72 ms·
TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources
- djim 6y agowhat about not collecting user data? isnt that better than msft collecting it?
- andrewPP 6y agoUs companies like Facebook and Twitter had a chance to operate in China as long as they were willing to follow local laws/policies; they were banned because they didn’t want to cooperate. On the other hand, TikTok seems willing to obey us laws and is bringing its team/data center into the us. Banning TikTok in spite of that sounds similar to injecting disinfectant for COVID
- sergiotapia 6y agoChina is a communist regime. They can do whatever the hell they want, why would american companies spend any time conforming to their demands when they can pull the rug out from under them at any time. Also, they would be under their total control forever.
- sukilot 6y agoAmerican companies do it for money. Companies like major movie studios, sports leagues, operating system vendors, search engine providers
- andrewPP 6y agoMany american companies seem to collaborate successfully with this communist regime including but not limited to Apple, Microsoft, Amazon. Even Google still has Google Ads platform operating in China.
- patrickaljord 6y ago> when they can pull the rug out from under them at any time Are you talking about the US or China governement?
- throwaway423342 6y ago> They can do whatever the hell they want, why would american companies spend any time conforming to their demands when they can pull the rug out from under them at any time. I think you just described the US
- sergiotapia 6y agoYou can literally stand in front of the white house and call president trump whatever you want. Nobody is going to stop you. Go stand in front of the white house with a picture of trump calling him a cheeto or whatever, you're fine. You cannot even call the chinese dictator winnie the pooh online in china, or you get gulag'd.
- throwaway423342 6y agoNope, this is not related to what we were talking about. Should I bring up these in talking about the tiktok buyout? - I can't breathe - BLM Enjoy attacking the straw man.
- dusing 6y agoOwned by the CCP therefore not capable of following US law.
- andrewPP 6y agoThe TikTok app is served by the US data center operated by a team in the US. If they violate any US law, federal regulators can find out and punish TikTok based on evidence like how they fined Facebook. Being owned by the CCP doesn't mean that they cannot obey US law. And it is really hard to imagine how CCP can harm the interests of the US people with those short fun videos. Does Trump believe virus spreads via these short videos?
- dusing 6y agoDirect database access as required by the CCP
- bitxbitxbitcoin 6y agoThat's one way to avoid a US ban.
- clashmeifyoucan 6y agoyeah and I guess it makes sense in the aspect that they're trying to survive however they can.
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoThat seems like a bit of an overreaction on the company’s part though, doesn’t it? It’s not at all clear that the president had a legal avenue to ban the service, and he has certainly said a lot of outlandish things that don’t come to pass.
- rydre 6y ago[deleted]
- TMWNN 6y ago>Better to throw away the US TikTok company at this point. It's clear the American general public, Trump and US government does not like dominant foreign social media companies in the US. This would not be happening were TikTok German, French, British, Taiwanese, Korean, Japanese, etc. Just Chinese and Russian.
- clashmeifyoucan 6y agoIt seems less about the app itself than it does about China. It's so passive aggressive it reminds me of middle school.
- ecf 6y agoThis is what a lot companies who do business in China have to go through. For example, Activision-Blizzard are pretty much fully separated from The9, which is the only authorized distributor for World of Warcraft in China. Edit: Apologies, the source I was looking at was outdated and NetEase is the current distributor for WoW in China.
- praveen9920 6y agoTrump's grudge on Tiktok users apart, could this be a plot of hostile take over? With all the public threats ByteDance is receiving from president of USA, Msft or any other company which acquires, gets one of the biggest social networking site of the decade at give away price.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoWe may never know the history definitively, but it's likely the sale would have been under discussion for months, from when politicians were strongly indicating that TikTok's ownership structure wouldn't be acceptable in the long term but hadn't announced any concrete action. These kinds of huge deals can only be constructed so quickly, even under time pressure.
- bitxbit 6y agoI don’t think it’s at a discount at all. They’re effectively selling it at the height of the market. Even if they cut valuation in half, it’d still be at a significant premium.
- justinzollars 6y agoDisagree. I think it is a discount. From my understanding the business was not for sale until this executive order.
- eli 6y agoIt’d be the height of the market if they weren’t forced to sell too, they’d just also be in a much stronger bargaining position.
- DabbyDabberson 6y agoI feel like sentiment was similar for when FB bought IG for $1B. Today, we would all agree that was vastly under priced.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- liuliu 6y agoJust echo back on U.S. doesn't have precedents of blocking software in the article. I don't think that's true. U.S. has both means (file request to Apple and Google to pull software off the shelf, remove the domain from root DNS etc) and done these before for piracy and other reasons.
- eli 6y agoWhat does “file a request” mean here? Send a letter asking?
- liuliu 6y agoDMCA is for one. I am not sure for "national security" reasons what options would be. It is definitely challenging to come up with excuses within rules of law. I would imagine that some combinations of failures to meet FCC regulation and "immediate" national security threat probably would do the trick. There is no guarantee that Apple AppStore or Google Play Store won't make a stand and challenge these requests in court though.
