13 ms·

Dear Apple: Your Services Are No Longer Required

480 points by raydev 6y ago

moksly 6y ago
As silly as that firing is, I wonder if Apple has really changed that much in those 13 years. I like that they are trying to produce hardware as sustainable as possible, but if they were really interested in going green, then they probably shouldn’t be trying to sell you a new iPhone every year. I mention this, because it’s another example of how silly they kind of are when you look at it. I think you have to go waaaay back to the garage days to find an Apple that wasn’t the Coca Cola of computers/phones/tablets/iPods. Not sure where you’re going to find a major company that isn’t kind of rotten. Most of them just have worse PR.
- grumple 6y ago
  Apple of 13 years ago had just released the iPhone (or was about to release it), so it was a pretty different company.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    Steve Jobs fought with Steve Wozniak about whether the Apple II should have user-accessible parts. Anti-user-access is in the company's DNA.
    - solarkraft 6y ago
      Is there more information about Steve Jobs actively being replaceable parts for business reasons? My impression is that it's one of the first things to compromise on for cleanliness, but there is not directly a design culture against it. The Powermac G4 seems like it was easy to service. Of course it's very easy to imagine that bad serviceability is encouraged by some managers.
      - ncmncm 6y ago
        It goes way back. He didn't want an App store. They had to prove publishers would pay an unconscionable 30% before he allowed it. He didn't want anybody to be able to open a Mac and add memory, or a network card, or anything. Macs had Torx screws, back when nobody had Torx screwdrivers, and they needed have an unusually long shaft, or extension.
    - guenthert 6y ago
      I don't think Jobs was so much opposed to geeks tinkering with their toys, rather he wanted a computer perceived as a solution providing tool for everyone, not as a problem in itself usable only by engineers.
      - rongenre 6y ago
        Apple tried to own the software distribution channel back in the 70's (like they do with the app store). I didn't work out, but I don't think they were ever terribly happy with needing to produce general-purpose computers.
- dgoldstein0 6y ago
  Apple at least has a good track record of making newer iOS wirk on hold devices... I think they go back ~5 years? Same cannot be said for most Android devices.
  - simion314 6y ago
    The excuse that Google shit stinks more so you should enjoy Apple shit. Apple won't sell you a screen,keyboard or chip to fix your hardware, I am waiting to explain to me how this is very green
    - sukilot 6y ago
      "everything stinks" may be true but isn't useful.
      - simion314 6y ago
        Not everything, look at other laptops and desktop computers. You have Android and iOS that stick because of this 2 players not competing(they are happy with current market share and Google and Apple are pushing now on other fronts). With desktop computers we can still replace parts without having to ask approval from someone, we can still install whatever we want and this is because there are more then 2 laptop or desktop suppliers. Also it is not about form factor, yes it is easy to replace parts on a desktop PC but for Apple phones they refuse to give you screens or batteries and they bully people that refurbish parts from broken devices and try to hide repair documentation and software(this is opposite of green)
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  - dathinab 6y ago
    Apple phone are super simple to physically brake accidentally. My definition of premium includes "it's robust so I don't have to worry", their definition of premium excludes robustness. My definition of premium includes straight forward sustainable repairs theirs includes hampering anyone who tries to provide such (they don't).
- scarface74 6y ago
  How are they trying to sell you a new phone every year when they just announced that iOS 14 supports all phones made since 2015?
- dathinab 6y ago
  > produce hardware as sustainable as possible Thy don't. It's not just that they wouldn't try to sell you a new device every year but they also would either provide or allow sustainable repairs. Apple mainly replaces whole components, like the whole motherboard. But many of the damages which causes a motherboard repair with Apple can be fixed by "just" replacing some broken capacitors or some simple chip (simple as in not the GPU/CPU/RAM). Which might sound hard but is very doable/learnable e.g. look at some of Louis Rossmanns videos. There are also frequently problems with Macs one the line of "if this fails this other thinks will fail too and you have to buy a new laptop instead of just living without xxx". I think all their efforts about sustainable production are PR and trying to avoid/preclude regulations.
jrnichols 6y ago
Low End Mac had a poll on their Facebook pages asking if we read the articles. There are now two "articles" that are basically "I don't like Apple anymore" rants. This being one of them. I have a strong feeling that this is also a "there's more to the story" situation.
- NeutronStar 6y ago
  How do you feel about the current PrePear related debacles? Is there more to that story too? Why can't Apple be an evil company?
skygazer 6y ago
The firing for for simply helping a friend seems shocking. I did, however, once know a fellow that did tech support for an ISP, that used his work calls to source his freelance onsite tech support business. Once the main company found out they let him go. Omitted from the article is whether the OP charged for his time. But I can't help but think that either Apple is ridiculous, or we're not hearing the whole story.
- ape4 6y ago
  I don't get it either. Does Apple actually have a policy against doing something that the Store offers?
  - hellofunk 6y ago
    If the story doesn't make sense, that usually means we haven't heard the whole story.
    - emn13 6y ago
      Well, if you assume that an Apple Store cares very little for it's experts, then the story makes sense. Which isn't implausible, right?
    - kube-system 6y ago
      Moonlighting clauses are common. I am not sure what doesn't make sense here. Businesses add them because they: 1. don't want to potentially lose revenue 2. don't want to dilute their brand 3. don't want any liability associated with an employee doing work outside of their officially sanctioned capacity 4. don't want to culturally set an acceptable level of noncompliance with procedure even if the above violations aren't egregious.
      - donor20 6y ago
        Two reasons we have anti-moonlight. Insurance is very concerned about claims resulting from off the clock / third party work related to day time work. So if you are a doctor working in a practice group, and then do freelance work, that is going to absolutely freak an insurance carrier out. Security - people don't realize that a lot of stuff on-premise / on-network is tracked and logged. So if you "help" someone out off-site / off work people get nervous. T-mobile employee doing a sim swap with customer in store on video - sure. T-mobile employee logging in off hours to do a sim swap - maybe sketchier even if they are "helping a friend".
