31 ms·

My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

• rubber_duck 6y ago
  I stopped reading since it's obviously just a rant but this seems like it's about preschool remote kindergarten - clickbaty title
  • dang 6y ago
    We'll swap it out for the subtitle, which is a lot more specific.
• irrational 6y ago
  I honestly couldn't get past the first four paragraphs. The author has... issues. Personally I wouldn't write an article like this to let the whole world in on my neuroticism. It reminds me of the Mark Twain quote "It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt." It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear neurotic than open it and remove all doubt.
  • dang 6y ago
    "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    • double0jimb0 6y ago
      While I 100% agree with the intent of the HN guideline, there are times when calling out crazy as crazy is fully warranted. I believe this is one of those cases. I don’t believe parent comment was a “shallow dismissal”, it was an accurate and “deep” dismissal.
      • dang 6y ago
        "I honestly couldn't get past the" is an internet trope. "The author has issues" is true of everybody. "Neurotic" is calling names in this context [1]. It seems like a shallow dismissal to me. There's another guideline which applies here too: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." Posts about parenting may be the most emotionally triggering of all categories that come up on HN. As readers, we're all responsible for containing the reflexive reactions that come up in us when encountering something intense, and instead of rushing to the comments to dismiss or attack it, waiting awhile until something more reflective emerges, in which case an interesting comment may result. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=reflective%20reflex%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... [1] So is "crazy" for that matter. That's an extreme thing to say, and I'm sure you don't really mean it.
        • monkeywork 6y ago
          Are you a moderator here Dang? If not how about you simply report and move on ... looking at your posting history a very large percentage of it is you trying to tell others how to use the site. The rules are fine however let those who are charged with enforcing them do so rather than trying to control others.
          • dang 6y ago
            Yes, and lord I can't imagine what a dreadful scold those comments would make me if it weren't my job to post them. Sorry for the confusion. We considered putting 'mod' tags beside our usernames but it just felt wrong, so as with most things about HN, people have to figure it out as they go, and it's always ok to ask questions.
          • gammarator 6y ago
            Yes, dang is a (the?) moderator. https://blog.ycombinator.com/meet-the-people-taking-over-hacker-news/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/meet-the-people-taking-over-hac...
  • supergeek133 6y ago
    Yeah, I read it and ended being not sure what it was about. Unless you're going to end with a stance of "but we'll get through it because of COIVD" or "we should go back to school no matter what" I'm a little lost of the point here. Nobody is "doing this" to you, it's what we all have to do.
  • vixen99 6y ago
    Better to keep your fingers off the keyboard than fail to offer a single point of contention while rather unpleasantly abusing the author. I wonder why you even felt the need to comment. Are perceived neurotics open season?
• mc32 6y ago
  If remote learning is leaving a lot to be desired where kids aren’t really getting much benefit academically and it’s stressing people out, is there a possibility to pause education for a year and resume a year from now? Now, I know there is no guarantee there will be an effective vaccine, but if not we may learn enough whether heard immunity is enough by then. Graduating a year later for everyone from K- to-be-seniors in Uni may or may not be much of a big deal. Lots of people take a year off before uni...
  • supercanuck 6y ago
    Sure, but don’t expect other people to follow suit. They will hire private teachers and remote home school to get ahead.
    • supergeek133 6y ago
      That's been the case with or without school.
    • mc32 6y ago
      I guess that may happen for kids who go to private school (public in U.K.) but for kids in public schools, skipping a grade when the schools know their status before the pause might be harder to do. Additionally it’d likely be a minority of students—most would take the opp to remain refreshed and current rather than learning new subject matter.
    • fossuser 6y ago
      Get ahead of what? I’m not convinced any of this remote learning stuff matters that much as long as parents have money to feed their kids and house themselves. Canceling remote learning to spend time with the kids and giving them space to let them learn about something they’re interested in for a year probably does zero harm and might even be beneficial. I would have loved it. Obviously bad family situations, and poverty are not helped by this - but those things are probably made worse by throwing remote learning on top of it. Wealthy countries should have a vaccine and distribution done by end of 2021. Waiting that out is what I would do if I had kids.
• doggydogs94 6y ago
  I expect that the next school year will be a virtual “gap” year. As the author illustrates, anything we do with remote learning is just wishful thinking.
  • organsnyder 6y ago
    Given the amount of brain development that happens at young ages, this is daunting to consider.
    • klipt 6y ago
      Kids spending more time playing outside and some less time on stressful academics is probably good for them. We didn't evolve to sit sedentary in a classroom.
      • Waterluvian 6y ago
        It is just _insane_ how night and day my 3-year-old is in terms of his ability to sit and focus, after he has sufficient "go wild" time in the yard, playground, street, or basement. I'm not sure how much school has changed, but for me, in the 90s, the ~90 minutes (split into three uneven segments) per day of physical activity was just not enough. Could have used half and half.
        • dorchadas 6y ago
          In the elementary schools in my district, kids are lucky if they get 30 minutes of recess a day (more often it's like 15-20), even at kindergarten. It's a huge mess, and we're expecting 5 years olds to behave like 15 year olds. No nap-time anymore either.
      • detaro 6y ago
        I'm worried for the kids that don't get to play outside and/or socialize in such a situation though. Which sadly will exist.
      • lucb1e 6y ago
• supergeek133 6y ago
  I read it and ended being not sure what it was about. Unless you're going to end with a stance of "but we'll get through it because of COIVD" or "we should go back to school no matter what" I'm a little lost of the point here. Nobody is "doing this" to you, it's what we all have to do. Yes it impacts everyone different, but what's the message?
  • dr-detroit 6y ago
    Its a subtle threat that there will be hell to pay if this Brooklyn 5 year old doesn't get on an elite prep school track due to annoying public health needs.
  • dchess 6y ago
    Couldn't agree more. This article fails the "so what" test. What are they recommending be done instead?
• codefreakxff 6y ago
  Wow. Agree with all the other comments. I read the whole article, and there is some next level self-centered entitlement here that has wholly passed on to "Raffi" the 5 year old who is only now learning not to deliberately make his little brother cry, and who has learned that spitting his drink on a laptop makes mommy and daddy take him to the park. While I want to empathize with the parents, the fact that they blame remote learning for all their problems rather than realizing that they have raised a hellion and dumped him on the poor teachers at school... and are bitter that now they have to deal with their own child... wow... yeah, definitely not the parents problem. Everything is to blame on remote learning! We better re-open the schools again so parents don't have to deal with their children!