- wallacoloo 6y agoRemember when we banned the export of cryptographic software routines, because they’re a form of armament? There’s loads of precedent, we just quickly forget. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_...
- Waterluvian 6y agoAt what point do the big tech companies see the real threat of Trump and begin actively campaigning against him? Feels like they have immense power if they decided to act politically.
- Ericson2314 6y agoIn general, multinationals could more actively cede their host nation. My guess is we'd see less restrained behavior from corporations if Trump wins a second term for a variety of reasons.
- gukov 6y agoEric Schmidt worked on Hillary's campaign in 2016[1] so it's not out of the realm of possibility that it's already been happening. [1] https://qz.com/823922/eric-schmidt-played-a-crucial-role-in-team-hillarys-election-tech/ https://qz.com/823922/eric-schmidt-played-a-crucial-role-in-...
- throwlogon 6y agoI don't know why this is getting downvoted; companies in other sectors (e.g. oil) get involved in US politics regularly. But there's little precedent for media companies to take action in US politics overtly. (IANAL, but I suspect there are legal impediments as well). Taking a political stand, or providing support for one side, might force big tech companies to resolve the ambiguity as to whether they're media companies or not. EDIT: Actually maybe there is nothing stopping tech companies from choosing a side; apparently media companies do make political contribitions: https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/08/news-corps-million-dollar-donation/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/08/news-corps-million-... EDIT 2: I can see I've accidentally opened a can of worms about biased coverage and editorials; but my usage of "support" was intended as overt and consistent involvement in political campaigning, generally through donations. And to my surprise, that does occur.
- qppo 6y agoThere is extreme precedent, media companies have been political for their entire history. They're pretty tame today for what it's worth, William Randolph Hearst started a war to sell newspapers.
- ETHisso2017 6y agoI'd like to see any YC users come by and claim the US has a "free market" at this point.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- BoiledCabbage 6y agoThe hypocrisy in YC isn't this. It's that people argue the virtues of "free-markets" while simultaneously arguing the most valuable thing any business should build is a "moat". It the utter acknowledgment that avoiding/prevent competition is the way to be successful, while arguing that free markets enforce competition. Its blatantly obvious that network effects, exclusivity contracts and monopolies exist. And well and market dominance leads to more dominance by purchasing any future competitive business. And yet claim most success comes from marker efficiency. Taking a non-tech example. Madden is getting closer to a 20 year exclusive license NFL on consoles. No game can compete with made up teams and rosters. The product is stagnant, innovation a dump and yet this continuous aspect of "free-market" is ignored.
- KoftaBob 6y agoI think you’re conflating a “free market” with a “perfectly competitive market”. By and large, the US is a free market with your obvious government regulations. However, it’s not a perfectly competitive market because of the things you mentioned. Because a true “perfectly competitive market” is almost impossible to achieve, no nation’s economy is, but some are closer to it than others. Perfect competition benefits the consumers most, while network effects, exclusivity contracts, and monopolies obviously benefit the companies more. One of the biggest goals of US government economic regulations (at least ideally) is to steer the market as close to a perfectly competitive market as possible. Companies optimize in the other direction, and try to make their market less competitive despite those regulations. This dynamic doesn’t mean it’s not a free market, it just means that we need regulations to counteract the forces of companies and keep it competitive. This is why I find it misguided when people want a totally libertarian system with no regulations, because that will inevitably lead to a less competitive/efficient market.
- dannyr 6y agoSo how will this work? Will there be 2 apps? Tiktok US and Tiktok for the rest of the world?
- smrk007 6y agoOr even a TikTok China and TikTok for the rest of the world? (Considering the ban of TikTok in India and the perceived threat of TikTok amongst several other countries as well.)
- dragonwriter 6y ago> Or even a TikTok China and TikTok for the rest of the world? TikTok is banned in China, Douyin (also owned by ByteDance) is effectively “TikTok China”.
- smrk007 6y agoInteresting. Thank you for clearing that up.
- homarp 6y ago"TikTok China" exists already, it's Douyin. It was there first (2016). Bytedance created TikTok as "international" Douyin in 2017, then merged it with musical.ly.
- homarp 6y agoHidden forces behind Toutiao: China’s content king - https://www.ycombinator.com/library/3x-hidden-forces-behind-toutiao-china-s-content-king https://www.ycombinator.com/library/3x-hidden-forces-behind-... is an interesting read.
- baybal2 6y agoToo much hype. 2 reasons for the meteoric rise: Super duper aggressive marketing spend, akin Apple's iphone rollout. A long going murmur about them using funny accounting to drive their valuation into stratosphere, and use it to raise money. "Machine learning" and everything else all fluff. I can pretty much imagine something akin to page rank for videos being used, with some perceptrons sprinkled on top.
- CyanLite4 6y agoTrump seems intent on this because of the Tulsa Rally fiasco. But at what point does it backfire on him? Tens of millions of pissed off 18yr olds could easily sway the election. Meanwhile, Microsoft has quietly avoided the anti-trust spotlight recently yet has acquired github, LinkedIn, and now a social network that could rival Facebook. Satya Nadella is a genius.