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chrisco255 6y ago
We gotta remain skeptical of all the tech monopolies that are currently in power. As a tech community, I feel we have a responsibility to push for open source and free software (and ideally, hardware as well).
abawany 6y ago
(alert: has spoilers) It was sad to see that he supported and evangelized Apple for 24 years (FTA) and yet they dumped him with nary a thought for helping an elderly neighbor with a data transfer.
- richardwhiuk 6y ago
  Assuming that this story is at all accurate.
- rootsudo 6y ago
  In the end, fitting. Anyone that put companies, people on a pedestal and think they're perfect are in for a rude awaking.
29athrowaway 6y ago
Leopards ate my face. Apple has had a planned obsolence policy for a while now. Memory modules soldered to the motherboard, limiting speed based on battery life, opposing 3rd party repair shops, and many other issues...
- kube-system 6y ago
  Engineering/marketing trade-offs != planned obsolescence Apple supports their devices longer than many of their competitors.
  - mattigames 6y ago
    Then their definition of "support" certainly doesn't matches mine, macOS has a lot of bugs that never get fixed of which I have written before: https://ivanca.tumblr.com/post/615979862803562496/15-flaws-of-the-macbook-pro-and-macos https://ivanca.tumblr.com/post/615979862803562496/15-flaws-o...
    - kube-system 6y ago
      If you find an OS without bugs, let me know.
      - mattigames 6y ago
        The bugs on Windows get fixed, the bugs on MacOS do not, and its the most ridiculous kind of bugs, like mouse freezing when an external turned off monitor is connected.
        kube-system 6y ago
        Like the 2 year old zero-day story posted yesterday? And that aside, MS does EOL products. And if you're frustrated with mouse or video bugs, I'd suggest you stay away from *nix OSes.
        oneplane 6y ago
jasode 6y ago
>I was an Apple employee for nearly 13 years, and I loved helping people get the most out of their Apple products. All of that ended about 6 months ago when Apple showed me its true colors. [...] I told him that yes I had in fact helped a friend with a data transfer (something Apple does for free) and that I had helped him on my own time. He told me that I had just admitted to a major conflict on interest, and that an official investigation in to my actions would now start, two days later I was suspended. Maybe I'm missing some context but it seems like something huge has to be omitted from author's narrative. There's just no way Apple Inc's ~137000 employees are all saying to friends & family, "nope, sorry, I can't help you with your iPhone/iPad/iMac because it's a conflict of interest and I'd get fired."
- baddox 6y ago
  Yeah, I hate to reflexively take the side of a huge corporation here. I don't doubt that Apple has abusive employer relations, but it really does feel like there's something missing from this story.
  - rewq4321 6y ago
    It seems plausible that Apple has a policy against free-lance tech support and they over-applied the rule in this case when he was just helping out a friend - perhaps using work resources in some way (e.g. a work phone was involved).
    - baddox 6y ago
      It's certainly plausible, but it still feels like something is missing. How did the boss hear about this? "Someone told him." This all just sounds so very odd.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        Even so, I can't imagine anyone actually being let go over this as described unless the company was actively searching for a reason to fire them.
vondur 6y ago
So I'm guessing he was like a Genius bar worker or something? I suppose I could see that can be an issue for Apple. If something went wrong and say he deleted all of this persons stuff, and they call Apple and complain about their employee working on his computer, even on his off time, it could be a problem. Seems pretty harsh though.
manigandham 6y ago
This doesn’t seem to be the whole story. Also, unless you’re the founder, a corporation should never be such a big part of your identity.
- dathinab 6y ago
  Except that some of the big companies like e.g. Apple do all kinds of thinks to try to make Apple not just your job but part of your live. Furthermore I have meet with people not employed by Apple which where big Apple fanatics, Apple for them was part of their identity to a non negligible degree. So yes this is totally possible in my experience. Sure a founder is probably even more invested, but then the level of (emotional) investment he show is totally realistic.
- fortran77 6y ago
  That was my first thought. I remember working at Grumman when they had a layoff, and a guy with F-14 Vanity license plates and an F-14 tattoo was laid off. He looked devastated! It's very important not to link your identity to your job (or your computer or your operating system).
_rend 6y ago
As someone who has previously (recently) worked for Apple as a software engineer, I have a feeling there's something more to this story that we don't know about. There's nothing that would indicate to me any sort of conflict of interest in what this person did, and the most I can construe things is that _maybe_ they were a Genius Bar employee, and _maybe_ this would count as a conflict of interest _if_ their manager was really looking for a reason to fire them, but I have a hard time imagining that anyone would go out of their way to investigate this otherwise. Working there, there have been plenty of no-no's that we had to be careful about, and periodic training about conflicts of interest and similar, but helping out family, friends, and acquaintances was certainly not it.
- refulgentis 6y ago
  You're on the verge of an epiphany about how full-time SWEs are treated versus retail employees, but it'll require grappling with the fact its unlikely he made up 100% of the story
  - richardwhiuk 6y ago
    I believed he got fired. And I believe he thinks he got fired for helping an elderly relative. Do I think that's the whole truth? No.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      >About 2 weeks later I was approached by my boss. Someone told him that I had helped a friend with his computer. I told him that yes I had in fact helped a friend with a data transfer (something Apple does for free) and that I had helped him on my own time. He told me that I had just admitted to a major conflict on interest, and that an official investigation in to my actions would now start, two days later I was suspended. It's a very weird story. What normal co-worker runs tattling to their boss that so-and-so had the nerve to help an elderly neighbor that weekend? And major conflict of interest? Was borrowed equipment perhaps involved or...? Yes, I'm sure even Apple retail is sucky but something that he may genuinely think is unimportant seems to be missing from this story.
save_ferris 6y ago
