15 ms·

Epic direct payment on mobile

414 points by bdz 6y ago

bdz 6y ago
Curious how this will play out because they explicitly bypass both Google and Apple
- b3lvedere 6y ago
  Oh they knew this way before they activated this.
- safog 6y ago
  Probably pushing it intentionally given the recent antitrust discussions. Worst case for them, they get banned from the store for a bit until they take that option down.
  - dannyr 6y ago
    Sadly, it's gonna take a while before actual legislation is enacted. If Fortnite gets banned, they'll stay that way for a long time unless they remove direct payment.
    - krisgee 6y ago
      I'd assume that the move would be to take the option out then file an anti-trust suit.
    - ckocagil 6y ago
      Even if that happens Epic still wins. Customers will no longer get their discount and will blame Apple for it.
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  That’s the point right? It’s a direct swing at a topic Tim Sweeney has been very vocal about.
  - philliphaydon 6y ago
    He’s only vocal because he wants to be valve. He plays his dirty to win market share.
    - meheleventyone 6y ago
      I don’t think this benefits the Epic Store itself directly? And what’s wrong with a competitor to Steam?
      - philliphaydon 6y ago
        Competition is great. But epics approach is dirty. A false hero to Developers and publishers.
- riq_ 6y ago
  From the announcement, V-Bucks are 20% cheaper (... when purchased from epicstore I guess...). So, you use your browser, login to epicstore with your account, purchase v-bucks at 20% discount and you use those v-bucks in all Epic Games regardless the platform.
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    It's not an issue that [insert digital good here] is cheaper on the seller's website than in the Apple App Store. What Apple prohibits you from is telling your client that the [insert digital good here] is available for purchase somewhere else or that there's a special kind of a markup on the App Store option.
    - hugey010 6y ago
      I don't think that's entirely true. Apps can use SMS or open the OS browser to accept payments and not be in direct violation of the guidelines.
      - Hamuko 6y ago
        >Apps can use SMS or open the OS browser to accept payments and not be in direct violation of the guidelines. Which apps are allowed to open the browser for payments? I don't think even Netflix isn't allowed to do it. They just say "You can't make an account in the app" (paraphrasing) on the sign in page.
        hugey010 6y ago
        I'm under the impression anything done outside the app doesn't really fall under App Review territory. Embedding a UIWebView is considered in-app, and an embedded SFSafariViewController has slightly different rules.
  - meheleventyone 6y ago
    No if you have a payment method setup you can pay using it directly from the apps themselves: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epic-direct-payment-on-mobile https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epi... Then in the app the Apple/Play payment method is explicitly not discounted.
epaga 6y ago
My money is on Apple cracking down hard on this. It looks clearly as if Epic remotely activated this direct payment option, thereby bypassing Apple's App Review. Apple will not take kindly to this. Best case scenario for Epic (and Fortnite players): they invite Sweeney in for some hard negotiations. Worst case: Fortnite ends up getting removed from iOS for this.
- coldcode 6y ago
  Pull it is exactly what I would do. Apple gets a cut of the paid apps, but $0 from free apps who show ads. Take away getting a cut from the paid apps then free apps suddenly cost the developers money—no more free apps. Imagine going to Walmart and telling them what you want them to give you all the revenue. Walmart will tell you exactly what they want to pay you, or you can leave. Maybe 30% is too much, but 0% is a terrible idea. In the old days before the web I had to pay up to 70% for distribution for my apps. If I was lucky I might get my cut 3-6 months later, plus I had to pay for the packaging and shipping to the warehouse and take it back if they didn't sell enough. 30% seems like a bargain.
  - mehlmao 6y ago
    Exactly, in the days before the web. The majority of software sold for computers isn't sold through the Microsoft store or Apple store, it's through other channels with much lower costs. Apple won't let you load apps onto the hardware you own unless they go through the App store and pay the Apple tax. Developers (and users) shouldn't settle for "better than retail, even if it's worse than the open web".
  - nightski 6y ago
    The problem is that the app store is an artificial market. It's entirely possible to load apps on a phone without an app store or any of the infrastructure it provides. There is no reason our phones need to be so locked down today that they only allow apps to be easily installed via the app store. Instead the app store should be able to stand on it's own and developers should be able to decide if the exposure gained by it is worth the cost.
  - 6y ago
dingdongding 6y ago
Yeah I wonder they did a backroom deal with Apple and Google. These backroom deals that Apple/Google are doing is so anti competitive for small app developers and they keep on stressing that they are helping millions of developers. If this is not unfair I don't know what is.
- drchopchop 6y ago
  That seems unlikely considering the way that UX looks? They are actively pushing people away from the App Store flow.
- krisgee 6y ago
  Even if they did this is now an argument that the app store review process is not "fairly applied" which will be noticed in the current environment.
theli0nheart 6y ago
This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple's anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers. If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not taking anything off the top here; they make the same amount of money whether consumers choose to purchase through the App Store or through Epic's direct payment system. If they keep Fortnite on the App Store, they're going to need to make a rule change to allow alternative payment methods within apps. One of Apple's main defenses during antitrust hearings was that App Review applies rules fairly and consistently. If they don't change the rules, that argument falls dead in the water. Epic leadership knows that this is going to cause a firestorm. I'm happy that a large company with market power decided this was the right time to do this. I doubt Apple and Epic worked together on this; there's no way that this doesn't completely embarrass Apple and its App Store policies. It will be exciting to see how this plays out, but my bet is that this is going to lead to a huge win for Apple developers.
- lifty 6y ago
  I bet that Epic execs also talked behind the scene with other execs in the industry to garner support in case Apple cracks down hard on Epic and removes Fortnite from the app store. If more studios/developers join the cause, they can definitely apply big pressure on Apple.
  - uncoder0 6y ago
    Many mobile games are built on unreal. They could make this an option for developers to simply 'turn on' in their mobile games built on their engine.