- eanzenberg 6y agoSo you’re condoning foreign election interference now? Which is it? Pick a side.
- kyawzazaw 6y ago18yr old are hopefully not pissed off primarily stemming from the ban of this one app. Regardless, young population have historically been absent from voting.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- samstave 6y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news_but_tbh_if_you_have_tiktiok_just_get/?sort=top https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news...
- sergiotapia 6y ago"removed by mods" - exactly why I deleted my reddit account. They were conditioning children and young people to be okay with censorship.
- dimator 6y agoThe thread seems available to me. The YouTube link is broken, which is on YouTube's side.
- pknerd 6y agoUS is doing with China what China did with them. American VCs and business men used to criticize and mock Chinese government for it. Since US is following the footsteps of China, I wonder whether Chinese will be doing what US VCs did?
- jorblumesea 6y agoI don't think the US is necessarily doing it permanently. Likely this is a short term geopolitical tactic to get China to play a little fairer on the field. It was always weird how this double standard existed where China would block Western companies but demand free access to Western markets. This is just tit for tat. Also, I don't think this is a "Trump" thing (although he has accelerated the process), relations between the US and China were already on the decline starting with Obama's first term. I don't think it will be successful, I think China has made it very clear they will continue to play the US time and time again until they are dominant. The CCP will accept nothing but that. But that's the thinking behind the current moves.
- xeromal 6y agoOh how the turn tables
- vmception 6y agoCareful there, someone is going to dismiss your completely valid observation because it happens to be a geopolitical context.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- bigpumpkin 6y agoAirBnB's business in China doesn't look so attractive anymore.
- NicoJuicy 6y agoChina shouldn't expect a free pass while it continues to abuse global trading.
- eanzenberg 6y agoSo tiktok, aka the CCP, are actively trying to sway the US election. I recall the past 3 years were spent hearing people lament about foreign interference in our democratic system. But now the ACLU says it’s ok? Which is it? Pick a side.
- xeromal 6y agoSo is there going to be a US TikTok and a World TikTok?
- sn_master 6y agoThere has been a China version of so many apps and websites for a very long time, where China companies have to have full control of the data. US is doing to China what China been doing to US companies since forever. In Amazon, Microsoft etc, US engineers of those companies aren't allowed to access the China servers directly and have to go through the Chinese operators.
- dilap 6y agoAnother viewpoint is the US is doing to its citizens what China has been doing to its citizens since forever. I don't see that as a good development!
- sn_master 6y agoHaving US data in US hands doesn't seem like a terrible development to me. In China, the relationship between tech companies and the government is very close, and none would question any data requests. Its nothing like Apple which openly fights the US government in the supreme court..
- dilap 6y agoApple fights to not be forced to unlock phones, which is admirable, but they'll happily turn over your iCloud data. To me the greater outrage is that the president can arbitrarily decide which apps citizens may or may not use. I would like to make that choice for myself, thank you very much.
- sn_master 6y agoIs that an abuse of power? Probably yes. Do I agree with it? Absolutely yes, because it is for the greater good of the citizens of the country. Do I like Trump in general? Absolutely not, but I also don't automatically start cursing any decision he makes just because its made by him without trying to use two brain cells to analyze it first. I feel safer knowing US data can be accessed by US government entities than foreign ones, specially ones that have a documented track record of industrial espionage against the country. Can't imagine what good can come off the Chinese government having access to PII and potential backdoor capabilities (e.g. the clipboard scandal) of tens of millions of children of US engineers/politicians/workers. Is there a single reason why that can be good for the US citizens? The choice of the president wasn't about the "app" itself. It was about the data being stored in foreign lands. If the app didn't have copious amounts of data of US citizens, he wouldn't have cared, even if it had a 100% user base in the US. Europe has very similar rules on EU data being stored in EU data centers. Germany is a good example of those policies and no one seems to critisize them, because no one "blanket-hates" European leaders like they do to Trump. The decision to ban was because TikTok didn't seem to be willing to cooperate to fix the data locality problem. Had they promised and started moving their data centers to the US, I doubt this would have happened. The acquisition by MS if happens, would do just that and allow the app to continue being used.
- mrtksn 6y agoAs I currently recide in a country famous for blocking access to websites, I follow these developments as closely as I can. Whatever happens, it's probably going to be a recipe on how to force all foreign providers to act the way the local government wants. These days the theme is forcing on the ant-gay stance, they managed to force Netflix a show that had a gay character in it. Besides that charade, they passed laws to control the social media in the name of national security and citizens rights. This comes after Twitter exposed and deleted a pro government troll army. Anyway, if this happens Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. can start looking into the future of Instagram for Iran, Twitter for Turkey, Google for EU - all forced to partner with a local company and the global versions inaccessible. I am sure that the US ban of TikTok would be well rationalised but the US could have chosen the EU approach of enforcing US data being kept on US soil. Sad that US choose the Chinese approach of right our of banning(because somehow becoming like China is the way of topping the authoritarian Chinese order). Something tells me that this is not about national security. Welcome to the world of partitioned internet in the name of national security. A boring dystopia where the less fre world no longer has a role model. I hope you enjoy the life where the government is telling you what you can and can't use so that the country stays safe. Brilliant system that served all kind of authoritarian regimes. Good luck to the start-ups, from now on you are looking to a future where you will have to strike a deal with each country you want to operate. "Your app just crossed the TOP100 mark in the AppStore, would be shame if something happens to it because of national security. Maybe you should sell it to our crony while it's still worth something"
- eunos 6y agoIronically, this future might be what CCP wished. Their practice won't be regarded as "archaic" anymore and U.S ultimate grip in tech might start to wane, however small will be. A few days ago Pompeo warned that CCP might change "us" (outside PRC in this context). It seems, however, that U.S. might be the first to be changed.