  • supergeek133 6y ago
    Yeah, I'm really missing the message here.
  • bosswipe 6y ago
    > they have raised a hellion A five year old is far from having been raised. As a parent of a 6 year old I know a bunch of other parents that have similar experiences where their kids are revolting against being forced to sit in front of a virtual teacher for hours every day.
    • Shorel 6y ago
      You can't fix much of that stuff after he is 7 years old. Educate the child so you don't have to jail the adult. At least that's the common wisdom grandmothers say in my country. Some study I found that also mentions the seven-year milestone: https://news.softpedia.com/news/Our-Personality-Is-Fully-Developed-By-the-Age-of-7-151093.shtml https://news.softpedia.com/news/Our-Personality-Is-Fully-Dev...
      • danShumway 6y ago
        The common wisdom is wrong. Of course personalities develop after 7 years old. People's personalities develop well into adulthood. Adults are capable of developing, continuing to mature, and changing their behaviors. Who I was at age 7 is not who I am today. Who I was at age 18 is not who I am today. Do people really think that anyone who fights with a sibling past the age of 7 is destined for prison? I guess I need to start making a plan for when I'm arrested.
• causality0 6y ago
  hit his parents, hit his brother, broke things, and spat a cup of juice all over my laptop. Barring some kind of psychiatric problem like ODD, that's a significant failure of discipline, the responsibility for which lies squarely on the shoulders of the parent. I would not trust any kind generalized behavioral prediction from someone who can't keep a five year old from striking their siblings and intentionally destroying objects.
  • Waterluvian 6y ago
    I thought I was failing as a parent because my 3 year old sometimes _still_ pushes my 1 year old. I feel terrible for the child and for the parent(s) who have created a _lot_ of work for themselves, the child, and maybe even society. But I also feel a wee bit of relief of, "okay so maybe I'm being too hard on myself."
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    • bcrosby95 6y ago
      The late 3's were tough with our oldest. When our twins turned 6 months she totally had it out for the boy twin and would near constantly try to hurt him. It really didn't matter what we did or threatened. 5 minutes after a timeout, or us taking away something she wanted, she would be back at it again. Oh yes, she didn't like timeouts - she would kick and scream and cry during those timeouts. But it didn't matter. All we could really do was make sure they were physically separated as much as possible. That helped a lot. But the times they got close, she usually took advantage and did something to hurt him. E.g. if he was near her path to the bathroom, she would step on his hand while walking close to him. Ultimately, she just grew out of it around 4 years old. But it was a really stressful and unfun time period. She's 5 now, and the twins are 3. She loves playing with them. Until she doesn't of course, but even still - for the past 1.5 years she doesn't want to do anything without them.
  • mumblemumble 6y ago
    I've literally never met a 5-year-old who doesn't do things like this when they're upset. Judging by what was happening on other families' screens when watching my son's online kindergarten last spring, it would seem that these kinds of challenges with the Zoom learning experience certainly aren't unique to my or my friends' families, either. This despite it seeming to me like a particularly happy and cohesive kindergarten class for the first part of the school year. My sense is that that, if you aren't currently trying to usher a preschooler through this experience, you don't actually know how your kid would have handled this situation as a preschooler. And if you are doing it and it is going well, you should count your blessings.
• chiyc 6y ago
  "I even think Raffi might be able to improve his digital etiquette—to get better at waiting his turn to speak without slamming the computer shut because he’s bored, to sit through a lesson without whining or screaming. But is digital etiquette something I want Raffi to learn at age 5? He’ll have the rest of his life to figure out the niceties of interacting with people through a screen. I can’t accept that he should get acclimated to this form of school." The author is almost onto something with this comment. I'm not an expert in this area, but virtual "education" for pre-K seems to miss the point of going to school for a 4 year old child. I would venture a guess that the impact is more about socialization and acclimating to the routine of school than learning things.
  • wink 6y ago
    This honestly has me puzzled. German here, no kids, so not 100% sure how it is today, but to the best of my knowledge it's still 3-5 kindergarden (no idea why you would do this via screen) and then school from 6-7 (depends on birth month, etc). And the "this should be daycare" argument doesn't fly because how would you babysit a 5y old via a video conference? Maybe I'm just old, but I don't see anything wrong in not teaching kids a lot in a structural way before school?
    • dorchadas 6y ago
      Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're misinterpreting what kindergarten is in the States. Kindergarten here is the first year of schooling, and is associated with primary schools. Generally, 5 is the minimum age to start, with a cutoff month. Thus, the kids are expected to be taught in the structural way of school.
      • jnwatson 6y ago
        It is sort of structural. Kindergarten is to help kids transition to the structural aspect of schooling. It is usually very much filled with physical activity and creativity.
• skizm 6y ago
  I'm genuinely curious if we stuck VR headsets on kids, and had the proper software, if their would be any better results. I'm one of the people who think there won't be a VR/AR revolution any time soon, but I do think there are narrow sets of applications and games the benefit A LOT from it. I don't know if education is one of those, but I'm am very interested in finding out.
  • willcipriano 6y ago
    I don't think you'll get kids, particularly young kids to wear those for more than a few minutes at a time.
• function_seven 6y ago
  I'm amazed how dismissive all the comments are here. I read the article and it seems totally normal for a little kid not to be able to do "school" on a laptop. Kindergarten is so much different than later years of schooling. It's not about lectures and subjects, or homework and tests. It's about much more fundamental lessons, interspersed with creativity, socialization, and learning to be separated from your parents. These are fundamental qualities that require physical interaction! You give me the most well-behaved kid, and I'll show you a hellion when I attempt to sit them in front of a boring "remote learning" session for a few hours.
  • coderholic 6y ago
    Me too! We're jugging 3 kids and working from home, and I thought the article was on point. My guess is that most of the dismissive comments are from people without kids!
    • dpcan 6y ago
      I have 4 kids. I work from home. My wife works 11 hours a day away from the house. I feel like this world is full of "can't" people who aren't willing to do the extra work. We seem to have enough time to comment on Hacker News. To argue about masks on Facebook. To watch every TikTok, and spend hours on Twitter. But put in the necessary work to make learning at home productive. Nope, can't do that. We have put in the work at our house to make e-learning possible, and it can be effective, and kids can focus, and kids can wear masks, and kids CAN still LEARN during difficult times - but it takes sacrifices from parents, be it sleep, entertainment, our phones, TV, or even time off work and living lean. But I'm ready for it... let's hear some CAN DO stuff from the HN community!
