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Police-issued "courtesy cards" help friends and family out of minor infractions

608 points by danso 6y ago

dellcybpwr 6y ago
>he knew it was risky—especially because the borrowed car he was driving didn’t have a license plate Oh, come on! I stopped reading here because I have zero sympathy for someone who does something as stupid as that.
- taneq 6y ago
  Keep reading because it's way worse and in the other direction to what you were thinking.
taneq 6y ago
I couldn't believe it when I found out that these are a real, actual thing. I don't see how anyone in the US can cast stones at any other nation for corrupt police accepting bribes when you can largely get carte blanche just for being 'in the club' there.
- wjp3 6y ago
  While I think this practice is bad and should end, it's not the same. Not everyone has these cards, whereas anyone can bribe.
  - d3ntb3ev1l 6y ago
    If Cops accept cards through an organized and supported system, seems to indicate they would take bribes just as easily.
    - eli 6y ago
      The cards are bribes. They have a cash value. You can earn them in exchange for "small business favors and deals" extended to officers.
      - kelnos 6y ago
        I think the difference is in the incentive to stop someone in the moment. In places where cash bribes are common, police will pull people over -- even if they've done nothing wrong -- in order to solicit a bribe. That sort of thing isn't possible with the "courtesy cards", so police stops are more likely to be for legitimate reasons (or at least no more or less legitimate than in an ideal system), but people who shouldn't get away with things often will.
  - floss_silicate 6y ago
    So this is... actually worse?
  - zen_of_prog 6y ago
    Not anyone, only those who have money or connections
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    Anyone can buy a FOP decal though, and as far as I'm concerned, an FOP Decal accomplishes the same thing in practice. I mean, its not the same as bribery. But its the kind of thing that creates the mindset of people like Rittenhouse (Kenosha Shooter). Showing off a "pro-police" political affiliation (be it a FOP sticker or a PBA card) makes the cops go easy on you for minor infractions. The problem happens when people who are "pro-police" start showing up at protests, staying past a 8pm curfew, and then shoots three people in self-defense (allegedly). On the one hand: the Sheriff of Kenosha refused to deputize these people and had the foresight to see what issues the behavior would cause. On the other hand: there's a low-level expectation "friends with benefits" with Police culture. If you're a friend of the police, the police reciprocate that friendship back to you. And one can argue that things are unfair in that regards. (Ex: failure to enforce the curfew on Rittenhouse) ---------- With that being said: I've been to countries with explicit bribery. The American way is better. Period. There's no comparison between this behavior and bribery. But there seems to be an unfairness even in the American way, which is discussed in the core article and exemplified in Kenosha (and IMO: the Kenosha shooter is just the highest-profile example of this debate).
    - Cederfjard 6y ago
      >On the one hand: the Sheriff of Kenosha refused to deputize these people I’m not sure I understand why this is even mentioned - it seems like you’re giving him credit for it, but why on God’s green Earth would he have done that? That would’ve been crazy, right? >With that being said: I've been to countries with explicit bribery. The American way is better. Period. I’ve been to (and lived in) countries where there’s pretty much neither - surely that’s where the bar should be?
      - dragontamer 6y ago
        > I’ve been to (and lived in) countries where there’s pretty much neither - surely that’s where the bar should be? Well, if the question is "Is this better than bribery", I can say without a doubt that its better than bribery. When EVERY traffic ticket is really a request from the local officer to shake you down for money (you may have not been speeding. Doesn't matter, the local cop wants his breakfast or whatever and knows that bribes are widespread. They stop you for a ticket, which is really a request for a bribe). There's simply no comparison. > surely that’s where the bar should be? Well yeah. But the people I was responding to was comparing the behavior to bribery. And bribery is what I have experience with. You really, really don't want to live with a bribery culture. In this case, you're declaring friendship with the cops (through the use of an FOP sticker or PBA card, or whatever the local police union is). And that's where you get exceptional behavior. Yeah, the USA has civil asset forfeiture, but given the red tape behind that, its still a step up from bribery. ----------- > I’m not sure I understand why this is even mentioned - it seems like you’re giving him credit for it, but why on God’s green Earth would he have done that? That would’ve been crazy, right? https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/07/01/clay-county-sheriff-says-hersquoll-deputize-every-gun-owner-if-deputies-canrsquot-handle-protesters/41714161/ https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/07/01/cla... Its not crazy in America. These things come down to the local sheriff's decision. I think people underestimate the power of the Sheriff in many cases. I bring it up because Sheriff of Kenosha seems like a reasonable person, compared to other Sheriffs across the country. On the one hand, the Sheriff of Kenosha is responsible for the actions of his own officers (and in this case: responsible for the failure of his officers to arrest Rittenhouse for violating curfew). On the other hand, the Sheriff of Kenosha cannot fight the "greater police culture" that's across America. The expectation for pro-police people to be treated with leniency is endemic in virtually every place I've been to in America (again: FOP decals or PBA cards): along with "Police Bill of Rights" (special protections to officers that normal people don't get), and so forth.
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    I'm not sure that is in the "better" column. At least anyone with access to some cash can pass a bribe. Here we are making it a more exclusive to those who hang in the right circles. That to me is more corrupt. Even the signal it is sending stinks. The law should apply even to other cops (on and off duty but that is another story) equally as any other citizen. If just being friends with a cop gets you some special entitlement then what does being a cop mean, near total immunity?
    - jdmichal 6y ago
      > If just being friends with a cop gets you some special entitlement then what does being a cop mean, near total immunity? That's been more or less the case, yes. That and the systemic racism exhibited while they get this near-total immunity is a large driver behind the recent protests.
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    wut
  - bbotond 6y ago
    So in a way, it's less democratic than bribing :)
    - kelnos 6y ago
      Pretty sure "having enough money for a bribe" is the opposite of democratic.
      - taneq 6y ago
        Pretty sure "only have to obey the law if you're not chummy with the cops" is the opposite of democratic.
        kelnos 6y ago
        Not sure where you're reading that I said it wasn't; I completely agree with you. But if my choices are living in a society where some people evade punishment by being buddies with the cops, or a society where cops routinely stop people for no reason other than a shakedown for a bribe, I'd pick the first option every time. The original comment bizarrely asserted that bribery is more democratic than the cop-buddy system; that's what I was responding to. I'd of course prefer a third choice where neither of these things happen.
  - efdee 6y ago
    It's not the same. It's much, much worse. This is sanctioned, happy-few bribery.
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    That only makes it worse, surely?
  - kelnos 6y ago
    Anyone can bribe... if they have the money to do so. Which certainly puts many groups at a disadvantage. Regardless, the police officer doesn't benefit directly from being shown a "courtesy card", so it's not like a cop is going to pull someone over just for the hope of getting shown one of these cards. But in countries where police bribery is prevalent, police will often stop people who are doing nothing wrong, simply because they want a bribe. So I agree that these two practices aren't the same, but not for the reason you state. Both practices are awful and disadvantage people who are unable to participate (don't have police friends, can't afford a bribe), but the "courtesy card" garbage at least doesn't create a police-citizen extortion situation.
- koolba 6y ago
  There’s a huge difference between signaling a prior relationship with law enforcement by presenting a PBA card and outright bribing the responding officer.
  - afandian 6y ago
    They are different, but both forms of corruption.
  - AlexandrB 6y ago
    What's the difference besides how the special permission to break the law is obtained? It's still corruption. The article shows you can buy these cards on eBay for <$100.
    - koolba 6y ago
      > What's the difference besides how the special permission to break the law is obtained? Outright bribes can be demanded on the spot for infractions that’s don’t exist. They incentivize stopping more people to demand them. They directly benefit the responding officer and can become a core part of their income. Once that happens you’re really screwed as the only people willing to become cops are dirty cops. > It's still corruption. I didn’t say it’s a good practice. But just because it’s bad does not mean it’s worse than living with a “police tax” every time you’re stopped. > The article shows you can buy these cards on eBay for <$100. That’s be pointless and is for suckers. The cop is supposed to contact the source to verify the relationship.
      - jakelazaroff 6y ago
        From the article: > Mike works in an industry that regularly puts him into contact with police officers, which gives him the opportunity to form personal, trusting relationships with them. As such, he said, he frequently receives PBA cards as a thank-you for extending cops small business favors and deals; currently, he estimates that he has somewhere between 10 and 12 unexpired courtesy cards in his possession. That is literally a bribe.
- mNovak 6y ago
  I think the argument concerns how commonplace bribery is. This exists, but is relatively small in scope. And no, I don't agree with the "universal bribery is democratic" argument, because the end goal is to arrive at 0 bribery.
- thinkharderdev 6y ago
  I think the counter argument would be that the issue with police bribery is not so much that some people are able to get out of minor citations (it's not like these cards will get you out of murder charge or anything) but rather the issue of corrupt police shaking people down for bribes.
Kednicma 6y ago
The equivalent in our industry is when somebody gets locked out of a Google/Apple/etc. multi-service account, has no backup or rescue access, but is put in touch with a friend of a friend who happens to work at the vendor. It's systemic favoritism.
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  I wish people would keep these kinds of situations in mind when discussing whether or not a certain industry is a "meritocracy".
  - refurb 6y ago
    The issue people have with “meritocracy” is because they can only think in black and white, no grays. Society is made up of humans and humans do unfair things. That doesn’t mean that tech companies aren’t generally meritocracies.
  - aaron695 6y ago
    I have no idea what you are saying? Having friends in an industry is hard work, so it a meritocracy, it is well earned to have made contacts that will help you. In this article it's perhaps family, but a family that supports their childrens career in a blue collar job like policing, in a meritocracy, also deserve the reward. In policing perhaps it's illegal or should be illegal. But it's still a meritocracy.
- Minor49er 6y ago
