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Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg interviewed Phillip Shoemaker, who ran app reviews from 2009 to 2016 - regarding how Apple systemically removes whole categories of apps. I subsequently spoke to Phillip Shoemaker, who confirmed that Apple executives ordered the elimination of apps that drove downloads to the App Store. He said "Your app drove download volume. Apple doesn’t want any outside sources to drive ratings. So yeah, we got rid of all app recommendation apps." He said he thought it was unfair, but this was something Apple set out to do, and even as Senior Director of App Store (person directly in charge of App Review), he could not stop it. The other thing that was hard to understand, is we used to have a great relationship with Apple. We were not flying under the radar. Since the App Store first launched in 2008, we used to be invited to all Apple events to see the new product launches, we met with the iTunes team to discuss upcoming initiates for the App Store, our apps were featured on the devices inside of many demo units into Apple Stores. It felt like a complete 180, and until this day I never got a formal conversation on what they actually objected to, beyond being pointed to a vague rule which was applied arbitrarily. They became a brick wall in terms of communication, and this is why I resorted to emailing Tim Cook. I assumed nothing would come of it, but it was the last thing I could think of.I never received a response, and never knew if he even got it, so I was shocked to see it again today from his inbox.

domador 6y ago
Bummer! So, what platform(s) are you developing for nowadays?
- mhafez17 6y ago
  No longer in the app recommendation game (too bad that was my passion. The same team who built AppAdvice has now created a B2B company helping businesses annoyomize personal documents: https://redacted.ai https://redacted.ai
  - WolfOliver 6y ago
    Has this letter be anonymized with readacted.ai? :D
overeater 6y ago
My sympathies. That's a really sad story. I don't know if it's any consolation that it was at least discussed among the executives. I don't know why you originally eschewed the web. I've developed on closed platforms in the past: Facebook (when Facebook games like Farmville and Mafia Wars were crazy hot), Silverlight, OpenSocial, Twitter, and now Google Apps Script. My work is always worthless in 2-3 years, and what I "learned" about that platform is useless. Now when I develop for a platform, my mindset is only if it's temporary, and if I will be okay if this is shut down in a year.
- mhafez17 6y ago
  In hindsight this was obviously a mistake. We were young and genuinely loved the App Store. We bought the kool-aid (and still drinking it to be honest) that this a new better way to consume content. So we wanted to be as native as possible and take full advantage from the power of being native. We never thought Apple would someday object to us helping promote their platform.
  - jldugger 6y ago
    What was the profit angle your team was planning on?
    - ivalm 6y ago
      Their email has this: they got a cut of order volume.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tomc1985 6y ago
  Honestly, making fun of old platforms like the web (which isn't even that old) suggests that the writer is the kind of wide-eyed business huckster playing into Americans' cultural affinity for new tech, and folks like that are a huge chunk of the reason why we have so much technology churn today Old, mature technology is a treasure. Not something to make fun of
surround 6y ago
Can I ask what your app was/did?
- csa 6y ago
  > Apple executives ordered the elimination of apps that drove downloads to the App Store. He said "Your app drove download volume. Apple doesn’t want any outside sources to drive ratings. So yeah, we got rid of all app recommendation apps." He said he thought it was unfair, but this was something. Seems like an app recommendation app.
  - WWLink 6y ago
    I wouldn't mind one of those. Especially if it helped me find games that don't have in-app purchases and don't have in-game advertising. I'd buy those. But it's fucking impossible to find them.
    - mhafez17 6y ago
      Apple Arcade for $5 / month is a good deal. Fun games and no more money to pay ever. If you like the old Zelda games check out Oceanhorn as well.
    - csa 6y ago
      I think the idea behind this ban (could be wrong) is that Apple wants to be the main (only?) app-based curator of apps. It lets them control the narrative and flow of money.
      - im3w1l 6y ago
        It becomes a lot harder to justify a 30% cut should 3rd party apps drive the majority of downloads.
        thw0rted 6y ago
        Presumably the 3rd parties would want a referral / affiliate fee, which would come out of the 30%. That seems more than fair -- this is clearly about control, not money.
guessbest 6y ago
Congratulations, you are now part of an antitrust suit. https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/015127.pdf https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/015127.pdf
- LurkersWillLurk 6y ago
  This is the same file as the original submission. But can you explain how this email got its way to the House Judiciary Committee?
  - mhafez17 6y ago