This is what irks me about the “well they agreed to Apple’s TOS so they knew the risks” argument we’ve been seeing regarding their legal dispute with Epic. TOS are written in a way to give their authors the maximum amount of power and leverage over the person or entity they’re working with, regardless of whether or not the terms exceed the spirit of general defensive legal strategy. This guy lost a job because helped someone with some basic computer work, something many of us do with our relatives because they see us as “magicians” or whatever and we enjoy tinkering. It’s hard to imagine what additional context needs to be present in order for Apple to be justified in doing this. Just curious: does Apple maintain the right to disable my account if I talk bad about them online? It wouldn’t surprise me, but I guess I should read the TOS.
- justapassenger 6y ago
  South Park, as often, was on point of that with HumancentiPad episode. It's funny, how 9 years later the problems are not only still there, but at much bigger scale.
- ouid 6y ago
  obviously TOS written by companies wielding monopoly power are bullshit. We've just defined monopoly too narrowly in the law. Is it possible for me to obtain an equivalent product from a competing company? If the answer is no, then you are a monopoly. If your product is not interoperable with other products that you are claiming equivalence with, then your claims at equivalence are invalid.
  - dathinab 6y ago
    I believe monopoly laws should apply to any companies having a "few million" customers and it not being trivial for customers to switch or there not being much choice to switch to. In case of Apple it's neither trivial to switch (you can't move bought apps over) nor is there much choice (in practice it's basically Apple or Google).
    - ouid 6y ago
benbristow 6y ago
Site seems to be down, WBM link here: http://web.archive.org/web/20200818181006/https://lowendmac.com/2020/dear-apple-your-services-are-no-longer-required/ http://web.archive.org/web/20200818181006/https://lowendmac....
aresant 6y ago
To provide some context Ted Hodges, the author of the article, was employed as an Apple Expert (1). An Apple Expert is a ~$20/hr retail job - https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/details/114438150/us-expert https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/details/114438150/us-expert The "boss" he mentions was probably an Apple Store Manager or Assistant Manager. I understand the frustration from Ted but this feels a lot more like a conflict between a mid-level retail manager wielding Apple's general HR guidelines to terminate a retail employee vs. a broader story about Apple hammer smashing a little guy. (1) https://www.facebook.com/ted.hodges.338 https://www.facebook.com/ted.hodges.338
- sukilot 6y ago
  Apple is fully responsible for the behavior of their managers acting in accordance with company policy. What is a company if not the sum of its people?
  - oneplane 6y ago
    That's great in theory, but the personification of a company and the many layers in a large enterprise make it unrealistic to assume everyone is the same, does the same thing, or knows about each other. Doesn't mean bad things aren't bad or good things aren't good, but besides that the marketing and PR departments put out there are more differences than similarities between the people, teams of people and groups of teams in any company.
    - emn13 6y ago
      If your company is structured such that there's no recourse in the event of squabble between a manager and his reports, then your company is bad. If indeed this was just a personal issue with the manager: that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of apple either.
      - oneplane 6y ago
        It doesn't need to be a ringing endorsement, and it doesn't sound like some special Apple-case either. Most companies (especially post-capitalistic American ones) are structured to provide maximum money for the company and/or the shareholders on either the short term or the long term. That's a monster we all created and fed for decades. That means that HR is your friend until they want to get rid of you. And the rules are made in line with that: plenty of options for 'legally' getting rid of people. While I personally think that's just bad for humans, I don't think anyone should still be surprised that that is how it was designed to work.
halfFact 6y ago
Your local nerds warned you. The internet warned you. People need to take responsibility for choosing Apple.
crististm 6y ago
"Anyone who knows me knows that I was among the biggest Apple Evangelists to ever live." Think about this for a second. Is it possible that the 'cult', that by your own words are 'evangelizing', is ever going to turn against you when you make a mistake or do something that they don't agree with? "I believed ... Apple’s mission (or at least what they said their mission was)" - these seems to be the words of someone finally waking up from a trance.
neonate 6y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20200818181027/https://lowendmac.com/2020/dear-apple-your-services-are-no-longer-required/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200818181027/https://lowendmac...
dsspnt 6y ago
If losing the job was not enough, what about a bunch of tech people siding with your enployer saying your are hiding something, not telling the truth
- guenthert 6y ago
  It's not that he necessarily hides something intentionally. There are reasons why a company might want to separate from an employee. HR has to make sure that this employee doesn't sue then the company, so they're fishing for enforceable reasons. It might be bullshit, but if it's legally sound, they'll use it. I think it's a fair bet, that this employee didn't have the best standing with his superior and he might not even have been aware of it.
exabrial 6y ago
Wow Apple can go right ahead and fuck themselves.
aussir 6y ago
I fail to see how this is a conflict of interest by just helping others. Maybe if it was a widnows or linux pc? Even then it's still stupid.
ggggtez 6y ago
Sounds to me like this guy's job is to do repairs. He may even have access to tools/hardware as an Apple Employee that he doesn't have externally. If he used corporate hardware to do the data transfer, then it doesn't matter if he didn't charge the friend. It would still have been a policy violation. Just a guess though.
hownottowrite 6y ago
I’m struggling to understand why the “boss” would call after the dismissal. This is a major HR protocol no-no. In any case, why ditch Apple? Set up an alternative support lane for people with machines out of warranty and clean up $$$
anonymousisme 6y ago
Interesting that this other article on his blog says he left Apple voluntarily: https://lowendmac.com/2020/52259/ https://lowendmac.com/2020/52259/ "After all this time, I cannot wait to see the back of Apple. I ditched iOS a few years back and it was the best decision I ever made, now leaving Apple is going to be the second best decision. I no longer want anything to do with them. My Mac is up for sale and I will be closing my Apple ID. After hundreds of articles and over 10 years of writing for LowEndMac, this is my final article. This is me signing off."