  - kingbirdy 6y ago
    Fortnite is popular enough to count as "big pressure" all on its own. I couldn't find recent numbers, but as of 2018 they had over 100M installs and were doing over $1M/day in revenue[0] and by early 2019 they'd already done more than half a billion[1]. [0]: https://venturebeat.com/2018/07/30/fortnite-clears-100-million-downloads-and-160-million-in-revenue-on-ios-alone/ https://venturebeat.com/2018/07/30/fortnite-clears-100-milli... [1]: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-08-fortnite-ios-revenue-estimated-at-usd500-million https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-08-fortnite-i...
devit 6y ago
Finally someone stands up to the monopolists!
- superkuh 6y ago
  Right, another monopolist trying to fill their garden. Epic is literally buying the companies behind long established games, removing game support for alternative OSes, and eventually only allowing access from "the epic store". No matter who wins between Epic and Apple human people lose. They're both walled garden monopolists.
  - gsich 6y ago
    Epic has no "walled garden". The PC is an open platform. An iPhone is not. If I don't like the Epic store, I can install software from other sources just fine. Good luck with that on iOS.
    - rurounijones 6y ago
      > I can install software from other sources just fine Not when Epic paid the devs to make them exclusive (either permanently or time-limited): https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/Epic-games-store-exclusives https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/Epic-games-store-exclusives Unless you are referring to warez as the other source, of coursse
      - gsich 6y ago
        I can install software from other sources just fine. Doesn't have to be the same software. But why is having the Epic store such a problem?
        chrismeller 6y ago
        He wasn’t saying the store was a problem, he was saying that having the store with titles you have an exclusive license to is a problem.
ary 6y ago
My guess is that this is a gambit to force Apple’s hand during a time when there is the most intense antitrust pressure over the App Store since it’s launch. If Apple cracks down then it’s just more fuel for the antitrust fire, and potentially evidence in court. If they allow it then it’s precedent that others can use to employ the same tactic. Either way it seems to me Epic is taking a calculated risk to induce change.
- sylens 6y ago
  Exactly my take on it as well. Very interested to see what happens.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Also, the legal standard in the US is laser-focused on whether consumer prices have gone up as a result of a company's practices. What better demonstration could Epic possibly create of how the App Store leads to price increases?
  - jsnell 6y ago
    Except that Epic is using the cheaper prices on consoles, where the platform owner is taking a 30% cut. Clearly Epic's pricing isn't actually driven by the app store costs on mobile platforms.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      Epic doesn't pay Sony and MS 30% for console purchases, as both companies negotiate arrangements with big studios that lowers the rate.
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        Still, it does create a bit of a contradiction. We don't know what Sony and Microsoft charge, but we can reasonably assume it isn't zero, and it's also probably more than whatever Epic pays for their internal payment processing. Epic could still turn around and say "well, the price would be even lower if not for Sony and Microsoft," but I'm not sure how much they want to piss off the console manufacturers, who—all things considered—probably have more power as far as Epic is concerned. The other elephant in the room, IMO, is that V-Bucks don't actually cost Epic anything. They're just bits, and Epic could set the price to whatever they want without much consequence. More than anything else, I see Epic's stunt as a wake-up call. It doesn't quite stand up under scrutiny—but, once you've scrutinized the situation, you can also find better demonstrations of the problem, such as Spotify.
stdgy 6y ago
Ballsy, I love it. Hopefully it can be used as evidence in any antitrust actions against Apple, in the US or abroad. It's clear that Apple's behavior negatively impacts consumer pricing.
hugey010 6y ago
Per the App Store Review guidelines: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#unacceptable https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#una... If payment is taken IN the app, not using Apple Pay, and not to an approved non-profit, it's in direct violation and should be removed. I've had to update multiple apps that took donations, in order to pay for development work, and Apple absolutely won't let that fly anymore. On Apple's behalf, this unacceptable, illegal, and infuriating. I might consider joining a class-action lawsuit like this one: https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/apple-dev/2019-06-04-complaint-apple-developers.pdf https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/apple-dev/201...
- zacwest 6y ago
  Unless you're Amazon, in which case you're absolutely allowed to sell digital goods (e.g. movies, TV shows) without using In-App Purchases. The rules are unfairly applied.
  - rashkov 6y ago
    Are you sure about that? I just checked and I was not able to buy digital goods using the amazon app.
gregoriol 6y ago
This looks great for the future, balsy for sure, but like Hey did. Change is on the way!
minimaxir 6y ago
The Apple/antitrust angle has been covered, but this Direct payment bypass also affects Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and Google. Won't they take issue with it as well?
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  Apparently the cuts that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo take are already acceptable to Epic. The announcement says that those users are getting the discount automatically without taking any action. Starting today, any V-Bucks or real-money offers you purchase on PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Nintendo Switch, PC, and Mac are now discounted by up to 20%. You don’t need to do anything!
  - 013a 6y ago
    Additionally, there's two lines in the article: > If Apple or Google lower their fees on payments in the future, Epic will pass along the savings to you. and > Do you play Fortnite on Android, but don’t purchase through Google Play? No problem! You’ll find that V-Bucks and real-money offers are now discounted by up to 20% through the Epic Games app at epicgames.com and the Samsung Galaxy Store. Both of which strongly hint to the idea that its specifically the rates the Play/App Store charge at issue here, and they likely received discounted rates on competing storefronts by default.
cloudking 6y ago
Maybe the Apple cut is too high, but I don't think it's unreasonable for them to take some cut. They are providing the distribution platform to get your app to millions of users, it's not free for them to provide that service. They have their own server, bandwidth and employee costs too.
- lacker 6y ago
