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Apple reports Q3 results

185 points by danceparty 6y ago

Steve886 6y ago
iPhone sales moved up 2% from last year to $26.4 billion in the June-quarter. Apple earnings infographic: https://news.alphastreet.com/apple-inc-nasdaq-aapl-earnings-a-snapshot-of-q3-2020-results/ https://news.alphastreet.com/apple-inc-nasdaq-aapl-earnings-...
matthewdgreen 6y ago
Given the high rates of unemployment in the US and around the world (with possibly worse to come) this kind of consumer spending on luxury goods is pretty remarkable. Wonder how sustainable it is.
- cm2187 6y ago
  Remarkable? Perplexing. Like facebook revenues up while all companies are slashing their marketing budget.
  - uptown 6y ago
    You just had an entire planet told that they were going to stay at home, and that school-age children needed some type of device to learn through. That must have driven some percentage of new sales.
    - dhosek 6y ago
      Not to mention things like Bowdoin providing iPad Pros with Magic Pencil and Magic keyboard to all their students (plus paying for cellular connectivity for those students who need it). I imagine this is going to have a knock-on effect where this becomes a quasi-standard setup for remote education improving Apple's bottom line going forward. https://www.bowdoin.edu/news/2020/07/bowdoin-to-provide-ipads-to-all-students-during-pandemic.html https://www.bowdoin.edu/news/2020/07/bowdoin-to-provide-ipad...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - danhak 6y ago
    Regarding Facebook ads: We are in the throes of a general election cycle, I'm curious how much of the slack that has been picking up. Anecdotally I am seeing tons of political ads across the internet. I am also curious if increased internet usage in general is compensating for lower PPC as people are stuck at home.
    - dhosek 6y ago
      How has Twitter's ad revenue gone? They made the policy to eschew political advertising, so they could serve as a (somewhat imperfect) control group. On the other hand, they also haven't had a high-profile advertiser pull-out like Facebook did either.
      - Redoubts 6y ago
        In Q2, as the COVID-19 pandemic had companies cutting ad spending across the board, Twitter's revenue fell short of analysts' expectations, falling 19% YOY, and earnings also failed to meet expectations. The one bright spot was that its number of average monetizable daily active users was 186 million, higher than expected. Twitter's stock is up 5.8% at time of writing. https://www.investopedia.com/twitter-earnings-4706523 https://www.investopedia.com/twitter-earnings-4706523
    - dhosek 6y ago
      On the ubiquitous political ads, I had to fax something to my doctor last month. I didn't want to subscribe to something to send a single fax and all the fax services that I might have used were unavailable thanks to the lockdown. I found a service that offered free faxing with an ad on the cover sheet. I didn't think twice about it and sent the ad. The confirmation page also had an ad on it. For Trump/Pence. Now I'm terrified that the same ad was on the fax and I'm going to need to get a new doctor.
  - gojomo 6y ago
    Many sectors are slashing their marketing budgets, especially their vaguely-targeted mass-marketing or big-incumbent-brand marketing. But Facebook's ad engine allows micro-targeting, and is especially valuable to upstarts & small-businesses in times of changing behavior/consumer-loyalties. To the extent big spenders free up inventory, Facebook has bidders-in-the-wings, offering just-a-little-less, and plenty of impressions among the 2.99 billion people who visit one of the Facebook family-of-sites monthly.
- shmatt 6y ago
  Unemployed Americans have (temporarily) discovered the world of fare living-wage unemployment that expires tomorrow. If you don't live in NY or CA, those extra $600 a week can go very far, and have probably helped stimulate the economy greatly
  - tomjakubowski 6y ago
    If you live in an expensive NY/CA metro, that money can be the difference between unemployment benefits covering your rent or mortgage payment or not, which is a very big deal. California's unemployment benefit caps out at $450/week.
  - 120bits 6y ago
    > If you don't live in NY or CA, those extra $600 a week can go very far True. My girlfriend lost her job March. She is unemployed since then. We are not based in NY or CA. She has mentioned this to me several times that how much more she has in savings now. With all this time and some extra cash, I have asked her learn coding. She is working on her app idea.
  - pengaru 6y ago
    CA has plenty of people living in poverty $600/wk make a world of difference for.
  - Jommi 6y ago
    What planet are we living on? 600 a week is 2400 a month, which way over any entry level salary in Europe. How inflated are the salaries in US? Or are people used to some really abnormal level of living?
    - kcb 6y ago
      $2400 a month is pretty far below entry level for any white color job. Its about what you would earn full time in an Amazon warehouse. Or minimum wage in NYC.
      - pb7 6y ago
- duxup 6y ago
  Do people maybe see phones and related tech / services as sort of essential?
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  There are other examples as well. For me, it is RVs. Generally people only buy them when they're feeling good about the future, so you'd expect uncertainty to be devastating right now. Nope, dealers are moving them as fast as they can get them in stock, and they're not budging on price. Normally you only pay about 2/3 MSRP for an RV. Not right now. Sucks because I want to upgrade to something a little bigger, and I don't want to pay an extra 10K just to have it right now. So I'll wait until January and see if the dealer is feeling more agreeable.
  - kbenson 6y ago
    Well, that's the safe way to vacation now, take your shelter with you. That seems obvious to me once you mention the trend.
  - abtom 6y ago
    Either that, or a large number of people are unable to meet expenses and forced to break bad. /jk
  - glofish 6y ago
    RV's are not a good sign of recovery in this case. Usually RVs are bought in addition to other travel, they are more of a luxury item. In the current environment where booking a hotel is considered by some risky RVs are bought as a necessity if one wants to travel.
    - reaperducer 6y ago
      Usually RVs are bought in addition to other travel, they are more of a luxury item. I've seen plenty of newspaper items in the last few months about people who usually fly places for summer vacation putting that money into a used, or cheap new R.V. Aside from not being able to fly out of the country, it apparently gives them peace of mind knowing they can take their quarantine bubble with them wherever they go.
  - ponker 6y ago
    My dad just bought one so he could get out while social distancing.
- kbenson 6y ago
  That's likely reduced entertainment expense of eating out and of traveling and vacations shifting at least partially to other areas. An iPhone costs a lot, but so does a week long vacation in another state, and eating out a couple times a week, and those are less likely for a lot of people now.
  - myth_drannon 6y ago
    Correct. No family vacations in France/Italy ($15K easy), just spending on gadgets/home renovations.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    Anecdotally, our app spending is up a lot since the quarantine began—my kids (6 yo twins) got iPads for their birthday and we've probably spent at least $50 on apps for them alone (a mix of educational apps and games). I imagine there's a lot of educational app purchases happening in general. As an aside, we use new apps as a reward for various exceptional acts. My son looked at my phone not long after we started this and told me that I must have done a lot for my mom to have put so many icons on my phone.
- gizmo385 6y ago
  Hasn't consumer spending (at least at some level, not completely) been propped up by the unemployment assistance and CARES act checks? I wonder how much spending on these kinds of goods might drop if that assistance goes away.
- throwanem 6y ago
  Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people are buying new phones while they're sure they can, to avoid the risk of being stuck with an old and potentially failing one when they can't. Phones are luxury goods only up to a point. Especially once you're invested in an app store, it can cost a good deal to switch platforms. And it should be news to no one that having access to communications grows more, not less, important, the closer you get to stony broke.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    Perhaps also that Apple is known for making quality phones. In times of economic pressure, people buy for the long-term.
    - alacombe 6y ago
      In times of economic pressure, buying a $1000 phone is not the smartest idea.
      - throwanem 6y ago
        And Apple, of course, makes no phones that sell for under a grand.
      - GeekyBear 6y ago
