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Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

173 points by kalium-xyz 6y ago

rayiner 6y ago
As someone from a country that was formerly part of the British Empire, I am viewing the situation in Hong Kong with horror. There are many negative things about the British legacy, but they gave us a global language, institutions, law, and notions of personal and economic freedom. The idea of all that being eaten by China...
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Might makes right, nothing we can do about it unless people are willing to die to protect them.
  - afarrell 6y ago
    And also to kill. And there are a lot of mainland Chinese people. Frankly, I don’t know how anyone has the stomach to sit behind a heavy machine gun and turn 200 mothers’ sons into rotting meat. I’d probably reach for my pistol. Not that the PLA likely uses the same tactics as they did in the 1950s.
  - bigpumpkin 6y ago
    HK is just too close to China, you wouldn't want to throw your forces to defend it. Taiwan is probably defendable although it's better for everyone if it remains de facto independent but not risk China's ire.
    - mcny 6y ago
      It is a little ridiculous that the Republic of China can't be a member of world health organization though.
  - umvi 6y ago
    "Freedom isn't free" Freedom is extremely expensive in terms of blood required to achieve it, so I'm always amazed at how easily people are convinced to give it up one inch at a time until it's all gone again.
    - mensetmanusman 6y ago
      Most people don’t realize that the equilibrium state of humanity is definitely not freedom. Just check your nextdoor app, or facebook: humans love telling other humans how to behave, if you give them force, they will use it.
      - candiodari 6y ago
        And in plenty of fields, people do actually have this option. Correcting society is an explicit goal of social work and psychology, both in research and practice. From "youth work" (50%+ unwanted by both youth and parents, and when it comes to residential treatments 85%+ unwanted, and 12% residential treatment is convicted youth) to "social work" for adults (again, majority is unwanted) And of course, unwanted means that for the "clients" there is at the very least a threat of violence against them (or their kids/family/...) in the majority (for kids VERY large majority) of cases. In some countries, "the social sector" is the biggest public sector, in all countries it's very, very big. Including the US, but at least here it doesn't exceed education or the medical sector in size. Of course, these don't let themselves be stopped by the longstanding research pointing out that without client's cooperation (and of course unwanted means no cooperation), there is little to no point to treatment, and very significant downsides. Which is why horror stories like this happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_Pothoven#:~:text=3%20Publications-,Life%20and%20activism,and%20made%20her%20well%2Dknown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_Pothoven#:~:text=3%20Publi.... Such horror stories are anecdotal evidence. The real proof comes from large scale statistical studies: https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s2215-0366(19)30180-4 https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s2215-0366(19)30180-4 Or, for the youth case: https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583 https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583
    - lenkite 6y ago
      As the American Declaration of Independence states "..all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed" What a truly, extra-ordinary document on the human condition. Coming up with that text in that era..I wish I had that kind of insight and wisdom.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  It has literally all been eaten by China with this latest law. The idea of HK as separate from China is just over.
  - apexalpha 6y ago
    Which was always the endgame for China. Sure, they agreed to transition period until 2050 or so... But when that was signed HK was a significant part of the Chinese economy. Even though HK is still significant, it's been eclipsed by China itself, and China can afford to kill (part) of HK to finally end this humiliation, as they see it.
chrisco255 6y ago
I wish the U.S. could make a New Hong Kong territory on the west coast somewhere. I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here.
- option 6y ago
  we (US) should just give them all path to citizenship. No, special territory is a horrible idea.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Nah I think in HK's case it would be awesome. They'd have the autonomy to set up their own laws and regulations similar to what they currently have. I know this is a pie in the sky proposal but in my ideal world this would be a thing.
    - throwawaybab323 6y ago
      That sounds like a terrible idea. That would give china an excuse to try to kick the us out of asia.
      - chrisco255 6y ago
        If you mean our military bases in Japan and South Korea, who have no great trust of China, I'm not sure why China's opinion would be relevant there. If it's not controversial for Britain to offer them citizenship then it shouldn't be for US either. Even if it is...you gotta stand up to communism.
        tialaramex 6y ago
        > If it's not controversial for Britain to offer them citizenship then it shouldn't be for US either China objects strongly. It says these are Chinese citizens and Britain ceased to have any claim over the territory decades ago. Of course since Britain's offer exists only on paper (there is no mechanism proposed by which a typical person in Hong Kong should actually make use of the offer to leave) the Chinese objection likewise extends only to paper.
georgeburdell 6y ago