      • coderholic 6y ago
        I don't think the point is it can't be done. I think it's just acknowledging that it's HARD. Both for the kids, and the parents.
        • 6y ago
• actfrench 6y ago
  In my opinion, the issue here isn't virtual learning (the what), the issue is how we are doing virtual learning (the how). We can't use zoom the way we use a physical classroom. It's a totally different medium. I teach a group of kindergarteners online every morning for 3 hours. The first thing we do is make sure their space is set up to allow for movement. They can jump up move, around, wiggle, whatever they want. I also take huge advantage of the screen share feature. If kids have a question about bugs, we look on youtube together for a great bug video. Every morning they get to pick a video on cosmic kids yoga, and then we do cosmic kids together. Considering she's the best kids yoga teacher in the world, we're taking advantage of the online medium to give them the best possible experience. When I read to them, I also screen share, so they can follow along (a much better way to get kids to read a long than in a classroom where I have to hold the book up.). Are there advantages to a physical classroom? Absolutely. Do we live in an age of technology? Yes, this is absolutely true. Let's learn to use these incredible tools well with our kids, rather than just dismissing them because they don't replicate the classroom experience.
  • actfrench 6y ago
    This is how my class is structured and the activities we do. https://www.modulo.app/manishamodule https://www.modulo.app/manishamodule Feel free to share with other teachers if it could benefit them. I"d also be happy to talk to your teacher or anyone else's teacher if they need support on making zoom more engaging. Also, if other teachers have ideas of activities that worked well for them, I'd love to hear! I'll just add that one thing that's been helpful in my group is to try to focus the zoom on social-emotional learning and then do an "independent study" together period where kids work on mastery-based learning apps independently, but with their friends and a teacher there if they get stuck (Math tango is our favorite!). I find kids learn a lot better with the apps then when I teach them a lesson verbally and give them a worksheet. Zoom represents a really interesting challenge for teachers, but there is a lot of gold to be found if you look!
    • zelphirkalt 6y ago
      Zoom does not belong in any classroom, regardless of virtual or physical. It is proprietary software, which has a back track record on privacy and security. It is not free software respecting children's and teachers' rights and freedom. I find the this reliance on proprietary shitty software annoying and absurd. Often teachers barely know manage to cobble together virtual classrooms. They lack information about alternatives and support for setting things up properly.
• tboyd47 6y ago
  I just pulled my own kids out of public school because I can't stomach it either. I can't in good conscience subject my kids to 6 hours of online class 5 days a week. Whether or not you want to judge me for feeling this way or call me nasty names, "psychic torture" is exactly how I'd describe the solution these educators have come up with.
  • syndacks 6y ago
    Educators did not come up with this plan, politicians did by their lack of any sort of COVID response. Do you really think educators want to do remote learning? My heart goes out to all the teachers who have to deal with this. It's as hard on them as it is parents and students.
    • tboyd47 6y ago
      Ah, excuse me, I didn't mean to slight the real educators. I meant the phony ones who think this is a reasonable plan. I agree with you completely. We love the teachers at our kids' school and saying goodbye to them was the hardest part of leaving. They are just as frustrated. But the people who think that this solution is a reasonable one are insane.
      • danans 6y ago
        > I meant the phony ones who think this is a reasonable plan. I'm not sure what you mean by "reasonable", but I've yet to come across a single educator or administrator who thinks remote school is a good thing. They all think it's just the least bad among a set of bad options. Where are you finding educators who think it's actually net-positive and not just an unfortunate reality?
        • tboyd47 6y ago
          I dunno. Somebody had to come up with it. I have no clue who that is.
          • 6y ago
• jdmoreira 6y ago
  The problem is not so much that kids can’t handle virtual education as much as we not being able to care for our kids because we have a jobs. Think about it... Do you think it’s normal for a human child to be institutionalized just because his/her parents are working? Where is their hunter-gatherer band when your kids need it? Nothing about 2020 nuclear family society is normal for a human child. Nothing at all.
  • actfrench 6y ago
    Exactly. Academic education (subject mastery and developing tools to learn), childcare (being safe and happy and engaged while parents are working) and social learning (making friends, learning to work/collaborate with a group) are generally bundled together as one concept in a very weird way. As families, communities and as a nation, we need to strive to provide enriching childcare to our kids, great social experiences and quality education to them. Sometimes these things happen at the same time, but they don't have to. And sometimes they are best addressed separately. If we start thinking and addressing them individually, we might find ways to do all of them better.
  • baq 6y ago
    your points seem to be contradicting each other. hunter gatherers would naturally have institutionalized child care - when some people go gathering, some people go hunting and some people stay put and look after the tribe's children if they aren't ready to do either. this is about as far from a nuclear family as you can get though, especially if the tribal culture isn't monogamous and e.g. a child can have many fathers who equally accept a child as theirs.
    • jdmoreira 6y ago
      Until very very recent times a child would accompany the parents in their daily activities and help.
    • bluntfang 6y ago
      how do the children learn how to pick up roles as a hunter and/or gatherer in the system you portray?
• dj_mc_merlin 6y ago
  All of these comments make me think HN has never interacted with a 5 year old. Adults are barely able to make it through a day of Zoom meetings without feeling drained, how do you expect an almost toddler to react when forced to sit in front of a screen? The only reasons adults can do it is years and years of learning impulse controls and suppression of bad emotions for everyone's good. A 5 year old does not have these skills, and will obviously act out as they have no other mechanism of dealing with it. Also, who said that this article has to have a point? The writer never claims to propose a solution, she is simply writing out her emotions for others to hear. Assuming she has been largely isolating, is it all that weird that she would talk about her experiences online?
  • MisterBastahrd 6y ago
    I have two 7 year olds and a 9 year old. They are taught a remote curriculum, supplemented by homework in the form of online quizzes that reward correct answer with turns at a video game. They LOVE doing this homework, which is every bit as rigorous as the homework done via paper sheets, because it rewards them for getting their answers right in a way that a number at the top of a page never would. And they get their homework done quicker since procrastinating just keeps them from playing the games.
