19 ms·

U.S. citizens no longer have access to most of the world

181 points by colinprince 6y ago

product50 6y ago
This is just a matter of time. Almost all countries actually want US citizens to come there, for tourism purposes, due to their high spend potential (relative to other countries).
- coffeemaniac 6y ago
  This might not change in the way it sounds like you're expecting..
- capableweb 6y ago
  > Almost all countries actually want US citizens to come there, for tourism purposes Please do provide evidence of this. Most people I've seen being surveyed in Europe around tourists don't care where they come from, as long as they spend money and don't ruin stuff. Americans, along with the British and the French, seems to be the groups that most people complained about when it comes to groups vacationing in Europe. Edit: lot's of people replying, which is great. But none of providing evidence, which is explicitly requested in this comment. Would love to see some hard facts rather than people's anecdotes.
  - untog 6y ago
    They don’t care where the tourists come from but they still want a healthy number of tourists to keep the industry going. Americans form a sizeable block of that. And yes, plenty of people complain about American tourists. Frankly with good reason. But it all comes down to money.
  - CapmCrackaWaka 6y ago
    Obviously most business owners just want tourists to come and spend money, regardless of where they come from. I believe what the above commenter is saying is that American tourists tend to spend the most, either because America has the most people that can afford to travel, or because they spend the most per person. I don't find that unreasonable.
  - likpok 6y ago
    > Please do provide evidence of this. Most people I've seen being surveyed in Europe around tourists don't care where they come from, as long as they spend money and don't ruin stuff. There are a lot of Americans, they have a lot of money to spend and they like to spend money on travel. Isn't this sort of a self-refuting point? I suspect people complain about the most common tourists, since they'll be the most visible.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    > Most people I've seen being surveyed in Europe around tourists don't care where they come from, as long as they spend money and don't ruin stuff. Right, but American tourists make up a significant portion of tourist spending. Ergo, if you want tourist money, you want American tourists. Not necessarily more or less than other types of tourists, but that's not important.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - VBprogrammer 6y ago
      Americans are well known for tipping astronomical amounts in relation to most European countries. No doubt due to their crazy social construct of paying for a service and paying the person providing a service separately, which is pretty foreign in most European nations.
  - centimeter 6y ago
    > seems to be the groups that most people complained about Absolutely not - the group I hear the most complaints about are chinese tourists. Americans mostly have a reputation for being overly friendly to strangers here.
  - ysavir 6y ago
    > Americans, along with the British and the French, seems to be the groups that most people complained about when it comes to groups vacationing in Europe. Citizens might complain due to the personal habits and practices of individual tourists, but bureaucrats that oversee the tourism industry (in relation to border entry) will have views based on which tourist qualities most positively impact the industry's income.
  - solidasparagus 6y ago
    That might be a Europe specific thing. A lot of the parts of the world I've seen like US tourists because they have a culture of tipping generously, which is not always the case for Europeans.
  - jariel 6y ago
    " Most people I've seen being surveyed in Europe around tourists don't care where they come from," When 50% of your tourists are absent, because Americans are not allowed in, and you're out of business ... 'you care where they come from'. This is bad for everyone and it's not just tourism.
  - RestlessMind 6y ago
    > Please do provide evidence of this. Here you go: https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-tourist-hot-spots-suffer-as-u-s-big-spenders-are-told-to-stay-away-11594132862 https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-tourist-hot-spots-suffe... I submitted this article to HN a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763588
  - Bayart 6y ago
    >Americans, along with the British and the French, seems to be the groups that most people complained about when it comes to groups vacationing in Europe. What's « Europe » ? Different places have very different tourist demographics. The perception of the British in my part of France (we tend to get wealthy, French-speaking types) is very different to that in Amsterdam or Mallorca for example (where the « lads » got touring). And I can guaranty you that the most universally hated place of origin for tourists across Europe as a whole is China. Americans are just known for smiling like idiots.
  - product50 6y ago
    If you are ignorant it is not on everyone else to bring you upto speed. There have been several articles on this already. Here is something you should try. Next time, goto a tourist hotspot such as Iceland or Venice and ask the locals there - which country citizens do they like the most. And they will tell you straight.
- iammru 6y ago
  Agree. Those don't think so haven't travelled to luxury destinations overseas. It's majority Americans and Chinese. There are whole industries depending on those two cohorts.
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    What do you consider luxury destinations? It’s a highly subjective description, so if you can elaborate it’ll aide understanding.
- lazaroclapp 6y ago
  If this were the only criteria, then Chinese passports would be accepted visa-free in a lot more countries than they currently are. Not saying that travel bans will remain in place once the current pandemic ends (which might take a while still), but "high spend potential" is not the sole determinant for this kind of polices when outside of a worldwide health emergency.
  - duxup 6y ago
    At least a while ago I thought the flow of Chinese tourists was largely controlled by China... not outside restrictions. As I understood it China was fairly restrictive on who / how many of their own people could leave China for where as a tourist. Is that not the case anymore.
    - lazaroclapp 6y ago
      Independently of that, an exceedingly large number of countries require visas from Chinese citizens. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chinese_citizens#/media/File%3AVisa_requirements_for_Chinese_citizens_holding_ordinary_and_ordinary_passports_for_public_affairs_and_Two-way_and_Exit_%26_Entry_permits.png https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chines... This squares ok with geopolitical reasons, but not economic ones (although they certainly influence that map now and in the future).
      - duxup 6y ago
        I wonder if it is a tit for tat type thing for other folks going to China? It's hard to know. It's extra hard to know on outgoing as what I heard a while ago from someone from China (hard to know if they were really authoritative) was even if you qualified to go someplace else from inside China... your odds of approval was somewhat random / would ebb and flow.
        Jommi 6y ago
        Its definitely partially a tit for tat bargaining thing. Just like the EU was recently looking at doing an ESTA-lite for US
- DrScientist 6y ago
  Here in the UK, tourists from China are or are becoming more important than American tourist now.
- lm28469 6y ago
  The cost of restarting a full blow epidemic in Europe is much higher than the lost tourism money. I doubt we'll see americans anywhere before they get their situation under control.
purple_ferret 6y ago
Can't even get into some neighboring states! So much for the 'union'
- slg 6y ago
  Do you have a source on that? As far as I'm aware that is illegal. States can require quarantine periods for visitors, but I don't think they can outright ban travel from US citizens/nationals.
  - wl 6y ago
    A 14-day quarantine upon return effectively bans many people from traveling.
    - happytoexplain 6y ago
      A reasonable argument, but unfortunately using exaggerated words as a rhetorical tactic. It's unreasonable to simply say "you can't get in" or "you're effectively banned from traveling". What you and the grandparent mean is that a two week quarantine makes it impractical or effectively impossible for some people to travel between the states in question. (Assuming this is what the grandparent was referring to, which we still don't know).
  - votepaunchy 6y ago
    I'm not sure that is quite right either. It's not just visitors, anyone traveling to or from the marked region must quarantine. A local citizen returning home must be treated the same as a visitor traveling from another state.
    - slg 6y ago
      I was speaking specifically about the most stringent rules they can have for visitors, but you are exactly right that the rules apply to everyone and not exclusively visitors.
  - kube-system 6y ago
capableweb 6y ago