- doodpants 6y ago
  Different author. iTed Hodges vs. Simon Royal.
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cptskippy 6y ago
> In late January I decided to help an elderly friend with a data migration at home. He had just bought a new iMac and needed to transfer the data from his old one to his new one. Apple offers free data transfers, but my friend didn’t want to leave both of his machines with Apple for 3 to 5 days in order for them to do it. About 2 weeks later I was approached by my boss. Someone told him that I had helped a friend with his computer. I told him that yes I had in fact helped a friend with a data transfer (something Apple does for free) and that I had helped him on my own time. The following is a fiction that is also the same story as above: In late January an elderly gentleman, whom I'd helped many times during my long tenure at the Apple Store, came in to buy a new iMac. As I was ringing up his purchase, he inquired about how to migrate his data. I informed him that Apple would be happy to do it for free but it would take 3 to 5 business days, I then offered to come by his house and perform the migration for a modest fee. A few weeks later the elderly gentleman came into the Apple Store asking for me because he was having issues locating some of his files, he spoke with my manager and explained the situation. Later my manager approached me about the issue, I confirmed that I had been moonlighting and had solicited my services while on the clock at the Apple Store.
znpy 6y ago
Can I say that this post feels hypocritical, a lot? It seems to me that the person writing this post has always known about the bad behaviors from Apple, and always looked the other way. Now Apple fired him and he's now complaining because he's not in the "cool kids" club. To that guy I say: you went with the bully for the last 13 years, you kinda deserve all of this.
- tasuki 6y ago
  I feel the same: the bad behavior from Apple somehow wasn't an issue for him while he was being the biggest fanboy and an employee. When he gets fired the bad behavior of Apple suddenly becomes important to him.
donarb 6y ago
Sounds to me he violated the rules by offering free services to the guy WHILE he was in the Apple Store. Otherwise how would anyone else know about it and report it to his boss?
MarcScott 6y ago
> Apple was in my DNA. I believed in Apple’s products, Apple’s services, and Apple’s mission I honestly can't understand such devotion to a corporate entity. I have a preference for Thinkpads, but I don't worship at the alter of Lenovo. Give me a Mac, Chromebook, Dell, Raspberry Pi... whatever, I'll happily use it. Apple is a company, not a sodding religion.
- dewey 6y ago
  > Apple is a company, not a sodding religion. Just like a baseball or soccer club is a company. They can still have fans who keep up with rumors, news and products more than the average.
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aminozuur 6y ago
I have worked for Apple doing Technical Support. The author conviently and entirely skips over which steps he took to 'help his friend'. Apple employees are allowed to help friends, obviously. What you are not allowed to do, is to use Apple's special software tools that is intented only for helping customers during work time. These are sensible rules that protect the privacy or Apple users. I suspect the author had stepped out of line, and neglected those rules.
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  Data transfer to a new Mac is straight Migration Assistant territory. Nothing special, internal, or proprietary about it.
say_it_as_it_is 6y ago
Quite a public relations campaign against Apple these days for doing no more than what every other business is doing. Don't sell to Apple customers if you don't want to pay Apple for their services.
nomorealoha 6y ago
If anything I respect Apple more now. There's a lot missing from the story that I suspect the author deliberately omitted in order. Specifically what sort of backup it was, whether he used software from work, and how much of an observer he was into the data backup process. DATA being the keyword. I respect that Apple treats customer's data with the utmost care, and that includes minimizing techs running around offering their gray-market professional services. Disclosure: I have NOTHING to do with Apple other than owning an iPhone; I do hate when people are flippant about data sensitivity.
catmistake 6y ago
iTed Hodges, sorry that happened. But you seem to be a little passive aggressive. That is only one symptom of a notorious psychological disorder, so it is a shot in the dark here: were there any other social conflicts at work previously? Another symptom is an inability or unwillingness to recognize a problem. Consider a psych eval, it may lead to changing your life for the better. I do not know for certain, but most companies have some sort of review process where you can mount a defense of some kind. Forgive me for this opinion, but it seems like there must have been something else going on, and this did not occur in a vacuum out of the blue. Don't burn your bridges, man. References are important. But it sounds like a sh*t job. You can do better. Keep cool. You will get far more sympathy saying nothing rather than going to war. Who wants someone like that working for them.
techbra 6y ago
Fuck Apple
grayhatter 6y ago
OP doesn't state he helped for free. If he charged the customer (that he met while at work) for the service. That's a HUGE conflict of interest.
- theandrewbailey 6y ago
  I had to re-read the article, but you're right: he didn't explicitly say that he transferred data for free (although he mentions Apple does it for free, twice).
8bitsrule 6y ago
30 years ago I had an Apple (one-button) mouse switch go bad. I was good at electronics and could easily fix in 5 minutes if I could get a switch. (Lived in the boonies.) So I called Apple (this is before 'genius' (hilarious) bars). Me: I want to fix my mouse. Sell me a switch. Apple: We don't sell switches. Me: Why not? Apple: (After pause) It's only an $80 mouse. Not worth it. "Only." That's $135 in today's money. (A better mouse now sells for $7.) I should let Apple charge me $135 to replace a microswitch? You could just watch it going south. It all started when the Mac came out. (The slim II manual had peeks and pokes in it. They actually supported hobbyists and learners.) The Mac dox (think it was 3 huge volumes) had huge lists of names of calls you could make. Just names. Soon the rainbow apple turned to a chrome apple. My next 'Mac' came from Power Computing. Yeah, Apple slipped up and put a gate in the walled garden for a couple years. It worked great for 7 years. At 160MHz. Software got SO much better. So, yeah, I slipped up and got an iMac -- cost me twice what a similar PC would. (But all my music software was for PPC and hardware used serial ports.) That iMac burned me in multiple ways. I thought all that was horrible. Those times were gentle compared to today. RUN AWAY
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480 points by raydev 6y ago