  I don't think this is systemic at all. If companies found out that this was going on in their organizations, most of them would shut the practice down pretty quickly and almost certainly fire anyone involved. Otherwise, those companies could face some pretty heavy lawsuits and fines.
  - jmull 6y ago
    Systemic doesn’t necessarily mean official. But semantics aside, I think this often works without violating company policies. It’s more about having a connection to get the attention of someone who has authority to override or initiate a friendly appeal of some prior judgement call.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
The fundamental issue here is that being a normal person puts you on the wrong side of the law and/or the punishments for being on the wrong side of the law are too severe.
- TempLogsForOne 6y ago
  That is just a symptom of the problem as the tyrannical administrative bureaucratic police state expands at exponential rates, to cheers and demands for ever more control by mommy and daddy government. But to your point, you are correct, the only people left on the wrong side of the law are law abiding productive people who do not have personal connections to law enforcement. Ever other group gets treated with a light touch and has excuses made for them and criminals are now getting off the hook left and right, while the anarcho-tyrannical administrative state increases it's abuses of regular productive and peaceful people. It's either by design, out of desperation, or due to incompetence; but it will not end well for any of us, regardless.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    I find it unsurprising but disheartening that this was flagged. The entire administrative bureaucracy is in on this racket and it's unfair to pick in the police alone for it. In my state it's not just the police that peddle influence like this. Many state agencies have little identifiers that range from IDs to bumper stickers that they give to their employees with the unspoken purpose of signaling "don't screw me, I work for your team". The most coveted are the court system ones because no matter what agency is trying to screw you none of them want to piss off people who work for the courts. My state also has all sorts of ways to wave fines and whatnot for economic hardship reasons (which I fully support). This creates effectively three classes of people, those who are part of the in-group and treated decently by government. Those who have money and are preyed upon by government. And those who don't have money and are ignored by government unless they are committing serious (i.e. violent) crime because the government gains nothing by cracking down on them. Why can't the government just treat everyone like the former or the latter or, even better, repeal all the stupid laws that have wildly low compliance rates?
kop316 6y ago
I've also noticed in a lot of states that cars have the "fraternal order of police" sticker, and it is affixed right on their licence plate. I suspect its for a similar reason, that either if you get your plate's picture taken or local police can see that right away.
- nickthegreek 6y ago
  yep, its a signal to officers that you went out of your way to donate extra money to the police force so that they are more forgiving as they approach your car or just don't pull you over to begin with.
  - eplanit 6y ago
    I think that today a Trump 2020 bumper sticker would have the same effect.
    - nickthegreek 6y ago
      I think the american thin blue line flag is more direct. https://www.amazon.com/Matter-Sticker-Support-Enforcement-Officers/dp/B07CCLSPB5 https://www.amazon.com/Matter-Sticker-Support-Enforcement-Of...
    - joshstrange 6y ago
      There is a chilling effect in the other direction as well. I'm not too keen on decorating my car to support various things I do support (candidate/BLM/etc) because I know the cops might treat me worse with that on my car... fun times.
      - illirik 6y ago
        I just have two Seattle Mariners bumper stickers on my truck; haven't been pulled over since putting em on, so they must think I have enough misery as it is! /s I think the real issue is that it has been decided somehow that it is our fault for being policed and experiencing the frequent resulting injustices. A police officer can pull you over, stop you walking down the street, etc. etc. and fine you, jail you, or brutalize you at will, and in all but the most egregious cases (that also must become a cause celebre), they can just do it again tomorrow. There's always some justification, no matter how flimsy! That's not to say this violence is evenly distributed among the population. POC, the poor and working class, those who work odd hours and have to drive at 3 AM etc. certainly have a much, much, much harder time than e.g. the median HN commenter. But the answer to the question "What's stopping a given police officer from e.g. breaking my arm while pulling me out of my vehicle?" is much less "they will suffer consequences if they do" and much more "they haven't decided it's what they want to do today"
helsinkiandrew 6y ago
> he frequently receives PBA cards as a thank-you for extending cops small business favors and deals This is corruption. I've never understood how things like this can happen in the US - why is this tolerated? If this happened in the UK I'm fairly sure it would be raised in the press, then parliament and then the Home Secretary (in charge of policing) would be forced to make a statement and likely do something about it.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  1.Plenty of Americans view enforcing traffic laws are nothing more than "a greedy gubbermint cash grab." For those participating, they view it as using corruption to avoid corruption. 2. You can't easily do something about it other than taking away police discretion. Unlike with a traditional bribe, where something is exchanged for something, you can't demonstrate that the person got off for the card compared to the officer just deciding to give them a break.
  - bananaface 6y ago
    Can't you just ban the cards?
    - pnutjam 6y ago
      Mostly they are "secret". Edit: didn't read the article, but I still think they fly under the radar for the vast majority of people and they should absolutely be a career ender for Police to hand out. Sounds like low fruit for cleaning up America.
    - cool_dude85 6y ago
      Sure, we'll just have the police arrest the police officers who give them out.
      - bananaface 6y ago
        Silly response. If the cards were illegal people would absolutely be hesitant to flash them to a random cop.
spacedcowboy 6y ago
What the actual fuck ? From an outside-the-US perspective, the stack of “Things I’d never believe about the USA, please, Alex” is just getting higher and higher. How is it legal to have preferential treatment, no matter under what circumstances, for ‘friends of the police’? Is Lady Liberty not famously blind while balancing the scales of justice ? Does the maxim “justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done” somehow not apply in the USA ? Over the last few years, it seems to me the rock that used to be the USA has been overturned, and all the slimy creepy little nasties are being exposed to the harsh light of day. What happens in a few months is going to be critical to the soul of your nation. Get it right, I doubt you’ll recover if you don’t.
- derwiki 6y ago
  I assure you, “friend of the police” cards have been going on for more than a few years. And from what my military friends tell me, handing a cop your military ID tends to work just as well.
  - geerlingguy 6y ago
    In some communities other memberships can also hold sway. I remember one person mentioning some sort of scouting membership getting him out of a traffic stop.
    - derwiki 6y ago
      I was told an Eagle Scout card might have the same effect, but it seemed.. un-Eagly to try.
    - c22 6y ago
      I got out of a speeding ticket once because the officer was into the classic car I was driving.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      The officer puts you in a category within seconds of meeting you - citizen, perp or 'blue line'. Their response depends upon this judgement call. My son the disable vet could not seem to get a ticket. He occasionally speeds, not egregiously, but the Fort Benning parking sticker on his truck window and the military ID in his wallet made a difference in the attitude of the officer.
merricksb 6y ago
If curious, see this discussion about the topic from early 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890
gwbas1c 6y ago
You don't need a physical card. A friend of mine who used to get into trouble all the time when he was a teenager got away with a ton of stuff. His father was a chief or something, so every local cop just knew who he was. You don't want to arrest your boss's son.
- spideymans 6y ago
  Heck, if you're wealthy enough, and get pulled over drunk, tell then you're friends with someone at the department. The cop will make a few phone calls, and boom, you get chauffeured home by the cops for free.
- pavon 6y ago
  Yeah, these cards are basically a way of extending behavior that has always occurred in small departments to a larger force where the police can't possibly know everyone they are "supposed" to give favors to.
qntty 6y ago
The first step to being an authoritarian is separating the in-group from the out-group so you can deal out harsh punishment to one and be forgiving to the other.
EGreg 6y ago
Hate the game, not the player. This is definitely corruption. BUT, at least, it is supposed to be for minor infractions. Unlike meter maids, police officers should be given leeway to let people go. It’s the mandatory minimums and fines you should worry about... cops doing revenue generation for the city. And when their department doesn’t get enough from taxes and tickets, police departments across the country turn to civil forfeiture. Ideally, the officers should act as if everyone has these cards. https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/local/20100607_Police_say_don_t_confuse_courtesy_cards_with_a_free_pass.html https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/local/20100607_Police_s...
- nicoburns 6y ago
  > Ideally, the officers should act as if everyone has these cards. Totally agree with this. I think part of the reason they are in issue is it reduces the political pressure on this happening if some people can get this treatment anyway.
nip180 6y ago
I find unequal enforcement of the law to be one is it’s worst aspects. There is not only officer discretion, but there is also discretion several places in the judicial system and privilege in being able to hire better legal council. Some neighborhoods are policed more heavily than others. Some groups of people are targeted more heavily than others. Some city police departments enforce state/federal laws unevenly. There should be one law for everyone, and if two random people with similar criminal histories break the same law in different places we should expect their outcomes and sentencing to be very similar. Right now this is far from the case.
- darkarmani 6y ago
  I agree, but at the same time the alternative is zero tolerance. Maybe the big problem is not the discretion, but that it isn't recorded? For example, i think it is complete corruption that LEOs and their families generally get "professional courtesy". I've heard the argument that it is a perk of the job. I disagree, but if you accept that argument, I would say: let the judge and courts handle the forgiveness of the offense and have it recorded in documents. Make it an official procedure and it will not look like corruption.
  - nip180 6y ago
    > I agree, but at the same time the alternative is zero tolerance. I think it’s unfair to use term zero tolerance to describe equal enforcement. Zero tolerance is a specific sentencing pattern which uses harsh punishments for crimes. Equal enforcement is about making sure all groups have the same relationship with the law. If the laws on the books are overly harsh once enforced than we should change those laws.
    - GurnBlandston 6y ago
      The public would be better served by reducing the number of things that are illegal to only those things that deserve to be enforced with 'zero tolerance'.
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specialp 6y ago