> Americans used to have one of the most prized passports in the world, considered a golden ticket to wealth, travel and opportunity. What? This is not at all true. Maybe that's a belief that many Americans have, but the US passport is not one of the most prized passports in the world, there are about 30 other country's passport I'd rather have before having a US one, if you're talking about getting access to other countries with/without requiring a visa. A quick check of any of the "passport indexes" (Henley Passport Index, Arton Capital Passport Index) will show you that the US passport is fairly low ranked compared to the top ones. Hard to take the rest of the article serious when it starts out with a serious flaw in the reasoning.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Used to. Like 30-40 years ago.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    No, the article is mentioning that the "downfall" is because of "the onset of COVID-19", mentioned later in the article. Although 30-40 years ago is probably closer to when the US passport lost its power in reality.
    - irrational 6y ago
      I would put it at pre-Korean war. So, about 70 years ago.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- learc83 6y ago
  >but the US passport is not one of the most prized passports in the world Henley Passport Index ranks the US at #7, by a reasonable definition of "one of the most prized", I'd say #7 counts. #1 Japan only has access to 6 more countries visa free than the US does. Edit: The US was ranked #1 in 2006, went down to #7 by 2010, and then was back up to #1 in 2014. We're talking swinging between 185 countries with visa free access and 191 countries here, so the top 10 positions change frequently.
harimau777 6y ago
Does anyone know: How difficult is it for a Sri Lankan citizen to get a temporary visa to come to a developed nation (e.g. for vacation or a business trip)? What is the reasoning for this situation? Other than edge cases where a nation is a security risk or where illegal immigration is a concern what does democratic a country gain by keeping visitors out?
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  >How difficult is it for a Sri Lankan citizen to get a temporary passport to come to a developed nation (e.g. for vacation or a business trip)? It's called a visa, not a temporary passport. I have friends with weak passports who were Canadian Permanent Residents apply for a visitor visa for the US. They applied 3 months before their intended date of visit (for a conference). The visa was approved 1.5 years after the conference had ended. Another friend in a similar situation had his visa application in process for ~2 years, at which point Trump enacted his travel ban for certain nationalities, including his, so his application was denied after 2 years. In some countries, even booking an interview appointment with the consulate to apply for a visa can take months and maybe more than a year. Most people don't bother with international travel, because it is far too arduous and expensive to get a visa.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- el-salvador 6y ago
  I can speak from my experience as a Salvadoran/Latin American where visa restrictions affect Northbound travel. * Take El Salvador and Mexico: They are two countries that are close to each other, they also share language and have historical events in common. It is just a 1.5 hour flight from San Salvador to Mexico City, or a 7 hour drive from border to border. If someone from El Salvador wants to travel to Mexico for business purposes or tourism, and they would be required to have a US/EU visa or do the following: Estimated time required | Task 30 min | Make an appointment (next available slot is in three months) ??? | Have a monthly income higher than 100 days of the mexican capital. This excludes most of Salvadorans, I'd have to check the Labour Ministry for the statistics though. 1 hour | Research mexican minimum wages, convert currency and evaluate if you can apply. 1/2 day | Proof of income signed by the manager /HR / accountant of the company 1/2 day | Notarized copy of the Tax ID and National ID of the signee of the proof of income letter 1/2 day | Notarized copu of the Tax ID and terms of incorporation of the company 2-4 hrs | Account statements of the past six months in official bank letterheard, in a letter format, addressed to the Mexican embassy. 2 hrs | Photo taken according to the specifications in a photo studio. 4 hrs | Hotel / airplane reservations 3 months | Wait for appointment 1hr-6hr | Drive to the Embassy in the capital. 1/2 day | Day of appointment. 5 min | Interview/Aprpoval/Rejection 1 day | Wait for passport to be handed in Visa price: It's actually free :) Other circumstances can cause more paperwork: If company or family members is paying your expenses, or if a Mexican company is inviting you. El Salvador is around haldway on the Passport rankings, and this is not the most complicated case. There is a Mexican Embassy in El Salvador, no translations or apostilles are needed for documentation, and the country is small enough to allow for same day travel to the embassy. Somtimes it requires travelling to another country for the visa interview, mailing your passport and having no passport in the meantime, or to have biometrics taken in a third country (!) * Some countries don't ask for a local visa if the traveller has a US/EU visa. Like Salvadorans don't need a Mexican Visa if they have a US/EU visa. Or Nicaraguans to Costa Rica. Or Ecuadorians to El Salvador.
pdog 6y ago
Most Americans don't even realize they're trapped in their own country now. You can't leave even if you want to.
- untog 6y ago
  A lot of Americans don’t leave the country anyway, only 42% have passports. I actually don’t think that’s as damning as many make it out to be: foreign vacations are expensive and the US provides an incredible variety of vacation spots at a much more affordable price. It’s just a shame there isn’t as much exposure to different cultures on those trips.
- bengoodger 6y ago
  Most Americans don't travel abroad. Those that are accustomed to frequent travel for business or leisure are acutely aware of the current situation because it's already blown up their year.
- beervirus 6y ago
  Most Americans wouldn't get on an airplane right now if you paid them. If I go on a vacation this year, it'll be in a car with my family, not in a cramped aluminum tube sharing infected air with hundreds of strangers.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Most Americans just don't tremendously care. I wouldn't travel internationally right now even if I could; look at what happened to the British tourists in Spain, who got a surprise 2 week quarantine order dropped on them.
- duxup 6y ago
  Mostly because they're not trapped in their on country. US passports grant access most places still... maybe not as many as before, but much of the world is / will still be open to them.
- hoorayimhelping 6y ago
  What does it even mean to be "trapped" in America? It's the third largest country in the world by landmass. It takes three to five days to drive across the country. How can you be trapped in a country that is so large, a single human can barely comprehend it?
nimbius 6y ago
This might sound a tad grandiose but its worth stating for contrast. fifty years ago if you were a US citizen in a foreign nation you were nigh untouchable. Even the countries of most ill repute wouldnt dare to upset you. Arresting, imprisoning, or torturing an american meant incurring the wrath of a nation that could bankrupt your entire country by the end of the day, lock your ships in their ports, and ground your airplanes indefinitely. Push your luck hard enough and they could use that same blue-water naval power to raze your parliament, bomb your powerplants, and wipe out your airfields all before the sitting head of US state finished his coffee. That same power could send medical ships to your disasters as well as determine your elections, so Americans were always "welcome" on some level. now in 2020 its a different tune. with The last 3 ground wars either lost or ended in stalemate, and the credit defaults during the debt ceiling brinksmanship of the Obama presidency, the US doesnt command the same Kissinger grade soft power it used to. Its failing health system and derelect leadership has promulgated a nation not of its greatest achievements, but rather a patchwork of cities of pestice each clawing for whatever meager federal scraps they can procure from an increasingly callous and indifferent leadership.
- return1 6y ago
  The eastern block existed. If anything you were more likely to find refuge from america somewhere than today. Plenty of places where americans were not safe.
  - smegger001 6y ago
    only Superpowers will give refuge from the US. the US forced the president of Boliva's plane to land because they suspected Snowden was on board. Can you imagine any other country forcing air-force one to land? We would be at war within the day over such a affront had it been done to us. Only players like Russia China and the US can get away with this kind of behavior.
    - return1 6y ago
      Equador did A superpower creates a block of aligned countries
eric4smith 6y ago