As silly as that firing is, I wonder if Apple has really changed that much in those 13 years. I like that they are trying to produce hardware as sustainable as possible, but if they were really interested in going green, then they probably shouldn’t be trying to sell you a new iPhone every year. I mention this, because it’s another example of how silly they kind of are when you look at it. I think you have to go waaaay back to the garage days to find an Apple that wasn’t the Coca Cola of computers/phones/tablets/iPods. Not sure where you’re going to find a major company that isn’t kind of rotten. Most of them just have worse PR.

grumple 6y ago
Apple of 13 years ago had just released the iPhone (or was about to release it), so it was a pretty different company.
- sukilot 6y ago
  Steve Jobs fought with Steve Wozniak about whether the Apple II should have user-accessible parts. Anti-user-access is in the company's DNA.
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    Is there more information about Steve Jobs actively being replaceable parts for business reasons? My impression is that it's one of the first things to compromise on for cleanliness, but there is not directly a design culture against it. The Powermac G4 seems like it was easy to service. Of course it's very easy to imagine that bad serviceability is encouraged by some managers.
    - ncmncm 6y ago
      It goes way back. He didn't want an App store. They had to prove publishers would pay an unconscionable 30% before he allowed it. He didn't want anybody to be able to open a Mac and add memory, or a network card, or anything. Macs had Torx screws, back when nobody had Torx screwdrivers, and they needed have an unusually long shaft, or extension.
  - guenthert 6y ago
    I don't think Jobs was so much opposed to geeks tinkering with their toys, rather he wanted a computer perceived as a solution providing tool for everyone, not as a problem in itself usable only by engineers.
    - rongenre 6y ago
      Apple tried to own the software distribution channel back in the 70's (like they do with the app store). I didn't work out, but I don't think they were ever terribly happy with needing to produce general-purpose computers.
dgoldstein0 6y ago
Apple at least has a good track record of making newer iOS wirk on hold devices... I think they go back ~5 years? Same cannot be said for most Android devices.
- simion314 6y ago
  The excuse that Google shit stinks more so you should enjoy Apple shit. Apple won't sell you a screen,keyboard or chip to fix your hardware, I am waiting to explain to me how this is very green
  - sukilot 6y ago
    "everything stinks" may be true but isn't useful.
    - simion314 6y ago
      Not everything, look at other laptops and desktop computers. You have Android and iOS that stick because of this 2 players not competing(they are happy with current market share and Google and Apple are pushing now on other fronts). With desktop computers we can still replace parts without having to ask approval from someone, we can still install whatever we want and this is because there are more then 2 laptop or desktop suppliers. Also it is not about form factor, yes it is easy to replace parts on a desktop PC but for Apple phones they refuse to give you screens or batteries and they bully people that refurbish parts from broken devices and try to hide repair documentation and software(this is opposite of green)
      - deleted 6y ago
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- dathinab 6y ago
  Apple phone are super simple to physically brake accidentally. My definition of premium includes "it's robust so I don't have to worry", their definition of premium excludes robustness. My definition of premium includes straight forward sustainable repairs theirs includes hampering anyone who tries to provide such (they don't).
scarface74 6y ago
How are they trying to sell you a new phone every year when they just announced that iOS 14 supports all phones made since 2015?
dathinab 6y ago
> produce hardware as sustainable as possible Thy don't. It's not just that they wouldn't try to sell you a new device every year but they also would either provide or allow sustainable repairs. Apple mainly replaces whole components, like the whole motherboard. But many of the damages which causes a motherboard repair with Apple can be fixed by "just" replacing some broken capacitors or some simple chip (simple as in not the GPU/CPU/RAM). Which might sound hard but is very doable/learnable e.g. look at some of Louis Rossmanns videos. There are also frequently problems with Macs one the line of "if this fails this other thinks will fail too and you have to buy a new laptop instead of just living without xxx". I think all their efforts about sustainable production are PR and trying to avoid/preclude regulations.

jrnichols 6y ago

Low End Mac had a poll on their Facebook pages asking if we read the articles. There are now two "articles" that are basically "I don't like Apple anymore" rants. This being one of them. I have a strong feeling that this is also a "there's more to the story" situation.

NeutronStar 6y ago
How do you feel about the current PrePear related debacles? Is there more to that story too? Why can't Apple be an evil company?

skygazer 6y ago

The firing for for simply helping a friend seems shocking. I did, however, once know a fellow that did tech support for an ISP, that used his work calls to source his freelance onsite tech support business. Once the main company found out they let him go. Omitted from the article is whether the OP charged for his time. But I can't help but think that either Apple is ridiculous, or we're not hearing the whole story.

ape4 6y ago
I don't get it either. Does Apple actually have a policy against doing something that the Store offers?
- hellofunk 6y ago
  If the story doesn't make sense, that usually means we haven't heard the whole story.
  - emn13 6y ago
    Well, if you assume that an Apple Store cares very little for it's experts, then the story makes sense. Which isn't implausible, right?
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Moonlighting clauses are common. I am not sure what doesn't make sense here. Businesses add them because they: 1. don't want to potentially lose revenue 2. don't want to dilute their brand 3. don't want any liability associated with an employee doing work outside of their officially sanctioned capacity 4. don't want to culturally set an acceptable level of noncompliance with procedure even if the above violations aren't egregious.
    - donor20 6y ago
      Two reasons we have anti-moonlight. Insurance is very concerned about claims resulting from off the clock / third party work related to day time work. So if you are a doctor working in a practice group, and then do freelance work, that is going to absolutely freak an insurance carrier out. Security - people don't realize that a lot of stuff on-premise / on-network is tracked and logged. So if you "help" someone out off-site / off work people get nervous. T-mobile employee doing a sim swap with customer in store on video - sure. T-mobile employee logging in off hours to do a sim swap - maybe sketchier even if they are "helping a friend".