    • somethoughts 6y ago
      Just out of curiosity what is the online quiz app? Is it Prodigy (www.prodigygame.com)?
      • MisterBastahrd 6y ago
        Prodigy is one of them. My 9 year old loves it because she gets to use her homework answers to get her flair for her character in the game.
    • elliekelly 6y ago
      This is interesting. I’ve been using the “fluent forever” method to learn a second language and one of the things it really stresses is the importance of immediate feedback. It makes perfect sense - it’s much easier to understand your mistake and correct it in the moment. But I’d never thought about it in the context of homework. It almost seems silly that we expect kids to wait a full 24 hours or more to find out whether they’ve done a math problem correctly or not.
• sologoub 6y ago
  Personal counter-anecdote. When I was I think about the same age (5-6), my mom would take me in the office and occasionally my only entertainment would be a DOS computer with a few basic games. From what I’m told, I was very motivated to get to the said games and quickly learned commands and my way around the command line - skill that turned out to be pretty useful in life. For “Raffi”, being a true digital native and having command of all of these communication nuances could be quite valuable in life. Who knows, maybe the “drained” experience his parents have won’t translate to him in the future because it will be second nature. I do fear for the skills of reading a physical book though...
  • lucb1e 6y ago
    > I do fear for the skills of reading a physical book though... Do you need skills for that which are different from reading a computer screen? I only see limitations like no ctrl+f or hyperlinks, so fewer skills needed rather than more.
    • mmm_grayons 6y ago
      While there are certainly advantages to digital reading, there's also something to be said for a traditional book. Patience and sustained attention are developed skills, and we have yet to learn what effects a failure to practice them at a young age may have on a developing brain.
      • lucb1e 6y ago
        Ah, so it's not about reading a book versus some other medium, it's about patience and sustained attention because a book won't have notifications and pop-ups. Alright, then we're on the same page :)
      • deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
• actfrench 6y ago
  Here's a crazy idea: What if we raised our children to process their difficult emotions instead of suppress them and stay active and move freely while working and studying (instead of sitting in a chair at a desk)
  • maps7 6y ago
    I feel I would thrive in a movement based work environment. I think and articulate much better when walking.
    • dageshi 6y ago
      If I had infinite money, I'd build an office on an entire floor, with the desk in the middle and a kind of walking track around it that I could do circles on, sometimes I just really have to walk.
      • paulcole 6y ago
        Thinking you need infinite money to go for a walk is peak HN.
        • dageshi 6y ago
          No, it's peak UK, the chances of the weather being agreeable for me to go for even a 5 minute walk without it pouring down are not good for much of the year.
          • paulcole 6y ago
            I live in the Pacific Northwest where it’s a similar climate. I know we don’t get much right here in the US but we have invented raincoats!
      • megameter 6y ago
        Try floor sitting. It's not perfect in the summer months since you get less airflow around the legs, but it lets you move a little and stretch as you think which is very healthy. Dozens of postures possible. It can be done cheaply, cheaper than a "normal" desk setup: 1. Folding floor desk(ideally taller and wider than a breakfast tray so there is leg room) 2. Lap desk for peripherals. This makes computer interactions ergonomic, no more hunching or reaching. 3. Floor chair/backrest so you can recline and get some back support in long sessions. Plus all of it can fold compactly so it works well in a limited footprint.
• pyzon 6y ago
  I can't help but feel that many of the dismissive comments here must be either from folks without kids, or from people that got lucky with a well-mannered child. You think those good manners were all your amazing parenting? You probably deserve some credit, but I think you also lucked out more than you realize. Haven't you seen parents with multiple kids and those kids have wildly different dispositions? I urge you to have more empathy with parents and kids. Kids handling remote learning badly is such a pervasive complaint right now that it defies logic that all of these parents are bad parents.
  • james_s_tayler 6y ago
    Ah... this. So much this.
  • codingdave 6y ago
    > Haven't you seen parents with multiple kids and those kids have wildly different dispositions? Agreed - I have three kids. One is going to her school in-person. Another sits on the couch on his laptop for 4 straight hours until he gets his work done, and refuses to take a break. The last one works in 20-30 minutes sessions, doing screen time, then taking a break. If I were to force any one of them to work like the others, it would go badly. Different people, different ways to work.
  • icelancer 6y ago
    Yep. There's variance. I have one kid who can crush online classes sporadically and do tons of heads-down work with minimal supervision and is just six years old. The other one is almost ten and is on ADHD medication, has borderline personality disorder issues, and while very intelligent, has problems with authority and can't focus online very well. There's a huge randomness factor that goes into everything, including having kids. It's not deterministic.
  • pm24601 6y ago
    I so agree. My youngest was proud when they came home with "red lights". The other child was devastated when the teacher looked at her cross-eyed. The youngest one is very very indifferent to peer pressure. They don't give a sh!t what anyone else in their classroom thinks of them.
• actfrench 6y ago
  A glaring irony for me here is that historically, wealthier families have significantly more access to online courses. Rather than being the great force for democratization of education we all hoped for, research shows they are privileging the elite. What if we worked to expand access to online courses and improve them for all? https://edlab.tc.columbia.edu/blog/18957-MOOCs-Are-Not-the-Social-Mobility-Tool-We-Hoped-For https://edlab.tc.columbia.edu/blog/18957-MOOCs-Are-Not-the-S...
  • mcny 6y ago
    > What if we worked to expand access to online courses and improve them for all? I'd really like for everyone to have a home Internet connection that is symmetric gigabit or better. For some reason, in at least one town in the US, you can get Comcast Internet access that is gigabit down but only 30 mbps up. This is not good enough when you have multiple people who are trying to do things online at the same time. It is all fine if all you're doing is streaming movies/music (downloading)_but uploading videos or conference calls by video means we need decent upload as well. I don't see a solution other than fiber to the home. Would love to see municipal fiber to be honest.
  • Nasrudith 6y ago
    Working to expand and improve is a worthy goal. I believe before the lockdown it remained an under invested niche for those not suitable for the existing schooling like outright remote (rural to even rural), very ill children, or those who had especially severe social issues from the "Lord of the Flies/prison run by the prisoners dynamic" dysfunctional norm structure of schools and bullying. It was viewed as the worse option especially for corner cases before it got forced into primetime at scale. On a side note you clearly didn't mean it in the negative sense but the rhetoric of "arbitrary option for improvement technology/advance is privileging the elite" bugs me as very zero sum. If any ammount of additional resources can yield at least a smaller edge then by definition the elite can perform better. The only alternative to that situation category is "no additional human effort can help". The framing in effect spitefully disregards the masses of "non-elite" both within and without access to the option and implicitly dismisses anything which helps because another gets helped more.