- mrtksn 6y agoI know right? And this saddens me because my whole life the USA was the role model. I was born in a communist country but it changed to be more like USA at my early childhood, so USA is the dream. Now the USA is becoming this thing that values state security in expense of individual freedoms. I am totally not amused. edit: unfavourable opinions seem to get downvoted into oblivion. I am actually surprised by the jubilance in the tech community towards state intervention. Had no idea that people dreamed of becoming like China where the all knowing government protects them by telling them what apps can use and which website they can visit.
- jrsdav 6y agoI wonder how long this deal has actually been in the works, and Trump, seemingly privy to this knowledge, saw a good opportunity to take credit by pre-empting the inevitable announcement of a sell off. Why else would he announce his plans of an executive order instead of just doing it?
- scotu 6y agoyou might be right, but there are other reason to announce instead of doing: getting leverage, getting attention, being someone that talks a lot and does much less, not having a brain/mouth filter... probably a mix of trying to get leverage for something probably unrelated and getting some attention (possibly diverting it from something else)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- xoxoy 6y agoi don’t really get how this works. will the US one have global users or just US ones?
- sukilot 6y agoGlobal, unless other countries ban an app that US can use to spy on them.
- xoxoy 6y agobut is there a non-US version of TikTok then too? i don’t understand how the two versions interact is what i’m saying.
- chrisrogers 6y agoIt can be the same exact app on your phone, but be communicating with a different set of network endpoints.
- xoxoy 6y agono i don’t think that works i mean the US one would be wholly owned by someone with own dev team servers etc the non-US one would have to be a separate app with own team too. it doesn’t seem to work
- jariel 6y agoIf they are concerned about spyware they'll ban the China version much earlier than the American version by any reasonable threshold.
- bassman9000 6y agoI know. China having different policies internationally, and domestically, sucks.
- heliophobicdude 6y agoI'm confused too. I thought there was already a mainland version called Douyin.
- namelosw 6y agoFrom the US-China conflict perspective, it seems the Trump administration is looking for something that China cannot easily retaliate. China can easily pick a consulate to close when the US closes consulate in Houston. But businesses from the US in China always require Chinese companies to operate, just like World of Warcraft is operated by NetEase in China. After Microsoft acquire Tiktok's operation, if China just picks some US business to do the same it would make China looks too soft because China is already doing this for decades, and Trump could claim the US has beaten China in this round. But if China escalates the conflict by retaliating in radical ways, the Trump administration could rally more before the election.
- baybal2 6y agoVery much that. Beijing is running out of big "American" companies it can retaliate against. No Facebook in China, no Tviter in China, all major American brands are effectively franchises, or joint ventures, so they will be shooting their own business in the foot. They can of course order those Chinese joint venture owners to appropriate the American stake in their corporate entities, but those state never been high to begin with, with Chinese JV sides always trying to exfiltrate equity out of them. Out of big fish, pretty much the only one remaining is Apple, which owns very little in China, but will be crippled if being denied access to Chinese contract manufacturers.
- manquer 6y agoIt will cripple China even more than Apple . Apple will have 1-2 really bad years and would eventually be able to move their supply chain to other countries . Apple has the money to whether that storm The millions of jobs lost in China would be permanent, and start a trend and they loose their manufacturing edge .
- spideymans 6y agoTo add to your point: Apple has been pretty rapidly shifting operations to India, precisely for this reason. I’d be willing to bet Apple has plans in place to move the rest of their manufacturing operations if China were to retaliate against it. Not saying it would be easy, or painless, but perhaps not as difficult as we’d imagine.
- chvid 6y agoTurns out the shining city on the hill is run by a mafia boss ...
- ideals 6y agosocial media app that has up to 80 million daily active users in the United States. Crazy that one person can ban something over 1/4 the US population uses every day. The implications of that are staggering. (for any politically trigger fingered voters who think this opinion is derived based on current administration, you would be incorrect. I do not think something like this should ever be decided by a single person, it should go through congress and if a new law or decision is the result of that, the party which is to be banned should have the ability to make their case to SCOTUS)
- 627467 6y agoI don't know if it's "crazy" that 1 person (if it's indeed just 1 person) can ban an app. After all political/judicial/comercial orders to ban things happen all the time. I think it's more telling that 1 decision can be effective actually banning it - considering that there are so many things/services that are banned and yet available online, the fact that this hypothetical ban be effective, says more for the tech stack of this app/service than for the actually political/commercial decision to ban it.