    I have no idea. I was not contacted by anyone. This email is an email Tim Cook forwarded to the executive team. So my guess is when doing discovery for this case, they got to look at Tim Cook emails regarding the App Store and this one came up. Again, this is an email that Tim Cook read and forwarded - it did not come from me providing it to anyone
    - normanmatrix 6y ago
      How sad is it that in order to build and run a Trillion dollar company on values like trust and joy you need to dissect human emotion so fundamentally that in the end you loose your own capability to empathize. Thank you for telling your story to the man up in the ivory tower in such a beautiful way. It may not haven been listened to there, but it certainly has impacted me.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      Friend mine works as a legal at secretary white shoe law firm. Not what it sounds like. His job is using software to grind through corporate records and communications. Big part of that is finding interesting documents and teasing out the back channels inside the company. The better to find people to depose. That they found that email isn't a surprise. In a lawsuit between to companies someone that wrote an email like yours would be someone you absolutely want to talk to.
TheSoftwareGuy 6y ago
Sounds like apple didn't want any competition for in-store ads
- Hamuko 6y ago
  I still don't understand those. I paid god damn 1200 euro for this phone. Why am I seeing ads for shitty apps?
  - trenchgun 6y ago
    Because Apple went to trash after Jobs.
  - kevincox 6y ago
    Because 2% more money is %2 more money and exec compensation is often based on fairly short term performance.
    - sukilot 6y ago
      How long is short term? Jobs has been dead for 9 years.
      - vinnybad 6y ago
        That’s the thing when chasing the market wants: it’s always short term though it’s over a long term.
  - perryizgr8 6y ago
    Because you paid $1200 for a device that doesn't allow you to run arbitrary software.
  - kalleboo 6y ago
    Because the stock market demands eternal growth. They've already sold phones to half the planet, they know you won't pay 1300 euro next year, and now they have to find more creative ways to show growth.
ChuckMcM 6y ago
That was an excellent letter by the way. It is too bad the source does not include any responses by the product team.
- mhafez17 6y ago
  Thank you. I would have loved to see their response. My guess it was something to the effect of it's our store, and we gave them distribution to begin with. I have seen similar comments here on HN. I honestly get that argument, but they have been rewarded very handsomely for making this platform…they are almost 2 TRILLION dollar company. At some point, the platform is bigger than you. If I was one case, okay fine, but this is happening across many product categories.
  - ChuckMcM 6y ago
    I wouldn't bank on your assumption about how the conversation went after the letter was forwarded. My experience is that when the CEO forwards you something and asks for your thoughts you don't respond without doing the homework. I suspect there was a fairly detailed conversation about how apps such as yours could be supported while simultaneously being able to detect and mitigate 'cram and jam' strategies where apps pay per install. Short of doing quarterly audits of your books, I'm not sure how those dubious business practices could be avoided[1]. [1] And even with regular auditing, criminal enterprises manage to operate successfully with multiple ledgers.
jrochkind1 6y ago
The most alarming part of this is actually the clear evidence that they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In this case "no app recommendation engines", or more broadly "nothing that drives downloads". They didn't just say that. They pretended it was some other rule. Which means what people suspected is true -- they lie to you about the reason for your app being removed. You may have zero chance of complying with the rule they said you violated, because it wasn't really about that rule at all, it was about another secret rule or policy decision. To me that's far more alarming than the fact that they decided to forbid a class of app that had previously been allowed. They could arguably defend the ability to forbid any category or type of app they want with no notice; it's their store, they make the rules, they decided that kind of app was unwelcome. Although that they don't simply admit this must mean they think it would make them look bad, and/or discourage developers from developing for their platform, and/or be evidence of antitrust illegality, and/or something. But when they instead lie about it... it makes the whole sytem into a kafkaesque maze, you never know when they are lying to you about their rules and when they are telling the truth, when there's something you could do to "fix" your app so it would be allowed, and when they have just already decided the whole category your app is in is banned; it's not because you actually accidentally violated any rules, and there's nothing you can do to fix it, but they will instead try to, well, "gaslight" you (I normally am not fond of that phrase, but it seems apt) into thinking you were in violation of a rule. > He said he thought it was unfair, but this was something Apple set out to do, and even as Senior Director of App Store (person directly in charge of App Review), he could not stop it. I would like to believe if I were him, I would have had the courage to quit. NOT because it is unfair to the apps banned. But because LYING about it makes the entire App Review process illegitimate and unethical and "gaslighting" developers, and I wouldn't be willing to be the person directly in charge of all App Review if it's gonna be BS like that.
