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I know a whole bunch of nurses who won't shut up about how much they hate Epic. I watched my doctor try to use it once when I was in for a visit and he didn't

I know a whole bunch of nurses who won't shut up about how much they hate Epic. I watched my doctor try to use it once when I was in for a visit and he didn't seem to be enjoying the experience much either based on his grumbling. It seemed like there was a LOT of UI cluttering going on so I can understand how it might not be very easy to use.

mv 6y ago
At my hospital the nursing UI of Epic is absolutely horrid. It's cluttered and confusing with multiple places to document everything. Epic is completely customizable, but the people who make the decisions in nursing management aren't always the same people using the software. That and funding to make the changes. If you want to see really bad software take a look at Meditech it defaults 800x600 (!), and doesn't resize well at all.
- throwaway4220 6y ago
  Ah yes, I am still forced to use Meditech's telnet interface today. I asked our IT guy if we can please change the font to a smoothed, non-raster font. I think it took all his willpower to not burst out laughing lol
somehnguy 6y ago
Just a little personal anecdote but - A while back I had a week long stay in the hospital, after some small talk with one of my nurses she learned I write software. She told me a bunch of things they hated about Epic and gave me a quick tour of the interface they have to use. The main complaint seemed to be that things they need to do hundreds of times a day require way too many input actions. And it did indeed look incredibly cluttered. I love getting little tours of software I'll likely never use even though I'm not in a position to fix any of the problems. It's just interesting.
- bena 6y ago
  You know why? Because every doctor, nurse, tech, etc has a goddamn opinion on what's important. They're of the opinion that everything needs to be "as few clicks" as possible. As if "number of clicks" was the only worthwhile message. Nobody would read a book where the keyboard was pressed as few times as possible. Sometimes, complex actions require complex input. We should be shooting for discoverability, not "number of clicks".
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    Vim isn't known for its discoverability but remains popular.
    - lsiebert 6y ago
      This sounds like it's way less configurable than vim
  - somehnguy 6y ago
    Sure. Discoverability is great for new users to software. After the initial learning period I care far more about ease of performing repetitive actions. Discoverability is useless to me when I've already established a workflow and just want to perform known actions. I was specifically talking about things they do hundreds of times a day (at least) like dispensing medication, requesting medication, inputting vitals, taking notes, etc. Those things shouldn't require 10-15 clicks and 4 different modals/menus each time. They're extremely common use cases that a nurse will likely be performing a number of times in every single room they enter. And why shouldn't they have an opinion on what is important? They're the ones using the software all day!
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      > After the initial learning period I care far more about ease of performing repetitive actions. Discoverability is useless to me when I've already established a workflow and just want to perform known actions. I once got in trouble for using autohotkey for something like this. Like, wow were they upset with me.
- josephpmay 6y ago
  Epic just unveiled a new user interface for nurses trying to address this exact issue. The problem, and another commenter pointed out, becomes everybody has a different idea of what they need quickest access to, and many hospitals want to customize to fit their existing workflows, even when that’s not ideal for speed of use.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    > many hospitals want to customize to fit their existing workflows This is probably my single largest source of frustration with building/implementing any enterprise product.

mv 6y ago

At my hospital the nursing UI of Epic is absolutely horrid. It's cluttered and confusing with multiple places to document everything. Epic is completely customizable, but the people who make the decisions in nursing management aren't always the same people using the software. That and funding to make the changes. If you want to see really bad software take a look at Meditech it defaults 800x600 (!), and doesn't resize well at all.

throwaway4220 6y ago
Ah yes, I am still forced to use Meditech's telnet interface today. I asked our IT guy if we can please change the font to a smoothed, non-raster font. I think it took all his willpower to not burst out laughing lol

somehnguy 6y ago

Just a little personal anecdote but - A while back I had a week long stay in the hospital, after some small talk with one of my nurses she learned I write software. She told me a bunch of things they hated about Epic and gave me a quick tour of the interface they have to use. The main complaint seemed to be that things they need to do hundreds of times a day require way too many input actions. And it did indeed look incredibly cluttered. I love getting little tours of software I'll likely never use even though I'm not in a position to fix any of the problems. It's just interesting.

bena 6y ago
You know why? Because every doctor, nurse, tech, etc has a goddamn opinion on what's important. They're of the opinion that everything needs to be "as few clicks" as possible. As if "number of clicks" was the only worthwhile message. Nobody would read a book where the keyboard was pressed as few times as possible. Sometimes, complex actions require complex input. We should be shooting for discoverability, not "number of clicks".
- im3w1l 6y ago
  Vim isn't known for its discoverability but remains popular.
  - lsiebert 6y ago
    This sounds like it's way less configurable than vim
- somehnguy 6y ago
  Sure. Discoverability is great for new users to software. After the initial learning period I care far more about ease of performing repetitive actions. Discoverability is useless to me when I've already established a workflow and just want to perform known actions. I was specifically talking about things they do hundreds of times a day (at least) like dispensing medication, requesting medication, inputting vitals, taking notes, etc. Those things shouldn't require 10-15 clicks and 4 different modals/menus each time. They're extremely common use cases that a nurse will likely be performing a number of times in every single room they enter. And why shouldn't they have an opinion on what is important? They're the ones using the software all day!
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    > After the initial learning period I care far more about ease of performing repetitive actions. Discoverability is useless to me when I've already established a workflow and just want to perform known actions. I once got in trouble for using autohotkey for something like this. Like, wow were they upset with me.
josephpmay 6y ago
Epic just unveiled a new user interface for nurses trying to address this exact issue. The problem, and another commenter pointed out, becomes everybody has a different idea of what they need quickest access to, and many hospitals want to customize to fit their existing workflows, even when that’s not ideal for speed of use.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > many hospitals want to customize to fit their existing workflows This is probably my single largest source of frustration with building/implementing any enterprise product.