The UK stands to benefit tremendously from this olive branch to the HK people. It could rival Operation Paperclip (but without the war crimes coverups)
- amiga_500 6y ago
  The "happy coincidence" to a genuinely welcome offer is a huge boost to a collapsing real estate market.
replyifuagree 6y ago
This seems like the only way forward for HK citizens :-/
cft 6y ago
It would be highly advantageous for the US to offer the same (assuming they even want to come here still)
- tempestn 6y ago
  Seems unlikely at the moment; the US seems very focused on doing the opposite.
  - tim58 6y ago
    While it's true the trump administration is very anti immigrant at, it is also very anti ccp.
    - addicted 6y ago
      I don’t understand where people get that idea from. In practice nothing the US has done has hurt the CCP. If anything, it has strengthened them domestically. The major actions the Trump administration has taken against China are: 1) Tariffs which only served to hurt American farmers, considering there was hardly any drop off in Chinese exports to the US (and that’s on paper, since a lot of Chinese exports are now hidden as Vietnamese exports, etc) but significant drop offs in American exports to China. 2) A long sustained battle against 1 Chinese company. While Huawei is suffering, the likes of Xiaomi, etc are still doing just fine. 3) Whining about the nomenclature around SARS-COV-2. On the flip side, the administration dismantled TPP, which was a decade+ long effort spanning multiple US administrations, and nearly every non Chinese country on the Pacific, that would have actually dealt a huge blow to Chinese bullying by providing companies doing manufacturing in China much more attractive alternatives in the countries surrounding China.
      - lenkite 6y ago
        Xiaomi is only in end-user electronics and has nothing on infrastructure hardware - AFAIK it is not competing with US companies in deploying 5G hardware. I do not consider a +20% drop in Chinese exports to the US as "hardly any drop". Trump has put an end to e-packet which was killing US small-scale businesses: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump-changes-terminal-dues-and-epacket-rates/573337/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump... TPP was a nightmare opposed both by the left and right - and even by Hillary Clinton - at-least formally in her campaign. Only corporate shareholders supported it. It even pushed copyright terms further! See https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/whats-wrong-tpp https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/whats-wrong-tpp
Ericson2314 6y ago
I hope this doesn't get ugly when people try to actually leave. On the bright side, I wonder what good things this will do for the UK. I doubt many of these people will vote Torry.
- rayiner 6y ago
  Many immigrants who fled communism to come to the US remain strong Republican voters. Cubans are still registered Republicans 2:1. Even as of 2008, Vietnamese Americans were registered Republicans by a significant margin. Unlike Trump, Johnson has done a good job pulling in minority voters. About half the Indian MPs in the U.K. Parliament are Tories. Your comment is particularly inexplicable given that Labour just ran someone who wants to put a call for collectivizing property back in Labour’s platform.
  - peteretep 6y ago
    Of the four “Great Offices of State”, two are held by people of South Asian heritage, as is the AG, and another Cabinet Member. Two of those people are also women. Got to imaging Sajid Javid will be back there soon. Three of those five families that went via the empire in Africa. Conspicuous absence of black people tho.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      I imagine Javid will battle it out with Sunak if the Tories decide Boris can't cut it against Keir
      - peteretep 6y ago
        I imagine Priti will throw her hat in the ring too, although God forbid it comes to pass. I think Sunak would be a strong choice, where Javid doesn’t have the charisma.
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    People are not leaving Hong Kong because of the Mainland's leftist economic policies. This isn't 1960s Mao-led China we are talking about. Cuban Floridians who came of age after the Cold War have very different politics. https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-cuban-american-poll-20190131-story.html https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-cuban-ameri... Vietnamese Americans: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/vietnamese-americans-are-no-longer-a-lock-for-the-republican-party/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/vietnamese-americans-ar...
Rapzid 6y ago
The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China..
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kiba 6y ago
  Mistake what? Risk a war with China?
- throwaway2048 6y ago
  Ultimately, the UK had absolutely zero chance at holding HK against the Chinese, HK was a tiny colony that could be seized basically instantly, and at the time decolonialization was still a global hotbutton issue. A few decades before negotiations began between China and the UK, India seized the Portuguese colony of Goa[1]. Nobody acted on behalf of the Portuguese. With the USA having just a few years beforehand suffered defeat in the Vietnam war, and extremely unlikely to have the public support for another land war in Asia, but this time against a vastly stronger opponent for a relatively much less important parcel of land, There is little reason to believe anyone would have, or could have seriously contested China seizing Hong Kong. Consider as well, during the Korean war, A China still badly crippled by World War 2 almost single handedly defeated an entire coalition of western powers, including a USA at the zenith of their conventional arms power. The declaration was an alternative to a military annexation of Hong Kong by the Chinese. The British probably acquiesced more than they had to, and didn't guarantee enough rights for Hong Kong citizens (especially the really lame part about not giving them a path to citizenship in the UK proper), but make no mistake, the alternative to the declaration wasn't Hong Kong remaining a part of the UK, it was Chinese invasion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Goa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Goa