This is real at least in the NY area. NY law gives officers "discretion" in issuing violations (not crimes). That doesn't have a limit. So being friends with a fellow PO is technically not an illegal reason to not issue a violation. I agree that it is not fair. Generally though if you do something like drive 30 over the limit, they aren't going to let you off with a card. But a non connected person can get pulled over for something minor and get every ticket they can. This snowballs for poor people that then have more fines on top of fines.
mattlondon 6y ago
There used to be something similar in the UK IIRC - the traffic police nicknamed themselves "black rats". If you had a sticker of the black rat mascot/logo on the back of your car then you were either a traffic officer, or someone close to them (wife/husband/etc) and a wink and a nod an you were on your way. I don't think it was a deliberate "get out of jail" move - just more of a "Oh you have a sticker for my unit's mascot on your car!" recognition type thing. I think it kinda stopped when they started giving away the stickers on "enthusiast" car/motorbike magazines etc
- jopsen 6y ago
  Lol, I suppose as the cards carries no real legitimacy, it's not illegal to fake them. That said, being stopped by cop who notices that it's fake probably isn't a good idea :)
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  Are "KMA 367" plate holders still a thing in Los Angeles? https://www.straightdope.com/21341883/in-los-angeles-why-do-so-many-license-plate-holders-say-kma367 https://www.straightdope.com/21341883/in-los-angeles-why-do-...
jopsen 6y ago
The mere appearance of corruption in police is enough of a problem. Even in minor cases. Debating whether this is bribery or nepotism is pointless, because the appearance this gives should be plenty to fire officers who hand out such cards. Conveniently, they supposedly write their name on the cards they hand out :)
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kemayo 6y ago
I once got pulled over for speeding in the middle of Kansas. The cop who was giving me my ticket told me that they had a program for avoiding having the ticket reported so your insurance rates won't rise. So I went along with it, and mailed the cost of the ticket plus a hundred dollars to that city's police department, care of the "sheriff's benevolent association" (or similar -- it's been a decade, the name is fuzzy to me). ...it remains one of the more blatantly shady-feeling things I remember encountering in the US.
- bathtub365 6y ago
  I'd rather give my money to an insurance company than corrupt cops.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    I'd pick a lawyer over either. At least he has to make a living delivering results. The other two have their existence perpetuated by law.
    - ksm1717 6y ago
      I mean you could argue that LAWyers literally exist because of law. Or at least perpetuated by the other two options which are perpetuated by law.
      - Yetanfou 6y ago
        Doesn't that work the other way around as well, as in LAWs come to life or stay in place because of LAWyers? Both due to the rather large percentage of lawyers who end up in politics as well as due to lawyers using their powers of persuasion - monetary or otherwise - to influence law makers?
    - kelnos 6y ago
      The prevalence and prestige of the law profession only started (in the US) in the late 1800s because of the rise of complicated, business-friendly contract law that made highly-trained lawyers a necessity for getting things done. The laws were used primarily to enforce burdensome contracts against workers and individuals, and protect businesses from holding up their end of the bargain. I'd say that period was likely the birth of the American tendency toward litigiousness. The legal profession exists and is so lucrative specifically because of the shape of government and the law.
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
The racial connection here is quite a stretch and sounds like more race baiting. It has nothing to do with that. Knicks players have them. Yankees have them.
dbg31415 6y ago
My neighbor in Austin is a lawyer for the police union. He would hand these cards out to everyone in the cul-de-sac along with some booze for Christmas presents. There's a little "CLEAT" sticker that you can put in your back window too. I put the sticker in the window of one car but not the other. In the car without the sticker... I got pulled over in West Texas visiting relatives, and the cop literally had his gun drawn as he came to my window. Alone on a dark and empty road, guy with a gun on you -- probably the scariest moment of my life. In the car with the sticker, in a similar small town in West Texas (lots of speed traps between Austin and Midland)... as the officer was walking to my car he saw the sticker and his whole body language instantly shifted. He got to my window, "Hope I didn't scare you with the lights, you don't seem like you're from around here. Are you lost? Just trying to be neighborly." I was going 20-ish miles over the speed limit both times. I looked into getting another sticker and it literally only cost me $25. Significantly better treatment from police doesn't cost very much. Anyway, yup corrupt as fuck... but as long as these exist, for a simple $25 donation, might as well have a CLEAT sticker in your window. Also, what really bugs me... Police in Texas are allowed to unionize, but Teachers are not. Oof. Been here almost 20 years now, I love a lot of things about Texas, but some of the politics still suck. PS: Also I keep a Book of the Mormon in my glove compartment, that way if I ever do get pulled over I just casually grab the book when looking for insurance papers. For some reason seems like a lot of cops in Texas are Mormons...
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  Lund, "Bible on the Dash": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S00y75ebq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S00y75ebq8
  - dbg31415 6y ago
    Ha, spot on. When you find a flaw, do you fix the system or game the system?
- 0xcafecafe 6y ago
  Wow. I wonder if there is an equivalent of this sticker for other states.
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smaslennikov 6y ago
Pretty confused why this post got flagged, but I did put together a (strong) personal opinion a while back[^0] that touches on these topics. I didn't publish it because a friend gave me a counter opinion I couldn't find a time to respond to, but I suppose it might as well be public now. [^0]: https://smaslennikov.com/posts/enforcement/ https://smaslennikov.com/posts/enforcement/
cvhashim 6y ago
Why is Vice always flagged on HN?
me_me_me 6y ago
So we are now using monopoly rules to run a country? A literal get-out-of-jail-free card!
- dafoex 6y ago
  There's literally a monopoly "go" tile on it. Contrast this with the UK where the coppers like to get "go to jail" t shirts.
excalibur 6y ago
> The cards embody everything wrong with modern policing. That's a pretty broad claim. The cards aren't even big enough to LIST everything wrong with modern policing.
- dafoex 6y ago
  Its a pretty broad claim because a lot of countries have a different idea to america on what modern policing means.
- deleted 6y ago
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- thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago
  The cards represent corruption, self-interest, and selective enforcement of the law. I think a lot of problems would be solved or help accountable for if those issues were resolved.
- kelnos 6y ago
  I think it's a pretty reasonable claim. The cards illustrate the idea that the law is applied unequally, and at the whim of the police officer... which I believe is the root of much of the problems with US policing.
- notJim 6y ago
  > be an expression of or give a tangible or visible form to (an idea, quality, or feeling) The cards "are an expression of" everything wrong with modern policing. Not sure if you are just being pedantic, but this seems to fit.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Seems sketchy. But even the TSA has a 'safe list' of folks who can skip the line - is this morally different? Law enforcement identifies folks who are not habitual offenders, who support law enforcement and who if they abuse the privilege will hear about it from a cop/friend, and give them a card. Not sounding like such a terrible thing to me. Remember, nobody is getting away with murder here. <edit: elaborate>
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
djmobley 6y ago
Sounds like the CHP 11-99 Foundation license plate frame, which could (allegedly) get you out of speeding tickets [0] [0] https://priceonomics.com/can-you-buy-a-license-to-speed/ https://priceonomics.com/can-you-buy-a-license-to-speed/
rsynnott 6y ago
This can't _possibly_ be legal, surely? Wtf.
- smcl 6y ago
  The police in the US are not particularly bothered by things like laws or human rights For now at least
- moogly 6y ago
  Only (or is it 'not even'?) the Police police the Police.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
theptip 6y ago
Presumably this sort of thing will become harder to maintain as bodycams become more prevalent. It seems plausible that anti-corruption NGOs could request the bodycam footage (anonymized, I suppose) under public records disclosure laws. (e.g. see https://www.rcfp.org/bodycam-video-access/ https://www.rcfp.org/bodycam-video-access/, though I'd be really interested in what others think about the likely legal interpretations of disclosure requirements.) Yet another reason to push for more bodycams, and auditability/disclosure of that footage; sunlight is often the best disinfectant.
- sbilstein 6y ago
  Given that we have lots of body cam footage of police brutality now yet haven’t significantly moved the needle on reducing incidences, I’m not hopeful that will make a difference. Maybe incentives for snitching on fellow police would work better?
- djaque 6y ago
  The problem right now is that camera footage is handled by the police departments. Any oversight requires the police to operate in good faith. Thinking back to how many news reports I've seen where the footage was "lost" or "the cameras were not switched on" I don't have any trust in that type of system. We really need third party monitoring.
  - BitwiseFool 6y ago
    Plus, think of the thousands of hours of footage that is regularly collected. Without some incident or reason to inspect the video, most of the incidents would go undetected.
woodruffw 6y ago
For the curious: a more regional[1] form of this petty corruption in the NYC area is placard abuse[2]. It's pretty common to see cars with these parked in front of hydrants, in bike lanes, etc, being completely ignored by the police. [1]: As far as I know, being a lifelong New Yorker. [2]: https://twitter.com/placardabuse https://twitter.com/placardabuse
- Xavdidtheshadow 6y ago
  The Houston area PD has an organization called the "100 Club" [0] where you can donate to get a nice sticker. Each year has a different color, so it's easy to show how long you've been a member. [1] Officially they're just to support the LEO orgs, but there's also anecdata in my friend group that having one (or more) makes you more likely to get out of most things with just a warning. [0]: https://the100club.org/about/#what https://the100club.org/about/#what [1]: https://twitter.com/sighborgs/status/1246113527158497282 https://twitter.com/sighborgs/status/1246113527158497282
  - woodruffw 6y ago
    Apropos of nothing: apart from being similar to the placard racket, I wonder how many people who donate to this organization realize that their dollars are being used to buy MRAPs[1], not pay for the educations of the children of dead cops. [1]: https://the100club.org/newsroom/ https://the100club.org/newsroom/
- asdff 6y ago
  There must be something like that in LA as well, as a surprising number of people are driving on the road and parking on the street with no plates at all. Sometimes nice cars, usually with the drug dealer tint level on the windows (slightly darker than celebrity tinted windows).
renewiltord 6y ago
Hahaha, I love it. They literally formalized the old boys' network.
aazaa 6y ago
The recent focus on racial bias in policing has had a negative outcome: to distract attention from the fact that the law is being applied unevenly across the US. Racial bias in police encounters is a symptom, not the disease.
- 86J8oyZv 6y ago
  This is true, but the racial bias is easier to get people to rally behind. And it's gotten people talking more about the non-racial injustices in our justice system, too.