As an American living (and trapped) abroad - I get looks of sympathy and shakes or the head when I mention I’m from the states. One thing I have noticed is that countries want tourism but are now super careful about who they let in. Recently I wanted to travel elsewhere, but was unable to enter most of the world with my American passport. So I got another extension instead for 2 more months. Another thing I’ve noticed is that some countries now actually are beginning to realize that their economies are down, but can survive without the hordes of dirty foreigners coming to their country. So there is just no rush to reopen especially with the medium sized and fast growing countries. Nationalism to some small degree is definitely in play in a lot of governments these days. And with the resurgence of the virus, lockdowns are being expended and reestablished in many places. The reopenings planned for August 1 are definitely not going to happen. No passport is any good right now - except in its own region.
- RestlessMind 6y ago
  > Another thing I’ve noticed is that some countries now actually are beginning to realize that their economies are down, but can survive without the hordes of dirty foreigners coming to their country. Are you sure? Travel and tourism account for 13% of the economy in Italy and 9% in France and Europe as a whole [1]. So maybe the pain will be tolerated only for a short while before these economies are compelled to open doors to Americans (and Chinese too). [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-tourist-hot-spots-suffer-as-u-s-big-spenders-are-told-to-stay-away-11594132862 https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-tourist-hot-spots-suffe...
  - Bayart 6y ago
    France has a lot of domestic tourism, and to an extent European tourism. The economy has been rebounding faster than anticipated so I'm not sure the government would be keen on pulling its pants down to bring in tourists when it's already got more than enough bad press.
  - lm28469 6y ago
    The only people who will suffer are the people who destroyed their local industries in favor of tourism related jobs. It's a big issue in some parts of Greece for example, some regions lost most of their regular jobs to tourism and now that shit hits the fan it's a big problem.
dominotw 6y ago
haha damn. I just became a US citizen few months ago after waiting a lifetime in the queue :/ .
- 120bits 6y ago
  Congrats! I'm still waiting for it. No idea when I will get my EAD. Been almost 9 years in US.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    Thank you. I got mine after ~18 yrs :)
phyzome 6y ago
Full headline is better: "U.S. citizens no longer have access to most of the world — the global South never had it"
intsunny 6y ago
As an American living overseas I've come to this realization: If Americans cannot respect the rules of their homeland in the language they understand, how can they be expected to elsewhere? Outside the USA, the opinion of the USA is not great [0] right now and it seems unlikely these bans will go away. It sucks for those of us who are doing our parts to flatten the curve and prevent overwhelming the medical systems. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/world/europe/Ireland-americans-break-quarantine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/world/europe/Ireland-amer...
- pb7 6y ago
  I think it's a huge mistake to assume that the people that, say, refuse to believe in science and/or effectiveness of wearing masks are the same people that are traveling internationally. Only ~45% of Americans even have a passport and most will never leave their home state. I'm going to go out on a limb and say those who think the US is the greatest place on Earth and have no desire to step foot outside of it to test that theory don't have the best intentions.
  - onepointsixC 6y ago
    You're probably right. More so it seems to me that Americans are easy punching bags to ignore local domestic stupidity. From everything I've seen the 5G causes corona virus folks are largely not from America, but in online conversation they seem to be swept under the rug.
- jb775 6y ago
  > the opinion of the USA is not great right now The "opinion" of the USA has never been great, ever since our country was founded. And yet we're the only ones everyone talks about. And our culture and policies and businesses and finances permeate the world. And people are literally dying trying to get in. And then we need to save the world from one of their crazy dictators and the cycle restarts all over again.
  - refurb 6y ago
    I've noticed this too. Currently visiting Canada and I'd say 70% of the national news coverage is the US which I found really weird. Is there not enough going on in Canada or other parts of the world? And the best part is the Canadian PM is embroiled in a big scandal, but it's getting less coverage than Covid in the US. Oh and this article is a fantastic example of that. Why would the CBC decide this is a topic worth writing about?
kgwgk 6y ago
U.S. citizens != U.S. residents
duxup 6y ago
>considered a golden ticket to wealth The limits on travel are interesting but overstatements like that really trickle into absurdity. The US's role in the world is changing, but to demonstrate it folks seem to adopt a lot of wonky ideas of what it was.
jkingsbery 6y ago
I don't understand the problem... There's a pandemic, so people in areas that are more affected shouldn't be traveling as much. The US has been heavily affected, therefore Americans shouldn't be traveling internationally without a really good reason. Americans are not experiencing what Sri Lankans experience, because Americans can't go anywhere, and mostly shouldn't be going anywhere; Sri Lankans (under normal circumstances) experience real pain because of visa issues. The article doesn't bother to interview any Americans that these travel restrictions have caused actual problems for. That would have been more helpful than interviewing a European academic. An anecdote (or some actual data) would helpful describe the real problem instead of just saying, "Take that, America!"
- vmchale 6y ago
  > There's a pandemic, so people in areas that are more affected shouldn't be traveling as much. Indeed, but people from places like Thailand are allowed to travel because their nation has the pandemic under control! Why should the US be so behind Taiwan, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, and so on? It's not for lack of money. > Americans are not experiencing what Sri Lankans experience, because Americans can't go anywhere, and mostly shouldn't be going anywhere; Sri Lankans (under normal circumstances) experience real pain because of visa issues. I agree. We are still highly privileged.
- jjcon 6y ago
  Yeah I don’t really get the influx of nationalistic clickbait on HN lately... it’s super bizarre
  - fermienrico 6y ago
    The world feels like its falling apart with nationalism. Journalists should be more uniting and bring the world together, instead they're chasing what the readers want - a spice mix that gets people high on nationlism. Don't worry, we've got a whole load of it right here in US as well. Remember the pale blue dot? That pale blue dot is festered with a disease, and that's not just COVID-19.
tmountain 6y ago
What is a theoretical maximum time frame for Europe to ban visitors from the US? It seems like the allure of tourists dollars will likely trump public health concerns at some point. Does anyone see this lasting for another year or longer?
ebg13 6y ago
If it makes anyone feel better, most U.S. citizens have _never_ had access to any part of the world because they've been too busy barely making ends meet working dead-end jobs with no healthcare or vacations. So, in the grand scheme of things, is it really so terrible if the middle echelons feel a little squeeze as well as a result of political malfeasance from the people that they (collectively, not individually) put into power?
- duxup 6y ago
  Yeah this probably seems like a bigger deal to folks who cross international borders (or multiple) regularly. Most Americans do not do that, I wonder what % ever cross an international border... ?
- josefresco 6y ago
  I hear what you're saying but American's travel more, and spend more on travel than almost any other nation (I just looked it up, URL is in another comment)
  - ebg13 6y ago
    America is a very large nation, and it has more people in it than almost any other. It's also, as an aggregate average, wealthier than almost any other nation. And at the same time, most people inside it are not individually wealthy enough to thrive inside it to the extent where they could fly overseas for a while. Per https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-of-americans-who-never-traveled-beyond-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-o... As many as 13 percent say they have never flown in an airplane. Forty percent of those questioned said they’ve never left the country. Over half of respondents have never owned a passport. And that's even with lumping Mexico/Canada into the same group as other continents when they are very dissimilar in terms of travel feasibility. Mexico and Canada get 55% of all international travel from the US. Is that better than an impoverished nation? Absolutely. Does one typically classify the US as an impoverished nation? Not typically.
