18 ms·

AMD Reports Q2 2020 Earnings

309 points by galeos 6y ago

liquidise 6y ago
Good for them. I daily drive an AMD Hackintosh (3900X) and the price to performance ratio of this chip is excellent. More broadly, consumers are real winners with this zen-powered competition of the last few years. Intel first dropped prices aggressively and now with them shaking up the tech org it seems likely the two companies will have to fight one another for consumer dollars for years to come.
- andy_ppp 6y ago
  Tempting... Does it crash at all? How is upgrading for security updates?
  - tdiggity 6y ago
    No crashes, security updates work. AMD Hackintoshes are solid.
    - tachion 6y ago
      They are "solid" in the context of hackintosh community (not to mention non-Intel hackintoshes are considered to be less solid and more risky even by the community). I would dare to say they are not solid in the understanding and expectations of anyone else, and I'm saying that from a perspective of hackintosh user, one of the most recommended "golden builds" with components carefully selected to be as close to real Mac as possible. And it is still full of issues, intermittent, persistent, every OS update is a stress, every Clover/drivers update is a stress and risk and so on. Yet, for a hackintosh, it is solid. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone and I regret spending money on it ;)
      - rubber_duck 6y ago
        Is your workflow OSX specific ? I switched to MBP and OSX 2 years ago for iOS development but OSX has been getting slower and slower with each update. And I'm running a 15" i9 with 32gb ram and Vega 20 - I see noticeable UI lag on my 5k monitor with native lightweight apps (eg resizing telegram/WhatsApp), Chrome is getting slower and Firefox is no champ either. I recently booted to win 10 bootcamp for some game and was shocked at how much smoother the experience was. Need to do some benchmarking but just running VS code and docker felt noticeably faster on win 10 - same machine - and Macs have terrible windows drivers
        mjayhn 6y ago
        I've spent the last 3 months slowly trying to move to WSL/WSL2 on the weekend and the experience has been really bad IMO. Right now I'm in some state where I somehow deleted my Ubuntu WSL vm and nothing I do will get it to reinstall so that I can use WSL again. I'm so sick of dealing with this OS. It actually reminds me of trying to get my hackintosh to work and wasting an entire weekend testing different .kexts before I could even get to doing the actual work I wanted to do (code). With that said Catalina/Mojave have been insanely buggy and I'm dying for a middle ground between osx and windows that isn't linux. I wish cocoa was opensourced. But at least on my 16" mbp I can open it, maybe have sound not work, docker/windowserve/kernel-task consume all of my memory for no reason and have to restart it every few days but I can usually just open it and code and not worry about breaking ancillary stuff that takes me a day or three to fix.
        tachion 6y ago
        I think I could say my workflow isn't Mac OS specific, but for my own use, I think it is. I require 1st class Unix userland tools (which WSL isn't), fast native terminal (which nothing on Windows and most on Linux aren't) and due to me not being 20 anymore, an OS that "Just Works" (which Linux isn't for sure and Windows most often isn't either) that doesn't actively spy on me (which Windows does) and runs on a well made hardware (which Mac OS does only on Apple machines). I've talked about that at lengths, feel free to check my comments, for me Mac OS is the only viable OS right now.
      - 6y ago
- bhtru 6y ago
  Haven't looked into Hackintoshes for a while. Surprised to read that AMD chips are compatible now. Nice.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Good luck with Apple Silicon.
  - tim-- 6y ago
    Apple will still support Intel for the next five years, if not longer. I'm not sure if this is a problem for today.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Obviously it is not a problem for today, nor during the transition phase. Afterwards those red Fiats with Ferrari stickers won't do anymore.
      - coolspot 6y ago
        Hackintosh is actually more like a Ferrari with a FIAT sticker, performance-wise.
- Tepix 6y ago
  What are the things that don't work? Does power management work? Suspend/resume? Audio? Thunderbolt? Multiple monitors?
  - mrgreenfur 6y ago
    Sleep is pretty tough to get working, but some folks have managed recently; wifi works with a compatible card; facetime/imessage all works flawlessly; lots more info at amd-osx.com
gkkirilov 6y ago
Looking to buy a Ryzen laptop (G14) in the near future, those chips are amazing performers and have great battery life. Well deserved record quarter.
- cpursley 6y ago
  I really want the G14 as a durable performant work machine but it has no webcam :(