        Buying a $399 iPhone SE that will receive OS and security updates for at least six years, on the other hand, works out to less than $70 a year.
        alwillis 6y ago
        And a $399 iPhone SE that's $200 off is even better: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24005628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24005628
  - alacombe 6y ago
    > Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people are buying new phones while they're sure they can, to avoid the risk of being stuck with an old and potentially failing one when they can't. I think you're incorrectly assuming people are good at any form of long term financial planning...
- caseyohara 6y ago
  We'd have to see the product breakdown, but it's possible this could be explained by more people working from home and home schooling; people are likely spending more time on devices like tablets and laptops. If iPhone sales are up, that would indeed be remarkable. Remarkable either way because Apple stores were closed for most of the quarter.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    You're right. The work-from-home angle could be part of it. My company recently announced everyone is staying home for at least the next 10 months, and is trying to get hundreds of iPhones for everyone who didn't have a company-issued phone before. The company my wife works for is half at work, and half at home right now, but everyone is getting new phones, just in case.
- jandrewrogers 6y ago
  Interestingly, spending on luxury/positional goods does not decline when the economy is poor. This is a well-known effect. That is not where people tend to cut back. If you looked solely at Apple's revenue during 2008/2009 you wouldn't even know there was a crash, never mind one that was severe by any measure.
  - troygoode 6y ago
    I don't disagree with your point (it is pretty interesting!) but I do think 2008 – one year after the iPhone was introduced – is a bit of a special scenario for Apple that isn't broadly applicable to other stocks/downturns.
    - runawaybottle 6y ago
      It could still be framed within the realm of the underclass. They don’t have enough money to invest, buy a home, pay off debt, but they can certainly buy the best thing within their buying power - a phone, a tv, heavily financed cars, and so on. I don’t think these buying patterns are incongruous to reality on the ground. In other news, certainly alcohol and drug sales are up too.
- biql 6y ago
  I’d guess that people buying luxury goods are also the ones least affected by unemployment.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Here in the UK between working from home and "remote schools" (i.e. schools moving online because of the lockdown) spending on things like home offices, laptops, etc. went up. If you're stuck at home you probably and in any case spend more time online and/or on your phone, which has to be good for whoever owns online app and music stores. (This also explains Facebook's good results). All in all, it's not surprising that results are good for Apple. But it is not sustainable growth.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- chrischen 6y ago
  People are saving a lot of money too from not having to commute, entertainment, travel, etc. that spending shifted to consumer goods. Plus, government handed out a lot of free money on too of that.
- quicklime 6y ago
  Don't forget that they've just released a new MacBook Air and iPhone SE. In hindsight this was the perfect time to be releasing cheap devices like this.
- vosper 6y ago
  Are these things actually luxury goods? A smartphone is probably one of the most essential and important devices in many peoples lives these days. Certainly one of the most used. There is the option of Android instead of Apple, but as someone pointed out one time, iPhones are cheaper than flagship Android devices if you account for the support lifetime of an iPhone being a lot longer than any Android device. And that's not counting the cheaper iPhone Apple launched recently. Likewise, for many people, a computer would probably be considered an essential device. Sure there are cheaper Windows laptops, but the cost of switching ecosystems is potentially quite high, and if you're already in the i-device camp you're probably going to stick with a Mac due to its integration with all the other things you have (and had before the pandemic) I would count iPads as largely luxury devices.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    I'd be fascinated to see a breakout of Apple's quarterly sales by product. I don't know if such a thing is published, and if so I've been unable to find it, but I had also wondered what fraction of it the SE 2 would account for. I remember seeing headlines that it was selling above expectations shortly after launch, but there wasn't any real detail that I recall.
  - mrkstu 6y ago
    iPad Pros for non-business use may be luxury devices, but the 'regular' iPad is down to $329 now, solidly low end- especially now that iPad OS has mouse support built in and Safari supports requesting desktop mode pages.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    > Are these things actually luxury goods? I have a lot of trouble characterizing tools as luxury goods. I don't consider my Dewalt tools "Luxury Goods" and they cost roughly twice what basic Harbor Freight tools cost. You pay for longevity and performance. It's no different with phones/ tablets/ computers. If you want a phone or tablet that lasts 4+ years there is only one brand that offers that kind of device life. Also, with Apple cranking out the base iPhone at $400, and the massive second hand market for iPhone, it's hard to argue many people associate the brand with luxury the way they do Coach or other luxury brands. If anyone thought Apple was a "luxury" brand, the flop of the solid gold Apple Watch "Edition" sub-brand should have disabused them of the notion.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  There's a good argument to be made that Apple devices are not luxury goods but save you money in the long run. They often last for many more years than competitors' products, receive upgrades for longer, become obsolete less quickly, and Apple will repair them both under warranty and out of warranty. (Many competitors simply do not service their products.) And when you're finally done with your device, you can often still resell it on eBay and get even further value from it, again often for much more than with competitors' products of the same age. Apple products on the lower end tend to be fantastic investments actually. And given how much we're working from home now, your primary devices for remote communication are hardly "luxury" and more "essential".
  - FridgeSeal 6y ago
    Oldest phone that gets iOS updates is what, the 6s or the 7? The former having come out in 2015, that is an amazing support lifetime. I’m planning on keeping my iPhone X past the end of the year, which takes it to a 3 year lifetime, which works out as ~$600/year which is amazing value.
    - adiabatty 6y ago
      Both the 6s(+) and the iPhone SE (the 5s-shaped one that people love for the small size) will be able to get iOS 14 when it comes out later this year.
    - samatman 6y ago
      Those are the oldest phones which still get new versions of iOS. My mother has a 6, and it still gets security updates for (IIRC) iOS 11. It's her second 6, by the way. The battery on the first one started inflating, and they replaced it with a refurbished unit for the price of a new battery. No other company plays in the same league as Apple when it comes to product support.
  - thecupisblue 6y ago
    You reminded me of the last time I spent money on a laptop before mac. Well, it wasn't me, it was my parents. For half the price of new mac air, I got a Toshiba budget notebook. It barely lasted 2 years, which was the amount it's "anything happens" warranty expired - which wasn't really anything happens. The CD ROM just didnt slide back in totally one day and stuck. The shift key got so fucked up I had to disable it preboot or I'd be stuck with caps. Fun times. Never again. Made me appreciate macs way more when I got one.
- bananaface 6y ago
  Everyone is cooped up at home. Not too surprising that they'd buy laptops & ipads.
- cobookman 6y ago
  My iphone se2 was 400$. I got it at 50% off, so $200. That's not luxury by any means, and is price competitive even with the cheapest of android phones. Apple's lower price-point offerings might have old hardware, but its more than made up for it by just working & offering long-term support. Something no android phone can match.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    The iPhone SE has the top of the line processor that is still faster than any Android phone.
- shadowtree 6y ago
  An iPhone is the durable personal computer for most people. They don't own a "PC", this is the only way to safely conduct e-commerce. Without it, you're done in the modern world (even government interactions, like scheduling a DMV visit). A necessity, not a luxury. Best security, best long term support, best re-sale value. If you're poor, an iPhone is the smartest choice. You need to AFFORD an Android device.