    - 6y ago
jb775 6y ago
There's a worldwide pandemic going on, no one currently has access to "most of the world". Not sure the point of spinning this as a U.S. citizen specific issue...I guess Canadian journalists just can't resist
sakopov 6y ago
This clickbait of a title is missing "amidst Coronavirus pandemic"
g123g 6y ago
There are travel restrictions all over the world currently due to the COVID-19 situation. People are not allowed to travel from one city to another in the same country without proper documents. Lots of countries are not even allowing international flights at this point. To tie this in just with US passport is simply politically motivated.
- fermienrico 6y ago
  It is the mix of current US sentiments, its leadership combined with the total chaos going on in this country - journalists are doing a disservice by perpetuating and provoking tribal instincts of nationalism. They're hyping up the downfall of the United States and hoping to get more clicks. Folks who are non-Americans are getting a spicy juicy dose of some anti-US sentiments which is being drank in large quantities overseas. What a sad time.
derg 6y ago
It's so weird for me personally because while I have absolutely zero interest in boarding a plane to go anywhere at the moment, there is a weird small feeling of being trapped so to speak. like losing the option (that i wasn't going to use anyway) to pick up and go anywhere i could theoretically want to. not complaining, just observing a feeling because there are more pressing things for this country and myself at the moment and as the article points out we're now experiencing what it's like for a fairly sizable portion of the world. I guess we are in the middle of reaping what we've sown.
627467 6y ago
This type of news may go stale very quickly... Yes pandemic has instantly created myriad set of obstacles to travel and migration around the world. Maybe some of these restrictions will take enough time to be lifted... But, does anyone believe that most of the world will suddenly reject American money (for business and leisure) for long term? I mean, just look at the "in-fight" happening in Europe where southern countries want northern tourists despite pandemic status...
m1117 6y ago
IMO it's temporary. (IMHO!) The population of America is very large, and it's hard for the government to control all the idiots(a good percentage of the population?) who live in it, and also it's hard for the government to be organized themselves because they're busy fighting for power and blaming each other. Great country, but COVID exposed some of the weaknesses.
jeffbee 6y ago
And if your passport expired during COVID-19, like mine did, you can apparently forget about getting a new one for at least a year.
- pb7 6y ago
  At first glance, it would appear so but if you check the FAQ where they list the number of current passport renewal applications and how many they get through per week, right now there's about a ~8 week wait. Long, but not a year.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    I guess I formed this opinion since I have to apply in person for my childrens' renewals.
    - pb7 6y ago
      Ah yeah, good luck with that. They want nothing to do with in-person renewals right now.
- ORioN63 6y ago
  I got mine to travel to the US in the end of March. Yeah...
yalogin 6y ago
I don't think losing access to most of the world is a permanent thing. It's purely because of the virus and nothing else which is self inflicted. The foreign policy and all around lack of empathy shown by the WH will all pass. As a country though, the US has become the beacon of anti-science nut jobs starting from the president. For the leading tech country in the world, it's jarring how anti-science it is. The whole world seems to have gotten a grip on the situation except the US, which is still consumed with frivolous things like throwing the first pitch at the Yankees game , just because he is jealous of Dr.Fauci.
jorblumesea 6y ago
The disconnect between how the world sees the US and how the US sees itself is astounding.
Trias11 6y ago
The bigger problem for US citizens is that US Passport is essentially an IRS trap, no matter where you decide to live.
- AlchemistCamp 6y ago
  How does having a passport affect a US citizen's taxes?
maerF0x0 6y ago
US Citizenship may have once been a prestigous thing, but now it's met with a sort of elitism that suggests Americans are inferior (stupid, boorish, backward etc). In my experience living here the differences between Canada & the US are grossly exaggerated and many countries respect Canada much more. I think the well calibrated view would give America more credit for the role it's played/playing globally.
irrational 6y ago
On the one hand I think "Oh good, all these people who are convinced of the superiority of the USSA will start to get a clue." But, then I remember that these are also the same people who are extremely unlikely to have ever left their hometown, much less traveled to a different country. So this won't phase them at all.
karlakush 6y ago
From Maine to Alaska to Pago Pago to the Virgin Islands, there's a lot of world you can visit without ever leaving the United States.
JSavageOne 6y ago
I'm currently trapped in the U.S. waiting for my passport renewal, which currently takes 3-4 months. Since you have to mail in your existing passport to get your passport renewed, I literally have no passport until the new one arrives in the mail. People who applied for their new passports in March are only now getting their new passports in the mail today. I know someone will say "oh you shouldn't be traveling anyways". I don't live in the U.S. anymore, I live abroad. I only returned to the U.S. because I had hit my visa limit abroad, and thought I could get my passport renewed within a reasonable time frame in the U.S. (max 1 month). How stupid of me to assume my country took passport processing seriously and with any sense of urgency.
4cao 6y ago
In the middle of a pandemic, similar restrictions apply to everyone. These restrictions are generally not based on citizenship but residency. Everybody is encouraged to stay where they are (or were, when it broke out). US citizens residing abroad are not being treated any worse than they were: it's just more difficult to move from country A to country B anywhere in the world for anybody right now (except within the EU/EEA, which largely reopened). US citizens are not being singled out, and while they're also not being given preferential treatment, it is hard to imagine they would have been had this happened anytime in the past, say 50 years ago. The situation is just largely unprecedented. It is inaccurate to compare the situation of travellers now and in the past, when travel was much less common and less affordable, and thus the population flows were much smaller: this is the first pandemic of the global era, so of course the restrictions are going to impact more people and be more noticeable than any similar measures implemented in the past. Arguably it has to be so to control the spread of the virus. On a general note, the US passport was never a great choice for people who mostly live outside the US due to the cumbersome tax regulations one has to endure as part of being a US citizen but, it can be argued, it could remain so precisely due to the power the US enjoys to compel other countries to enforce its laws, as demonstrated with e.g. FATCA [1]. Thus there has always been a steady outflow of millionaires looking for greener pastures. [2] Separately, the US passport was also never highly-ranked for people who just wanted to travel around as visitors: in that category it is easily outclassed by e.g. Singapore or Japan, which let you visit China or (in the latter case) India visa-free. [3] Still, that was never the reason for it being so prized: the US has likely the best career opportunities in the world, so people want the citizenship and the passport that comes with it to get inside the country, not to stay away from it and go elsewhere. If they do travel abroad however, the US passport still generally affords unrivalled consular protection in most of the world. And nothing really changes in this department just because of the pandemic. I'm really surprised to see an article like this from what purportedly aspires to be the Canadian BBC. It's really quite poorly-researched for such an alarmist tone. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance... 2. https://www.cbsnews.com/media/5-citizens-who-left-the-us-to-avoid-paying-tax/ https://www.cbsnews.com/media/5-citizens-who-left-the-us-to-... 3. https://www.henleypassportindex.com/ https://www.henleypassportindex.com/
Jommi 6y ago
The whole backwards part about this is that the Schengen travel restrictions are still in place. So somebody who has visited a Schengen country even with under 10 covid cases a week (like most Nordics) can't travel directly to the US. They have to fly to a country like Mexico or Canada (which are both still battling covid) and then enter the border after 14 days. Oh BUT if you're a US citizen or with a resident visa, you can enter from wherever. Oh AND if you're a student with in person classes, you can enter. But me with a house and a job and a visa, can't enter. How the fuck can this happen?