- rexpop 6y ago
  > they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In the context of criminal law, this is sometimes called "selective enforcement," and refers to the criminalization of normal behavior in order to provide plausible cover for violations of the actual, secret law. It's devastatingly unjust, and unsurprisingly applied in private jurisdictions.
cabaalis 6y ago
Did you get a response? It looks like it was forwarded to some very senior people asking for input.
- mhafez17 6y ago
  Never got a response. I am still in shock that it was actually read and even passed along. I wish things turned out differently, I at least they heard me and the got to learn the damage it did.
donor20 6y ago
Awesome service and app. The nuance here was there a fair number of bad players in this space and abuse was not uncommon. Ie, "ratings" apps that were not really ratings / user reviews were bogus / paid for etc. Apple has a fair bit of visability into app store reviews (ie, did users actually install apps). That said, STILL lots of fakes on app store itself in terms of reviews, so in the end I think your app was actually the BETTER solution (curated lists meant you didn't have the app review spam problem, some ethics means you hopefully didn't push the adware type apps). So yeah, apple screwed up. I do wish you could filter app reviews by verified in-country users (ie, apple uses the gps of the device and icloud account length / other verifications) to weed out the crappy reviews. If you look you can see where people "buy" their reviews (lumps of all 5 star reviews with min content length).
brianzelip 6y ago
Unfortunate to see you “betting against” the web so vehemently. What a peculiar stance.
amelius 6y ago
Do you still use Apple products and/or write software for them?
- mhafez17 6y ago
  I still use all Apple products and I am a big fan. Although their policies literally cost me millions of dollars, I am still a big Apple fan. We no longer develop for the App Store and our new company is web only.
msie 6y ago
I am so curious about these executives and where they are now. They are destroying the Apple I love. Which reminds me of how the the Boeing acquisition of McDonnell-Douglas resulted in MD bean counters taking over the company resulting in the 737 Max mess.
ransom1538 6y ago
1) I worked at a game company 2011: kicked out of facebook (quizzes restrictions were added to the toss) 2) I worked at a mobile ads company 2013: kicked out of apple store 3) I worked at a mobile hosting company for small shops 2015: salons, restaurants, etc: kicked out of apple store 4) I worked at a mobile social network company (2017): kicked out of apple store. 5) I built an app where people can promote their github projects (2017): account suspended by github 6) Built another app to help locate doctors: blacklisted by google
- tr33house 6y ago
  you've really had it rough. I guess the lesson to all of us is to never rely on third-party platforms as much as possible
  - nautilus12 6y ago
    Should also be a lesson to anyone trying to build a third party platform that if you build a walled garden, people will start to resent it
    - eptcyka 6y ago
      Conversely, we wouldn't be here bickering about such platforms if it wasn't immensely profitable. So, depending on your morals, it's a lesson on what to aim for. I wouldn't run a platform that stifles use, but I'm sure there are industrious people who will be able to exploit such a business _device_ to bring more good into the world.
      - sukilot 6y ago
        Industrious people like Steve Jobs, Tim Cook, Larry Page, and Sundar Pichai?
  - Const-me 6y ago
    Even if you develop for bare metal, you’re at the mercy of hardware manufacturers, who sometimes change specs without warnings. Windows and Linux are third-party platforms too. I mostly develop for these two platforms (been doing for couple decades now), and never had the unfortunate experience of GP.
dzonga 6y ago
I feel sorry for you. but you placed your bets, on a closed platform you don't control.in short, you dug your grave. in your own words, the web as we know it is dead [sic]. Had you stuck to the web, maybe the business would still exist to this day.
antimeme 6y ago