  - 6y ago
charliebrownau 6y ago
UK and West+EU hasnt got enough enrichment by the hands of anti whites using open borders + Diversity and multiculturalism to destroy white nations and western freedom Besides the mass hordes of ISLAMIC INVASION and BLACKS, now we need more asians that will vote for - wealth redistrubtion - GST/VAT - Welfare - Pandering to old people/disabled/women
Animats 6y ago
First Hong Kong, next Taiwan?
- acdha 6y ago
  That’s what I keep thinking: this is a dry-run sewing if they’ll get meaningful backlash from the next U.S. President.
  - peteretep 6y ago
    Taiwan and Hong Kong couldn’t be more different though. Hong Kong legislature (heavily influenced by China) passed this law (edit: this turns out not to be true). Hong Kong is already part of China. You don’t have 200km of water to cross against a country that’s prepared for just that. There’s no TSMC. If it’s a dry run for Taiwan, it’s a really shitty one.
    - iliveinchina 6y ago
      This is factually incorrect. China's legislature amended Hong Kong's constitution to add the new national security law precisely because the Hong Kong legislature - even under heavy influence by mainland China - was unable to pass it.
      - peteretep 6y ago
        Sure. Regardless, legislative means were used, not force.
        garmaine 6y ago
        Legislative means we’re not used. China had no legal authority to do what they did... but no one will stop them. You are correct to point out that force was not used (n/m the divisions of tanks that have been on the border), and Taiwan is different.
        6y ago
reaperducer 6y ago
It's worth noting that this article is 11 days old. A more recent dispatch would be more meaningful since things have happened since then.
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  It's here for the daily HN China circlejerk, being dated doesn't matter in the slightest.
throwaway5575 6y ago
They should have just done it from the start, > Britain’s ‘disgraceful’ pre-handover efforts to deny nationality to Hongkongers revealed in declassified cabinet files > Officials repeatedly pressured Portugal not to grant rights to Macau residents to prevent Hongkongers from asking for similar treatment https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/2156385/britains-disgraceful-pre-handover-efforts-deny-nationality https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/2156385...
aswanson 6y ago
China is a horrific, authoritarian monster. I hope this century sees their vision checked and reduced back to the edges of humanity.
- door99 6y ago
  In the last 40 years, while China lifted a billion people out of poverty, what evil did they commit that is even remotely comparable to what the US did in, say, Iraq?
  - rayiner 6y ago
    They lifted people out of poverty by ditching an economic system that kept those people in poverty for decades.
    - mcswell 6y ago
      I assume you're referring to ditching the communist system, right? which under Mao was responsible for 20-46 million deaths from starvation (that # is from wikipedia). Unfortunately, while they've ditched the economic part of communism, they've retained the dictatorial part, while moving towards the vision in 1984--a vision that seemed absurdly impractical when I read the book back in the 60s. But AI is now making it possible for the Chinese overloads to implement. Yeah, Xi double-plus good. And I'm sure Winnie will increase the chocolate ration next week.
      - AngryData 6y ago
        I fail to see how the "dictatorial part" by itself is communist. If you aren't economically communist, how can you be communist when communism is an economic system? It would be like claiming a country that got rid of investments and capital gains and private ownership of industry is still capitalist because it is a political republic, despite the fact that you can be capitalist under any political system.
  - AlgorithmicTime 6y ago
tacocataco 6y ago
You would think China would be happy to have everyone just leave HK so it could fill it with its own people.
Chiba-City 6y ago
Americans are the most isolated, ahistorical and heavily propagandized humans on earth. Post-imperial Brits can't feed themselves. So says Brit philosopher John Gray, one of the architects of Thatcherism. I personally helped destroy the Apartheid govt South African govt, from Harvard, working for/with Unitarians, and met Desmond Tutu in the process. I fully expect horrifying and unspeakable Karmic retributions to befall the spawn of post-Imperial racist Brits and their pretenders. The Chinese enjoy a post-colonial unity we colonial peoples (who are not a people) cannot imagine, with more historical neighbors than any other country and a longer continuous written history than any other peoples. Americans suffer Stockholm Syndrome and widespread infantilism. Anticipate their exponential sufferings.
- biscotti 6y ago