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    Yeah, you can tell they designed that machine way before the pandemic and WFH was the norm and they switched to a no-webcam-on-gaming-laptops mantra. ASUS engineer: "laptop webcams have shitty quality and gamers don't use them anyway, let's just not include one and save ourselves the BOM cost; applause from bean-counters" Covid-19 WFH: "I'm gonna end this man's whole career" I'm sure their hindsight is now 20/20 though.
    - xiphias2 6y ago
      MacBook Pros got the right balance between usability, features and power a long time ago, other companies should just copy & modernize it. Not having webcam on a laptop is unacceptable (though having a physical switch on it is a great feature for privacy).
      - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
        I disagree, other companies should definitely stay away from copying the modern Macs. I like having choices regarding OS, hardware configuration, ports, keyboards, displays, upgradeability, reaprability etc.. If you want a Mac copy then the Mac will be the best anyway.
        xiphias2 6y ago
        I don't like the post Steve Jobs direction that the Macbook Pro took, so it's a no-go for me. I had a company macbook pro in 2008 and I loved it (except the OS and the keyboard layout). It had great sound (I had more expensive laptops with worse speakers since then). Also the display was perfect for me (especially outside in sunshine...). Maybe it's just my memory, but I don't feel that the current laptop offerings are that much better.
chvid 6y ago
The real threat to intel comes from arm not amd. Amd is also threatened by arm. If you compare with intels numbers. Then amd is a dwarf. And the growth figures are loosely following intels: https://www.intc.com/investor-relations/investor-education-and-news/investor-news/press-release-details/2020/Intel-Reports-Second-Quarter-2020-Financial-Results/default.aspx https://www.intc.com/investor-relations/investor-education-a...
- emdowling 6y ago
  I agree that ARM is a threat to AMD as well, but AMD has two things going for it: 1. Stronger x86 design: AMD's recent CPU releases have shown they are inching ahead of Intel on x86 design, and are able to achieve significantly better cost per $. At the same time, AMD are already well into shifting a big chunk their 7nm manufacturing to TSMC. Intel has only just started this process. 2. A strong GPU business: Yes, they are second to Nvidia, but given the design skills they are showing on the CPU side, I expect that gap will narrow very quickly. Both Sony and Microsoft have chosen AMD for CPU and GPU in the PS5 and Xbox Series X, with support for full 4k ray-tracing. Given how long this generation of consoles will be on the market for (likely 5-10 years at least), it is a strong forward indicator of roadmap strength. tl;dr: I expect AMD will weather* the ARM storm better than Intel. * Originally a typo as "whether". Thanks for the correction!
  - roel_v 6y ago
    *weather (sorry for nitpicking)
  - jannes 6y ago
    I wouldn't interpret Sony's and Microsoft's decision for AMD graphics as anything other than Nvidia being dickheads. Keep in mind that Apple is also exclusively building Macs with AMD graphics cards. They don't even support Nvidia cards as eGPU anymore. The rumour is that Nvidia is not willing to do any customised designs and someone at Apple is very upset with Nvidia.
    - SXX 6y ago
rydre 6y ago
If Intel has another delay, they're dead. They'll be like Boeing (but their mistake won't directly kill people). It'll mean that all engineering culture is dead and the best minds have already left the company. Everyone who at Intel who predicted the wrong schedule and not a realistic one should be fired. They have destroyed a national champion in their short term greed.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Their best minds have definitely not left the company. Probably, just like with Boeing, they're just watching the clock, waiting for their retirement and for the quarterly bonus to come in. Let's not pretend Intel is dead, they just had a record quarter and my friends working there still got sizable bonuses.
  - rydre 6y ago
    Companies have growth even after they're dead. When the growth slows, by then it's too late.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      According to your logic, AMD was also dead a few years ago.
      - rydre 6y ago
        AMD is the exception, not the norm. There are very few companies that can do that turn around. And AMD was lucky that Intel wasn't able to continue their progress. Had Intel still been ahead of AMD, AMD's revenue's wont be growing.
  - jimbob45 6y ago
    What’s the best case scenario for them though? The mobile market is already permanently blown for them. Best case AMD chips are heavily defective next gen and Intel price/performance blows AMD out of the water with 7nm...which AMD has now already shipped. My pet theory is that the Trump funds to keep American microchip manufacturing afloat has made a Intel complacent. Maybe they’re just dunces though.
ckastner 6y ago