Hello. I read your email to Tim Cook with interest and I sympathize with the plight of your company. But I wish you would treat other platforms with more respect. To be clear, I'm glad you enjoy Apple products and I'm not trying to talk you out of that -- as if that were possible. But I do want you to understand that my experience with them is different than yours. Apple products don't delight me. I've tried them. Every time an iOS device ends up in my hands (something that happens way too often, including earlier today) it's a frustrating experience. They feel cold, uncaring and limited. Android has moved in this direction, getting more polished but less delightful over the years, but it's still a better experience for me. Again, I'm not saying your feelings about Apple products aren't valid. They certainly are. I'm glad you've shared them and I admire your efforts to support the iOS platform. I just wish you respected people like me who don't experience technology the same way you do. I'm glad that iOS and Android products both exist in the market. There are audiences for both -- and then some. And as for the web, we will have to agree to disagree. Not only do I think it's not dead, I don't think it will ever be dead. That's not something I'd say about either iOS or Android. The web can't go out of business or get bought. Anything it's missing can be added. The first web browser didn't support images! On the other side, it wasn't too long ago that people thought Blackberry was here to stay. Clearly there are many features iOS and Android offer that are difficult to match with the web. For now. Clearly the development tools are more convenient than those available for the web. But there is one feature of the web that other platforms will never be able to match: it belongs to all of us. No one has to take a 30% cut of your revenue. No one gets to decide what you can and cannot make available. In your letter to Tim Cook you make it clear that you made use of that advantage yourself, even if you don't seem grateful. Freedom always comes at a price and it's up to you to decide whether it's a price worth paying. If it's not then develop for the platform you prefer. But please remember that there are people like me who think differently.
- frogpelt 6y ago
  Consider that he tailored his message for the recipient, as most anyone would do. Imagine if you had spent years (maybe you have, I don't know you) building an app and a business for a platform you love only to have it snatched away. Wouldn't it bring out strong emotion and cause you to want to appeal to them in the same way?
pinpanpuchi 6y ago
Not trying to start a flame war, but as an Android user, I often hear things from Apple users along the lines of what you said "I picked up an Android phone and after 5 mins I couldn't handle how they completely missed delighting the user over and over again". It all sounds rather wishy-washy and ambiguous to me, do you mind to elaborate and give some examples? In all fairness, I tried out the demo units of Iphones and Ipads at the Apple Stores and never found the interface to be immediately intuitive despite the hype about Apple's polished UI.
- hajimemash 6y ago
  On Android, scrolling to top|bottom doesn't bounce back into final position. Rather, it feels like a lifeless, cheap plastic scroll bar that thuds into place with no intuitiveness. I know this seems completely pointless and useless, but.. this same disregard for UX is repeated in other major ways. Such as allowing less-than-60fps scrolling on modern phones. Last time I used Android was 2016 or so, and the inefficient animations are probably less noticeable now, but I bet it's still inefficient. Everything just seems way more thought out and well executed on iOS.
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
I had a retro arachnoid type game in Appstore for years which was under 'Arcade' category, when apple branded its gaming subscription service as 'Arcade', it forced me to change it to an irrelevant category(Casual). I'm confident, none of the earlier 'Arcade' type games made it to the new 'Apple Arcade' program as it required to be a shiny new unreleased game, developed according to Apple's wishes for its subscription program. Bam, just like that all Arcade games became non-Arcade with a single email. If this is not clear abuse of power, then what it is? Don't tell me that a Trillion dollar company couldn't come up with a better name for its subscription service without hurting hundreds, perhaps thousands of small time developers?
- richrichardsson 6y ago
  This is the kind of thing that makes me think that yourself and others who are able to demonstrate a loss of earnings due to this decision could litigate. Generally I'm against that sort of thing, but sometimes there is only one course of action that will make someone like Apple listen.
  - Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
    You're correct, but if the financial capacity of a disabled solopreneur from a village in India vs Californian monolith didn't make any difference in the judicial process; I would have taken that course.
virattara 6y ago
What happened after Tim Cook wrote "Thoughts"?
alexhektor 6y ago
Very sad to read this, but also an important lesson to every entrepreneur :( The answer you never got from Apple was actually already in your own E-Mail all along. Pay-Per-Install Ads will be a $118 BILLION industry by 2022. [1] While you've missed out on millions of dollars, Apple sure saw this coming (Facebook probably was having quite a lot of success with it at the time?) and wanted those billions for themselves. Protecting the user experience IS important to Apple, too, of course.., and it will always be the story they tell on the outside, but Craig, Phil or whoever was responsible for the AppStore at the time will have given a very different answer to Tim [1] https://www.appsflyer.com/blog/app-install-ad-spend/ https://www.appsflyer.com/blog/app-install-ad-spend/