• actfrench 6y ago
  "forced to sit in front of a screen" is the key phrase here. What if we didn't force them to sit, but allowed them to stand and move about freely, come and go when they please, have some autonomy and decision making power around what goes on in class (e.g. share preferences for what they want to learn) and give them frequent movement breaks (a good set of headphones, an ipad with a wide lens attached allows that). What if we engaged them more so they were excited to see what was happening on their screen? Kids aren't any more excited to sit and do something boring than we are. The key problem here(and it's not a small one) is that we need to give ALL kids access to this hardware to support their learning, not just a few. Right now only 18% of US households have a device. I've seen school districts short 20,000 computers.
  • somethoughts 6y ago
    A balance ball seems to be working better than a hard wood chair was for the seven year old to handle 3-4 hours of Zoom. Posture is much better too. Also trying to figure out how to throw up the Zoom conference on the TV. I think it'll probably be much more natural for the kids.
    • crooked-v 6y ago
      Google Chrome and macOS can both do desktop mirroring (to a Chromecast device or Apple TV respectively), so then you just need a webcam with a long cable you can stick on top of the TV.
  • elliekelly 6y ago
    Yes and I’d even go so far as to say I‘m not sure the “screen” really has much to do with the difficulty. I had a hard time sitting and paying attention in class 25 years ago. All of my teachers “solved” this by putting me in the front row so they could keep an eye on me and remind me to sit again. But my 3rd grade teacher gave me a desk in the back row so I could sit in my chair, sit on my desk, or stand without bothering the other students. It turned out I could pay attention when I wasn’t forced to assume the learning position.
  • jonahbenton 6y ago
• fredguth 6y ago
  As a parent of a 5-year old myself, it strikes me the lack of empathy in the HN community. The pandemic is a challenging situation for all parents as there is not enough information to decide on the best course of action. IMO, the OP article intention was only to share the pain, so that other parents know they are not alone in this challenge.
• rolph 6y ago
  there were these PBS programs called sesame street, the electric company and even one actually called zoom. there was little problem with user engagement as the kiddies were glued to it, and assimilated/imitated the concepts quite readily into playtimes and IRL. perhaps there is a feature set that could be explored and employed in remote learning scenarios. i think that current educators could learn a lot by looking back at the methods of engagement.
• actfrench 6y ago
  It's slightly amusing to me that people are upset kids are "forced to sit still" in zoom as if the didn't have just as much trouble being "forced to sit still" in traditional classroom environments. The big difference is that parents weren't around to see how much suffering this very unnatural forcing of kids to sit still was causing them. A lot of schools have 30 minutes of recess if they're lucky. All kids, especially kinesthetic learners need to be able to move to learn. It's part of the process.
  • TaupeRanger 6y ago
    It's very clear that you have some weird grudge and have never actually set foot in an elementary school classroom, where kids are very frequently moving around and active. Talk to literally any elementary school teacher.
  • Miraste 6y ago
    While I agree with your broader point, kinesthetic learning isn't real [0], and modeling education on the idea of learning styles can be harmful [1]. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/the-myth-of-learning-styles/557687/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/the-myth... [1] https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2019/05/learning-styles-myth https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2019/05/learning-sty...
    • lowbloodsugar 6y ago
      VARK might not be real, but ADHD is and if someone attempts to force my youngest to sit still it doesn't go well for anyone. OTOH let him move while setting boundaries has worked wonders.
• learc83 6y ago
  Kids can't learn all day long in a classroom. I don't know why we expect them to be able to do it remotely. School has always been 1/3 learning 2/3 baby sitting. When my parents were kids, they only went to kindergarten for half a day.
  • floren 6y ago
    > When my parents were kids, they only went to kindergarten for half a day. Wait, hang on, is kindergarten all-day now? I was in kindergarten in... 1992, and it was half a day.
    • edgyquant 6y ago
      Yes I was born in 92 and it was all day when I went.
    • inerte 6y ago
      My son's school changed to full day this year (Los Gatos, CA area) - but I think all the other schools in the district were full day already. When he did Kindergarten few years ago, it was for half a day.
    • jdofaz 6y ago
      Arizona does not fund full day kindergarten
    • lhorie 6y ago
      It's half day in SF (source: daughter is in lafayette). Private pre-K can be full day (it's basically glorified daycare).
    • michaelbuckbee 6y ago
      This isn't to the actual study (which I'm having trouble finding), but to the NEA's policy brief on all day kindergarten. https://www.nea.org/assets/docs/18001_Full-Day_Kindergarten_Policy_Brief-final.pdf https://www.nea.org/assets/docs/18001_Full-Day_Kindergarten_... The TL;DR being that all day Kindergarten is strongly associated with better educational outcomes. As a result, many districts are moving towards full day.
• einarfd 6y ago
  A lot of people complain about Zoom fatigue, and while on one hand I'm fairly happy that it is a competitors offering that has ended up with being a part of that moniker, and not the product I'm working on, it is somewhat unfair to blame Zoom or the software stack for that. The main culprit for messing up meetings are the cameras and the microphones on laptops. I'm not sure if there are any vendors at all, including Apple which is the laptop vendor I use, which has god quality camera and microphones on their kit. I'm lucky enough to work in a group where everyone has dedicated video conferencing kit, and this makes a big difference. The quality gap between someone on system with proper camera and microphones, and someone calling in on laptop is huge. I get that not everyone can go out and buy dedicated kit, and maybe the dedicated kit don't work with you video conferencing vendor. But getting the people you work with on a decent USB camera with inbuilt microphones, is something everyone should have a look at. The chances are high it will make your days more pleasant. When It comes to five year olds doing schooling over video conferencing. I'm far from an expert on kids, I don't have kids and I don't want kids. But it does sound to me like a fools errand, and I'm super happy I'm not going to participate in that nightmare.
  • CydeWeys 6y ago
    You can buy a top-of-the-line $3,000 16" Macbook Pro and it comes with a garbage-tier 720p webcam that has terrible dynamic range and low-light performance. It's embarrassing. Most Windows laptops at a third of the price have significantly better webcams.
