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> People donate thousands to streamers and models because they are [lonely]. Speaking of being reductive... Consider the possibility that people also do it be

by sbarre 6y ago

> People donate thousands to streamers and models because they are [lonely]. Speaking of being reductive... Consider the possibility that people also do it because they enjoy the interaction they get out of it, however shallow and/or fleeting. The same way some people pay top dollar for a "meet and greet" with rock stars or athletes before a show or game, where you get to shake hands, take selfies and trade platitudes with famous people and then they never see you or think of you again. People donate to streams to hear the streamer thank them or call them out by name or interact with them, in some manner, for some amount of time. I'm not saying loneliness is not a factor, but it's definitely not the only factor. Like everything else to do with human interactions, it's complicated.

dvt 6y ago
> The same way some people pay top dollar for a "meet and greet" with rock stars or athletes before a show or game, where you get to shake hands, take selfies and trade platitudes with famous people and then they never see you or think of you again. Famous people aren't exempt from fostering parasocial relationships (see Taylor Swift's iPhone app), and Eminem famously wrote/performed "Stan" about a hypothetical overzealous fan that was in a parasocial relationship with him. I don't think I'm being reductive when I say that I think most Onlyfans subscribers -- especially those that give significant percentages of their income to models for a modicum of attention -- are "stans."
- chii 6y ago
  > are "stans" the new name for this is SIMPs
slg 6y ago
>People donate to streams to hear the streamer thank them or call them out by name or interact with them, in some manner, for some amount of time. Let's get one more accusation of reductiveness in here. You are still viewing it through a lens of parasocial behavior. The token thanks isn't the only motivating factor. People don't donate to NPR just to get tote bags. They donate because they recognize the content has both value and costs. Those donations are part of recognizing that value and supporting future content creation. The same applies to streaming. Some donations are a means of thanking the streamer and providing them with both a means and a motivation to continue making content. The interactive nature of the content on a site like Twitch doesn't necessarily make it any different than non-interactive content you might find on a site like Patreon.
- dvt 6y ago
  > People don't donate to NPR just to get tote bags. [...] The interactive nature of the content on a site like Twitch doesn't necessarily make it any different than non-interactive content you might find on a site like Patreon. Comparing someone like Pokimane or Amouranth to NPR is laughably disingenuous. There are amazing content creators out there (ranging from math, to dance, to music, to films, to politics) that don't exploit parasocial relationships with their audience. Onlyfans is, arguably, positioned to specifically exploit parasocial relationships.
  - slg 6y ago
    I'm not comparing their content. I am comparing their business models. I don't see many differences between the business model of NPR and many Twitch streamers. They give their content away for free knowing most people will never pay for it, they ask for donations knowing only a small percentage would be willing to donate, and they give donators a few token gifts as a thank you. You admit yourself there are "amazing content creators out there... that don't exploit parasocial relationships" so why are you judging everyone by the standards of the worst examples you can find? That is why you were also accused of being reductive.
    - dvt 6y ago
      > You admit yourself there are "amazing content creators out there... that don't exploit parasocial relationships" so why are you judging everyone by the standards of the worst examples you can find? That is why you were also accused of being reductive. Because the article is about Onlyfans and Bella Thorne: a platform (and a creator) that leverages parasocial interaction. It's not like models make Onlyfans accounts to fund their science and math YouTube channels.
      - oars 6y ago
        I just want to say that this is a really fascinating discussion and I want to thank you both for this. You both have really opened my eyes to both sides of this argument.
throwaway894345 6y ago
> Consider the possibility that people also do it because they enjoy the interaction they get out of it, however shallow and/or fleeting. Uh, how is this different than loneliness?
- KineticLensman 6y ago
  In some cases the interaction may have a sexual element that isn't available from friends in real life
- Supermancho 6y ago
  That's not remotely the same thing. I enjoy talking with other programmers, not because I'm lonely.

by sbarre 6y ago

dvt 6y ago

> The same way some people pay top dollar for a "meet and greet" with rock stars or athletes before a show or game, where you get to shake hands, take selfies and trade platitudes with famous people and then they never see you or think of you again. Famous people aren't exempt from fostering parasocial relationships (see Taylor Swift's iPhone app), and Eminem famously wrote/performed "Stan" about a hypothetical overzealous fan that was in a parasocial relationship with him. I don't think I'm being reductive when I say that I think most Onlyfans subscribers -- especially those that give significant percentages of their income to models for a modicum of attention -- are "stans."

chii 6y ago
> are "stans" the new name for this is SIMPs

slg 6y ago

>People donate to streams to hear the streamer thank them or call them out by name or interact with them, in some manner, for some amount of time. Let's get one more accusation of reductiveness in here. You are still viewing it through a lens of parasocial behavior. The token thanks isn't the only motivating factor. People don't donate to NPR just to get tote bags. They donate because they recognize the content has both value and costs. Those donations are part of recognizing that value and supporting future content creation. The same applies to streaming. Some donations are a means of thanking the streamer and providing them with both a means and a motivation to continue making content. The interactive nature of the content on a site like Twitch doesn't necessarily make it any different than non-interactive content you might find on a site like Patreon.

dvt 6y ago
> People don't donate to NPR just to get tote bags. [...] The interactive nature of the content on a site like Twitch doesn't necessarily make it any different than non-interactive content you might find on a site like Patreon. Comparing someone like Pokimane or Amouranth to NPR is laughably disingenuous. There are amazing content creators out there (ranging from math, to dance, to music, to films, to politics) that don't exploit parasocial relationships with their audience. Onlyfans is, arguably, positioned to specifically exploit parasocial relationships.
- slg 6y ago
  I'm not comparing their content. I am comparing their business models. I don't see many differences between the business model of NPR and many Twitch streamers. They give their content away for free knowing most people will never pay for it, they ask for donations knowing only a small percentage would be willing to donate, and they give donators a few token gifts as a thank you. You admit yourself there are "amazing content creators out there... that don't exploit parasocial relationships" so why are you judging everyone by the standards of the worst examples you can find? That is why you were also accused of being reductive.
  - dvt 6y ago
    > You admit yourself there are "amazing content creators out there... that don't exploit parasocial relationships" so why are you judging everyone by the standards of the worst examples you can find? That is why you were also accused of being reductive. Because the article is about Onlyfans and Bella Thorne: a platform (and a creator) that leverages parasocial interaction. It's not like models make Onlyfans accounts to fund their science and math YouTube channels.
    - oars 6y ago
      I just want to say that this is a really fascinating discussion and I want to thank you both for this. You both have really opened my eyes to both sides of this argument.

throwaway894345 6y ago

> Consider the possibility that people also do it because they enjoy the interaction they get out of it, however shallow and/or fleeting. Uh, how is this different than loneliness?

KineticLensman 6y ago
In some cases the interaction may have a sexual element that isn't available from friends in real life
Supermancho 6y ago
That's not remotely the same thing. I enjoy talking with other programmers, not because I'm lonely.