  Looking at statistics the murder rate was 170 a year between 1948-1989 under the South Africa govt you helped bring down. Since 1994 that number is 24,206. The brutal “necklacing” method of execution itself was pioneered by Mandelas ANC. You may fault the 'racist' Brits, but they put an end to Shaka Zulus 500 mile genocide perimeter and they attempted to civilise many peoples whose languages lacked basic concepts such as time, future & present. It's telling that you use Trotskys perversion of language to slander them. Aided by infiltrators and agitators such as yourself, what came after didn't seem to value the virtues of honesty, tolerance and friendship between peoples the Brits were taught. Chinese culture regard higher those who use dishonesty to gain advantage. I will conceed though, it really was a great strategy the commies employed to exacerbate splits in the peoples, weaponise race then arm the pressure groups. Not only did it ensure governance became untenable, it also resulted in mass genocide including Mau Mau, Zanzibar and Ugandan genocides and the loss of any hope of the conservation of the majestic African fauna [1]. China now spoils and pillages Africa on a scale Rhodes would never have dreamt of. Although civilisation lost I guess for them, it was worth it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V355OG77SQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V355OG77SQM
Chiba-City 6y ago
Does anyone follow British domestic politics? They can't stand Polish (et al) immigrants amongst their numbers, much less browner skinned Indians and muslims. Brits are an increasingly irrelevant, racist, and post-Imperial bitter and reckless island nation (the size of Morocco) that can't feed itself. As an American citizen, I advocate a 2nd 1776, whereupon we set their miserable Brit "ship of state" adrift forever. Our future is better secured by a fully reciprocal "nationalism" that does not sanction racist jingoism. Consult John Mearsheimer for broader exposition of a fruitful and respectful reciprocal nationalism without pretenses to "universalism."
- Renaud 6y ago
  There are too many generalisations here to take any of your points seriously. Racism exists in all countries, not just Britain. It may be worse or better in Britain than elsewhere but it's certainly not alone. If your point is that the potential influx of HKers will create social tensions and feed into racism then I would agree, but that's not specific to the UK. Having 3M people suddenly popping up on your doorstep can be a challenge. However, while I hope that many HKers take on the opportunity to get a real British passport, I know most will do this as a backup plan. They will funnel their families and finances out of HK (to the benefit of the UK) but still live in HK for the most part. Most HKer know they can't just show-up in the UK and be successful there as they are in HK. Some will enjoy some opportunities and will manage to build or rebuild their success but most have their lives strongly anchored in the economic fabric of HK, and that's not easy to transpose elsewhere.
  - Chiba-City 6y ago
    I lived in Ukraine under complete currency collapse. I hope for the collapse of the British pound. Make no mistake. I'm a Christian. "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." - Matthew 16:52. I pray for and celebrate the deaths of mercenary soldiers, drug addicts, drunk drivers, liars for money. I celebrate the deaths of imperial conquistadors and praise the lives of in situ historical peoples on their own lands. We're NOT a team. My passport remains intact. I have materially and forcefully and successfully contributed to the violent demise of South African apartheid "whites," at Harvard, and working for and with Unitarians. Know the frames of our dialog. I am a moralist. Play win-win, or lose.
Renaud 6y ago
Can someone correct the typo in the title?
supernova87a 6y ago
Not to make light of the offer (and I personally know people who may be affected), but why would someone from HK really want to move to the UK? Cold weather, mediocre food, expensive prices, expensive housing, and an economy and system on the verge of entering a highly destabilized period. That's an attractive offer?
- 0d311 6y ago
  ... compared to a authoritarian regime with literal concentration camps?
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    That is not in HK, let's be clear with the facts. And neither is it an imminent possibility that people in HK are about to be subjected to that crime. Until China marches across the border.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  A market for improvement in food and you think china is doing good? China is a literal welfare state that relies on the east of China. Most intake wealth while the East actually generates it, the Pearl River Delta is also where most of the economic progress occurs.
- easytiger 6y ago
  > cold weather South of England, particularly London gets pretty low rainfall and decent weather temperatures > Mediocre food You don't know what you are talking about! > expensive prices Compared to what? > and an economy and system on the verge of entering a highly destabilized period. Yea HK definitely won't experience any of that
  - mam2 6y ago
    You are delusional
    - 6y ago
dang 6y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23701333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23701333
Chiba-City 6y ago
Read George Friedman of STATFOR fame and fortune. Brits are in the trouble they deserve. Your affectations, restaurant reviews and completely fake "team seeking identities" are completely irrelevant. You [Ed. spelling] and what what armies? https://geopoliticalfutures.com/the-geopolitics-of-britain/ https://geopoliticalfutures.com/the-geopolitics-of-britain/
mstaoru 6y ago
I lived in China since 2008, and in between also in Hong Kong for a few years (2013-2014). Hongkongers are absolutely different people, and even if there is be a formal annexation by China, cultural assimilation will take a few generations of unrest at least. It was always a very different feeling stepping on the East Railway after crossing the border in Shenzhen. The phone alive with all the missed Gmail messages and Telegram chats. For me there is no Hong Kong anymore. There is Xianggang city, Guangdong province.
redis_mlc 6y ago
Likely China will close the HK borders and airports now to HK citizens, just like the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War. Communists and totalitarians can't tolerate the image of citizens bailing for greener pastures.