    • ghaff 6y ago
      I assume thinness is part of the problem--my high-end Logitech webcam is about an inch thick. Also webcam quality was probably just not much of a consideration until fairly recently. But, even if someone doesn't more or less set up a studio as I've done to a degree and some of my colleagues have done, there are some pretty basic things related to lighting and webcam height that can be done pretty easily by most people. Though I'd add that comms problems are also a frequent annoyance and there's not a lot people can do there. I'd add though that I normally move around my house when I'm working. Sitting at a desk all day in a "studio" doesn't really work for me.
• Animats 6y ago
  "Virtual pre-kintegarden?" That's childcare, not education.
  • visarga 6y ago
    Yes, agreed, but parents are desperate. Kids need kids to play with, at least they see other kids on the screen. It's a really unfortunate situation for the development of small children.
• learc83 6y ago
  Most studies show that unless kids come from low income families the differences between kids who go to pre-k and kids who don't are gone by 3rd grade or so. And for low-income kids it's only advantageous if it's "high quality" preschool. I can't for the life of me figure out why you would bother putting your kid through 6 hours a day of virtual pre-k, when you have to be right there to watch them anyway.
• btilly 6y ago
  There are very practical techniques for addressing these problems. However they aren't widely known. For example if you want to keep a kid still to listen, give them something good to fiddle with. For example, teach kids how to finger knit. And then have them do simple finger knitting while they are listening. The finger knitting is an outlet for the ansies, and they are able to pay better attention, for longer. You also have to be more cognizant of kid limitations when you have less feedback. But we haven't done that. We have kept the same schedule. It is easier to miss a kid acting out over Zoom. And the combination is bad. We really need to tell kids to get up and do jumping jacks, come back in 15 minutes with milk and cookies.
  • bollu 6y ago
    This is very interesting. What other techniques exist, apart from finger-knitting which are unobtrusive and help as an outlet?
  • dorchadas 6y ago
    > We really need to tell kids to get up and do jumping jacks, come back in 15 minutes with milk and cookies. Honestly, in my opinion we need to do this at school still, especially elementary level. We're expecting too much out of these kids, even when they're in the classroom, and it's no wonder we're seeing a rise in issues. Let the kids be kids, give them longer than 30 minutes of recess (if they even get that anymore!), give them naptime still, etc. I'm generally against charter schools (being a high school teacher myself), but man, I wish I had the funds to start a charter elementary school. There's so much I would change.
• dec0dedab0de 6y ago
  Here's a crazy idea. Maybe 5 years old is too young for formal education to begin with.
• whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  Don't see how being "forced to sit in front of a screen" is any different from being forced to sit in a classroom. Honestly think if a single good thing comes out of all of this it will be the rethinking of schooling. If I have kids no way will I risk their raw potential at the hands of what is currently considered a teacher.
  • bluntfang 6y ago
    >Don't see how being "forced to sit in front of a screen" is any different from being forced to sit in a classroom. Really? I mean, I'm not for public schools, but this is a little obtuse don't you think?
    • whywhywhywhy 6y ago
      My point is the whole thing of wanting kids to sit down and be quiet is flawed. Look at how much we medicate kids just to sit there nicely and be quiet and don't fidget in a class, follow the justification backwards and all you get to is that schools don't know how to deal with how young boys deal with boredom. School should teach real skills, how to do your own research and how to create something from nothing and the rest will fall into place.
• turtlebits 6y ago
  5 is a crucial age in child development. Get offline and home school. Take a leave of absence if you really have to. Talk to your employer.
  • nxc18 6y ago
    That's nice and great advice for parents who can afford that. Unfortunately most parents aren't in a position to do that. I know my parents growing up would have been in a world of hurt if they had to home school - it was hard enough making ends meet as it was. This situation is going to really entrench and amplify socioeconomic inequality - for the first time in generations we could see a world where only the very wealthy/privileged are able to give their kids a good education. FWIW 'leave of absence' isn't really a concept for many, many jobs.
• vinbreau 6y ago
  My daughter started Kindergarten and we're doing remote learning. She' almost 5 years old and can work a computer for the things she needs. But she can't work a zoom meeting. So I am a teacher's asst. from 8am until 2:30 pm. It's exhausting and sometimes I take a 2 hour nap afterward. It's hard on her because until a few weeks ago she would wake up, come into my office with me and watch shows on a laptop, maybe play some Minecraft. Now I wake her up instead, and prep her for school, which is in the same office she used to have fun in. She has been adjusting slowly, but it has not been without breakdowns on all our parts.
  • megablast 6y ago
    You have trained your 5 yo to just watch shit on the laptop?? And you think that’s all perfectly fine?? Wow.
  • philsnow 6y ago
    Depending on the state, education isn't compulsory until 6 or 7 years. Would it be an option for you to just hold off on the structured approach for another 6-12 months and let her play?
    • asldkjaslkdj 6y ago
      That's a scary prospect considering all the studies and news articles that say that putting your kids in school as early as 4 can result in life-long benefits. It's hard to be a parent these days, you feel like nothing you do is ever "right".
      • war1025 6y ago
        > putting your kids in school as early as 4 can result in life-long benefits. Giving a shit about your kids is mainly what results in life-long benefits. The sad truth is a lot of parents either don't care about their kids or care about them only as a proxy of how it reflects back on them.
        • 6y ago
• mmm_grayons 6y ago
  I'd agree it would be extremely rare to find a child who does well with virtual school. The obvious question is, "What is the better option?" The clinical, disconnected nature of any return to a physical classroom will result in many of the same disadvantages as virtual school from home. All it does is basically transfer the burden of child care. This is a difficulty every parent currently faces, and this article would be a lot more valuable if it proposed a better option.
• enobrev 6y ago
  A good friend of mine who works in the NYC public school system had, what I thought to be, an excellent idea for how we could handle this situation. All children of designated [minimum age / grade level] take classes remotely. The schools then re-open for children beneath that age who need the attention and dedicated professionals to help them learn, spread out in all the now-free classrooms that were taken by their upperclassmen.