  - VikingCoder 6y ago
    I'm surprised to see you say "most people," as Android is what, 85% of the market?
    - casefields 6y ago
      Not in the US which is what OP was referring to. Also, that worldwide market share is massive for junky low-end androids. iPhone alone is ~50% of US market share: https://www.statista.com/topics/2711/us-smartphone-market/ https://www.statista.com/topics/2711/us-smartphone-market/ Android splits the rest.
      - VikingCoder 6y ago
        Sorry, where does it say or imply "US"? Presumably people are buying the best phone for their budget and needs. Per OP, "They don't own a PC, this is the only way to safely conduct e-commerce." How many people with an iPhone do you want to bet have a PC, versus how many people with a "junky low-end android"? I'll bet you vastly more iPhone owners have another computer.
        samatman 6y ago
        "DMV" implies the US, although I can see where that might not be clear to a reader from another country. Like it or not, HN is an English-language forum, run by a company based out of SF, and a lot of commentators presume that context. I try not to, just as I strive to use clear English for the benefit of ESL speakers. But it is the default.
- snowwrestler 6y ago
  Maybe a tangent here, but I don't think it's accurate to think about Apple stuff as luxury goods. For example, I don't think the volume they do in phones aligns with the typical notion of a luxury brand. The best-selling single smartphone model on the market is the iPhone. In analogy with the car market: BMW, Mercedes, Lexus do not have a best-selling model among them. The iPhone is more like the Ford F-150, in terms of how it fits into the broader marketplace, than it is like a luxury car. The F-150 is not inexpensive! But it's not a luxury vehicle either. Why am I bothering with this argument... because I think it leads to confusion about Apple's business, like the comment above. Apple does well because they sell products people want, on the high end of the range, but well within what a lot of people can afford.
  - mdoms 6y ago
    A Ford F-150 is absolutely a luxury vehicle. And I don't see any way you can look at an Apple iPhone as anything other than a luxury purchase, regardless of the market share.
    - tly_alex 6y ago
      "The F-150 carries a base price of $28,495, which is below average for a full-size pickup truck." This is just a quick search from Google. I think ppl might have different opinion of the word "luxury". But generally I would personally not categorize things that's widely sold like F-150 or iPhone as luxury.
      - stiglitz 6y ago
        I’d gauge luxury on necessity, not commonness.
        corin_ 6y ago
        It's a bit of both, and subjective, imo. As an example, pretty much every item of food is "luxury" if based on necessity alone. From bread to the cheapest vegetable in your location - except for items that might be the only locally available/affordable way of getting certain essential nutrients, you don't need that specific food for a healthy life. But... if that food can only be grown on the other side of the world, and therefore is in short supply and/or very expensive relative to local wealth: suddenly maybe that vegetable, type of meat, or whatever is considered a luxury without becoming more of a dietary necessity. Would the cheapest, most common Casio watch available be a luxury because I don't need to have the time on my wrist? As to the subjective/contextual side: I don't know anything about pickups, but I consider my car a luxury to me, and yes that's more to do with necessity than cost - it's not a fancy car, I could afford a much more expensive one, but I very much don't need it. I've never used it in relation to work, I get my groceries delivered, etc. (But while I'd call it a luxury for my life, if asked what kind of car I have I'd never call it a "luxury car".)
- baxtr 6y ago
  I never thought of it as a luxury. Actually quite the opposite. A luxury is something that I pay a lot of money for but don’t use it a lot. For me at least. The price per minute used is quite low...
- dillonmckay 6y ago
  Very few people are paying full price, up front. It is like leasing a car, except it is a hand computer.
- justanotheranon 6y ago
  you can buy a new Nokia 2.2 android phone for $100 on Amazon. it works perfectly for 99% of what you might ever need to do. phones are now at the point where PCs were in 2010--commoditized and at a technical peak. so there is no longer a compelling reason for the average person to buy the newest most expensive model every year. Apple should be dying. maybe it's delayed and we'll see Apple's first decline in revenue in 2-3 years.
- kitotik 6y ago
  Looking at the numbers, both iPad and Mac sales exceeded estimates, iPhone was inline. Seems likely a lot of this came from laptop and iPad sales for work-from-home, and home education respectively, as opposed to frivolous luxury consumer spending.
- nojito 6y ago
  >consumer spending on luxury goods is pretty remarkable The vast majority of Apple products and services are no where near "luxury" prices.
- microtherion 6y ago
  I just read today that disposable personal income in the US rose by 10% in Q2, thanks to stimulus: https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/1288816606165032962 https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/12888166061650... If congress really does not extend benefits, there's bound to be a sizable negative effect.
- Hippocrates 6y ago
  I don't know if I would classify Apple products as strictly luxury, certainly not in the same sense as a Casio vs a Rolex, a Jansport vs Gucci, or a studio vs a 1 bedroom, Honda vs a BMW, staycation watching Disney+ vs trip to Disney. When I think of cutting back on luxury, I am looking for things with a very high incremental cost to incremental value ratio. Apple products could be one but it would be farrrr down the list speaking for myself and others I know.
- dzonga 6y ago
  ipads for education, mac's etc. working from home can drive sales, as folks need mobile equipment. and most sane companies are able to let a user choose equipment. in the small to medium shops it's less costly to run mac equipment than windows in the long run due to saner security requirements etc.
- wil421 6y ago
  What makes you think companies aren’t buying these for use due to COVID? Doctors and nurses video conferencing patients, schools switching to e-learning, and any other businesses sending workers home who may or may not have a computer. Certain industries might also be switching to FaceTiming/Video Conferencing customers.
elevenoh 6y ago
Is this hackernews or wallstreetbets? ;)
Kkoala 6y ago
It's Q2 right? Or do they not use the calendar year for accounting?
- xondono 6y ago
  They don’t use the calendar numbering, but I don’t really know why
  - DelaneyM 6y ago
    Along other reasons, with such a massive percentage of their income (and income variability) in Q4, it really helps their accountants to close out a tax year in the (relatively) predictable and stable Sept after three quarters of normalizing cashflows. Sheltering taxes in a double-Irish requires pretty accurate projections. Also often they just don't have all the data they need to close out a year until a few weeks after holidays, especially if people are taking a break, so it's just a lot easier on the humans involved.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    Apparently: For a variety of reasons, some public companies will use a non-standard or non-calendar quarterly reporting system. For example, Walmart's first quarter is February, March, and April; Apple Inc's Q1 is October, November, and December; Microsoft Corporation's Q1 is July, August, and September. In addition, certain governments use different quarter systems. The first quarter of the United States federal government’s fiscal year is October, November, and December, Q2 is January, February, and March, Q3 is April, May, and June, and Q4 is July, August, and September. State governments may also have their own fiscal calendars. Sometimes a company may have a non-standard fiscal year to help with business or tax planning. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) allows companies to choose a “tax year” that is still 52-53 weeks long but does not end in December. H&R Block (HRB) ends its fiscal year on April 30th, which makes sense because that is the end of the busiest part of the company’s year. Releasing your annual report, which may be accompanied by shareholder meetings and additional disclosures after the busiest part of your year will help managers and shareholders make better decisions about the year ahead. Companies that rely on U.S. government contracts may use September as the end of their fiscal year, and the fourth quarter because that is when they expect new projects to be closed and budget planning from the government to be available. Historically, large technology firms had stronger quarters early in the year, which is why many of them (including Microsoft (MSFT)) have a fiscal year that closes at the end of June. Some companies have very unusual quarterly systems. Adobe (ADBE) closes their fiscal year on the Friday closest to November 30th. In 2018, November 30th was a Friday, as well as the last day of the month but in 2017, ADBE closed their fourth quarter and the fiscal year on Friday, December 1st, because it was the Friday closest to November 30th.