173 points by kalium-xyz 6y ago

As someone from a country that was formerly part of the British Empire, I am viewing the situation in Hong Kong with horror. There are many negative things about the British legacy, but they gave us a global language, institutions, law, and notions of personal and economic freedom. The idea of all that being eaten by China...

mensetmanusman 6y ago
Might makes right, nothing we can do about it unless people are willing to die to protect them.
- afarrell 6y ago
  And also to kill. And there are a lot of mainland Chinese people. Frankly, I don’t know how anyone has the stomach to sit behind a heavy machine gun and turn 200 mothers’ sons into rotting meat. I’d probably reach for my pistol. Not that the PLA likely uses the same tactics as they did in the 1950s.
- bigpumpkin 6y ago
  HK is just too close to China, you wouldn't want to throw your forces to defend it. Taiwan is probably defendable although it's better for everyone if it remains de facto independent but not risk China's ire.
  - mcny 6y ago
    It is a little ridiculous that the Republic of China can't be a member of world health organization though.
- umvi 6y ago
  "Freedom isn't free" Freedom is extremely expensive in terms of blood required to achieve it, so I'm always amazed at how easily people are convinced to give it up one inch at a time until it's all gone again.
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    Most people don’t realize that the equilibrium state of humanity is definitely not freedom. Just check your nextdoor app, or facebook: humans love telling other humans how to behave, if you give them force, they will use it.
    - candiodari 6y ago
      And in plenty of fields, people do actually have this option. Correcting society is an explicit goal of social work and psychology, both in research and practice. From "youth work" (50%+ unwanted by both youth and parents, and when it comes to residential treatments 85%+ unwanted, and 12% residential treatment is convicted youth) to "social work" for adults (again, majority is unwanted) And of course, unwanted means that for the "clients" there is at the very least a threat of violence against them (or their kids/family/...) in the majority (for kids VERY large majority) of cases. In some countries, "the social sector" is the biggest public sector, in all countries it's very, very big. Including the US, but at least here it doesn't exceed education or the medical sector in size. Of course, these don't let themselves be stopped by the longstanding research pointing out that without client's cooperation (and of course unwanted means no cooperation), there is little to no point to treatment, and very significant downsides. Which is why horror stories like this happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_Pothoven#:~:text=3%20Publications-,Life%20and%20activism,and%20made%20her%20well%2Dknown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_Pothoven#:~:text=3%20Publi.... Such horror stories are anecdotal evidence. The real proof comes from large scale statistical studies: https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s2215-0366(19)30180-4 https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s2215-0366(19)30180-4 Or, for the youth case: https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583 https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583
  - lenkite 6y ago
    As the American Declaration of Independence states "..all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed" What a truly, extra-ordinary document on the human condition. Coming up with that text in that era..I wish I had that kind of insight and wisdom.
Aeolun 6y ago
It has literally all been eaten by China with this latest law. The idea of HK as separate from China is just over.
- apexalpha 6y ago
  Which was always the endgame for China. Sure, they agreed to transition period until 2050 or so... But when that was signed HK was a significant part of the Chinese economy. Even though HK is still significant, it's been eclipsed by China itself, and China can afford to kill (part) of HK to finally end this humiliation, as they see it.

chrisco255 6y ago

I wish the U.S. could make a New Hong Kong territory on the west coast somewhere. I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here.

option 6y ago
we (US) should just give them all path to citizenship. No, special territory is a horrible idea.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Nah I think in HK's case it would be awesome. They'd have the autonomy to set up their own laws and regulations similar to what they currently have. I know this is a pie in the sky proposal but in my ideal world this would be a thing.
  - throwawaybab323 6y ago
    That sounds like a terrible idea. That would give china an excuse to try to kick the us out of asia.
    - chrisco255 6y ago
      If you mean our military bases in Japan and South Korea, who have no great trust of China, I'm not sure why China's opinion would be relevant there. If it's not controversial for Britain to offer them citizenship then it shouldn't be for US either. Even if it is...you gotta stand up to communism.
      - tialaramex 6y ago
        > If it's not controversial for Britain to offer them citizenship then it shouldn't be for US either China objects strongly. It says these are Chinese citizens and Britain ceased to have any claim over the territory decades ago. Of course since Britain's offer exists only on paper (there is no mechanism proposed by which a typical person in Hong Kong should actually make use of the offer to leave) the Chinese objection likewise extends only to paper.

georgeburdell 6y ago

The UK stands to benefit tremendously from this olive branch to the HK people. It could rival Operation Paperclip (but without the war crimes coverups)

amiga_500 6y ago
The "happy coincidence" to a genuinely welcome offer is a huge boost to a collapsing real estate market.