181 points by colinprince 6y ago

This is just a matter of time. Almost all countries actually want US citizens to come there, for tourism purposes, due to their high spend potential (relative to other countries).

coffeemaniac 6y ago
This might not change in the way it sounds like you're expecting..
capableweb 6y ago
> Almost all countries actually want US citizens to come there, for tourism purposes Please do provide evidence of this. Most people I've seen being surveyed in Europe around tourists don't care where they come from, as long as they spend money and don't ruin stuff. Americans, along with the British and the French, seems to be the groups that most people complained about when it comes to groups vacationing in Europe. Edit: lot's of people replying, which is great. But none of providing evidence, which is explicitly requested in this comment. Would love to see some hard facts rather than people's anecdotes.
- untog 6y ago
  They don’t care where the tourists come from but they still want a healthy number of tourists to keep the industry going. Americans form a sizeable block of that. And yes, plenty of people complain about American tourists. Frankly with good reason. But it all comes down to money.
- CapmCrackaWaka 6y ago
  Obviously most business owners just want tourists to come and spend money, regardless of where they come from. I believe what the above commenter is saying is that American tourists tend to spend the most, either because America has the most people that can afford to travel, or because they spend the most per person. I don't find that unreasonable.
- likpok 6y ago
  > Please do provide evidence of this. Most people I've seen being surveyed in Europe around tourists don't care where they come from, as long as they spend money and don't ruin stuff. There are a lot of Americans, they have a lot of money to spend and they like to spend money on travel. Isn't this sort of a self-refuting point? I suspect people complain about the most common tourists, since they'll be the most visible.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  > Most people I've seen being surveyed in Europe around tourists don't care where they come from, as long as they spend money and don't ruin stuff. Right, but American tourists make up a significant portion of tourist spending. Ergo, if you want tourist money, you want American tourists. Not necessarily more or less than other types of tourists, but that's not important.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    Americans are well known for tipping astronomical amounts in relation to most European countries. No doubt due to their crazy social construct of paying for a service and paying the person providing a service separately, which is pretty foreign in most European nations.
- centimeter 6y ago
  > seems to be the groups that most people complained about Absolutely not - the group I hear the most complaints about are chinese tourists. Americans mostly have a reputation for being overly friendly to strangers here.
- ysavir 6y ago
  > Americans, along with the British and the French, seems to be the groups that most people complained about when it comes to groups vacationing in Europe. Citizens might complain due to the personal habits and practices of individual tourists, but bureaucrats that oversee the tourism industry (in relation to border entry) will have views based on which tourist qualities most positively impact the industry's income.
- solidasparagus 6y ago
  That might be a Europe specific thing. A lot of the parts of the world I've seen like US tourists because they have a culture of tipping generously, which is not always the case for Europeans.
- jariel 6y ago
  " Most people I've seen being surveyed in Europe around tourists don't care where they come from," When 50% of your tourists are absent, because Americans are not allowed in, and you're out of business ... 'you care where they come from'. This is bad for everyone and it's not just tourism.
- RestlessMind 6y ago
  > Please do provide evidence of this. Here you go: https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-tourist-hot-spots-suffer-as-u-s-big-spenders-are-told-to-stay-away-11594132862 https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-tourist-hot-spots-suffe... I submitted this article to HN a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763588
- Bayart 6y ago
  >Americans, along with the British and the French, seems to be the groups that most people complained about when it comes to groups vacationing in Europe. What's « Europe » ? Different places have very different tourist demographics. The perception of the British in my part of France (we tend to get wealthy, French-speaking types) is very different to that in Amsterdam or Mallorca for example (where the « lads » got touring). And I can guaranty you that the most universally hated place of origin for tourists across Europe as a whole is China. Americans are just known for smiling like idiots.
- product50 6y ago
  If you are ignorant it is not on everyone else to bring you upto speed. There have been several articles on this already. Here is something you should try. Next time, goto a tourist hotspot such as Iceland or Venice and ask the locals there - which country citizens do they like the most. And they will tell you straight.
iammru 6y ago
Agree. Those don't think so haven't travelled to luxury destinations overseas. It's majority Americans and Chinese. There are whole industries depending on those two cohorts.
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  What do you consider luxury destinations? It’s a highly subjective description, so if you can elaborate it’ll aide understanding.
lazaroclapp 6y ago
If this were the only criteria, then Chinese passports would be accepted visa-free in a lot more countries than they currently are. Not saying that travel bans will remain in place once the current pandemic ends (which might take a while still), but "high spend potential" is not the sole determinant for this kind of polices when outside of a worldwide health emergency.
- duxup 6y ago
  At least a while ago I thought the flow of Chinese tourists was largely controlled by China... not outside restrictions. As I understood it China was fairly restrictive on who / how many of their own people could leave China for where as a tourist. Is that not the case anymore.
  - lazaroclapp 6y ago
    Independently of that, an exceedingly large number of countries require visas from Chinese citizens. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chinese_citizens#/media/File%3AVisa_requirements_for_Chinese_citizens_holding_ordinary_and_ordinary_passports_for_public_affairs_and_Two-way_and_Exit_%26_Entry_permits.png https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chines... This squares ok with geopolitical reasons, but not economic ones (although they certainly influence that map now and in the future).
    - duxup 6y ago
      I wonder if it is a tit for tat type thing for other folks going to China? It's hard to know. It's extra hard to know on outgoing as what I heard a while ago from someone from China (hard to know if they were really authoritative) was even if you qualified to go someplace else from inside China... your odds of approval was somewhat random / would ebb and flow.
      - Jommi 6y ago
        Its definitely partially a tit for tat bargaining thing. Just like the EU was recently looking at doing an ESTA-lite for US
DrScientist 6y ago
Here in the UK, tourists from China are or are becoming more important than American tourist now.
lm28469 6y ago
The cost of restarting a full blow epidemic in Europe is much higher than the lost tourism money. I doubt we'll see americans anywhere before they get their situation under control.

purple_ferret 6y ago

Can't even get into some neighboring states! So much for the 'union'

slg 6y ago
Do you have a source on that? As far as I'm aware that is illegal. States can require quarantine periods for visitors, but I don't think they can outright ban travel from US citizens/nationals.
- wl 6y ago
  A 14-day quarantine upon return effectively bans many people from traveling.
  - happytoexplain 6y ago
    A reasonable argument, but unfortunately using exaggerated words as a rhetorical tactic. It's unreasonable to simply say "you can't get in" or "you're effectively banned from traveling". What you and the grandparent mean is that a two week quarantine makes it impractical or effectively impossible for some people to travel between the states in question. (Assuming this is what the grandparent was referring to, which we still don't know).
- votepaunchy 6y ago
  I'm not sure that is quite right either. It's not just visitors, anyone traveling to or from the marked region must quarantine. A local citizen returning home must be treated the same as a visitor traveling from another state.
  - slg 6y ago
    I was speaking specifically about the most stringent rules they can have for visitors, but you are exactly right that the rules apply to everyone and not exclusively visitors.
- kube-system 6y ago

capableweb 6y ago

> Americans used to have one of the most prized passports in the world, considered a golden ticket to wealth, travel and opportunity. What? This is not at all true. Maybe that's a belief that many Americans have, but the US passport is not one of the most prized passports in the world, there are about 30 other country's passport I'd rather have before having a US one, if you're talking about getting access to other countries with/without requiring a visa. A quick check of any of the "passport indexes" (Henley Passport Index, Arton Capital Passport Index) will show you that the US passport is fairly low ranked compared to the top ones. Hard to take the rest of the article serious when it starts out with a serious flaw in the reasoning.