- jdatsun34 6y agoGreat Firewall of the USA - "if the NSA can't use it to spy on you, it's not truly freedom"
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sukilot 6y agoCrazy that one person controls an app that over 1/4 the US population uses. Crazy that over 1/4 the population uses one entertainment app. I don't even see how that's possible, even if all tweens/teens/teen-aspirationals use it.
- Mehdi2277 6y agoThe simple answer is the age penetration in older ages has grown. You can use these numbers to get a rough estimate, https://www.statista.com/statistics/1095186/tiktok-us-users-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1095186/tiktok-us-users-... Disclaimer: I work at US tiktok.
- factorialboy 6y agoWhat if China stalls and the US administration changes in a few months.
- sukilot 6y agoChina doesn't control Android and iOS App stores in US.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ericmay 6y agoDon’t think it’ll change with Biden. The rhetoric level may change, but the overall sentiment is quite bipartisan and public opinion of China right now in America is awful. Also, the US can just ban it tomorrow and it’ll disappear.
- est 6y agothen tiktok may simply provide a web version. Will US build some kind of firewall?
- ryanSrich 6y agoThey already have a web app
- manquer 6y agoThey will not have remotely the same size of users who will be using the web version. The concern is size of their the control , not that they control at all
- gpm 6y agoThey'll probably end up banning advertisers from paying them, and TikTok from paying content creators. Sure, Americans will still be able to access the content (over an inferior interface), but TikTok will probably be losing money on American viewers (not necessarily a problem for a propaganda outlet), and TikTok won't be able to incentivize good content.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- chvid 6y agoGreat policy. The EU needs to do the same with American big tech.
- jariel 6y agoIf the EU banned American big tech, they'd be set aback 20 years. Of course where would be a populist revolution. The difference between the EU and US on this matter, is that the EU has almost no substitutes, and they just don't - for whatever reason (there are many) have he will to do them. And of course there's no point - what FB is doing is no different from what a EU-based FB would do.
- chenzhekl 6y agoDo you really think EU is not capable of creating similar services?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- chvid 6y agoEuropeans don't have a word for entrepreneur.
- admin_account 6y agoFrom a technical standpoint, no. From a cultural standpoint, yes.
- 6y ago
- unnamedprophet 6y agoWhile this sort of quashing of free markets may be permissible for sovereign nations, it comes with a heavy cost. Trump, and by proxy the U.S., moves to force the hand of ByteDance to divest itself of all interest in TikTok at fire sale prices through threat of shutting them down. The U.S. establishes its reputation for stifling competition whenever a strong enough sovereign interest is in play. China, and other countries, will respond in kind to protect their own interests - Tesla, Apple, Intel and whatever other company has a juicy stake in China are held hostage until they concede their interests of to a China state-run company. Imagine trying to do business in another country when the fear of takeover looms overhead if you ever become too successful? This behavior only serves to encourage more protectionist and isolationist markets.
- volgo 6y agoThe interesting thing is that these platforms come and go. One year it’s Vine, another year it’s Snap, now it’s TikTok. ByteDance bought musically for $1B in 2017 and turned it into Tok. 3 years later, it’s grown like crazy because it’s the latest fad and would be smart for them to cash out before the next new thing hits The whole divestment thing is probably a godsend for ByteDance, “forcing” them to liquidate their stake, but in reality let’s them cash out on an overhyped app that’s easy to copy Must be laughing all the way to the bank
- patrickaljord 6y agoTikTok is not overhyped, it is here to stay, that's why they want to ban it. It's still growing like crazy and is way way more entertaining than any other social network by a long shot.
- m3kw9 6y agoThe type of entertainment TikTok provides is getting tiring. Is like fb videos on turbo. Sugar high can only last so long
- Kelteseth 6y agoMaybe you are just not the target audience here? YouTube also has videos like TikTok and it still has a bazillion users...
- WilTimSon 6y agoWell, YouTube's core audience isn't going there for TikTok-style content (no judgement on that content either way.) They mostly come for vlogs, let's play's, tutorial videos, video essays, etc. Also worth noting that YouTube is a money sink so it's not like it's the most lucrative business model.
- xzel 6y agoI've heard the argument a few times YouTube actually loses money, besides just being a money sink. Does anyone have anything from Google talking about margins or profit/loss of youtube? I've never been able to find anything concrete on the issue. This is the best I've ever been able to find [1] 1. https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/3/21121207/youtube-google-alphabet-earnings-revenue-first-time-reveal-q4-2019 https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/3/21121207/youtube-google-al...
- brandonmenc 6y agoFuture startup biz strategy: Chinese company makes huge viral app for the US market, and lets everyone stoke rumors that it's a spying platform. US gov't tosses a huge subsidy at whatever domestic company can acquire it at any cost - in the interest of national defense - resulting in massive overvalued purchase. China pockets the profits. Rinse, repeat.