replyifuagree 6y ago

This seems like the only way forward for HK citizens :-/

cft 6y ago

It would be highly advantageous for the US to offer the same (assuming they even want to come here still)

tempestn 6y ago
Seems unlikely at the moment; the US seems very focused on doing the opposite.
- tim58 6y ago
  While it's true the trump administration is very anti immigrant at, it is also very anti ccp.
  - addicted 6y ago
    I don’t understand where people get that idea from. In practice nothing the US has done has hurt the CCP. If anything, it has strengthened them domestically. The major actions the Trump administration has taken against China are: 1) Tariffs which only served to hurt American farmers, considering there was hardly any drop off in Chinese exports to the US (and that’s on paper, since a lot of Chinese exports are now hidden as Vietnamese exports, etc) but significant drop offs in American exports to China. 2) A long sustained battle against 1 Chinese company. While Huawei is suffering, the likes of Xiaomi, etc are still doing just fine. 3) Whining about the nomenclature around SARS-COV-2. On the flip side, the administration dismantled TPP, which was a decade+ long effort spanning multiple US administrations, and nearly every non Chinese country on the Pacific, that would have actually dealt a huge blow to Chinese bullying by providing companies doing manufacturing in China much more attractive alternatives in the countries surrounding China.
    - lenkite 6y ago
      Xiaomi is only in end-user electronics and has nothing on infrastructure hardware - AFAIK it is not competing with US companies in deploying 5G hardware. I do not consider a +20% drop in Chinese exports to the US as "hardly any drop". Trump has put an end to e-packet which was killing US small-scale businesses: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump-changes-terminal-dues-and-epacket-rates/573337/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump... TPP was a nightmare opposed both by the left and right - and even by Hillary Clinton - at-least formally in her campaign. Only corporate shareholders supported it. It even pushed copyright terms further! See https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/whats-wrong-tpp https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/whats-wrong-tpp

Ericson2314 6y ago

I hope this doesn't get ugly when people try to actually leave. On the bright side, I wonder what good things this will do for the UK. I doubt many of these people will vote Torry.

rayiner 6y ago
Many immigrants who fled communism to come to the US remain strong Republican voters. Cubans are still registered Republicans 2:1. Even as of 2008, Vietnamese Americans were registered Republicans by a significant margin. Unlike Trump, Johnson has done a good job pulling in minority voters. About half the Indian MPs in the U.K. Parliament are Tories. Your comment is particularly inexplicable given that Labour just ran someone who wants to put a call for collectivizing property back in Labour’s platform.
- peteretep 6y ago
  Of the four “Great Offices of State”, two are held by people of South Asian heritage, as is the AG, and another Cabinet Member. Two of those people are also women. Got to imaging Sajid Javid will be back there soon. Three of those five families that went via the empire in Africa. Conspicuous absence of black people tho.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    I imagine Javid will battle it out with Sunak if the Tories decide Boris can't cut it against Keir
    - peteretep 6y ago
      I imagine Priti will throw her hat in the ring too, although God forbid it comes to pass. I think Sunak would be a strong choice, where Javid doesn’t have the charisma.
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  People are not leaving Hong Kong because of the Mainland's leftist economic policies. This isn't 1960s Mao-led China we are talking about. Cuban Floridians who came of age after the Cold War have very different politics. https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-cuban-american-poll-20190131-story.html https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-cuban-ameri... Vietnamese Americans: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/vietnamese-americans-are-no-longer-a-lock-for-the-republican-party/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/vietnamese-americans-ar...

Rapzid 6y ago

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China..

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kiba 6y ago
Mistake what? Risk a war with China?
throwaway2048 6y ago
Ultimately, the UK had absolutely zero chance at holding HK against the Chinese, HK was a tiny colony that could be seized basically instantly, and at the time decolonialization was still a global hotbutton issue. A few decades before negotiations began between China and the UK, India seized the Portuguese colony of Goa[1]. Nobody acted on behalf of the Portuguese. With the USA having just a few years beforehand suffered defeat in the Vietnam war, and extremely unlikely to have the public support for another land war in Asia, but this time against a vastly stronger opponent for a relatively much less important parcel of land, There is little reason to believe anyone would have, or could have seriously contested China seizing Hong Kong. Consider as well, during the Korean war, A China still badly crippled by World War 2 almost single handedly defeated an entire coalition of western powers, including a USA at the zenith of their conventional arms power. The declaration was an alternative to a military annexation of Hong Kong by the Chinese. The British probably acquiesced more than they had to, and didn't guarantee enough rights for Hong Kong citizens (especially the really lame part about not giving them a path to citizenship in the UK proper), but make no mistake, the alternative to the declaration wasn't Hong Kong remaining a part of the UK, it was Chinese invasion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Goa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Goa
- 6y ago

charliebrownau 6y ago

UK and West+EU hasnt got enough enrichment by the hands of anti whites using open borders + Diversity and multiculturalism to destroy white nations and western freedom Besides the mass hordes of ISLAMIC INVASION and BLACKS, now we need more asians that will vote for - wealth redistrubtion - GST/VAT - Welfare - Pandering to old people/disabled/women

