5 ms·

You spend around half of your wakeful hours at your job, if it's unfulfilling you're trading misery in addition to time for money.

WJW 6y ago
That's why they pay you money for it. If it was fun, people would do it for free (see the FOSS world and its endless discussions on how to monetize).
- pharke 6y ago
  If it was fun, it would be a sole proprietorship.
- throwaway98797 6y ago
  Got to believe that it’s possible before you can find it.
- underdeserver 6y ago
  They pay you money because you bring them value. Not because it's fulfilling or not for you in any way.
  - foldr 6y ago
    They pay because you wouldn't bring them value if they didn't pay. Otherwise Facebook would be paying the developers of every open source project that they use.
  - benhurmarcel 6y ago
    > They pay you money because you bring them value Not at all. They pay what it would cost to replace you. If someone accepted to do the same job for cheaper (or free), they'd take it, regardless of the value it generates.
    - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
      Do you not agree that value creation is correlated with salary?
      - x0x0 6y ago
        Not particularly strongly. Salary is correlated with market demand and alternatives, both for the company and the employee. For example, I know engineers who are some of the most valuable people in the company, and some engineers who are borderline useless. You can be borderline useless but good at self promotion / good at negotiation and be paid a lot more than very valuable eng. fwiw, I'm on the business side of the house, but used to be an engineer. So I think primarily in terms of business value. Or think of CSMs. They get paid a lot less, on average, than engineers. Are they less valuable / do they create less value? It's quite hard to make that argument: No CSMs, no customers and no upsells.
        ZephyrBlu 6y ago
        I agree salary is correlated with demand, but I also believe there's a reason for that demand. CSMs have no leverage. Engineers are powerful because their work can have an org-wide impact. If we're talking about business value I think that sales (B2B), marketing (B2C/DTC) and engineers are the largest generators of business value in companies because of the leverage they have.
        x0x0 6y ago
        I have worked in b2b selling to enterprise or midmarket for my whole career, so individual customers are generally noticeable amounts of revenue. And our lowest end customers have CLVs in the 250k+ range. So that obviously influences my view of whether CSMs have org-wide impact. I can see how that differs with a different business model, but I don't see how you can simultaneously believe CSMs don't have leverage, but salespeople do. In a business -- particularly in a saas model -- where you have CSMs and AEs, CSMs have more leverage, because you probably barely break even on year one of a customer.
        6y ago
  - JSavageOne 6y ago
    Not value, money. Every job centers around money because we're working for businesses. "Value" is just a side effect (and not a necessary one at that). Some people find making money meaningful and fulfilling, many of us don't.
- chownie 6y ago
  That answers a point I didn't make. Everyone exchanges their time for money, if you work a job that's entirely unfulfilling you're trading happiness too. It's an exchange that no one wins.
  - WJW 6y ago
    The company might still win in that exchange, since they get the labor they paid for anyway. Whether you are happy or not is only important insomuch as it alters your productivity. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a company of FAANG size cares all that much about individual employees.
    - chownie 6y ago
      > Don't fall into the trap of thinking a company of FAANG size cares all that much about individual employees. Don't fall into the trap of thinking everyone posting on HN comes from a similar background. I work for a non-profit who go to great lengths to make the workplace comfortable.
      - WJW 6y ago
        Don't get me wrong, I think that's great and I'm happy you have a nice workplace. My comments were in the greater context of the thread, which is about working for FAANG companies.
    - Sodman 6y ago
      I'm not saying big companies deeply care about you as a person, but their interests are at least partially aligned with yours on this. Happier employees are more engaged, work harder, work longer hours. In many cases the things that make employees "happier" are a lot cheaper for employers than increasing someone's salary by x%.
  - rini17 6y ago
    Well, you adapt yourself to find some fun/fullfillment in the work that is available. To approach work with the mindset "it must be fun or else!" can lead to a lifetime of misery.
- andrewaylett 6y ago
  My job brings me opportunities of scale that I'm unlikely to find elsewhere, and I genuinely enjoy the challenges, but I'd work on something else if they didn't pay me to do it. It's not that it's not fun, but fun doesn't pay the bills. If it didn't _have_ to pay the bills, I'd probably still develop software but with a very different focus.
itsmeamario 6y ago
welcome to the workforce! Where you receive money for doing a task you don't care to do.

