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> guideline violations What a language! How could "guidelines" ever be "violated"? Rules? Injunctions? Yes. Guidelines? No. Rules is too harsh certainly, so l
by bambax 6y ago
> guideline violations
What a language! How could "guidelines" ever be "violated"? Rules? Injunctions? Yes. Guidelines? No.
Rules is too harsh certainly, so let's use guidelines instead. But since the underlying meaning does not change, words lose connection to reality.
We think we are creating a softer and kinder world, but the opposite is true. If a guideline is actually an order, what's an order?
- dathinab 6y agoIt would be fun to try to sue Apple for misleading their customers (devs are customers, they pay yearly) and try to force them (and Google) to change the wording to correctly use rules. That's if you have a lot of throwaway money and you don't like charity.
- emteycz 6y agoCustomer protections in most countries do not apply to business deals.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- damnyou 6y agoWould that also be true if you are an independent developer? Why should individual developers releasing apps not get full customer protections? Treating all developers as businesses is part of the problem here I think. There should be more bespoke apps by individuals for small audiences — more of a community feel to things.
- emteycz 6y agoApple does not have to cater to independent developers - and it doesn't, per the Developer Agreement contract. Initially you weren't able to develop apps for the iPhone at all - that is okay too. You are not entitled to get a open computing platform if the thing resembles an... Actually, they defined this form factor!
- damnyou 6y agoRight, I understand that's Apple's point of view. I just believe all of this nonsense should be totally illegal.
- bcrosby95 6y agoI develop on iOS as a hobby not for business. But I don't know how common that is.
- judge2020 6y agoEven as an individual, the agreements you sign would be considered business deals since both you and Apple have the potential to profit from the agreement.
- damnyou 6y agoIf I am an individual developer and only intend to release free apps, I should be entitled to full customer protections, period. Apple has no excuse here.
- mrkstu 6y agoBut your 'harm' in that scenario is limited to your developer fees and likely the venue limited to small claims court or local equivalent.
- baddox 6y agoWhich customers do you think Apple cares more about, app developers or their actual iPhone customers?
- alasdair_ 6y agoApple needs to hire Steve Ballmer. https://youtu.be/KMU0tzLwhbE https://youtu.be/KMU0tzLwhbE
- boogies 6y agoThe lowest quality of comments and the highest quality comment. Take my upvote now and I might come back when I earn downvote.
- harry8 6y agoThe correct question is "which do you think Apple cares about least?" They care about market power very deeply so they don't have to care. Where are you going to go? Google? Doing the exact same thing. Neither? Cabin in the woods territory. Oh for the Nokia N900, right?
- boogies 6y ago> Where are you going to go? Google? Doing the exact same thing. Neither? Cabin in the woods territory. Oh for the Nokia N900, right? The Pinephone is on the frontpage at the moment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24329900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24329900, and the Librem 5 has been several times recently. Maybe not grandma friendly ATM but I wouldn’t call it “cabin in the woods territory.”
- harry8 6y agoI look forward to the day I agree with you and hope it comes soon. The point is we had it. The N900 was it. 10+ years ago. Maybe pine or librem or open moko or whatever will get us back to where we were more than a decade ago. I really hope so.
- andruc 6y agoPar for the course with Apple. Apps in macOS never crash, they merely exhibit unexpected behaviours.
- mmastrac 6y agoeg: unexpectedly closing with no message.
- leeoniya 6y ago> unexpected "off-nominal"
- ehsankia 6y agoI don't care if it's not correct, I just like how "non-nominal" sounds.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoIt eventually leads to "rapid unscheduled termination".
- boogies 6y agoEww, not “termination”, that sounds harsh … maybe “exit” or “closure”?
- leeoniya 6y agothe term is "rapid unplanned disassembly" also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_flight_into_terrain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_flight_into_terrain
- marcosdumay 6y agoOh, wait... That linked name is completely reasonable and descriptive. It's not like the others.
- pier25 6y agoApple is an expert in doublespeak.