adtac 6y ago
>The Board of Directors has also approved a four-for-one stock split to make the stock more accessible to a broader base of investors. Each Apple shareholder of record at the close of business on August 24, 2020 will receive three additional shares for every share held on the record date, and trading will begin on a split-adjusted basis on August 31, 2020.
- meddlepal 6y ago
  What's the split price? $Close / 4?
  - anthony_r 6y ago
    There is no such thing as "split price". You get 4 shares for each share you previously owned, and it's up to the market to resume trading at a new level. It's a non-event, really, except it makes some operations easier.
    - 3pt14159 6y ago
      Yeah, it was getting a bit pricy to buy lots of 100 apple shares at a time and sell covered calls. This is much better. Honestly I think selling covered call on Apple is one of the few good plays left out there. Long term the company's value is going to keep going up, but with so much volatility in the market lately option premiums are bananas and though I expect a pretty dramatic stock market pullback Apple is one of the few companies that has very strong fundamentals and should weather it pretty well.
      - anthony_r 6y ago
        Ah yes, selling volatility via covered calls. The institutional investors' second favourite way of collecting "extra income" in the zero rates world, second only to explicit leverage. Some of them sold much more volatility, via variance swaps, with quite disastrous results. https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1lffwvwdh7xtq/Amateurish-Trades-Blew-Up-AIMCo-s-Volatility-Program-Experts-Say https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1lffwvwdh7xtq...
bitxbit 6y ago
Anxiety induced shopping is a real thing. Leisure travel is another huge wallet share that’s been nonexistent for several months now.
- jjcon 6y ago
  Anecdotally that is totally the case for me - I’ve been spending money on lots of tech and random fun items. Despite my purchases though my spending is overall down because I’m not eating out, going on trips/vacations.
tqi 6y ago
Apple, Alphabet, Amazon, and Facebook, which combined are worth almost $5 trillion dollars[1] all releasing earnings on the same day seems crazy. From what I could find, that is 14% (5T/35T) of the total stock market posting earnings on the same day [2]. I'm curious if anyone has thoughts on what effect that has on the overall market in terms of volatility? (I really have no good idea as to how any of this works) Could we see other stocks dip/rise as money is reallocated? [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/big-tech-including-apple-and-facebook-report-earnings-late-thursday-which-could-mean-a-crazy-market-day-on-friday.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/big-tech-including-apple-and... [2] https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/ https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/
- nutshell89 6y ago
  I guess this is the biggest argument for breaking up the tech giants - not only are there clear examples of each company either abusing public trust or using their size in anti-competitive ways, but their wealth shields them from having to meaningfully engage with the public at large or reign in said behavior.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    There are alternative to each of the four. No one forces anyone to use any of their products. Definitely no one forces people to buy Apple’s products at a large premium over their competitors. I would say that Apple has to work harder to get users to willingly depart with their cash.
    - alwillis 6y ago
      >I would say that Apple has to work harder to get users to willingly depart with their cash. Actually, it's often the opposite. In the Boston area, the Apple Stores are always packed while the Microsoft Store (now closed) was usually mostly empty in the high-end mall across the street from the stand-alone Boylston Street Apple Store. Price isn't the primary factor for many people, especially younger people. First, there's no real price difference between high-end Android phones—the newest Samsung, for example—and similar iPhones. A Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G 128GB list price is $1399; the iPhone 11 Pro Max with 256GB (double the storage) is $1249. That's $52.04/month. I worked with 24 public high school kids last summer. Most of them were from 1st or 2nd generation immigrant families and would qualify for free or reduced lunch at school. Every one of them had a newer model iPhone than my 6s at the time. Zero Android devices. Which confirmed something I learned from market analysis years ago regarding Apple: people with limited funds can't afford to make a mistake when spending their limited money, which is why they tend to gravitate to higher quality, better made products. Yes, there was the typical desire for teens to have the right sneakers, t-shirt, jeans, etc. The iPhone is definitely in that category, with 85% of them either owning or intending to buy an iPhone: https://www.phonearena.com/news/teens-love-apple_id123682 https://www.phonearena.com/news/teens-love-apple_id123682.
racl101 6y ago
Wonder how much of that revenue is sweet refund transaction fees lol.
- jpxw 6y ago
  $0. That HN post was based on a falsehood
scarface74 6y ago
For people who like charts. https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/07/apple-q3-2020-results-everything-up/ https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/07/apple-q3-2020-results-eve...
JoshTko 6y ago
Really unexpected that YOY revenue is up for Mac 22% and iPad 31%. Also unexpected that service revenue growth seems to have slowed.
ajzinsbwbs 6y ago
Wow, iPad revenue up 31% YoY after being down ~10% in the last few quarters. Similar numbers to a Q1 (holiday season). I guess it makes sense that the tablet form factor is popular when so many people are indoors. Also, services revenue grew YoY but it’s the first time it didn’t grow QoQ in a long time, so it seems to have stagnated. Services include a lot of recurring revenue so they should be consistently growing QoQ. Wearables growth also slowed, this may be the other side of the coin when people are indoors and don’t want to buy a watch for fitness tracking.
- kwijibob 6y ago
  My guess for increased iPad sales: Zoom conferencing during COVID
  - ekianjo 6y ago
    This is probably the largest driver.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - shmoogy 6y ago
    If that's the case, I wonder if webcam sales would affect revenue for Logitech or another big manufacturer.
- spideymans 6y ago
  >Wow, iPad revenue up 31% YoY after being down ~10% in the last few quarters. Similar numbers to a Q1 (holiday season). I guess it makes sense that the tablet form factor is popular when so many people are indoors. I wonder how much this has to do with the release of iPadOS 13, which has made the iPad a significantly more capable "computer" than previous versions of the operating system. For the majority of users (you don't fall into this category, fellow Hacker News reader), the capabilities of iPadOS are quickly approaching that of macOS.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
simonebrunozzi 6y ago
Would you agree that the Tl;dr would simply be "unstoppable"?
KeBugCheckEx 6y ago
When did Apple started distributing dividends? I remember them being known for not doing so.
- kondro 6y ago
  When they ran out of things they could reasonably spend their cash on.
- jjtheblunt 6y ago
  I believe around 2013 Apple altered its buyback and dividend practices, as large shareholder Carl Icahn seemed at the time to be trying to manipulate the company and shareholders to his own advantage. Several articles discussed such around the time. Here are a few. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-carl-icahn-apple-stake--20140122-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-carl-ic... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/carl-icahns-2-billion-apple-stake-was-a-prime-example-of-investment-inequality-2016-06-07 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/carl-icahns-2-billion-appl... https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2017/11/10/carl-icahn-sold-apple-too-soon-it-cost-him-3-7b/#366f46d32cea https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2017/11/10/carl-icah...
XcrossSaber 6y ago
:( and here i am still waiting for Apple product to reduce its price, coz i thought in pandemic, people will keep money for groceries, medical bill and not electronic devices.
- ragazzina 6y ago
  Their phones start at $399. Do you consider it too high?