I'm a huge AMD fan but I fear that its current valuation already has an immense amount of success already priced in. They are doing absolutely spectacular work, but there's still much to do, and there are significant risks. They have been making progress on the GPU side, but as long as they don't provide a CUDA-like ecosystem and experience, I don't see them challenging NVIDIA soon in the accelerator market. I'm pretty confident that they will continue to outpace Intel on the CPU side, but with Amazon's Graviton2, and the recent TOP500-success of Fugaku -- pure ARM, no accelerators - there is still a tremendous amount of competition ahead.
- WJW 6y ago
  One of the most interesting aspects of investing is that the success of a company and its stock are only loosely correlated. It's entirely possible for an investor to do very poorly after investing in a company that grows a lot if the price they paid was too high (as you mention, AMD might be in such a situation right now). Conversely it's entirely possible to make excellent returns on the stock of a company that is not growing (or even shrinking) but pays out large dividends.
- nabla9 6y ago
  If you think P/E ratio of 25 to be reasonable after the growth spurt slows down, AMD's earnings must grow 10% per year next 20 years, or 20% per year next 10 years, or 30% per year next 8 years, or 50% per year next 5 years to get P/E 25 with current price. I don't think the price is unreasonably high but I don't think ROI will be very high if you buy AMD today.
  - mrfredward 6y ago
    Looking at earnings growth as a steady process can be misleading when profit margins vary. Intel has a 26% net margin, and AMD is just over 8%, so if AMD gets Intel's pricing power their earnings could be 3X as high before any change in revenue. For a look at the pathological case, realize that a company that breaks even one year and makes a trivially small profit the next has experienced infinite earnings growth. That being said, I agree it looks like AMD stock is priced for something spectacular to happen, which makes me more excited about their chips than their stock.
tayo42 6y ago
Random comment about AMD, but damn their cpu line naming is really confusing. between zen, zen+, zen2, threadripper, ryzen 7,8,9. ryzen is actually 3 different architectures? then there's like ryzen 7 2000, 3000, now 4000. But for the laptop cpus the architectures are actually different. zen2 isn't used in the ryzen 3000 mobile cpus. Then you can look at best buy and see a laptop listed using a 3rd gen ryzen. Im not sure what that is actually referring to. I'm not sure how this compares to their epyc line either. I still need to read up on that...
- retSava 6y ago
  Yeah. Other "favorites", which include also unclear directions where products are heading, are eg Microsoft Xbox naming: Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox Series X (compare against PlayStation 1--5), and the Google chat/videocall product lines: Duo, Hangout, Meet, etc.
  - ploxiln 6y ago
    you missed the "Xbox One X"
  - doikor 6y ago
    To be honest Nintendo is just as bad at naming their consoles but for some reason get a lot less hate (outside of Wii U) Nintendo Entertainment System, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, Nintendo 64, GameCube, Wii, Wii U, Nintendo Switch, Nintendo Switch Lite or the handheld ones Game Boy, Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Light, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advanced, Game Boy Advanced SP, Game Boy Advanced Micro, Nintendo DS, Nintendo DS Lite, Nintendo DSi, Nintendo DSi XL
    - easton 6y ago
      Don't forget about the crown jewel of the Nintendo name collection, the "New" Nintendo 3DS / "New" Nintendo 3DS XL. Which is a whole heck of a lot worse than the Wii U, in my opinion.
- xorfish 6y ago
mythz 6y ago
Interesting to compare Q2 2020 results between Intel & AMD: Intel Revenue: 19.7B, Net Income: 5.1B, Market Cap: 209.42B, P/E: 9.06 AMD Revenue: 1.93B, Net Income: 157M, Market Cap: 79.2B, P/E: 133.82 But by the sentiment of all media reports INTC is in sharp decline & AMD is killing it, yet even in their most recent results Intel revenue/earnings still dwarfs AMD's.
- orbifold 6y ago
  The stock price is in part determined by the discounted future Cashflow, the one of AMD is pointing upwards that of Intel seems neutral or declining. Intel had a long string of failures and bad acquisitions recently, which points to bad management. AMD has all the potential to attack Nvidia’s deep learning moat with in house talent. Maybe this is all wishful thinking though, but my AMD calls jumped 46% within a day.
  - RavlaAlvar 6y ago
    I am not seeing AMD putting any serious contenders for CUDA though.
    - xondono 6y ago
      They don’t really need to. Nvidia will have to validate and launch all of it’s PCIe4 on Epyc/Ryzen processors, so it’s not like AMD won’t benefit from the Deep Learning hype
    - zucker42 6y ago
      Isn't HIP+ROCm a serious "competitor" to CUDA? You can convert your code automatic from CUDA to HIP. At least that's why the advertising says; I haven't used it myself. Plus, PyTorch and Tensorflow have AMD support, I thought.
      - TomVDB 6y ago