  They forbid you from using any other distribution mechanism on their device, though. The only reason Apple has to pay for App Store overhead for every single app is because Apple mandated it that way.
  - jaegerpicker 6y ago
    It's THEIR platform, they built it, they own it, and there are more popular alternatives. Don't like Apples App Store buy an Android. Don't like Apple's App Store build an app for Android, Web, Console, or PC. No one is forced to make games for Apple. If I build a store and sell goods out of it, I set the terms, no one has the right to walk into that store and tell me I can't take a cut of the profits. Just because the platform is successful doesn't mean you HAVE to have access to it at all or especially on the terms you want. I don't like that I can't just submit a game to the switch store or that they get a cut, no one is claiming it's a monopoly. There is literally no difference other then Apple has been very successful at it.
    - ardit33 6y ago
      You seem young and naive.... For many, their iOS device (iPad or iPhone) is their primary computing device.... it is not like a PS4, which is mainly for games. Back in the 90's If Microsoft didn't get 'checked' with a threat to be broken up, we would have ended up with Pay MSFT 30% tax on every software you installed and purchased. It it time to 'check' both Apple and Google on their practices... In this case, Google at least allows some sideloading, while apple doesn't at all... So, I expect Apple is going to be the losing end of the history... but as long as they can keep doing it, and make profits out of it, they will be doing.
SuperTachyon 6y ago
Epic is conveying that the 30% cut on App Store was raising the prices. But Xbox and PlayStation has the same cut, yet Epic has lower pricing on these platforms.
- uncoder0 6y ago
  Are you sure Epic hasn't negotiated some sort of deal with Xbox and playstation to lower the cut to a more reasonable rate given their volume of transactions.
  - SuperTachyon 6y ago
    That I’m not sure. Do you have any sources?
    - uncoder0 6y ago
      To clarify, I work in the gaming industry and I've heard rumors of large publishers negotiating better terms when they get to a certain magical number of transactions/gross rev. I'm not sure I've read any reporting on it. The sources I heard this from would have been in a position to know but, I can't really point to any hard data. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were true. I've heard it can be as low as 10-15% but again I don't have any evidence on that.
- kevingadd 6y ago
  I don't think it's realistic to assume that 30% of all Fortnite revenues on xbox/playstation is still going to the platform holders. Valve already offers a 20% cut to large-volume titles on Steam, so it's plausible that Epic would have a custom deal with the console vendors.
- Thaxll 6y ago
  Large game have a different cut, imagine Fifa paying 30% on all the FUT transactions ...
blauditore 6y ago
Meanwhile, other apps get banned for having donation buttons.
CreepGin 6y ago
Is it against Apple terms to be offering multiple payment methods?
stephc_int13 6y ago
Tim Cook vs Tim Sweeney, this is a serious round, with possible big implications for many developers and companies. In the end, both Epic and Apple are big corporations that should not be blindly trusted, but my money is on Sweeney, I have greater faith in the uber-nerd vs the perfect production manager.
- giarc 6y ago
  >I have greater faith in the uber-nerd vs the perfect production manager. I have greater faith in the company with over $200 billion cash on hand, that can throw a ton of money at a long drawn out court battle.
LegitShady 6y ago
Tencent will pay to fight this in court forever. Sad to be hoping for epic/tencent to succeed but apples policies are worse.
sawaruna 6y ago
>Does a new payment method on mobile mean purchases there are less safe? >No. Thousands of apps on the App Store approved by Apple accept direct payments, including commonly used apps like Amazon, Grubhub, Nike SNKRS, Best Buy, DoorDash, Fandango, McDonalds, Uber, Lyft, and StubHub. We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps. [0] All of these services provide something physical. You can't buy Kindle Books, for example, on Amazon's app on iOS. This a bit disingenuous. >We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps. Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut? [0] https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/fortnite-mega-drop-faq https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/fortnite-mega-drop-faq
- jsnell 6y ago
  > Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut? AFAIK they've already been allowing use of other payment processors for in-app purchases since last year, and are not taking any cut from those sales. They did actually put their money where their mouth is, on this one.
- milofeynman 6y ago
  Epic doesn't take a cut of virtual currency bought on games in their store. Your comparison doesn't make sense.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  > All of these services provide something physical. You can't buy Kindle Books, for example, on Amazon's app on iOS. This a bit disingenuous. I don't see how it's disingenuous, the question was "are these purchases less safe". They said "No, and here are some examples". Whether the item is physical or not, I don't see how it makes the transaction "less safe"?
  - JimDabell 6y ago
    Physical goods need to be shipped somewhere that a thief can receive them. Digital goods don’t. That makes it much easier and safer to make fraudulent purchases for digital goods.
virtue3 6y ago
I love how they are "passing the savings down to us" from a non existing digital item that they set the price of. Ugh. Anyway, this should be absolutely fascinating to watch how the antitrust cases against the app stores go!
- elwell 6y ago
  That's a little myopic; it's just another business model. They could instead price an app itself at $99 or whatever is desired to support development, marketing, profit, etc costs, and not have any in-app purchases.
  - input_sh 6y ago
    If anything, game companies are doing exactly the opposite by charging full price for a game (mostly ~$60) and filling them up with in-game purchases anyway. Loot boxes, skins and other cosmetics, battle passes, etc.
- tadzik_ 6y ago
  > a non existing digital item That's a weird thing to read in a place populated by software people.
  - nsilvestri 6y ago
    I'm sure you don't have to look too far to find someone who believes all software should be free (and open source).
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Sure, but that doesn't mean this is how all software should be…
- chii 6y ago
  > a non existing digital item that they set the price of. how come you would pay for the sounds recorded off musicians, but not the pictures/animations made by game developers?
Simulacra 6y ago
Apple ain’t gonna like this!
KingOfCoders 6y ago
Couldnt the title be "Epic Direct Payment" on Mobile?
elwell 6y ago
> PERMANENT DISCOUNTS That's a bold promise if Apple shuts the practice down. Will need to go back on the promised permanency or take the loss.
- mehlmao 6y ago