185 points by danceparty 6y ago

iPhone sales moved up 2% from last year to $26.4 billion in the June-quarter. Apple earnings infographic: https://news.alphastreet.com/apple-inc-nasdaq-aapl-earnings-a-snapshot-of-q3-2020-results/ https://news.alphastreet.com/apple-inc-nasdaq-aapl-earnings-...

matthewdgreen 6y ago

Given the high rates of unemployment in the US and around the world (with possibly worse to come) this kind of consumer spending on luxury goods is pretty remarkable. Wonder how sustainable it is.

cm2187 6y ago
Remarkable? Perplexing. Like facebook revenues up while all companies are slashing their marketing budget.
- uptown 6y ago
  You just had an entire planet told that they were going to stay at home, and that school-age children needed some type of device to learn through. That must have driven some percentage of new sales.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    Not to mention things like Bowdoin providing iPad Pros with Magic Pencil and Magic keyboard to all their students (plus paying for cellular connectivity for those students who need it). I imagine this is going to have a knock-on effect where this becomes a quasi-standard setup for remote education improving Apple's bottom line going forward. https://www.bowdoin.edu/news/2020/07/bowdoin-to-provide-ipads-to-all-students-during-pandemic.html https://www.bowdoin.edu/news/2020/07/bowdoin-to-provide-ipad...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- danhak 6y ago
  Regarding Facebook ads: We are in the throes of a general election cycle, I'm curious how much of the slack that has been picking up. Anecdotally I am seeing tons of political ads across the internet. I am also curious if increased internet usage in general is compensating for lower PPC as people are stuck at home.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    How has Twitter's ad revenue gone? They made the policy to eschew political advertising, so they could serve as a (somewhat imperfect) control group. On the other hand, they also haven't had a high-profile advertiser pull-out like Facebook did either.
    - Redoubts 6y ago
      In Q2, as the COVID-19 pandemic had companies cutting ad spending across the board, Twitter's revenue fell short of analysts' expectations, falling 19% YOY, and earnings also failed to meet expectations. The one bright spot was that its number of average monetizable daily active users was 186 million, higher than expected. Twitter's stock is up 5.8% at time of writing. https://www.investopedia.com/twitter-earnings-4706523 https://www.investopedia.com/twitter-earnings-4706523
  - dhosek 6y ago
    On the ubiquitous political ads, I had to fax something to my doctor last month. I didn't want to subscribe to something to send a single fax and all the fax services that I might have used were unavailable thanks to the lockdown. I found a service that offered free faxing with an ad on the cover sheet. I didn't think twice about it and sent the ad. The confirmation page also had an ad on it. For Trump/Pence. Now I'm terrified that the same ad was on the fax and I'm going to need to get a new doctor.
- gojomo 6y ago
  Many sectors are slashing their marketing budgets, especially their vaguely-targeted mass-marketing or big-incumbent-brand marketing. But Facebook's ad engine allows micro-targeting, and is especially valuable to upstarts & small-businesses in times of changing behavior/consumer-loyalties. To the extent big spenders free up inventory, Facebook has bidders-in-the-wings, offering just-a-little-less, and plenty of impressions among the 2.99 billion people who visit one of the Facebook family-of-sites monthly.
shmatt 6y ago
Unemployed Americans have (temporarily) discovered the world of fare living-wage unemployment that expires tomorrow. If you don't live in NY or CA, those extra $600 a week can go very far, and have probably helped stimulate the economy greatly
- tomjakubowski 6y ago
  If you live in an expensive NY/CA metro, that money can be the difference between unemployment benefits covering your rent or mortgage payment or not, which is a very big deal. California's unemployment benefit caps out at $450/week.
- 120bits 6y ago
  > If you don't live in NY or CA, those extra $600 a week can go very far True. My girlfriend lost her job March. She is unemployed since then. We are not based in NY or CA. She has mentioned this to me several times that how much more she has in savings now. With all this time and some extra cash, I have asked her learn coding. She is working on her app idea.
- pengaru 6y ago
  CA has plenty of people living in poverty $600/wk make a world of difference for.
- Jommi 6y ago
  What planet are we living on? 600 a week is 2400 a month, which way over any entry level salary in Europe. How inflated are the salaries in US? Or are people used to some really abnormal level of living?
  - kcb 6y ago
    $2400 a month is pretty far below entry level for any white color job. Its about what you would earn full time in an Amazon warehouse. Or minimum wage in NYC.
    - pb7 6y ago
duxup 6y ago
Do people maybe see phones and related tech / services as sort of essential?
rootusrootus 6y ago
There are other examples as well. For me, it is RVs. Generally people only buy them when they're feeling good about the future, so you'd expect uncertainty to be devastating right now. Nope, dealers are moving them as fast as they can get them in stock, and they're not budging on price. Normally you only pay about 2/3 MSRP for an RV. Not right now. Sucks because I want to upgrade to something a little bigger, and I don't want to pay an extra 10K just to have it right now. So I'll wait until January and see if the dealer is feeling more agreeable.
- kbenson 6y ago
  Well, that's the safe way to vacation now, take your shelter with you. That seems obvious to me once you mention the trend.
- abtom 6y ago
  Either that, or a large number of people are unable to meet expenses and forced to break bad. /jk
- glofish 6y ago
  RV's are not a good sign of recovery in this case. Usually RVs are bought in addition to other travel, they are more of a luxury item. In the current environment where booking a hotel is considered by some risky RVs are bought as a necessity if one wants to travel.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    Usually RVs are bought in addition to other travel, they are more of a luxury item. I've seen plenty of newspaper items in the last few months about people who usually fly places for summer vacation putting that money into a used, or cheap new R.V. Aside from not being able to fly out of the country, it apparently gives them peace of mind knowing they can take their quarantine bubble with them wherever they go.
- ponker 6y ago
  My dad just bought one so he could get out while social distancing.
kbenson 6y ago
That's likely reduced entertainment expense of eating out and of traveling and vacations shifting at least partially to other areas. An iPhone costs a lot, but so does a week long vacation in another state, and eating out a couple times a week, and those are less likely for a lot of people now.
- myth_drannon 6y ago
  Correct. No family vacations in France/Italy ($15K easy), just spending on gadgets/home renovations.
- dhosek 6y ago
  Anecdotally, our app spending is up a lot since the quarantine began—my kids (6 yo twins) got iPads for their birthday and we've probably spent at least $50 on apps for them alone (a mix of educational apps and games). I imagine there's a lot of educational app purchases happening in general. As an aside, we use new apps as a reward for various exceptional acts. My son looked at my phone not long after we started this and told me that I must have done a lot for my mom to have put so many icons on my phone.
gizmo385 6y ago
Hasn't consumer spending (at least at some level, not completely) been propped up by the unemployment assistance and CARES act checks? I wonder how much spending on these kinds of goods might drop if that assistance goes away.
throwanem 6y ago
Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people are buying new phones while they're sure they can, to avoid the risk of being stuck with an old and potentially failing one when they can't. Phones are luxury goods only up to a point. Especially once you're invested in an app store, it can cost a good deal to switch platforms. And it should be news to no one that having access to communications grows more, not less, important, the closer you get to stony broke.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Perhaps also that Apple is known for making quality phones. In times of economic pressure, people buy for the long-term.
  - alacombe 6y ago
    In times of economic pressure, buying a $1000 phone is not the smartest idea.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      And Apple, of course, makes no phones that sell for under a grand.
    - GeekyBear 6y ago
      Buying a $399 iPhone SE that will receive OS and security updates for at least six years, on the other hand, works out to less than $70 a year.
      - alwillis 6y ago
        And a $399 iPhone SE that's $200 off is even better: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24005628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24005628
- alacombe 6y ago
  > Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people are buying new phones while they're sure they can, to avoid the risk of being stuck with an old and potentially failing one when they can't. I think you're incorrectly assuming people are good at any form of long term financial planning...
caseyohara 6y ago
We'd have to see the product breakdown, but it's possible this could be explained by more people working from home and home schooling; people are likely spending more time on devices like tablets and laptops. If iPhone sales are up, that would indeed be remarkable. Remarkable either way because Apple stores were closed for most of the quarter.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  You're right. The work-from-home angle could be part of it. My company recently announced everyone is staying home for at least the next 10 months, and is trying to get hundreds of iPhones for everyone who didn't have a company-issued phone before. The company my wife works for is half at work, and half at home right now, but everyone is getting new phones, just in case.
jandrewrogers 6y ago
Interestingly, spending on luxury/positional goods does not decline when the economy is poor. This is a well-known effect. That is not where people tend to cut back. If you looked solely at Apple's revenue during 2008/2009 you wouldn't even know there was a crash, never mind one that was severe by any measure.
- troygoode 6y ago
  I don't disagree with your point (it is pretty interesting!) but I do think 2008 – one year after the iPhone was introduced – is a bit of a special scenario for Apple that isn't broadly applicable to other stocks/downturns.
  - runawaybottle 6y ago
    It could still be framed within the realm of the underclass. They don’t have enough money to invest, buy a home, pay off debt, but they can certainly buy the best thing within their buying power - a phone, a tv, heavily financed cars, and so on. I don’t think these buying patterns are incongruous to reality on the ground. In other news, certainly alcohol and drug sales are up too.
biql 6y ago
I’d guess that people buying luxury goods are also the ones least affected by unemployment.
mytailorisrich 6y ago
Here in the UK between working from home and "remote schools" (i.e. schools moving online because of the lockdown) spending on things like home offices, laptops, etc. went up. If you're stuck at home you probably and in any case spend more time online and/or on your phone, which has to be good for whoever owns online app and music stores. (This also explains Facebook's good results). All in all, it's not surprising that results are good for Apple. But it is not sustainable growth.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
chrischen 6y ago
People are saving a lot of money too from not having to commute, entertainment, travel, etc. that spending shifted to consumer goods. Plus, government handed out a lot of free money on too of that.
quicklime 6y ago