domador 6y ago

Bummer! So, what platform(s) are you developing for nowadays?

mhafez17 6y ago
No longer in the app recommendation game (too bad that was my passion. The same team who built AppAdvice has now created a B2B company helping businesses annoyomize personal documents: https://redacted.ai https://redacted.ai
- WolfOliver 6y ago
  Has this letter be anonymized with readacted.ai? :D

overeater 6y ago

My sympathies. That's a really sad story. I don't know if it's any consolation that it was at least discussed among the executives. I don't know why you originally eschewed the web. I've developed on closed platforms in the past: Facebook (when Facebook games like Farmville and Mafia Wars were crazy hot), Silverlight, OpenSocial, Twitter, and now Google Apps Script. My work is always worthless in 2-3 years, and what I "learned" about that platform is useless. Now when I develop for a platform, my mindset is only if it's temporary, and if I will be okay if this is shut down in a year.

mhafez17 6y ago
In hindsight this was obviously a mistake. We were young and genuinely loved the App Store. We bought the kool-aid (and still drinking it to be honest) that this a new better way to consume content. So we wanted to be as native as possible and take full advantage from the power of being native. We never thought Apple would someday object to us helping promote their platform.
- jldugger 6y ago
  What was the profit angle your team was planning on?
  - ivalm 6y ago
    Their email has this: they got a cut of order volume.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tomc1985 6y ago
Honestly, making fun of old platforms like the web (which isn't even that old) suggests that the writer is the kind of wide-eyed business huckster playing into Americans' cultural affinity for new tech, and folks like that are a huge chunk of the reason why we have so much technology churn today Old, mature technology is a treasure. Not something to make fun of

surround 6y ago

Can I ask what your app was/did?

csa 6y ago
> Apple executives ordered the elimination of apps that drove downloads to the App Store. He said "Your app drove download volume. Apple doesn’t want any outside sources to drive ratings. So yeah, we got rid of all app recommendation apps." He said he thought it was unfair, but this was something. Seems like an app recommendation app.
- WWLink 6y ago
  I wouldn't mind one of those. Especially if it helped me find games that don't have in-app purchases and don't have in-game advertising. I'd buy those. But it's fucking impossible to find them.
  - mhafez17 6y ago
    Apple Arcade for $5 / month is a good deal. Fun games and no more money to pay ever. If you like the old Zelda games check out Oceanhorn as well.
  - csa 6y ago
    I think the idea behind this ban (could be wrong) is that Apple wants to be the main (only?) app-based curator of apps. It lets them control the narrative and flow of money.
    - im3w1l 6y ago
      It becomes a lot harder to justify a 30% cut should 3rd party apps drive the majority of downloads.
      - thw0rted 6y ago
        Presumably the 3rd parties would want a referral / affiliate fee, which would come out of the 30%. That seems more than fair -- this is clearly about control, not money.

guessbest 6y ago

Congratulations, you are now part of an antitrust suit. https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/015127.pdf https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/015127.pdf

LurkersWillLurk 6y ago
This is the same file as the original submission. But can you explain how this email got its way to the House Judiciary Committee?
- mhafez17 6y ago
  I have no idea. I was not contacted by anyone. This email is an email Tim Cook forwarded to the executive team. So my guess is when doing discovery for this case, they got to look at Tim Cook emails regarding the App Store and this one came up. Again, this is an email that Tim Cook read and forwarded - it did not come from me providing it to anyone
  - normanmatrix 6y ago
    How sad is it that in order to build and run a Trillion dollar company on values like trust and joy you need to dissect human emotion so fundamentally that in the end you loose your own capability to empathize. Thank you for telling your story to the man up in the ivory tower in such a beautiful way. It may not haven been listened to there, but it certainly has impacted me.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    Friend mine works as a legal at secretary white shoe law firm. Not what it sounds like. His job is using software to grind through corporate records and communications. Big part of that is finding interesting documents and teasing out the back channels inside the company. The better to find people to depose. That they found that email isn't a surprise. In a lawsuit between to companies someone that wrote an email like yours would be someone you absolutely want to talk to.