Pfhreak 6y ago
Used to. Like 30-40 years ago.
- capableweb 6y ago
  No, the article is mentioning that the "downfall" is because of "the onset of COVID-19", mentioned later in the article. Although 30-40 years ago is probably closer to when the US passport lost its power in reality.
  - irrational 6y ago
    I would put it at pre-Korean war. So, about 70 years ago.
deleted 6y ago
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learc83 6y ago
>but the US passport is not one of the most prized passports in the world Henley Passport Index ranks the US at #7, by a reasonable definition of "one of the most prized", I'd say #7 counts. #1 Japan only has access to 6 more countries visa free than the US does. Edit: The US was ranked #1 in 2006, went down to #7 by 2010, and then was back up to #1 in 2014. We're talking swinging between 185 countries with visa free access and 191 countries here, so the top 10 positions change frequently.

harimau777 6y ago

Does anyone know: How difficult is it for a Sri Lankan citizen to get a temporary visa to come to a developed nation (e.g. for vacation or a business trip)? What is the reasoning for this situation? Other than edge cases where a nation is a security risk or where illegal immigration is a concern what does democratic a country gain by keeping visitors out?

smnrchrds 6y ago
>How difficult is it for a Sri Lankan citizen to get a temporary passport to come to a developed nation (e.g. for vacation or a business trip)? It's called a visa, not a temporary passport. I have friends with weak passports who were Canadian Permanent Residents apply for a visitor visa for the US. They applied 3 months before their intended date of visit (for a conference). The visa was approved 1.5 years after the conference had ended. Another friend in a similar situation had his visa application in process for ~2 years, at which point Trump enacted his travel ban for certain nationalities, including his, so his application was denied after 2 years. In some countries, even booking an interview appointment with the consulate to apply for a visa can take months and maybe more than a year. Most people don't bother with international travel, because it is far too arduous and expensive to get a visa.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
el-salvador 6y ago
I can speak from my experience as a Salvadoran/Latin American where visa restrictions affect Northbound travel. * Take El Salvador and Mexico: They are two countries that are close to each other, they also share language and have historical events in common. It is just a 1.5 hour flight from San Salvador to Mexico City, or a 7 hour drive from border to border. If someone from El Salvador wants to travel to Mexico for business purposes or tourism, and they would be required to have a US/EU visa or do the following: Estimated time required | Task 30 min | Make an appointment (next available slot is in three months) ??? | Have a monthly income higher than 100 days of the mexican capital. This excludes most of Salvadorans, I'd have to check the Labour Ministry for the statistics though. 1 hour | Research mexican minimum wages, convert currency and evaluate if you can apply. 1/2 day | Proof of income signed by the manager /HR / accountant of the company 1/2 day | Notarized copy of the Tax ID and National ID of the signee of the proof of income letter 1/2 day | Notarized copu of the Tax ID and terms of incorporation of the company 2-4 hrs | Account statements of the past six months in official bank letterheard, in a letter format, addressed to the Mexican embassy. 2 hrs | Photo taken according to the specifications in a photo studio. 4 hrs | Hotel / airplane reservations 3 months | Wait for appointment 1hr-6hr | Drive to the Embassy in the capital. 1/2 day | Day of appointment. 5 min | Interview/Aprpoval/Rejection 1 day | Wait for passport to be handed in Visa price: It's actually free :) Other circumstances can cause more paperwork: If company or family members is paying your expenses, or if a Mexican company is inviting you. El Salvador is around haldway on the Passport rankings, and this is not the most complicated case. There is a Mexican Embassy in El Salvador, no translations or apostilles are needed for documentation, and the country is small enough to allow for same day travel to the embassy. Somtimes it requires travelling to another country for the visa interview, mailing your passport and having no passport in the meantime, or to have biometrics taken in a third country (!) * Some countries don't ask for a local visa if the traveller has a US/EU visa. Like Salvadorans don't need a Mexican Visa if they have a US/EU visa. Or Nicaraguans to Costa Rica. Or Ecuadorians to El Salvador.

pdog 6y ago

Most Americans don't even realize they're trapped in their own country now. You can't leave even if you want to.

untog 6y ago
A lot of Americans don’t leave the country anyway, only 42% have passports. I actually don’t think that’s as damning as many make it out to be: foreign vacations are expensive and the US provides an incredible variety of vacation spots at a much more affordable price. It’s just a shame there isn’t as much exposure to different cultures on those trips.
bengoodger 6y ago
Most Americans don't travel abroad. Those that are accustomed to frequent travel for business or leisure are acutely aware of the current situation because it's already blown up their year.
beervirus 6y ago
Most Americans wouldn't get on an airplane right now if you paid them. If I go on a vacation this year, it'll be in a car with my family, not in a cramped aluminum tube sharing infected air with hundreds of strangers.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Most Americans just don't tremendously care. I wouldn't travel internationally right now even if I could; look at what happened to the British tourists in Spain, who got a surprise 2 week quarantine order dropped on them.
duxup 6y ago
Mostly because they're not trapped in their on country. US passports grant access most places still... maybe not as many as before, but much of the world is / will still be open to them.
hoorayimhelping 6y ago
What does it even mean to be "trapped" in America? It's the third largest country in the world by landmass. It takes three to five days to drive across the country. How can you be trapped in a country that is so large, a single human can barely comprehend it?

nimbius 6y ago

This might sound a tad grandiose but its worth stating for contrast. fifty years ago if you were a US citizen in a foreign nation you were nigh untouchable. Even the countries of most ill repute wouldnt dare to upset you. Arresting, imprisoning, or torturing an american meant incurring the wrath of a nation that could bankrupt your entire country by the end of the day, lock your ships in their ports, and ground your airplanes indefinitely. Push your luck hard enough and they could use that same blue-water naval power to raze your parliament, bomb your powerplants, and wipe out your airfields all before the sitting head of US state finished his coffee. That same power could send medical ships to your disasters as well as determine your elections, so Americans were always "welcome" on some level. now in 2020 its a different tune. with The last 3 ground wars either lost or ended in stalemate, and the credit defaults during the debt ceiling brinksmanship of the Obama presidency, the US doesnt command the same Kissinger grade soft power it used to. Its failing health system and derelect leadership has promulgated a nation not of its greatest achievements, but rather a patchwork of cities of pestice each clawing for whatever meager federal scraps they can procure from an increasingly callous and indifferent leadership.

return1 6y ago
The eastern block existed. If anything you were more likely to find refuge from america somewhere than today. Plenty of places where americans were not safe.
- smegger001 6y ago
  only Superpowers will give refuge from the US. the US forced the president of Boliva's plane to land because they suspected Snowden was on board. Can you imagine any other country forcing air-force one to land? We would be at war within the day over such a affront had it been done to us. Only players like Russia China and the US can get away with this kind of behavior.
  - return1 6y ago
    Equador did A superpower creates a block of aligned countries

eric4smith 6y ago

As an American living (and trapped) abroad - I get looks of sympathy and shakes or the head when I mention I’m from the states. One thing I have noticed is that countries want tourism but are now super careful about who they let in. Recently I wanted to travel elsewhere, but was unable to enter most of the world with my American passport. So I got another extension instead for 2 more months. Another thing I’ve noticed is that some countries now actually are beginning to realize that their economies are down, but can survive without the hordes of dirty foreigners coming to their country. So there is just no rush to reopen especially with the medium sized and fast growing countries. Nationalism to some small degree is definitely in play in a lot of governments these days. And with the resurgence of the virus, lockdowns are being expended and reestablished in many places. The reopenings planned for August 1 are definitely not going to happen. No passport is any good right now - except in its own region.