ElijahLynn 6y ago
I know two people who had these in New Jersey. One used to speed all the time and never get a ticket or warnings. Super convenient for them. It was a legit card, a metal one, I saw it. Pretty corrupt there in New Jersey.
stefan_ 6y ago
The big problem in the US is the lack of automated speed enforcement. When you have officers doing traffic enforcement it inevitably turns into a corrupt shit show, and if you're black, you might not even live through it. Although its now 2020, where every 300 gram toy drone will automatically refuse to fly anywhere near an airport. It took 0 drones taking down 0 airplanes to do that. Modern cars can trivially enforce the speed limit, but we have ten thousands of deaths and counting every year and it's not happening.
- donmcronald 6y ago
  A 100% guarantee of getting caught would significantly reduce the number of people speeding. That eliminates something that functions like a regressive tax, so it's never going to happen.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Modern cars can trivially enforce the speed limit Not sure about everywhere, but speed limits are first glance limits in at least some places, where other evidence can prove that a speed above the limit was not "speeding". Speed limits don't know what traffic is doing, they don't know road conditions, they don't know if you have an emergency. They're just a number set by ideally an engineer, or less ideally a party with conflicting interests (revenue). I had to drive someone to an emergency room once. There wasn't time or money for an ambulance. If my car was automatically enforcing speed limits, they might have died. Moreover there are far, far, far fewer no-fly zones than speed limit zones. A no-fly zone is a fairly simple polygon -- are you inside or outside. Every street has its own speed limit, which can vary from 5mph to 80mph in the US, and traffic on some freeways is consistently higher than 80. Some highways have dynamic speed limits, e.g. 65 at night and 55 during rush hour. School zones and pedestrian crossings have limits based on whether someone has switched on a light, or times of day, or even just the presence of children. So no, you cannot have, and do not want, automated in-vehicle enforcement of speed limits.
  - stefan_ 6y ago
    No, the fact that US people can't call an ambulance for risk of bankruptcy is not a good reason to allow cars to accelerate to 120 mph in cities. That's the point here: you can add cities as simple convex polys and you are already 80% of the way there. Drones don't need to listen to air traffic either.
anm89 6y ago
The simplest way to fix a huge amount of problems that exist in the USA would be to start holding the police accountable for their actions. This is police corruption, an especially harmful category of corruption that undermindes our entire legal system. It should be 5 years minimum in federal prison. Police should recieve drastically stronger charges and sentences when they violate the law, not the other way around. If someone above was found to have known about it and didn't report it should be 2x. You show me a problem in modern america (maybe except healthcare) and I bet I could argue this one policy would fix it in one roundabout way or another. It won't happen for a bunch of structural reasons unless a major party took it up as a major part of their platform but it would work. Come to think of it, this is one of the very few things one of the major parties could do to get me to vote for them.
- secabeen 6y ago
  And to be clear, to to common refrain "well, if cops were going to be held responsible for their actions, they wouldn't put their lives at risk, they've be extra conservative!", my answer to you is: "fine, we don't want those people to be cops anyways."
  - kaesar14 6y ago
    And if it really is that much more dangerous and risky to be a cop because of this, pay them more! People put their health on the line to be GARBAGEMEN for cryin' out loud! They do it because the pay is good, and the benefits are solid. Make the cops earn the inordinate salaries they pull home.
    - 34679 6y ago
      According to multiple "Most Dangerous Jobs" lists, being a garbage collector is far more dangerous than being a police officer.
    - Karunamon 6y ago
      Police officer salary isn't that great from the data I've been able to find. Nationwide average is 48K/yr. 57k/yr in NYC, 55k/yr in LA. This is roughly the same range as a public school teacher, slightly less.
SMAAART 6y ago
Also available on eBay (of course) https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=PBA+cards+&_sacat=0 https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m...
cma 6y ago
Sounds like China's social credit system but maybe worse in some ways.
bitwize 6y ago
Literal get out of jail free cards. JHC.
andrewxdiamond 6y ago
In Ohio it’s is common to see license plates with police badges or stickers on them. They are handed out to friends and family and deter officers from pulling you over.
- skizm 6y ago
  Almost all cops I know are specifically told to take all things that could identify them as cops or friends of cops off their cars, windows, etc. since there is so much targeted violence and crime specifically directed against police. And this is in relatively safe NJ suburban areas. Tires on their personal cars get slashed all the time due to having a badge in a window or similar.
  - asdff 6y ago
    People drive pickup trucks with a 6' trump flag and a 6' thin blue line flag mounted to each side of the bed in the midwest. different animal than the east coast.
donohoe 6y ago
I had one of these. I was given it not having slightest idea what it was for (was only in the NYC/US about two years at that point). I was told its meaning a couple of years later when I found it again during a move. I've thrown it out. While I appreciate the gesture from the person who gave it to me, I was repelled by what it represented in terms of how privilege and the police system work.
Grimm1 6y ago
This has been a common thing forever. Whether it's right is very much and should be up for discussion but I'm surprised at how many people seem to be learning this for the first time. Same thing worked with the small silver shields you could give out. I don't really agree with how policing is done in the US and it has started more than one fight with my long retired former police father but as a matter of practicality I still carry his silver shield with me. He hasn't been an officer since I was 5 or so but even in high school the active police families and the families with ada's or prosecutors all had PBA cards and would give them out.
- snapetom 6y ago
  Very much been around forever. The PBA cards are common in NY and NJ, where cops are basically a legalized mafia. In areas where PBA cards are not the norm, a simple business card with the officer's signature plays the same role. "If there's a problem, you can check with my friend Officer so and so. Here's his card."
yadco 6y ago
Can't find any evidence in this article.
xphilter 6y ago
Wait till y’all learn about “fraternal order of police” fundraisers and car stickers identifying donors, allowing “discretion” to be used by the cop to let the violation go.
caiobegotti 6y ago
So... "protection" like under the mafia but only if you can afford the state price, so its supporters invariably are high in the food^Wdecision chain. It doesn't seem like a very democratic rule of law.
CarbyAu 6y ago
What I don't get is: - The police need social capital. It helps enormously if they can be take at face value for "just doing their job". And this would help in the minor day-to-day interactions that makes up the majority of their working lives. - Not only is it blatant corruption, the very existence of such cards harms the whole police forces social relationship! It is a "associate infraction with a cop!" card! If I were a true friend of the police, I would: - let them do their job fairly (while not letting them get away with unfair) - not try to associate a cop buddy of mine with my poor decisions!
classics2 6y ago
Around here you see a lot of people with plastic stars they give out for “donating” to police organizations screwed onto the rear license plate.
fareesh 6y ago
In the USA legislators and others in government have publicly voiced their support of, contributed to, and organized bail funds for specific groups of people based on their views on particular topics. One Presidential candidate's campaign (through its staffers) has also paid money towards something called the "Minnesota Freedom Fund". Why is there a contribution only to this fund? If you protest animal testing and are arrested for some similar crime, where is your bail fund? In those cases you have to organize the money yourself, people in your government don't organize it for you. Philosophically, government is supposed to serve everyone equally, but depending on the political views of the alleged criminal, or the self-proclaimed cause that they are supporting while performing allegedly illegal acts under the banner of "civil disobedience" or "peaceful protest", there is an availability of bail funds, selective prosecution, and all sorts of other features of the justice system available on a selective basis - i.e. the banner under which the illegality takes place. If the principle of selective/unequal dispensation of justice is wrong, it ought to be criticized irrespective of the form it takes. When it is ignored in some forms but other forms result in outrage, it's difficult not to question the motivations of whoever is amplifying this particular flavor of bias. If it is acceptable for the system to consider banners and offer different features to offenders depending on which banner they are flying when they interact with the system, then this is also acceptable. I personally would prefer a conversation that looks at the problem of selective enforcement across many spheres.
- ijtioerhgser 6y ago
  Or we could just eliminate cash bail, for everyone. It's been eliminated in my state for most crimes, and they are trying it out in other states as well. It's not perfect, but it results in a lot less people in jail because they can't pay, and it hasn't made us any less safe. Otherwise, I don't think you're going to solve the issue of "people only donating bail money to people they like." Because people are going to spend money the way they want.
jrochkind1 6y ago
Last paragraph: “Policing was never meant to be held accountable in the first place, not in a meaningful, substantial way,” Wall said. He cautioned against focusing too much on the injustice of PBA cards. “Be careful that the outrage [doesn't] become directed in too narrow a way. The real outrage should be directed at the nature of policing itself.”
Ice_cream_suit 6y ago
This is a common sort of corruption, worldwide. Here in Australia, my receptionist has got out of a few minor traffic infringements because her husband is a friend of a cop.
PostPlummer 6y ago
30 years ago (quite exact), we drove back after a 48 hour "party" in Berlin (Roger Waters playing "the wall" at the broken down wall). We got stopped at the border (Germany > Holland) and I drove. We where tired, still high and half drunk. When the border patrol asked me (the driver) for papers, it took me a long time to produce them and one of my friends woke up, asked what was going on and pulled out his official "bridge operator" badge. Showed it (before I was even capable to find my driving licence and passport) to the trooper and just said "Hi partner": we where waved through. When I asked what the actual F just had happened, he told me his job made him an "non commissioned officer" and that was all it took for us to be treated as part of the blue family, who go to great lengths to "help each other". Different times, different continent, same rules.
nphd 6y ago
I feel like we're at a crossroads: Hire huge battalions of union dues-paying forever-rookie police behind an iron curtain and arm them to the teeth, or Operate a modernized, transparent, outcomes-based criminal justice system. It would be interesting to understand why so many politicians and police themselves talk about the latter while quietly implementing the former. What's in it for them?
HeavyStorm 6y ago
So "get out of jail free cards" do exist. And here I thought that GTA came up with them. In 1997