- thecureforzits 6y agoApple has created for the first time in all history a walled garden of pure ideology, where each worker may bloom, secure from the pests of any contradictory true thoughts.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoApple may have broken the telescreen (as per the famous ad), but they didn't break the wall behind it.
- brosinante 6y agoThis website you’re reading now has “guidelines”, yet no-one is accusing hn of creating a harsher world (at least not in the word they use instead of rules).
- newyorker2 6y ago1. I don't remember paying $99 to have my comments published on HN. 2. A take down of "guideline" breaking comments doesn't impact my income as an app developer.
- coldtea 6y ago>1. I don't remember paying $99 to have my comments published on HN. That's because you pay with your eyeballs (for premium dev/business/startup traffic to YC's posts).
- bhupy 6y agoI’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. This isn’t a misdirection, it’s a euphemism. We use them a lot in the English language, especially in marketing. Whether that’s a good or bad thing is a separate question. IMO policing tone is a mostly uninteresting exercise.
- LudwigNagasena 6y agoIt is not even an euphemism. It is just a way to enforce rules selectively.
- xyclos 6y ago"policy violation" would probably be better language. but since one of the definitions (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guideline https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guideline) of "guideline" is: > an indication or outline of policy or conduct imo "guideline violation" isn't too far of a stretch even if it is technically a "policy violation".
- lallysingh 6y agoIndication or outline isn't a definition of policy.
- robomartin 6y agoBooster? Go flight! Retro? Go flight! FIDO? Go flight! Guidance? Go flight! Surgeon? Go flight! EECOM? Go! GNC? Go! TELMU? Go flight! Control? Go flight! Procedures? Go! INCO? Go flight! FAO? Go flight! Network? Go flight! Recovery? Go flight! CAPCOM? Go flight! Apple App Review Process? <crickets> ... ... Launch Control this is Houston... We are f&#*d... Note: Judging from the response sor far (-4) there seems to be a lack of a sense of humor on this fine Monday morning. Anyone who has locked horns with Apple's app review process knows exactly just how frustrating and sometimes irrational things can get. You can be ready for launch only to end-up in limbo. I have experienced this personally. I think humor is appropriate, even therapeutic at times. If you need to be grumpy, well, be grumpy. I've had enough challenges in life to learn that you have to take things seriously but, at the same time, not miss the opportunity to laugh about it a bit when appropriate.
- bredren 6y agoI think an order would be “it is forbidden.” Which carries a mystic weight and dire consequences.
- usefulcat 6y ago"Rules" would tend to imply consistent enforcement; "guidelines", not so much.
- pvg 6y agoWhat a language! How could "guidelines" ever be "violated"? Rules? Injunctions? Yes. Guidelines? No It's a commonly used expression, there's nothing wrong or strange about it. An example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24175233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24175233
- dang 6y agoYes, I seem to use it a lot: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20guidelines%20violat&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20guideline%20violat&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- pvg 6y agoYou are far fonder of the stout, woody, Anglo-Saxon 'break': https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20guidelines%20break&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- adrianmonk 6y agoIt could be a euphemism, but a more charitable explanation is that they are trying to acknowledge that their rules have a lot of gray area. "Guidelines" could be interpreted as a rule, but a specific type of rule, one that requires more of a judgment call to determine whether it was violated. Ideally rules would be clear and objective. Maybe there are cases where Apple could be better about that, but it's not always possible. For example, one of the rules is to select the appropriate category. I can't imagine how you'd write a rule that perfectly defines proper categorization. Another example is that apps must "use power efficiently", but good luck completely defining what is too wasteful or what is/isn't a worthwhile use of battery power.
- EGreg 6y agoI think the strangest thing of this sort was when Apple rejects your app and the reviewer replies: "It would be appropriate to {{insert fix here}}" which they think will solve the issue for approval. Sometimes the thing seems totally inappropriate to do in any other context. But even if it was appropriate, that is still disconnected from the actual reality that it's required in order to be accepted.
- bluntfang 6y ago>We think we are creating a softer and kinder world This seems like a non sequitur...is Apple claiming this why their use of the word "guideline"? If so, can you show that?
- moogly 6y agoThat quote is rich coming from one of the most cutthroat companies out there.