        It may convert your own code, but it can’t convert the CUDA libraries. It also doesn’t help that AMD has stopped supporting ROCm for the current consumer GPUs.
galeos 6y ago
While most of the focus here is understandably on the CPU side, there seems to be some interesting shifts taking place on the GPU side. AMD currently has a process lead over Nvidia (and this is rumoured to be set to continue for a little while longer - apparently the first consumer Ampere chips are being fabbed on Samsung's inferior 8nm process due to lack of capacity at TSMC for the next few months) Nvidia has clearly had an architecture advantage, although RDNA2 may close this gap, depending on how Ampere performs. While Nvidia has had a much stronger showing in the GPGPU space, with CUDA helping it be the clear current winner, this also appears to have driven architecture decisions at Nvidia with the focus on tensor cores. In gaming, Nvidia has put a lot of work into utilising these tensor cores for Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS). The idea being that you render at a lower resolution and then use deep learning to upscale in real-time to higher resolutions. DLSS 2.0 made some leaps in quality and DLSS 3.0 is on the horizon. It will be interesting to see: a) How well they can get this working b) Is AMD working on its own version of this? c) If so, how well will the RDNA architecture be suited to this approach? Will be interesting to watch how this plays out!
- theevilsharpie 6y ago
  > apparently the first consumer Ampere chips are being fabbed on Samsung's inferior 8nm process due to lack of capacity at TSMC for the next few months) I just wanted to clarify to anyone else that was initially confused, that the parent is referring to Nvidia's next-generation GPU architecture, not the ARM CPU developer.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Lets put it this way, Octane Render has dropped Vulkan support and replaced it with CUDA based Optix 7. https://home.otoy.com/render/octane-render/ https://home.otoy.com/render/octane-render/ So how is AMD going to get relevant in the Hollywood and TV studios that are the big buyers of OctaneRender?
  - Arelius 6y ago
    I wasn't aware that OctaneRender was actually a large portion of the Hollywood and TV studio segment.
sara889 6y ago
<a href="https://www.jioprize.com/">Jio https://www.jioprize.com/">Jio lottery</a> Jio Lottery Official Website is only Jioprize.com Jio Lottery Head Office Jio Lottery Official Jio Lottery Head office Jio Helpline Jio Lottery 2020 Jio Lottery Check online Jio mega draw Jio Lucky winner Jio Jackpot Jio Winner list KBC Jio winner Jio KBC mega Draw Jio Lottery
sara889 6y ago
<a href="https://www.jioprize.com/">Jio https://www.jioprize.com/">Jio lottery Offical</a>
sara889 6y ago
https://www.jioprize.com https://www.jioprize.com
sara889 6y ago
https://www.jioprize.com/ https://www.jioprize.com/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rubber_duck 6y ago
A couple of years ago I remember seeing a video where a Google engineer said they were working on CUDA to AMD compilers and a push to standardize CUDA - what happened to that ? Or am I misremembering something ?
- shaklee3 6y ago
  This? https://research.google/pubs/pub45226/ https://research.google/pubs/pub45226/ AMD already has a cuda to rocm transpiler, but their libraries are so lacking that many things cannot be converted.
Teknoman117 6y ago
Man I really wish I bought AMD stock when Ryzen was announced.
x3haloed 6y ago
The real question facing us now, I believe, is how is AMD going to compete with ARM-based silicon? I believe that ARM is on the path to dominance due to performance per watt. Does AMD have a path to continue to win at that game?
- bob1029 6y ago
  I think it ultimately boils down to who has the best CPU architecture if you are talking exclusively about performance-per-watt. Right now, it feels like AMD/ARM are going to be very competitive with each other in the mobile segment, but only on paper. They mostly stay in their own separate market arenas. Apple may disrupt this soon. The bigger picture is that x86 is a platform that most of the business world runs on top of right now. ARM is certainly pushing into that arena, but AMD is keeping the x86 offering very attractive. I am of the camp that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with x86, and especially not its recent implementations. It is an old & dirty ISA, but it gets the job done. Every scenario on earth has been thrown at it and it has adapted to suit. Decades of iteration and testing with billions of participants. All AMD needs to do is continue cranking out 100W+ TDP parts that tear through workloads. The current style of ARM devices cannot keep up with power budgets like that. I believe they would have to completely redesign their architecture if they wanted to move from 5-15W up to something like the toasty 225W TDP of the 7742.
microcolonel 6y ago
Side note: is there some reason why the columns in the tables are ordered most-recent, least-recent, second-most-recent?
- ksec 6y ago
  It is not least-recent, it is YoY. Current Quarter, YoY Quarter, last Quarter.