TheSoftwareGuy 6y ago

Sounds like apple didn't want any competition for in-store ads

Hamuko 6y ago
I still don't understand those. I paid god damn 1200 euro for this phone. Why am I seeing ads for shitty apps?
- trenchgun 6y ago
  Because Apple went to trash after Jobs.
- kevincox 6y ago
  Because 2% more money is %2 more money and exec compensation is often based on fairly short term performance.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    How long is short term? Jobs has been dead for 9 years.
    - vinnybad 6y ago
      That’s the thing when chasing the market wants: it’s always short term though it’s over a long term.
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  Because you paid $1200 for a device that doesn't allow you to run arbitrary software.
- kalleboo 6y ago
  Because the stock market demands eternal growth. They've already sold phones to half the planet, they know you won't pay 1300 euro next year, and now they have to find more creative ways to show growth.

ChuckMcM 6y ago

That was an excellent letter by the way. It is too bad the source does not include any responses by the product team.

mhafez17 6y ago
Thank you. I would have loved to see their response. My guess it was something to the effect of it's our store, and we gave them distribution to begin with. I have seen similar comments here on HN. I honestly get that argument, but they have been rewarded very handsomely for making this platform…they are almost 2 TRILLION dollar company. At some point, the platform is bigger than you. If I was one case, okay fine, but this is happening across many product categories.
- ChuckMcM 6y ago
  I wouldn't bank on your assumption about how the conversation went after the letter was forwarded. My experience is that when the CEO forwards you something and asks for your thoughts you don't respond without doing the homework. I suspect there was a fairly detailed conversation about how apps such as yours could be supported while simultaneously being able to detect and mitigate 'cram and jam' strategies where apps pay per install. Short of doing quarterly audits of your books, I'm not sure how those dubious business practices could be avoided[1]. [1] And even with regular auditing, criminal enterprises manage to operate successfully with multiple ledgers.

jrochkind1 6y ago

The most alarming part of this is actually the clear evidence that they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In this case "no app recommendation engines", or more broadly "nothing that drives downloads". They didn't just say that. They pretended it was some other rule. Which means what people suspected is true -- they lie to you about the reason for your app being removed. You may have zero chance of complying with the rule they said you violated, because it wasn't really about that rule at all, it was about another secret rule or policy decision. To me that's far more alarming than the fact that they decided to forbid a class of app that had previously been allowed. They could arguably defend the ability to forbid any category or type of app they want with no notice; it's their store, they make the rules, they decided that kind of app was unwelcome. Although that they don't simply admit this must mean they think it would make them look bad, and/or discourage developers from developing for their platform, and/or be evidence of antitrust illegality, and/or something. But when they instead lie about it... it makes the whole sytem into a kafkaesque maze, you never know when they are lying to you about their rules and when they are telling the truth, when there's something you could do to "fix" your app so it would be allowed, and when they have just already decided the whole category your app is in is banned; it's not because you actually accidentally violated any rules, and there's nothing you can do to fix it, but they will instead try to, well, "gaslight" you (I normally am not fond of that phrase, but it seems apt) into thinking you were in violation of a rule. > He said he thought it was unfair, but this was something Apple set out to do, and even as Senior Director of App Store (person directly in charge of App Review), he could not stop it. I would like to believe if I were him, I would have had the courage to quit. NOT because it is unfair to the apps banned. But because LYING about it makes the entire App Review process illegitimate and unethical and "gaslighting" developers, and I wouldn't be willing to be the person directly in charge of all App Review if it's gonna be BS like that.