RestlessMind 6y ago
> Another thing I’ve noticed is that some countries now actually are beginning to realize that their economies are down, but can survive without the hordes of dirty foreigners coming to their country. Are you sure? Travel and tourism account for 13% of the economy in Italy and 9% in France and Europe as a whole [1]. So maybe the pain will be tolerated only for a short while before these economies are compelled to open doors to Americans (and Chinese too). [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-tourist-hot-spots-suffer-as-u-s-big-spenders-are-told-to-stay-away-11594132862 https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-tourist-hot-spots-suffe...
- Bayart 6y ago
  France has a lot of domestic tourism, and to an extent European tourism. The economy has been rebounding faster than anticipated so I'm not sure the government would be keen on pulling its pants down to bring in tourists when it's already got more than enough bad press.
- lm28469 6y ago
  The only people who will suffer are the people who destroyed their local industries in favor of tourism related jobs. It's a big issue in some parts of Greece for example, some regions lost most of their regular jobs to tourism and now that shit hits the fan it's a big problem.

dominotw 6y ago

haha damn. I just became a US citizen few months ago after waiting a lifetime in the queue :/ .

120bits 6y ago
Congrats! I'm still waiting for it. No idea when I will get my EAD. Been almost 9 years in US.
- dominotw 6y ago
  Thank you. I got mine after ~18 yrs :)

phyzome 6y ago

Full headline is better: "U.S. citizens no longer have access to most of the world — the global South never had it"

intsunny 6y ago

As an American living overseas I've come to this realization: If Americans cannot respect the rules of their homeland in the language they understand, how can they be expected to elsewhere? Outside the USA, the opinion of the USA is not great [0] right now and it seems unlikely these bans will go away. It sucks for those of us who are doing our parts to flatten the curve and prevent overwhelming the medical systems. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/world/europe/Ireland-americans-break-quarantine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/world/europe/Ireland-amer...

pb7 6y ago
I think it's a huge mistake to assume that the people that, say, refuse to believe in science and/or effectiveness of wearing masks are the same people that are traveling internationally. Only ~45% of Americans even have a passport and most will never leave their home state. I'm going to go out on a limb and say those who think the US is the greatest place on Earth and have no desire to step foot outside of it to test that theory don't have the best intentions.
- onepointsixC 6y ago
  You're probably right. More so it seems to me that Americans are easy punching bags to ignore local domestic stupidity. From everything I've seen the 5G causes corona virus folks are largely not from America, but in online conversation they seem to be swept under the rug.
jb775 6y ago
> the opinion of the USA is not great right now The "opinion" of the USA has never been great, ever since our country was founded. And yet we're the only ones everyone talks about. And our culture and policies and businesses and finances permeate the world. And people are literally dying trying to get in. And then we need to save the world from one of their crazy dictators and the cycle restarts all over again.
- refurb 6y ago
  I've noticed this too. Currently visiting Canada and I'd say 70% of the national news coverage is the US which I found really weird. Is there not enough going on in Canada or other parts of the world? And the best part is the Canadian PM is embroiled in a big scandal, but it's getting less coverage than Covid in the US. Oh and this article is a fantastic example of that. Why would the CBC decide this is a topic worth writing about?

kgwgk 6y ago

U.S. citizens != U.S. residents

duxup 6y ago

>considered a golden ticket to wealth The limits on travel are interesting but overstatements like that really trickle into absurdity. The US's role in the world is changing, but to demonstrate it folks seem to adopt a lot of wonky ideas of what it was.

jkingsbery 6y ago

I don't understand the problem... There's a pandemic, so people in areas that are more affected shouldn't be traveling as much. The US has been heavily affected, therefore Americans shouldn't be traveling internationally without a really good reason. Americans are not experiencing what Sri Lankans experience, because Americans can't go anywhere, and mostly shouldn't be going anywhere; Sri Lankans (under normal circumstances) experience real pain because of visa issues. The article doesn't bother to interview any Americans that these travel restrictions have caused actual problems for. That would have been more helpful than interviewing a European academic. An anecdote (or some actual data) would helpful describe the real problem instead of just saying, "Take that, America!"

vmchale 6y ago
> There's a pandemic, so people in areas that are more affected shouldn't be traveling as much. Indeed, but people from places like Thailand are allowed to travel because their nation has the pandemic under control! Why should the US be so behind Taiwan, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, and so on? It's not for lack of money. > Americans are not experiencing what Sri Lankans experience, because Americans can't go anywhere, and mostly shouldn't be going anywhere; Sri Lankans (under normal circumstances) experience real pain because of visa issues. I agree. We are still highly privileged.
jjcon 6y ago
Yeah I don’t really get the influx of nationalistic clickbait on HN lately... it’s super bizarre
- fermienrico 6y ago
  The world feels like its falling apart with nationalism. Journalists should be more uniting and bring the world together, instead they're chasing what the readers want - a spice mix that gets people high on nationlism. Don't worry, we've got a whole load of it right here in US as well. Remember the pale blue dot? That pale blue dot is festered with a disease, and that's not just COVID-19.

tmountain 6y ago

What is a theoretical maximum time frame for Europe to ban visitors from the US? It seems like the allure of tourists dollars will likely trump public health concerns at some point. Does anyone see this lasting for another year or longer?

ebg13 6y ago

If it makes anyone feel better, most U.S. citizens have _never_ had access to any part of the world because they've been too busy barely making ends meet working dead-end jobs with no healthcare or vacations. So, in the grand scheme of things, is it really so terrible if the middle echelons feel a little squeeze as well as a result of political malfeasance from the people that they (collectively, not individually) put into power?

duxup 6y ago
Yeah this probably seems like a bigger deal to folks who cross international borders (or multiple) regularly. Most Americans do not do that, I wonder what % ever cross an international border... ?
josefresco 6y ago
I hear what you're saying but American's travel more, and spend more on travel than almost any other nation (I just looked it up, URL is in another comment)
- ebg13 6y ago
  America is a very large nation, and it has more people in it than almost any other. It's also, as an aggregate average, wealthier than almost any other nation. And at the same time, most people inside it are not individually wealthy enough to thrive inside it to the extent where they could fly overseas for a while. Per https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-of-americans-who-never-traveled-beyond-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-o... As many as 13 percent say they have never flown in an airplane. Forty percent of those questioned said they’ve never left the country. Over half of respondents have never owned a passport. And that's even with lumping Mexico/Canada into the same group as other continents when they are very dissimilar in terms of travel feasibility. Mexico and Canada get 55% of all international travel from the US. Is that better than an impoverished nation? Absolutely. Does one typically classify the US as an impoverished nation? Not typically.
  - 6y ago

jb775 6y ago

There's a worldwide pandemic going on, no one currently has access to "most of the world". Not sure the point of spinning this as a U.S. citizen specific issue...I guess Canadian journalists just can't resist

sakopov 6y ago

This clickbait of a title is missing "amidst Coronavirus pandemic"

g123g 6y ago

There are travel restrictions all over the world currently due to the COVID-19 situation. People are not allowed to travel from one city to another in the same country without proper documents. Lots of countries are not even allowing international flights at this point. To tie this in just with US passport is simply politically motivated.