608 points by danso 6y ago

>he knew it was risky—especially because the borrowed car he was driving didn’t have a license plate Oh, come on! I stopped reading here because I have zero sympathy for someone who does something as stupid as that.

taneq 6y ago
Keep reading because it's way worse and in the other direction to what you were thinking.

taneq 6y ago

I couldn't believe it when I found out that these are a real, actual thing. I don't see how anyone in the US can cast stones at any other nation for corrupt police accepting bribes when you can largely get carte blanche just for being 'in the club' there.

wjp3 6y ago
While I think this practice is bad and should end, it's not the same. Not everyone has these cards, whereas anyone can bribe.
- d3ntb3ev1l 6y ago
  If Cops accept cards through an organized and supported system, seems to indicate they would take bribes just as easily.
  - eli 6y ago
    The cards are bribes. They have a cash value. You can earn them in exchange for "small business favors and deals" extended to officers.
    - kelnos 6y ago
      I think the difference is in the incentive to stop someone in the moment. In places where cash bribes are common, police will pull people over -- even if they've done nothing wrong -- in order to solicit a bribe. That sort of thing isn't possible with the "courtesy cards", so police stops are more likely to be for legitimate reasons (or at least no more or less legitimate than in an ideal system), but people who shouldn't get away with things often will.
- floss_silicate 6y ago
  So this is... actually worse?
- zen_of_prog 6y ago
  Not anyone, only those who have money or connections
- dragontamer 6y ago
  Anyone can buy a FOP decal though, and as far as I'm concerned, an FOP Decal accomplishes the same thing in practice. I mean, its not the same as bribery. But its the kind of thing that creates the mindset of people like Rittenhouse (Kenosha Shooter). Showing off a "pro-police" political affiliation (be it a FOP sticker or a PBA card) makes the cops go easy on you for minor infractions. The problem happens when people who are "pro-police" start showing up at protests, staying past a 8pm curfew, and then shoots three people in self-defense (allegedly). On the one hand: the Sheriff of Kenosha refused to deputize these people and had the foresight to see what issues the behavior would cause. On the other hand: there's a low-level expectation "friends with benefits" with Police culture. If you're a friend of the police, the police reciprocate that friendship back to you. And one can argue that things are unfair in that regards. (Ex: failure to enforce the curfew on Rittenhouse) ---------- With that being said: I've been to countries with explicit bribery. The American way is better. Period. There's no comparison between this behavior and bribery. But there seems to be an unfairness even in the American way, which is discussed in the core article and exemplified in Kenosha (and IMO: the Kenosha shooter is just the highest-profile example of this debate).
  - Cederfjard 6y ago
    >On the one hand: the Sheriff of Kenosha refused to deputize these people I’m not sure I understand why this is even mentioned - it seems like you’re giving him credit for it, but why on God’s green Earth would he have done that? That would’ve been crazy, right? >With that being said: I've been to countries with explicit bribery. The American way is better. Period. I’ve been to (and lived in) countries where there’s pretty much neither - surely that’s where the bar should be?
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      > I’ve been to (and lived in) countries where there’s pretty much neither - surely that’s where the bar should be? Well, if the question is "Is this better than bribery", I can say without a doubt that its better than bribery. When EVERY traffic ticket is really a request from the local officer to shake you down for money (you may have not been speeding. Doesn't matter, the local cop wants his breakfast or whatever and knows that bribes are widespread. They stop you for a ticket, which is really a request for a bribe). There's simply no comparison. > surely that’s where the bar should be? Well yeah. But the people I was responding to was comparing the behavior to bribery. And bribery is what I have experience with. You really, really don't want to live with a bribery culture. In this case, you're declaring friendship with the cops (through the use of an FOP sticker or PBA card, or whatever the local police union is). And that's where you get exceptional behavior. Yeah, the USA has civil asset forfeiture, but given the red tape behind that, its still a step up from bribery. ----------- > I’m not sure I understand why this is even mentioned - it seems like you’re giving him credit for it, but why on God’s green Earth would he have done that? That would’ve been crazy, right? https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/07/01/clay-county-sheriff-says-hersquoll-deputize-every-gun-owner-if-deputies-canrsquot-handle-protesters/41714161/ https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/07/01/cla... Its not crazy in America. These things come down to the local sheriff's decision. I think people underestimate the power of the Sheriff in many cases. I bring it up because Sheriff of Kenosha seems like a reasonable person, compared to other Sheriffs across the country. On the one hand, the Sheriff of Kenosha is responsible for the actions of his own officers (and in this case: responsible for the failure of his officers to arrest Rittenhouse for violating curfew). On the other hand, the Sheriff of Kenosha cannot fight the "greater police culture" that's across America. The expectation for pro-police people to be treated with leniency is endemic in virtually every place I've been to in America (again: FOP decals or PBA cards): along with "Police Bill of Rights" (special protections to officers that normal people don't get), and so forth.
- VBprogrammer 6y ago
  I'm not sure that is in the "better" column. At least anyone with access to some cash can pass a bribe. Here we are making it a more exclusive to those who hang in the right circles. That to me is more corrupt. Even the signal it is sending stinks. The law should apply even to other cops (on and off duty but that is another story) equally as any other citizen. If just being friends with a cop gets you some special entitlement then what does being a cop mean, near total immunity?
  - jdmichal 6y ago
    > If just being friends with a cop gets you some special entitlement then what does being a cop mean, near total immunity? That's been more or less the case, yes. That and the systemic racism exhibited while they get this near-total immunity is a large driver behind the recent protests.
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  wut
- bbotond 6y ago
  So in a way, it's less democratic than bribing :)
  - kelnos 6y ago
    Pretty sure "having enough money for a bribe" is the opposite of democratic.
    - taneq 6y ago
      Pretty sure "only have to obey the law if you're not chummy with the cops" is the opposite of democratic.
      - kelnos 6y ago
        Not sure where you're reading that I said it wasn't; I completely agree with you. But if my choices are living in a society where some people evade punishment by being buddies with the cops, or a society where cops routinely stop people for no reason other than a shakedown for a bribe, I'd pick the first option every time. The original comment bizarrely asserted that bribery is more democratic than the cop-buddy system; that's what I was responding to. I'd of course prefer a third choice where neither of these things happen.
- efdee 6y ago
  It's not the same. It's much, much worse. This is sanctioned, happy-few bribery.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  That only makes it worse, surely?
- kelnos 6y ago
  Anyone can bribe... if they have the money to do so. Which certainly puts many groups at a disadvantage. Regardless, the police officer doesn't benefit directly from being shown a "courtesy card", so it's not like a cop is going to pull someone over just for the hope of getting shown one of these cards. But in countries where police bribery is prevalent, police will often stop people who are doing nothing wrong, simply because they want a bribe. So I agree that these two practices aren't the same, but not for the reason you state. Both practices are awful and disadvantage people who are unable to participate (don't have police friends, can't afford a bribe), but the "courtesy card" garbage at least doesn't create a police-citizen extortion situation.
koolba 6y ago
There’s a huge difference between signaling a prior relationship with law enforcement by presenting a PBA card and outright bribing the responding officer.
- afandian 6y ago
  They are different, but both forms of corruption.
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  What's the difference besides how the special permission to break the law is obtained? It's still corruption. The article shows you can buy these cards on eBay for <$100.
  - koolba 6y ago
    > What's the difference besides how the special permission to break the law is obtained? Outright bribes can be demanded on the spot for infractions that’s don’t exist. They incentivize stopping more people to demand them. They directly benefit the responding officer and can become a core part of their income. Once that happens you’re really screwed as the only people willing to become cops are dirty cops. > It's still corruption. I didn’t say it’s a good practice. But just because it’s bad does not mean it’s worse than living with a “police tax” every time you’re stopped. > The article shows you can buy these cards on eBay for <$100. That’s be pointless and is for suckers. The cop is supposed to contact the source to verify the relationship.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      From the article: > Mike works in an industry that regularly puts him into contact with police officers, which gives him the opportunity to form personal, trusting relationships with them. As such, he said, he frequently receives PBA cards as a thank-you for extending cops small business favors and deals; currently, he estimates that he has somewhere between 10 and 12 unexpired courtesy cards in his possession. That is literally a bribe.
mNovak 6y ago
I think the argument concerns how commonplace bribery is. This exists, but is relatively small in scope. And no, I don't agree with the "universal bribery is democratic" argument, because the end goal is to arrive at 0 bribery.
thinkharderdev 6y ago
I think the counter argument would be that the issue with police bribery is not so much that some people are able to get out of minor citations (it's not like these cards will get you out of murder charge or anything) but rather the issue of corrupt police shaking people down for bribes.

Kednicma 6y ago

The equivalent in our industry is when somebody gets locked out of a Google/Apple/etc. multi-service account, has no backup or rescue access, but is put in touch with a friend of a friend who happens to work at the vendor. It's systemic favoritism.

AlexandrB 6y ago
I wish people would keep these kinds of situations in mind when discussing whether or not a certain industry is a "meritocracy".
- refurb 6y ago
  The issue people have with “meritocracy” is because they can only think in black and white, no grays. Society is made up of humans and humans do unfair things. That doesn’t mean that tech companies aren’t generally meritocracies.
- aaron695 6y ago
  I have no idea what you are saying? Having friends in an industry is hard work, so it a meritocracy, it is well earned to have made contacts that will help you. In this article it's perhaps family, but a family that supports their childrens career in a blue collar job like policing, in a meritocracy, also deserve the reward. In policing perhaps it's illegal or should be illegal. But it's still a meritocracy.
Minor49er 6y ago
I don't think this is systemic at all. If companies found out that this was going on in their organizations, most of them would shut the practice down pretty quickly and almost certainly fire anyone involved. Otherwise, those companies could face some pretty heavy lawsuits and fines.
- jmull 6y ago
  Systemic doesn’t necessarily mean official. But semantics aside, I think this often works without violating company policies. It’s more about having a connection to get the attention of someone who has authority to override or initiate a friendly appeal of some prior judgement call.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

The fundamental issue here is that being a normal person puts you on the wrong side of the law and/or the punishments for being on the wrong side of the law are too severe.