  It's their own virtual currency they're selling, which can only be used in a store they control. I wouldn't be surprised if they raise the prices of items sometime in the future. Also, if a significant amount of purchase volume comes from iOS users, this could save them money.
- La1n 6y ago
  No they don't, cause the discounts don't apply when buying through apple.
- kevingadd 6y ago
  They're doing this because they can afford to take the loss. Fortnite brings in a tremendous amount of money and their margins are good.
huac 6y ago
How are they justifying this? A linked blog post goes into more detail: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epic-direct-payment-on-mobile; https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epi... but it seems like they are extending the payment processing tools which they built for web to mobile. There are loopholes but not clear which one they're claiming to use (if any).
- edm0nd 6y ago
  Fixed URL: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epic-direct-payment-on-mobile https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epi... The ; at the end of yours breaks it
irjustin 6y ago
Isn't the cut 70% for inapp purchases? I'm all for this, but there seems to be a 10% gap?
- mjamesaustin 6y ago
  Right, the implication to me is that Epic believes a 10% fee is reasonable since they say on their website they'll lower prices if Apple lowers its fees. So if Apple reduced fees to 10%, the price to pay with Apple would be the same as it is through Epic direct pay. In other words, Epic doesn't expect a 0% fee.
  - kevingadd 6y ago
    This lines up well with their model for the Epic Games Store on PC - Epic keeps 12% and for games based on Unreal Engine they waive royalties when the copy is sold through their store.
chriswwweb 6y ago
EDIT: interesting, I just found this tweet (https://twitter.com/ballmatthew/status/1293903865557979136 https://twitter.com/ballmatthew/status/1293903865557979136) that mentions other companies like McDonalds and Starbucks are also exempt Indeed this is huge, well it will be huge if the app is still in the store by tomorrow ... I wonder what apple will do? I wonder if apple greenlighted this? If they didn’t get this greenlighted, I wonder how they bypassed the Apples app review process (in app updates instead of a store update?)? I can’t wait to see how all of this unfolds, years ago I was part of a team that built a music app that got refused in the app store because we had included payments via a credit card processor, bypassing the 30% apple tax and today I’m in the process of building another app which is impacted by this … I also imagine companies like spotify are following this very closely
- input_sh 6y ago
  There's a difference between offering physical goods (like McDonalds and Starbucks) vs. digital goods. Both Google and Apple don't allow circumventing their payment mechanism for anything digital (e-books, music, etc.), while showing some lenience for physical ones.
- chriswwweb 6y ago
  > Update 2 > Fortnite is currently unavailable on Google Play. More information will be forthcoming soon. > Update 1 > Apple has blocked your access to Fortnite on iOS devices! Take Action! #FreeFortnite ... well that answers a some of my questions ;)
orliesaurus 6y ago
I wonder if the only reason for having "both" payment systems in place, is some kind of unwritten rule (or secret handshake between Epic Games and their Apple account manager of some sorts) that will allow them to keep Fortnite on the app-store!
gok 6y ago
Curious what Epic would do if game developers started offering an option in their games to just not pay the 5% Unreal Engine tax and passed the savings onto consumers.
- deagle50 6y ago
  1. Big gulf between 5% and 30% 2. Epic doesn't own your customers 3. You don't have to use Unreal Engine.
bassman9000 6y ago
Reminder: Tencent owns 40% of Epic. https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-invested-in/ https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-... Their dumping power can be almost limitless.
rsweeney21 6y ago
Epic is declaring war on app store fees and other monopolistic app store practices. Tim Sweeney (no relation) has been a very vocal opponent of the app store practices of Apple and Google. He views them as monopolistic and anti-competitive. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1289611397702197248 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/128961139770219724... https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1289227550431031296 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/128922755043103129... https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1288521230702739457 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/128852123070273945... My inside sources tell me that this move is intended to start a legal battle with Apple and Google. I really love Epic.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deagle50 6y ago
Shots fired. Optimal time to strike right after the hearings.
dangoor 6y ago
If you squint, this is kind of like the deal that Apple made with Amazon so that you can use your card-on-file with Amazon to rent videos via Prime Video: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/apple-agreement-with-amazon-lets-you-rent-movies-through-prime-video.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/apple-agreement-with-amazon-...
binthere 6y ago
If I'm a small developer, how can I process payments directly without having to pay the fee to another provider?
andjd 6y ago
It looks like Apple has already pulled fortnite from the app store
- rhencke 6y ago
  Source?
  - teej 6y ago
    https://mobile.twitter.com/markgurman/status/1293984069722636288 https://mobile.twitter.com/markgurman/status/129398406972263... Their app store link doesn't work https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fortnite/id1261357853 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fortnite/id1261357853
arberx 6y ago
And Fortnite just got removed from the App Store.
- EE84M3i 6y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-i...
trollied 6y ago
Fortnite has been removed from the App Store as a result. Things are about to get interesting.
skizm 6y ago
Epic: Apple employs anti-competitive, anti-consumer practices, and we're fighting against that! Also Epic: We'll be locking as many games as we can afford behind Epic Store exclusive contracts since our store isn't good enough to compete with Steam on functionality or price.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  Epic isn't forcing developers to put their game on the Epic store.
  - coders 6y ago
    Apple isn't forcing game developers to put their games in Apple App store. Go build on android.
vini 6y ago
Epic already had a lawsuit ready for this: https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293994211621167105 https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293994211621167105
alkonaut 6y ago
If fortnite had an alternative payment method that wasn't exposed in the iOS app (e.g. only on the web, but you would buy credits that you could use in the app) then I don't see how Apple would have a leg to stand on.
coders 6y ago
I'm with Apple on this. It's their App store, if you don't like it - don't build business around the platform. There are ton of other alternatives.