fermienrico 6y ago
It is the mix of current US sentiments, its leadership combined with the total chaos going on in this country - journalists are doing a disservice by perpetuating and provoking tribal instincts of nationalism. They're hyping up the downfall of the United States and hoping to get more clicks. Folks who are non-Americans are getting a spicy juicy dose of some anti-US sentiments which is being drank in large quantities overseas. What a sad time.

derg 6y ago

It's so weird for me personally because while I have absolutely zero interest in boarding a plane to go anywhere at the moment, there is a weird small feeling of being trapped so to speak. like losing the option (that i wasn't going to use anyway) to pick up and go anywhere i could theoretically want to. not complaining, just observing a feeling because there are more pressing things for this country and myself at the moment and as the article points out we're now experiencing what it's like for a fairly sizable portion of the world. I guess we are in the middle of reaping what we've sown.

627467 6y ago

This type of news may go stale very quickly... Yes pandemic has instantly created myriad set of obstacles to travel and migration around the world. Maybe some of these restrictions will take enough time to be lifted... But, does anyone believe that most of the world will suddenly reject American money (for business and leisure) for long term? I mean, just look at the "in-fight" happening in Europe where southern countries want northern tourists despite pandemic status...

m1117 6y ago

IMO it's temporary. (IMHO!) The population of America is very large, and it's hard for the government to control all the idiots(a good percentage of the population?) who live in it, and also it's hard for the government to be organized themselves because they're busy fighting for power and blaming each other. Great country, but COVID exposed some of the weaknesses.

jeffbee 6y ago

And if your passport expired during COVID-19, like mine did, you can apparently forget about getting a new one for at least a year.

pb7 6y ago
At first glance, it would appear so but if you check the FAQ where they list the number of current passport renewal applications and how many they get through per week, right now there's about a ~8 week wait. Long, but not a year.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  I guess I formed this opinion since I have to apply in person for my childrens' renewals.
  - pb7 6y ago
    Ah yeah, good luck with that. They want nothing to do with in-person renewals right now.
ORioN63 6y ago
I got mine to travel to the US in the end of March. Yeah...

yalogin 6y ago

I don't think losing access to most of the world is a permanent thing. It's purely because of the virus and nothing else which is self inflicted. The foreign policy and all around lack of empathy shown by the WH will all pass. As a country though, the US has become the beacon of anti-science nut jobs starting from the president. For the leading tech country in the world, it's jarring how anti-science it is. The whole world seems to have gotten a grip on the situation except the US, which is still consumed with frivolous things like throwing the first pitch at the Yankees game , just because he is jealous of Dr.Fauci.

jorblumesea 6y ago

The disconnect between how the world sees the US and how the US sees itself is astounding.

Trias11 6y ago

The bigger problem for US citizens is that US Passport is essentially an IRS trap, no matter where you decide to live.

AlchemistCamp 6y ago
How does having a passport affect a US citizen's taxes?

maerF0x0 6y ago

US Citizenship may have once been a prestigous thing, but now it's met with a sort of elitism that suggests Americans are inferior (stupid, boorish, backward etc). In my experience living here the differences between Canada & the US are grossly exaggerated and many countries respect Canada much more. I think the well calibrated view would give America more credit for the role it's played/playing globally.

irrational 6y ago

On the one hand I think "Oh good, all these people who are convinced of the superiority of the USSA will start to get a clue." But, then I remember that these are also the same people who are extremely unlikely to have ever left their hometown, much less traveled to a different country. So this won't phase them at all.

karlakush 6y ago

From Maine to Alaska to Pago Pago to the Virgin Islands, there's a lot of world you can visit without ever leaving the United States.

JSavageOne 6y ago

I'm currently trapped in the U.S. waiting for my passport renewal, which currently takes 3-4 months. Since you have to mail in your existing passport to get your passport renewed, I literally have no passport until the new one arrives in the mail. People who applied for their new passports in March are only now getting their new passports in the mail today. I know someone will say "oh you shouldn't be traveling anyways". I don't live in the U.S. anymore, I live abroad. I only returned to the U.S. because I had hit my visa limit abroad, and thought I could get my passport renewed within a reasonable time frame in the U.S. (max 1 month). How stupid of me to assume my country took passport processing seriously and with any sense of urgency.

4cao 6y ago

In the middle of a pandemic, similar restrictions apply to everyone. These restrictions are generally not based on citizenship but residency. Everybody is encouraged to stay where they are (or were, when it broke out). US citizens residing abroad are not being treated any worse than they were: it's just more difficult to move from country A to country B anywhere in the world for anybody right now (except within the EU/EEA, which largely reopened). US citizens are not being singled out, and while they're also not being given preferential treatment, it is hard to imagine they would have been had this happened anytime in the past, say 50 years ago. The situation is just largely unprecedented. It is inaccurate to compare the situation of travellers now and in the past, when travel was much less common and less affordable, and thus the population flows were much smaller: this is the first pandemic of the global era, so of course the restrictions are going to impact more people and be more noticeable than any similar measures implemented in the past. Arguably it has to be so to control the spread of the virus. On a general note, the US passport was never a great choice for people who mostly live outside the US due to the cumbersome tax regulations one has to endure as part of being a US citizen but, it can be argued, it could remain so precisely due to the power the US enjoys to compel other countries to enforce its laws, as demonstrated with e.g. FATCA [1]. Thus there has always been a steady outflow of millionaires looking for greener pastures. [2] Separately, the US passport was also never highly-ranked for people who just wanted to travel around as visitors: in that category it is easily outclassed by e.g. Singapore or Japan, which let you visit China or (in the latter case) India visa-free. [3] Still, that was never the reason for it being so prized: the US has likely the best career opportunities in the world, so people want the citizenship and the passport that comes with it to get inside the country, not to stay away from it and go elsewhere. If they do travel abroad however, the US passport still generally affords unrivalled consular protection in most of the world. And nothing really changes in this department just because of the pandemic. I'm really surprised to see an article like this from what purportedly aspires to be the Canadian BBC. It's really quite poorly-researched for such an alarmist tone. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance... 2. https://www.cbsnews.com/media/5-citizens-who-left-the-us-to-avoid-paying-tax/ https://www.cbsnews.com/media/5-citizens-who-left-the-us-to-... 3. https://www.henleypassportindex.com/ https://www.henleypassportindex.com/

Jommi 6y ago

The whole backwards part about this is that the Schengen travel restrictions are still in place. So somebody who has visited a Schengen country even with under 10 covid cases a week (like most Nordics) can't travel directly to the US. They have to fly to a country like Mexico or Canada (which are both still battling covid) and then enter the border after 14 days. Oh BUT if you're a US citizen or with a resident visa, you can enter from wherever. Oh AND if you're a student with in person classes, you can enter. But me with a house and a job and a visa, can't enter. How the fuck can this happen?