TempLogsForOne 6y ago
That is just a symptom of the problem as the tyrannical administrative bureaucratic police state expands at exponential rates, to cheers and demands for ever more control by mommy and daddy government. But to your point, you are correct, the only people left on the wrong side of the law are law abiding productive people who do not have personal connections to law enforcement. Ever other group gets treated with a light touch and has excuses made for them and criminals are now getting off the hook left and right, while the anarcho-tyrannical administrative state increases it's abuses of regular productive and peaceful people. It's either by design, out of desperation, or due to incompetence; but it will not end well for any of us, regardless.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I find it unsurprising but disheartening that this was flagged. The entire administrative bureaucracy is in on this racket and it's unfair to pick in the police alone for it. In my state it's not just the police that peddle influence like this. Many state agencies have little identifiers that range from IDs to bumper stickers that they give to their employees with the unspoken purpose of signaling "don't screw me, I work for your team". The most coveted are the court system ones because no matter what agency is trying to screw you none of them want to piss off people who work for the courts. My state also has all sorts of ways to wave fines and whatnot for economic hardship reasons (which I fully support). This creates effectively three classes of people, those who are part of the in-group and treated decently by government. Those who have money and are preyed upon by government. And those who don't have money and are ignored by government unless they are committing serious (i.e. violent) crime because the government gains nothing by cracking down on them. Why can't the government just treat everyone like the former or the latter or, even better, repeal all the stupid laws that have wildly low compliance rates?

kop316 6y ago

I've also noticed in a lot of states that cars have the "fraternal order of police" sticker, and it is affixed right on their licence plate. I suspect its for a similar reason, that either if you get your plate's picture taken or local police can see that right away.

nickthegreek 6y ago
yep, its a signal to officers that you went out of your way to donate extra money to the police force so that they are more forgiving as they approach your car or just don't pull you over to begin with.
- eplanit 6y ago
  I think that today a Trump 2020 bumper sticker would have the same effect.
  - nickthegreek 6y ago
    I think the american thin blue line flag is more direct. https://www.amazon.com/Matter-Sticker-Support-Enforcement-Officers/dp/B07CCLSPB5 https://www.amazon.com/Matter-Sticker-Support-Enforcement-Of...
  - joshstrange 6y ago
    There is a chilling effect in the other direction as well. I'm not too keen on decorating my car to support various things I do support (candidate/BLM/etc) because I know the cops might treat me worse with that on my car... fun times.
    - illirik 6y ago
      I just have two Seattle Mariners bumper stickers on my truck; haven't been pulled over since putting em on, so they must think I have enough misery as it is! /s I think the real issue is that it has been decided somehow that it is our fault for being policed and experiencing the frequent resulting injustices. A police officer can pull you over, stop you walking down the street, etc. etc. and fine you, jail you, or brutalize you at will, and in all but the most egregious cases (that also must become a cause celebre), they can just do it again tomorrow. There's always some justification, no matter how flimsy! That's not to say this violence is evenly distributed among the population. POC, the poor and working class, those who work odd hours and have to drive at 3 AM etc. certainly have a much, much, much harder time than e.g. the median HN commenter. But the answer to the question "What's stopping a given police officer from e.g. breaking my arm while pulling me out of my vehicle?" is much less "they will suffer consequences if they do" and much more "they haven't decided it's what they want to do today"

helsinkiandrew 6y ago

> he frequently receives PBA cards as a thank-you for extending cops small business favors and deals This is corruption. I've never understood how things like this can happen in the US - why is this tolerated? If this happened in the UK I'm fairly sure it would be raised in the press, then parliament and then the Home Secretary (in charge of policing) would be forced to make a statement and likely do something about it.

MattGaiser 6y ago
1.Plenty of Americans view enforcing traffic laws are nothing more than "a greedy gubbermint cash grab." For those participating, they view it as using corruption to avoid corruption. 2. You can't easily do something about it other than taking away police discretion. Unlike with a traditional bribe, where something is exchanged for something, you can't demonstrate that the person got off for the card compared to the officer just deciding to give them a break.
- bananaface 6y ago
  Can't you just ban the cards?
  - pnutjam 6y ago
    Mostly they are "secret". Edit: didn't read the article, but I still think they fly under the radar for the vast majority of people and they should absolutely be a career ender for Police to hand out. Sounds like low fruit for cleaning up America.
  - cool_dude85 6y ago
    Sure, we'll just have the police arrest the police officers who give them out.
    - bananaface 6y ago
      Silly response. If the cards were illegal people would absolutely be hesitant to flash them to a random cop.

spacedcowboy 6y ago

What the actual fuck ? From an outside-the-US perspective, the stack of “Things I’d never believe about the USA, please, Alex” is just getting higher and higher. How is it legal to have preferential treatment, no matter under what circumstances, for ‘friends of the police’? Is Lady Liberty not famously blind while balancing the scales of justice ? Does the maxim “justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done” somehow not apply in the USA ? Over the last few years, it seems to me the rock that used to be the USA has been overturned, and all the slimy creepy little nasties are being exposed to the harsh light of day. What happens in a few months is going to be critical to the soul of your nation. Get it right, I doubt you’ll recover if you don’t.

derwiki 6y ago
I assure you, “friend of the police” cards have been going on for more than a few years. And from what my military friends tell me, handing a cop your military ID tends to work just as well.
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  In some communities other memberships can also hold sway. I remember one person mentioning some sort of scouting membership getting him out of a traffic stop.
  - derwiki 6y ago
    I was told an Eagle Scout card might have the same effect, but it seemed.. un-Eagly to try.
  - c22 6y ago
    I got out of a speeding ticket once because the officer was into the classic car I was driving.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    The officer puts you in a category within seconds of meeting you - citizen, perp or 'blue line'. Their response depends upon this judgement call. My son the disable vet could not seem to get a ticket. He occasionally speeds, not egregiously, but the Fort Benning parking sticker on his truck window and the military ID in his wallet made a difference in the attitude of the officer.

merricksb 6y ago

If curious, see this discussion about the topic from early 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890

gwbas1c 6y ago

You don't need a physical card. A friend of mine who used to get into trouble all the time when he was a teenager got away with a ton of stuff. His father was a chief or something, so every local cop just knew who he was. You don't want to arrest your boss's son.

spideymans 6y ago
Heck, if you're wealthy enough, and get pulled over drunk, tell then you're friends with someone at the department. The cop will make a few phone calls, and boom, you get chauffeured home by the cops for free.
pavon 6y ago
Yeah, these cards are basically a way of extending behavior that has always occurred in small departments to a larger force where the police can't possibly know everyone they are "supposed" to give favors to.

qntty 6y ago

The first step to being an authoritarian is separating the in-group from the out-group so you can deal out harsh punishment to one and be forgiving to the other.

EGreg 6y ago

Hate the game, not the player. This is definitely corruption. BUT, at least, it is supposed to be for minor infractions. Unlike meter maids, police officers should be given leeway to let people go. It’s the mandatory minimums and fines you should worry about... cops doing revenue generation for the city. And when their department doesn’t get enough from taxes and tickets, police departments across the country turn to civil forfeiture. Ideally, the officers should act as if everyone has these cards. https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/local/20100607_Police_say_don_t_confuse_courtesy_cards_with_a_free_pass.html https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/local/20100607_Police_s...

nicoburns 6y ago
> Ideally, the officers should act as if everyone has these cards. Totally agree with this. I think part of the reason they are in issue is it reduces the political pressure on this happening if some people can get this treatment anyway.

nip180 6y ago

I find unequal enforcement of the law to be one is it’s worst aspects. There is not only officer discretion, but there is also discretion several places in the judicial system and privilege in being able to hire better legal council. Some neighborhoods are policed more heavily than others. Some groups of people are targeted more heavily than others. Some city police departments enforce state/federal laws unevenly. There should be one law for everyone, and if two random people with similar criminal histories break the same law in different places we should expect their outcomes and sentencing to be very similar. Right now this is far from the case.

darkarmani 6y ago
I agree, but at the same time the alternative is zero tolerance. Maybe the big problem is not the discretion, but that it isn't recorded? For example, i think it is complete corruption that LEOs and their families generally get "professional courtesy". I've heard the argument that it is a perk of the job. I disagree, but if you accept that argument, I would say: let the judge and courts handle the forgiveness of the offense and have it recorded in documents. Make it an official procedure and it will not look like corruption.
- nip180 6y ago
  > I agree, but at the same time the alternative is zero tolerance. I think it’s unfair to use term zero tolerance to describe equal enforcement. Zero tolerance is a specific sentencing pattern which uses harsh punishments for crimes. Equal enforcement is about making sure all groups have the same relationship with the law. If the laws on the books are overly harsh once enforced than we should change those laws.
  - GurnBlandston 6y ago
    The public would be better served by reducing the number of things that are illegal to only those things that deserve to be enforced with 'zero tolerance'.