414 points by bdz 6y ago

bdz 6y ago

Curious how this will play out because they explicitly bypass both Google and Apple

b3lvedere 6y ago
Oh they knew this way before they activated this.
safog 6y ago
Probably pushing it intentionally given the recent antitrust discussions. Worst case for them, they get banned from the store for a bit until they take that option down.
- dannyr 6y ago
  Sadly, it's gonna take a while before actual legislation is enacted. If Fortnite gets banned, they'll stay that way for a long time unless they remove direct payment.
  - krisgee 6y ago
    I'd assume that the move would be to take the option out then file an anti-trust suit.
  - ckocagil 6y ago
    Even if that happens Epic still wins. Customers will no longer get their discount and will blame Apple for it.
meheleventyone 6y ago
That’s the point right? It’s a direct swing at a topic Tim Sweeney has been very vocal about.
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  He’s only vocal because he wants to be valve. He plays his dirty to win market share.
  - meheleventyone 6y ago
    I don’t think this benefits the Epic Store itself directly? And what’s wrong with a competitor to Steam?
    - philliphaydon 6y ago
      Competition is great. But epics approach is dirty. A false hero to Developers and publishers.
riq_ 6y ago
From the announcement, V-Bucks are 20% cheaper (... when purchased from epicstore I guess...). So, you use your browser, login to epicstore with your account, purchase v-bucks at 20% discount and you use those v-bucks in all Epic Games regardless the platform.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  It's not an issue that [insert digital good here] is cheaper on the seller's website than in the Apple App Store. What Apple prohibits you from is telling your client that the [insert digital good here] is available for purchase somewhere else or that there's a special kind of a markup on the App Store option.
  - hugey010 6y ago
    I don't think that's entirely true. Apps can use SMS or open the OS browser to accept payments and not be in direct violation of the guidelines.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      >Apps can use SMS or open the OS browser to accept payments and not be in direct violation of the guidelines. Which apps are allowed to open the browser for payments? I don't think even Netflix isn't allowed to do it. They just say "You can't make an account in the app" (paraphrasing) on the sign in page.
      - hugey010 6y ago
        I'm under the impression anything done outside the app doesn't really fall under App Review territory. Embedding a UIWebView is considered in-app, and an embedded SFSafariViewController has slightly different rules.
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  No if you have a payment method setup you can pay using it directly from the apps themselves: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epic-direct-payment-on-mobile https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epi... Then in the app the Apple/Play payment method is explicitly not discounted.

epaga 6y ago

My money is on Apple cracking down hard on this. It looks clearly as if Epic remotely activated this direct payment option, thereby bypassing Apple's App Review. Apple will not take kindly to this. Best case scenario for Epic (and Fortnite players): they invite Sweeney in for some hard negotiations. Worst case: Fortnite ends up getting removed from iOS for this.

coldcode 6y ago
Pull it is exactly what I would do. Apple gets a cut of the paid apps, but $0 from free apps who show ads. Take away getting a cut from the paid apps then free apps suddenly cost the developers money—no more free apps. Imagine going to Walmart and telling them what you want them to give you all the revenue. Walmart will tell you exactly what they want to pay you, or you can leave. Maybe 30% is too much, but 0% is a terrible idea. In the old days before the web I had to pay up to 70% for distribution for my apps. If I was lucky I might get my cut 3-6 months later, plus I had to pay for the packaging and shipping to the warehouse and take it back if they didn't sell enough. 30% seems like a bargain.
- mehlmao 6y ago
  Exactly, in the days before the web. The majority of software sold for computers isn't sold through the Microsoft store or Apple store, it's through other channels with much lower costs. Apple won't let you load apps onto the hardware you own unless they go through the App store and pay the Apple tax. Developers (and users) shouldn't settle for "better than retail, even if it's worse than the open web".
- nightski 6y ago
  The problem is that the app store is an artificial market. It's entirely possible to load apps on a phone without an app store or any of the infrastructure it provides. There is no reason our phones need to be so locked down today that they only allow apps to be easily installed via the app store. Instead the app store should be able to stand on it's own and developers should be able to decide if the exposure gained by it is worth the cost.
- 6y ago

dingdongding 6y ago

Yeah I wonder they did a backroom deal with Apple and Google. These backroom deals that Apple/Google are doing is so anti competitive for small app developers and they keep on stressing that they are helping millions of developers. If this is not unfair I don't know what is.

drchopchop 6y ago
That seems unlikely considering the way that UX looks? They are actively pushing people away from the App Store flow.
krisgee 6y ago
Even if they did this is now an argument that the app store review process is not "fairly applied" which will be noticed in the current environment.

theli0nheart 6y ago

This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple's anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers. If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not taking anything off the top here; they make the same amount of money whether consumers choose to purchase through the App Store or through Epic's direct payment system. If they keep Fortnite on the App Store, they're going to need to make a rule change to allow alternative payment methods within apps. One of Apple's main defenses during antitrust hearings was that App Review applies rules fairly and consistently. If they don't change the rules, that argument falls dead in the water. Epic leadership knows that this is going to cause a firestorm. I'm happy that a large company with market power decided this was the right time to do this. I doubt Apple and Epic worked together on this; there's no way that this doesn't completely embarrass Apple and its App Store policies. It will be exciting to see how this plays out, but my bet is that this is going to lead to a huge win for Apple developers.