- smilekzs 6y agoBut isn't it more likely that said Chinese company will have little to none leverage in the talks, because the choice is between getting banned or getting bought at a token (read: undervalued) price?
- cma 6y agoThat assumes the buyers aren't in competition with each other, and just one possible buyer is pre-chosen.
- Spivak 6y agoPotentially but their negotiating position is shutting down completely which would be a loss for a potential acquiring company. I'm sure that TT stole some users from YT, IG, and Tumblr but largely creators are posting everywhere so their existence just increases the size of the pie.
- LordFast 6y agoSelling paranoia is good business these days.
- nkingsy 6y agoIf you can build a huge viral app, you’re already a billionaire.
- balola 6y agoThis is a game America can't win, either way the CCP gets to keep the upper hand, everpresent threat or discrediting entirely.
- rgrs 6y agoHow? When China doesnt open up its fire wall for US apps, why should US allow Chinese?
- balola 6y agoWhen billions of people believe something, it will become a "fact". Right now the public opinion in China (not mine) is that India and America are hypocritical bullies and abusing the "national security" excuse, while China "never banned" any foreign web services, those "simply refused to comply with Chinese laws regarding terrorism" and their "inaccessibility" totally justified. You see, here's the logical trap, Tiktok ostensibly didn't refuse to comply with any foreign law, and it will do any "dirty work" if being asked to (unlike foreign companies in China), so by this logic, it's a model citizen and the ban is unjustified and ridiculous. This plays right into the party's hands, right into its "century of humiliation" ideology. >why should US allow Chinese? So here's the catch, the CCP sabotaged and overthrew the Chinese Nationalist Party (now Taiwan) government exactly by exploiting its liberal constitution and free speech, the lesson they learned from that epic success is that never allow these freedom, China never touted freedom and rights so it doesn't matter, while the US being the democracy beacon breaching it has everything to lose.
- ergocoder 6y ago> Right now the public opinion in China (not mine) is that India and America are hypocritical bullies and abusing the "national security" excuse, while China "never banned" any foreign web services, those "simply refused to comply with Chinese laws regarding terrorism" and their "inaccessibility" totally justified. This is definitely not a public opinion. Public opinion in US is splited like it always is in every single matter. I agree on the ban... or, at least, they should take a closer look regarding national security. Sending a lot of citizen personal info to the opposite super power like China and Russia does seem concerning, don't you agree?
- vlkr 6y agothis can be a good way for europe, too. after the last court ruling: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/european-court-rules-on-facebook-vs-schrems-case.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/european-court-rules-on-face... there must be changes. Maybe this means us users can't see eu users in the social networks and vice versa. But then we could finally post our nipples on instagram!
- pinkfoot 6y agoSo soon all the tech savvy kids will learn that their favourite apps are only available on the Hauwei app store?
- throwaway1777 6y agoit won't really be their favorite app if no one else is using it
- billfruit 6y agoAs someone from the third world this leaves a very bad feeling if it happens. I do expect it runs into legal hurdles before that. Neither Apple nor Google have found TikTok problematic enough to delist them from their app stores. Neither is there charges that TikTok may have broken US laws. Banning something which hasn't broken US laws, on arbitrary grounds shouldn't be possible. The President shouldn't have authority to ban anything at all let alone an app available through privately operated app stores. Also dictating which apps an individual can install/not install shouldn't be the job of the Federal Government. All indication is that the president does not have authority to execute an outright ban of the thing. Also what alarms me the veil of secrecy on the procedings. The proceeding of the CFIUS should be made public in this regard. At this point US is seemingly acting like a dictatorship with very less transparency. Policies and decisions should be debated and argued before they are executed, not merely justified after the fact. That's what US and a few oher democracies have turned to doing in recent years. Ultimately I feel that it is US who has been more to blame (contrary to much of Western media coverage) for the deteriorating US-China relationship, and drumming up the chorus for a new coldwar. Chinese policy seems to have not significantly changed in the last 5 years towards the US, but on the other hand US seemed ever more keen and eger to pursue a hostile attitude towards China. With the pandemic and with genral economic malice affecting much of the world, I don't think a path of increasing hostility and conflict is what the world needs.
- young_unixer 6y agoThis. I am from a mediocre country and had always admired how Americans defended freedom (specially freedom of speech and right to bear arms). But now they seem not to care anymore. Just throw all our freedoms out the window because China is spying on us. Even in this forum, the general sentiment is that it should just be banned.
- la6471 6y agoSometimes my friend , enough is enough. Maybe for a change China Communist Party can discover the Covid vaccine and give democratic rights to its people. How about that?
- woopwoop 6y agoIs there any way to know with certainty whether the president has any financial interest in Microsoft? If there is, does he?
- jungletime 6y agoWhenever I read an implied claim of someone doing something in my interest in an news article, I assume the opposite of what the claim is.
- ajarmst 6y agoAny fallout from this will be interesting. It can be easily argued that this is a case of the US President (not the US Government) using arbitrary emergency powers-—or the threat of their use—-to interfere with a business deal on behalf of a US company. Even ignoring suits from Facebooks’s competitors, effect on existing trade deals, and justification for foreign government interventions against US companies, one wonders if this is the start of a new trade war with China or just a warning to other social media companies (“nice market penetration you got there, shame if something were to happen to it“).