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chrisco255 6y ago

We gotta remain skeptical of all the tech monopolies that are currently in power. As a tech community, I feel we have a responsibility to push for open source and free software (and ideally, hardware as well).

abawany 6y ago

(alert: has spoilers) It was sad to see that he supported and evangelized Apple for 24 years (FTA) and yet they dumped him with nary a thought for helping an elderly neighbor with a data transfer.

richardwhiuk 6y ago
Assuming that this story is at all accurate.
rootsudo 6y ago
In the end, fitting. Anyone that put companies, people on a pedestal and think they're perfect are in for a rude awaking.

29athrowaway 6y ago

Leopards ate my face. Apple has had a planned obsolence policy for a while now. Memory modules soldered to the motherboard, limiting speed based on battery life, opposing 3rd party repair shops, and many other issues...

kube-system 6y ago
Engineering/marketing trade-offs != planned obsolescence Apple supports their devices longer than many of their competitors.
- mattigames 6y ago
  Then their definition of "support" certainly doesn't matches mine, macOS has a lot of bugs that never get fixed of which I have written before: https://ivanca.tumblr.com/post/615979862803562496/15-flaws-of-the-macbook-pro-and-macos https://ivanca.tumblr.com/post/615979862803562496/15-flaws-o...
  - kube-system 6y ago
    If you find an OS without bugs, let me know.
    - mattigames 6y ago
      The bugs on Windows get fixed, the bugs on MacOS do not, and its the most ridiculous kind of bugs, like mouse freezing when an external turned off monitor is connected.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        Like the 2 year old zero-day story posted yesterday? And that aside, MS does EOL products. And if you're frustrated with mouse or video bugs, I'd suggest you stay away from *nix OSes.
      - oneplane 6y ago

jasode 6y ago

>I was an Apple employee for nearly 13 years, and I loved helping people get the most out of their Apple products. All of that ended about 6 months ago when Apple showed me its true colors. [...] I told him that yes I had in fact helped a friend with a data transfer (something Apple does for free) and that I had helped him on my own time. He told me that I had just admitted to a major conflict on interest, and that an official investigation in to my actions would now start, two days later I was suspended. Maybe I'm missing some context but it seems like something huge has to be omitted from author's narrative. There's just no way Apple Inc's ~137000 employees are all saying to friends & family, "nope, sorry, I can't help you with your iPhone/iPad/iMac because it's a conflict of interest and I'd get fired."

baddox 6y ago
Yeah, I hate to reflexively take the side of a huge corporation here. I don't doubt that Apple has abusive employer relations, but it really does feel like there's something missing from this story.
- rewq4321 6y ago
  It seems plausible that Apple has a policy against free-lance tech support and they over-applied the rule in this case when he was just helping out a friend - perhaps using work resources in some way (e.g. a work phone was involved).
  - baddox 6y ago
    It's certainly plausible, but it still feels like something is missing. How did the boss hear about this? "Someone told him." This all just sounds so very odd.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      Even so, I can't imagine anyone actually being let go over this as described unless the company was actively searching for a reason to fire them.

vondur 6y ago

So I'm guessing he was like a Genius bar worker or something? I suppose I could see that can be an issue for Apple. If something went wrong and say he deleted all of this persons stuff, and they call Apple and complain about their employee working on his computer, even on his off time, it could be a problem. Seems pretty harsh though.

manigandham 6y ago

This doesn’t seem to be the whole story. Also, unless you’re the founder, a corporation should never be such a big part of your identity.

dathinab 6y ago
Except that some of the big companies like e.g. Apple do all kinds of thinks to try to make Apple not just your job but part of your live. Furthermore I have meet with people not employed by Apple which where big Apple fanatics, Apple for them was part of their identity to a non negligible degree. So yes this is totally possible in my experience. Sure a founder is probably even more invested, but then the level of (emotional) investment he show is totally realistic.
fortran77 6y ago
That was my first thought. I remember working at Grumman when they had a layoff, and a guy with F-14 Vanity license plates and an F-14 tattoo was laid off. He looked devastated! It's very important not to link your identity to your job (or your computer or your operating system).

_rend 6y ago

As someone who has previously (recently) worked for Apple as a software engineer, I have a feeling there's something more to this story that we don't know about. There's nothing that would indicate to me any sort of conflict of interest in what this person did, and the most I can construe things is that _maybe_ they were a Genius Bar employee, and _maybe_ this would count as a conflict of interest _if_ their manager was really looking for a reason to fire them, but I have a hard time imagining that anyone would go out of their way to investigate this otherwise. Working there, there have been plenty of no-no's that we had to be careful about, and periodic training about conflicts of interest and similar, but helping out family, friends, and acquaintances was certainly not it.

refulgentis 6y ago
You're on the verge of an epiphany about how full-time SWEs are treated versus retail employees, but it'll require grappling with the fact its unlikely he made up 100% of the story
- richardwhiuk 6y ago
  I believed he got fired. And I believe he thinks he got fired for helping an elderly relative. Do I think that's the whole truth? No.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    >About 2 weeks later I was approached by my boss. Someone told him that I had helped a friend with his computer. I told him that yes I had in fact helped a friend with a data transfer (something Apple does for free) and that I had helped him on my own time. He told me that I had just admitted to a major conflict on interest, and that an official investigation in to my actions would now start, two days later I was suspended. It's a very weird story. What normal co-worker runs tattling to their boss that so-and-so had the nerve to help an elderly neighbor that weekend? And major conflict of interest? Was borrowed equipment perhaps involved or...? Yes, I'm sure even Apple retail is sucky but something that he may genuinely think is unimportant seems to be missing from this story.