lifty 6y ago
I bet that Epic execs also talked behind the scene with other execs in the industry to garner support in case Apple cracks down hard on Epic and removes Fortnite from the app store. If more studios/developers join the cause, they can definitely apply big pressure on Apple.
- uncoder0 6y ago
  Many mobile games are built on unreal. They could make this an option for developers to simply 'turn on' in their mobile games built on their engine.
- kingbirdy 6y ago
  Fortnite is popular enough to count as "big pressure" all on its own. I couldn't find recent numbers, but as of 2018 they had over 100M installs and were doing over $1M/day in revenue[0] and by early 2019 they'd already done more than half a billion[1]. [0]: https://venturebeat.com/2018/07/30/fortnite-clears-100-million-downloads-and-160-million-in-revenue-on-ios-alone/ https://venturebeat.com/2018/07/30/fortnite-clears-100-milli... [1]: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-08-fortnite-ios-revenue-estimated-at-usd500-million https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-08-fortnite-i...

devit 6y ago

Finally someone stands up to the monopolists!

superkuh 6y ago
Right, another monopolist trying to fill their garden. Epic is literally buying the companies behind long established games, removing game support for alternative OSes, and eventually only allowing access from "the epic store". No matter who wins between Epic and Apple human people lose. They're both walled garden monopolists.
- gsich 6y ago
  Epic has no "walled garden". The PC is an open platform. An iPhone is not. If I don't like the Epic store, I can install software from other sources just fine. Good luck with that on iOS.
  - rurounijones 6y ago
    > I can install software from other sources just fine Not when Epic paid the devs to make them exclusive (either permanently or time-limited): https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/Epic-games-store-exclusives https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/Epic-games-store-exclusives Unless you are referring to warez as the other source, of coursse
    - gsich 6y ago
      I can install software from other sources just fine. Doesn't have to be the same software. But why is having the Epic store such a problem?
      - chrismeller 6y ago
        He wasn’t saying the store was a problem, he was saying that having the store with titles you have an exclusive license to is a problem.

ary 6y ago

My guess is that this is a gambit to force Apple’s hand during a time when there is the most intense antitrust pressure over the App Store since it’s launch. If Apple cracks down then it’s just more fuel for the antitrust fire, and potentially evidence in court. If they allow it then it’s precedent that others can use to employ the same tactic. Either way it seems to me Epic is taking a calculated risk to induce change.

sylens 6y ago
Exactly my take on it as well. Very interested to see what happens.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Also, the legal standard in the US is laser-focused on whether consumer prices have gone up as a result of a company's practices. What better demonstration could Epic possibly create of how the App Store leads to price increases?
- jsnell 6y ago
  Except that Epic is using the cheaper prices on consoles, where the platform owner is taking a 30% cut. Clearly Epic's pricing isn't actually driven by the app store costs on mobile platforms.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    Epic doesn't pay Sony and MS 30% for console purchases, as both companies negotiate arrangements with big studios that lowers the rate.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      Still, it does create a bit of a contradiction. We don't know what Sony and Microsoft charge, but we can reasonably assume it isn't zero, and it's also probably more than whatever Epic pays for their internal payment processing. Epic could still turn around and say "well, the price would be even lower if not for Sony and Microsoft," but I'm not sure how much they want to piss off the console manufacturers, who—all things considered—probably have more power as far as Epic is concerned. The other elephant in the room, IMO, is that V-Bucks don't actually cost Epic anything. They're just bits, and Epic could set the price to whatever they want without much consequence. More than anything else, I see Epic's stunt as a wake-up call. It doesn't quite stand up under scrutiny—but, once you've scrutinized the situation, you can also find better demonstrations of the problem, such as Spotify.

stdgy 6y ago

Ballsy, I love it. Hopefully it can be used as evidence in any antitrust actions against Apple, in the US or abroad. It's clear that Apple's behavior negatively impacts consumer pricing.

hugey010 6y ago

Per the App Store Review guidelines: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#unacceptable https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#una... If payment is taken IN the app, not using Apple Pay, and not to an approved non-profit, it's in direct violation and should be removed. I've had to update multiple apps that took donations, in order to pay for development work, and Apple absolutely won't let that fly anymore. On Apple's behalf, this unacceptable, illegal, and infuriating. I might consider joining a class-action lawsuit like this one: https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/apple-dev/2019-06-04-complaint-apple-developers.pdf https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/apple-dev/201...

zacwest 6y ago
Unless you're Amazon, in which case you're absolutely allowed to sell digital goods (e.g. movies, TV shows) without using In-App Purchases. The rules are unfairly applied.
- rashkov 6y ago
  Are you sure about that? I just checked and I was not able to buy digital goods using the amazon app.

gregoriol 6y ago

This looks great for the future, balsy for sure, but like Hey did. Change is on the way!

minimaxir 6y ago

The Apple/antitrust angle has been covered, but this Direct payment bypass also affects Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and Google. Won't they take issue with it as well?

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
Apparently the cuts that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo take are already acceptable to Epic. The announcement says that those users are getting the discount automatically without taking any action. Starting today, any V-Bucks or real-money offers you purchase on PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Nintendo Switch, PC, and Mac are now discounted by up to 20%. You don’t need to do anything!
- 013a 6y ago
  Additionally, there's two lines in the article: > If Apple or Google lower their fees on payments in the future, Epic will pass along the savings to you. and > Do you play Fortnite on Android, but don’t purchase through Google Play? No problem! You’ll find that V-Bucks and real-money offers are now discounted by up to 20% through the Epic Games app at epicgames.com and the Samsung Galaxy Store. Both of which strongly hint to the idea that its specifically the rates the Play/App Store charge at issue here, and they likely received discounted rates on competing storefronts by default.

cloudking 6y ago

Maybe the Apple cut is too high, but I don't think it's unreasonable for them to take some cut. They are providing the distribution platform to get your app to millions of users, it's not free for them to provide that service. They have their own server, bandwidth and employee costs too.