rexpop 6y ago
> they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In the context of criminal law, this is sometimes called "selective enforcement," and refers to the criminalization of normal behavior in order to provide plausible cover for violations of the actual, secret law. It's devastatingly unjust, and unsurprisingly applied in private jurisdictions.

cabaalis 6y ago

Did you get a response? It looks like it was forwarded to some very senior people asking for input.

mhafez17 6y ago
Never got a response. I am still in shock that it was actually read and even passed along. I wish things turned out differently, I at least they heard me and the got to learn the damage it did.

donor20 6y ago

Awesome service and app. The nuance here was there a fair number of bad players in this space and abuse was not uncommon. Ie, "ratings" apps that were not really ratings / user reviews were bogus / paid for etc. Apple has a fair bit of visability into app store reviews (ie, did users actually install apps). That said, STILL lots of fakes on app store itself in terms of reviews, so in the end I think your app was actually the BETTER solution (curated lists meant you didn't have the app review spam problem, some ethics means you hopefully didn't push the adware type apps). So yeah, apple screwed up. I do wish you could filter app reviews by verified in-country users (ie, apple uses the gps of the device and icloud account length / other verifications) to weed out the crappy reviews. If you look you can see where people "buy" their reviews (lumps of all 5 star reviews with min content length).

brianzelip 6y ago

Unfortunate to see you “betting against” the web so vehemently. What a peculiar stance.

amelius 6y ago

Do you still use Apple products and/or write software for them?

mhafez17 6y ago
I still use all Apple products and I am a big fan. Although their policies literally cost me millions of dollars, I am still a big Apple fan. We no longer develop for the App Store and our new company is web only.

msie 6y ago

I am so curious about these executives and where they are now. They are destroying the Apple I love. Which reminds me of how the the Boeing acquisition of McDonnell-Douglas resulted in MD bean counters taking over the company resulting in the 737 Max mess.

ransom1538 6y ago

1) I worked at a game company 2011: kicked out of facebook (quizzes restrictions were added to the toss) 2) I worked at a mobile ads company 2013: kicked out of apple store 3) I worked at a mobile hosting company for small shops 2015: salons, restaurants, etc: kicked out of apple store 4) I worked at a mobile social network company (2017): kicked out of apple store. 5) I built an app where people can promote their github projects (2017): account suspended by github 6) Built another app to help locate doctors: blacklisted by google

tr33house 6y ago
you've really had it rough. I guess the lesson to all of us is to never rely on third-party platforms as much as possible
- nautilus12 6y ago
  Should also be a lesson to anyone trying to build a third party platform that if you build a walled garden, people will start to resent it
  - eptcyka 6y ago
    Conversely, we wouldn't be here bickering about such platforms if it wasn't immensely profitable. So, depending on your morals, it's a lesson on what to aim for. I wouldn't run a platform that stifles use, but I'm sure there are industrious people who will be able to exploit such a business _device_ to bring more good into the world.
    - sukilot 6y ago
      Industrious people like Steve Jobs, Tim Cook, Larry Page, and Sundar Pichai?
- Const-me 6y ago
  Even if you develop for bare metal, you’re at the mercy of hardware manufacturers, who sometimes change specs without warnings. Windows and Linux are third-party platforms too. I mostly develop for these two platforms (been doing for couple decades now), and never had the unfortunate experience of GP.

dzonga 6y ago

I feel sorry for you. but you placed your bets, on a closed platform you don't control.in short, you dug your grave. in your own words, the web as we know it is dead [sic]. Had you stuck to the web, maybe the business would still exist to this day.