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specialp 6y ago

This is real at least in the NY area. NY law gives officers "discretion" in issuing violations (not crimes). That doesn't have a limit. So being friends with a fellow PO is technically not an illegal reason to not issue a violation. I agree that it is not fair. Generally though if you do something like drive 30 over the limit, they aren't going to let you off with a card. But a non connected person can get pulled over for something minor and get every ticket they can. This snowballs for poor people that then have more fines on top of fines.

mattlondon 6y ago

There used to be something similar in the UK IIRC - the traffic police nicknamed themselves "black rats". If you had a sticker of the black rat mascot/logo on the back of your car then you were either a traffic officer, or someone close to them (wife/husband/etc) and a wink and a nod an you were on your way. I don't think it was a deliberate "get out of jail" move - just more of a "Oh you have a sticker for my unit's mascot on your car!" recognition type thing. I think it kinda stopped when they started giving away the stickers on "enthusiast" car/motorbike magazines etc

jopsen 6y ago
Lol, I suppose as the cards carries no real legitimacy, it's not illegal to fake them. That said, being stopped by cop who notices that it's fake probably isn't a good idea :)
082349872349872 6y ago
Are "KMA 367" plate holders still a thing in Los Angeles? https://www.straightdope.com/21341883/in-los-angeles-why-do-so-many-license-plate-holders-say-kma367 https://www.straightdope.com/21341883/in-los-angeles-why-do-...

jopsen 6y ago

The mere appearance of corruption in police is enough of a problem. Even in minor cases. Debating whether this is bribery or nepotism is pointless, because the appearance this gives should be plenty to fire officers who hand out such cards. Conveniently, they supposedly write their name on the cards they hand out :)

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kemayo 6y ago

I once got pulled over for speeding in the middle of Kansas. The cop who was giving me my ticket told me that they had a program for avoiding having the ticket reported so your insurance rates won't rise. So I went along with it, and mailed the cost of the ticket plus a hundred dollars to that city's police department, care of the "sheriff's benevolent association" (or similar -- it's been a decade, the name is fuzzy to me). ...it remains one of the more blatantly shady-feeling things I remember encountering in the US.

bathtub365 6y ago
I'd rather give my money to an insurance company than corrupt cops.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I'd pick a lawyer over either. At least he has to make a living delivering results. The other two have their existence perpetuated by law.
  - ksm1717 6y ago
    I mean you could argue that LAWyers literally exist because of law. Or at least perpetuated by the other two options which are perpetuated by law.
    - Yetanfou 6y ago
      Doesn't that work the other way around as well, as in LAWs come to life or stay in place because of LAWyers? Both due to the rather large percentage of lawyers who end up in politics as well as due to lawyers using their powers of persuasion - monetary or otherwise - to influence law makers?
  - kelnos 6y ago
    The prevalence and prestige of the law profession only started (in the US) in the late 1800s because of the rise of complicated, business-friendly contract law that made highly-trained lawyers a necessity for getting things done. The laws were used primarily to enforce burdensome contracts against workers and individuals, and protect businesses from holding up their end of the bargain. I'd say that period was likely the birth of the American tendency toward litigiousness. The legal profession exists and is so lucrative specifically because of the shape of government and the law.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

The racial connection here is quite a stretch and sounds like more race baiting. It has nothing to do with that. Knicks players have them. Yankees have them.

dbg31415 6y ago

My neighbor in Austin is a lawyer for the police union. He would hand these cards out to everyone in the cul-de-sac along with some booze for Christmas presents. There's a little "CLEAT" sticker that you can put in your back window too. I put the sticker in the window of one car but not the other. In the car without the sticker... I got pulled over in West Texas visiting relatives, and the cop literally had his gun drawn as he came to my window. Alone on a dark and empty road, guy with a gun on you -- probably the scariest moment of my life. In the car with the sticker, in a similar small town in West Texas (lots of speed traps between Austin and Midland)... as the officer was walking to my car he saw the sticker and his whole body language instantly shifted. He got to my window, "Hope I didn't scare you with the lights, you don't seem like you're from around here. Are you lost? Just trying to be neighborly." I was going 20-ish miles over the speed limit both times. I looked into getting another sticker and it literally only cost me $25. Significantly better treatment from police doesn't cost very much. Anyway, yup corrupt as fuck... but as long as these exist, for a simple $25 donation, might as well have a CLEAT sticker in your window. Also, what really bugs me... Police in Texas are allowed to unionize, but Teachers are not. Oof. Been here almost 20 years now, I love a lot of things about Texas, but some of the politics still suck. PS: Also I keep a Book of the Mormon in my glove compartment, that way if I ever do get pulled over I just casually grab the book when looking for insurance papers. For some reason seems like a lot of cops in Texas are Mormons...

082349872349872 6y ago
Lund, "Bible on the Dash": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S00y75ebq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S00y75ebq8
- dbg31415 6y ago
  Ha, spot on. When you find a flaw, do you fix the system or game the system?
0xcafecafe 6y ago
Wow. I wonder if there is an equivalent of this sticker for other states.

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smaslennikov 6y ago

Pretty confused why this post got flagged, but I did put together a (strong) personal opinion a while back[^0] that touches on these topics. I didn't publish it because a friend gave me a counter opinion I couldn't find a time to respond to, but I suppose it might as well be public now. [^0]: https://smaslennikov.com/posts/enforcement/ https://smaslennikov.com/posts/enforcement/

cvhashim 6y ago

Why is Vice always flagged on HN?

me_me_me 6y ago

So we are now using monopoly rules to run a country? A literal get-out-of-jail-free card!

dafoex 6y ago
There's literally a monopoly "go" tile on it. Contrast this with the UK where the coppers like to get "go to jail" t shirts.

excalibur 6y ago

> The cards embody everything wrong with modern policing. That's a pretty broad claim. The cards aren't even big enough to LIST everything wrong with modern policing.

dafoex 6y ago
Its a pretty broad claim because a lot of countries have a different idea to america on what modern policing means.
deleted 6y ago
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thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago
The cards represent corruption, self-interest, and selective enforcement of the law. I think a lot of problems would be solved or help accountable for if those issues were resolved.
kelnos 6y ago
I think it's a pretty reasonable claim. The cards illustrate the idea that the law is applied unequally, and at the whim of the police officer... which I believe is the root of much of the problems with US policing.
notJim 6y ago
> be an expression of or give a tangible or visible form to (an idea, quality, or feeling) The cards "are an expression of" everything wrong with modern policing. Not sure if you are just being pedantic, but this seems to fit.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

Seems sketchy. But even the TSA has a 'safe list' of folks who can skip the line - is this morally different? Law enforcement identifies folks who are not habitual offenders, who support law enforcement and who if they abuse the privilege will hear about it from a cop/friend, and give them a card. Not sounding like such a terrible thing to me. Remember, nobody is getting away with murder here. <edit: elaborate>

deleted 6y ago
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djmobley 6y ago

Sounds like the CHP 11-99 Foundation license plate frame, which could (allegedly) get you out of speeding tickets [0] [0] https://priceonomics.com/can-you-buy-a-license-to-speed/ https://priceonomics.com/can-you-buy-a-license-to-speed/

rsynnott 6y ago

This can't _possibly_ be legal, surely? Wtf.

smcl 6y ago
The police in the US are not particularly bothered by things like laws or human rights For now at least
moogly 6y ago
Only (or is it 'not even'?) the Police police the Police.

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theptip 6y ago

Presumably this sort of thing will become harder to maintain as bodycams become more prevalent. It seems plausible that anti-corruption NGOs could request the bodycam footage (anonymized, I suppose) under public records disclosure laws. (e.g. see https://www.rcfp.org/bodycam-video-access/ https://www.rcfp.org/bodycam-video-access/, though I'd be really interested in what others think about the likely legal interpretations of disclosure requirements.) Yet another reason to push for more bodycams, and auditability/disclosure of that footage; sunlight is often the best disinfectant.

sbilstein 6y ago
Given that we have lots of body cam footage of police brutality now yet haven’t significantly moved the needle on reducing incidences, I’m not hopeful that will make a difference. Maybe incentives for snitching on fellow police would work better?
djaque 6y ago
The problem right now is that camera footage is handled by the police departments. Any oversight requires the police to operate in good faith. Thinking back to how many news reports I've seen where the footage was "lost" or "the cameras were not switched on" I don't have any trust in that type of system. We really need third party monitoring.
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  Plus, think of the thousands of hours of footage that is regularly collected. Without some incident or reason to inspect the video, most of the incidents would go undetected.

woodruffw 6y ago

For the curious: a more regional[1] form of this petty corruption in the NYC area is placard abuse[2]. It's pretty common to see cars with these parked in front of hydrants, in bike lanes, etc, being completely ignored by the police. [1]: As far as I know, being a lifelong New Yorker. [2]: https://twitter.com/placardabuse https://twitter.com/placardabuse

Xavdidtheshadow 6y ago
The Houston area PD has an organization called the "100 Club" [0] where you can donate to get a nice sticker. Each year has a different color, so it's easy to show how long you've been a member. [1] Officially they're just to support the LEO orgs, but there's also anecdata in my friend group that having one (or more) makes you more likely to get out of most things with just a warning. [0]: https://the100club.org/about/#what https://the100club.org/about/#what [1]: https://twitter.com/sighborgs/status/1246113527158497282 https://twitter.com/sighborgs/status/1246113527158497282
- woodruffw 6y ago
  Apropos of nothing: apart from being similar to the placard racket, I wonder how many people who donate to this organization realize that their dollars are being used to buy MRAPs[1], not pay for the educations of the children of dead cops. [1]: https://the100club.org/newsroom/ https://the100club.org/newsroom/
asdff 6y ago
There must be something like that in LA as well, as a surprising number of people are driving on the road and parking on the street with no plates at all. Sometimes nice cars, usually with the drug dealer tint level on the windows (slightly darker than celebrity tinted windows).

renewiltord 6y ago

Hahaha, I love it. They literally formalized the old boys' network.

aazaa 6y ago

The recent focus on racial bias in policing has had a negative outcome: to distract attention from the fact that the law is being applied unevenly across the US. Racial bias in police encounters is a symptom, not the disease.

86J8oyZv 6y ago
This is true, but the racial bias is easier to get people to rally behind. And it's gotten people talking more about the non-racial injustices in our justice system, too.