- _emacsomancer_ 6y agoMicrosoft to buy? Selling the hen house to the fox?
- tlow 6y agoWill their value plummet if they are banned before an acquisition can take place?
- lovetocode 6y agoTikTok is horrible. Less then a day after signing up I was getting spam text messages with Chinese writing.
- Ijumfs 6y agoSo will they be keeping all the intrusive spyware features as a part of this deal?
- michaelyoshika 6y agoif you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you
- cannabis_sam 6y agoAnother step in the balkanization of the internet, to the cheers of governments around the world..
- myspamdeli 6y agoIt’s pretty clear the US gvt doesn’t care about the monopolistic practices by big tech, the privacy concerns of TikTok, or that CCP has access to user data. It’s their lack of access to the private user data of this hugely popular app they lack and are after. Having MSFT buy it means they’ll have a back door to TikTok content immediately just like they do Skype. The US 3 letter agencies have been gunning for this ever since the app blew up, and unlike all the valley apps they have had no access to its user data.
- ktln2 6y agoIt is funny to see comments like “this will only strengthen the hostility of Chinese people against US” - the fact is most if not all Chinese see US as their arch nemesis.
- rdiddly 6y agoSorry, under what legal framework does the Executive branch of the US government "ban" an app, and what does that look lik, i.e. what actions does it take, and has it ever happened before?
- ETHisso2017 6y agoIEEPA. No, it hasn't happened to an app before
- theduder99 6y agosit back, relax, and your question will be answered soon enough
- e-clinton 6y agoThey’re banning TikTok because they don’t want a Chinese company having direct access to the location, camera, and microphones of hundreds of millions of Americans. I have the app installed and have all those permissions disabled. I understand that it seems unfair but I get where they’re coming from given that China isn’t exactly a saint when it comes to spying/civil rights. I think it Microsoft agrees to take ownership of the data and protecting it, it doesn’t make sense to ban it. I’m surprised Verizon or Twitter hasn’t stepped up with bid
- gmantg 6y agoMost smartphones are made in China, so CCP has access to them at the hardware level. My bet is that tiktok has hacked the human psychology: it's an equivalent of addictive sugary drink spiced with coke; it's a problem by itself, but it's a much bigger problem once we realise who manipulates the us citizens. I see tiktok as a backdoor into democracy: it can sway opinions of the masses or it can run social experiments.
- horsemessiah 6y agoWhy doesn't the government pass laws preventing this, instead of banning one particular app?
- crb002 6y agoIf they get paid in MS stock with a little cash that's probably the best exit they could hope for. Hopefully MS doesn't kill it off like Skype - which should have been Zoom.
- cwhiz 6y agoI’m fine with anything that damages China. The entire western world should be grouping together to fight the Chinese state. Their behavior the last couple of decades is obscene. Right now, in 2020, China is operating Muslim concentration camps. Their factories are “employed” by de facto slave labor. The western world should universally shun China. Ban anything that originates from China or anything that contains parts or software that originates from China.
- markus_zhang 6y agoIn fact, the computer you use to make posts on ycombinator could contain some components from China as well.
- cwhiz 6y agoI understand that. It would be a short term painful switch as we completely pulled the western world out of China.
- nardi 6y agoThe real reason behind this is that TikTok teens ruined his Tulsa rally and now he wants to get back at them. Simple as that.
- dillonmckay 6y agoThis makes the most sense, and why Zoom is not being given the same attention.
- throwaway798754 6y agoZoom is an American company founded by an American.
- jjcon 6y agoSo why did India already ban it and why is Australia and Japan in talks to ban it?
- nardi 6y agoI’m not saying there aren’t good reasons to ban it, I’m just saying that’s not why Trump is doing it.
- mark_l_watson 6y agoMaybe I am blaming the wrong companies/countries but it seems to me that platforms like iOS and Android should provide near perfect sand boxing for all apps, including TikTok. No app should be able to quietly have access to our devices. The new beta for iOS is doing a better job by having little notifications of what app is using the camera, microphone, your contacts, etc. I would also like to speculate on something: Peter Theil owns a lot of Facebook stock and TikTok is a market threat to Facebook. Peter Theil is close with President Trump. You can see where I am going with this...
- AnonymousRider 6y agoTired of the apologists for China. They have been taking advantage of our Western tradition of openness for far too long.
- learc83 6y agoTo me TikTok feels like ytmnd.com with videos instead of images. I spent hours there when I was younger.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- MangoCoffee 6y agoSome people here think TikTok is a fad. I used to think FB is a fad but 16 years later. FB is still here. Not as shiny as it used to be but enough to make billions. I don't know if TikTok is a fad and you don't either. If TikTok last more than 10 years. It already make back its cost and some more. Heck, Snap is still around and it used to be a meme stock on WallStreetBets.