309 points by galeos 6y ago

Good for them. I daily drive an AMD Hackintosh (3900X) and the price to performance ratio of this chip is excellent. More broadly, consumers are real winners with this zen-powered competition of the last few years. Intel first dropped prices aggressively and now with them shaking up the tech org it seems likely the two companies will have to fight one another for consumer dollars for years to come.

andy_ppp 6y ago
Tempting... Does it crash at all? How is upgrading for security updates?
- tdiggity 6y ago
  No crashes, security updates work. AMD Hackintoshes are solid.
  - tachion 6y ago
    They are "solid" in the context of hackintosh community (not to mention non-Intel hackintoshes are considered to be less solid and more risky even by the community). I would dare to say they are not solid in the understanding and expectations of anyone else, and I'm saying that from a perspective of hackintosh user, one of the most recommended "golden builds" with components carefully selected to be as close to real Mac as possible. And it is still full of issues, intermittent, persistent, every OS update is a stress, every Clover/drivers update is a stress and risk and so on. Yet, for a hackintosh, it is solid. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone and I regret spending money on it ;)
    - rubber_duck 6y ago
      Is your workflow OSX specific ? I switched to MBP and OSX 2 years ago for iOS development but OSX has been getting slower and slower with each update. And I'm running a 15" i9 with 32gb ram and Vega 20 - I see noticeable UI lag on my 5k monitor with native lightweight apps (eg resizing telegram/WhatsApp), Chrome is getting slower and Firefox is no champ either. I recently booted to win 10 bootcamp for some game and was shocked at how much smoother the experience was. Need to do some benchmarking but just running VS code and docker felt noticeably faster on win 10 - same machine - and Macs have terrible windows drivers
      - mjayhn 6y ago
        I've spent the last 3 months slowly trying to move to WSL/WSL2 on the weekend and the experience has been really bad IMO. Right now I'm in some state where I somehow deleted my Ubuntu WSL vm and nothing I do will get it to reinstall so that I can use WSL again. I'm so sick of dealing with this OS. It actually reminds me of trying to get my hackintosh to work and wasting an entire weekend testing different .kexts before I could even get to doing the actual work I wanted to do (code). With that said Catalina/Mojave have been insanely buggy and I'm dying for a middle ground between osx and windows that isn't linux. I wish cocoa was opensourced. But at least on my 16" mbp I can open it, maybe have sound not work, docker/windowserve/kernel-task consume all of my memory for no reason and have to restart it every few days but I can usually just open it and code and not worry about breaking ancillary stuff that takes me a day or three to fix.
      - tachion 6y ago
        I think I could say my workflow isn't Mac OS specific, but for my own use, I think it is. I require 1st class Unix userland tools (which WSL isn't), fast native terminal (which nothing on Windows and most on Linux aren't) and due to me not being 20 anymore, an OS that "Just Works" (which Linux isn't for sure and Windows most often isn't either) that doesn't actively spy on me (which Windows does) and runs on a well made hardware (which Mac OS does only on Apple machines). I've talked about that at lengths, feel free to check my comments, for me Mac OS is the only viable OS right now.
    - 6y ago
bhtru 6y ago
Haven't looked into Hackintoshes for a while. Surprised to read that AMD chips are compatible now. Nice.
pjmlp 6y ago
Good luck with Apple Silicon.
- tim-- 6y ago
  Apple will still support Intel for the next five years, if not longer. I'm not sure if this is a problem for today.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Obviously it is not a problem for today, nor during the transition phase. Afterwards those red Fiats with Ferrari stickers won't do anymore.
    - coolspot 6y ago
      Hackintosh is actually more like a Ferrari with a FIAT sticker, performance-wise.
Tepix 6y ago
What are the things that don't work? Does power management work? Suspend/resume? Audio? Thunderbolt? Multiple monitors?
- mrgreenfur 6y ago
  Sleep is pretty tough to get working, but some folks have managed recently; wifi works with a compatible card; facetime/imessage all works flawlessly; lots more info at amd-osx.com

gkkirilov 6y ago

Looking to buy a Ryzen laptop (G14) in the near future, those chips are amazing performers and have great battery life. Well deserved record quarter.