Don't forget that they've just released a new MacBook Air and iPhone SE. In hindsight this was the perfect time to be releasing cheap devices like this.
vosper 6y ago
Are these things actually luxury goods? A smartphone is probably one of the most essential and important devices in many peoples lives these days. Certainly one of the most used. There is the option of Android instead of Apple, but as someone pointed out one time, iPhones are cheaper than flagship Android devices if you account for the support lifetime of an iPhone being a lot longer than any Android device. And that's not counting the cheaper iPhone Apple launched recently. Likewise, for many people, a computer would probably be considered an essential device. Sure there are cheaper Windows laptops, but the cost of switching ecosystems is potentially quite high, and if you're already in the i-device camp you're probably going to stick with a Mac due to its integration with all the other things you have (and had before the pandemic) I would count iPads as largely luxury devices.
- throwanem 6y ago
  I'd be fascinated to see a breakout of Apple's quarterly sales by product. I don't know if such a thing is published, and if so I've been unable to find it, but I had also wondered what fraction of it the SE 2 would account for. I remember seeing headlines that it was selling above expectations shortly after launch, but there wasn't any real detail that I recall.
- mrkstu 6y ago
  iPad Pros for non-business use may be luxury devices, but the 'regular' iPad is down to $329 now, solidly low end- especially now that iPad OS has mouse support built in and Safari supports requesting desktop mode pages.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > Are these things actually luxury goods? I have a lot of trouble characterizing tools as luxury goods. I don't consider my Dewalt tools "Luxury Goods" and they cost roughly twice what basic Harbor Freight tools cost. You pay for longevity and performance. It's no different with phones/ tablets/ computers. If you want a phone or tablet that lasts 4+ years there is only one brand that offers that kind of device life. Also, with Apple cranking out the base iPhone at $400, and the massive second hand market for iPhone, it's hard to argue many people associate the brand with luxury the way they do Coach or other luxury brands. If anyone thought Apple was a "luxury" brand, the flop of the solid gold Apple Watch "Edition" sub-brand should have disabused them of the notion.
crazygringo 6y ago
There's a good argument to be made that Apple devices are not luxury goods but save you money in the long run. They often last for many more years than competitors' products, receive upgrades for longer, become obsolete less quickly, and Apple will repair them both under warranty and out of warranty. (Many competitors simply do not service their products.) And when you're finally done with your device, you can often still resell it on eBay and get even further value from it, again often for much more than with competitors' products of the same age. Apple products on the lower end tend to be fantastic investments actually. And given how much we're working from home now, your primary devices for remote communication are hardly "luxury" and more "essential".
- FridgeSeal 6y ago
  Oldest phone that gets iOS updates is what, the 6s or the 7? The former having come out in 2015, that is an amazing support lifetime. I’m planning on keeping my iPhone X past the end of the year, which takes it to a 3 year lifetime, which works out as ~$600/year which is amazing value.
  - adiabatty 6y ago
    Both the 6s(+) and the iPhone SE (the 5s-shaped one that people love for the small size) will be able to get iOS 14 when it comes out later this year.
  - samatman 6y ago
    Those are the oldest phones which still get new versions of iOS. My mother has a 6, and it still gets security updates for (IIRC) iOS 11. It's her second 6, by the way. The battery on the first one started inflating, and they replaced it with a refurbished unit for the price of a new battery. No other company plays in the same league as Apple when it comes to product support.
- thecupisblue 6y ago
  You reminded me of the last time I spent money on a laptop before mac. Well, it wasn't me, it was my parents. For half the price of new mac air, I got a Toshiba budget notebook. It barely lasted 2 years, which was the amount it's "anything happens" warranty expired - which wasn't really anything happens. The CD ROM just didnt slide back in totally one day and stuck. The shift key got so fucked up I had to disable it preboot or I'd be stuck with caps. Fun times. Never again. Made me appreciate macs way more when I got one.
bananaface 6y ago
Everyone is cooped up at home. Not too surprising that they'd buy laptops & ipads.
cobookman 6y ago
My iphone se2 was 400$. I got it at 50% off, so $200. That's not luxury by any means, and is price competitive even with the cheapest of android phones. Apple's lower price-point offerings might have old hardware, but its more than made up for it by just working & offering long-term support. Something no android phone can match.
- scarface74 6y ago
  The iPhone SE has the top of the line processor that is still faster than any Android phone.
shadowtree 6y ago
An iPhone is the durable personal computer for most people. They don't own a "PC", this is the only way to safely conduct e-commerce. Without it, you're done in the modern world (even government interactions, like scheduling a DMV visit). A necessity, not a luxury. Best security, best long term support, best re-sale value. If you're poor, an iPhone is the smartest choice. You need to AFFORD an Android device.
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  I'm surprised to see you say "most people," as Android is what, 85% of the market?
  - casefields 6y ago
    Not in the US which is what OP was referring to. Also, that worldwide market share is massive for junky low-end androids. iPhone alone is ~50% of US market share: https://www.statista.com/topics/2711/us-smartphone-market/ https://www.statista.com/topics/2711/us-smartphone-market/ Android splits the rest.
    - VikingCoder 6y ago
      Sorry, where does it say or imply "US"? Presumably people are buying the best phone for their budget and needs. Per OP, "They don't own a PC, this is the only way to safely conduct e-commerce." How many people with an iPhone do you want to bet have a PC, versus how many people with a "junky low-end android"? I'll bet you vastly more iPhone owners have another computer.
      - samatman 6y ago
        "DMV" implies the US, although I can see where that might not be clear to a reader from another country. Like it or not, HN is an English-language forum, run by a company based out of SF, and a lot of commentators presume that context. I try not to, just as I strive to use clear English for the benefit of ESL speakers. But it is the default.
snowwrestler 6y ago
Maybe a tangent here, but I don't think it's accurate to think about Apple stuff as luxury goods. For example, I don't think the volume they do in phones aligns with the typical notion of a luxury brand. The best-selling single smartphone model on the market is the iPhone. In analogy with the car market: BMW, Mercedes, Lexus do not have a best-selling model among them. The iPhone is more like the Ford F-150, in terms of how it fits into the broader marketplace, than it is like a luxury car. The F-150 is not inexpensive! But it's not a luxury vehicle either. Why am I bothering with this argument... because I think it leads to confusion about Apple's business, like the comment above. Apple does well because they sell products people want, on the high end of the range, but well within what a lot of people can afford.
- mdoms 6y ago
  A Ford F-150 is absolutely a luxury vehicle. And I don't see any way you can look at an Apple iPhone as anything other than a luxury purchase, regardless of the market share.
  - tly_alex 6y ago
    "The F-150 carries a base price of $28,495, which is below average for a full-size pickup truck." This is just a quick search from Google. I think ppl might have different opinion of the word "luxury". But generally I would personally not categorize things that's widely sold like F-150 or iPhone as luxury.
    - stiglitz 6y ago
      I’d gauge luxury on necessity, not commonness.
      - corin_ 6y ago
        It's a bit of both, and subjective, imo. As an example, pretty much every item of food is "luxury" if based on necessity alone. From bread to the cheapest vegetable in your location - except for items that might be the only locally available/affordable way of getting certain essential nutrients, you don't need that specific food for a healthy life. But... if that food can only be grown on the other side of the world, and therefore is in short supply and/or very expensive relative to local wealth: suddenly maybe that vegetable, type of meat, or whatever is considered a luxury without becoming more of a dietary necessity. Would the cheapest, most common Casio watch available be a luxury because I don't need to have the time on my wrist? As to the subjective/contextual side: I don't know anything about pickups, but I consider my car a luxury to me, and yes that's more to do with necessity than cost - it's not a fancy car, I could afford a much more expensive one, but I very much don't need it. I've never used it in relation to work, I get my groceries delivered, etc. (But while I'd call it a luxury for my life, if asked what kind of car I have I'd never call it a "luxury car".)
baxtr 6y ago
I never thought of it as a luxury. Actually quite the opposite. A luxury is something that I pay a lot of money for but don’t use it a lot. For me at least. The price per minute used is quite low...
dillonmckay 6y ago
Very few people are paying full price, up front. It is like leasing a car, except it is a hand computer.
justanotheranon 6y ago
you can buy a new Nokia 2.2 android phone for $100 on Amazon. it works perfectly for 99% of what you might ever need to do. phones are now at the point where PCs were in 2010--commoditized and at a technical peak. so there is no longer a compelling reason for the average person to buy the newest most expensive model every year. Apple should be dying. maybe it's delayed and we'll see Apple's first decline in revenue in 2-3 years.
kitotik 6y ago
Looking at the numbers, both iPad and Mac sales exceeded estimates, iPhone was inline. Seems likely a lot of this came from laptop and iPad sales for work-from-home, and home education respectively, as opposed to frivolous luxury consumer spending.
nojito 6y ago
>consumer spending on luxury goods is pretty remarkable The vast majority of Apple products and services are no where near "luxury" prices.
microtherion 6y ago
I just read today that disposable personal income in the US rose by 10% in Q2, thanks to stimulus: https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/1288816606165032962 https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/12888166061650... If congress really does not extend benefits, there's bound to be a sizable negative effect.
Hippocrates 6y ago
I don't know if I would classify Apple products as strictly luxury, certainly not in the same sense as a Casio vs a Rolex, a Jansport vs Gucci, or a studio vs a 1 bedroom, Honda vs a BMW, staycation watching Disney+ vs trip to Disney. When I think of cutting back on luxury, I am looking for things with a very high incremental cost to incremental value ratio. Apple products could be one but it would be farrrr down the list speaking for myself and others I know.
dzonga 6y ago
ipads for education, mac's etc. working from home can drive sales, as folks need mobile equipment. and most sane companies are able to let a user choose equipment. in the small to medium shops it's less costly to run mac equipment than windows in the long run due to saner security requirements etc.
wil421 6y ago
What makes you think companies aren’t buying these for use due to COVID? Doctors and nurses video conferencing patients, schools switching to e-learning, and any other businesses sending workers home who may or may not have a computer. Certain industries might also be switching to FaceTiming/Video Conferencing customers.