- Latty 6y agoI'm always suspicious of anyone who says "this is a fad" who treats the thing with disdain. If you don't understand what people like about the thing, it seems unlikely you will be able to identify if that desire is going to fade quickly.
- hhsuey 6y agoAgreed. Fad is a bit too much. However, maybe 5 or 10 more years. I think more and more people are moving away each year. It seems like it's my (older generation) that uses it.
- quantum_state 6y agoThe government's behavior should not be allowed in a country of rule of law. We should all wake up to defend our God given right to use apps we like. Guys, please don't fall into the trap of us vs them. The governments are all bullying us, the people. They raised tariff in the name of whatever, yet in reality, they collect more tax and we pay more for goods we need. The same goes with banning apps. The reality is that we are being stripped away more and more choices and freedom. So, we the people need to wake up and stand against it!
- nouveaux 6y agoOr people need to wake up to the security threat. This is not about us vs them. No apps from Australia, Europe or Africa are on the list of banned apps. Its China where in order to do business there, you have to give the government access to your trade secrets and full server access without a warrant. While its possible for any company to succumb to government pressure for unreasonable access, it is a prerequisite to do so in China. The world knows this. Hong Kong's new national security law is plenty proof that China is not a genuine partner and is a bad faith actor. Your right to look at TikTok videos does not trump anyone else's right for security.
- javagram 6y agoThis isn’t about Chinese control, considering the President dismissed allowing Microsoft to buy the app. Microsoft is a US company.
- horsemessiah 6y agoThe solution would be to pass a law akin to the GDPR then. There is no need to go through executive action. The U.S. is not supposed to be authoritarian like China is.
- nouveaux 6y agoAs far as I understand it, GDPR is personal privacy. I believe the US concern is one of national security. It has already been established that social media has problems with national security when the company is owned by US. It is likely to be more problematic if it is owned by a country that continues to undermine us with espionage and Cold War tactics. I think protecting our national security is not authoritarianism.
- cmurf 6y ago>We are not an M&A (mergers and acquisitions) country,” Trump said. What? Can anyone parse this?
- vonwoodson 6y agoOk, but for real: TikTok is a propaganda machine for China. End of story.
- xvector 6y agoHave you ever used the app, and do you have any evidence of that statement?
- FactCore 6y agoFrom a Chinese multinational to an American multinational. I'm not convinced that any sort of data safety will arise from this. This is really just US giving China a taste of its own medicine.
- okkaa 6y agoWhy US have to buy it? Can't US make a copy? Is US govt such stupid?
- inson 6y agoWhy there's a so much hype about blocking TikTok? China blocked multiple US websites by replicating them first and blocking them (Google, FB, Twitter), irony, isn't it? Were those websites against Chinese laws? I'm surprised by some people reacting negatively to this. P.S. I am not a pro Trump.
- ezVoodoo 6y agoWhich law of the USA has been broken by TikTok? Or it is banned just because it's an app from China?
- slewis 6y agoIt’s interesting that folks are generally giving Trump the benefit of the doubt. There are many comments to the effect of “while there is no public evidence, maybe the US government has secret evidence that TikTok has broken the law.” Trump is incredibly vindictive. Remember a month ago when he hosted a way under-attended rally, because of a fake registration movement that spread on, yup, TikTok? Trump remembers.
- schuke 6y agoI wonder if anyone know that TikTok is currently actively blocking access from Chinese users. Even with a US Apple ID, even with a VPN/Shadowsocks service, you cannot sign up TikTok as long as your phone is using a Chinese SIM card. I have to use an iPad. What you have is something the internet has never seen: unlike Google having to censor its content within China, you now have a allegedly independent US company actively censoring the Chinese people on a social network that identifies itself as non-political, on US (or Free World) soil. This is a type of censorship that's far worse than anything Google or Yahoo or Microsoft ever had to do. Imagine more and more Chinese-owned companies doing this world wide. This is just absolutely ugly practice that shouldn't be allowed to proliferate. It's not only a national security issue. It's also a human rights hazard.
- fermienrico 6y agoUmm...there is nothing remarkable about this. CCP wants their citizens to use a vetted service, that’s in full control and has surveillance capabilities. They already ban YouTube, Google, Facebook, Instagram, etc. amongst many other sites. Tiktok has a local version for Chinese users I believe and Tiktok wants to make sure Chinese users do not sign up for international version of Tiktok app. Tiktok is owned by ByteDance which is not a US firm. It’s based in China. Am I missing something?
- schuke 6y agoThey used to do this within Chinese jurisdiction. Now they're doing it on United State soil.
- hubbabubbarex 6y agoSad that nobody see that USA is biggest threat to privacy data than any other companies combained
- vilesolid 6y agohttps://vilesolid.com/how-to-make-10-dollars-a-day/ https://vilesolid.com/how-to-make-10-dollars-a-day/
- la6471 6y agoThis thread is hijacked by members of Chinese communist party - they are flagging all anti Chinese messages in this thread. Beware!!! My message got flagged just for saying that the CCP should discover the vaccine for Covid 19 and give democratic rights to people of China and someone flagged my message.