cpursley 6y ago
I really want the G14 as a durable performant work machine but it has no webcam :(
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Yeah, you can tell they designed that machine way before the pandemic and WFH was the norm and they switched to a no-webcam-on-gaming-laptops mantra. ASUS engineer: "laptop webcams have shitty quality and gamers don't use them anyway, let's just not include one and save ourselves the BOM cost; applause from bean-counters" Covid-19 WFH: "I'm gonna end this man's whole career" I'm sure their hindsight is now 20/20 though.
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    MacBook Pros got the right balance between usability, features and power a long time ago, other companies should just copy & modernize it. Not having webcam on a laptop is unacceptable (though having a physical switch on it is a great feature for privacy).
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      I disagree, other companies should definitely stay away from copying the modern Macs. I like having choices regarding OS, hardware configuration, ports, keyboards, displays, upgradeability, reaprability etc.. If you want a Mac copy then the Mac will be the best anyway.
      - xiphias2 6y ago
        I don't like the post Steve Jobs direction that the Macbook Pro took, so it's a no-go for me. I had a company macbook pro in 2008 and I loved it (except the OS and the keyboard layout). It had great sound (I had more expensive laptops with worse speakers since then). Also the display was perfect for me (especially outside in sunshine...). Maybe it's just my memory, but I don't feel that the current laptop offerings are that much better.

chvid 6y ago

The real threat to intel comes from arm not amd. Amd is also threatened by arm. If you compare with intels numbers. Then amd is a dwarf. And the growth figures are loosely following intels: https://www.intc.com/investor-relations/investor-education-and-news/investor-news/press-release-details/2020/Intel-Reports-Second-Quarter-2020-Financial-Results/default.aspx https://www.intc.com/investor-relations/investor-education-a...

emdowling 6y ago
I agree that ARM is a threat to AMD as well, but AMD has two things going for it: 1. Stronger x86 design: AMD's recent CPU releases have shown they are inching ahead of Intel on x86 design, and are able to achieve significantly better cost per $. At the same time, AMD are already well into shifting a big chunk their 7nm manufacturing to TSMC. Intel has only just started this process. 2. A strong GPU business: Yes, they are second to Nvidia, but given the design skills they are showing on the CPU side, I expect that gap will narrow very quickly. Both Sony and Microsoft have chosen AMD for CPU and GPU in the PS5 and Xbox Series X, with support for full 4k ray-tracing. Given how long this generation of consoles will be on the market for (likely 5-10 years at least), it is a strong forward indicator of roadmap strength. tl;dr: I expect AMD will weather* the ARM storm better than Intel. * Originally a typo as "whether". Thanks for the correction!
- roel_v 6y ago
  *weather (sorry for nitpicking)
- jannes 6y ago
  I wouldn't interpret Sony's and Microsoft's decision for AMD graphics as anything other than Nvidia being dickheads. Keep in mind that Apple is also exclusively building Macs with AMD graphics cards. They don't even support Nvidia cards as eGPU anymore. The rumour is that Nvidia is not willing to do any customised designs and someone at Apple is very upset with Nvidia.
  - SXX 6y ago

rydre 6y ago

If Intel has another delay, they're dead. They'll be like Boeing (but their mistake won't directly kill people). It'll mean that all engineering culture is dead and the best minds have already left the company. Everyone who at Intel who predicted the wrong schedule and not a realistic one should be fired. They have destroyed a national champion in their short term greed.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Their best minds have definitely not left the company. Probably, just like with Boeing, they're just watching the clock, waiting for their retirement and for the quarterly bonus to come in. Let's not pretend Intel is dead, they just had a record quarter and my friends working there still got sizable bonuses.
- rydre 6y ago
  Companies have growth even after they're dead. When the growth slows, by then it's too late.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    According to your logic, AMD was also dead a few years ago.
    - rydre 6y ago
      AMD is the exception, not the norm. There are very few companies that can do that turn around. And AMD was lucky that Intel wasn't able to continue their progress. Had Intel still been ahead of AMD, AMD's revenue's wont be growing.
- jimbob45 6y ago
  What’s the best case scenario for them though? The mobile market is already permanently blown for them. Best case AMD chips are heavily defective next gen and Intel price/performance blows AMD out of the water with 7nm...which AMD has now already shipped. My pet theory is that the Trump funds to keep American microchip manufacturing afloat has made a Intel complacent. Maybe they’re just dunces though.

ckastner 6y ago

I'm a huge AMD fan but I fear that its current valuation already has an immense amount of success already priced in. They are doing absolutely spectacular work, but there's still much to do, and there are significant risks. They have been making progress on the GPU side, but as long as they don't provide a CUDA-like ecosystem and experience, I don't see them challenging NVIDIA soon in the accelerator market. I'm pretty confident that they will continue to outpace Intel on the CPU side, but with Amazon's Graviton2, and the recent TOP500-success of Fugaku -- pure ARM, no accelerators - there is still a tremendous amount of competition ahead.