• swayvil 6y ago
  I'm a general contractor. I remodel houses. A few years ago I worked with an extremely good painter. Second generation professional painter. Very impressive fellow. Just by working with him my painting skills went up a couple levels. I'm way better than I was. There was no formal instruction. No teaching. Just working together. Seeing how he does things. Watching him with a brush. The same thing just recently happened with a drywall guy I worked near. A superpro. I am MUCH better at mudding drywall now. No instruction occurred. Just by working near him. This is an ancient and well-known phenomenon. Call it psychic communication. Call it mind-melding. Whatever it is, it's real. And this virtual education is a joke. PAINFULLY bullshit. I advise all students to blow that time-wasting shit right off.
• M277 6y ago
  It's much, much worse in third world countries. Egyptian here. Tech illiteracy is rampant, and many people don't know even the basics of using computers. Not only that, but due to poverty, most don't even have computers and just use mobile phones. For many, this was the first time they got to use a PC/Laptop. A large group just used mobile phones, though. Then you have the internet... it's just not usable for live conferencing, so when they tried it, it was awful.. then the classes were recorded, with low quality and resolution to have small filesizes for private schools. Most public schools basically did away with the whole thing and the kids didn't get any classes at all. On top of all of that, the educational system (regular education, not the higher education) here is already bad in-class. In the end, they just decided to cancel the exams, and had the students do a pass/fail research paper about a topic. Although most schools basically just made everyone pass. Universities were differently handled, though. Also, grade 12 was handled regularly (the students already don't attend school) with regular physical exams since it's an important year.
• rspoerri 6y ago
  Funny, the kid is behaving like the parent. Where could that come from?
• war1025 6y ago
  My wife said the years she was home schooled they did school for about two or three hours a day because that was all that it really required. I wonder if virtual school would be better shooting for that model. Get rid of the "dead time". Just teach the lessons and adjourn.
• Legion 6y ago
  My wife teaches 1st grade. Online instructional hours doesn't begin in their school until 1st grade. Kindergarten has learning materials sent to the homes. Online virtual pre-K is just lunacy.
• karaterobot 6y ago
  I sympathize with her difficulty, but this article struck a bad tone for me. I think it was the tone in which it was written, but it seemed really self-centered. Everybody is in the same boat right now, but the author makes it sound like her family is being uniquely imposed upon. The situation is bad, and schools are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
• tghw 6y ago
  1. Online learning is a poor substitute for classroom learning. 2. Online learning is much harder on parents and kids. 3. We're in the middle of a pandemic, in a country that has handled it very poorly. 4. Israel tried opening schools in May, when their daily new cases were at an all time low. New cases skyrocketed after opening schools [1], with nearly 50% of new cases being traced back to schools[2]. 5. Closing schools in the spring is estimated to have saved 40,000 deaths in the US[3]. At that time new daily cases were significantly lower than they are now. Unfortunately, classrooms undo a lot of the measures that have kept new daily cases from going significantly higher. They create contacts between families that would not have been in contact otherwise, and as new data comes out, it's clear that children are just as contagious as adults. With what we know, as hard as it is, I don't see how we can proceed with opening schools until new daily cases are much more contained. The alternative is to have a massive spike in new cases, have schools close again, and be in the same position with online learning, but with many, many more cases out there. [1] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ees8MesX0AAbDE2?format=png&name=900x900 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ees8MesX0AAbDE2?format=png&name=... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/israelis-fear-schools-reopened-too-soon-as-covid-19-cases-climb-11594760001 https://www.wsj.com/articles/israelis-fear-schools-reopened-... [3] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2769034 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2769034
• golemotron 6y ago
  Daycare has been a part of public education since the beginning. As they separate, people will be shocked at small the education part is.
• argc 6y ago
  My daughter is only 1, and has gone to daycare through the entire pandemic, but I can say with near certainty that if she was a few years older, I would rather hire a nanny to take her to the park everyday rather than put her in a virtual kindergarten class. It sounds absolutely awful and pointless. I don't see how a child could learn anything from it.
• entitledParents 6y ago
  I do love how entitled parents are. WAHHHHHH. I want a free babysitter for my children that I can't stand to be around. WAAHHHHH.
  • annoyingnoob 6y ago
    Its about educating the kids, not babysitting. I expect my kids to learn something at school and socialize. Little kids especially do better in groups where everyone does the same thing, distance learning is a real tragedy for these kids. The kids are just reacting to a situation that is out of their control and they can't fully understand. Its really hard for parents/caregivers. We have to tag-team it at my house where we have mom or grandma during the day and dad at night. My son will spend 5 hours fighting you over 5 minutes of simple work that he can easily do - when he decides not to do it there is nothing that will motivate him, no reward great enough, no consequence harsh enough. Its easy to judge others but you never know what your future might hold.
• anonytrary 6y ago
  We don't understand education at all. I'm seriously worried for the current cohort. Young children are missing the necessary face-to-face learning and social relationship-building that being in class provides, but it doesn't stop there. Some fresh college students are now paying full-price for 100% online classes, completely missing the college experience in the process, probably getting a subpar education -- if you're gonna play the "college is a normalized scam" card, then now is the time. It's a shame what is happening, and it's not really clear how to fix the problem. How to safely maintain the social needs of humans during a pandemic is currently an unsolved problem, and no, Zoom isn't the answer. We'll probably see heightened suicide and crime rates for the duration of the lockdowns.
• gverrilla 6y ago
  our society is now learning to respect sexual orientation, women, trans, other cultures and ethnicities, but children everywhere are just treated like slaves or worst. When I was around 9 I made an oath to never lie to myself and others and pretend "school time" was fun. It was a fucking prison, and I hated it. We are still in Middle Ages.
• sabujp 6y ago
  I think quick sessions in smaller groups or even 1:1's are better. Give the kids their tasks/activities to do for the day and get out of their way. Some administrations seem to have ridiculous requirements that say kids have to be glued to a screen for X hours a day.
• djsumdog 6y ago
  The schools need to be open. Child abuse ER visits are up 35%[0]. Let that sink in. If a child goes to the ER for abuse, it's not because they have a black eye. They likely have broken bones, or are unresponsive. Thirty-five percent! Schools provide surveillance into things like child abuse, the need for hearing aids, the need for speech therapy classes .. and school lunches provide nutrition standards for many underprivileged children. All of that in gone. I know plenty of friends who taught on-line University classes prior to 2020 who told me the students cheat and the courts are pretty much bullshit. You get out of any program what you put into it, and college students have the ability to put things into their programs. Children needs socialization with other human beings. The threat to children is minuscule. The threat to teachers under 40 years of age is also not great. We can pay the wages of older teachers and help them find new roles, quickly remove teachers who become CoV2 positive and find means to keep the schools open. Closing down schools is the worst idea possible. [0]: http://adam.curry.com/enc/1593719588.319_scottatlasonschoolshutdowns.mp3 http://adam.curry.com/enc/1593719588.319_scottatlasonschools...