elevenoh 6y ago

Is this hackernews or wallstreetbets? ;)

Kkoala 6y ago

It's Q2 right? Or do they not use the calendar year for accounting?

xondono 6y ago
They don’t use the calendar numbering, but I don’t really know why
- DelaneyM 6y ago
  Along other reasons, with such a massive percentage of their income (and income variability) in Q4, it really helps their accountants to close out a tax year in the (relatively) predictable and stable Sept after three quarters of normalizing cashflows. Sheltering taxes in a double-Irish requires pretty accurate projections. Also often they just don't have all the data they need to close out a year until a few weeks after holidays, especially if people are taking a break, so it's just a lot easier on the humans involved.
- coldtea 6y ago
  Apparently: For a variety of reasons, some public companies will use a non-standard or non-calendar quarterly reporting system. For example, Walmart's first quarter is February, March, and April; Apple Inc's Q1 is October, November, and December; Microsoft Corporation's Q1 is July, August, and September. In addition, certain governments use different quarter systems. The first quarter of the United States federal government’s fiscal year is October, November, and December, Q2 is January, February, and March, Q3 is April, May, and June, and Q4 is July, August, and September. State governments may also have their own fiscal calendars. Sometimes a company may have a non-standard fiscal year to help with business or tax planning. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) allows companies to choose a “tax year” that is still 52-53 weeks long but does not end in December. H&R Block (HRB) ends its fiscal year on April 30th, which makes sense because that is the end of the busiest part of the company’s year. Releasing your annual report, which may be accompanied by shareholder meetings and additional disclosures after the busiest part of your year will help managers and shareholders make better decisions about the year ahead. Companies that rely on U.S. government contracts may use September as the end of their fiscal year, and the fourth quarter because that is when they expect new projects to be closed and budget planning from the government to be available. Historically, large technology firms had stronger quarters early in the year, which is why many of them (including Microsoft (MSFT)) have a fiscal year that closes at the end of June. Some companies have very unusual quarterly systems. Adobe (ADBE) closes their fiscal year on the Friday closest to November 30th. In 2018, November 30th was a Friday, as well as the last day of the month but in 2017, ADBE closed their fourth quarter and the fiscal year on Friday, December 1st, because it was the Friday closest to November 30th.