WJW 6y ago
One of the most interesting aspects of investing is that the success of a company and its stock are only loosely correlated. It's entirely possible for an investor to do very poorly after investing in a company that grows a lot if the price they paid was too high (as you mention, AMD might be in such a situation right now). Conversely it's entirely possible to make excellent returns on the stock of a company that is not growing (or even shrinking) but pays out large dividends.
nabla9 6y ago
If you think P/E ratio of 25 to be reasonable after the growth spurt slows down, AMD's earnings must grow 10% per year next 20 years, or 20% per year next 10 years, or 30% per year next 8 years, or 50% per year next 5 years to get P/E 25 with current price. I don't think the price is unreasonably high but I don't think ROI will be very high if you buy AMD today.
- mrfredward 6y ago
  Looking at earnings growth as a steady process can be misleading when profit margins vary. Intel has a 26% net margin, and AMD is just over 8%, so if AMD gets Intel's pricing power their earnings could be 3X as high before any change in revenue. For a look at the pathological case, realize that a company that breaks even one year and makes a trivially small profit the next has experienced infinite earnings growth. That being said, I agree it looks like AMD stock is priced for something spectacular to happen, which makes me more excited about their chips than their stock.

tayo42 6y ago

Random comment about AMD, but damn their cpu line naming is really confusing. between zen, zen+, zen2, threadripper, ryzen 7,8,9. ryzen is actually 3 different architectures? then there's like ryzen 7 2000, 3000, now 4000. But for the laptop cpus the architectures are actually different. zen2 isn't used in the ryzen 3000 mobile cpus. Then you can look at best buy and see a laptop listed using a 3rd gen ryzen. Im not sure what that is actually referring to. I'm not sure how this compares to their epyc line either. I still need to read up on that...

retSava 6y ago
Yeah. Other "favorites", which include also unclear directions where products are heading, are eg Microsoft Xbox naming: Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox Series X (compare against PlayStation 1--5), and the Google chat/videocall product lines: Duo, Hangout, Meet, etc.
- ploxiln 6y ago
  you missed the "Xbox One X"
- doikor 6y ago
  To be honest Nintendo is just as bad at naming their consoles but for some reason get a lot less hate (outside of Wii U) Nintendo Entertainment System, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, Nintendo 64, GameCube, Wii, Wii U, Nintendo Switch, Nintendo Switch Lite or the handheld ones Game Boy, Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Light, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advanced, Game Boy Advanced SP, Game Boy Advanced Micro, Nintendo DS, Nintendo DS Lite, Nintendo DSi, Nintendo DSi XL
  - easton 6y ago
    Don't forget about the crown jewel of the Nintendo name collection, the "New" Nintendo 3DS / "New" Nintendo 3DS XL. Which is a whole heck of a lot worse than the Wii U, in my opinion.
xorfish 6y ago

mythz 6y ago

Interesting to compare Q2 2020 results between Intel & AMD: Intel Revenue: 19.7B, Net Income: 5.1B, Market Cap: 209.42B, P/E: 9.06 AMD Revenue: 1.93B, Net Income: 157M, Market Cap: 79.2B, P/E: 133.82 But by the sentiment of all media reports INTC is in sharp decline & AMD is killing it, yet even in their most recent results Intel revenue/earnings still dwarfs AMD's.

orbifold 6y ago
The stock price is in part determined by the discounted future Cashflow, the one of AMD is pointing upwards that of Intel seems neutral or declining. Intel had a long string of failures and bad acquisitions recently, which points to bad management. AMD has all the potential to attack Nvidia’s deep learning moat with in house talent. Maybe this is all wishful thinking though, but my AMD calls jumped 46% within a day.
- RavlaAlvar 6y ago
  I am not seeing AMD putting any serious contenders for CUDA though.
  - xondono 6y ago
    They don’t really need to. Nvidia will have to validate and launch all of it’s PCIe4 on Epyc/Ryzen processors, so it’s not like AMD won’t benefit from the Deep Learning hype
  - zucker42 6y ago
    Isn't HIP+ROCm a serious "competitor" to CUDA? You can convert your code automatic from CUDA to HIP. At least that's why the advertising says; I haven't used it myself. Plus, PyTorch and Tensorflow have AMD support, I thought.
    - TomVDB 6y ago
      It may convert your own code, but it can’t convert the CUDA libraries. It also doesn’t help that AMD has stopped supporting ROCm for the current consumer GPUs.

