers on the Play Store for any customer localized to India.
- fito 6y agoPure fearmongering to carry favor with polarized followers of the party, not unlike what Trump does.
- known 6y agoXi Jinping must laughing be at this response from Modi regime in India;
- ReyanNerway 6y ago15days