adtac 6y ago

>The Board of Directors has also approved a four-for-one stock split to make the stock more accessible to a broader base of investors. Each Apple shareholder of record at the close of business on August 24, 2020 will receive three additional shares for every share held on the record date, and trading will begin on a split-adjusted basis on August 31, 2020.

meddlepal 6y ago
What's the split price? $Close / 4?
- anthony_r 6y ago
  There is no such thing as "split price". You get 4 shares for each share you previously owned, and it's up to the market to resume trading at a new level. It's a non-event, really, except it makes some operations easier.
  - 3pt14159 6y ago
    Yeah, it was getting a bit pricy to buy lots of 100 apple shares at a time and sell covered calls. This is much better. Honestly I think selling covered call on Apple is one of the few good plays left out there. Long term the company's value is going to keep going up, but with so much volatility in the market lately option premiums are bananas and though I expect a pretty dramatic stock market pullback Apple is one of the few companies that has very strong fundamentals and should weather it pretty well.
    - anthony_r 6y ago
      Ah yes, selling volatility via covered calls. The institutional investors' second favourite way of collecting "extra income" in the zero rates world, second only to explicit leverage. Some of them sold much more volatility, via variance swaps, with quite disastrous results. https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1lffwvwdh7xtq/Amateurish-Trades-Blew-Up-AIMCo-s-Volatility-Program-Experts-Say https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1lffwvwdh7xtq...

bitxbit 6y ago

Anxiety induced shopping is a real thing. Leisure travel is another huge wallet share that’s been nonexistent for several months now.

jjcon 6y ago
Anecdotally that is totally the case for me - I’ve been spending money on lots of tech and random fun items. Despite my purchases though my spending is overall down because I’m not eating out, going on trips/vacations.

tqi 6y ago

Apple, Alphabet, Amazon, and Facebook, which combined are worth almost $5 trillion dollars[1] all releasing earnings on the same day seems crazy. From what I could find, that is 14% (5T/35T) of the total stock market posting earnings on the same day [2]. I'm curious if anyone has thoughts on what effect that has on the overall market in terms of volatility? (I really have no good idea as to how any of this works) Could we see other stocks dip/rise as money is reallocated? [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/big-tech-including-apple-and-facebook-report-earnings-late-thursday-which-could-mean-a-crazy-market-day-on-friday.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/big-tech-including-apple-and... [2] https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/ https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/

nutshell89 6y ago
I guess this is the biggest argument for breaking up the tech giants - not only are there clear examples of each company either abusing public trust or using their size in anti-competitive ways, but their wealth shields them from having to meaningfully engage with the public at large or reign in said behavior.
- scarface74 6y ago
  There are alternative to each of the four. No one forces anyone to use any of their products. Definitely no one forces people to buy Apple’s products at a large premium over their competitors. I would say that Apple has to work harder to get users to willingly depart with their cash.
  - alwillis 6y ago
    >I would say that Apple has to work harder to get users to willingly depart with their cash. Actually, it's often the opposite. In the Boston area, the Apple Stores are always packed while the Microsoft Store (now closed) was usually mostly empty in the high-end mall across the street from the stand-alone Boylston Street Apple Store. Price isn't the primary factor for many people, especially younger people. First, there's no real price difference between high-end Android phones—the newest Samsung, for example—and similar iPhones. A Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G 128GB list price is $1399; the iPhone 11 Pro Max with 256GB (double the storage) is $1249. That's $52.04/month. I worked with 24 public high school kids last summer. Most of them were from 1st or 2nd generation immigrant families and would qualify for free or reduced lunch at school. Every one of them had a newer model iPhone than my 6s at the time. Zero Android devices. Which confirmed something I learned from market analysis years ago regarding Apple: people with limited funds can't afford to make a mistake when spending their limited money, which is why they tend to gravitate to higher quality, better made products. Yes, there was the typical desire for teens to have the right sneakers, t-shirt, jeans, etc. The iPhone is definitely in that category, with 85% of them either owning or intending to buy an iPhone: https://www.phonearena.com/news/teens-love-apple_id123682 https://www.phonearena.com/news/teens-love-apple_id123682.

racl101 6y ago

Wonder how much of that revenue is sweet refund transaction fees lol.

jpxw 6y ago
$0. That HN post was based on a falsehood

scarface74 6y ago

For people who like charts. https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/07/apple-q3-2020-results-everything-up/ https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/07/apple-q3-2020-results-eve...

JoshTko 6y ago

Really unexpected that YOY revenue is up for Mac 22% and iPad 31%. Also unexpected that service revenue growth seems to have slowed.

ajzinsbwbs 6y ago

Wow, iPad revenue up 31% YoY after being down ~10% in the last few quarters. Similar numbers to a Q1 (holiday season). I guess it makes sense that the tablet form factor is popular when so many people are indoors. Also, services revenue grew YoY but it’s the first time it didn’t grow QoQ in a long time, so it seems to have stagnated. Services include a lot of recurring revenue so they should be consistently growing QoQ. Wearables growth also slowed, this may be the other side of the coin when people are indoors and don’t want to buy a watch for fitness tracking.

kwijibob 6y ago
My guess for increased iPad sales: Zoom conferencing during COVID
- ekianjo 6y ago
  This is probably the largest driver.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- shmoogy 6y ago
  If that's the case, I wonder if webcam sales would affect revenue for Logitech or another big manufacturer.
spideymans 6y ago
>Wow, iPad revenue up 31% YoY after being down ~10% in the last few quarters. Similar numbers to a Q1 (holiday season). I guess it makes sense that the tablet form factor is popular when so many people are indoors. I wonder how much this has to do with the release of iPadOS 13, which has made the iPad a significantly more capable "computer" than previous versions of the operating system. For the majority of users (you don't fall into this category, fellow Hacker News reader), the capabilities of iPadOS are quickly approaching that of macOS.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago

simonebrunozzi 6y ago

Would you agree that the Tl;dr would simply be "unstoppable"?

KeBugCheckEx 6y ago

When did Apple started distributing dividends? I remember them being known for not doing so.

kondro 6y ago
When they ran out of things they could reasonably spend their cash on.
jjtheblunt 6y ago
I believe around 2013 Apple altered its buyback and dividend practices, as large shareholder Carl Icahn seemed at the time to be trying to manipulate the company and shareholders to his own advantage. Several articles discussed such around the time. Here are a few. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-carl-icahn-apple-stake--20140122-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-carl-ic... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/carl-icahns-2-billion-apple-stake-was-a-prime-example-of-investment-inequality-2016-06-07 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/carl-icahns-2-billion-appl... https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2017/11/10/carl-icahn-sold-apple-too-soon-it-cost-him-3-7b/#366f46d32cea https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2017/11/10/carl-icah...

XcrossSaber 6y ago

:( and here i am still waiting for Apple product to reduce its price, coz i thought in pandemic, people will keep money for groceries, medical bill and not electronic devices.

ragazzina 6y ago
Their phones start at $399. Do you consider it too high?