galeos 6y ago

While most of the focus here is understandably on the CPU side, there seems to be some interesting shifts taking place on the GPU side. AMD currently has a process lead over Nvidia (and this is rumoured to be set to continue for a little while longer - apparently the first consumer Ampere chips are being fabbed on Samsung's inferior 8nm process due to lack of capacity at TSMC for the next few months) Nvidia has clearly had an architecture advantage, although RDNA2 may close this gap, depending on how Ampere performs. While Nvidia has had a much stronger showing in the GPGPU space, with CUDA helping it be the clear current winner, this also appears to have driven architecture decisions at Nvidia with the focus on tensor cores. In gaming, Nvidia has put a lot of work into utilising these tensor cores for Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS). The idea being that you render at a lower resolution and then use deep learning to upscale in real-time to higher resolutions. DLSS 2.0 made some leaps in quality and DLSS 3.0 is on the horizon. It will be interesting to see: a) How well they can get this working b) Is AMD working on its own version of this? c) If so, how well will the RDNA architecture be suited to this approach? Will be interesting to watch how this plays out!

theevilsharpie 6y ago
> apparently the first consumer Ampere chips are being fabbed on Samsung's inferior 8nm process due to lack of capacity at TSMC for the next few months) I just wanted to clarify to anyone else that was initially confused, that the parent is referring to Nvidia's next-generation GPU architecture, not the ARM CPU developer.
pjmlp 6y ago
Lets put it this way, Octane Render has dropped Vulkan support and replaced it with CUDA based Optix 7. https://home.otoy.com/render/octane-render/ https://home.otoy.com/render/octane-render/ So how is AMD going to get relevant in the Hollywood and TV studios that are the big buyers of OctaneRender?
- Arelius 6y ago
  I wasn't aware that OctaneRender was actually a large portion of the Hollywood and TV studio segment.

sara889 6y ago

<a href="https://www.jioprize.com/">Jio https://www.jioprize.com/">Jio lottery</a> Jio Lottery Official Website is only Jioprize.com Jio Lottery Head Office Jio Lottery Official Jio Lottery Head office Jio Helpline Jio Lottery 2020 Jio Lottery Check online Jio mega draw Jio Lucky winner Jio Jackpot Jio Winner list KBC Jio winner Jio KBC mega Draw Jio Lottery

sara889 6y ago

<a href="https://www.jioprize.com/">Jio https://www.jioprize.com/">Jio lottery Offical</a>

sara889 6y ago

https://www.jioprize.com https://www.jioprize.com

sara889 6y ago

https://www.jioprize.com/ https://www.jioprize.com/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rubber_duck 6y ago

A couple of years ago I remember seeing a video where a Google engineer said they were working on CUDA to AMD compilers and a push to standardize CUDA - what happened to that ? Or am I misremembering something ?

shaklee3 6y ago
This? https://research.google/pubs/pub45226/ https://research.google/pubs/pub45226/ AMD already has a cuda to rocm transpiler, but their libraries are so lacking that many things cannot be converted.

Teknoman117 6y ago

Man I really wish I bought AMD stock when Ryzen was announced.

x3haloed 6y ago

The real question facing us now, I believe, is how is AMD going to compete with ARM-based silicon? I believe that ARM is on the path to dominance due to performance per watt. Does AMD have a path to continue to win at that game?

bob1029 6y ago
I think it ultimately boils down to who has the best CPU architecture if you are talking exclusively about performance-per-watt. Right now, it feels like AMD/ARM are going to be very competitive with each other in the mobile segment, but only on paper. They mostly stay in their own separate market arenas. Apple may disrupt this soon. The bigger picture is that x86 is a platform that most of the business world runs on top of right now. ARM is certainly pushing into that arena, but AMD is keeping the x86 offering very attractive. I am of the camp that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with x86, and especially not its recent implementations. It is an old & dirty ISA, but it gets the job done. Every scenario on earth has been thrown at it and it has adapted to suit. Decades of iteration and testing with billions of participants. All AMD needs to do is continue cranking out 100W+ TDP parts that tear through workloads. The current style of ARM devices cannot keep up with power budgets like that. I believe they would have to completely redesign their architecture if they wanted to move from 5-15W up to something like the toasty 225W TDP of the 7742.

microcolonel 6y ago

Side note: is there some reason why the columns in the tables are ordered most-recent, least-recent, second-most-recent?

ksec 6y ago
It is not least-recent, it is YoY. Current Quarter, YoY Quarter, last Quarter.