save_ferris 6y ago

This is what irks me about the “well they agreed to Apple’s TOS so they knew the risks” argument we’ve been seeing regarding their legal dispute with Epic. TOS are written in a way to give their authors the maximum amount of power and leverage over the person or entity they’re working with, regardless of whether or not the terms exceed the spirit of general defensive legal strategy. This guy lost a job because helped someone with some basic computer work, something many of us do with our relatives because they see us as “magicians” or whatever and we enjoy tinkering. It’s hard to imagine what additional context needs to be present in order for Apple to be justified in doing this. Just curious: does Apple maintain the right to disable my account if I talk bad about them online? It wouldn’t surprise me, but I guess I should read the TOS.

justapassenger 6y ago
South Park, as often, was on point of that with HumancentiPad episode. It's funny, how 9 years later the problems are not only still there, but at much bigger scale.
ouid 6y ago
obviously TOS written by companies wielding monopoly power are bullshit. We've just defined monopoly too narrowly in the law. Is it possible for me to obtain an equivalent product from a competing company? If the answer is no, then you are a monopoly. If your product is not interoperable with other products that you are claiming equivalence with, then your claims at equivalence are invalid.
- dathinab 6y ago
  I believe monopoly laws should apply to any companies having a "few million" customers and it not being trivial for customers to switch or there not being much choice to switch to. In case of Apple it's neither trivial to switch (you can't move bought apps over) nor is there much choice (in practice it's basically Apple or Google).
  - ouid 6y ago

benbristow 6y ago

Site seems to be down, WBM link here: http://web.archive.org/web/20200818181006/https://lowendmac.com/2020/dear-apple-your-services-are-no-longer-required/ http://web.archive.org/web/20200818181006/https://lowendmac....

aresant 6y ago

To provide some context Ted Hodges, the author of the article, was employed as an Apple Expert (1). An Apple Expert is a ~$20/hr retail job - https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/details/114438150/us-expert https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/details/114438150/us-expert The "boss" he mentions was probably an Apple Store Manager or Assistant Manager. I understand the frustration from Ted but this feels a lot more like a conflict between a mid-level retail manager wielding Apple's general HR guidelines to terminate a retail employee vs. a broader story about Apple hammer smashing a little guy. (1) https://www.facebook.com/ted.hodges.338 https://www.facebook.com/ted.hodges.338

sukilot 6y ago
Apple is fully responsible for the behavior of their managers acting in accordance with company policy. What is a company if not the sum of its people?
- oneplane 6y ago
  That's great in theory, but the personification of a company and the many layers in a large enterprise make it unrealistic to assume everyone is the same, does the same thing, or knows about each other. Doesn't mean bad things aren't bad or good things aren't good, but besides that the marketing and PR departments put out there are more differences than similarities between the people, teams of people and groups of teams in any company.
  - emn13 6y ago
    If your company is structured such that there's no recourse in the event of squabble between a manager and his reports, then your company is bad. If indeed this was just a personal issue with the manager: that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of apple either.
    - oneplane 6y ago
      It doesn't need to be a ringing endorsement, and it doesn't sound like some special Apple-case either. Most companies (especially post-capitalistic American ones) are structured to provide maximum money for the company and/or the shareholders on either the short term or the long term. That's a monster we all created and fed for decades. That means that HR is your friend until they want to get rid of you. And the rules are made in line with that: plenty of options for 'legally' getting rid of people. While I personally think that's just bad for humans, I don't think anyone should still be surprised that that is how it was designed to work.

halfFact 6y ago

Your local nerds warned you. The internet warned you. People need to take responsibility for choosing Apple.

crististm 6y ago

"Anyone who knows me knows that I was among the biggest Apple Evangelists to ever live." Think about this for a second. Is it possible that the 'cult', that by your own words are 'evangelizing', is ever going to turn against you when you make a mistake or do something that they don't agree with? "I believed ... Apple’s mission (or at least what they said their mission was)" - these seems to be the words of someone finally waking up from a trance.

neonate 6y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20200818181027/https://lowendmac.com/2020/dear-apple-your-services-are-no-longer-required/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200818181027/https://lowendmac...

dsspnt 6y ago

If losing the job was not enough, what about a bunch of tech people siding with your enployer saying your are hiding something, not telling the truth

guenthert 6y ago
It's not that he necessarily hides something intentionally. There are reasons why a company might want to separate from an employee. HR has to make sure that this employee doesn't sue then the company, so they're fishing for enforceable reasons. It might be bullshit, but if it's legally sound, they'll use it. I think it's a fair bet, that this employee didn't have the best standing with his superior and he might not even have been aware of it.

exabrial 6y ago

Wow Apple can go right ahead and fuck themselves.

aussir 6y ago

I fail to see how this is a conflict of interest by just helping others. Maybe if it was a widnows or linux pc? Even then it's still stupid.

ggggtez 6y ago

Sounds to me like this guy's job is to do repairs. He may even have access to tools/hardware as an Apple Employee that he doesn't have externally. If he used corporate hardware to do the data transfer, then it doesn't matter if he didn't charge the friend. It would still have been a policy violation. Just a guess though.

hownottowrite 6y ago

I’m struggling to understand why the “boss” would call after the dismissal. This is a major HR protocol no-no. In any case, why ditch Apple? Set up an alternative support lane for people with machines out of warranty and clean up $$$

anonymousisme 6y ago

Interesting that this other article on his blog says he left Apple voluntarily: https://lowendmac.com/2020/52259/ https://lowendmac.com/2020/52259/ "After all this time, I cannot wait to see the back of Apple. I ditched iOS a few years back and it was the best decision I ever made, now leaving Apple is going to be the second best decision. I no longer want anything to do with them. My Mac is up for sale and I will be closing my Apple ID. After hundreds of articles and over 10 years of writing for LowEndMac, this is my final article. This is me signing off."

doodpants 6y ago
Different author. iTed Hodges vs. Simon Royal.