ElijahLynn 6y ago

I know two people who had these in New Jersey. One used to speed all the time and never get a ticket or warnings. Super convenient for them. It was a legit card, a metal one, I saw it. Pretty corrupt there in New Jersey.

stefan_ 6y ago

The big problem in the US is the lack of automated speed enforcement. When you have officers doing traffic enforcement it inevitably turns into a corrupt shit show, and if you're black, you might not even live through it. Although its now 2020, where every 300 gram toy drone will automatically refuse to fly anywhere near an airport. It took 0 drones taking down 0 airplanes to do that. Modern cars can trivially enforce the speed limit, but we have ten thousands of deaths and counting every year and it's not happening.

donmcronald 6y ago
A 100% guarantee of getting caught would significantly reduce the number of people speeding. That eliminates something that functions like a regressive tax, so it's never going to happen.
nitrogen 6y ago
Modern cars can trivially enforce the speed limit Not sure about everywhere, but speed limits are first glance limits in at least some places, where other evidence can prove that a speed above the limit was not "speeding". Speed limits don't know what traffic is doing, they don't know road conditions, they don't know if you have an emergency. They're just a number set by ideally an engineer, or less ideally a party with conflicting interests (revenue). I had to drive someone to an emergency room once. There wasn't time or money for an ambulance. If my car was automatically enforcing speed limits, they might have died. Moreover there are far, far, far fewer no-fly zones than speed limit zones. A no-fly zone is a fairly simple polygon -- are you inside or outside. Every street has its own speed limit, which can vary from 5mph to 80mph in the US, and traffic on some freeways is consistently higher than 80. Some highways have dynamic speed limits, e.g. 65 at night and 55 during rush hour. School zones and pedestrian crossings have limits based on whether someone has switched on a light, or times of day, or even just the presence of children. So no, you cannot have, and do not want, automated in-vehicle enforcement of speed limits.
- stefan_ 6y ago
  No, the fact that US people can't call an ambulance for risk of bankruptcy is not a good reason to allow cars to accelerate to 120 mph in cities. That's the point here: you can add cities as simple convex polys and you are already 80% of the way there. Drones don't need to listen to air traffic either.

anm89 6y ago

The simplest way to fix a huge amount of problems that exist in the USA would be to start holding the police accountable for their actions. This is police corruption, an especially harmful category of corruption that undermindes our entire legal system. It should be 5 years minimum in federal prison. Police should recieve drastically stronger charges and sentences when they violate the law, not the other way around. If someone above was found to have known about it and didn't report it should be 2x. You show me a problem in modern america (maybe except healthcare) and I bet I could argue this one policy would fix it in one roundabout way or another. It won't happen for a bunch of structural reasons unless a major party took it up as a major part of their platform but it would work. Come to think of it, this is one of the very few things one of the major parties could do to get me to vote for them.

secabeen 6y ago
And to be clear, to to common refrain "well, if cops were going to be held responsible for their actions, they wouldn't put their lives at risk, they've be extra conservative!", my answer to you is: "fine, we don't want those people to be cops anyways."
- kaesar14 6y ago
  And if it really is that much more dangerous and risky to be a cop because of this, pay them more! People put their health on the line to be GARBAGEMEN for cryin' out loud! They do it because the pay is good, and the benefits are solid. Make the cops earn the inordinate salaries they pull home.
  - 34679 6y ago
    According to multiple "Most Dangerous Jobs" lists, being a garbage collector is far more dangerous than being a police officer.
  - Karunamon 6y ago
    Police officer salary isn't that great from the data I've been able to find. Nationwide average is 48K/yr. 57k/yr in NYC, 55k/yr in LA. This is roughly the same range as a public school teacher, slightly less.

SMAAART 6y ago

Also available on eBay (of course) https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=PBA+cards+&_sacat=0 https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m...

cma 6y ago

Sounds like China's social credit system but maybe worse in some ways.

bitwize 6y ago

Literal get out of jail free cards. JHC.

andrewxdiamond 6y ago

In Ohio it’s is common to see license plates with police badges or stickers on them. They are handed out to friends and family and deter officers from pulling you over.

skizm 6y ago
Almost all cops I know are specifically told to take all things that could identify them as cops or friends of cops off their cars, windows, etc. since there is so much targeted violence and crime specifically directed against police. And this is in relatively safe NJ suburban areas. Tires on their personal cars get slashed all the time due to having a badge in a window or similar.
- asdff 6y ago
  People drive pickup trucks with a 6' trump flag and a 6' thin blue line flag mounted to each side of the bed in the midwest. different animal than the east coast.

donohoe 6y ago

I had one of these. I was given it not having slightest idea what it was for (was only in the NYC/US about two years at that point). I was told its meaning a couple of years later when I found it again during a move. I've thrown it out. While I appreciate the gesture from the person who gave it to me, I was repelled by what it represented in terms of how privilege and the police system work.

Grimm1 6y ago

This has been a common thing forever. Whether it's right is very much and should be up for discussion but I'm surprised at how many people seem to be learning this for the first time. Same thing worked with the small silver shields you could give out. I don't really agree with how policing is done in the US and it has started more than one fight with my long retired former police father but as a matter of practicality I still carry his silver shield with me. He hasn't been an officer since I was 5 or so but even in high school the active police families and the families with ada's or prosecutors all had PBA cards and would give them out.

snapetom 6y ago
Very much been around forever. The PBA cards are common in NY and NJ, where cops are basically a legalized mafia. In areas where PBA cards are not the norm, a simple business card with the officer's signature plays the same role. "If there's a problem, you can check with my friend Officer so and so. Here's his card."

yadco 6y ago

Can't find any evidence in this article.

xphilter 6y ago

Wait till y’all learn about “fraternal order of police” fundraisers and car stickers identifying donors, allowing “discretion” to be used by the cop to let the violation go.

caiobegotti 6y ago

So... "protection" like under the mafia but only if you can afford the state price, so its supporters invariably are high in the food^Wdecision chain. It doesn't seem like a very democratic rule of law.

CarbyAu 6y ago

What I don't get is: - The police need social capital. It helps enormously if they can be take at face value for "just doing their job". And this would help in the minor day-to-day interactions that makes up the majority of their working lives. - Not only is it blatant corruption, the very existence of such cards harms the whole police forces social relationship! It is a "associate infraction with a cop!" card! If I were a true friend of the police, I would: - let them do their job fairly (while not letting them get away with unfair) - not try to associate a cop buddy of mine with my poor decisions!

classics2 6y ago

Around here you see a lot of people with plastic stars they give out for “donating” to police organizations screwed onto the rear license plate.

fareesh 6y ago

In the USA legislators and others in government have publicly voiced their support of, contributed to, and organized bail funds for specific groups of people based on their views on particular topics. One Presidential candidate's campaign (through its staffers) has also paid money towards something called the "Minnesota Freedom Fund". Why is there a contribution only to this fund? If you protest animal testing and are arrested for some similar crime, where is your bail fund? In those cases you have to organize the money yourself, people in your government don't organize it for you. Philosophically, government is supposed to serve everyone equally, but depending on the political views of the alleged criminal, or the self-proclaimed cause that they are supporting while performing allegedly illegal acts under the banner of "civil disobedience" or "peaceful protest", there is an availability of bail funds, selective prosecution, and all sorts of other features of the justice system available on a selective basis - i.e. the banner under which the illegality takes place. If the principle of selective/unequal dispensation of justice is wrong, it ought to be criticized irrespective of the form it takes. When it is ignored in some forms but other forms result in outrage, it's difficult not to question the motivations of whoever is amplifying this particular flavor of bias. If it is acceptable for the system to consider banners and offer different features to offenders depending on which banner they are flying when they interact with the system, then this is also acceptable. I personally would prefer a conversation that looks at the problem of selective enforcement across many spheres.

ijtioerhgser 6y ago
Or we could just eliminate cash bail, for everyone. It's been eliminated in my state for most crimes, and they are trying it out in other states as well. It's not perfect, but it results in a lot less people in jail because they can't pay, and it hasn't made us any less safe. Otherwise, I don't think you're going to solve the issue of "people only donating bail money to people they like." Because people are going to spend money the way they want.

jrochkind1 6y ago

Last paragraph: “Policing was never meant to be held accountable in the first place, not in a meaningful, substantial way,” Wall said. He cautioned against focusing too much on the injustice of PBA cards. “Be careful that the outrage [doesn't] become directed in too narrow a way. The real outrage should be directed at the nature of policing itself.”

Ice_cream_suit 6y ago

This is a common sort of corruption, worldwide. Here in Australia, my receptionist has got out of a few minor traffic infringements because her husband is a friend of a cop.

PostPlummer 6y ago

30 years ago (quite exact), we drove back after a 48 hour "party" in Berlin (Roger Waters playing "the wall" at the broken down wall). We got stopped at the border (Germany > Holland) and I drove. We where tired, still high and half drunk. When the border patrol asked me (the driver) for papers, it took me a long time to produce them and one of my friends woke up, asked what was going on and pulled out his official "bridge operator" badge. Showed it (before I was even capable to find my driving licence and passport) to the trooper and just said "Hi partner": we where waved through. When I asked what the actual F just had happened, he told me his job made him an "non commissioned officer" and that was all it took for us to be treated as part of the blue family, who go to great lengths to "help each other". Different times, different continent, same rules.

nphd 6y ago

I feel like we're at a crossroads: Hire huge battalions of union dues-paying forever-rookie police behind an iron curtain and arm them to the teeth, or Operate a modernized, transparent, outcomes-based criminal justice system. It would be interesting to understand why so many politicians and police themselves talk about the latter while quietly implementing the former. What's in it for them?

HeavyStorm 6y ago

So "get out of jail free cards" do exist. And here I thought that GTA came up with them. In 1997