Animats 6y ago

First Hong Kong, next Taiwan?

acdha 6y ago
That’s what I keep thinking: this is a dry-run sewing if they’ll get meaningful backlash from the next U.S. President.
- peteretep 6y ago
  Taiwan and Hong Kong couldn’t be more different though. Hong Kong legislature (heavily influenced by China) passed this law (edit: this turns out not to be true). Hong Kong is already part of China. You don’t have 200km of water to cross against a country that’s prepared for just that. There’s no TSMC. If it’s a dry run for Taiwan, it’s a really shitty one.
  - iliveinchina 6y ago
    This is factually incorrect. China's legislature amended Hong Kong's constitution to add the new national security law precisely because the Hong Kong legislature - even under heavy influence by mainland China - was unable to pass it.
    - peteretep 6y ago
      Sure. Regardless, legislative means were used, not force.
      - garmaine 6y ago
        Legislative means we’re not used. China had no legal authority to do what they did... but no one will stop them. You are correct to point out that force was not used (n/m the divisions of tanks that have been on the border), and Taiwan is different.
        6y ago

reaperducer 6y ago

It's worth noting that this article is 11 days old. A more recent dispatch would be more meaningful since things have happened since then.

DarthGhandi 6y ago
It's here for the daily HN China circlejerk, being dated doesn't matter in the slightest.

throwaway5575 6y ago

They should have just done it from the start, > Britain’s ‘disgraceful’ pre-handover efforts to deny nationality to Hongkongers revealed in declassified cabinet files > Officials repeatedly pressured Portugal not to grant rights to Macau residents to prevent Hongkongers from asking for similar treatment https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/2156385/britains-disgraceful-pre-handover-efforts-deny-nationality https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/2156385...

aswanson 6y ago

China is a horrific, authoritarian monster. I hope this century sees their vision checked and reduced back to the edges of humanity.

door99 6y ago
In the last 40 years, while China lifted a billion people out of poverty, what evil did they commit that is even remotely comparable to what the US did in, say, Iraq?
- rayiner 6y ago
  They lifted people out of poverty by ditching an economic system that kept those people in poverty for decades.
  - mcswell 6y ago
    I assume you're referring to ditching the communist system, right? which under Mao was responsible for 20-46 million deaths from starvation (that # is from wikipedia). Unfortunately, while they've ditched the economic part of communism, they've retained the dictatorial part, while moving towards the vision in 1984--a vision that seemed absurdly impractical when I read the book back in the 60s. But AI is now making it possible for the Chinese overloads to implement. Yeah, Xi double-plus good. And I'm sure Winnie will increase the chocolate ration next week.
    - AngryData 6y ago
      I fail to see how the "dictatorial part" by itself is communist. If you aren't economically communist, how can you be communist when communism is an economic system? It would be like claiming a country that got rid of investments and capital gains and private ownership of industry is still capitalist because it is a political republic, despite the fact that you can be capitalist under any political system.
- AlgorithmicTime 6y ago

tacocataco 6y ago

You would think China would be happy to have everyone just leave HK so it could fill it with its own people.

Chiba-City 6y ago

Americans are the most isolated, ahistorical and heavily propagandized humans on earth. Post-imperial Brits can't feed themselves. So says Brit philosopher John Gray, one of the architects of Thatcherism. I personally helped destroy the Apartheid govt South African govt, from Harvard, working for/with Unitarians, and met Desmond Tutu in the process. I fully expect horrifying and unspeakable Karmic retributions to befall the spawn of post-Imperial racist Brits and their pretenders. The Chinese enjoy a post-colonial unity we colonial peoples (who are not a people) cannot imagine, with more historical neighbors than any other country and a longer continuous written history than any other peoples. Americans suffer Stockholm Syndrome and widespread infantilism. Anticipate their exponential sufferings.

biscotti 6y ago
Looking at statistics the murder rate was 170 a year between 1948-1989 under the South Africa govt you helped bring down. Since 1994 that number is 24,206. The brutal “necklacing” method of execution itself was pioneered by Mandelas ANC. You may fault the 'racist' Brits, but they put an end to Shaka Zulus 500 mile genocide perimeter and they attempted to civilise many peoples whose languages lacked basic concepts such as time, future & present. It's telling that you use Trotskys perversion of language to slander them. Aided by infiltrators and agitators such as yourself, what came after didn't seem to value the virtues of honesty, tolerance and friendship between peoples the Brits were taught. Chinese culture regard higher those who use dishonesty to gain advantage. I will conceed though, it really was a great strategy the commies employed to exacerbate splits in the peoples, weaponise race then arm the pressure groups. Not only did it ensure governance became untenable, it also resulted in mass genocide including Mau Mau, Zanzibar and Ugandan genocides and the loss of any hope of the conservation of the majestic African fauna [1]. China now spoils and pillages Africa on a scale Rhodes would never have dreamt of. Although civilisation lost I guess for them, it was worth it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V355OG77SQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V355OG77SQM