antimeme 6y ago

Hello. I read your email to Tim Cook with interest and I sympathize with the plight of your company. But I wish you would treat other platforms with more respect. To be clear, I'm glad you enjoy Apple products and I'm not trying to talk you out of that -- as if that were possible. But I do want you to understand that my experience with them is different than yours. Apple products don't delight me. I've tried them. Every time an iOS device ends up in my hands (something that happens way too often, including earlier today) it's a frustrating experience. They feel cold, uncaring and limited. Android has moved in this direction, getting more polished but less delightful over the years, but it's still a better experience for me. Again, I'm not saying your feelings about Apple products aren't valid. They certainly are. I'm glad you've shared them and I admire your efforts to support the iOS platform. I just wish you respected people like me who don't experience technology the same way you do. I'm glad that iOS and Android products both exist in the market. There are audiences for both -- and then some. And as for the web, we will have to agree to disagree. Not only do I think it's not dead, I don't think it will ever be dead. That's not something I'd say about either iOS or Android. The web can't go out of business or get bought. Anything it's missing can be added. The first web browser didn't support images! On the other side, it wasn't too long ago that people thought Blackberry was here to stay. Clearly there are many features iOS and Android offer that are difficult to match with the web. For now. Clearly the development tools are more convenient than those available for the web. But there is one feature of the web that other platforms will never be able to match: it belongs to all of us. No one has to take a 30% cut of your revenue. No one gets to decide what you can and cannot make available. In your letter to Tim Cook you make it clear that you made use of that advantage yourself, even if you don't seem grateful. Freedom always comes at a price and it's up to you to decide whether it's a price worth paying. If it's not then develop for the platform you prefer. But please remember that there are people like me who think differently.

frogpelt 6y ago
Consider that he tailored his message for the recipient, as most anyone would do. Imagine if you had spent years (maybe you have, I don't know you) building an app and a business for a platform you love only to have it snatched away. Wouldn't it bring out strong emotion and cause you to want to appeal to them in the same way?

pinpanpuchi 6y ago

Not trying to start a flame war, but as an Android user, I often hear things from Apple users along the lines of what you said "I picked up an Android phone and after 5 mins I couldn't handle how they completely missed delighting the user over and over again". It all sounds rather wishy-washy and ambiguous to me, do you mind to elaborate and give some examples? In all fairness, I tried out the demo units of Iphones and Ipads at the Apple Stores and never found the interface to be immediately intuitive despite the hype about Apple's polished UI.

hajimemash 6y ago
On Android, scrolling to top|bottom doesn't bounce back into final position. Rather, it feels like a lifeless, cheap plastic scroll bar that thuds into place with no intuitiveness. I know this seems completely pointless and useless, but.. this same disregard for UX is repeated in other major ways. Such as allowing less-than-60fps scrolling on modern phones. Last time I used Android was 2016 or so, and the inefficient animations are probably less noticeable now, but I bet it's still inefficient. Everything just seems way more thought out and well executed on iOS.

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

I had a retro arachnoid type game in Appstore for years which was under 'Arcade' category, when apple branded its gaming subscription service as 'Arcade', it forced me to change it to an irrelevant category(Casual). I'm confident, none of the earlier 'Arcade' type games made it to the new 'Apple Arcade' program as it required to be a shiny new unreleased game, developed according to Apple's wishes for its subscription program. Bam, just like that all Arcade games became non-Arcade with a single email. If this is not clear abuse of power, then what it is? Don't tell me that a Trillion dollar company couldn't come up with a better name for its subscription service without hurting hundreds, perhaps thousands of small time developers?

richrichardsson 6y ago
This is the kind of thing that makes me think that yourself and others who are able to demonstrate a loss of earnings due to this decision could litigate. Generally I'm against that sort of thing, but sometimes there is only one course of action that will make someone like Apple listen.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
  You're correct, but if the financial capacity of a disabled solopreneur from a village in India vs Californian monolith didn't make any difference in the judicial process; I would have taken that course.

virattara 6y ago

What happened after Tim Cook wrote "Thoughts"?

alexhektor 6y ago

Very sad to read this, but also an important lesson to every entrepreneur :( The answer you never got from Apple was actually already in your own E-Mail all along. Pay-Per-Install Ads will be a $118 BILLION industry by 2022. [1] While you've missed out on millions of dollars, Apple sure saw this coming (Facebook probably was having quite a lot of success with it at the time?) and wanted those billions for themselves. Protecting the user experience IS important to Apple, too, of course.., and it will always be the story they tell on the outside, but Craig, Phil or whoever was responsible for the AppStore at the time will have given a very different answer to Tim [1] https://www.appsflyer.com/blog/app-install-ad-spend/ https://www.appsflyer.com/blog/app-install-ad-spend/