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cptskippy 6y ago

> In late January I decided to help an elderly friend with a data migration at home. He had just bought a new iMac and needed to transfer the data from his old one to his new one. Apple offers free data transfers, but my friend didn’t want to leave both of his machines with Apple for 3 to 5 days in order for them to do it. About 2 weeks later I was approached by my boss. Someone told him that I had helped a friend with his computer. I told him that yes I had in fact helped a friend with a data transfer (something Apple does for free) and that I had helped him on my own time. The following is a fiction that is also the same story as above: In late January an elderly gentleman, whom I'd helped many times during my long tenure at the Apple Store, came in to buy a new iMac. As I was ringing up his purchase, he inquired about how to migrate his data. I informed him that Apple would be happy to do it for free but it would take 3 to 5 business days, I then offered to come by his house and perform the migration for a modest fee. A few weeks later the elderly gentleman came into the Apple Store asking for me because he was having issues locating some of his files, he spoke with my manager and explained the situation. Later my manager approached me about the issue, I confirmed that I had been moonlighting and had solicited my services while on the clock at the Apple Store.

znpy 6y ago

Can I say that this post feels hypocritical, a lot? It seems to me that the person writing this post has always known about the bad behaviors from Apple, and always looked the other way. Now Apple fired him and he's now complaining because he's not in the "cool kids" club. To that guy I say: you went with the bully for the last 13 years, you kinda deserve all of this.

tasuki 6y ago
I feel the same: the bad behavior from Apple somehow wasn't an issue for him while he was being the biggest fanboy and an employee. When he gets fired the bad behavior of Apple suddenly becomes important to him.

donarb 6y ago

Sounds to me he violated the rules by offering free services to the guy WHILE he was in the Apple Store. Otherwise how would anyone else know about it and report it to his boss?

MarcScott 6y ago

> Apple was in my DNA. I believed in Apple’s products, Apple’s services, and Apple’s mission I honestly can't understand such devotion to a corporate entity. I have a preference for Thinkpads, but I don't worship at the alter of Lenovo. Give me a Mac, Chromebook, Dell, Raspberry Pi... whatever, I'll happily use it. Apple is a company, not a sodding religion.

dewey 6y ago
> Apple is a company, not a sodding religion. Just like a baseball or soccer club is a company. They can still have fans who keep up with rumors, news and products more than the average.

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aminozuur 6y ago

I have worked for Apple doing Technical Support. The author conviently and entirely skips over which steps he took to 'help his friend'. Apple employees are allowed to help friends, obviously. What you are not allowed to do, is to use Apple's special software tools that is intented only for helping customers during work time. These are sensible rules that protect the privacy or Apple users. I suspect the author had stepped out of line, and neglected those rules.

ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
Data transfer to a new Mac is straight Migration Assistant territory. Nothing special, internal, or proprietary about it.

say_it_as_it_is 6y ago

Quite a public relations campaign against Apple these days for doing no more than what every other business is doing. Don't sell to Apple customers if you don't want to pay Apple for their services.

nomorealoha 6y ago

If anything I respect Apple more now. There's a lot missing from the story that I suspect the author deliberately omitted in order. Specifically what sort of backup it was, whether he used software from work, and how much of an observer he was into the data backup process. DATA being the keyword. I respect that Apple treats customer's data with the utmost care, and that includes minimizing techs running around offering their gray-market professional services. Disclosure: I have NOTHING to do with Apple other than owning an iPhone; I do hate when people are flippant about data sensitivity.

catmistake 6y ago

iTed Hodges, sorry that happened. But you seem to be a little passive aggressive. That is only one symptom of a notorious psychological disorder, so it is a shot in the dark here: were there any other social conflicts at work previously? Another symptom is an inability or unwillingness to recognize a problem. Consider a psych eval, it may lead to changing your life for the better. I do not know for certain, but most companies have some sort of review process where you can mount a defense of some kind. Forgive me for this opinion, but it seems like there must have been something else going on, and this did not occur in a vacuum out of the blue. Don't burn your bridges, man. References are important. But it sounds like a sh*t job. You can do better. Keep cool. You will get far more sympathy saying nothing rather than going to war. Who wants someone like that working for them.

techbra 6y ago

Fuck Apple

grayhatter 6y ago

OP doesn't state he helped for free. If he charged the customer (that he met while at work) for the service. That's a HUGE conflict of interest.

theandrewbailey 6y ago
I had to re-read the article, but you're right: he didn't explicitly say that he transferred data for free (although he mentions Apple does it for free, twice).

8bitsrule 6y ago

30 years ago I had an Apple (one-button) mouse switch go bad. I was good at electronics and could easily fix in 5 minutes if I could get a switch. (Lived in the boonies.) So I called Apple (this is before 'genius' (hilarious) bars). Me: I want to fix my mouse. Sell me a switch. Apple: We don't sell switches. Me: Why not? Apple: (After pause) It's only an $80 mouse. Not worth it. "Only." That's $135 in today's money. (A better mouse now sells for $7.) I should let Apple charge me $135 to replace a microswitch? You could just watch it going south. It all started when the Mac came out. (The slim II manual had peeks and pokes in it. They actually supported hobbyists and learners.) The Mac dox (think it was 3 huge volumes) had huge lists of names of calls you could make. Just names. Soon the rainbow apple turned to a chrome apple. My next 'Mac' came from Power Computing. Yeah, Apple slipped up and put a gate in the walled garden for a couple years. It worked great for 7 years. At 160MHz. Software got SO much better. So, yeah, I slipped up and got an iMac -- cost me twice what a similar PC would. (But all my music software was for PPC and hardware used serial ports.) That iMac burned me in multiple ways. I thought all that was horrible. Those times were gentle compared to today. RUN AWAY

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