Chiba-City 6y ago

Does anyone follow British domestic politics? They can't stand Polish (et al) immigrants amongst their numbers, much less browner skinned Indians and muslims. Brits are an increasingly irrelevant, racist, and post-Imperial bitter and reckless island nation (the size of Morocco) that can't feed itself. As an American citizen, I advocate a 2nd 1776, whereupon we set their miserable Brit "ship of state" adrift forever. Our future is better secured by a fully reciprocal "nationalism" that does not sanction racist jingoism. Consult John Mearsheimer for broader exposition of a fruitful and respectful reciprocal nationalism without pretenses to "universalism."

Renaud 6y ago
There are too many generalisations here to take any of your points seriously. Racism exists in all countries, not just Britain. It may be worse or better in Britain than elsewhere but it's certainly not alone. If your point is that the potential influx of HKers will create social tensions and feed into racism then I would agree, but that's not specific to the UK. Having 3M people suddenly popping up on your doorstep can be a challenge. However, while I hope that many HKers take on the opportunity to get a real British passport, I know most will do this as a backup plan. They will funnel their families and finances out of HK (to the benefit of the UK) but still live in HK for the most part. Most HKer know they can't just show-up in the UK and be successful there as they are in HK. Some will enjoy some opportunities and will manage to build or rebuild their success but most have their lives strongly anchored in the economic fabric of HK, and that's not easy to transpose elsewhere.
- Chiba-City 6y ago
  I lived in Ukraine under complete currency collapse. I hope for the collapse of the British pound. Make no mistake. I'm a Christian. "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." - Matthew 16:52. I pray for and celebrate the deaths of mercenary soldiers, drug addicts, drunk drivers, liars for money. I celebrate the deaths of imperial conquistadors and praise the lives of in situ historical peoples on their own lands. We're NOT a team. My passport remains intact. I have materially and forcefully and successfully contributed to the violent demise of South African apartheid "whites," at Harvard, and working for and with Unitarians. Know the frames of our dialog. I am a moralist. Play win-win, or lose.

Renaud 6y ago

Can someone correct the typo in the title?

supernova87a 6y ago

Not to make light of the offer (and I personally know people who may be affected), but why would someone from HK really want to move to the UK? Cold weather, mediocre food, expensive prices, expensive housing, and an economy and system on the verge of entering a highly destabilized period. That's an attractive offer?

0d311 6y ago
... compared to a authoritarian regime with literal concentration camps?
- supernova87a 6y ago
  That is not in HK, let's be clear with the facts. And neither is it an imminent possibility that people in HK are about to be subjected to that crime. Until China marches across the border.
Waterfall 6y ago
A market for improvement in food and you think china is doing good? China is a literal welfare state that relies on the east of China. Most intake wealth while the East actually generates it, the Pearl River Delta is also where most of the economic progress occurs.
easytiger 6y ago
> cold weather South of England, particularly London gets pretty low rainfall and decent weather temperatures > Mediocre food You don't know what you are talking about! > expensive prices Compared to what? > and an economy and system on the verge of entering a highly destabilized period. Yea HK definitely won't experience any of that
- mam2 6y ago
  You are delusional
  - 6y ago

dang 6y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23701333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23701333

Chiba-City 6y ago

Read George Friedman of STATFOR fame and fortune. Brits are in the trouble they deserve. Your affectations, restaurant reviews and completely fake "team seeking identities" are completely irrelevant. You [Ed. spelling] and what what armies? https://geopoliticalfutures.com/the-geopolitics-of-britain/ https://geopoliticalfutures.com/the-geopolitics-of-britain/

mstaoru 6y ago

I lived in China since 2008, and in between also in Hong Kong for a few years (2013-2014). Hongkongers are absolutely different people, and even if there is be a formal annexation by China, cultural assimilation will take a few generations of unrest at least. It was always a very different feeling stepping on the East Railway after crossing the border in Shenzhen. The phone alive with all the missed Gmail messages and Telegram chats. For me there is no Hong Kong anymore. There is Xianggang city, Guangdong province.

redis_mlc 6y ago

Likely China will close the HK borders and airports now to HK citizens, just like the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War. Communists and totalitarians can't tolerate the image of citizens bailing for greener pastures.