lacker 6y ago
They forbid you from using any other distribution mechanism on their device, though. The only reason Apple has to pay for App Store overhead for every single app is because Apple mandated it that way.
- jaegerpicker 6y ago
  It's THEIR platform, they built it, they own it, and there are more popular alternatives. Don't like Apples App Store buy an Android. Don't like Apple's App Store build an app for Android, Web, Console, or PC. No one is forced to make games for Apple. If I build a store and sell goods out of it, I set the terms, no one has the right to walk into that store and tell me I can't take a cut of the profits. Just because the platform is successful doesn't mean you HAVE to have access to it at all or especially on the terms you want. I don't like that I can't just submit a game to the switch store or that they get a cut, no one is claiming it's a monopoly. There is literally no difference other then Apple has been very successful at it.
  - ardit33 6y ago
    You seem young and naive.... For many, their iOS device (iPad or iPhone) is their primary computing device.... it is not like a PS4, which is mainly for games. Back in the 90's If Microsoft didn't get 'checked' with a threat to be broken up, we would have ended up with Pay MSFT 30% tax on every software you installed and purchased. It it time to 'check' both Apple and Google on their practices... In this case, Google at least allows some sideloading, while apple doesn't at all... So, I expect Apple is going to be the losing end of the history... but as long as they can keep doing it, and make profits out of it, they will be doing.

SuperTachyon 6y ago

Epic is conveying that the 30% cut on App Store was raising the prices. But Xbox and PlayStation has the same cut, yet Epic has lower pricing on these platforms.

uncoder0 6y ago
Are you sure Epic hasn't negotiated some sort of deal with Xbox and playstation to lower the cut to a more reasonable rate given their volume of transactions.
- SuperTachyon 6y ago
  That I’m not sure. Do you have any sources?
  - uncoder0 6y ago
    To clarify, I work in the gaming industry and I've heard rumors of large publishers negotiating better terms when they get to a certain magical number of transactions/gross rev. I'm not sure I've read any reporting on it. The sources I heard this from would have been in a position to know but, I can't really point to any hard data. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were true. I've heard it can be as low as 10-15% but again I don't have any evidence on that.
kevingadd 6y ago
I don't think it's realistic to assume that 30% of all Fortnite revenues on xbox/playstation is still going to the platform holders. Valve already offers a 20% cut to large-volume titles on Steam, so it's plausible that Epic would have a custom deal with the console vendors.
Thaxll 6y ago
Large game have a different cut, imagine Fifa paying 30% on all the FUT transactions ...

blauditore 6y ago

Meanwhile, other apps get banned for having donation buttons.

CreepGin 6y ago

Is it against Apple terms to be offering multiple payment methods?

stephc_int13 6y ago

Tim Cook vs Tim Sweeney, this is a serious round, with possible big implications for many developers and companies. In the end, both Epic and Apple are big corporations that should not be blindly trusted, but my money is on Sweeney, I have greater faith in the uber-nerd vs the perfect production manager.

giarc 6y ago
>I have greater faith in the uber-nerd vs the perfect production manager. I have greater faith in the company with over $200 billion cash on hand, that can throw a ton of money at a long drawn out court battle.

LegitShady 6y ago

Tencent will pay to fight this in court forever. Sad to be hoping for epic/tencent to succeed but apples policies are worse.

sawaruna 6y ago

>Does a new payment method on mobile mean purchases there are less safe? >No. Thousands of apps on the App Store approved by Apple accept direct payments, including commonly used apps like Amazon, Grubhub, Nike SNKRS, Best Buy, DoorDash, Fandango, McDonalds, Uber, Lyft, and StubHub. We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps. [0] All of these services provide something physical. You can't buy Kindle Books, for example, on Amazon's app on iOS. This a bit disingenuous. >We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps. Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut? [0] https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/fortnite-mega-drop-faq https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/fortnite-mega-drop-faq

jsnell 6y ago
> Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut? AFAIK they've already been allowing use of other payment processors for in-app purchases since last year, and are not taking any cut from those sales. They did actually put their money where their mouth is, on this one.
milofeynman 6y ago
Epic doesn't take a cut of virtual currency bought on games in their store. Your comparison doesn't make sense.
nrmitchi 6y ago
> All of these services provide something physical. You can't buy Kindle Books, for example, on Amazon's app on iOS. This a bit disingenuous. I don't see how it's disingenuous, the question was "are these purchases less safe". They said "No, and here are some examples". Whether the item is physical or not, I don't see how it makes the transaction "less safe"?
- JimDabell 6y ago
  Physical goods need to be shipped somewhere that a thief can receive them. Digital goods don’t. That makes it much easier and safer to make fraudulent purchases for digital goods.

virtue3 6y ago

I love how they are "passing the savings down to us" from a non existing digital item that they set the price of. Ugh. Anyway, this should be absolutely fascinating to watch how the antitrust cases against the app stores go!

elwell 6y ago
That's a little myopic; it's just another business model. They could instead price an app itself at $99 or whatever is desired to support development, marketing, profit, etc costs, and not have any in-app purchases.
- input_sh 6y ago
  If anything, game companies are doing exactly the opposite by charging full price for a game (mostly ~$60) and filling them up with in-game purchases anyway. Loot boxes, skins and other cosmetics, battle passes, etc.
tadzik_ 6y ago
> a non existing digital item That's a weird thing to read in a place populated by software people.
- nsilvestri 6y ago
  I'm sure you don't have to look too far to find someone who believes all software should be free (and open source).
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Sure, but that doesn't mean this is how all software should be…
chii 6y ago
> a non existing digital item that they set the price of. how come you would pay for the sounds recorded off musicians, but not the pictures/animations made by game developers?

Simulacra 6y ago

Apple ain’t gonna like this!