  • shakna 6y ago
    Israel saw a clear correlation between schools opening, and the spread ofthe virus, in a way that affected the entire country. [0] The threat is not negligible. Students act as carriers, like they always have, and then the super-spreader event occurs through teacher and staff contacts, who take it with them and continue the spread. That's without speaking about transport. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavi...
  • kumarvvr 6y ago
    Isn't it sad that as a society, it has come down to schools to provide security to children, as opposed to their own family. I think the root cause is the fragmented family system in the US. Marriages and divorces happen so much that the ultimate sufferers are the children. A society that is so fragile socially, will eventually collapse.
    • scottlamb 6y ago
• ponker 6y ago
  I don’t think distance learning should exist for kids under 12 or so. Pandemic has shut schools? Have them group into pods of 6 and go to a different family’s house every day and just play.
• ponker 6y ago
  All of this is stupid. For kids too young to distance learn, group them in fours or sixes and send them to one of the family’s houses to spend all day doing whatever the fuck they want. You’re not going to teach them math over Zoom.
• africasiaeuro 6y ago
  We went through this since Covid-19 started. What we found was that a virtual classroom has a lot of flaws. For our 8 year old - who is highly intelligent - the virtual classroom was a disaster. Though he is an outstanding student, he simply refused to comply with homework assignments. Writing short observations in particular was a disaster. He became extremly agitated and simply refused to complete the assignments. He was arguing his case with us and the teacher, trying to explain that the scenario given in the assignment does not exist as a result he won't comply. It was hell to get him to do something he did not see as real. The continuous stress created by the Covid situation certainly was partially responsible. Our own assessment: We prefer to send him to a real classroom. Home virtual schooling can not be a substitute for the real thing. AfricAsiaEuro
• arkanciscan 6y ago
  Watching parents realize that taxpayer funded daycare is the only thing making parenting tolerable has been my favorite part of the pandemic. It almost makes up for the taxes. Downvotes make me laugh harder!
• 29athrowaway 6y ago
  Zoom is not a replacement for a classroom. You can switch tasks from Zoom to something else, like a game, web browser, or any other distraction. But in some ways, Zoom could be better. You can mute people that interrupt the class, or simply remove them from the meeting, preventing them from disrupting everyone else. And you have a chat where you can keep asynchronous discussions. Yet, schools are far from perfect, and standardization is not necessarily beneficial. The current way students are grouped results in kids with behavioral problems being grouped with well behaved students, to the detriment of both. One group gets their bad behavior reinforced, and the other group gets slowed down and demoralized. It doesn't have to be that way.
• forgotmypw17 6y ago
  I don't have kids of my own, but I know parents, and I was also parented when I was a child. I think part of the problem is that the adult is expected to still put in 40 hours a week while raising a child, which is not easy, especially when you only have 2 parents. I was lucky enough to be raised in a family where one parent stayed home, and it made my childhood so much more richer than if I had gone to kindergarten and followed the standard programs those years. My parents remembered the programs from their childhood, and did not want me in there. I grew up in USSR, but I don't think it's that much different in the U.S. "Public education" teaches kids to conform, submit, normalize, and suppress their own imagination and enthusiasm. I don't think it's worth the "socialization", which can be accomplished in many other ways. But even worse, the conditioning forces children to develop an inner dialogue, something many adults spend the rest of their lives trying to silence. I am grateful to my parents for letting me have quiet time for thinking and reflection when I was a child.
• known 6y ago
  Give your kid a copy of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HowStuffWorks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HowStuffWorks
• timvdalen 6y ago
  Do people here experience a difference in feeling drained between a day of Zoom meetings and a day of regular meetings? This article is the first time I've seen this mentioned. For me, a day of regular meetings is just as draining.
• indigodaddy 6y ago
  Virtual school/eLearning only makes sense for 2nd graders and up. Perhaps some bright 1st-graders could excel, but it really just doesn’t work for any younger than that. This is indeed an unfortunate situation that the world is in for this age group of young learners.
• jamisteven 6y ago
  "we hadn’t paused to think about how jarring it would be for Raffi, who had only recently learned that the people in the TV set weren’t tiny puppets." L M A O
• newshorts 6y ago
  In a way I’m lucky, my daughter is almost 2 so she’s not dealing with long bouts of screen time yet. In other ways I’m having to somehow be two people at once, both entertaining her (because she’s too young to do that independently) and run my meetings finish my work etc. though I suspect I’m not unique. Honestly, I love working from home and taking care of her at the same time, but (as evidence of my posting this at 3AM) I can’t continue this much longer. I have a few more hours of work to do and I need to be up at 8:30AM for a call. Something has to change and I hate to get political but if we’d handled things a bit differently in this country, maybe she’d be back in daycare. Do I want that alternate reality? Absolutely not, but do I need it? ...maybe
• known 6y ago
  Kids learn a lot from Peers;
• apexalpha 6y ago
  Are people really trying to get primary kids to do stuff on Zoom? I mean my nephews had Zoom classes during the lockdown but it was like 1 hour a day, and they got assignments for the next hours. Obviously no one expects kids to sit still behind a laptop for 6 - 8 hours. Anyone expecting a 5 year old to do virtual education has never met a 5 year old. I'm sure off that.
• d_runs_far 6y ago
  It's not just kids - we ran a week long course online for senior military commanders - 4 hours a day of structured discussion, another couple hours per day of self paced - my kid's grade one class was better behaved and more attentive. Impulse control is tough for all.
• kthejoker2 6y ago
  Father of 3 elementary school students (and 1 cute toddler) weighing in with actual experience so far: * Kids have 3 Zoom meetings a day - ~90 minutes in the morning, 30 minutes right before lunch, 30 minutes right after lunch. * My kids may be outliers, but they are great at self-managing their time, pay attention well, seem engaged, seem to enjoy the format well enough. * Classmates seem equally engaged and pliant during meeting times. * Main complaints: technology is still weak overall, curriculum is a little bit too day by day .. But nothing as drastic as the original article.