WJW 6y ago

That's why they pay you money for it. If it was fun, people would do it for free (see the FOSS world and its endless discussions on how to monetize).

pharke 6y ago
If it was fun, it would be a sole proprietorship.
throwaway98797 6y ago
Got to believe that it’s possible before you can find it.
underdeserver 6y ago
They pay you money because you bring them value. Not because it's fulfilling or not for you in any way.
- foldr 6y ago
  They pay because you wouldn't bring them value if they didn't pay. Otherwise Facebook would be paying the developers of every open source project that they use.
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  > They pay you money because you bring them value Not at all. They pay what it would cost to replace you. If someone accepted to do the same job for cheaper (or free), they'd take it, regardless of the value it generates.
  - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
    Do you not agree that value creation is correlated with salary?
    - x0x0 6y ago
      Not particularly strongly. Salary is correlated with market demand and alternatives, both for the company and the employee. For example, I know engineers who are some of the most valuable people in the company, and some engineers who are borderline useless. You can be borderline useless but good at self promotion / good at negotiation and be paid a lot more than very valuable eng. fwiw, I'm on the business side of the house, but used to be an engineer. So I think primarily in terms of business value. Or think of CSMs. They get paid a lot less, on average, than engineers. Are they less valuable / do they create less value? It's quite hard to make that argument: No CSMs, no customers and no upsells.
      - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
        I agree salary is correlated with demand, but I also believe there's a reason for that demand. CSMs have no leverage. Engineers are powerful because their work can have an org-wide impact. If we're talking about business value I think that sales (B2B), marketing (B2C/DTC) and engineers are the largest generators of business value in companies because of the leverage they have.
        x0x0 6y ago
        I have worked in b2b selling to enterprise or midmarket for my whole career, so individual customers are generally noticeable amounts of revenue. And our lowest end customers have CLVs in the 250k+ range. So that obviously influences my view of whether CSMs have org-wide impact. I can see how that differs with a different business model, but I don't see how you can simultaneously believe CSMs don't have leverage, but salespeople do. In a business -- particularly in a saas model -- where you have CSMs and AEs, CSMs have more leverage, because you probably barely break even on year one of a customer.
        6y ago
- JSavageOne 6y ago
  Not value, money. Every job centers around money because we're working for businesses. "Value" is just a side effect (and not a necessary one at that). Some people find making money meaningful and fulfilling, many of us don't.
chownie 6y ago
That answers a point I didn't make. Everyone exchanges their time for money, if you work a job that's entirely unfulfilling you're trading happiness too. It's an exchange that no one wins.
- WJW 6y ago
  The company might still win in that exchange, since they get the labor they paid for anyway. Whether you are happy or not is only important insomuch as it alters your productivity. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a company of FAANG size cares all that much about individual employees.
  - chownie 6y ago
    > Don't fall into the trap of thinking a company of FAANG size cares all that much about individual employees. Don't fall into the trap of thinking everyone posting on HN comes from a similar background. I work for a non-profit who go to great lengths to make the workplace comfortable.
    - WJW 6y ago
      Don't get me wrong, I think that's great and I'm happy you have a nice workplace. My comments were in the greater context of the thread, which is about working for FAANG companies.
  - Sodman 6y ago
    I'm not saying big companies deeply care about you as a person, but their interests are at least partially aligned with yours on this. Happier employees are more engaged, work harder, work longer hours. In many cases the things that make employees "happier" are a lot cheaper for employers than increasing someone's salary by x%.
- rini17 6y ago
  Well, you adapt yourself to find some fun/fullfillment in the work that is available. To approach work with the mindset "it must be fun or else!" can lead to a lifetime of misery.
andrewaylett 6y ago
My job brings me opportunities of scale that I'm unlikely to find elsewhere, and I genuinely enjoy the challenges, but I'd work on something else if they didn't pay me to do it. It's not that it's not fun, but fun doesn't pay the bills. If it didn't _have_ to pay the bills, I'd probably still develop software but with a very different focus.

itsmeamario 6y ago

welcome to the workforce! Where you receive money for doing a task you don't care to do.