KingOfCoders 6y ago

Couldnt the title be "Epic Direct Payment" on Mobile?

elwell 6y ago

> PERMANENT DISCOUNTS That's a bold promise if Apple shuts the practice down. Will need to go back on the promised permanency or take the loss.

mehlmao 6y ago
It's their own virtual currency they're selling, which can only be used in a store they control. I wouldn't be surprised if they raise the prices of items sometime in the future. Also, if a significant amount of purchase volume comes from iOS users, this could save them money.
La1n 6y ago
No they don't, cause the discounts don't apply when buying through apple.
kevingadd 6y ago
They're doing this because they can afford to take the loss. Fortnite brings in a tremendous amount of money and their margins are good.

huac 6y ago

How are they justifying this? A linked blog post goes into more detail: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epic-direct-payment-on-mobile; https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epi... but it seems like they are extending the payment processing tools which they built for web to mobile. There are loopholes but not clear which one they're claiming to use (if any).

edm0nd 6y ago
Fixed URL: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epic-direct-payment-on-mobile https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epi... The ; at the end of yours breaks it

irjustin 6y ago

Isn't the cut 70% for inapp purchases? I'm all for this, but there seems to be a 10% gap?

mjamesaustin 6y ago
Right, the implication to me is that Epic believes a 10% fee is reasonable since they say on their website they'll lower prices if Apple lowers its fees. So if Apple reduced fees to 10%, the price to pay with Apple would be the same as it is through Epic direct pay. In other words, Epic doesn't expect a 0% fee.
- kevingadd 6y ago
  This lines up well with their model for the Epic Games Store on PC - Epic keeps 12% and for games based on Unreal Engine they waive royalties when the copy is sold through their store.

chriswwweb 6y ago

EDIT: interesting, I just found this tweet (https://twitter.com/ballmatthew/status/1293903865557979136 https://twitter.com/ballmatthew/status/1293903865557979136) that mentions other companies like McDonalds and Starbucks are also exempt Indeed this is huge, well it will be huge if the app is still in the store by tomorrow ... I wonder what apple will do? I wonder if apple greenlighted this? If they didn’t get this greenlighted, I wonder how they bypassed the Apples app review process (in app updates instead of a store update?)? I can’t wait to see how all of this unfolds, years ago I was part of a team that built a music app that got refused in the app store because we had included payments via a credit card processor, bypassing the 30% apple tax and today I’m in the process of building another app which is impacted by this … I also imagine companies like spotify are following this very closely

input_sh 6y ago
There's a difference between offering physical goods (like McDonalds and Starbucks) vs. digital goods. Both Google and Apple don't allow circumventing their payment mechanism for anything digital (e-books, music, etc.), while showing some lenience for physical ones.
chriswwweb 6y ago
> Update 2 > Fortnite is currently unavailable on Google Play. More information will be forthcoming soon. > Update 1 > Apple has blocked your access to Fortnite on iOS devices! Take Action! #FreeFortnite ... well that answers a some of my questions ;)

orliesaurus 6y ago

I wonder if the only reason for having "both" payment systems in place, is some kind of unwritten rule (or secret handshake between Epic Games and their Apple account manager of some sorts) that will allow them to keep Fortnite on the app-store!

gok 6y ago

Curious what Epic would do if game developers started offering an option in their games to just not pay the 5% Unreal Engine tax and passed the savings onto consumers.

deagle50 6y ago
1. Big gulf between 5% and 30% 2. Epic doesn't own your customers 3. You don't have to use Unreal Engine.

bassman9000 6y ago

Reminder: Tencent owns 40% of Epic. https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-invested-in/ https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-... Their dumping power can be almost limitless.

rsweeney21 6y ago

Epic is declaring war on app store fees and other monopolistic app store practices. Tim Sweeney (no relation) has been a very vocal opponent of the app store practices of Apple and Google. He views them as monopolistic and anti-competitive. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1289611397702197248 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/128961139770219724... https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1289227550431031296 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/128922755043103129... https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1288521230702739457 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/128852123070273945... My inside sources tell me that this move is intended to start a legal battle with Apple and Google. I really love Epic.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

deagle50 6y ago

Shots fired. Optimal time to strike right after the hearings.

dangoor 6y ago

If you squint, this is kind of like the deal that Apple made with Amazon so that you can use your card-on-file with Amazon to rent videos via Prime Video: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/apple-agreement-with-amazon-lets-you-rent-movies-through-prime-video.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/apple-agreement-with-amazon-...

binthere 6y ago

If I'm a small developer, how can I process payments directly without having to pay the fee to another provider?

andjd 6y ago

It looks like Apple has already pulled fortnite from the app store

rhencke 6y ago
Source?
- teej 6y ago
  https://mobile.twitter.com/markgurman/status/1293984069722636288 https://mobile.twitter.com/markgurman/status/129398406972263... Their app store link doesn't work https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fortnite/id1261357853 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fortnite/id1261357853

arberx 6y ago

And Fortnite just got removed from the App Store.

EE84M3i 6y ago
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-i...

trollied 6y ago

Fortnite has been removed from the App Store as a result. Things are about to get interesting.

skizm 6y ago

Epic: Apple employs anti-competitive, anti-consumer practices, and we're fighting against that! Also Epic: We'll be locking as many games as we can afford behind Epic Store exclusive contracts since our store isn't good enough to compete with Steam on functionality or price.

colinmhayes 6y ago
Epic isn't forcing developers to put their game on the Epic store.
- coders 6y ago
  Apple isn't forcing game developers to put their games in Apple App store. Go build on android.

vini 6y ago

Epic already had a lawsuit ready for this: https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293994211621167105 https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293994211621167105

alkonaut 6y ago

If fortnite had an alternative payment method that wasn't exposed in the iOS app (e.g. only on the web, but you would buy credits that you could use in the app) then I don't see how Apple would have a leg to stand on.

coders 6y ago

I'm with Apple on this. It's their App store, if you don't like it - don't build business around the platform. There are ton of other alternatives.